Can we all agree ancaps are the dumbest motherfuckers on earth and deserve to be made fun of?
>>75527913
Not an argument.
Mexicans get priority on that title, wetback.
>>75527986
Oh shit you got me dude, nice one
>>75527913
national socialism is a joke as well
>>75527913
Did an ancap deport you or something?
>>75527913
No, anarchist socialists are worse, because their system barely even makes any sense.
>>75527913
i hate mexicans
>>75527913
An-anything is pretty retarded OP.
Seeing ancaps argue with ancoms is like seeing 2 down-syndromes fistfighting.
>>75528188
did pedro diddle your butt or something?
you can talk about it anon, I'm all ears.
>>75527913
Agree, anything other than "more government" is retarded.
I mean, who the fuck would want to live in Somalia or in Mad Max? Edgy children, that's who
They're the broest anarchists except for primitivists.
>>75528198
ancaps are a bit dumber than ancoms tho
>>75528349
Did you Pedro?
>>75528362
>More Government
>Good
Stalinist Russia called.....
>>75528483
>stalinist russia
>modern western democracy
Choose one
>>75528461
Wow, a Marxist Mexican. It's a shit taco with shit salsa for added flavor.
>>75528041
your flag is a joke as well
>>75528461
>ancaps are a bit dumber than ancoms tho
Explain
>>75528604
Wow, an amerifat. No need to go further than that.
btw nice jumping to conclusions.
Fucking ancap kikes
I don't like Mexicans either
>>75527913
Would you have me shot?
>>75528838
Yes if he refused to pay his taxes like a lazy nigger
>>75527913
I don't feel that way
I feel that the socialist model of creating a large dependent class is much much stupider. As can be observed by your flag and the post that accompanies it.
>>75528838
I'd share some water with you anon.
>>75528461
Ancoms are dumber because they think their society is true anarchy while ancapism really is true anarchy. Anarchy in general is pretty dumb tho because it's basically just a reset button on the world and would never last.
>>75527913
How does society determine who owns natural resources? This is a crucial question. The mafia does, because ownership is determined based on the consensus of the society, and consent is forced by the party with more guns to everyone else. In other words, the state owns natural resources under the pretext of violence.
In order for the state to gain wealth, it must delegate and appropriate the natural resources to private parties in order to utilize it effectively through division of labor. What anarchists don't understand is that the state naturally emerges, in your hypothetical scenario it's the crazy water man.
Can anarchism prevail hypothetically? Of course, but this requires all individuals adhere to the NAP and preserve a kind of perfect morality and fairness in unison. In other words, it is not practical in the context of reality.
There must be a body of governance to create laws of the land and appropriate shared facilities that all individuals in the society have to follow whether they like it or not. This doesn't mean the government should really manage anything other than defense though. Everything that can be run should be entrusted to a private party which can bid for it and run it for profit.
dont reply to this ancom taco nigger
>>75527913
Other kind of anarchos are even worse.
>>75528734
Nice try Erasmo.
>>75528889
>American with ad-hominem attack about stupidity with basis on nationality
Always get a kick when you do that, considering Americans are considered the dumbest people
>>75528889
>socialist model of creating a large dependent class is much much stupider. As can be observed by your flag and the post that accompanies it.
Mexico is shit because it's full of shitskinned Mestizos not because of socialism.
If it was full of blonde Swedes it would be very rich and safe (even if they were all pussies)
>tfw u live in a democratic society and u just buy political power and u use politicians to make rules and regulations to protect ur and ur friends' own interests, but u make sure people blame the opposition for anything also controlling the media
>tfw u in a social democratic society and u just decide not to work at all and pretend to be stressed and unable to cope to get benefits as no one can actually prove if ur stressed and actually ur just a lazy piece of shit
>tfw u live in a socialist society and u just became the leader of the country, so u just install a planned economy and control prices of everyday wares, but just end up making a food, medicine and toilet paper shortage but its okay because at least people could afford it if it was here
>>75529009
you made me post this
>Dumbest people
>Generate the only discussions in /pol worth reading without retorting to degeneracy and other memes
>Most people in MENSA are libertarian
I think OP may just be too dumb to understand anarcho capitalism, needs some abstract thinking.
>>75529067
and this
Some individualist ancaps are retarded,but city state ancap is pretty interesting. Pick related Hoppe and Rothbard are pretty interesting reads.
>>75527913
Ancap is just polycentric law.
I've never seen any arguments on 4chan. It's just naive memes that presume ancap would be lawlessness or mad max scenario, which always makes it blatantly clear the (shit)poster had never read any mises.
>>75528940
Bu then who stops the private party from abusing their control over basic human needs or resources?
>>75528987
Nice outdated information
>>75529098
>polycentric """""""""""""""""""""""""""""law""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>>75527913
ay carramba, that's some poor reasoning skills, chico
>>75528461
What about libertarians?
>>75529133
Oh, you're 17th fattest country and we're 18th fattest country? still doesn't detract from you being fatter than us.
captcha: du deux aout
I'm pretty sure we already live in an anarcho-capitalist society.
What do people who call themselves "anarcho-capitalists" have to complain about?
>>75527913
They are autistic pieces of shit. I remembered one of this defending that should be legal let your childrens starved to death.
>>75529067
>>75529090
I never said we do more research or scientific advances, we don't; our government is stupid and doesn't want it.
But the overall consensus on the internet is that average americans are dumb, and based on the fact that you're attacking my intelligence somehow because of my nationality I drew attention to it.
>>75529134
> Implying pointing out the law of the jungle will always exist is somehow clever or an argument
Fucking nihilists.
Yes we can agree. Anarcho-anything is for thought experiments only
>>75529214
not according to this
http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/obesity.html
>>75529234
>I'm pretty sure we already live in an anarcho-capitalist society
>>75528803
>Mises, Friedman, and Rand
>ancaps
Rothbard was the only ancap in the pic
>>75527913
>Mexican intellectuals
>>75529264
Pablo do you charge by the square metre of yard or by the hour? My garden's looking pretty overgrown to be perfectly honest
>>75529098
Polycentric law is a meme though, it sounds cool and all but it actually makes no sense in practice.
