http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Surprise-Surprise-Brazil-Coup-Govt-to-Impose-Austerity-20160521-0009.html
Good job faggots you are now Greece 2.0
>coup
You should stop getting your news from the leftie media.
>>74815163
>telesur
>>74815163
>coup
Its not a coup if 60% of the population supports it.
>austerity
Nice name for "leftist goverment broke the country and now some less retarded government tries to fix it up"
>>74815163
>doing something expressly written on the constituition
>coup
literally commit suicide.
>>74816048
Coup have nothing to do with popularity.
Many coups have total aprovation of population.
>hundreds of millions dead from marxism
>suffering on an unimaginable scale from marxism
>hey guys let's try marxism
I wish the article told me who it was written by so I could greentext their last name and say /pol/ was right again.
You guys think maybe they're catching on to that?
>>74816048
>Its not a coup if 60% of the population supports it.
Last time I checked democracies needed elections
Otherwise yeah it's a coup.
>>74816181
>not even found guilty of anything yet
>no trial
>>74816442
>Marxism
where do you get this shit?
And Petrobras has been state owned for decades now it's nothing new.
>>74816604
>Implying coups are inherently bad
>>74816669
Which is why she isn't impeached yet, just suspended. The trial will be in a few months in the senate.
>>74816601
>implying Temer isn't the jew candidate
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/americas/brazil-michel-temer/
>>74816746
they are when it's a pro globalist/austerity coup
>>74815762
>Argentina in charge of being smart
>>74816734
>t. indoctrinated librul
It's fucking Marxism.
>>74816181
They were grasping at straws trying to find anything to get her and the army pretty much renounced loyalty to the executive
>>74816837
I would take 10 right-wing male jews over a marxist woman.
>>74816734
>Petrobras has been state owned for decades now it's nothing new.
Perhaps that's why they have a debt of like a trillion dollars.
>>74816877
Petrobras was state owned under the dictatorship
How in the fuck is that Marxism?
>>74816934
Well why can't you have an actual right wing instead of a shitty globalist one then?
The options should be between a Marxist woman and turning into Greece.
>>74817032
Or it's because China has stopped paying for imports which is why even DUDE WEED land is tanking.
>>74816934
jews are marxists idiot
>>74817131
*The options shouldn't be
>>74817131
>The options should be between a Marxist woman and turning into Greece.
No, the options are turning into Greece or turning into Venezuela.
>>74817131
This is just part of the problem, the other part is corruption and bad administration. There are a lot of private owned oil companies out there that are not tanking this hard.
>>74815163
>Good job faggots you are now Greece 2.0
Sounds harsh. I bet they'll be lining up the whole day for essential goods (which aren't even available) with bags of increasingly worthless cash, then going home in the dark (due to increasing blackouts) hoping you won't be raped and murdered on your way home.
Should have stayed on the path to True Socialism, Brazilbros.
>>74817335
>the options are turning into Greece or turning into Venezuela.
I meant that "shouldn't" be the only two options
>>74817335
I'm sure it was always corrupt
but you only notice corruption during downturns, same with wall street.
>>74815762
This
>>74817537
>there are two options either communism or austerity
false dichotomy
>>74816882
Our impeachment basically automatically occurs whenever the president has support of less than 1/3 of both houses. Anyone in the population can submit the request over basically any administrative violation. The worker's party submitted impeachment accusations to every president since the redemocratization except obviously theirs.
The last impeached president got that thanks to buying a personal use car (and just a fiat elba) with a ghost account related to his campaign treasurer. Not even a fraction of the recent scandal from the worker's party and he was considered not guilty by the supreme court after leaving presidency.
>>74815163
>telesur
>coup
Weak bait.
>>74815163
>Telesur
Yeah, kill yourself.
>>74817622
It will be a soft austerity anyway since acting president Temer can't handle pressure very well and this country is heavily corporatist.
>>74815163
Austerity is a codeword for not living in denial of being poor
>>74818352
I thought wall street wanted austerity
like in Greece.
>>74818634
austerity is the road to poverty
like Greece.
>>74818699
If spending money you don't have made anyone rich, Detroit would be so rich Jews would live there
>>74818634
Aprenda o que é austeridade, seu macaco
>>74819013
t. funcionário de estatal que não vai ter o salário reajustado acima da inflação esse ano
>>74818925
Detroit is poor because of niggers that set everything on fire not because of economics
Austerity just turns you into a shithole (Greece)
>>74816837
>they are when it's a pro globalist/austerity coup
you would choose globalist jew 100% of the times if the other choice were communists/marxists
>>74819114
É muito pior do que isso. Significa que não haverá investimentos em nada que proporcione bem estar, apenas cortes. E isso afeta diretamente a vida da população inteira.
>>74818642
The austerity measures here are different since we can still pay our current debts (the interests at least) as long as the economy is growing or at least stagnant. Our economy is much stronger, we have our own currency and our debt isn't over our GDP for now.
The problem is that the constitution and laws were designed to always increase benefits over time and never scale down. For example health and education investments, salaries, pensions and all kind of worker's rights always increases. Another example for example is that civil servants basically cannot be fired, so you can't reduce the state size until they retire.
