>mfw wageslaves still see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires rather than an exploited proletariat
>>74725470
Mfw Marxists still believe a political-economic system can function without incentivizing production
>>74725470
Amerikeks only understand laissez-faire capitalism and totalitarian communism. No in-between. Deep down I'm sure they understand that without regulation, capitalism is hell, but they get triggered pretty easily when discussing it. They need more Teddy in their lives.
>>74725993
With regulation capitalism is hell
Cuck
What other socialism is there besides the one that infringes on my natural rights
>>74725470
>>74725879
>mfw captialists think everyone should work solely on greed and encourage this base behaviour
>>74725470
Hey maybe you should visit Venezuela these days you might like it.
>>74725993
Tell your pm to start dropping people if he doesn't like what they say
>>74725470
This post clearly shows how marxism is an ideology based on self deprecation and whining rather than a continuous push to self improvement
>>74725470
NOT
The funny thing about marxists is that they spend 95% of the time sneering at other people and bombarding them with jargon from the works of their pet theorist
Then when you get down to what they actually believe it is so mind numbingly, ball crushingly retarded that you simply cant understand how anyone with a functioning brain could possibly believe it
They are basically just religious fanatics by a different name
>>74726199
this desu
>>74725470
fuck off, kid.
>>74726133
Mfw when blades of grass live solely off greed as is the nature of any individuals existence
Faggit cuck bitch
>>74726133
A pity Lee Kuan Yew isn't around to purge your commie ass
>people still don't realize that Marx predicted all kinds of thinks, like financial crisis 2007
>people still don't realize that Marxism is the way to go
>>74726275
Are you ok bro
Things seem pretty fucked up in Venezuela atm, hope you are not dying or anything
>>74725470
literally no one I've ever met thinks this
this whole
>americans only put up with the rich because they think they'll be one someday
is a total myth
no one thinks that, by and large this country is pretty disenfranchised with the american dream and puts up with the upper class mostly through apathy and a 'it could be much worse' mindset
>>74726251
Tick tock, wagie.
>>74725470
I'm living in a quite nice house I'm renting in a Welsh suburb with my girlfriend who isn't even working and just cleans and cooks. Paying for all that plus bills and necessities for me and her with only a couple of years experience in my field and a degree I haven't payed for yet.
If this is a system is exploiting me then I say so be it.
>>74725993
>without regulation, capitalism is hell
i agree.
>>74726088
>With regulation capitalism is hell
hell no.
some bare minimum regulation is necessary for capitalists to not run amok and turn their personal companies into commie arenas for who kills how many in how less a time.
a perfect balance between capitalism and socialism is necessary, all the while making sure the entire nation benefits from it.
>Democratic Nationalist Socialism in a republic of the people, for the people, by the people.
>far fetched dreams
who am i kidding, people are selfish and they literally have been killing each other for a loaf of bread.
>>74725470
>We can't tax the wealthy! I-if I just keep working 80 hours a week and play by the rules I'll be a job creator too someday!
>Socialism never works! Trickle down economics, now that's a strategy for proven success!
>Why raise the minimum wage or cut taxes for the poor and the middle class? Giving more money to people who go out and spend their money makes no sense! That money is much better off in mr. Schlomoberg's off-shore bank account!
>>74726374
>NEETs defending marxism
top lel. The dregs of society tend to associate themselves with failed ideologies
>>74726343
>I predict at some point there will be a recession.
Woooooow, he is so smart.
>>74726470
>tax the rich to pay for higher minimum wage and low income tax breaks
>rich leave
>no tax
>debt
Now China owns your nation, gg
>>74726445
Who are you kidding?
You're a fucking idiot
Name one action that is selfless
Even when you let Jerome pound your girl in the ass your being selfish
>>74726284
>captialism is natural
Lel
>>74726336
Relax comrade, I'm just shitposting.
>>74726573
>lel
>argument
>>74725470
>>74725470
>temporarily embarrassed millionaires
>hi, i'm cuck and i'm embarrassed that i workd hard and smart to earn so much money i don't what to do with it.
>exploited proletariat
>they asked me to work 8 hours a day for a standard industry-average wage
>how the fucking dare they?
>gibsmedat
>>74726553
>>74726553
>Who are you kidding?
>Name one action that is selfless
read again, i literally accept in the last line that no one is selfless, never has been, and never will be.
people are selfish, that is why we see the invisible hand of capitalism taking us to the moon and mars.
of course, it doesn't mean we can't have our democratically elected [as it may seem to the normie masses] to regulate the industries up to some extent.
>the national industrial code of conduct demands you pay your workers 15$ an hour, Mr. Capitalist, or we cancel your license to operate. what'll it be, then?
>>74726374
>i dont have a job and im also a marxist
Classic
>>74726343
That blind bulgarian woman predicted 9/11, should we make her president of earth?
>>74726644
Lol what a load of bs. As if the bourgeois will start handing out shares of their company.
>>74725470
>Mfw despite all the 106 Million people that have been killed as a result of Communism neo-edgelords and lefty cucks will STILL try and defend literally the shittiest idea of an economic system ever created in the history of mankind.
>>74726275
Dude stay save the storys coming out are pretty intense. People hunting dogs and birds because of food shortage literally germany ww1 style O_O If you need money or food is there actually a way to send it so that the average person gets it?
>>74726859
How about you buy those shares with the money you earned with your hard work, instead of being a lazy fuck and just complaining about being poor?
>>74726088
>Natural rights
There's a meme that needs to die.
>>74725470
It's not about being a millionaire. It's about being free.
Thank god I'm not some interchangeable cog that "enlightened planners" can choose to use as they wish. I'm entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and there's nothing you can do about it you marxist piece of nigger shit.
>>74726133
Actually, of between capitalism and communism, only one belief requires that people be inherently altruistic,. Capitalism has no such requirement.
>trying to make economic/business arguments when all you've done is an ECOP subject and have no real world experience or success.
Pic related.
So the alternative to being a 'wage slave' is what? Living completely off the grid in the middle of nowhere and having no amendaties.
>>74727047
Kek
>>74725470
Marx didn't realize that a worker can start his own business and compete like a bourger at any time.
The real problem with Marxism is that most people are passive, easily contented drooling imbeciles that no amount of money or ideology will cure.
>>74725470
>see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires rather than an exploited proletariat
someone who believes he can be something and works hard for it
vs
someone who constantly feels cheated and entitled to success he didn't earn
>>74726284
That is why we cut them down.
Such parasitic individuals should not be allowed to enjoy the breeze.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
behold the great utopia that Marx imagined when casting down the bourgeoisie who just manage and exploit all your food supplies, why couldn't they see the simplicity and mass booming efficiency of incentiveless production
>>74727030
Natural rights are "nonsense on stilts".
