"if jesus was alive he would be a socialist/communist"
how do we counter this? dam
>>74138581
With a cross and some nails
Jesus believed that only God has true authority. That isn't socialist and it definitely isn't communist. Communists hate religion.
>>74138675
fpbp
Jesus was against government-enforced welfare and redistribution because it's only ethical if it's voluntary.
>Stealing is wrong
No communist ever said that.
.
"Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's."
Mark 12:17
Government programs are wasteful, like charities that only get 10% of the money to their cause.
>>74138581
If Jesus was alive you'd be in hell for practicing sodomy.
>>74138581
The parable of the seed and the sower makes me think he would have been a libertarian.
"If you teach a man to fish _______"
There ya go
>>74138581
Jesus never talked about forced charity. He only talked about voluntary charity, on an individual basis. Socialism/communism are forced, not voluntary. Saying Jesus was a socialist/communist just ignores the part that is inconsistent with the comparison, as if ignoring it makes it go away.
>>74138581
>how do we counter this?
If you don't believe in Jesus, then the point is moot.
Checkmate fedora niggers.
>>74138581
Jesus literally preached dictatorship (worship and submissioin to God), and this dictator practices welfare (if you ask, so shall you recieve)
>>74138781
no choice is voluntary
for example when a child consents to working in some textile factory sweatshop he is forced into it by the conditions he is in (if he doesn't work there he will starve)
>>74138781
this, Jesus also wouldn't participate in the government swindle, because he believed that people should govern themselves, according to a law that transcend the laws of any nation
>>74138581
"you're missing the point of jesus' message. to be a christian- giving to charity, feeding the hungry, clothing the poor- is to do a good deed in an otherwise evil world. if we were to legislate these things, we would be defeating the purpose charity. we should accept the world as it is and not as we would have it. this is the path to peace"
>>74138581
HOW DARE YOU SHOP ANZU DELETE THIS NOW REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Socialists worship money, they see reality through economic lens.
Luke 12:22-31 Jesus says ’ “Do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothing…"
>>74138781
Jesus would be in favour of Hitler's national socialism actually. He says in his speeches that the Germans value is in how he helps his brethren. It's pretty much the exact values Jesus espouses concentrated for a specific people
>yeah, the guy that flipped over tax tables and shit really was pro government
>render what is Cesar to Cesar
>this means any tax rate is fine
>>74138581
Jesus told you to share your wealth with the poor...
not threaten your neighbor with violently enforced imprisonment or theft if he doesn't share his.
>>74138581
Going by the Bible, he'd be a libertarian communist, an ideology that falls apart quicker than the Bible itself does.
Jesus openly opposed the Pharisees, the communist Jewish Zionist who ruled isreal
>>74138581
well, first of all, Jesus is alive. But, more importantly, if you read the Bible carefully you'll discover that Jesus was very much into a form of government best described as the absolute monarchy of a libertarian theocracy. He was crucified because people can't handle the responsibility of that, they needed somebody to blame for their sins, that somebody was God, and since they could not kill God, they killed Jesus in God's place because he's the next best thing.
>>74138788
>communism equals stealing!!1
nice meme bro
>>74138581
>communism was know for it's theocratic rule
WUT
>>74138581
Jesus believed in giving charity and helping the less fortunate. He did not mean that the government should force people at gunpoint to be charitable to the poor.
Communism/socialism is really not Christian like at all. People just think "hurrr bible says to love they neighbor" and suddenly think that's a communist value.
"I'm atheist."
>>74138581
God hates multiculturalism.
See the Tower of Babel.
the idea of using Jesus to promote a fallen human political system is just disgusting. certainly Jesus view on government would be much better and completly different from anything we could come up with.
>>74139062
Eso es chilango de mierda
>>74139021
>he'd be a libertarian communist
Giving commands.. very libertarian
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15-31)
>>74138581
By divorcing yourselves from a kike religion.
I'M NOT A KIKE!!!!!
>Dear Yahweh,
>Today a filthy PAGAN refused to obey the one true god of the jews like me! I couldn't believe it! I tried to read the 1/3 of the bible that wasn't jewish, but I ran into that part about that fucking commie rabbi talking about how everyone had to keep kosher and was babbling about tits and jottles or something - I think the faggot's name is Jepis or something. Who cares? Thank god I finally ran into Paul. Now that's a REAL non-jew! He was only born a jew, but then he converted so it's cool. Well, that was my day. Thanks for everything and please don't let those filthy fucking fedoras remove the 10 commandments from the courthouse - I bet the jews are behind that! Amen
>>74139062
>>communism equals stealing!!1
How are you going to create welfare in a socialist society?
You steal from the rich and distribute to the "poor"
There is no pretty word, it's stealing.
"can you show me in the bible were Jesus commands his disciples to seize the property of the bourgeois?"
>>74138931
Starving is a choice. So is going off into the woods to forage for food.
Or they could try to perform some other service that's less dangerous.
You aren't an unwitting victim of your circumstances. There is always a choice. Most people who are trapped are in their situation because they can't see a way out, not because there isn't one.