Outside of retirement pension (there are people retiring at young as 48 and living until 90 and others getting as much as when they worked or even more), all the others could work when the economy is growing, but with the collapse of almost 10% in 3 years of the GDP the state can't even pay what it's constitutional obliged. Basically what Temer is expected to do is to stop the exponential growth in costs that would make it become as bad as Greece in a decade.
>>74819332
they're the exact same thing with the same policies
>>74819818
>For example health and education investments, salaries, pensions and all kind of worker's rights always increases.
How is that bad? Consumer spending spurs economic growth regardless.
The opposite would mean that somehow cutting wages would be good for the economy. Where do you see that?
During the Great Depression wages fell for obvious reasons.
>>74819818
The actual politic of Jewmer is just ''prioritize banks instead of people''
>there are people retiring at young as 48
False. The minimum age to work signed is 16. You need work at least 35 years to retire.
So the minimum age to retiring is 51. If you work 35 years to the state, it's obvious you have the right to retire.
>>74820095
>How is that bad?
It's bad because now the state can't pay anything, not health, not education and not even all the pension. Not even cleaning service and electricity for some of the largest colleges in the country, which are still in better state than schools. In Rio the justice had to imprison a bank manager to force the bank tp transfer from the state accounts against their will to pay late retirement.
>During the Great Depression wages fell for obvious reasons.
We are in a recession larger than during 1929 and wages are rising for many groups. The ones that the inflation is eating usually go on frequent strikes to achieve the same.
>>74820661
Isn't 48 for women?
>>74819389
You know what else affects quality of life?
Economic meltdown, rampant inflation and very expensive credit.
The budget is terrible, and it can't go on like this, our credit rating has already dropped and would just keep falling further, increasing interest.
Before it spirals off control, it has to be contained. Public bodies need to show themselves able to balance their expenditures and interest payments.
You can do that by printing more money, which can work somewhat, like what the US did in the last couple decades, or not at all, like all cases of superinflation, like what's happening in Venezuela right now.
You can also increase revenue. The economy won't expandd because if the public budget is in such situation, no domestic or foreign investor will invest their money. So you need to raise taxes, which makes me country less attractive for investors, and foreign countries are very happy to create tax exemptions to bring those business to them. It's what happened in Greece, they greatly increased taxes, and many companies "moved" to Bulgaria. Their operations didn't change at all, but thanks to Bulgaria's lower taxes, many registered there.
The last option is decreasing expenditures, that is, austerity. Many don't like that because a big part of the population depends on the government, either directly or indirectly.
Costs must be cut all around, no more public works, expansions of government insitutions, tax cuts for consumption, etc.
This affects the economy because now it lost it's biggest spender, the government. A big slowdowm follows, recession is a real possibility. Unemployment might also increase.
The economy will only recover after investors feel confident to start business again. This confidence comes from cheap credit, which is only possible if the public insitutions are able to honor their debts and achieve good ratings.
>>74819202
Detroit is poor from leftists and jews blockbusting, killing the property value, driving up crime in the name of diversity. Marxist shit.
>>74820777
>It's bad because now the state can't pay anything,
Brazil is a sovereign currency issuing nation it can't run out of money.
The US has run a deficit for years and it is the greatest country on earth.
>We are in a recession larger than during 1929
call me when unemployment hits 25% then you can talk.
>>74820989
>blockbusting
that happened in the entire US. Only in Detroit did the niggers get free reign to light everything on fire.
Stop apologizing for them.
Democrat cities that are still white aren't shit holes because "surprise" they're full of whites.
>>74820801
>The economy will only recover
Under austerity the economy will never recover
You are willingly turning yourself into a perpetual Greece.
>Coup
Didn't even open the link and I already stopped reading.
>>74821343
Worked for Portugal, that actually applied austerity.
Greece had endless renegotiations of their debt, and any measure tool years to be applied, if at all. Now they have stratospheric taxes, and a huge percent of their population unemployed.
It really will be very hard for them to recover, but only because they brought it into themselves.
>>74820801
Do you know that we don't have to pay the debts?
Argentina has not paid two times in the last 10 years and they are going well.
Also
>170 billion in debt
What a time to be alive!
Thanks,Dilma,if not for those evil congressmen and their damn coup we could have gone even higher!
>>74821343
we need to cut HEAVILY on public servant benefits, especially in the judiciary. Then cut some of the thirty something ministries to make better ones, and actually fire people.
Spend some money on welfare supervision, so we can take leechers off. Fuck, there's a lot to do
>>74821609
how was she elected
>>74821680
Gibsmedats and because shes a fucking woman.
But mainly gibsmedats
>Be first female president
>Gets impeached
Learn from our mistake.
>>74821609
>we almost have the same amount of debt as brazil and like half their GDP and almost none national industry
>>74821271
>Brazil is a sovereign currency issuing nation it can't run out of money.
First problem: Brazil is a federation and states can't print money, only the union.
Second and more important: print money -> money devalue -> inflation -> wages, pensions and other benefits are indexed by inflation -> costs raises together -> needs to print more money
>call me when unemployment hits 25% then you can talk.