>>74725993
Most capitalists aren't anarchists. They understand that government is a necessary evil to ensure that monopolies don't emerge and to ensure that people are treated equally under the law, as well as to protect against would-be invaders with a military self-defense force specifically trained in areas that civilians would have trouble training with (sea combat and air combat, for example).
In order to make an argument for socialism or communism, you need to ask yourself what the legitimate role of government is.
Being from the US, I have wonderful blueprints. The Declaration of Independence is why, and the Constitution is how. So, if you subscribe to Constitutionalism, you would say that you believe that individuals, when left alone and given the freedom to make their own decisions, tend to do so more effectively than government bureaucrats in Washington, and therefore, it is morally imperative for the government to protect and guarantee people's said freedom and liberty as laid out in the United States Constitution.
Notice how I didn't promise you any free shit.
>>74727157
>poor people shouldn't have a say about what I spend their money on
>>74727322
what a "great leap forward" :X
>>74727254
>Marx didn't realize that a worker can start his own business and compete like a bourger at any time.
Depending on what he'd be trying to do, it usually requires capital. Workers often don't have real economic freedom, so they work for subsistance-level wages and can't build up capital. And they cannot compete productivity-wise with those that have capital.
>>74727254
>worker can start his own business and compete like a bourger at any time.
This. People can start worker co-ops right now without any hassle. Where are all the worker-owned factories and shops? Surely those exploited masses would jump on the opportunity to cast off the chains of their capitalist oppressors!
The only people who cry about muh exploitation muh wage slavery are those who don't actually work for a living. The real proletariat are doing just fine, it's just the communist """intellectuals""" who are buttblasted about things
>>74727254
>>74727254
>a worker can start his own business and compete like a bourger at any time.
only in capitalism.
>The real problem with Marxism is that most people are passive, easily contented drooling imbeciles that no amount of money or ideology will cure.
agreed
>>74727446
>requires capital.
>mom-and-pop stores.
>start-ups
>the next big app
people can when they will.
>>74727387
Poor people should be cleansed.
I cannot fucking wait for robots to eliminate the need for 90% of the working class.
>>74726953
While I slave away at my $10/hr job Chad ThunderCaptial is earning $6,000,000/hr from dividends, interest and captial gains. And what's this? Chad is using his money to buy all the stocks, raising their prices to their book value! I can either gain minimal returns on high risk or continue slaving for Chad.
>>74727530
What about the poor robots? Will you cleanse them too, comrade.
>>74727254
No you can't.
You need captial to start a business. Unless you're starting in a business with extremely low captial requirements.
>>74727360
>government is a necessary evil to ensure that monopolies don't emerge
Many people think this, and those people would be wrong. Monopolies in any meaningful sense are only possible through government interference in the economy. It is precisely through regulation that they form and are able to remain stable. Same with cartels.
Evil is evil, there is never anything necessary about it.
>>74727553
Or you can get a better job.
But you'd rather whine on a malaysian moving images online support group.
>>74727530
I always love it rich people act like their the victims and the poor are actually evil.
You queers always show your true colors eventually.
>>74727590
Every single day I pray for some technological innovation that brings mankind closer to an Elysium style of living.
If you're not worth at least half a million in the bank by age 30 I don't want to talk to you, I don't want to see you on the streets, I don't want my children hanging around your failure of a family.
There is simply no excuse for being poor in this day and age.
>>74727530
>I cannot fucking wait for robots to eliminate the need for 90% of the working class.
Same. And I say this as a member of the working class. Only through automation will we get to post-scarcity, and thankfully that process is inevitable. The sooner we get there, the better everyone will be.
>>74727650
>the poor are actually evil
poor people are evil
many of them remain poor because they don't appreciate the things they are given
if you are perpetually poor there's either a problem with your own motivation or you are somehow physically or otherwise disabled to a degree that you can't function normally in society
every other excuse comes down to personal choices and weakness
>>74727612
Except for the Oil Monopoly that cropped up in the past, right? One guy selling his gas at a great loss until all the other gas stations went out of business, then jacking them sky high. Government had nothing to do with that monopoly, as they were practicing laissez faire capitalism at the time..
Monopolies can form naturally. As for your, "evil is evil" argument, that's true. The roll of a very small government is to ensure that no great evil gets to harm their citizens without the citizens' explicit permission. Dumping waste into the river and letting it flow downstream is one such example.
This is why minarchy is the logical conclusion, not anarchy.
>>74727781
>le edgy alt right slogan
This is why no one takes you fucking losers seriously. Unless you're in the top 1% of the elite, you're going to be "cleansed" too.
Most of you fucks have nothing. You're either shitposting neets or retarded high schoolers they're going to be a millionaire as soon as they get out of college.
>>74727322
There were famines in China before Mao.
>>74727612
>monopolies only exist from government interference
By providing the captialist framework for such monopolies to form, than using the police to maintain the status quo.
>>74727618
I guess I could save $50,000 over ten years to go take night classes. Then after another five years of working 7am-7pm, then classes from 7pm-11am and working weekends to pay for my classes, I could get a degree and up my salary to $20/hr. But what's this? Chad's net worth has grown exponentially at an average rate of 20% a year! And he is now considered an experienced CEO, earning 60,000,000/hr! He buys even more stocks! My net worth hasn't changed since I spent every penny on night classes, and while Chad was lounging on his yatch the whole time his net worth has grown by 1,500%!
>>74727781
>are
you are confusing evil with stupid.
also, if you do not realize that poor people are a necessity for the rich to remain rich, then you must stop talking right now.
>>74727830
>>74727830
>monarchy
or even fascism [if the dictator is actually smart and loves his people]
someone does come to my mind...
>>74727360
Government and civil society are two sides of the same coin. One cannot exist without the other.
>>74725470
>mfw people post a picture of this exploitative faggot which bad writings I got shoved down my throat in my Soviet childhood
Kill yourself
>>74727759
>Having less than 500,00 in the bank is poor.
I find it hard to believe someone so stupid could actually be rich.
>>74727923
Very true. They also act like the elimination of labor isn't going to be a good thing, not because you're not going to have to work, but because everything will be so cheap that you won't have to work very much.
>>74727960
>the strawman is real
>>74727830
>Oil Monopoly that cropped up in the past, right?
Are you referring to Standard Oil, which had a shitload of competition in its time and never once engaged in the mythical predatory pricing bogeyman statists cry about?
https://mises.org/library/100-years-myths-about-standard-oil
>practicing laissez faire capitalism at the time
Hahaha.
Stop being afraid of the scary a-word. You think ancaps were born into the philosophy? Almost every one of us was a libertarian minarchist making exactly the same arguments you are now.
>>74727612
>Monopolies in any meaningful sense are only possible through government interference in the economy.
There is only one shortest route between any to points. If you own the shortest route, you have a monopoly on the shortest route.
Monopolies are "naturally" occuring phenomena.