>>74139318
jesus woud tax the rich and give to the poor
>>74138581
>Communism
>Religion
Pick one
>>74138581
>how do we counter this? dam
You can't.
It's true.
>>74139247
>if ye love me do X
>if ye love me do X or I will force you to do it
Very different things. In a libertarian society you can still tell people what to do, you can still say 'you SHOULD do X' or 'you SHOULD do Y' but you can't say 'you MUST do X' or 'you MUST do Y' followed by 'or else'
>>74139311
Be careful. G-d enjoys the smell of burning flesh, young one.
>>74139349
Tax the rich is to take their money.
I don't care if your intentions are good or bad, the word for taking the money by force is stealing.
>I don't know anything about the bible, but here's my opinion and shit.
Jesus literally told the disciples to sell the clothes off their backs in order to buy weapons to protect their precious jewgold. Luke 22
>>74138581
I don't think sharing because you were forced gives you any brownie points at the gate
>>74139387
In a libertarian society the notion of commands is irrelevant since everything is relative and not obligatory.
Go back to Redit.
Thanks.
>>74138581
"who cares, jesus was a cunt"
>>74138581
stalin proved that communism and even atheism are not necessarily degenerate.
>>74138581
You don't because it's true. Immediately after his death his followers lived as proto-communists, forgoing private property and (fuck, it's too nighttime for typing).
There's even a story where a guy sells some shit to share the money eith thr Christian community and he dies because he wanted to keep some for himself.
The teachings of Jesus are pretty left-wing, and modern progressivism is basically secular Christianity without the icky God stuff.
Any right-winger ought to see this.
>>74138581
Catholic Church handled this topic like 1,000 ears ago.
Personal charity is virtuous, state enforced charity is not.
>>74139125
This exactly. Forcing people to be charitable is up there with what the Pharisees did.
>>74138581
Jesus never forced someone to share. He only encouraged.
>>74139349
I'm not so sure, he told a rich man who wanted to follow him to sell his property and give the money to the poor. But that was a CHOICE at no point does Jesus demand charity with the authority of the state.
>>74139666
secular Christianity is centered on the idea of progression, which is contrary to the Catholic Church
>>74138931
>no choice is voluntary
kill yourself, this is a completely untenable position
>>74138581
Jesus is alive. He is God full-time in eternity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_against_Communism
>>74139349
Wrong.
Jesus didn't make any of the bankers give anything of theirs up.
>>74139527
No. You can respect people, you can love people and trust their opinions, trust they know better (if you CHOOSE). That means if they said 'You should do this to be a better person and/or have a better life' it is not irrelevant to everyone. Sure it might be irrelevant to you, but not everyone. Just because you don't have to do something doesn't mean it's irrelevant.
>>74139470
Did they do it? How many of the disciples went down fighting?
>>74139432
That's alright, I like fire more than either of us like you.
>>74138581
>how do we counter this? dam
Yes, he would be a socialist. A National Socialist.
>b-but i'm too afraid to come out as national socialist
>b-but national socialism is tooo radicaaal for meeee
>b-but . . . .
Kill yourself.
>>74138581
I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't be okay with any of the communist regimes that have existed, considering, you know, how many millions of executions they are responsible for.
He was all about going on your OWN journey, living humbly on your OWN terms. As far as I remember he never forcefully took a rich person's property and redistributed it to the destitute.
This argument is dumb as fuck.
>>74138581
w...we c..c..can't
>>74138720
Socialism isn't giving to or helping others..It's giving to the government and going trough corrupt and ineffective bureaucracy and maybe it will help others.
If you're a good christian you can always donate your money to places you see fit and really help people, instead of ending up in useless overpaid goverment workers
>>74139868
Funny how the new Pope is doing the opposite
The Catholic Church was a mistake. If only I could go back in time and stop Constantine....
2 Corinthians 9:7 ESV
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
>>74138581
Jesus was all about charity. Socialism and communism are based on stealing. These people are not robin hood; they're the sheriff.
The Gentle Carpenter only turns the other cheek to grab another can of whoop ass.
>>74139915
Your opinion on this subject is irrelevant because you fail to understand simple logic
OBEY = You give up your own will and act according to the order someone gave you. it's contrary to Free will
Contrary to free will = can't be libertarian.
>>74138931
he choose to believe that, he didnt believe God is the one who give you food to survive
>>74138581
He didn't talk about political system of states.
Also
>communism
>Religion
>>74139966
The point is that Jesus is the ultimate source of that hippie Marxist bullshit that spawned many of the horrors of the 20th century.
Marx himself probably wouldn't have like the gulags and mass executions, but all of that was a natural and logical conclusion to his ideology.
>>74139725
>>74139690
>>74139888
Whip it good.
>>74138581
easy
Jesus never existed
>>74138581
Communists promote atheism. The only way to true salvation and paradise (God) is through the son. Communists believe they can create a worldly heaven without need for forgiveness or anything else if only we re-educated all those pesky religious people and people with more than 20 dollars in their wallet.
>>74138581
>how do we counter this?
We don't. It's true.
>>74140201
>being this much of a retard
>>74140201
Underrated
>>74140181
>The point is that Modern "Christianity" is the ultimate source of that hippie Marxist bullshit that spawned many of the horrors of the 20th century.