January:7.6%, February: 8.2%, March: 9.5%, April: 10,9%
It's getting there. That's only considering people actively looking for jobs and not recently fired from stable jobs, currently 25% of the population is on welfare, usually meaning getting less than the minimum wage (or having tons of children in the family).
>>74821540
>Worked for Portugal, that actually applied austerity
No it didn't
they still have all the exact same problems only that they aren't being strangulated
>>74821680
poor people, fear mongering (they'll cut your welfare!), help from artists and actors (who received sponsor money from the culture ministry), and the main opposition was an unlikeable loser
>>74821540
> they brought it into themselves
Wall street brought it on them
You have no idea what you're talking about those debts were incurred bailout out the banks.
>>74821657
>we need to cut HEAVILY on public servant benefits,
So you're going to take demand out of the economy so you can crash it even more?
>>74821809
>states can't print money
that's no different from the US
>>74815163
Embrace Neoliberalism, my Hue brothers. It's fucking awesome.
t. Neoliberalism pro
>>74821540
Portugal still has a higher unemployment rate than Brazil
>>74816604
It isn't a coup because she actually commited a crime, which is specifically there just to make sure presidents don't do what she does, and for that she got impeached.
Also the Brazilian federation is fucking garbage.
Brazilian CONfederation when?
I refuse to be controlled by some clown in Brasilia,I want my own fucking laws.
>>74821998
by public servants i mean congressmen, their offices, judges, and other leechers who get CRAZY travel and living benefits. It's absolutely insane.
it was pretty much over for brazil as a country after 7-1
>>74815163
What is "austerity" even supposed to fucking do? Feels like most countries that impose it end up going bankrupt anyways.
>>74816292
Isn't it being done through legal processes?
>>74822201
same, they already leech too much too
>>74821998
>that's no different from the US
And our states are bankrupt, not even able to pay their public servants (which include most of education, health and security workers) and not even able to reduce costs because they have the same rules as the union (since brazillian states, different from the US ones, have barely any legal authority).
>>74819202
the UNSUSTAINABLE GOVERNMENT SPENDING made Greece into a shithole
austerity is how you fix it. greece is still a shithole because it doesn't get fixed overnight
>>74821998
And welfare and an extremely bloated public sector have nothing to do with it.
Funny that you excuse the Greek government for taking loans that they won't pay the interest, but won't excuse the banks that took the same kind of loans from the Greeks.
Yes. You can't have a demand that doesn't exist, you can't just write that your employees are rich and so it shall happen.
And some US states are in deep trouble with their debts. Same as here, they also incur debt and then can't pay the interest, but they can't devalue the currency, like the federal government does.
>>74822062
Still better than 5 years ago, and much better than Greece. Brazil having lower unemployment means nothing if unemployment keeps rising and productivity keeps dropping.
>>74822364
appease jew overlords who then send moneys, if the government refuse they block all the credit and exchange markets so the goverment crashes and burns and if they default they still get austerity through the contract
>>74816604
Like the elections you gave Iraq and Afghanistan?
Isn't it time for you to give Saudi Arabia some democracy?
>>74822402
The law competitions would be great too.
>Sao Paulo allows guns
>Rio bans them
>Sao Paulo gets 10x safer
>Rio a shithole forever
Its great everyone wins
>>74822489
Austerity is a meme that does nothing but help international banking interests at the expense of the people. Austerity is just an excuse to bypass democracy in order to loot pensions/publish spending programs.
>>74822374
Yes. It's not made of good human nature and desire to protect the laws because it's decided by politicians, but it's entirely legal.
>>74822364
Stabilize interest rates for the government, so they are still able to pay their interest, and therefore keep borrowing money to fund their budgets, which nowadays are always negative, everywhere.
>>74822681
>Austerity is just an excuse to bypass democracy in order to loot pensions/publish spending programs
KEK this is exactly what Dilma did.
>>74822364
It's a payday to the banks like after the 2008 crisis in the US
>>74822446
The US has been running a deficit for decades and no one here is dying. There is no hyperinflation.
>>74822489
The banking system destroyed Greece
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/greece-crisis-banks-greedy/398603/
The banking system killed Greece by needing a bailout.
Austerity is how you keep the country dead.
>>74822521
>Greek government for taking loans that they won't pay the interest
Greek officials partnered with Goldmans Sachs no less hid the loans
http://www.thenation.com/article/debate-is-goldman-sachs-partly-to-blame-for-greeces-debt-crisis/
Why should Greek citizens have to suffer for corrupt politicians?
>much better than Greece
Greece is still paying off it's bank bailouts and will be doing so until the end of time.
Portugal still has a stagnant economy though and it will be stagnant as long as the austerity continues.
>>74822201
>Federation
>South America
You're going to unify all of South America and attack the US now?
>>74822879
>There is no hyperinflation.
Yet we had in Brazil.
>>74822897
Federation is our form of state.
>Unify south america
God deliver our nation from this evil
>>74822778
Dilma moved money between state banks she didn't "loot" any pensions or spending programs.
>>74823033
You realize there is a difference between hyperinflation and inflation right?
"Some" inflation is good for the economy.
During the Great Depression we had deflation.
>>74823153
Brazil's inflation is low compared to actual inflation in the past.
way worse inflation has happened before.