The Fourth International and Basic Income is the way forward for humanity
>>74727986
I don't believe that I argued anything different.
>>74727971
Rub your eyes pajeet. I never said the word Monarchy.
>>74728078
Yeah? How are those countries without governments going?
>>74728033
Spoken like a true plebeian.
$500k in reserve is fuck all.
>>74728111
>I don't believe that I argued anything different.
You didn't.
>>74728084
>meaningful sense
Key word here. I "own" (not really, thanks to eminent domain, but let's imagine for the same of argument) the specific plot of land that I live on. By your reasoning, I am a monopolist. As is everyone who owns anything, since your definition of monopoly applies to any instance of property ownership, be it land or objects. Ask yourself, is this what people commonly refer to when they talk about the "risk" of monopolization in free market capitalism?
I think I like the stormfags better than the lolberterians.
>>74727971
>also, if you do not realize that poor people are a necessity for the rich to remain rich, then you must stop talking right now.
if the bottom rises, so do the rest above them
but there will ALWAYS be poor people relatively, and they aren't a necessity, just a fact of life
>>74727923
>you're going to be "cleansed" too
see above, classes have to exist for there to be an upper/elite class
>Most of you fucks have nothing
it's always a process of ending with more than you started with, you don't need to get rich to defend the rich
being rich is just the ultimate goal that everyone should work toward in order to collectively (fun word, right?) uplift society over time
there will be lower and upper classes, but they will live better than the lower and upper classes that came before them
or, you know, we can just stagnate in an effort to suck the dick of equality until we're an amorphous blob of serfs and peasants waiting for our weekly potato rations
>>74728187
Alright, then cheers, Brit. Hope you get the Brexit. From what I can see on this side of the pond, fear mongering is in full force.
>>74727960
>I guess I could save $50,000 over ten years to go take night classes. Then after another five years of working 7am-7pm, then classes from 7pm-11am and working weekends to pay for my classes, I could get a degree and up my salary to $20/hr. But what's this? Chad's net worth has grown exponentially at an average rate of 20% a year! And he is now considered an experienced CEO, earning 60,000,000/hr! He buys even more stocks! My net worth hasn't changed since I spent every penny on night classes, and while Chad was lounging on his yatch the whole time his net worth has grown by 1,500%!
Indeed, life is unfair, boo fucking hoo.
Better complain than change yourself, right? It's not that I'm a disgusting fat fuck, it's other people who are (undeservedly) thin!
Also if your concept of happiness is how many gadgets you own, protip : you will never, ever be happy.
>>74728111
>never said the word Monarchy.
sorry, you said
>"minarchy" is the logical conclusion
>>74727387
>poor people shouldn't have a say in what I spend my money on
Fixed that for you.
>>74728185
And how did you come to have that much. Did you earn that entirety yourself?
>>74728332
Minarchy is a real thing pajeet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minarchism
>>74728352
>I stole this money fair and square it's MINE!
>>74728384
well, color me uneducated.
fucking fags and their fancy new words.
>>74728298
You mean captialism is unfair, but we should totally keep it right? It's totally not capitalism's fault 1% owe 40% of the wealth. Those people worked so hard that what they did was worth a million other people's salaries!
>>74728386
>I earned this money fair and square its mine
Why do I keep having to fix your statements?
>>74725470
Capitalism is in a permanent state of crisis. Market economies are constantly collapsing, I've lost count of the number of markets economies that needed rescuing or rebooting.
Even the "greatest" capitalist economy on the face of the planet has $20 TRILLION+ of debt sloshing around... and this economy is considered a "success"...
HAhahahaha
There are constant shortages in Capitalist economies too. Same as old school command economies of the Soviet Empire. The difference is: the shortages are reflected in prices, not the absence of goods and products.
Most Capitalistfags are too stupid to understand this.
>>74728150
>countries
>without governments
M8, a "country" is defined by a piece of land with a government. A land without a government on it is not a country by definition. Is Antarctica a country?
See if you can track down a copy of pic related. It's widely held to be the best intro to anarchism for regular, non-academic folks, and it's written in a way that doesn't make you want to shoot yourself (as opposed to many philosophical works). Read it, and point out the flaws to yourself. It shouldn't be difficult, if the case for minarchism is so clear.
>>74728437
>You mean captialism is unfair, but we should totally keep it right?
Yes, we should keep it because it's the only system compatible with freedom.
I would much rather be poor in a free country than rich in an unfree country. This sentiment is shared by many : look at the thousands of engineers who fled the USSR to become taxi drivers.
>Those people worked so hard that what they did was worth a million other people's salaries!
Somewhere down the line someone worked hard for the money. It might not have been Chad, but it could've been Chad's dad or granddad.
>>74728458
as a blood-red commie, everything he doesn't have was simply stolen from him by demons and criminals
>>74728298
Couldn't agree more. Hell, in the states, 2 people working minimum wage can live VERY comfortable lives in the midwest. Not luxurious, but comfortable nonetheless.
When the left-leaning Brookings Institute says that following 3 rules gives you a 98% shot of getting out of poverty, and a 75% shot of getting into the middle class, and the libertarian-leaning CATO Institute agrees, you had best listen.
http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2013/03/13-join-middle-class-haskins
>Let politicians, schoolteachers and administrators, community leaders, ministers and parents drill into children the message that in a free society, they enter adulthood with three major responsibilities: at least finish high school, get a full-time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/more-welfare-more-poverty
>Observers have known for a long time that the surest ways to stay out of poverty are to finish school; not get pregnant outside marriage; and get a job, any job, and stick with it.
>>74728360
First employee and CTO in company that got purchased by one of the big miners around the time of the boom.
Put most of that money into residential and commercial property, the rest went into equity but property has been the real boon.
27 no kids, no wife.
>>74728244
> I own the specific plot of land that I live on. By your reasoning, I am a monopolist.
Nope.
It's only a monopoly on a resource if your "plot of land" is a unique resource. The shortest route between two points is, by definition, unique.
>>74728437
B-B-UT I'M BETTER THAN YOU NEETS CAUSE I ACTUALLY HELP FUND MY RACE REPLACEMENT! I ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO A SOCIETY THAT WANTS ME GONE! HAHA TAKE THAT YOU NEETS!
>>74728544
Capitalism is only possible do to competition.
You grow fat while stealing bread out of the hands of the needy.
Stop trying to pretend you're a fucking saint. This nation was founded on satanic practices.
It's just we use morality equality and virtue as a means of keeping the cogs oiled.
>>74728437
Correct. There were no involuntary transactions in the free market to lead you to believe that it isn't fair. If I were to sell you a pencil for 200 dollars, there was no evil. You valued the pencil more than you valued the 200 dollars, and I valued the 200 dollars more than I valued the pencil. We both won. If one of us didn't like the terms, both of us were free to walk away from the deal.
