>Japan 1000 years ago.
>Clashing warloards fight for power.
>Walk up to fortress/town/stronghold with army.
>Wait outside for enemy.
>Enemy steps outside in full force.
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
>Few years later
>European explorers arrive
>War trade starts to erupt.
>Whites bring along firearms and siege weapons.
>Honourable fighting no longer exists.
>Battles start to be fought behind walls.
>1 on 1 fighting is no longer used in battles.
Why are whites so dishonourable /pol/?
Nips had respect, pride and chivalry in war. Literally torn away by faggot tier fighting measures.
because we fight to win but we don't win anymore.
We need Trump.
>>74153882
That's why they are famous for their assassins, right?
Technology
>>74153882
>lose battle
>get butthurt
>literally ragequit
implying nips weren't just angry sore losers
Fuck off weeaboo.
>>74153882
>bow shitter
>honourable
>>74153946
Peasants killing/overthrowing the clan controlling their province tho.
I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences.
>abloobloo come out and fight me faggggg
>>74154117
>I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences.
and?
>>74154117
Ninjas were considered dishonorable for the same reason guns were: Samurai didn't like that commoners could kill them. And ninjas came about before westerners.
>>74153882
>Assassin / Shinobi
>Honour
Pick one.
>>74154117
>I've never seen a script where a warlord used assassination before foreign influences.
You sound like the type of person that says wildly wrong things, but with enough conviction that your even more retarded friends just think you're smart.
>>74153882
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
You really are clueless. This never fucking happened. NEVER. Not in ancient times, not in medieval times, not in Europe, not in Asia. It's a fucking movie trope, because it's easier to film a dozen of one on one fights than to show actual cavalry banners advancing and retreating in formation. But the truth is, that once your formation is broken, you are fucked - regardless whether you are a hoplite, legionary, knight, samurai or chevau-leger.
>>74153882
The Japanese killed civilians and used POWs as target practice there is no honour in that at all.
>>74154579
That's exactly how Greek warfare was up to the Peloponnesian War, I don't see why it might not be so in feudal Japan.
>>74153882
Fresh off the boat, from reddit, kid? heh I remember when I was just like you. Braindead. Lemme give you a tip so you can make it in this cyber sanctuary: never make jokes like that. You got no reputation here, you got no name, you got jackshit here. It's survival of the fittest and you ain't gonna survive long on 4chan by saying stupid jokes that your little hugbox cuntsucking reddit friends would upboat. None of that here. You don't upboat. You don't downboat. This ain't reddit, kid. This is 4chan. We have REAL intellectual discussion, something I don't think you're all that familiar with. You don't like it, you can hit the bricks on over to imgur, you daily show watching son of a bitch. I hope you don't tho. I hope you stay here and learn our ways. Things are different here, unlike any other place that the light of internet pop culture reaches. You can be anything here. Me ? heh, I'm a judge.. this place.... this place has a lot to offer... heh you'll see, kid . . . that is if you can handle it...
Japanese ''''''battles'''''' before the era of mass mobilization were choreographed faggy duels between lords or their retainers, and live-fire archery contests, then everyone would go home and I guess one side or the other got the rice paddy rights
>>74154722
>citation needed
>>74154579
for centuries prior to the famed Sengoku period, combat really was a series of goofy duels
Those with horses and weaponry would fight small skirmishes, be attended to by their man-servants during break time, do it again a little bit then get bored I guess and bounce. They could afford to do this because, as a seal-off society, the stakes were not terrifically high and they didn't need to develop as a people that could wholly go to war. Japanese armies, made up of levies that involved hundreds of thousands of people, with all of the modern concerns (logistics, training en mass, maneuver tactics, etc.) were a very late phenomenon.
>>74154859
donald kagan's yale lecture series
>>74154579
>>74154859
btw i don't mean 1 on 1 'duels' but they were just small setpiece battle between opposing lumps of hoplites. they'd clash, a couple would die, one side would run away and whoever remained won and that was it, war over.
Because shooting the enemy army to death from hundreds of metres away is far more effective and demoralising than 1 on 1 battles.
Having your generals take to the field was no longer viable after the gunpowder revolution.
>>74154722
because it wasn't
they'd have a few fights like that maybe at the start, maybe, but the rest was wholesale slaughter. they had no tradition of taking prisoners of war either, so survivors were either butchered or tortured to death or enslaved and worked to death. the wives and children of the losing nobles where usually killed as well.
and the main weapon of the samurai was the bow, then the spear. swords were back up and only gained prominence during the later peaceful tokugawa shogunate, when they stopped using everything else because it was peaceful.