Luther and protestant reformation speaking...
>>74140228
>>74138581
This.
I can't think of any New Testament passages that are specific enough to be called socialist/communist.
Jesus was very anti-corruption, anti-greed and in favor of charity, but he wasn't particular about governments.
He told his disciples to pay their taxes to the Romans even though every Jew in Israel thought Caesar was pure evil. He and his followers were communal, but they did so under every other kind of government.
He once told a disciple to go fishing and when he caught the fish, it would have a coin in its mouth to help them pay the temple tax. He could multiply bread and fish out of thin air. His life wasn't exactly something you could build a government or economic system around, but a personal morality, sure.
>>74140244
The historicity of jesus is unproven. All proofs turned out to be medieval forgeries. John the baptist is mentioned in historical books, Jesus is not.
>>74138581
have you read the bible?.. he says that all those parties are runned by the same satanists who have the same goal (to enslave human race).. and yes, they are the fucking jews, that's why jews are in the left, in the right, in middle, in everywhere, they supports every partie
>>74140181
Exactly.
There's nothing really wrong with the idea of Marxism, except the fact that its implementation by human beings is impossible.
I suppose you could say Jesus taught a version of divine Marxism, because only a completely infallible God could possibly accomplish the type of utopia Marxists think they can achieve.
>>74138581
"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars"
/Thread
>>74140343
oh wow...
>>74140228
Is this real?
>>74140292
I was raised Protestant but the I've always liked something about the Catholics. Even they seem to be getting more cucked though.
>>74140141
>Making suggestions for a better life
>Not libertarian
I think you'll find you don't understand the idea of libertarianism and you revert straight back to
>everyone I don't like is literally Redit
As soon as someone disagrees with you. Disregarded.
>>74140325
oh god the autism is insane
i can only assume the guy was catfishing and ruined it because once thye met he would of been caught
>>74140200
He didn't force them to give up their shekels, only told them to GTFO from the temple.
>>74138581
Straycat/10, would choke and beat the shit of her then maybe give her a soft warm bath!
>>74140343
>All proofs turned out to be medieval forgeries
Like the manuscripts of Josephus (First Century)
>Russian education
>>74140343
lenin get out
>>74140424
Yes.. was a larger story last year.
>>74140048
This has been my thoughts on the matter for a while,
If people are not willing to help the less fortunate themselves they have no right to ask the state to relieve them of their guilt for it.
>>74138581
If I point a gun to your head and tell you stop sinning.... Are you really saved?
"Render unto Caesar" confirms that Christ didn't give a flying fuck about earthly matters of state.
>>74138581
Well then it's a good thing I don't worship some 2,000 year old kike.
>>74140201
I don't believe Jesus existed either, just a sort of ideal for humans to strive toward. But because so many people do and have to hear this retarded argument, it's worth discussing.
>>74138581
"if jesus was alive he would beat your lazy ass"
>>74140360
>I suppose you could say Jesus taught a version of divine Marxism, because only a completely infallible God could possibly accomplish the type of utopia Marxists think they can achieve.
It's in Jesus' very own teachings. Man cannot create his own salvation. Communists constantly mistake Christ's communal ministry with communism. But communism preaches a paradise in THIS world, and denies ALL kings. Christ preaches a Kingdom of God. A state ruled by God. Not very communist.
If any religious figure from the bible would support communism, it'd be the devil. Sweet tempting words of "fairness" tied with a complete denial of the need for salvation.
>>74140455
>suggestions
Jesus said "Obey my commandments" not "my suggestions"
Command = obey, authoritative , not optional.
Your level of autism is really disturbing
>>74140484
How about you religious nutter get out.
>>74140325
>blowing a chance at a 3some and skeeting over two hoes for MAGA
hide that power level next time anon...
>not making them feel your burn
>>74140501
Not only that, but forcing a population to give more and more money to grow a larger and larger overbearing government is EXACTLY what Jesus was fighting Rome for.
Ultimately, a government that continues to steal more and more wealth from the people to grow bigger and more oppressive is one that is evil.
OP, this is really an easy argument to defeat.
>>74140414
>presented with facts
>oh wow...
Any real historian knows Jesus' existence isn't absolutely sure
>>74138581
[Citation Needed]
I say he's was an anarchist.
>>74138581
True Christianity is conservative.
Pic related
>>74140528
WE
>>74140445
The false Catholic Church you see today under Evil Francis is something people should stay away from it.
>>74140588
don't get mad with God, accept Christ as your only lord and be saved!
>>74140651
Youre a fucking retard.
>>74140528
Eternal God*
>>74140325
What am I even reading
>>74140200
>>74140468
This.
>>74140729
Says the person who thinks he's a special snowflake and life exists only on Earth and argues facts with muh feelings
>The Christ myth theory is the proposition that Jesus never existed, or that if he did, he had virtually nothing to do with the founding of Christianity and the accounts in the gospels
>The theory enjoyed brief popularity in the Soviet Union, where it was supported by Sergey Kovalev, Alexander Kazhdan, Abram Ranovich, Nikolai Rumyantsev, Robert Wipper and Yuri Frantsev.