>>74728465
those rises and falls are what drive the system, and make it better
>There are constant shortages in Capitalist economies too. Same as old school command economies of the Soviet Empire. The difference is: the shortages are reflected in prices, not the absence of goods and products.
so would you rather pay more for a product, or simply not have the product available to begin with?
what if it was the barest, most basic thing you relied on for day-to-day life, as was often the case for the Soviets?
that presence of rise/fall is precisely what keeps products on the shelves and keeps you from starving with a pocket full of money
>>74728544
Precisely.
>Know people who have made their wealth fair and square
>One such instance is in my blood line, being my father's father.
>Started his own business after living frugally and working his ass off at International Harvester
>Went into flipping houses as a secondary means of income
>Went from barely affording the mortgage payments on a 1800 sq. ft. house to being able to pay the mortgage off a 5700 sq. ft. house in 6 years
>Communists still want to take his hard-earned money
>>74728465
>shortages are reflected in prices, not the absence of goods and products
Of course the shortages in the soviet union were reflected in prices. The black market reflected the natural price of goods (when they were even available). The difference is that lower regulation in a market economy results in less shortage, which means lower prices.
Price and quantity are not magically independent qualities. Where the fuck did you learn economics?
>>74728384
>>74728406
>>74728332
>>74728111
just read the wiki article.
minarchism does sound acceptable.
tell me more.
>>74728649
>We both won. If one of us didn't like the terms, both of us were free to walk away from the deal.
Nope.
In any transaction where there is a disparity in power no "voluntary" exchange is possible. The exchange is made under duress.
A person who owns resources has more power than someone selling their labor in order to live.
It is on this point Libertarianism implodes.
>>74728575
>shortest route between two points is, by definition, unique.
My plot of land contains the shortest route between two points on the planet's surface. Again, you've just stated that everyone who owns land is a monopolist (unless you're going to move the goalposts and claim that land by itself is not a "resource").
>>74728776
>Government only grants protection from fraud, force and abuse of its own power
>The Free Market dictates everything else
>>74728561
if you didn't grow up in the shithole parts of the midwest, you're a dumb motherfucking idiot with no grasp of what it's like to exist that way
it's why youth here turn to heroin/meth so often
not enough time during one's youth or enough money from jobs to afford a move until you're jaded, overworked, and too depressed. better to end it fast and high.
education here is shit and affords little opportunity to attend college. most people are fucking poor, even in the "nicer" areas. kansas 2008, my high school honors biology class was teaching creationism and intelligent design as legitimate scientific theories. i was in the minority for believing in evolution
so fuck you, you clearly didn't grow up in the part of the midwest you're describing
>>74725470
>yfw upper class white kids see themselves as the proletariat and not first for the gulag
>>74728465
Capitalism isn't the worst system, and the problem is the corruption, which is worse in all the other systems.
>>74728738
>Communists still want to take his hard-earned money
Better than using it to stuff his ungrateful grandbrat with a silver spoon.
Nepotists are pure fucking scum.
>>74728569
So you got lucky with the mining boom to make all your money, good job but it's not like the entire population can do that.
I do agree that being poor is really a choice but that doesn't mean you should be elitist towards the middle class just because you, though probably worked for it, got lucky with your fortune.
>>74728776
Basically libertarianism without all the retarded extremist stuff. How all western governments were before 1914.
>>74728708
>so would you rather pay more for a product, or simply not have the product available to begin with?
If you can't afford it, the item isn't available.
> most basic thing you relied on for day-to-day life, as was often the case for the Soviets?
Er... the basics were available to the Soviets. After the 1930s The Soviets ended the centuries of famines that had gripped the Russian Steppes.
>>74728823
>labor is not a resource
and this is why you are retarted
>>74728575
>It's only a monopoly on a resource if your "plot of land" is a unique resource.
His plot of land is unique to that specific geographical region
>>74728885
>Feeds his grandbrat
>He hasn't given me a lick of money I haven't worked for
Nice try, Mr. Hammer-and-Sickle, but Economics is Economics.
>>74725470
>Choosing real slavery in a commie regime than wage """slavery"""
kek
>>74727612
What about natural monopolies?
>>74728644
>Capitalism is only possible do to competition.
economies are only possible due to competition
>You grow fat while stealing bread out of the hands of the needy.
the real theft occurs when you take from money i've earned to help feed those people in the form of taxes and welfare
>Stop trying to pretend you're a fucking saint. This nation was founded on satanic practices.
>It's just we use morality equality and virtue as a means of keeping the cogs oiled.
but the problem with your morality is that its foundation is based on the childish idea that you can, and must help people by giving to them selflessly regardless of the consequences
has no one told you about the problems inherent in such behavior?
i swear there must be dozens childrens' stories about how you shouldn't just give things to the needy without any thought to the effects
>>74728823
>where there is a disparity in power no "voluntary" exchange is possible. The exchange is made under duress.
We are to accept this just-so argument without any justification?
There is no situation where two parties are completely equal in an exchange, because that would require two identical people with the same features (possessions, social standing, intellect, etc.) performing that exchange, at which point it wouldn't happen because there is no longer any incentive.
>>74729005
leftist boogeyman. They don't exist.
>>74728743
>Of course the shortages in the soviet union were reflected in prices.
Prices were centrally controlled.
>Of course the shortages in the soviet union were reflected in prices.
There was no "natrual price". The "Black Market" is the information problem written large. It reflects a massive disparity in power between those selling and those buying - it is an exploitative relationship.
Economics 101.
>>74728776
Robert Nozick's "Anarchy, The State, & Utopia" is the closest book I have read on Minarchism but sometimes it goes full retard.
>>74727426
Great leap forward in killing your population. :3
>>74728847
>My plot of land contains the shortest route between two points on the planet's surface
Are those two points in demand?
If not, your land is not unique.
>>74728939
>If you can't afford it, the item isn't available.
it's more expensive, not so expensive you can't ever possibly get it
most people would budget around this, or find a way to earn more money (and in turn, pull their weight in the economy) but you see this as some sort of malicious barrier
>>74726336
We must revive Based Lee for this task alone
>>74726275
You need bitcoin lad?
>>74728644
Exhibit A: a window into the mind of the average leftist
Where we discover that their political beliefs are not founded on reason, but rather on disgust and affected moral outrage
>>74728960
>muh hard work I earned
You didn't build that faggot. You were given the OPPORTUNITY to be able to earn that money.
That's the thing with you neo-con shills. You want to deprive people of the ability to even be able to earn their money.
You're no better than the communists who think a man should be deprived of the opportunity to feed himself in order to feed some nigger.
Peas in pod, two sides of the same fucking coin. Even worse that you work for your grandfather. You got an easy out and stole a jobe from someone who was probably more qualified than you simply it was your "birthright".