There isn't any place for honor in war, just death.
>>74155181
do you have a source for that cause it seems retarded
>>74155054
Well yeah, your use of exactly made it sound differently.
There is no doubt, by looking at the Greek equipment, that they fought in formation.
Small forces, yes. But that is nowhere near a bunch of people just dueling it out 1 on 1.
>>74153946
they were also used as spies for information gathering, not just assasination
>>74155284
I thought the contention was about setpiece battles vs sieges.
Near-eastern warfare in the Byzantine era featured lots of dueling, though it didn't entirely determine the contest.
>>74155096
>Because shooting the enemy army to death from hundreds of metres away is far more effective and demoralising than 1 on 1 battles.
So what, its still cuck warfare
since ever it was adopted society has been going to shit because there is no place for masculinity in society that the older, honor-based fighting style demanded. If you can't get laid its because you dont understand honor and being a man.
>>74154008
>ragequit
Kek
>>74155428
No bitch its just "warfare" the distance was judged initially by the range of the weapon hence spears being long as fuck. They didnt get close to be "honorable" they got as close as they could without risk.
The gun added range
>>74154732
I wish I could into 4chan as well as you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men
>>74153882
>>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
t. /tv/
>>74153882
whites cast off the ritual nature of their warfare many years before most other civilizations, the same thing happened with the Spanish in the new world, pure efficient killing machines versus ritualized fighters that don't even aim to kill their enemy had pretty predictable results. Whites conquered the world through pure brute efficiency.
>>74156213
>Surveys of single Japanese men conducted in 2010 found that 61% of men in their 20s and 70% of men in their 30s considered themselves to be herbivores
Good luck, Japan.
>>74158390
what the fuck??
Does japan have any kind of socialistic economy? Will they try to get "immigrants" for the socialistic pyramid scheme or do the Nips have a good right wing economy?
>>74153882
The interesting thing about Japan isn't their feudal era which only attracts weebs.
What is interesting about Japan was their ability to recognize western civilization as superior and adapt to it. They bought our arms and boats, and use them to make and supplement their own.
When the UK tried to jew them out of their own goods, Japan refused to buy JewK's shit. On a massive scale. It's still the only country who industrialized under UK flooding their country with cheap shit. They went on to beat a European power, conquer swathes of Asia, and took on basically the world.
And even after they were nuked, they took American capitalism and ran with it better than America does. Still probably one of the USA's best allies.
tl;dr Feudal Japan is weebshit, industrial Japan is an interesting case study.
>>74153882
>It's the westerners
>Not the mongol invasion of kyushu
The reason they had the duel oriented combat for the samurai was to resolve conflicts without getting too high casualties, since they had relatively small populations in their territories. Losing a few thousand farmers would be a disaster for the harvest.
Didn't have that much to do with honor, it was just a necessity for their feudal rule to keep casualties down.
Also the mongolians and koreans gave them trouble way before the europeans ever did.
>>74153882
Damn, it must be sad to have fought in WW2 for the jews, and getting your country islamized by the same jews you died for 70 years ago. Good job u crooked teeth motherfuckers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bbc-is-too-christian-and-could-broadcast-muslim-prayers-to-refle/?cid=sf26316826+sf26316826
> fighting wars honorably
haha what a faggot!
>>74160172
>Austria
>Fighting wars
kek
>>74154579
The Aztecs fought like that.
>>74161397
> Britain
> Fighting wars
Top kek
>>74153882
>japan
>honorable
Those people tested their swords on peasants.
Slaughtered the enemy clans towns and use rape and torture as punishment.
they were at no form, way or shape better than the europeans in regards to morality
>>74153882
Europe is lucky Japan never decided to invade pre-gunpowder europe.
Katana>>>>>longswords
>>74161627
I said Honour not Morality.
Morality is a fairly new concept anyway.
>>74161627
this.
Nips honestly believed that you can die with honour as long as you die it right- pretty much regardless of what you did.
>>74153882
Such ignorance of culture and warfare.
No such fighting used to happen. Stop watching animes and samurai films.
Its like genuinely believing the stand offs in Westerns actually happened.
>>74161729
Meh, I don't think Katanas were anything special.
Their primary usage was to kill unarmed peasants anyway.
I'd prefer a longsword in a battle.
>Implying I know what a medieval battle is like.