>Kazhdan
>Ranovich
>>74140872
MUH SCIENCE ONE DAY WILL FIND LIFE OUTSIDE EARTH
Call me when they do mate.
>>74140360
If you believe that "equality" and egalitarianism is the most important and ultimate goal of all human societies, I suppose so.
Most people on the right tend to value strength, success, and ambition as virtues unto themselves, and not just as means to an end. Hierarchy is viewed as either being inevitable, desirable, or both.
Look up master versus slave morality.
>>74140872
>dat projection
Funny cause you're the only one arguing with conjecture. I have no feelings except disgust for faggots like you.
Secular or not, Christ existed.
>>74139026
This.
>https://americanvision.org/5681/libertarianism-vs-theocracy-is-libertarianism-a-christian-political-philosophy/
>>74139333
Remind us again how you chose the specific parents you were born to. Or the country you live in or the color of your skin or how the name you were given when you were born was your choice. Each of our lives is chuck full of things that are outside of one's own control that have a direct bearing on your outcome as a human being. Being human is to make the most of this.
>>74140962
>Abram Ranovich
Abram Borisovich Ranovich (real surname Rabinovich)
>Ranovich supported the Christ myth theory compatible with materialistic Marxist–Leninist approach of his times
>>74140325
>blew out the chance of a threesome
fucking faggot
>>74140651
Tons of historians are Christians.
This is not to mention Christians in fields of Science.
Stephen Barr (born 1953): Physicist who worked at Brookhaven National Laboratory and contributed papers to Physical Review as well as Physics Today. He also is a Catholic who writes for First Things and wrote Modern Physics and Ancient Faith. He teaches at the University of Delaware.[213]
John D. Barrow (born 1952): English cosmologist who did notable writing on the implications of the Anthropic principle. He is a United Reformed Church member and Christian deist. He won the Templeton Prize in 2006. He once held the position of Gresham Professor of Astronomy.[214][215]
Gerald B. Cleaver (born ????): Professor in the Department of Physics at Baylor University and head of the Early Universe Cosmology and Strings (EUCOS) division of Baylor's Center for Astrophysics, Space Physics & Engineering Research (CASPER). His research specialty is string phenomenology and string model building. He is linked to BioLogos and among his lectures are "“Faith and the New Cosmology."[216][217]
Guy Consolmagno (born 1952): American Jesuit astronomer who works at the Vatican Observatory.
George Coyne (born 1933): Jesuit astronomer and former director of the Vatican Observatory.
Manuel García Doncel, born in 1930, Spanish Jesuit physicist, formerly Professor of Physics at Universidad de Barcelona.
Here are just a few physicists and astronomers.
>>74139810
Saying it's untenable means it's not defendable. While it can still be argued that free will is an illusion. Not saying it is am illusion. But untenable isn't the word you want here.
>>74141118
While you're correct, plenty of people have fled oppression to make better lives for themselves in other countries, while places in Africa and what not are simply too stupid and lazy.
>>74140141
God is all about obedience to a specific set of laws and codes of conduct. He would be giving us freewill to test whether or not we are acting for ourselves or according to his law.
>>74140141
That's why God gives you a choice. You don't have to do what he says. It's just a bad idea if you don't.
>>74140552
How can you say such stupid things?
Atheists astound me. "Hurr you Christians are so retarded and illogical." Do you understand the stupidity of that statement? Christ Jesus and his life changed the world more radically than any other social movement in the history of the world. Thousands of people saw his works and is recorded by all kinds of different historians.
It's so fucking hilarious to see you call us idiots, but say the most convoluted bullshit in the world.
Whether you believe in his dinivnity or not isn't the point. The point is you're ignorant as fuck if you believe he never existed at all.
>>74140141
This can be refuted easily.
Once we understand what God wants for us and choose to live that way, we are still carrying out our free will. We have chosen to adhere to what God asks of us, He has not forced us.
>>74141428
And some would argue the reason for their laziness and inability to create a structured society would be their genetic makeup. As of yet we don't have the will to voluntarily change that.
>>74141745
I understand your frustration, but you could have said all of that in a kind way.
>>74141880
I'm genetically predisposed to be an alcoholic, but I'm not.
They are genetically predisposed to be lazy, but they don't have to be. It's a choice.
>>74141745
Not him but just going to say.
Speaking as an ex-mormon things don't have to be real for them to have a profound effect on you.
Religion may just be the only thing that keeps half the world sane. They don't let it go because they need it to make sense of it all.
>>74142024
Again, the divinity of Christ is beside the point of what I'm trying to say.
>>74138581
Jesus was a god I don't think political views apply to him since she could literally do anything
>>74141948
Surely /pol/ isn't saying niggers are ONLY predisposed to be lazy? What about the significantly lower IQ or all their other problems?
>thou shall not steal
>socialism
>>74142169
I'm sure blacks are predisposed to be a lot of things, just mentioned laziness for arguments sake
>>74142079
Divinity (as in being like a god) and being real altogether are two different things bro.
>>74142024
As an ex-agnostic I must disagree. Religion has power, because those who worship Christ receive guidance and wisdom, if they truly seek his ways and his understanding.