>>74728947
>labor... not a resourse...
hahahaha
>>74729031
please define "exploitative" because I am confused as to how you are using it in context
>>74725470
Your mum will die one day. Then she won't be able to support you. What will you do when it happens?
>>74727596
With the internet it's easier than ever to glue stupid shit together and call it a small business.
>>74729026
>We are to accept this just-so argument without any justification?
Is power equally distributed?
Can you answer that question without committing an "appeal to nature" fallacy?
>>74729121
>You were given the OPPORTUNITY to be able to earn that money.
yes, with capitalism
depriving others of the ability to earn money is antithetical to capitalism
>neo-con shills
I would bet almost no one here is a neocon
>>74729137
I have to agree, you throw enough lives at something, it'll get fucking done.
>>74728896
Luck had not an iota of relevance to my success (and actually property has been more lucrative to me).
In any case if there wasn't a mining boom, if property for some reason was not financially attractive I would have found some other pursuit to make my wealth.
You want to be rich? From age 17 onwards, put your life into your studies. By the time I hit 20 I was doing 80-100 hours a week between work/study.
If you're older than 18 and haven't don't this then too bad that ship has sailed. You will almost certainly never be rich and that's nothing to do with fate or luck but just your own damn fault.
>>74729137
so are you saying "Labor is a resource" because that IS what I am saying. As your prior statement here (>>74728823) implies that labor isn't a resource.
>>74729018
>but the problem with your morality is that its foundation is based on the childish idea that you can, and must help people by giving to them selflessly regardless of the consequences
Now where are you getting this from?
I'm not some cultural marxist who believes in a welfare state, I just think it's wrong that there's not enough jobs to go around, meanwhile you faggots prounce about with your wealth that were given and opportunity to earn, you see what I did there?
You were still given something. Sure, the money you earned fair and square, but you wouldn't have been able to do it without the opportunity.
And you fags want to take that away so you can have fancy robots and laugh your sadistic asses off as you watch two people beat each other to death over a sandwhich.
You're not capitalists, you're corporatists. Which is worse than communism.
>>74729169
>please define "exploitative"
Get yourself a dictionary.
>>74726088
sweet summer child
>>74728823
There is a disparity in power in every single transaction that takes place anywhere at any time
So either you are denying the possibility of a consensual transaction or your definition of what constitutes one ia retarded
Take your pick, which is it? Bearing in mind that if the first one is true then all sex is by definition rape, and thats just one of the implications
>>74729275
You're chasing your own tail.
>>74729311
I have a dictionary this is why I am asking you to define it you troglodyte from Edinburgh. You are using it fucking wrong. Especially in the economic sense.
American thing worked for America because of their situation.
Now they want whole world to be like America, except that will only profit their elites.
>>74728862
I grew up in Boston, and live in the Midwest.
>>74729384
>American thing worked for America
america was "good" in the 60s and the 90s only because it profited off the destruction of great world powers. and it used the wealth and power it gained from murdering these forces of stability and progress to indulge in, spread, and normalize disgusting levels of social degeneracy, intellectual decay, and moral filth.
america should be melted in nuclear hellfire and soon for the sake of humanity
>>74729283
>I just think it's wrong that there's not enough jobs to go around, meanwhile you faggots prounce about with your wealth that were given and opportunity to earn, you see what I did there?
>You were still given something.
we were given opportunity by the capitalist system
i've worked shit tier factory jobs since high school, and have slowly built myself up to a level where i can compete for higher paying jobs
the best way you can help this job market situation is by adjusting the regulations so doing business here, among us, is more valuable than it is overseas
then the jobs will return, and competition will continue to invigorate the quality of life for us all
if you don't support a welfare state, you have to at least support changes to the current system that help improve that window of opportunity you want so badly
unfortunately, socialist policies are the opposite of what capitalism needs to thrive, and we've seen that become more and more clear over these recent years
>>74729351
>There is a disparity in power in every single transaction that takes place anywhere at any time
I agree.
No transaction is free of power relationships. Those with access to market information have the power over those who do not. Those who own resources have power over those who do not.
>So either you are denying the possibility of a consensual transaction
When there is a disparity in power the transaction isn't voluntary, it is made under duress.
>Take your pick, which is it?
Bifurcation fallacy so soon?
>>74729098
>You need bitcoin lad?
are you really gonna send him a $450 bitcoin?
also, how do i start crypto trading?
google doesn't clear it much.
can you visit crypto-general on >>>/biz/ someday?
Also, Trump-coin a good choice?
>>74729005
Natural in what sense, naturally occurring, or monopolization of natural resources?
The latter is a self-referential definition, and the former is as likely to happen as a world government. That is to say, we have yet to see one, and it doesn't appear to be at all possible in the foreseeable future.
Recall that merely owning something in a particular area is not a monopoly in a meaningful sense. A monopoly is defined as one entity controlling the sole source/supply of a commodity. If I own the local iron deposits, I am not a monopolist, because you can always get your iron elsewhere. If I own all sources of iron on the planet (and we do not have the facility for extraplanetary mining), then I am a monopolist. Never in history has a single firm owned everything.
>>74729031
>It reflects a massive disparity in power between those selling and those buying
You don't seem to understand what a black market is. It arises when the demand for goods and services is artificially limited by government. It is the opposite of exploitative, because only through the black market are participants able to obtain the goods they desire at the prices they find acceptable.
>>74729374
>I have a dictionary this is why I am asking you to define it
I'm using the Queen's English, I suggest you do the same, for clarity's sake...
>>74729548
>When there is a disparity in power the transaction isn't voluntary, it is made under duress.
Therefore
>all transactions are made under duress
therefore no transaction is voluntary
therefore all sex is rape
>Bifurcation fallacy so soon
How adorable, he thinks he can distract from the point by noting logical fallacies
Listing fallacie: the last refuge of an intellectual scoundrel
>>74729093
>Are those two points in demand?
>If not, your land is not unique.
Do you enjoy making up new definitions of common concepts?
>>74729614
my question still stands, or are you still going to be nothing more than a welsh sheep shagger?
>>74729211
Minarchist reporting
>>74729121
>Stealing a job
>Stealing
>Work
>Implying that my old man wouldn't fire my ass if I goofed off on the clock
>>74727254
>Marx didn't realize that a worker can start his own business and compete like a bourger at any time.
Marx lived in the mid-1800's. When ten year old boys in England were chimney sweeps and coal miners, and when women worked their fingers to the bone in textile mills for peanuts. Workers back then were pretty fucked.
And even now, there are huge multi-billion dollar conglomerates that preclude your average Joe from saddling himself with a business loan and venturing out into a world he knows little about.
>>74729537
I'm not so radical but I agree.
Anyway, I wish American people happiness, but if they support American imperialism, they are the enemy. Not just to others, but to themselves.
Average American profits less and less from actions of their globalist cabal.