>>74161731
>#notallsamuris
80% of the deaths in that period were caused by bows, european trader simply introduced superior bows to them.
also,
>implying the defender just marched out of his castle
>Ninja less honorable than samurai
/pol/ pls
>80%
Less than 20% of forces at the time had bows, and even less men able to use them effectively.
Nice try, reddit.
>>74161920
well european medieval battle was basically
>broadsword in initial conflict
>cut eachother up
>soon enough just grappling and bashing eachother to death
Katanas are very much for staying apart, remaining quick etc
>>74153882
Should we have just let them live like savages forever? Go the fuck back to Red dit
>>74153882
>honorable fighting
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
Never existed.
People cheated with better equipment, greater numbers, and surprise tactics all the time, no great empire was formed through honorable combat.
>>74162691
Try:
>Shieldwalls
>Spears
>Bashing at each other for 30 mins.
>Wall collapses on one front.
>Soldiers turn and run.
>Backstabs.
Thats when 90% of battlefield casualties happened in pretty much every pre-gunpowder conflict.
When you're in a total war, you utilize every known resource, technology and tactic to ensure you defeat your enemy. Anything short of that ensures that you are defeated by your enemy, or you defeat yourself with imaginary rules.
>>74153882
>samurai faggotry
>honourable
>>74162691
>Implying anyone but knights/elites/career mercs actually had swords
Simple spears and a shield packed into a big brick was the standard weapon of the middle ages. Later on when cavalry became more prevalent they ditched the shield and just had a longer spear (pike)
>>74153882
I love Japan which is why I'm now a #Cruzmissle.
>>74163218
ITT: Americans still butthurt that their pilots were too pussy to sacrifice themselves for a greater cause.
You'll never come back.
>>74162924
>jew
>talking about honor
>>74161729
You should stick with cuck-shitposting, much more convincing.
You realize the birth of and widespread usage of ninjas or assassins in general happened for these exact reasons you describe. Honor breeds an incentive for dishonor, one that Japan had already been exploiting long before Europeans arrived.
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans
Top kek
>Mongoloids.
>Honorable.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>74153882
>Whites bring along firearms and siege weapons.
>Honourable fighting no longer exists.
As opposed to the highly honorable jap tradition of disarming peasants then attacking them with swords while highly armored yourself.
>>74164724
>America, No Feudalism
>>74154579
>According to our manner of fighting we must first call out by name someone from the enemy ranks, and then attack in single combat. But the Mongols took no notice at all of such conventions. They rushed forward all together in a mass, grappling with any individuals they could catch and killing them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Japan
>>74165261
Please don't respond to reddit.
>>74154117
>they only fought fair
>what is the death of nobunaga
>>74165261
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is a code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood which developed between 1170 and 1220.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Japan
in 1274 and 1281
Americans,Chinese(Koreans) and other asians in Asia have never experienced Feudalism era, so they can not understand
>>74165520
>He still committed seppuku.
Still honour led.
>>74153882
>>Honourable fighting no longer exists.
It was never really honorable m8. They stole the heads from enemies other had slain so they could present it to their warlords and gain favor and shit like that. There was just as much dishonorable shit going on as in every other army.
The difference was just that their way of fighting wars sucked ass, they could not really storm the strongholds with the weapons they had at their disposal so the only thing left to them was a siege and starving out the enemy. Leaving the stronghold and attacking them just cut out all the waiting and proceeded to the inevitable.
![300px-Ronin,_or_masterless_Samurai,_lunging_forward[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3EneK0m.jpg "300px-Ronin,_or_masterless_Samurai,_lunging_forward[1].jpg")
>honoraburulu yellow man.
Fuck off, war is war.
"The Japanese are the most belligerent people around these parts. They bring artillery, many arquebusiers and pikemen. They use defensive weapons for the body (Body armor). All provided due to the action ("by the industry of", in old spanish) of the portuguese, who showed these to them, bringing harm of their souls."
-Governor of the Philippines to king Philip II of Spain on 16th of June 1582.
>>74153882
>master bait folded over a thousand times...
>>74166023
>bringing harm of their souls
What?
>>74153882
They were too busy dressing other men like girls and fucking them to do anything of importance.
You don't wage war to fight fair, I know you Britbongs know all about that. Thanks for losing that war m8s :^)
>>74153882
Didn't siege war already exist in japan . Aren't there castles built with walls and alleys made to be hard to surround and siege? Weren't ronin a thing? Lay off the anime and movies kid.
