Yesterday there were multiple threads about a brand new study that found a LINK between empathy and genetics. Why is /pol/ so eager to accept that single study over a more abstract and quantifiable sensation such as empathy, rather than the possibility of gender identity being a biological thing.
1. There is 25 years of research into sexual dimorphism in the brain.
2. There is 15+ years of research exploring how these dimorphic areas present in tranny brains.
3. There is embyronic and developmental research on intersex children that support this.
4. Things such as higher concordance rate in identical twins is observed, while dizygotic twins have the average rate of the normal population.
Being transgender is a completely natural phenomenon of intersexuality of the brain. If you deny this, you are denying empirical and rational observation from dozens more sources than your precious research on empathy and race.
Being transgender is no more a mental illness than baldness is. It's a physical condition that causes mental issues till treatment.
Image: Annotated bibliography of 25+ years worth of research. 40+ different articles from different institutes, countries, and independent groups.
So /pol/ will eagerly believe a single study about genetic empathy but completely ignore than dozens of empirical studies done about trannies that show /pol/ is wrong?
>>73889180
>tranny research
>>73889303
See: >>73889277
I just posted 40+ research articles. Are you going to continue to ignore that?
>>73889180
ok if you have this natural phenomenon cool, go get yourself treated and make sure you good to go.
unfortunately for you dumb cunt all these people like caitlyn jenner arent born this way and are doing it because of mental illness.
Transsexuals: the mental illness
>>73889418
I'm not a tranny. Just a skeptical libertarian that likes to examine both sides of the argument before taking a stance.
I agree with you though, there are definitely some nut cases that transition (Jenner etc). That doesn't mean we should treat those actual trannies worse because of people in their community.
It's essentially the exact same thing SJW do to /pol/.. "There was some nazi post on /pol/, all /pol/acks are nazis. All TRump supporters are nazi"
It's the same failed logic but you just feel justified in applying it to transgender people.
>>73889180
>>73889277
Okay, so what about it?
Gender dysphoria is still a mental illness.
>>73889719
Which is a product of the physical condition of having brain intersexuality.
That's like saying depression from male pattern baldness makes balding a mental illness. No, baldness comes with mental illness.
>>73889719
>Someone gets a limb cut off from gangrene
>Person sinks into a deep depression and kills themself.
Would you call losing a limb a mental illness? No.. It's a physical condition that weighs heavily on a person and often makes them depressed/mentally ill.
Same with trannies.
>>73889794
>>73889907
Not all trannies have dysphoria.
>>73889180
Yes, yes, and I am quite sure that being a gay isn't a pederasty and absolutely normal. And traditional family values, race, gender is just a social construct that we should destroy.
Together with degeneracy!
Oh, I forgot, it isn't degeneracy. It is diversity.
Together with diversity then!
>>73890025
So you even further prove my point. Not all white men that bald sink into depression. A lot do. It doesn't mean the physical illness IS a mental disorder though. It creates a scenario in a persons life where they are likely to become mentally ill due to the problems their physical condition creates.
>>73889794
Depression is a mental illness ya' dingus, wether brought on by insecurities or not, doesn't mean we hand those people a gun to off themselves with
>>73889586
Except that still ends with them being treated as what they were born as just damaged m8
either way you wont get what we all know your looking for.
Schizophrenia is genetic, as well.
It's still a mental-illness.
>>73890157
You think being gay has something to do with pedophilia? LOL.
>pederasty and absolutely normal.
Pederasty occurs between a developed, mature adult and a child incapable of consent. Someone is actively harmed.
You are the epitome if knee-jerk reaction. You just compared hurting an innocent child to a consenting adult living their life how they want and not hurting anyone.
>>73890387
But schizophrenia actually makes the brain behave differently than it would at baseline. Tranny brains don't behave differently at all. They operate at the correct baseline, just with different sexually dimorphic points.
>>73890285
Well... I mean they kind of are born damaged and the most effective treatment we have now is transition:
>Heylans et al., 2014: "A difference in SCL-90 [a test of distress, anxiety, and hostility] overall psychoneurotic distress was observed at the different points of assessments (P = 0.003), with the most prominent decrease occurring after the initiation of hormone therapy (P < 0.001)...Furthermore, the SCL-90 scores resembled those of a general population after hormone therapy was initiated."
>Colizzi et al., 2013: "At enrollment, transsexuals reported elevated CAR ['cortisol awakening response', a physiological measure of stress]; their values were out of normal. They expressed higher perceived stress and more attachment insecurity, with respect to normative sample data. When treated with hormone therapy [at followup, 1 year after beginning HRT], transsexuals reported significantly lower CAR (P < 0.001), falling within the normal range for cortisol levels. Treated transsexuals showed also lower perceived stress (P < 0.001), with levels similar to normative samples."
>Gomez-Gil et al., 2012: "SADS, HAD-A, and HAD-Depression (HAD-D) mean scores [these are tests of depression and anxiety] were significantly higher among patients who had not begun cross-sex hormonal treatment compared with patients in hormonal treatment (F=4.362, p=.038; F=14.589, p=.001; F=9.523, p=.002 respectively). Similarly, current symptoms of anxiety and depression were present in a significantly higher percentage of untreated patients than in treated patients (61% vs. 33% and 31% vs. 8% respectively)."
>de Vries, et al., 2014 studied 55 trans teens from the onset of treatment in their early teenage years through a follow-up an average of 7 years later. They found no negative outcomes, no regrets, and in fact their group was slightly mentally healthier than controls.
>>73889180
Go back to your containment board, degenerate.
>>73890572
No m8 its not effective as it raised the suicide rate.