>>74729548
>Bifurcation fallacy so soon
He made no fallacy, stop it with your pseudo-intellectual silliness.
>>74729592
> It arises when the demand for goods and services is artificially limited by government.
A "black market" is by definition: DEFINED BY GOVERNMENT. It's covert nature is why it's called "black", it is hidden from view. It is NOT a "free market". As you imply.
>participants able to obtain the goods they desire at the prices they find acceptable.
The "black market" amplifies the information problem - buyers simply cannot make informed decisions. They are in a captive market, effectively.
your a dorable
>>74725993
>canada
>>74729782
but American Imperialism is a different concept from globalism
if we were truly imperialists, we would be working for OUR profit, not the world's
you would just be forcefully made a part of that, while those who didn't get in would rightfully suffer various penalties
>>74729241
>Every individual can/wants/needs study 80+ hours a week.
>A tertiary education will always have a positive result.
>Nobody has ever got rich after 18.
Got a link to your get rich quick seminar? You sound like the end all be all on how this all works.
>>74729715
>preclude your average Joe from saddling himself with a business loan and venturing out into a world he knows little about.
That's funny, because that's exactly what small businesses are, and in our modern economy they are multitude. What truly precludes an average Joe from starting a business is that it takes a lot of work and the need to assume risk. Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur.
>>74729865
You work for the profit of your elites. That's the sad thing.
>forcefully made
That happened. More often, American imperialism works insidiously, but effects are same.
>>74729659
>therefore no transaction is voluntary
>therefore all sex is rape
I see logic isn't your strong point.
>Listing fallacie: the last refuge of an intellectual scoundrel
You started with a strawman fallacy, then resorted to bifurcation fallacy. Classy.
A transaction is only voluntary when there is parity in power and access to information.
>>74729963
>A transaction is only voluntary when there is parity in power and access to information.
Well said.
>>74729829
>buyers simply cannot make informed decisions
This guy is too much.
>>74729690
And, I refer you to the answer I gave some moments ago.
>>74729946
>You work for the profit of your elites.
yes but those elites are a valuable part of the process, just like the struggling small-time entrepreneur
>That happened. More often, American imperialism works insidiously, but effects are same.
we work to improve our economy though cooperation with other markets, not exclusivity
that's the main difference here
if we were imperialists, we would have a more inward approach to economic affairs, and we likely wouldn't suffer so badly from outsourcing and other such globalist-approved practices
but, if we were aggressive enough to actually be called imperialists, those external markets would eventually become internal, and experience the benefits that came with it
don't forget imperialism is an expansionist system that relies on self-serving growth, not worldwide economic cooperation
>>74729798
>He made no fallacy
It's apparent your eye test is over due...
Wageslaves realize that a economic system built around envy will never be satisfied. It will constantly cannibalize itself and target the middle class after the upper class are removed, and then target the upper lower class after that. This happened to the Bolshevists, this happened to Maoists, this happened to the Cubans, this is happening to the Venezuelans.
Not saying that Socialism is bad or that capitalism with restraints are bad. But Communism is such a demented political system fucking Islamism or Separatist Mormonism are more practical.
>>74730101
But you're wrong. Your elites do prosper. People do not.
>>74730022
It's apparent you don't understand the "information problem". A "black market" is a distorted market, by definition.
>>74729829
>They are in a captive market,
For a given good to exist on the black market, it must necessarily be either too expensive, or too scarce on the open market, due to regulation. That means that the open market is more "captive" by definition, because there is even less opportunity for the desire for that good to be satisfied.
When people participate in a black market, they are necessarily informed about the situation on the open market, because nobody will assume extra risk when it is not necessary.
>>74730161
that's a nice opinion you have there
>>74728458
Because children don't have the firmest grasp on language. (hence why the pester-power children who have taken control of left-wing politics have turned it from a pretty stoic path to dignity into a sprawling mess of ultra-liberalism and narcissism. No discipline, raw selfish emotion and a lack of comprehension)
>>74729963
>>74730130
>A transaction is only voluntary when there is parity in power
For fuck's sake, you already admitted that there is never complete parity in either power or information. By your own idiotic definition, there is no such thing as a "non-exploitative" exchange.
>>74729829
The black market is the only truly free market as there is no government involvement. No taxes no tariffs or regulation at all. The only gov't involvement is if you get caught as they will punish you harshly for not giving them their cut. You have a product and it's shit, don't expect to sell it for much. You have a high value desired product, you get the money. If you are not informed and make intelligent decisions you will fail. Not everyone is equal and not everyone can make the cut.
>>74730211
>it must necessarily be either too expensive, or too scarce on the open market, due to regulation.
Indeed.
A "black market" is created by Government.
>That means that the open market is more "captive" by definition,
Both markets are captive. Both are created by Government; not by freely associating individuals.
>When people participate in a black market, they are necessarily informed about the situation on the open market,
Black markets are covert, all information is restricted. They are profoundly disfunctional markets.
>>74730339
black markets are the freest markets, and a good example of why truly free markets are destructive to progress
if robots take all the jobs and universal income becomes the norm, does that mean corporations will finally have all the power?
>mfw there are still defenders of capital on /pol/
>>74730397
it'll cause a serious paradigm shift and likely result in severe growing pains for everyone
if you're getting your production revenue from a government-funded universal income program, are you really making money or gaining wealth?
>>74730327
>For fuck's sake, you already admitted that there is never complete parity in either power or information.
Again, another fallacy (reductio ad absurdum). Some power relationships are flatter than others.
For example, when two people who own resources engage in a transaction the power relationship is flat, because neither party depends on the other for existance.
>>74730081
so you cannot define "exploitative" in a proper sense because again you are using it fucking wrong especially in the economic sense. Reason being "Fixed pie fallacy."
>>74730380
>all information is restricted
Utter nonsense. Look at the drug market on the Silk Road when it was at its peak. A good deal of information was readily available. Certainly not as much as it would be in a free market, but not dramatically less than in most open markets, and certainly not "all" information as you claim.
I agree that black markets are making the best of a shitty situation, but the fact remains that they are superior to the open market with regard to the specific goods and services traded therein.
>>74730339
>The black market is the only truly free market as there is no government involvement.
"Black markets" are created by Government prohibition.
You silly cunt.
>>74730404
>when u think culture can't exist next to a market economy
>when u get anarchistic, predatory free markets confused with capitalism
>when u talk about preserving white/western culture and u are jewish
>>74730198
A black market is a market that operates outside of government controlled markets you dolt
>>74730578
>so you cannot define "exploitative" in a proper sense
The term "expoitative" is not arcane. Go look it up in a dictionary.
>>74730250
It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
Furthermore, your elites ensured they can't be touched. Look at this debate about taxation.
>t-they'll just move elsewhere!
They're holding you hostage, while impoverishing average American and the rest of the world.