>>74153882
Nips
>Brittle swords that can't withstand a direct
>Shitty armor made from lacquered bamboo
>Undisciplined armies with poor formations
>Fighting with the same old retards
>Shitty fishing boats that can't make it through a strait
Spaniards
>Firearms
>Siege Machines
>Toledo steel rivaling modern industrial steel
>Unbreakable Tercio Formation
>Warring with different cultures for several millenia
>Giant warships capable of circumnavigation
When the Japanese actually fought the Spanish in 1582, it only took 40 men to defeat 1000 ronin samurai.
>>74154177
Subtle. Very damn subtle. Like a ninja. >>74154117
DO YOU GET THAT ANON!? HE IS SAYING WHY WOULD A SUCCESSFUL NINJA ASSASINATION BE ON RECORD?
>>74162691
Even in the >muh katana era japs were using spears as their main battle weapons, just like pretty much anywhere in the world, especially in pre-gunpowder europe.
Spears are
>cheap to make
>have superior reach
>>74153882
>"There is no honour in fighting with these (guns), however victory wipes away dishonour" ~ Some famous nip, forgot name
>>74166810
And the portuguese were defeated 2 times in a row by the chinese, what the portuguese had was just technological advancements, nothing to do with honor at all.
>>74167113
Nevermind, got the quote AND the source wrong. It's "A weapon that kills without honor, without skill, but even so, it gives power and victory. And victory wipes away dishonor" ~ Some nip in a Total War game
>>74166343
Yea, "to their souls" would be a better translation. I think its just refering to the war tech clash of the time, which brought a whole new level of destruction. (same happened in japan a few decades ago :^) )
>>74167137
Portuguese are very weak, so it's no wonder. They are the Jews of Iberia
>>74165261
Even if it happened once or twice, which it may have. It's not like someone is going to say; "Well shit you beat one of my guys, you win", not even in Japan.
The winner of that battle could expect arrows to the face.
>>74153882
They brought knives to a gun fight and you wonder why they got btfo'ed?
Britbong plz.
>>74153882
Weeaboos like you belong on a cross
>>74153882
> what is a knight?
> what is knighthood?
> what is a white shirt duel?
war were never fought 1 vs 1 but rather formation vs formation
A huge wall of shield and spears vs another one
Also, samurai and knights -> loads of munay -> better armor/weapons -> proper training ->very high chance of survival
Paesant -> spear
Other paesant - shield and axe
Paesant training = basic -> very low chance of survival
This is not an anime buddy, nor a videogame, war has never been fair.
But at least u could have seen your murderer / victim in the eyes before
>>74165563
Kamikaze wrecked those fucking mongols.
>>74167370
>implying
>>74168224
This is propaganda, delete this
>>74153882
Also nip arsenal was infinitly inferior compared to the western one
Nip had spears, bows and katanas
Shields were largely unused. Same for axes, halberds, maces, hammers etc.
This because europeans had developed a wide array of armors and tactics while the nips pretty much didnt change much during time.
A clear example is the evolution of the 1 handed sword. From the gothic to the estoc and so on.
Katana instead stayed pretty much the same
>>74153882
>Why are whites so dishonourable /pol/?
>Nips had respect, pride and chivalry in war. Literally torn away by faggot tier fighting measures.
Are you a fucking moron?
>>74153882
>it's a 'weeaboo thinks Samurai were noble warriors rather than a corrupt administrator/warrior class that brutally repressed peasents' episode
>>74168350
They had naginatas too
>>74168831
True
But my point is that western weaponry held more diversity, hence giving you more possibility to focus on certain aspect of the weapon itself (slashing properties, piercing properties, better handguard prot etc)
>>74168767
this
The 21st century is shit for everyone
Technology pussyfies everyone
>>74153882
weeb detected
>>74168988
>buying the jew blacksmith hype that having the steel bent at a slightly different curve is going to change the face of the battlefield
There's still only a few classes of melee weaponry. The sword, the spear, the axe, and the mace/hammer. Everything else is meaningless wank and the spear was the most used and most successful of them all for most of human history.
>but this flamberge is a foot longer and has serrated edges, Hans
>not buying a thousand spears for the price of 20 swords
>>74153882
Stand upon the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honour matters.
>>74153882
What a load of shit. Guns were first developed in China and the Nips got their hands on them long before they made contact with Westerners (or at least the first Western ships arrived some individuals have ventured into Europe and vice versa). The effect of firearms wasn't remotely that pronounced as the Samurai culture last for centuries after the first English ships started trading with Japan (I'm not sure if that was the first western trading I just know that the first English ship was 400 years ago because I worked at a festival for it.) and the main trade from the English side was ship design and woolen cloth and Cornish tin not guns (they took back more weapons if anything).