>>74815163
Austerity worked in the few countries that really applied it like Estonia. Greece,Spain or Portugal never really had austerity,in fact they have a considerable deficit.
>>74822879
>the US has been running a deficit for decades [...]
Of fucking course, it's the US, the largest economy in the world. Just proves what I'm saying, countries which are able to responsably pay their interest rates have much cheaper credit, therefore can keep increasing the debt and still be able to pay interest.
If the US somehow becomes unable to pay interest in time, you will see more and devaluation. If it keeps going, the same thing that happens to all other economies can and will happen to the US.
But of course, the US will be the last country in the world for that to happen, because it can tax the US economy, the largest in the world. It also controls the availability of US dollars, the most liquid currency.
>why should Greek citizens have to suffer [...]
Because they voted those politicians in? Because they keep voting for them? Because no investor should be forced to offer credit to Greece just to keep their unsustainable economy afloat?
>Portugal still has a stagnant economy [...]
Good for them. Stagnant is much better than recession.
The population isn't growing, to expect that all economies will develop forever at a fast pace is utter madness, and what got the world economy on this mess in the first place.
Growth will only come with increases in production, not through cheap credit funding consumption of foreign products.
>>74823524
That's a myth
The Baltics are in hell right now
That's why they're all moving to the UK.
http://www.economonitor.com/dolanecon/2013/10/18/why-the-baltic-recovery-is-not-a-success-story-for-austerity-lessons-for-the-us/
>>74823153
>You realize there is a difference between hyperinflation and inflation right?
And if the solution to a bankrupt government ends up being to print and the states borrowing money with inflation-indexed costs the latter is the scenario we will end up again.
>"Some" inflation is good for the economy.
Sometimes, but here at ~10%+ it usually raises inequality with welfare and minimum wages not following it fast enough leading the poor population into vicious cycles of increasing debt while the richer classes having mechanisms to protect themselves and even profit.
>>74823153
>Dilma moved money away from state banks [...]
And the money ended up on the hands of terrible borrowers, from housing subsidies to companies to foreign money, lots of very risky deals were conducted, at a very low price.
It's tha same thing that started the 2008 crisis in your country, lending money to people who can't pay for it.
>>74823153
Vegetable prices rose by 400% in the last 10 years,you sure thats good for the economy?
In a country with a mainly agronomic economy it doesnt look good does it?
>>74823610
> countries which are able to responsably pay their interest rates
Every sovereign country can pay it's interest rates w/o hyperinflation
see
>>74823324
>Because they voted those politicians in
You can't tell who will be corrupt.
>Stagnant is much better than recession.
You can avoid stagnation and recession by opposing austerity.
>>74823856
> latter is the scenario we will end up again.
That's a myth
http://www.businessinsider.com/roche-11-myths-about-the-economy-2014-7
Hyperinflation is caused by outside shocks not money printing
>>74824111
That article doesn't deny that printing (enough) money can cause hyperinflation.
Does Bolsonaro have a chance?
>>74824111
Alright, let' s cut to the chase, I hear a lot from you "It doesn't have to be this way".
Tell me how a country in such a situation can recover without slashing expenditure, without ill effects on the population.
>>74824433
Too soon to tell, but it's a maybe.
>>74824111
>Thats a myth
>The US
>Central bank and bankers don't steal
I wanted to believe you but just no
Also if you don't have reserves and can't keep paying your debts you eat up hyperinflation
If there's no money left you either default on the debt or you start saving money.
Saving money can hurt on the short term but at some point it's the only thing you can do.
>>74824105
>10 years
that's miles from hyperinflation
cost of living doesn't seem high in Brazil
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Brazil&displayCurrency=USD
>>74824339
>According to Roche's research, hyperinflation's root cause is actually severe economic circumstances which resulted in an increased money supply. These include: a collapse in production, government corruption, loss of a war, regime changes, and ceding of monetary sovereignty. "While government debts and deficit spending can exacerbate a hyperinflation, they have not generally been the cause of hyperinflation but rather the result of other political and economic events," Roche said.
>>74824537
A government can always pay it's debts and the money supply can always be controlled by the government acting counter cyclically
that is it lowers taxes during a bust and raises them during a boom.
>>74824620
Governments don't work like households
They issue currency they don't need to "save" anything
In fact government saving money takes money out of the economy and causes a decrease in consumer demand.
>>74824620
I suggest watching this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHEjobYP6mg
>>74824433
Well,he has a <10% on recent polls,hes higher than Lula(if he ever came back as candidate).
But Bolsonaro never made a nation-wide campaign,he will get much more support after that thats for sure.
The common Brazilian monkey is religious and conservative,but is completely illiterate when it comes to politics.
>>74824720
>That site
How about you compare the wages as well?
Oh,and dont forget to multiply the dollar numbers by 3,50 as well.
And of course,dont forget to find a job to get those wages in the first place.
>>74824720
>Basic (Electricity, Heating, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment
>69.45 $
This site is bullshit,completely disregarded.
>>74824111
>These include: a collapse in production, government corruption,
Well, we have some of the former and a lot of the latter right now, but they are more like the ultimate causes behind it. The immediate causes are the out of control injection of money in the economy or extreme scarcity produced by then.