Christ is powerful because he is God.
>>74140686
Unfortunately nobody practices real Christianity.
Is taxation stealing if the money was made by exploiting aka stealing from workers?
What is true justice? What does a man deserve simply by existing and what does the whole society deserve?
What is human life worth? What is natural? Is natural order justice?
Yeah? Well too bad Jesus is dead lmao
>>74142277
Youre completely misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.
The person I was speaking to said he didn't exist at all, which is utter nonsense.
"Fuck Jesus"
>>74142368
>nobody
There are plenty of real Christians in the world. People can't practice PERFECT Christianity, but that's the point of Christ's sacrifice.
>>74142241
Being too lazy to get up and do anything with your life and not being able to do it even if you did try would be two different things wouldent it? Albeit far worse when you have them together.
>>74142494
Christfag, go shit up some other board. /k/ for example.
>>74138675
>>74142357
So Muhammad is powerful as well because he is Allah's Prophet?
Really? What about that Indian elephant God of merchants? Is his power of the minds of his followers really dependant on something he actually did for them?
>>74142368
There are a lot more texts on sin, and how it works. It's not limited to homosexuality.
Honestly I don't understand what you're trying to say with that image.
>>74142626
Muhammad believed it and killed anyone who disagreed with him
Jesus proved himself through miracles, and was murdered for it. Then he rose from the grave, and told his best friends to spread the word and they would die horribly for it, and he was right.
>>74142654
>There are a lot more texts on sin
Yeah whatever, Christfag.
>I don't understand what you
Indeed, you're a Christfag, you have difficulty grasping logic and statements by definition.
>>74138581
>modern socialism is a profoundly globalist movement, whereas jesus was a nationalist
>>74142568
I'm sorry you're triggered by righteous living and wisdom, toothpaste.
/pol/ is a Christian board.
>>74138581
you call them intellectually dishonest and historically anachronistic as such thing as "socialism" didn't exist during biblical times, even if you wanted to argue that you would first define socialism in modern terms before you start applying it to thousand years of history
>>74142773
Your image is a complete non sequitur and you have no argument, and spout insults like the petulant child that you are.
>>74142399
Jesus could have been made up. All records of him were made well after he supposedly died. Just because humans read something and it makes them feel good does not on its own make it real.
>>74142905
There are several eyewitness testimonies from the time period. Google is a powerful thing
Strawmanning is a logical fallacy. Christianity isn't about feeling good. In fact, it states several times in the Bible you will be persecuted mercilessly and hate your life.
>>74142725
Miracles that were only recorded well after he supposedly died. Never played the game of telephone?
>>74142905
Caesar could have been made up.
Rome too.
While we're at it, everything could just be a conspiracy to lead the world astray. Right?
No. Only paranoid schizophrenics think like that
>>74139062
>>>74138788
>>communism equals stealing!!1
>nice meme bro
That shit is LITERALLY in the fucking Communist Manifesto.
Kill and subjugate the rich, place yourself in power, give to the poor.
>>74139747
No, he told a rich man, who wanted to GO TO HEAVEN to sell his property, give it to the poor AND THEN FOLLOW HIM. Just like he told St. Peter to abandon his fishing business, not because fishing is bad, but because he wanted him as his disciple.
>>74143035
The accounts of Jesus are all very similar, consistently telling the same story from memory, all with key differences, showing they are all human eyewitness accounts of the same thing.
>Jesus is the son of God
>either omnipotent or vicariously so
>never once mentions communism or socialism
>>74138581
I mean he would be but there would be no greedy deviants up top to ruin it.
>>74143005
Eyewitness testimonies? That is an extraordinary claim. Proceed to give us the extraordinary evidence
>protip: you're a moron and don't know the definition of eyewitness testimony
>>74143005
Show me then. Last I checked only the Bible talks about the man. If your claiming his apostles as these eyewitnesses then you really don't understand what real evidence is.
>>74143189
Letters of Peter, John, Jude, names, etc.
Or is being an antique letters and historical accounts not good enough for you? You fucking retard.
>>74143189
what do you want?
you have the books
you have the witnesses
do you want Jesus to be in front of you and tell you he was there?
>>74143237
There are accounts of thousands of people. Roman historians wrote about the astounding social upheaval he made.
>show me evidence, but not that evidence. Only the evidence that doesn't exist.
>>74143280
>do you want Jesus to be in front of you and tell you he was there?
He still wouldn't believe it.
>>74143270
Name one contemporary account of Jesus. You said there's eyewitness (meaning people that firsthand saw Jesus) and according to your post there are not only eyewitness accounts of Jesus in the historical sense but also saw him perform miracles.
You're full of it.
>>74143401
Google it. I'm not here to spoon-feed you answers while being talked down to by a shithead.
>>74143146
Boy if eyewitness claims are all it takes to convince you of shit. I got one hell of a story for you.
We got over a dozen eyewitnesses (about as many as your bible) claiming they held in their hands a golden Bible that the Indians wrote. Jesus visited them too why don't you give the eyewitness accounts a read.
By placing such a huge importance on money and what Jesus would hypothetically do with it, you are turning money into an idol.