Honourable fighting never existed on that Battlefield. Noble duels and honourable melees were sports for civilians or at least in a civilian capacity and most famous examples, perhaps most common in the Holy Roman Empire which was practically the gun capital of Europe.
>>74169516
I just picked a random picture there and it is clearly Chinese not Japanese but it shows sword design in Asia wasn't as different to Europe as is often touted.
>>74168988
True again the spear dominated the battlefield for very long.
But about honour : before gunpowder, the one with the most shekels ( better training and equipment ) won
After gunpowder : a paesant now can kill a fully trained soldier
Hence came democracy
>>74153882
>>Whites bring along firearms
Are you fucking retarded?
>>74153882
>>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1
>>74169444
Javik please go
>>74161501
and they lost against 500 spaniards
>>74169516
The difference between Chinese firearms and Portuguese firearms was about the same as the difference between an 18th century musket and an AR-15.
The Japanese were absolutely affected by the introduction of the arquebus, prior to that they had never used firearms in meaningful quantities on the battlefield, afterwards they were literally producing more guns every year than any country in Europe, and developed sights, powder-shrouds and fucking rifled barrels on their own.
Chinese guns were literally tubes on the end of sticks lit by hand. It wasn't until the Muslims got the technology that they even started to be effective as actual weapons, and it wasn't until the white man got it that they turned into viable killing machines.
>>74169516
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/a-tale-of-two-islands-england-japan-and-400-years-of-shared-history-8646189.html
Just checking my facts brought me to an article that completely rekz your shit OP. Even mentions the influence of guns.
>>74158390
>>74159252
>implying this isn't the actual answer
Economies are not MEANT to grow indefinitely. If you don't allow them to recess appropriately they WILL crash.
I'd say Japan is doing the smart thing. They're going through a tough time now and having a better future rather than fucking everything up with artificial growth and suffering even worse later.
>>74169726
Watch the documentary samurai head-hunters. The title might strike you as a little dramatic, but it goes a long way to show that chivalrous behavior in Japan, as in Europe, was on a spectrum. Also, the main character is a peasant who becomes a samurai after killing one in battle if I remember correctly.
Hell, English longbowmen were helping their dismounted knights to fight the French at Agincourt.
>>74169778
This idea is indeed false. The entire army fights together. Your thrust forces him to slip his front leg back, but at the same time your friend's spear catches him in the neck, etc. Entire units or even lines would be going through footwork routines and maneuvers if trained well enough. Many european pike militias (and in ancient times, shield and spear units like hoplites or barbarian celts/germans) were world-class going up against Romans, Persians, etc.).
My fencing teacher's indonesian silat master says that something as simple as a blow against a certain part of the enemy's shield would be used to uncover a target for one of your mates to exploit. Talk about surgical precision.
>>74155428
That is actually an impressively accurate statement.
>>74155723
You dense fucker. The gun added much more than range, it added the necessity for dishonourable tactics.
>>74155723
>>74170528
>The gun added range.
I fucking seriously hate how fucking stupid /pol/ is sometimes. Early guns did not increase range and were notoriously inaccurate (which is EXACTLY WHY PEOPLE STILL USED RIFLES IN FORMATION UNTIL SPIRALED RIFLING BECAME A THING).
They increased penetration power. Armor was no longer effective against them.
And if you think it doesn't take honor to stand in a goddamn formation, against ANOTHER formation shooting back, then you've never been shot at.
>>74155428
Maybe it was better overall for humanity when we had a champion class deciding disputes, but that only ever happened in some cultures in specific time periods. That wasn't really warfare at all. It's taken a lot of time for us to realize the amount of war's potential that we have today, and most nations still limit themselves with agreements to not go all out.
Then again, if you read some medieval accounts, there was room for some shady shit whilst keeping up the impression of following the rules of war.
>>74154579
Middle age chivalry fighting was 1 on 1 though
>>74170708
>blah blah blah
No, it fucking wasn't. Middle age war was waged with bows and was primarily siege warfare.
>/pol/ buys into the romanticized warfare meme
>>74168224
Gj portugal
>>74155428
>He thinks "honor-based" fighting was the predominate warfare.
That's a funny way of spelling, "Shooting them with a bow from far away."
>>74153882
>Nips had respect, pride and chivalry in war
No.. They had marsh and swamp and small fields where large unit tactics were not possible on the scale that mainland armies were used to. This forced a warfare style that became very 1 on 1.