>>74824720
>A government can always pay it's debts and the money supply can always be controlled by the government acting counter cyclically
>that is it lowers taxes during a bust and raises them during a boom.
Not when you fucking have to payback in a foreign currency and 99.9% of the loans are made in a foreign currency since no one takes anything but Euros and Dollars and in case of the EU in a currency whose value can't be controlled
Hyperinflation here once in part was caused by high inflation rates , foreigners and traitors used to borrow money from outside and give massive amounts of loans at a higher interest rates than they took. Since there was a shortage of foreing currency as the government had to pay back the debt people took those loans, this ended up emptying the central banks reserves which led to hyperinflation
Back then we had a relatively self suificient national industry and energy supper plus but still stuff had to be imported
Everything is valued in dollars internationally, the only country that gets away scott free is the US cause they can manipulate the dollar
>>74815163
>have more than 70% of approval of the popualtion
>backed up by constituition
>COUP
ok
>>74824720
>mfw still looking at these market prices
>1 liter of milk 0.79
KEK
I fucking wish this was true
These are extremely fucking outdated or outright wrong,never use this as a source ever again.
>>74824720
>according to Roche's research
That just explains why a country would print so much to the point of causing hyoerinflation. Of course it's some extreme measure like those mentioned, if the country has need of such an amount of issuing, it's in an extreme situation.
>by the government acting counter cyclically
And that can never happen because when the conomy is in a boom socialists tend to get ellected, who then go on to increase both taxes and expenditure in expecting the boom to last forever.
It's what happened here, there was a large increase in revenue during our boom, thanks to high commodith prices, attractive economy for investing, oil reserve founds.
But, it accompannied huge increases in expenses. The public sector increased in size, many costly tax breaks for consumer items, large public works.
And now that the economy cooled down, we can't keep going with these expenses. We can't even dream of cutting taxes, the deficit is already too high.
The solution was to have started decades ago, thinking about the future. Now we suffer the consequences, we can't afford to earn less, so the next best thing is to spend less.
And hopefully we will go through the next boom already expecting it to end.
>>74825469
Im not defending her but
>In these countries literally no one goes to jail no matter how much evidence is against them
>The impeachment happen to hit around the same time all commie government are being replaced by pro US governments
They want as many countries in the TPP as possible
>>74825981
>The impeachment happen to hit around the same time all commie government are being replaced by pro US governments
Do you get your news from RT by any chance?
>>74816604
>impeachment isn't a thing in democracies
>>74825981
>The impeachment happen to hit around the same time all commie government are being replaced because they can't rely anymore on high oil prices to keep badly maintained economies afloat.
fixed
>>74825277
>>74825058
>>74825474
what's a good site then?
>>74825381
In that case it makes more sense to cancel the debts than let the economy be destroyed
>>74825504
What it shows is a lack of control of the money supply
As long as the government controls the money supply there won't be hyper inflation
>socialists tend to get ellected
Then it wouldn't matter since tax increases would decrease inflation in boom times. As long as you also decrease taxes during a bust everyone wins.
>>74826161
This desu, underdeveloped countries all drink from the same fountain, it dried foe everyone.
Still, I don't believe most of our politicians had a change of heart due to civic duty, there had to be other powers besides the population to convince so many of them to vote.
Someone make this easy for an amerifat like me to understand, please.
It's 2am and I'm not thinking straight.
>>74826319
No idea,not my concern.
However,in my case,I got a average wage job and I rented a 1 room apartment in the centre of my city,it burns 90% of my income every month,and I can barely survive a week wiith whats left,the rest i depend on my father,shit sucks,but beggars cant be choosers.
>>74826424
president did countless crimes
she is being investigated so the vice is now president, in some months she will be judged and impeached(unless she finds a way to corrupt the judges too with money, what i don't think that will happen)
she was a terrorist before being politician, but leftist jew media covered everything saying she was a hero for fighting for democracy(by stealing banks , weapons and being involved in murder)
>>74826424
There are people who believe that the best is for countries to print money whenever needed and not paying the debts when it's too large and others believe that the best way is reducing costs and negotiating a way to pay all debts.
But when it comes to that the country is already fucked anyway.
>>74826319
>as long as the government controls [...]
And as long as you have a lot of money, you won't be poor.
How are you going to control the money supply if the answer to "How much money do we need to print to pay all our employees" is "A shit ton"?
>Just don't pay them!
That's what austerity is, expect it has the decency of telling employees they're now out of a job, instead of delaying their salaries.
>as long as you decrease taxes
We can't do that. We're running on a serious deficit, our debt and interest is increasing too quickly.
We can only cut expenses and ease the deficit, austerity.
>>74826485
real estate bubbles are typically caused by cheap credit another banking policy that fucks over consumers
but that's not factored into CPI
According to this CPI is increasing at roughly the same rate as it was in the mid 90s
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/brazil/consumer-price-index-cpi
>>74826674
>Commie guerrilla fighting for democracy
Gets me every time
>>74826742
>"How much money do we need to print to pay all our employees" is "A shit ton"
you can control the value of your currency at any time by raising/lowering taxes
>Just don't pay them!
That leads to financial collapse obliviously
Unless you think it's possible to live without pay
>We're running on a serious deficit
deficits aren't serious unless you are still on a gold standard.