>>75529133
>Bu then who stops the private party from abusing their control over basic human needs or resources?
The state, that's why you need one. It's like the abusive father that keeps the family unit fed and safe.
>>75529234
They pay taxes
there is a government
the government pays for things like infrastructure and the military
They think things like public roads somehow ruin society because they are autistic
>>75529264
No amount of government spending will help
Mestizos are retarded
Only the """""""white"""""" Mexicans are of any use and they are what? 10% of the population? Probably less.
>>75529275
>I want a society with no way to enforce laws
KEK
EKE
KEK
>>75528041
National socialism has been proven to work, its a coherent tested ideology.
>>75529352
Well there's those pedo degenerates from hollywood or the ultra rich people that can get away with anything.
>>75527913
>the worst possible outcome of anarchism is an insane person magically creating a state and using it to abuse people
hmmmm.... really makes you think
>>75529386
>Rothbard was the only ancap in the pic
And the least Jewish Jew in world history. Not that caslling someone "Jewish" is an argument in the first place.
>>75529397
Ask ahmed, he'll probably also do your wife's garden for no extra cost too
>>75529352
Nah m8.
What I was saying is that you are free to support any business you want, even if you call it "government".
>>75529456
This
A jewish that doesn't want to control other people's lives is a honorary white.
>>75529234
What the flying fuck
>>75527913
Ancap can't work in your shit low IQ, low trust nihilist marihuana infested shithole however realize that white people can have it because we are superior to you.
>>75529409
what prevents the state from being stacked by private parties?
>>75529449
Well, that'd set us back thousands of years.
>>75529449
No it's feudalism a far shittier system than what we have now
>>75529234
>I'm pretty sure we already live in an anarcho-capitalist society.
>>75529570
lmao, the funny thing is that faggots like these would be the first to get tricked like a retard and die in an ancap society.
Good luck though, ancapistan seems to be coming closer with every mudslime that arrives on your country.
>>75529484
Of course Juan, you are right. Why look for cheap labour abroad when I can get it home-grown?
>>75529438
>National socialism has been proven to work, its a coherent tested ideology.
Yeah bro and Franklin Roosevelt fixed the Great Depression! Let's draft everyone to dig holes and fill them back up, spend wildly and in an unsustainable fashion to artificially inflate GDP, and cut ourselves off from nearly all international trade so that we receive zero benefits from comparative advantages and selling products to others. Keynesianism is so easy lmao!
>>75529643
I can smell your soviet ancestry through the monitor.
>>75529672
I'm going to ask you nicely why AnCom is superior to AnCap
Go
>>75529580
The government is made up of private individuals, dumbass
>>75528461
Well to be honest the elderly should die if they're not preparing for the future, people should be allowed to sell their kids because if they have half a brain they'll want to ensure their kids have a shot, and starvation is fine because there will be the deserving poor vs undeserving when it comes to charity.
>>75529714
>If a capitalist doesn't like anarchy he is a communist
wat
>>75529696
shit retort
get back to the mosque already, stop shitting on the thread
>>75529656
Everyone is absolutely free to do whatever they want.
You may not like your options, but you're always free to choose from them.
You choose to complain about your problems instesd of solving them.
>>75529672
That moment when you realize that arguments are a trait only white people can present.
>>75529234
There's still a lot missing, but yeah, we do have an economic system that pushes pretty far towards anarcho-capitalism.
>>75529438
Man. you're about eight levels above the average retard...
> Boy, did thay third reich, only known national socialist society ever turn out well! Why it's still here today! It'll last a thousand years I tell you! No, I'm not delusional! What do you mean it's been gone for 71 years?!?
>>75529714
this will explain it
>>75529580
Democracy
>what stops..
a revolution (new state)
Also note that the state has an interest in keeping its people content because first of all it lives in that very society and it profits off of productivity.
>>75529831
>>75529716
It's not superior, both are dumb because they require people to somehow do away with every desire and have perfect morals.
But ancaps are dumb as fuck because of their unbreakable belief in the free market and how it solves everything.
>>75529840
For the most part what stops a revolution are the military and police who enforce stability and enact the will of "elected" dictators.
>>75529776
>he's trying this hard and getting btfo in his own half-arsed bait thread
Though seriously Juan, don't you have some subsistience farming to do or fences to jump?
>>75529837
you beat me to it
>>75529855
>>75529791
that moment you realize your shitty argument fell apart after two words and the only thing you have to shield yourself behind is the amount of menalin in your skin
>>75529238
There would be no legal.
If someone chose to kill their children their genes would die out and they'd be ostracized
>>75529818
*that
>>75529708
Keynesianism has yet to fail. Let that sink in.
>>75529818
Took the combined might of the entire world to stop the third reich. Either way, it being defeated militarily has no bearing on its internal policies.
>>75529931
>race
>melanin in your skin
kek
>>75530009
FDR and Hitler proved deficits don't matter
but cuckbertarians will never shut up about muh debt and muh inflation.
>>75529441
>>75529902
What kind of BTFOing did I go through? I thought you brits were good at that? You posted some shit reply about average wealth that had nothing to do with anything, and even poo in loos were quite close to superior white brits, kek.
Go slurp on muhammad's cock.
>>75529905
> Implying people only feed their children because of the law.
If it wasn't for the welfare & child support laws, women wouldn't be such disloyal whores.
>>75529498
>What I was saying is that you are free to support any business you want, even if you call it "government".
No. You dont choose to pay taxes
>>75530083
I mean, it's true that people with fuck you money can get away with anything, isn't it? Just look at the jews manipulating the media and forcing their ideals on the population.
How does pointing that out make me a commie?
>>75529855
WELL REGULATED MILITIA
>>75530139
But if you don't pay them you should start your work on your own schools and roads.
>>75530086
Interbreeding with natives and a taco-based diet has left you unable to follow a coherent thought through ay Carlos?