Look at china and Korea. There military tactics developed pretty much the same as ours. Japan is the only one that is different.
>>74163068
Swords became more and more available during the middle ages. In the high middle ages, low-class battlefield participants were more than capable of buying a decent sword.
Going back to longbowmen, they were payed decently and very often had a sword and buckler on their belts along with their mallets in case they were needed in a melee.
>>74162691
Although I assume that this is bait, from every, and I mean every remaining european fighting manual, we know that their focus was on NOT muscling their weapons around and bashing opponents, but rather maintaining as much presence of mind as possible while using weapons to their maximum effect at every range and exerting the minimum amount of effort. A lot of it comes down to biomechanics, ie swinging things with your body more than your arms, redirecting/going around force and evading blows.
Armor, even full plate, was treated as insurance in case you got hit. Period.
>>74154008
>naginata and yumi superior to anything in Europe
>knightaboos go on about muh katana lindybeige low hanging fruit because it's the most iconic sword in modern history thanks to kurosawa superior thousand folded film
>>74165520
He deserved to die and lost the civil war, he was killed by Another guy.
Tokugawa won in the end, all others refused to fight him and were retarded.
Oh and yes, the sengoku period is WAY overplayed in games and history, the period Before that was way bloodier and far better to ren-enact than some dumbass civil war
>>74153882
>Walk up to fortress/town/stronghold with army.
>Wait outside for enemy.
>Enemy steps outside in full force.
>Battles take place in thousands of 1 on 1 battles between rival clans.
lol
simply lol desu senpai
>>74171065
>Armor, even full plate, was treated as insurance in case you got hit. Period.
Armor was mostly to defend against arrows, such as it could. Up until full plate armor (and even then) someone driving a lance or a direct sword blow into you would very likely pierce your defenses. So, you're right, naturally. But its original intention was to defend against bowmen.
And, for the record, it wasn't a 100% defense. Bowmen of the past trained on bows with a 100lb draw or more, and arrows weren't "lobbed" like you see in Braveheart, but shot level usually and right at you. Most armor, for a very long period of time was a multi-layered woolen quilt and plates. Even though it might stop the arrow from piercing you and killing you it still felt like someone taking a weighted baseball bat against you.
>Which is why bowmen were often decisive and the most important soldier on the battlefield.
>>74154906
Haha no, the sengoku period is a joke, Before that, now thats violent.
Oh and they also fought against non japanese aswell for once.
>>74153882
One on One ceased to be viable during the failed Mongol invasions.
>>74171495
Leather armor is useless, but chain armor can defend against some sword blows so you wont get cut or stabbed.
Seven Samurai is pure kino tbeeh.
>>74154008
You talking about Singapore in 42 or when the Japs BTFO your Force Z in 41, Paki-host?
>>74153882
We like wining.
Be honbru as much you want. I force my will on you in the end.
The point of a war is to force you will on some one not to spill blood like retards.
Why are asians so stupid when it comes to war?
>>74154117
>assassinations
>made official records
Wew lad
>>74171599
>chain armor
Literally what? The real defense of chain armor was the padding underneath. The chain itself did little except to stop the initial piercing of the arrow and weapon. Chain by itself was useless. Imagine being hit by a bit piece of metal wearing nothing but chain armor and no padding. It break bones if it didn't cut you. Even with the padding you're likely to get very bruised or worse. Same for the bows of the past. It's literally a chunk of metal on a shaft fired from a bow with a 100lb+ draw. And, defending on the location, it might STILL piece the armor.
>>74161731
The two terms are inclusive really.
>>74161627
They apprently did live experiements on people too, truly gruesome. Genocide is also in there (China)
>>74171873
>The chain itself did little except to stop the initial piercing
Chain did fuck all to stop piercing because the loops would split apart. It stopped cutting.
>>74172066
>It stopped cutting.
lol no This isn't D&D.
>>74153882
Because whites are supreme beings, there is no honour in killing. Only whites have what it takes to explore the universe, you wide-eyed monkey don't.
It's funny how you're both souless and not souless enough when it is needed.
>>74171495
Where the hell did you get this? Padded armor and mail helps very much to reduce the chance of being injured by any weapon, turning what would be a severed limb into a bad bruise or broken bone, that is if the user was hit dead on instead of while evading a blow and being hit marginally. Real period mail has been found to be impervious to a pin going through it. Do you think that a sword edge is going to cut through interwoven steel backed by padding easily? Do you think that a spatulate sword point, so common during the heyday of mail, is going to go through it? I'm not trying to say that armor never failed, but if you read the manuals the emphasis is always about going around the armor and striking points of weakness unless you specifically have a crushing weapon. Even padded cloth armor is quite capable of resisting blows. I recommend watching the youtube videos on Sanatan Shastar Vidya (specifically the swordsmanship ones) to see what I mean about going around armor if you don't want to spend time going through european manuals and watching some of Thegn Thrand's weapon/armor tests.