>>74817131
lols leftist faggot trying to save their socialist scum pals, Hey fag, that marxist woman broke their entire nation's budget! and they're wrong for trying to oust the bitch? Fuck you and fuck your ideology, your fucking socialism ruins and impoverishes entire nations into dirt!
>>74826768
communists in brazil in a nutshell
>we want democracy!
>get democracy
>we want communism!
>>74817537
or you know they can pull through, enjoy the economic miracle that milton freidman's policies gave for chile, germany, and china and become a rich and powerful nation.
>>74827014
>broke their entire nation's budget
That's not how "budgets" work
A sovereign nation can't "run out of money"
>>74826985
>you can control the value of your currency at any time
And wages and benefits are indexed over inflation here, so they will always follow. Fixing that is what everyone but labors want from Temer.
>>74827078
>blindly following a jewish economist
Sometimes I wonder about libertarians
>>74827165
The idea is that they have more money in order to increase demand in the economy
If the government runs a surplus it's sapping money out of the economy.
>>74826985
We don't have the political capacity to increase taxes, all attempts by the government to probe possible increade faced stiff opposition from the population, business and politicians.
Everyone is tired of our high taxes, we pay some of the highest in the world and see it being squandered.
Pretty much everyone wants the government to spend taxes better instead of wasting it on bloat and corruption. We can't be bled even more to pay for a barely functional government.
Our deficit is damn serious for us because we aren't the US, we don't control the world's economy.
Our federal govermment's credit rating has already dropped on all rating agencies, if it kept going like that, we wouldn't be able to borrow money anymore.
We would have to choose either stop paying salaries and collapse, or inflate our currency through printing. As I said, higher taxes aren't an option, Brazil has always run by being squeezed dry.
>>74821998
wtf! government doesn't provide demand you idiot, where does the government gets it's funds? from the private sector! THE PRIVATE SECTOR PROVIDES THE DEMAND AND SUPPLY
And no, The socialist EU forced greece to NOT DEVALUE THEIR CURRENCY (the only way to balance the losing equity of their markets) to ensure that the Euro doesn't lose its value!
>>74827247
>The idea is that they have more money in order to increase demand in the economy
Except that inflation will decrease demand instead.
>>74827121
You're saying it because you live in the US, your nation's money is worth the entire world.
A nation can, and does run out of money. It's what happens in hyperinflation, you could pick all the money ever issued, and wouldn't be able to exchange it for a dollar.
Happened in Zimbabwe, their money could float around, but wasn't worth anything, no matter how much of it you had.
Can someone break down whats happening in Brazil please? Want to know but not sure what is legit and what isnt
ITT
>>74823822
you've said one thing then the given article says another, Estonia is doing great right now
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/estonia/gdp-per-capita-ppp
>>74827320
>higher taxes aren't an option
If you're worried about hyperinflation that's the obvious fix.
You don't have hyperinflation right now though so there's no reason to raise taxes or cut spending.
>>74827325
the government creates demand via "printing"
>>74827368
inflation increases demand
>>74827471
>Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe's inflation was caused by them killing all the whites and destroying the economy.
>>74827247
Wtf, and you would suggest for them to follow socialism, the thing that broke their country?
Even here in canada, harper brought us out of the world market crash with a 1.8 billion dollar surplus. he cut taxes 186 times and lowered government spending. Our investment grading even went up to it's highest in history (AAA) when harper was in parliament
>>74827757
>Second, all three have seen mass emigration over the last four years, particularly amongst the young. All three have the highest emigration rates in the EU, with 24 people out of every 1,000 leaving Lithuania in the last year. This, in turn, has restrained domestic unemployment; and while people should be free to go and find work where they can, their exit hardly counts as a ringing endorsement for the government. Rather than protest, as Kattel and Raudla suggest, many are choosing to leave
http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/the-myth-of-successful-baltic-austerity
Basically they had to export their population to afford it
Where do you think Brazilians should run off to to afford austerity? I assume you are volunteering Canada.
>>74827956
I expect jews to jew and destroy the economy which is what they are doing with neoliberalism in the exact same way they ruined the world with Marxism.
You are just a dupe who has fallen for propaganda.
I was sent to that site once when I asked a HUE for some dumb bullshit socialist crap hole to laugh at.
>>74827839
That isn't demand you idiot, they are encourage VELOCITY! demand is far from what they are encouraging! but I could forgive it all if they did it without putting more money without the subsequent increase in the value of the dollar!
>>74827620
>>74828174
consumers need to have money in order for there to be "consumer demand"
I didn't think that was too difficult to understand.
>>74822251
Underrated.
Presidente.
>>74827989
>http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/the-myth-of-successful-baltic-austerity
I followed the blog, looked at the hyperlinked that was suppoesed to have detalis about the emigration, It was GONE and worse yet it transferred me to bloomberg!
here's the real stat, and it shows that emigration FELL and that the net migration was POSITIVE.
>>74816292
>democracy
>literally power of the people
>major aprovation is undemocratic
kek
It just keep proving itself to be a fucking shitty system.
>>74828415
Oh here comes statist faggot and his meme candidate who flip flops every year.