>>74142834
>/pol/ is a Christian board.
>>74143005
>There are several eyewitness testimonies from the time period
No, there aren't, shitposter.
>>74143360
No there aren't you liar. Josephus is the closest thing and he did not have first hand experience with Jesus and part of the book was very likely altered later by Christians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
>>74143460
Because you're full of shit too and ready just like the rest of your brethren to lie and stretch the truth to suite your group delusion.
>>74143484
Mormons decided what they wanted to do.
These men were brutally tortured and executed for what they saw.
Also, see the story of Paul. He was a Jew who persecuted Christians for a living, got struck blind by Jesus for 3 days, then went on to become one of the most influential apostles in the world
>>74143360
People can still have a social revolt over something that isn't real. Ever heard of a SJW?
>>74138581
>if jesus was alive he would control all the means of production
jesus sounds like a dick
>>74138675
>>74143602
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/
>>74138581
Easy.
"So when are you going to convert?"
>>74143602
Again, if seeking wisdom and righteous living is delusional to you, your ancestors would be ashamed of you.
>>74140228
I don't know what to say, If this was a hundred years ago you could bet your ass it would be a ploy to convert muslims by inviting them to church.
But now...
>>74143793
>your ancestors would be ashamed of you
who. gives. a. fuck. they are dead.
Come home white man
>>74143633
You just claim someone is lying instead of providing arguments, because you have no basis in fact.
Youre making things up to continue believing the things you do
>>74143872
It's like talking to a degenerate SJW.
Well, you're secular, so I'm not surprised.
>>74143611
Joseph Smith was martyred for saying he was given the restored priesthood of God from those same men. Because the church was corrupted after the apostles died and the true church of christ was no longer on the earth without the priesthood to bind on earth and in heaven. Nobody but those men he claimed could give the power to restore what what was lost because they were the last ones to have it. All he wanted to do was try to build a city for his people. His followers were kicked out of everywhere they went till Utah cause nobody wanted it.
>>74138581
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
>>74143699
In other words: No proof. All sources are either medieval forgeries or have been written decades later.
>>74144066
Oh please, the Talmud can't stop talking about him. Not in a good way either.
>>74138581
This argument is always so bothersome. Jesus preached sharing and caring for your neighbours. The government taking my shit and giving it to other people is not the same as me sharing it.
>>74144105
Talmud was written centuries after Jesus.
>>74143943
>has a personal relationship with the creator of the universe
>speaks to it daily using telepathy
>acts condescending towards those who don't buy into this madness
adding an image to make fun of myself for sounding like a stereotype, but yeah.
>>74143880
I'm saying that human behavior isn't always based on fact. I've given plea to of examples of God's that you don't believe in but still have this kind of power over people.
I'm saying that that is exactly what religion is. Your making things up to believe whatever it is you want to see in the world. There very well could be a God but we have little evidence to show that he built this entire universe with only us in mind other than conjecture. We simply don't know. But you want to claim you know what God is about because it keeps you sane. Else you could live without it.
>>74144066
>evidence
>"no that doesn't count cause I say so."
>more evidence
>"that doesn't count either."
If you're that convinced this is just the biggest lie ever told, be my guest.
All I want is to share the glory of Christ with you. Whatever floats your boat pal.
>>74138581
easy
Jesus doesn't exist
>>74143699
All you have to peddle is this bullshit? What Russian says is correct. >>74144066
And as I state your moronic ass doesn't know the definition of eyewitness. None of those people were contemporaries of Jesus.
>>74144275
Christ is your proof. That's all you, me, and anyone needs.
I lived without Christ for a while, and it was a weary, boring existence. He came to me, and I've never been happier or healthier.
Wisdom and righteousness are much more than tools to keep you sane.
It's what builds nations, what holds society together, and I daresay, the modern world.
You are quick to diminish the values your nation, and the West was built upon.
>>74138581
I'm not a christian, so while you are free to make whatever assumptions you wish about what the policital leanings of the fictional literary amalgamation known as Jesus may hold if he were alive right now, those assumptions are not relevant to this discourse.
Now are we fucking or what? Because this dick's not gonna suck itself and its getting late.
>>74144590
Lol moron. You're the one changing the goalposts. Not me. You said there were EYEWITNESS accounts. Still not seeing these eyewitness accounts.
The only thing you have are fanfics and historians writing about an urban legend.
>>74144319
I'm not going to debate the validity of translations of an old book with you, because that would be me acknowledging that it mattered.
Here's what I'm saying.
Nothing has happened in 2000+ years. All the miracles stopped once the population became literate. Any modern day magician could perform miracles if their audience were illiterate goat herders in the desert.
How do you explain this the lack of modern day evidence? And by modern day, I mean in the last 2000+ years. And please don't refer to the verse where the devil tests Jesus and Jesus says nu uh don't question me.
>>74138950
Dunno where it is in the bible but theres the story of the hypocrites who pray on street corners and tell everyone about their charitable deeds only being in it for the recognition and therefore it's not a giving act it's taking
>>74144319
You didn't give any evidence. Josephus as source is generally considered a medieval forgery and all the other "evidence" is from decades or centuries later.