>lower gdp than Brazil
holy fucking kek
>>75527913
They honestly just hold libertarianism back
A limited confederation is the way to go if you honestly call yourself a libertarian
>>75529931
This is why we can tell the sex and the country of origin of the ancestors by just looking at the skeleton.
>>75529891
There are many corrupt governments, this is more of a biological/cultural issue of the population groups within the society.
>Keynesianism has yet to fail. Let that sink in.
Let's see, a decade of the great depression, 70s stagflation, and the negative interest rates desperation we are seeing this decade with a still weak economy.
>>75530080
>FDR and Hitler proved deficits don't matter
Deficits are just the decay of long-term growth in favor of short-term spending, it only puts a burden on the next generation to deal with
>>75530250
GDP per capita =/= GDP
>>75530080
>FDR and Hitler proved deficits don't matter
>People believe this unironically
No wonder /pol/ is a joke
>>75530139
Yes you do. You can choose not to, and in doing so you are subject to the choices others make.
You're basically just complaining that everybody is free to ignore your idealistic nonsense.
>>75527913
On the contrary, they are too smart for their own good.
They are like the autistic guy who can make incredibly complex computations in his head but doesn't understand basic social interactions.
>>75530267
God i cry every time i think that the USA would have stayed a constitutional republic and land of the free home of the brave if slavery didn't exist. Fuck you for importing the Africans, just so 1,2% of your privileged white male population could make a tiny bit more profit. WHAAAAAAAA
>>75528461
>>75528198
>>75527913
Ancoms and Libertarian Socialists are dumber.
>I want freedom
>BUT I ALSO WANT HANDOUTS
No.
>>75529881
Honestly, ancoms are dumber because they think communism can happen without a government. It's a obvious contradiction. "Well society would do xyz not the government". There would be leaders...
Ancaps, while a retarded notion, is at least not contradictory
>>75530080
Keynesian Economics does not work.
Just because you created some economic activity through government stimulants giving money for people to work in programs and what not. It doesn't not fix the problem that economic growth relied on the government.
There is no growth coming from the ground up its all coming from an outside source.
It does not fix the long term problem.
>>75530250
>muh economics
Yeah my country is not an economical powerhouse. boo hoo.
That doesn't make you any less of a mudslime cumslut.
Btw, how's that living cost? do you own any property? I do.
>>75528362
>I want more Government
Good goyim!
>>75530103
>people will act good in my autistic ancap fairy tale land so we won't need laws
do you have any real arguments?
>>75530323
>puts a burden on the next generation
Kek no
Deficits never have to be paid off and low level inflation is good for the economy because it promotes investment
Nah, leftist anarchists and nu-socialists are more retarded.
>>75530449
>Libertarian Socialists
Is that real?
Ancoms would be opposed to handouts btw
>>75530446
Well, it's not just because of slavery. It's because the north won.
>>75528362
Yeah sure give more money to a couple of politicians who just happen know how to handle your money more than you should.
>>75530620
Libertarian socialism is the original (pre ~1920s) definition of libertarian.
>>75530502
Keynesian economics always has and always will work
It's objectively the best system ever put forward.
There are no "long term" problems caused by government deficits, that's a myth made up by delusional gold bugs like Peter Schiff to con idiots (you)
>>75530638
That's the basis of democracies. You're meant to elect the people that know what they're doing and represent you.
>>75530323
Oh dear a bit of weak growth, the horror. Look at China, its keynesian as fuark and has huge growth.
Fact is free markets always lose vs nationalism, mercantilism and keynesian economcis. I can't think of a single succesful nation in history that had a total hands-off policy because its a shit tier weak growth economic model. Probably the only ones I can think of are old feudal kingdoms that didn't monitor trade and were too primitive to understand the advantages of national banking. You and your autistic libertarian economics have been proven wrong by the crucible of time.
>>75528461
can't believe I'm defending ancraps. No, ancoms are drastically dumber because communism is inherently about redistributing everything and anarchism is inherently about having no state apparatus.
Ancaps "merely" want a shitty feudalistic society.
>>75530818
We can't keep growing forever. Developed nations are starting to hit that wall. The refugee crisis is a direct result of it.
>>75530610
> implying "I have no faith in humanity" is an argument, and not a clear sign of low test beta faggotry
>>75530169
>I mean, it's true that people with fuck you money can get away with anything, isn't it?
No. And even if it was it wouldnt be ancap.
>>75530818
> I can't think of a single succesful nation in history that had a total hands-off policy...
Not an argument.
>>75530620
>Is that real?
http://thoughtsonliberty.com/what-is-libertarian-socialism
Apparently, and apparently they >>75530669 are the OG libertarians.
Which means shit, Alchemy used to be the OG Chemistry. Doesn't make it better.
>>75530866
In an ancom society money wouldn't exist so there would be nothing to redistribute. You're just expected to give away your work in exchange for others doing theirs.
>>75530227
Your point?
>>75530513
lmao who needs property when I can just live off the smell of third worlder butthurt?
You're a funny guy Juan, try not to get cartel'd.
>>75530446
I feel ya
>>75530892
>we don't need laws
>no one will ever do anything bad because it's my make believe fantasy world
>wahhh mommy where's my tendies
libertarians=autistic leftists
>>75530961
>Not an argument.
Hey Stefan, how is the weather up there?
>>75530419
But that isnt anacap. You are just missing the point entirely.
>>75530610
>do you have any real arguments?
He's right, the involuntaryism of the welfare state results in the state being women's sugar daddy. The welfare state and all of its coercive laws destroys the family unit. Most of the taxpayer money that gets sent to welfare doesn't even reach the recipients because of state incompetence, and many recipients abuse the system. We need to convert welfare back to a private charity system.
>Deficits never have to be paid off and low level inflation is good for the economy because it promotes investment
Deficits do have to be paid off eventually, or else people stop loaning you money or start taking your assets as compensation.
Inflation is just an increase in the money supply, and printing paper doesn't produce anything.
>>75530973
Would you be willing to build al your roads?
>>75530985
Seriously, if you're not going to contribute anything to the thread fuck off already island monkey.