>Against the impeachment
>MUH GAWPI
>OMG THE US IS OUT TO GET US
>Literally Collor 2.0
Fuck off
>>74828458
Are you seriously trying to deny the mass immigration from the Baltic states caused by austerity?
http://michael-hudson.com/2014/05/stockholm-syndrome-in-the-baltics/
>>74827839
>if you're worried about hyperinflation [...]
I'm worried about being able to pay rent, buy groceries pay for healthcare. I'm interested in the economy because it's about my survival, not because it's some entretaining hobby.
>You don't have hyperinflation right now though so there's no reason [...]
Fuck you. Just fuck you, now I don't even have anything else to say, I'm just that fucking triggered.
You don't know what pic related is. And if you do, you never saw it in action. You don't know what it's like for your life savings to vanish in thin air.
Those "funny" pictures from McDonald's prices in the 70's, when everything was cheaper than a dollar, aren't funny at all for us. We saw in some days inflation you didn't see in your entire lifetime.
Going to a supermarket, and there always being guys with labelmakers running around, updating prices to account for inflation.
The money you had in your hand, loses it's value in front of your eyes. One day it was your month's salary, but if you waited too much it would only afford you a sandwhich and some juice.
You have no idea how these policies affect people, and I don't think you even care.
>>74826319
>In that case it makes more sense to cancel the debts than let the economy be destroyed
Yeah nah they took more loans cut that shit and made the Debt go from 10% of the GDP to 50%
>>74826047
>>74826161
No south american country is reliant on oil with the exception of venezuela, all commodities went down the shitter all countries entered in crisis cause their own markets is composed of only 10% of the population
Don't get me wrong, she probably deserved it as much as our previous government deserves to be shot but nothing happens here without foreign intervention
I mean fucking hollande and obama came within 4 months of the new government, holland was like 2 weeks after Macri was elected
Thats abnormal
One Argentinian is going to be made head of the United nations
This shit has been brewing for quite some time im afraid
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>ONE OF US
ONE OF US
ONE OF US
>>74815163
Austerity is a lot better than plunging your nation into debt it can never get out of
People need to realize that everything ain't always peaches and cream
>>74828819
and yes, i will argue against it. without using blog posts but using statistics.
>>74828750
>meme candidate
are you sure you'r not talking about Bolsonaro
>>74829322
He may as well be if he doesnt step his shit up before 2018.
>>74828996
Yeah, the socialists have been paiting such ridiculous scenarios of foreign involvment, such as a CIA agent inside every board meeting and political cabinet, that now it's common to disregard any sort of foreign interests.
Our politicians deserted the government coalition massively, they had to have reasons for that. It wasn't only pressure from the people, the economic sector had to have influenced them too. Why not foreign business and money also?
I think most of the big guys in finance know what's up. They can't be outsmarted by /pol/, they know Europe is going down, and they need a new place to put and make their money.
South America is a great option, but they need to clean house first.
>>74829279
like emigration statistics?
>>74829152
kek
yes ruin your economy so you can pay goldman sachs
genius
>>74829152
>Yeah, the socialists have been paiting such ridiculous scenarios of foreign involvment, such as a CIA agent inside every board meeting and political cabinet, that now it's common to disregard any sort of foreign interests.
Socialists my ass that being said you can't deny that everyone wants to do austerity and join TPP
But when you pull austerity, the economy enters in recession which leads to less taxes which leads to less revenue and a lot of angry
>>74829486
Why not fucking Brazilians for Brazil and Argentinians for Argentina?
You would literally be ruled by foreingers who could give a shit about you and all your economy would be insta dolarized which is what happened here since getting pennies doesn't cut it for them
If you complain they pull the plug for some time and you are fucked and yet no one who matters is going to complain cause they can pay up anyone
>>74829553
>muh Keynesianism
You don't fix an economy by printing more money and then giving it away
>>74815163
Are they providing welfare to the 1/4 of their total population?
How can this be anything like Greece.We never had a welfare program to begin with.
>>74829775
>But when you pull austerity, the economy enters in recession which leads to less taxes which leads to less revenue and a lot of angry
What's the alternative?
>>74829553
https://www.stat./90665
https://www.stat./72517
just put ee after the "." 4chan blocks it.
>>74829775
I don't know, everyone gave up on Autarky, I think it might simply not work in today's globalized world.
All the production chains are so complex, you'll have a hard time restricting them to a single country.
We're pretty big so we could pull it off better than almost everyone, but even so, we would be far from making up for it.
Even if you nake a great country, with a stable economy, safety, peace and everything else, if you can't match up to the living standarts fruit of globalization, you'll be taken down.
It's what happened to Salazar, Portugal was doing fine, slowly modernizing but not seeking to attend the desires of the global economy. The finances were great, the regime ended with huge reserves, but no one cared about anything, because other countries were richer.
>>74829849
How would i know? no one does, if they did we wouldn't be having this thread.
Probably your country crashing and burning and China and Russia making an alternative so that no one has to pay debts
>I don't know, everyone gave up on Autarky, I think it might simply not work in today's globalized world.