>>74144676
>there are news everywhere saying 'it was a miracle' but miracles dont exist anymore
>>74138581
THOU SHALT NOT STEAL
>>74138675
/thead
>>74144319
I was born being told Mormonism was the one true religion. Raised with all the facts in the world to convince someone of that fact and taught to deny anything that contradicted that as being against God and his gospel. I even felt so sure of this I went to the other side of the world and preached it.
Yet the majority of the world seems to be just fine without hearing that "truth".
Have you taken the time to hear the word of the restored gospel of Jesus christ and been baptized by his holy priesthood with a direct line of succsession going back to Adam?
Why don't you take all of the evidence that believes that world view at face value and ignore everything else?
There are outliers but statistically it would be because you were raised that way. Many human beings cling to their religion the same way they cling to the first humans they grew up with. It always helps when it was overall a positive environment for them. Did you know that the typical American only lives 18 miles away from their own mother?
As if human beings are really that complex. That the overall structure of their lives are held together by facts and not ingrained biological responses to stimuli.
>>74138581
if jesus was alive he would be a nationalist
wow that was hard
>KING of Jews
>not a monarch
>>74144960
>a grabby news headline makes it true
haha. Since we're doing subjective stuff here's what a miracle is to me.
>can't be replicated, even if you run an infinite number of simulations
>can't be explained using the laws of Nature
>unexplainable
That's it really. If it doesn't fall into these two categories, it's a miracle. This would be things like a man walking on water.
However, a person surviving under a landslide or something is not a miracle, because if you run an infinite number of simulations, one time you're going to get one where there's a pocket of air just perfectly around the person. So it's possible, therefore not a miracle.
Can you give me a specific example of what you consider to be a modern day miracle?
god's kingdom is not of this earth.
render upon ceasar that which is ceasar's, render upon god that which is god's.
jesus cares about how caesar rules. he cares about the individual souls of man.
>>74145253
this >>74144319
Is this statement supposed to hold any real weight or significance because it does not. Anyone can say that X would be Y, it doesn't mean shit.
Who the fuck cares what Jesus would be? Yeah, maybe Jesus would be a Socialist, I don't know. I don't care.
The blue haired Commies don't believe in Jesus. Normal people who hate Commies don't believe in Jesus.
It's insane how people who hate Christianity are always bringing it up to reinforce the point.
>haha, tough luck pal, Jesus said this thing you disagree with
But I am not Christian.
>>74144563
Right. Society could only be held up by the truth....I'm forgot... You saw The Dark Knight I presume?
Forget it.
Let's try this. Think back to when Christianity ruled public policy. There was a time when we couldn't even consider the earth wasn't the center of the universe without risking "what holds society together". Or that the earth wasn't flat. Or that the Pope was infallible without jeopardizing "what holds society together". What about the witch hunts where we kept society together by burning witches at the stake out of fear and religious interpretation and conjecture.
You are the definition of someone who drinks the kool-aid. You really really really like how it tastes. But you forget it comes In different flavors. Yours just happens to be the one in style with the people who have always been the best at warfare and taking what they want from other people.
>>74138581
Jesus was apolitical
"Render unto Caesar..." and all that jazz
Only morons think political systems are something new
Jesus wasn't about the here and now he was about bringing everlasting life
>>74144319
The people in this thread are all morons, but I'll at least say that "evidence Jesus existed" is quite different from "evidence that Jesus was the son of a specific deity." Not many would try to fight whether or not he existed as a human.
>>74142368
That image is bullshit. The historical context and Paul's views are NOT congruent.
>>74138581
By converting to paganism if you really need a spiritual side.
>>74145828
I would still argue that it does not matter if he was real or not. He could have just the same hold over people's minds.
>>74138581
Start by proving Jesus was alive.
>>74138675
fpbp
>>74138581
>implying socialist/communist is about love and helping others
Oh come on, nobody can be tha-
>A FUCKING LEAF
Charity is voluntary. Socialism is not.
Charity is virtuous. Socialism is not.
By actually reading scripture and citing it to them without giving them all the cherrypicked Bible verses that sound nice out of context.
>>74146530
Modern Biblical Scholarship has a concensus on that. Jesus existed.
Not saying that argumentum ad populum is good (however in this case the populum is scholars) but If you are going to go against academical concensus you need some serious evidence arguments.
I suggest you read up on Bart Ehrman. He has quite a few books for the non academic layperson.
>>74138581
Seeing as communism is Jewish chicanery, I'm rather certain the J man would hate it
>implying Jesus would take money from good people and give it to crack addicts
>>74149246
So, Christian scholars say Jesus existed? No bias there at all. Glad you sure told all of us and now we're gonna all convert, because clearly he existed because some Christians said so. And clearly because he existed, that means all the miracles and claims about him are factual.
>>74138581
Jesus was a kike commie and got what he deserved, Paganism is the only non-degenerate religion a native European must follow if he doesn't want to be a leftie.
>>74149408
Not Christian, as far as I know (at least for the case of Anglo-Germans, I don't know French)majority of the Biblical Scholars are agnostic-atheists. Bart Ehrman is an atheist himself.