System is real.
>>74730404
Idiots never any work by Frankfurt School. They simply heard bad things and they repeat them like parrots.
>>74730594
>"Black markets" are created by Government prohibition.
and what if the market in question has no regulation at all?
what if it's so new there is no prohibition against it?
you folks arguing about terms are shitting up the thread
>>74730394
How do you figure that. People will be creative constantly trying new methods and angles to get ahead. An overwhelming regulatory system or even worse state control of production completely stifles and slows that creativity.
>>74730548
Reductio ad absurdum is a weak counterargument, because it wades into arguing from an inconsistent ground. This entire thread you've been shifting definitions. I suppose you get to decide what the threshold for power and information parity is? You'll know it when you see it, type of thing?
>>74730586
>Silk Road.
The products for sale on Silk Road were restricted by Government. Cocaine was expensive because Government was limiting the market via prohibition. This was reflected in the "black market" prices.
> black markets are making the best of a shitty situation, but the fact remains that they are superior to the open market with regard to the specific goods
The prices on the "black market" are directly the result of Government prohibition.
>>74730690
>They're holding you hostage, while impoverishing average American and the rest of the world.
>System is real.
it really is the other way around
our regulation forces them to act, and often that leads to people being left behind
guess who in our government creates these poor socialist regulations that cause this type of behavior among corporations
>>74730643
>A black market is a market that operates outside of government controlled markets you dolt
Er... Government prohibition dictates the high prices of black market goods. Black markets are Government creations.
>>74730725
in a truly free market nothing stops the richest of the rich to fuck over those poor folks completely
nothing stops them from behaving in exactly the way you think they behave now
they would literally prevent them from existing
>>74730788
Stockholm syndrome.
But I understand why it's so prevalent in America. You lack a real identity on which your existence would hinge. America is literally business.
That's why it's problematic when said system tries to force others to change. It can't happen without destruction of culture and nation.
>>74730778
>The prices on the "black market" are directly the result of Government prohibition.
I understand this entirely, it's exactly what I was saying. I originally pointed out that a shortage is a shortage, it doesn't matter if it's reflected in prices on the open market (as in a market economy) or prices on the black market (as in the Soviet Union). That was the original point of this entire black market discussion.
>>74730910
>Stockholm syndrome.
pick your poison
do you have an affinity for a system that has opportunity to grow, or one that promises to take care of you as long as you know your place
great risk and great reward vs endless, equal mediocrity
>>74730728
>Reductio ad absurdum is a weak counterargument,
No, you inferred an absurd conclusion on faulty reasoning.
>I suppose you get to decide what the threshold for power and information parity is?
Am I not entitled to an opinion?
Anon has a monopoly on kerosene lamps.
Anon has put all the other kerosene lamp companies out of business.
Edison invents the lightbulb.
Anon is fucked.
>>74730875
>fuck over those poor folks completely
Give some examples of what kind of things this would entail.
>>74730394
And yes. Destructive to socialist ideas held up like a religion. It's 2016, there's no Tzars left to murder Comrad. There's been 100+ years for socialism/communism to prove itself as a viable system and it's has failed miserably. Over 100 million murdered by their governments in the last century just to keep their boot on the neck of their people and maintain control. If you love socialism so much move to venisuala and try not to be killed by looters while hunting cat and dog to feed yourself
>>74731003
literally everything marx said about capitalism
>>74730957
No.
The "black market" is a capitive market, it is not a "free market". It does not "better reflect" produciton costs, at all. It allows those with access to resources to dictate prices, effectively.
>>74730969
>great risk and great reward
Only in your materialist mind.
As I said, you can't understand my perspective because American ''nationalism'' is in essence highly superficial. You don't have real nationalism. You don't have real religion (well, most of you). You don't have real culture.
It's all a facade to make it more digestible to a human, while at it's core it's simply a business and your God is money.
>>74725470
mfw lazy degenerates think they are entitled to anything at all without working for it.
>>74730984
It was the reasoning you provided, so if it's faulty you have yourself to blame.
>No transaction is free of power relationships. Those with access to market information have the power over those who do not. Those who own resources have power over those who do not.
>When there is a disparity in power the transaction isn't voluntary, it is made under duress.
>Am I not entitled to an opinion?
Of course. If you're trying to convince others of the validity of your opinion, however, you have to make a case for it.
>>74731020
relax nigga
i'm no communist
people just need to realize that free markets need regulations, or they degenerate to anarchistic corporatism, they need direction that serves the people they rely on
>>74731074
Specific examples, please. It shouldn't be difficult, if there are evidently so many.
>>74731080
I never said a black market was a free market. Pay attention.
>>74731251
>anarchistic corporatism
What is this?
>>74731301
>Specific examples, please. It shouldn't be difficult, if there are evidently so many.
should I tell you the color of the sky while we're at it?
imagine all the worst things that could happen if a self-governing corporate body exercised its power over others for its profit alone
>>74731333
a hypothetical
>>74731380
In all that time you spend writing your post, you could have given at least one example.
>power over others
What power are you referring to?
>>74730875
You have never been involved in a black market I'm guessing. First off as I said before: we are not all equal. As much some can't believe it to be true it's a fact. It takes a special combination of traits to excell and succeed. Do you think a person with an IQ of say 70 could run a Fortune 500 company? Not going to happen. It takes intelegence and drive to succeed
>Marx
> listening to a lazy fuck who never worked a day in his life, who begged for money from everyone going, left his children in squalor to die from disease and banged his slave (maid who was sent by his wife's mother and never got paid) who then he left her baby to have no father.
Marx is a cunt and this is what he wanted from society. Who wants this?
>>74731543
you're being difficult for the sake of it
what's your point in this questioning?
are you denying that such a thing could ever happen?
>>74731545
>You have never been involved in a black market I'm guessing.
you make it sound like black markets are some sort of organized, structured system
if by some chance that occurs, it definitely isn't a system that has more purpose than profit in mind, especially at the vicious expense of others who are involved
>conservitards spend their energy making money in skill based jobs
>leftist master race peruses knowledge and truth at universities
>conservitards wonder why the educated class is blowing them the fuck out
>>74731724
>what's your point in this questioning?
To try to pin you down on the fantasy you're peddling. You use a lot of buzzwords, and no concrete examples or arguments.
>>74731892
i'm explaining a situation that must be avoided because it is the natural result of a market without boundaries, purely profit-driven anarchism, the truly free market that has never existed
it isn't real, it has never happened and resulted in lasting success
it's essentially a worst case scenario reached through reasoning, understanding that at heart in any system, some people will always prefer to help themselves before others, and will do so if they aren't persuaded otherwise
you're asking for concrete examples of a doomsday scenario, it's another hypothetical situation
>>74728597
>my work is better than everyone else's work, even those who make 99% of my product for me while i sit in an office chair because i said so
>>74731724
Yep you have no idea about black markets are like. I'm from DUDE WEED land and we have a very big black market. There is probably a bustling black market where you live also. The people who don't do as well and can't get their shit togeather will end up working with the people with the big ideas and plans to get paid. No one man is an island and it takes lots of people sometimes to operate black market businesses. There is fierce competition that keeps everyone competitive price wise and generally black market wadge for labor is $20 an hour to start or percentages of total profits.