>>75531079
>the involuntaryism of the welfare state results in the state being women's sugar daddy.
irrelevant to child welfare laws like "don't starve you children to death for fun"
>Deficits do have to be paid off eventually,
No they don't.
>printing paper doesn't produce anything
It increases demand which spurs the economy.
>>75530970
I didn't say "money" I said "everything," and in this case we of course mean goods etc. I say ancoms are more retarded because while all anarchism requires one level of borderline magical thinking (that the state will be dead and can never emerge again), that's all ancaps depend upon, while ancoms also require humanity to be reborn as an alien hive mind to function.
Of course its just as much magical thinking for those ancaps thinking it will be anything but hell on earth, but shitty neo-feudalism is 100% possible, unlike large scale communism without the government.
>>75530673
No "long term" problems caused by government deficits.
Have you recently looked at the current debt.
Do you understand how much interest has to be paid.
I don't think you understand the problems of holding massive amounts of debt and the ramifications of it.
>>75531079
>Deficits do have to be paid off eventually, or else people stop loaning you money or start taking your assets as compensation.
Nope, all you have to do is manage the interest payments. People buy T-bills to turn excess capital into more revenue.
>>75531011
People will do bad things whether there are laws or not and people will be punished for doing bad things whether there are laws or not.
>>75531038
No, anon, you're missing the point.
Everyone is free to do whatever they want.
And they are free to dismiss you.
>b..b...but that's not anarcho-capitalism.
But it is anarchy. 'Government' is a meme.
>>75531194
Think of it like tribalism, you don't really need a hive mind to achieve it, you just need everyone to be impossibly dutiful and moral.
>>75531224
>Have you recently looked at the current debt.
>wahhh muh debt
the US government controls the money supply
The dollar is worth whatever they want it to be worth and they can pay off the entire debt whenever they want to
now go play with your shiny rocks, goldbug
>>75531277
but the laws "stop" them from doing things because there are consequences
If it was legal to say, rape women I guarantee there would be far more Elliot Rodgers out there doing it.
That's just common sense that autistic ancaps don't understand.
>>75530818
So you handwaved my arguments. No one is going to loan you money if you aren't going to pay it back. Spending your resources instead of investing them will cripple long-term growth. Printing money doesn't produce any wealth. Free trade means giving other countries your currency which they have to spend on you in some way, in other words it necessitates trade the other way. These are analytically true propositions. All of your policies defy these laws and are short-sighted in nature, like experiencing the high from the drug and claiming it's a great idea.
>>75531312
Also I want to add though that by attacking the incompetence of the present US government is not a very real attack on interventionist economic models. The US has gone full retard for reasons beyond economics.
>>75531483
The current US FED economic policy is to destroy our own economy and give handouts to wall street
hmm I wonder who could be behind this.....
>>75531367
There is no law against smelling like shit but if you do people will punish you by ostracizing you. People dislike rapists much more than people who smell bad and I guarantee they won't stand idly by and let people go out and rape as much as they like.
Do you think the police officers and others in the military who go out and risk their lives do it to serve the government or do they do it to serve the people? If the government were to disappear would these people no longer be interested in protecting the people around them?
>>75531084
There are pay to use roads.You dont need taxes to pay build roads,in fact the first roads werent build with taxes.
>>75531670
If nobody paid them you can be sure as hell many of them will stop doing their duty, and eventually all of them once they realise they need money to sustain themselves.
>>75531150
>irrelevant to child welfare laws like "don't starve you children to death for fun"
You're downplaying the involuntaryism of the state's facilities such as welfare and socialized health care.
>It increases demand which spurs the economy.
Printing money devalues the dollars people currently have. It's equivalent to stealing people's wealth and giving it back to them to "spur demand", so it doesn't work. The freshly printed money goes to bailed out banks at negative interest rates (lucky you if you are in the bank business you get paid for taking printed money at the expense of eveyrone else), but still no one wants to invest in the economy.
>>75531235
>Nope, all you have to do is manage the interest payments.
Exactly my point, there is a certain point where you have to pay off the deficit or the interest payments become too much to fight off.
>>75531312
Your concept of economic growth is like taking a loan from a bank to spend money and then trying to get out of the situation by spending more money with more loans.
You will eventually run into problems.
All of that spending is comes from an outside source that has no substance for growth.
You just mess around with market signals.
Its impossible to track and plan all economic activity without going through malinvestment towards these projects.
Keynesian is a joke.
>>75531763
So you'd be ok with basically all roads being "pay to use"? And their owners not being obligated to maintain them?
>>75531284
>But it is anarchy. 'Government' is a meme
No its not. The goverment has authority and can jail you,however they want. The goverment not controlling everything doesnt make an anarchy
>>75531768
Why wouldn't they get paid?
>>75528041
>>75531830
Assuming the government disappeared, they'd stop getting paid.
They could get hired by a private party too of course, but then that private party would be free to use the now PMC to do whatever they want.
>>75531818
It is an alternative. Thera could even be kind of insurance companies that allows you to use a set of roads. There are alternatives to central goverment,and institutions like the church prove it.
>>75531820
>The goverment has authority
Who gives them this authority?
>>75531670
>People dislike rapists much more than people who smell bad and I guarantee they won't stand idly by and let people go out and rape as much as they like.
That's why we have a government and a court system to punish rapists
thank you for arguing for a government.
> If the government were to disappear would these people no longer be interested in protecting the people around them?
They would have no legal authority
They wouldn't even have a court system.
Technically property wouldn't exist beyond what you claim to be yours without a government and there would be no law and order.
Really roving gangs would just go around claiming property until a few small groups of people owned everything and we were back in feudalism and oligarchy.
congrats libertarian dipshit you just set us back 1000 years.
>>75531778
all banks do is create money out of nothing to begin with, dumbass
So yes all money is "ephemeral"
Real money isn't your precious little shiny rock and I know that bugs you.
>Keynesian is a joke.
ancaps are a joke and always will be.
>>75531955
And who's to stop those companies from abusing their presumed monopolies on roads?