I'm not pulling authority on you but I did my masters on early christianity (thesis based on Marcion of Sinope) so I'm just parroting to youı the opinion of the academic concensus.
I think it was Ehrman who said that atheist are shooting themselves at foot by denying Jesus existed. There are a lot of wacky shit in Christianity that can make someone an atheist you don't need to go and focus on the existance of the jesus as if the rest of the doctrine-history is non contradictory and solid.
Again Believe what you want, but academic consensus is that there was most likely a guy who live in 1st AD, believed in the apocalyptic judaism meme(that was popular at the time) and claimed to be a messiah (again plenty, I think we have 4-5 different jews that claim to be a messiah in 1st century AD, one was actually some sort of a commander in the roman-jewish war iirc)
Please don't take my words as an ignorant roach but take a look at the biblical scholarship. There are plenty of atheists if you refuse to read the christian scholars work.
>>74138581
>mustache
Why does that boy look like a girl?
>captcha: Union Watch
>>74149603
This tbqh
Try your best to avoid "neopaganism" and all the bullshit variants.
>>74149677
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
There is hardly a consensus if you read just the opening paragraphs. Some people have a consensus, and they can't even agree on a god damn thing about him or what was real/fake, and then you've got a bunch of guys saying he never existed.
And, going over the evidence here, I'm laughing because I don't know who the fuck goes "he totally existed" by looking at the evidence here. By these standards I should believe Hercules, Gilgamesh, and various other mythological figures existed as well. Because there's lots of documents referencing them in the ancient world a hell of a lot more than Jesus.
>>74138581
Very simple. Jesus Christ fed the poor and healed the sick, HIMSELF. Full stop.
Modern commies advocate massive theft and fraud whereby they pretend to feed the poor etc, but they really just want to stuff their fat pockets with all that stolen tax money and double dip with official bribery ala the Clinton foundation, accepting bribes from Soros etc.
No two things could be more different than Historical Jesus and modern left/libtards.
>>74149899
from your wikipedia link.
>Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary.
Again sir, I'm just a masters faggot who kinda read about this subject as far as my research (might be wrong) the modern biblical scholarship agrees that Jesus did existed. Of course there might be some scholars here and there that disagree, just as there are those who say illiad and odyssey are written by different poets, but the concensus is that both are written by homer.
The concensus might be wrong, hell I might be a lazy fuck maybe there are tons of people who say he dindu existed but I missed them but please I know I'm saying this as a third time but check out Bart Ehrmans work. He also gets a lot of jesus never existed amirite meme and he kinda explained it in a much better way than I can. I think it was on youtube. Also check the biblical scholarship debates he has with christians.
I'm not your enemy, from one atheist to another please do check him out. I'm calling him out especially because he is more prone to interacting outside the academical bubble. Again I might be wrong, Sheik Bart al Ehrmani might be wrong, concensus might be wrong, I might be wrong about the concensus but do check him.
I really think talking about the existance of jesus is a waste of time for Atheists. Hercules and gilgamesh are hard to prove but there is plenty of evidence for Jesus's existance, again Ehrman explains it better so rather than giving citations (desu I don't know much about it either, I'm more focused on heresies) I'm directing you to him.
Just have an open mind. I g2g but please do check it out.
Jesus was a socialist therefore give David Cameron your money.
>>74150279
If we cut out everything and get right to the root of the problem is, your "evidence" is basically a few vague mentions of him in texts written long after he was claimed to have lived and died, gospels written decades after his supposed death and not even by authors we know of for certain, etc.
So, your evidence thus far has boiled down to 'he was a guy who was baptized by John the Baptist because he was believed to be sinless so surely nobody would add that in as itd be embarrassing, so its probably a real event." and "because people make vague mentions to him being crucified, surely he was some guy who was crucified."
For the first one, we know the Bible has no problem adding in embarrassing or contradictory shit. We see it all the time in the OT and NT. For the second, vague mentions to an event aren't "evidence".
This is like me writing a book about a guy who said he knew a guy who denied gravity existed. I write the book and a few other guys also say they knew a guy who knew a guy who said gravity didn't exist. So, we write this all down and make a book out of it. And we surely wouldn't lie because it's so obvious, right? It'd be embarrassing to say gravity isn't real, so we must be onto something to deny it and cite all these guys who knew a guy.
Your "evidence" is basically random conjecture. It's a guess because nobody knows shit so they make a guess. That's not a firm basis of fact like what we have for other historical figures and events. And if it was anybody else's religious fanfiction this wouldn't get the time of day. There's more evidence for fucking Hercules than for Jesus by these same standards of evidence to say Jesus was real.
>>74149731
It's a heavily edited picture of Anzu. She is very bullied. People started a meme calling her a tranny and also edit pictures of her.
Here is her youtube channel if you wish to send her hateful comments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVxRk4SgZRQ
>>74150693
even muhamad had to write about jesus in the quran because he knew that jesus had existed
>>74138581
>counter
christcucks are proto communists.
>>74139447
>>74139747
Didn't Jesus say to render unto Caesar that which is Caesars?
I would interpret that to mean to at least pay your taxes.
>>74152659
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