>>74732164
and does your DUDE WEED economy care about anything but its dollar value at the end of the day?
it's totally irrelevant how your particular black market functions, it's still an unregulated free-for-all
>>74732126
It's literally happening here right now. People are making fortunes off it. The medical mj system here is so fucked it's a free for all. The gov't has shit the bed on their 420 plans and have a situation where there is basicly no gov't oversight and it's quasi-legal but has no tax and regulation system set up for a good while to come. So end result is a genuine free market.
>>74732126
>worst case scenario reached through reasoning
So it is speculation on your part. We're getting somewhere. Now explain what kind of things are supposed to happen in this chaotic, dystopian evil that you call the free market.
>>74725993
>In-between
Wow cancuck, now I've seen the light! Fuck off with this argument to moderation. You leafs wouldn't have a single original thought even if mehmet buttfucked you with one.
Do some independent thinking for once in your life
>>74732496
and if it didn't exist on the sidelines of a legitimate, regulated economy?
do you believe it could sustain or improve a society or government itself?
>>74732541
>Now explain what kind of things are supposed to happen in this chaotic, dystopian evil that you call the free market.
i told you to read marx's fairy tales, apparently that's not enough
if you just come clean and tell me you're denying that an unregulated market could damage society rather than better it, we could get on with the discussion
>>74732674
>if you just come clean and tell me you're denying that an unregulated market could damage society rather than better it, we could get on with the discussion
I am denying this, yes. I thought that was fairly evident.
>>74732289
Yes. There is a great amount of effort put into making quality product as the end goal is to sell said product. It sounds like you as chasing a ghost of an idea that doesn't really play out in reality. 1% of the population of people are true psychopaths and may act like you imagine it to be but the other 99% are normal and not out to destroy all competition. Also you may be putting too much faith in people to be able to fully dominate a market. You'd have to have a group of people fully dedicated and indoctrinated to the ideal and with any group that's going to almost impossible
>>74732812
well I would ask you to explain why you believe this
we don't get anywhere by chasing down the effects of a system I believe wouldn't work, if you need someone to describe to you underlying plot of Mad Max or something, I really can't help you
>>74732862
>Also you may be putting too much faith in people to be able to fully dominate a market. You'd have to have a group of people fully dedicated and indoctrinated to the ideal and with any group that's going to almost impossible
>and with any group that's going to almost impossible
oh come on now
>>74732674
It would be quite self sustaining in a society without gov't involvement in business. It puts responsibility into people's own hands vs submitting personal responsibility to the gov't. You are your own master and it's in your own hands to make your success. I think that's where the base misunderstanding is. People can actually govern themselves when given the opportunity and not have it forced on them by government
>>74732930
For a number of reasons. Some examples: I do not believe that "benefit to society" is a valid, or even measurable, metric on which to base economic policy, and that economic policy doesn't need to exist. I do not believe exchanges are exploitative unless the threat of force is involved. I believe voluntary, uncoerced exchange results in the optimal distribution of resources. I do not believe people are inherently entitled to someone else's property or labor by merit of existing. I do not believe monopolies can be sustained (or possibly even formed) in an unregulated market. And I believe that likening the society in Mad Max to an unregulated economy is a colossal non-sequitur.
>>74733045
Name one specifically. There's not one market absolutely dominated except for ones that are gov't instituted and enforced. That's the only monopoly's I can think of
>>74733299
It's fearmongering. It the state goes away and there's no one carefully watching and regulating your actions it'll be a class 5 chimp out!!!! Faith in the gov't is just that, a religion to some that they fully believe in as a set of rules and moral guidelines. If slavery is taking or taxing 100% of someone's resources then you start counting down at what point is it not slavery? 80%? 50% 30%...
>>74733299
we clearly disagree on several very fundamental points
you have a lot of faith in people
>>74733397
thank bad regulation for that
just because we have regulation now doesn't mean it's correct or beneficial
>>74733688
>you have a lot of faith in people
You have too little. You have to break away from the mindset that you're the only clear-headed individual among a sea of mindless sheep. Just as you know you are the most qualified to make decisions for yourself, so do others.
The main difference between us is that I believe I have no right to dictate how someone else lives their life, provided they do not bring harm to me or my property. You believe you do.
>>74734035
>The main difference between us is that I believe I have no right to dictate how someone else lives their life, provided they do not bring harm to me or my property. You believe you do.
i believe i do (or few do), because i know others would given the chance and motivation
>>74733688
Ya I agree. I have a question for you. Up in Canada almost everything is regulated and monitored here and it's getting overwhelming. I get a mining licence and it's 45 days of paperwork, online registration and forms to fill out. Large fees to pay for licence then that gets me to the point of being abale to start looking to claim land. Then more paperwork and fees to claim land(about a month at it). Then another round of fees, permits from ministry of forestry and permits for water use. Then business licence that cost $160 for taxation of mining company to top it off. Then repeat every year you want to operate. Is the USA like this when it comes to starting a business? How is the gov't like vs what I described(sorry for the long winded story there btw but that's what I went through last year)
>>74734298
>Is the USA like this when it comes to starting a business?
it's worse in some ways
USA tries to please many people with many conflicting policies, which is where we get most of our economic problems
much of it is based more in ideology than practice or efficiency
>>74734660
Shit. I had hope that there was less red tape to deal with down there. I've been thinking of maybe looking at a place in the southwest in the future and hoping that it wouldn't be as bad. Mom's side of the family is from Kentucky and some in California and have considered trying to make a move in the future
>>74735117
if you really want to get started on a business here you absolutely MUST research local laws/codes
they vary so wildly and in differing extremes it will make your head spin
location location location, these days mostly so you don't get reamed by local gov. regulation
>>74734298
If $160 is too much money for you, you're going to have a bad time when it's time to pay your workers.
>>74735239
Right good point
>>74735411
The wages are not a problem. The wages=more sets of hands=more work done and production=$ to pay wages and to pay me. The 160 was one of the fees I threw out there. It's roughly $80+ For each of the permits and it starts to add up. Mainly what gets me is the huge amount of time and effort it takes to go through all the hoops. I could be working at it vs spending countless hours navigating gov't services buildings trying to get permission to work
>>74725470
I think the rule in life is that Jewing is a zero-sum game and the Jews who lost have to incite revolution in order to have a chance at a successful life. All other ethnic ties can be disregarded.