If there's only 2 roads to get from point A to B, and both are owned by such company, why wouldn't they exploit that to maximise profits at the expense of everyone else?
>>75531474
You're an amateur. I can tell because you think debt is about being paid back. This is a very plebian way to think about national economics. The main reason entities buy treasury bonds is not about making their money back+interest, there are far better investments if you want high returns. The main purpose of buying bonds is because its an insanely reliable way to secure your wealth. As long as the government stands, your money is safe. This has immense benefits to the state and the individual. As long as the state remains stable and well governed, the debt can keep piling up forever really, its just an arbitrary number, (of course interest payments are paid). This means you need to grow the economy however to keep up, which takes good government.
That being said, I admit your way of economics is more stable and sustainable. We just differ I think in a vision of humanity. I think we should race to the future as fast and hard as possible, damn the risks.
>>75528938
>implying that it needs to last
>implying that getting rid of outdated government models is not a good thing
Why are you such a cuck, senpai?
>>75528940
You need to study some philosophy, a person holding enough power to provide all the services that the State now provides and demand taxation is not the same thing as having a State.
>>75529024
>not understanding how wealth is created
Is this real life?
>>75529088
NEETs don't want to lose their special powers.
>>75532137
>That being said, I admit your way of economics is more stable and sustainable.
There's nothing sustainable about libertarian's neoliberal bullshit. They are the reason the US is in this mess in the first place.
Keynes promotes economic growth and production. Austrian retards promote deflation, austerity, and poverty.
They think destroying the economy will fix it.
>>75531937
Various people in the community can come together and form a militia. Why wouldn't that community see to it that the militia is well funded? In addition to that, individuals can arm and protect themselves.
>>75532067
>That's why we have a government and a court system to punish rapists
Rapists can only be punished if there is a government?
>They would have no legal authority
They would have as much authority as the ones around them let them have.
>They wouldn't even have a court system.
Why not?
>Really roving gangs would just go around claiming property until a few small groups of people owned everything and we were back in feudalism and oligarchy.
Nice fan fiction. You should check out this guy named Karl Marx. He makes some pretty wild fan fiction, too.
>>75531968
Force.
>>75532396
>Rapists can only be punished if there is a government?
with any legal authority
I guess you believe in random vigilantes because you're an autist who LARPS about being the lone ranger.
>They would have as much authority as the ones around them let them have.
so none at all
>Why not?
nothing resembling civilization would exist without a government so no courts by default.
>You should check out this guy named Karl Marx
Not as dumb as your ancap fan fiction
See the thing is humans already lived without a government for millennia.
It wasn't so great.
>>75532067
>That's why we have a government and a court system to punish rapists
Which is inefficient.
>They would have no legal authority
>They wouldn't even have a court system.
Both are legitimized by the people and can be privatized.
>Really roving gangs would just go around claiming property until a few small groups of people owned everything and we were back in feudalism and oligarchy
You are pretending that forming small armies, composed of psychopaths, is easier and cheaper than working and trading.
You are wrong.
>all banks do is create money out of nothing to begin with, dumbass
Just because you are a cuck with a central bank and no education, don't mean that the whole world is like this.
>>75532420
Which is granted by wealth. Which is granted by the people.
>>75532396
And now you have a feudal society. Said community would need some kind of central organ to keep the militia organized, woudln't it? Congratulations, you now have a government.
Or you can keep your militia/community unorganized, and risk getting attacked by a bigger, more organized militia that decided your community's property would be the perfect space to make a giant statue of a cock and balls. Or that they want to kill you for shits and giggles.
>>75532420
How does one afford a monopoly on violent force if noone wants to invest in it?
I know whst you're saying and all, but if you could fight ignorance with reason, people wouldn't try to fight it with legislature.
Everyone is absolutely free to invest in whatever business or service they want. It doesn't stop being a service just because there's noone there to stop them from robbing you.
Ansrchy isn't going to prevent tyrrany.
>>75532526
>privatizing the courts
KEK
E
K
libertarians are so autistic they see no problems with this
Not that it really matters in the end since literally nothing about modernity would work without a government.
You'd have a few landowners who run everything and everyone else gets to be a serf
enjoy your feudalism, peasant.
>>75532381
I was just trying to throw the austrians a bone man becayse they are right about the endless growth "problem". In my mind that would had been solved if the third reich won and we would expand into space rather than being confined on a kike run planet of diminishing resources and overpopulated with subhumans but I digress,,,
If humanity goes down the dark path it seems it may then their type of "economics" will reign supreme out of sheer necessity.
>>75532641
Those great arguments that you are throwing around really make your double digit IQ shine, senpai.
>>75532076
Insurance,I told you that. If your service is just to expensive,insurance companies wont hire your services and cut you from lots of potential services
>>75530009
> being defeated militarily has no bearing on its internal policies
How can a war economy work without war?
Also, you do know that Nazi Germany was supported by the U.S. and a lot of factions before and even during the war?
>>75532067
You're ignoring the fact that none of the growth has any substance and you aren't really solving anything.
While at it why don't you give 4/5ths of your income to the government so they can generate more growth through welfare checks so Tyrone spend it all on what ever he wants.
Just so you can see your lovely charts on how government creates growth.
The point is that money you have could have been spent on something else that could have been worth while for actual growth.
That money could have been used for investments that could have been worthwhile.
Your opportunity cost is beyond cucked in that regard.
Might as well give all of your money to a couple of money grubbing assholes who think they know how to spend it better than you. Keep in mind most of these people have no regard for you and only aim to stay in power.
>>75529438
It worked well at declaring war against everybody and losing.
>>75532619
>How does one afford a monopoly on violent force if noone wants to invest in it?
By taking other people things. When you are the strongest force around, you don't have to ask others for permission.
All you will achieve by suppressing the state is to make the strongest group even more coercive.
>>75532076
That's why you need a state (a monopoly voted through democracy) to delegate the road to a private party which can run it for the least cost for a duration of time. Since roads require so much land, they are anti-competitive by nature, similar to natural resources, and so a coercive entity needs to appropriate it effectively.