None of the sources that I've read mention that armor was mainly to defend against arrows, and you really ought to write a PhD dissertation on how bowmen really were the decisive force on the battlefield, because nobody's arguing for your position except in specific armies in specific periods.
>>74172191
>There's no damage if it doesn't cut!
I'll be honest. I stopped reading in the second sentence after you implied this.
I'm done talking to /pol/ about things that take actual research and thinking.
>>74172291
I didn't say that you fucking memer. Read the first two sentences about broken bones and bad bruises again.
>>74172291
>>74159638
In my mostly ignorant observations of Japanese history, it seems that they have been adapting culture into their own cultural psyche since ancient China.
>>74170644
>And if you think it doesn't take honor to stand in a goddamn formation, against ANOTHER formation shooting back, then you've never been shot at.
Thats completely irrelevent to our discussion, we were talking about guns vs non guns...
Modern wars are fought with artillery, Biological weapons and stuff. Its all about efficiency and honour doesnt have a place to fit in there most of the time.
Its not strength and skill (honourable because its fair game really.)
Comapred to the gun age where its tech, resources and efficiency.
You dont stand up and front you shoot from behind cover always. Although you would regularly have to go in to enemy areas where there may or may not be some desperate remaining soldiers with guns.
>>74172502
>He still thinks artillery is the primary means of destruction/defeating the enemy.
That's a funny way to spell, "Armor," (not the fucking body armor), "Air support," and, "Naval Barrage."
>>74172291
Swords couldn't pierce through plate mail, except in very rare cases(very lucky impaling strikes with very big swords and a lot of force). A sword swing couldn't bring enough force to hurt the people in plate mail, except if they hit them on the head with a lot of force.
What was used for armor was mauls, flails and maces. As well as polearms(mace type ones, not cutting ones)/spears and javelins. Basically every weapon, except the sword could hit the platemail hard enough to pierce it or just hit the user.
>>74173028
>he still thinks swords were primarily used to cut
>he still thinks swords were used against other knights
The lance was the preferred weapon of the knight, not he sword. Why do I have the feeling you're imagining this shit and thinking it up on the fly from comic books and movies?
>>74172704
Artillery is better for just destroying cities, artillery shells cost way less than any naval rocket or any air bomb. You can't just fucking off artillery like that, artillery brings fear into the heart of enemies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaEWJVWiWMQ
>>74173198
What does that have to do with my post, stop changing the topic, we're not discussing what the fucking knights preferred to fight with, but rather if swords cut/pierced through plate mail, which they didn't. You dumb assfaggot.
>>74173434
I'm not. Everything I said was 100% true. Knights preferred to wrestle each other and capture each other alive, to later ransom (as knights were typically nobility). Swords were reserved for unarmored opponents.
And they could very easily pierce plate mail. It's YOU that keeps fucking bringing up the entirely one-dimensional fucking argument of, "BUT MUH SLASHING!" like an autistic fucking retard when the fucking debate has been underway for a while now on MULTIPLE FUCKING SUBJECTS ABOUT IT THAT DON'T JUST INCLUDE CUTTING YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER.
>>74173434
>>74173623 again.
And to follow up, because you're that fucking stupid, metallurgy of the past was not up to the same standards of today. I can already fucking tell you're confusing steel to today and iron of yesterday and the goddamn differences between them.
>>74173198
>>he still thinks swords were primarily used to cut
In fucking which century, because before XIV they were used for mainly cutting.
>>74174595
And you would be fucking dead.
>He doesn't know about thrusting.
>He doesn't know about half-swording.
>He doesn't know about sword-assisted grappling.
>>74173623
>Knights preferred to wrestle each other and capture each other alive
This meme again. Do you fucking thing that they would do horse MMA with guy who can just put a dagger in your face or knock you down off horse when you are doing Muscular men wrestling 3?
>And they could very easily pierce plate mail
Thats a whole new level of retardation
>>74174595
Swords are even now used for cutting. This dumb american thinks that throughout the middle ages only knights on horses with lances existed.
He also forgets that at least half of the sword types are curved swords.
Oh, what is this, ameridumb, is this a sword from your own civil war. If its main purpose was not to cut, why is it curved then, care to explain that?