You don't need to produce EVERYTHING, just whatever the country needs and can, we have enough natural resources to live off fine not to have to worry about competing with 1st world countries in anything else and nothing would stop you locally from trying to do so
It worked well for Argentina for like since its inception, so well we got multiple coups
>>74815163
>unironically using the Austerity meme
Get out Krugman
>>74830392
The answer is there is no alternative
Brazil dug themselves a hole and austerity is the only way out, it won't be quick and it won't be easy but in the long run the country will be better off for it
>>74830737
So all countries are shrinking their expenditure which means Brazil revenue is going to naturally go down which means they have to tight the austerity which means their economy shrinks which means they have even less revenue and more austerity and
How does it fix anything?
Also once austerity measures are enacted they will never go away and will most likely have introduced a ton of legal loopholes that can be exploited later
>>74830908
Of course once countries hit rock bottom they get flooded with multinationals who buy everything for pennies
and the cycle starts again
right?
>>74830908
Ireland, unlike Greece, Portugal or Spain, actually reduced taxes and public spending. Why is their economy not only not shrinking, but growing at the fastest rate in the EU?
>>74831090
All those countries get FREE EU moneys and imports and their currency is euros which is almost as good as the dollar
>>74830908
It prevents a massive economic collapse by popping the bubble preemptively
There will still be investment and growth but it won't be propped up by massive government spending programs meaning it will be real growth not "look at all this money we printed and are pouring into every facet of life!"
>>74831179
>Investments
That might be the case with Brazil which is arguably since theres no way they get enough as they are a massive country
But at the same time since all countries are in recession at the same time who the fuck is going to spend money knowing theyll get nothing in return? specially now that theres so much instability? Nothing is going to give them immediate gains and anything can happen
What about countries whose economies are 60-70% composed of natural resources?
Why would anyone invest in industries in countries which are net exporters of natural resources who might lessen or stop their sales to supply and protect themselves in the future?
Specially when its still much cheaper to hire workers in SEA?
Why would you want to let countries to regain sovereignty, when you can wait for them to collapse and buy up everything?
>>74826756
Don't even bother with CPI. It's manipulated to all hell to say whatever the hell the government wants to say
>>74831174
Only poor countries receive EU money, Ireland is actually on the giving side of the EU and still growing.
>>74832519
Because all british companies want to avoid british taxes and move their HQs to ireland
and they still get all the benefits from being in the EU like access to cheap goods and the Euro
not to mention their population is tiny
>>74832637
>their population is tiny
Like Greece, yet look at them with their bloated government spending.
>Because all british companies want to avoid british taxes and move their HQs to ireland
Source?
Besides, international companies have no country, countries are constantly in competition to attract capital investment and austere countries win. Plus the amount of opportunities capital imports bring to local wealth generators are what's shooting Ireland's economy through the roof.
>and they still get all the benefits from being in the EU like access to cheap goods and the Euro
Free trade is beneficial of course, the Euro itself as a currency is not really that big of a deal, it's just less shitty than the US dollar at the moment, but the devaluation against gold shows it's doing poorly. Ireland could probably have a better currency, like Switzerland, if they wanted.
>>74833411
Greece has almost 3 times irelands population?
>Besides, international companies have no country,
Absolutely bullshit their country is whichever is the strongerst and can protect its interests, everyone else is fucked
>Source
i don't have. A bunch of of British and Irish posters , plus the comments from people from here who emigrated to Ireland
and you can't tell me that having gigantic companies who are only there to avoid England's taxes doesn't make a massive different
Free trade is beneficial of course, the Euro itself as a currency is not really that big of a deal, it's just less shitty than the US dollar at the moment, but the devaluation against gold shows it's doing poorly. Ireland could probably have a better currency, like Switzerland, if they wanted.
>have access to goods no one can deny you even if you can't pay them
>have a strong money that can buy anything a ton of stuff
>That is also extremely stable and backed by 20 something countries
>if anything goes wrong youll get bailed out
>since the union dont want countries to collapse, they will help it as much as possible
>which means easy credit
>Switzerland,
Switzerland only exists because they do massive amounts of money laundering and who knows what else
>>74833882
It also right next to England so they can't destroy it too much or else Brits will end up getting redpilled
i bet no one from western Europe knows that much about what happens in Greece
>>74815163
Shut your burger filled mouth
We're lucky if we become greece, faggot. We just dodged the Venezuela bullet
Is any brazilian here feeling the efects of the economic crisis? I mean things just looks comfy as always for me , I wouldnt even know about the crisis if the news didnt keep reporting it everyday
>>74820095
Spending yourself rich is impossible because your increase demand is an unsustainable illusion brought by an ever dwindling supply of money from which to drain (aka, Brazil after Lula and Rouseff, were alleged growth was occurring but surprise, it wasn't and now the economy went to shit because there is no money to throw around).
>>74815163
>Telesur
>news
>>74816048
>Its not a coup if 60% of the population supports it.
we've been saying this for years, good luck convincing the cucks
Our austerity failed but at least now our deficit is much smaller than it was 5-10 years ago.
It failed because our retarded governments decided to fuck the private sector up. Meanwhile , the public sector was left unharmed because public workers are their voterbase.
Brazil should open up its markets, reduce taxation and cut spending if they want to succeed, aka do the complete opposite of what we did.