>>75532137
>the debt can keep piling up forever really, its just an arbitrary number
No, it's not, debt is slavery and you should know about this since you are so nationalist. You can't keep sustaining debt since interest payments will be eventually too difficult to fight off, and no it's not the evil joos, it's because of your recklessness in spending. Don't promise to pay someone back money if you aren't going to do so. You lose all credit and trust.
>We just differ I think in a vision of humanity
It's not a matter of subjective vision, you legitimately don't understand fundamental laws of economics which is why you are making critical errors in your reasoning.
>>75532308
>You need to study some philosophy, a person holding enough power to provide all the services that the State now provides and demand taxation is not the same thing as having a State.
What did he mean by this?
>>75532381
You only need to look at the Great Depression lasting for over a decade to see the results of policies of centralized planning. There you will see real deflation and poverty.
>They think destroying the economy will fix it.
This is exactly what you think! Eating your seed crop isn't sustainable! It's nigger-tier.
I used to be an an-cap, but after studying economics beyond Rothbard, Mises, Hayek, Kirzner, et al. I'm now a post-Keynesian. I'm still sympathetic to ancapism, though. Keynesianism, however, is the true redpill.
Unfortunately a lot of Austrian economists tend to misconstrue his writing.
>>75532780
>you don't have to ask others for permission.
That sounds extraordinarily like anarchy, senpai.
>>75527913
Yes. As some one who finds most political ideologies mind numbingly retarded, ancap is by far the most retarded and it's adherents are the most insufferable, spooked autists on the internet. Luckily their politics is confined there.
>>75532743
And then comes along insurance company B who doesn't give a shit and goes along with your sociopathic system. Now what?
Or insurance company A gets out bought by a competitor and decides to betray you and leave you.
Or a fucking army of robot pedophiles with guns and tanks appears and kills you since nobody is warranting your safety and you're essentially living in an artificial wild west.
>>75532900
Not an Argument.
>>75532706
>the retard that thinks abolishing government is a good idea tries to insult other people's intelligence
classic
>>75532767
>none of the growth has any substance
>sure we built all this shit b-b-ut htere's no substance
you know other than the people producing and consuming shit you need to live
>While at it why don't you give 4/5ths of your income to the government so they can generate more growth through welfare checks so Tyrone
The government doesn't "need" money to create money, genius. T Hey print it out of nothing
>The point is that money you have could have been spent on something else that could have been worth while for actual growth.
Which is why the government should run a deficit instead of paying off the debt
>Might as well give all of your money to a couple of money grubbing assholes who think they know how to spend it better than you
You have no idea what you're talking about.
The government needs to act counter cyclically to combat recessions.
>>75532801
>Great Depression lasting for over a decade to see the results of policies of centralized planning.
The Great Depression was caused by lack of demand in the economy which was caused by lack of government regulation on wall street that caused a bubble
the solution was massive government spending during WW2.
As usual Keynes is right and goldbugs are wrong.
>>75532381
>Keynes promotes economic growth and production.
It is not like purchasing power has just plumbed when Keynes ideas were introduced
>>75532932
There is nothing to argue. I was agreeing with op. I am not going to rehash my objections here, I am circlejerking over my commonly held hatred.
>>75532601
>And now you have a feudal society
Feudalism was based. Why do people shit on it. You have a coercive state which serves its purpose of defense and allocates land for peasants to work on efficiently. Without feudalism at the time, your society would be overrun by barbarians who will loot all your shit and you are even poorer than before, maybe even just dead or cucked by some barbarian.
>>75532780
And how do you expect to become the strongest force without taxpayers footing the bill?
You are ignoring that, in 2016, trade is cheaper than war.
>>75532801
The main problem with the State is that it is an institution with no accountability and with no incentive to provide the most efficient solutions to the people.
>>75532871
The current governments must fall, we should debate what comes after.
>>75532935
>don't understand money
>don't understand recessions
>don't understand 1929
>hurr durr u retard
Classic.
>>75532515
>nothing resembling civilization would exist without a government so no courts by default.
O, great government, the almighty caretaker of morality and civilization! I give my praise to thee! Were it not for you grace, o wise government, brotherhood, wealth, inventions, husbandry, science, and cooperation between people would be nonexistent! We are devoid of any principle or initiative without thy great wisdom, almighty government! I bow my head to thee.
Amen.
>>75533031
Fair enough but then just be honest and become a monarchist or feudalist?
>>75532990
>wahhhh muh inflation
this is embarrassing
You realize your wages go up with prices right? If you invest (which inflation is supposed to promote) it means literally nothing.
>>75533048
>ancap
>understanding "anything"
>>75533054
>governments prove to be more successful than any other form of human organization in history
>hurr this sucks lets go back to being primitive tribals that was way better
ancaps in a nutshell.
>>75532935
JUST KEEP ON PRINTING GUYS
I'M SURE THERE WILL BE NO PROBLEMS.
You have no concept of how money works.
>>75533031
>efficiently
You need to study what that concept actually means...
>>75533031
>Feudalism was based. Why do people shit on it.
Probably, if you're a king or a feudal lord, and even then you run the risk of getting murdered.
And you would be a peasent considering you're shitposting at 4am on a taiwanese finger painting website.
>>75532601
>Said community would need some kind of central organ to keep the militia organized, woudln't it?
No.
>>75532619
>How does one afford a monopoly on violent force if noone wants to invest in it?
With more force
>>75533162
I noticed you didn't post any arguments.
>>75533054
>history is full of examples of brotherhood, wealth, inventions, husbandry, science, and cooperation between people living under a government
>history is devoid of examples of brotherhood, wealth, inventions, husbandry, science, and cooperation between people living without a government
m-maybe if I shitpost harder nobody will notice that my argument is actually one that speaks against my case
>>75533262
The government isn't responsible for any of those things, though.
>>75533186
Then how would the militia ever get anything done without organisation?
>>75533189
K.
So what laws do you intend to introduce to keep tyrranical mobs from fotming and terrorizing the people like current governments do?