>itt: autists who think the entire army was samurai
No, the 5 pairs of cunts having an "honorubu" duel were the samurai. The rest of the army were either untrained peasants stabbing each other with sharp sticks or slightly trained peasants stabbing each other with sticks from horse back.
>>74170644
>Early guns did not increase range and were notoriously inaccurate
This is meme invented by britbongs by people who never held bow in their hands.
>>74174776
>thrusting
>pirecing throught plate armour or even mail with padding
>half swording
Used for better grip in aiming towards weak points in armor, also
>before XIVc
>sword-assisted grappling
>pretend you have the time for this in a actuall battle
>get stabbed because you have left your arms occupied
>before XiVc
>>74175012
>>74175123
Now THIS is retarded. First you want to lock the argument down to, "BUT ONLY TALK ABOUT CUTTING!" even though the debate clearly wasn't just about cutting because you two had some weird autistic flare up...
THEN you want to argue about the CIVIL fucking WAR (way passed the medieval era and everything THAT implies), something we haven't even TOUCHED ON yet.
Seriously. Get mental help. You need it.
>>74175428
>but muh time in battle! Grabbing is too hard! You can only cut people!
Jesus Christ you're retarded.
>>74175497
>"BUT ONLY TALK ABOUT CUTTING!"
Never even said that. You are this faggot who thinks you would be able to pirece an armor of guy who actively defends himself.
>>but muh time in battle! Grabbing is too hard! You can only cut people!
>try to wrestle on a horse
>impossible, because horses are constantly moving
>get knocked down by some other guy anyway
>try to wrestle on foot
>get stabbed in weak spot by some other guy in formation, because you are not defending yourself
>>74153882
Actually Japanese had firearms and siege weapons since 1200 thanks to the Chinese and mongols, just not to the degree that they did when Euros came.
>>74153882
it was more entertaining to watch japs shoot each other, since they couldn't see down the gun sights
>>74176344
Where does this meme come from? Mongols were good archers precisely because of their eyes.
Asian eyes are literally an adaptation to see better in any environment, whether it is the windy steppe, the high and bright mountain tops of the Himalayas, the deserts and sandstorms of the Gobi or the reflected light environment of the Arctic.
It's like a shutter on a camera, it actually helps you see better and focus better.
>>74175497
God I fucking love this website
>>74171495
A sword will not penetrate an armor plate in any circumstance.
The only way a sword can hurt an armored opponent is by piercing a joint seam, or by bashing them with the hilt.
>>74170708
>What are mass cavalry charges
>>74153882
This is you
>ooga boogo Grog no like spear chucker or bowman he is women and afraid of me
>Why no one club each other anymore?
>Fucking bowfags
Japs also sucked at warfare storms saved them from the mongol rape train and they just killed eachother for a few hundred years doing shit all until Europeans actually let them unite into a centralized nation though the use of superior technology and troops
>>74162691
>Katanas are very much for staying apart, remaining quick etc
>Implying you can remain quick when your fucking pig iron sword is on the verge of breaking with every swing
Anything other than fistfighting is cowardly and dishonorable.
>>74177621
False, they had previously had a united country under a Chinese model of empire. The wars following the empire were civil wars of military leaders and nobles deciding who would control the emperor until the establishing of the shogunate started military dictatorship. The warring states period came from the shogunate's powers waning and land holders asserting their independence. Portuguese guns certainly made it easier to militarily unite the country, but reunification rested on previously held Japanese foundations of central shogunate authority.
>>74178937
Exactly what I said
CENTRALIZED NATION NOT SOME SHITTY MEDIEVAL CHINESE CRAP VASSAL THING GOING ON
With better technology and shit you can be a lot more centralized and not rely on having loyal servants as stuff
>>74177621
This is what I think when /pol/ complains about niggers ganging up on white guys in 1v1 fights. Honor is a caveman concept and has no place in a street fight.
>>74179344
That all took place during the European Renaissance when Europe still had vassal servant style governments.
>>74176674
Look at this gook in full damage control mode
Does it bother you that all Asian women beg to submit to the Big White Cock (BWC) or that South Korea is the plastic surgery capital of the world because so many of your kind are so desperate to assimilate to the higher state of being that is white?
>>74179862
>muh dick
OP here.
Ha, ha-ha, haha. Ha.
That is all.
Thank you /pol/
>>74166810
>Fighting spaniards in cqc
this is the equivalent of walking naked and un-armed into an army, you're going to lose.