Or are you just pretending to be an idealistic moron?
>>75533165
>hyperinflation
>caused by printing
That's a myth
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-hyperinflation-hype-why-the-us-can-never-be-weimar/254715/
>>75533242
ancaps are prone to calling every time they get BTFO "not an argument"
>>75533165
Weimar didn't fail because it printed too much money pleb. It failed because it was an unstable puppet state which owed insane debts to foreign powers because of a war it just lost so absolutely no one was willing to invest in germany.
>>75533304
lmao
>>75533338
>governments prove to be more successful than any other form of human organization in history
>hurr this sucks lets go back to being primitive tribals that was way better
Woah, man! Amazing argument! Your ability to reason is simply astounding!
>>75533357
Which politicians are responsible for those things?
>>75532935
>The Great Depression was caused by lack of demand in the economy which was caused by lack of government regulation on wall street that caused a bubble
Ugh, people still believe this public school indoctrination narrative meme. It was caused by easy credit policies of central banking in the 1920s. Malinvestment eventually occurred when people realized their projects were not profitable, and so they had to be cut.
How can you actually believe it's because people stopped demanding things? Do you even understand that money is a closed loop, if money isn't getting spent it is getting invested because interest rates go down in a free market. Money doesn't just disappear. When an easy credit policy is implemented by the central bank, people recklessly invest in projects that are fruitless and a deflationary recession occurs after, analogous to a high when consuming a drug and then a low.
>the solution was massive government spending during WW2.
No, that's what they told you, but throughout the 30s massive government intervention killed the free market and made it impossible for a recovery for 10+ years. After WWII, the government actually cut taxes and let the economy grow again.
>As usual Keynes is right and goldbugs are wrong.
Keynes was the guy who lost all his money in the crash because he was naive, and the Austrians were the guys who predicted the crash like to the exact month because of reckless easy credit policies of centralized banking and left the U.S. before it occurred.
>>75533382
Well you might think it's a good idea to live in a shitty tribal society with no government or organization or law or order, but I don't.
>>75533304
Insofar as it established conditions that made all these things (sans cooperation) possible it is responsible for it.
And cooperation on a scale of more than a single family or half a dozen strangers is always going to take the form of a government, i.e. a central, highest authority
>>75533438
Yeah, people would simply go mad if it weren't for the almighty government. In fact, I was just about to go on a murder spree but the fact that there is a government kept me from going over the edge.
>>75533422
Directly? none.
Indirectly? More than 70%.
Remember how most of the scientific research of the last century was for military use, which means it was funded by governments.
>>75533445
If you think every single organization is a government then ok.
>>75529643
Feudalism is not that bad though. At least better than "civil" central state.
The fact it was there at a time of windmills and plagues really makes people assimilate it to backwardness.
Besides there is little in common between libertarianism and feudalism, it's really a cheap feelings association.
Your image speaks for itself, that you can't make the difference between property and the power of the state.
>>75533242
He can't, his brain is already operating at maximum power.
>>75533189
You need religion, patriotism, an invader or wealth to create an army.
And while we are on that subject, I am sure that a true free market would be really great at executing kebabs.
>>75533357
You are failing to understand that governments, as we know them, are obsolete. But that does not mean that they had no role in history - but just as you won't let a witch shaman treat your wounds, you should realize that there are better ways of pooling resources for common goals.
>>75533529
>Remember how most of the scientific research of the last century was for military use
Lacks sources.
>>75532903
>And then comes along insurance company B who doesn't give a shit and goes along with your sociopathic system. Now what?
Choose another one. If insuarances are too expenisve profit wont be maximized
>Or insurance company A gets out bought by a competitor and decides to betray you and leave you.
There would be more than one,and it would be a very lucrative field.
>Or a fucking army of robot pedophiles with guns and tanks appears and kills you since nobody is warranting your safety and you're essentially living in an artificial wild west.
Private security. In places like Johanesbourg if it wasnt for them it would be a total chaos. The goverment also fails in the protection department quite often
>>75533504
Good thing literally everyone is like you then.
Shit we don't even need policemen right now, people do not go on murder sprees ever.
>>75533504
Ted Kaczynski went and did that, in fact, with a goal of getting it out there that people are cowards and bootlickers.
Do you know what he is infamous for?
>>75533564
Feudalism is leagues better than libertarianism because there's a source of authority in feudalism.
>>75533162
That was purchasing power,not inflation. Purchasing power has dropped. Right now people need 30 year mortages to pay for everything.
>>75533587
>Do you know what he is infamous for?
For being a raving anarchistic subhuman lunatic.
>>75533622
>authority is great as our leaders always do what's best for us
this was funny the first ten thousand times but humanity needs a new running joke
This thread
Amount of arguments made: 0
Did you get spanked as a child?
>>75530009
> Keynesianism has yet to fail
... Except it has... Numerous times in fact...
>>75533583
Yeah, if it weren't for the police, I would have just infinitely murdered everyone and no one would have ever thought to stop me.
>>75533587
>Do you know what he is infamous for?
Getting his sanity taken by the CIA?
>>75533048
>The main problem with the State is that it is an institution with no accountability and with no incentive to provide the most efficient solutions to the people.
Then what is your alternative on roads? Let people build roads anywhere they want? Let them monopolize and charge you ridiculous tolls? The reality is natural resources and land are physical things, they are scarce and anti-competitive by nature, so you need a form of governance to oversee it. It's not perfect, it's optimal.
>>75533081
>>75533178
I believe in a system of checks and balances, just because feudalism worked at the time, doesn't mean it's optimal for our current year. We aren't an agricultural society so land for farming doesn't need to appropriated. We technically still have remnants of feudalism because it makes things function in the real world. Problem with most people is they apply the context of centuries ago with now and recklessly suppose they are the same contexts.
>>75533435
>Malinvestment
That's a bullshit meaningless Austrian phrase
In reality banks went into debt speculating which led to a bubble that popped and crashed the economy.
Thanks to Glass Steagall that didn't happen again *until Glass Steagall was repealed by "free marketers")
>if money isn't getting spent it is getting invested
>How can you actually believe it's because people stopped demanding things?
They stop being able to buy things once they are in too much debt and don't have a job genius
>Do you even understand that money is a closed loop,
No
money can be created and destroyed. Banks create money and destroy it so does the FED.
>if money isn't getting spent it is getting invested
Or the banks just sit on it like they do today because there is no demand in the economy
>When an easy credit policy is implemented by the central bank, people recklessly invest in projects that are fruitless and a deflationary recession occurs after,
No they waste it on asset and financial speculation and debt leverageing idiot, more like casino gambling
there is nothing "invested" beyond what you "invest" in the slot machines at a casino
>throughout the 30s massive government intervention killed the free market
kek
the govenrment interevened far too little to have any impact
when it did (ww2) it saved the economy
>Keynes was the guy who lost all his money in the crash because he was naive, and the Austrians were the guys who predicted the crash
AHAHAH are you like 12 years old? Who told you any of this nonsense?
>>75533671
>one person makes bad decisions
>therefor, lets let ALL THE PEOPLE be in charge of bad decisions
With authority, you have the ability to proactively attempt to make your leaders competent.
With "liberty"(tm) you have to take everyone as is, slightly below average shitstains on civilization and all.
>>75533671
You must realize that some people were born to be cucks. Their purpose is to be exploited and abused by their betters, since, when presented with the option between freedom and slavery, they will always chose the later.
The jews might be into something.
>>75533536
Only the organization that can tell all others what to do and what not to.
The highest, unappealable authority.
Tempted to read all these replies and go down the rabbit hole of this thread but it seems way too long.
Are any worthwhile arguments made for and against ancap/libertarianism or whatever?
>>75533631
you have no idea what you're talking about
that "is" inflation
wages and prices go up at the same time
Real Estate prices have far outpaced inflation in wages and prices though due to cheap credit which has nothing to do with inflation.
>>75529134
>sternerposting
>>75533309
With force, but you dont need a goverment with that. Things like mercenaries or volunteers have always existed
>>75533660
Indeed.
People are terrified of the fact that everyone is absolutely free to do whatever they want.
Legislature provides them with the peace of mind that they aren't.
Turns out they are just wasting their money when raving anarchistic subhuman lunatics can just roam around killing people just to get their stupid essay published in the newspaper.
>>75533564
then go live as a serf
>>75533504
there would be less of a disincentive to without law and order.
>>75533622
Whoa top notch argument, I'm Bourbon now
>>75533831
>there would be less of a disincentive to without law and order.
Provide your reasoning.
>>75533582
So now you as end user need to hire Insurance company A, F, G-H and W becuse they're the only ones that have decided not to fuck you over yet there's not a single one that manages to cover all your needs. But hey, choice is great, isn't it?
>Private security
And who's stopping the private security from getting outbid by your enemies and betray you?
>>75533577
Considering the most part of the last century consist of war time, it's not hard to see. We got to the mean with technology meant to be used on the german V-2 rocket. We went from biplanes to jets in 6 years thanks to WWII. Computers are a development of Turing's work, which was meant to be used for military purposes.
>>75533800
It's literally impossible to make a worthwhile argument in favor of ancap.
>>75533820
what's the difference between government force and private force, besides semantics?
>>75533338
At this point you are saying its okay for an economy to have a GDP-Debt Ratio of over 10000%.
Whose gonna want to invest in any bonds if you aren't getting any money back or hardly any.
I'm sure as hell there will be another currency that would take its place for the Dollar if the credit rating of its sole proprietor is down to complete shit.
No one will want to invest in the United States or take investments from the United States seriously at that point.
Its like having a firm with large amounts of debt and shit credit.
No one will be interested in investing from said firm if their credit rating is that awful.
Some other currency would immediately take its place afterward replacing the United States dollar if things get that bad.
>>75527913
The Ancaps in your country are wealthier than your government.
Too bad they have a thing for cutting off people's heads.
>Mexican intellectuals
>>75533883
>40 posts by this ID
dayum. I like freedom but some people are too stupid to be left free. Rather take my chances with a government I can lynch than to have the streets we honour veterans on be desecrated by faggots.
Regarding economics, not sure but free market is good, but not the be-all and end-all, needs some assistance. Again, not informed about that aspect, open to arguments.
>>75527913
t. mexican intellectual
>>75533876
Law and Order are proactive (on paper) measures to prevent, mitigate, and punish crime, whether it be violent or not, in the interest of civility and social and economic stability and peace of mind.
Everything else, the entirety of the NAP and that which follows from it, is reactive in nature. There is no one actively attempting to prevent you from going on a shooting spree, or ready to stop you the second it happens, only those people who are ready to defend themselves and react when it does happen.
>>75529905
>muh chillin's
Not an argument.
>>75529714
>soviet
You misspelled Jewish
>>75533876
My neighbour is a fucking asshole and I want to beat him up. I do not do it because it's illegal.
If there's no government I'm free to do it and I could even kill him and nobody will care since society is now a free for all.
>but I'm not a bad persona and don't want to kill my neighbor!!1!
Good for you!!
Unfortunately, not everyone has such a strong sense of morality and justice.
>>75533876
If you do something bad in a system with a government you get punished
if you do bad in a system with anarchy nothing happens
well technically no order or system would exist since society would just immediately collapse anyway.
>>75533892
> okay for an economy to have a GDP-Debt Ratio of over 10000%.
No you'd limit it to the productive capacity of the country is
I can tell you didn't read that article
>Whose gonna want to invest in any bonds
The government doesn't need money from bonds to operate. Technically it doesn't even "need" taxes to operate.
>>75533997
>Not an argument.
Not an argument.
>>75533767
This is the true.
Most people are cucks. They are the kind that willfully surrender all their strength (like having their own weapons and forming their local militia) and then complain that they need big brother to protect them.
The argument is already flimsy when talking about murderers, but it gets into sadomasochism when talking about the myriads of millions of regulations of every single action in your business and industry. Because muh protection.