The most effective method for schizophrenics is not to play along no matte how innocent their fantasy
>>73890478
Yes but we operate with two baselines(XX,XY) and filter them accordingly, so that statement is incorrect, dimorphism of the brain in any way what so ever is just a chemically imbalanced brain.
>>73889794
So you're irreperable and -should- just be gassed?
Well thanks Trans*!!
>>73889180
I think the general consensus on /pol/ is that there is a really tiny minority of legit transsexuals that needs help and causes no problems, but that wields disproportionate political power by turning a medical problem into a matter of identity politics and we vs. them thinking, pushes to be seen as normal whereas others would rather see it as an exception to the well-functioning nucleus family, and caused a wave of just generally depressed people to cling on to the newest faux-identity that they can just wear like clothes to get support and a sense of community.
So instead of 0.02% of legit transsexuals who ask for medication you get 5% of my-little-pony lovers who mix trans and crossdressing and being "traps", who push for disproportionate representation, who cause 10 year olds to be indoctrinated with dangerous ideas, etc. etc.
The second point would be that most of your research is a) often ignored when it doesn't fit liberals (e.g. sexually dimorphic brains), b) is misinterpreted or abused. We essentially don't know a lot about the brain despite all those studies so every extreme consequence taken from the research should be met skeptically, e.g. cutting up 10 year olds just because we find a slightly elevated level of allegedly-female brain activity.
It reminds me of the people thinking "they found testosterone in her body, that's a male hormon, she must be transsexual".
>>73890227
But if you say the physical transgender brain causes dysphoria, and the physical brain is what makes someone dysphoric, then you can say being transgender = mental illness
The problem is though people have "brain intersexuality" or the better put: a bit more feminine or masculine brain than average and even are physically intersex or look more feminine or masculine than average yet they don't have dysphoria. They live their daily lives and some do live as the opposite gender because it's more convenient.
>>73889180
/pol/s main contention is that there are a shitload of people who claim to be "trans" but don't have significantly different brain morphology at all.
>>73889180
>tranny brains
KEK
>>73890423
>You think being gay has something to do with pedophilia? LOL.
If you didn't know, before this word used as a common name for all abnormal relations between males. But some liberal "scientists" changed it.
>not hurting anyone
They hurt themselves. They are mentally ill people. Absolutely sane person can't want to fuck another person with the same gender.
>>73891005
Having a feminine and masculine brain require you to fail gender stereotypes for a better mental health does not compute and is in direct conflict with the idea gender norms are reinforced social constructs
in essence one side of liberalism says having a masculine brain and feminine brain should be minute and not result in a different outward appears or behavior while the other says fuck that specifically for tyranny's
>>73891173
to fufill*
>>73890735
There is not an increased suicide rate post-transition. If you believe this, you believe in unsubstantiated propaganda.
The study that people cite for elevated suicide rates post-transition is Dhejne et al. Her research has been done in chunks of 10~ years. She has done three of them. Let's look at what they say:
1973-1989: elevated suicide rates
1989-2001: suicide rates in line with normal population
2001-2010: A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
Literally what you claim is factually incorrect. Transition empirically helps those that do it.
Here is the researcher herself, speaking out against the misrepresentations of her research:
>Yes! It’s very frustrating! I’ve even seen professors use my work to support ridiculous claims. I’ve often had to respond myself by commenting on articles, speaking with journalists, and talking about this problem at conferences.
>People who misuse the study always omit the fact that the study clearly states that it is not an evaluation of gender dysphoria treatment. If we look at the literature, we find that several recent studies conclude that WPATH Standards of Care compliant treatment decrease gender dysphoria and improves mental health.
-Djehne
>>73891173
Tldr.
You should not have to LOOK like a women jus because you have a feminine brain or that means gender norms are real and need to be respected
>>73889180
>Being transgender is a completely natural phenomenon of intersexuality of the brain. If you deny this, you are denying empirical and rational observation from dozens more sources than your precious research on empathy and race.
/pol/ is anti-science, along with the rest of the neoreactionary crowd. why would you think this would matter to the children here? every argument is just
>muh feelings
because that's how babbies "argue".
>>73889180
>A study about spooks to justify a spook
>>73891210
Sorry m8 I wont let you strawman that hard
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
>>73891393
cont,
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group
>>73890227
Something like baldness that manifests physically is incomparable to something like "b-but my brain hidden away in my male skull is maybe possibly female even though scientific studies show that there's no physical difference between a male and female brain".
It's quite obvious you're not an "objective libertarian." You have an agenda. You've been posting pro-tranny shit on /pol/ along with pictures of attractive biological females to condition people to associate trannies with attractive females for days now. I could play the same game as you and include some picture of a horrendous-looking tranny with my post - believe me, there are plenty of them to choose from - but not all of us need to use underhanded, psychologically manipulative methods to achieve our objectives.
Just fuck off with this, "I'm so innocent and non-biased" bullshit. If you want to argue that trannies are more than mentally ill, at least fucking own it and outright debate it instead of being a passive-aggressive dickhead.
>>73891393
Are you fucking brain dead? That was the result for the data cohort between 1973-1989.
Further, this research only looks at Genital surgery which only 20% of the MtF population get 2-10% of the FtM.
1. This is a tiny sample of the tranny population.
2. The numbers you just gave me are from 1/3rd of the research.
3. The newest data shows: A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
So you are citing 1/3rd of the sample of 20% of trannies 25 years ago.
Maybe you should think about how much worse the surgery was back then, how much more expensive it was, how much more anti-transgender sentiment in the Western culture there was, etc.
The reality shows since 1989 there has been a massive incnrease in the success of GRS for those who seek to get it (still only 20-30%).
>>73891456
Literally misrepresenting the study you fucking cuck. Learn to read the whole study.
>>73891603
>massive increase in the success of GRS =/= patients mental stability
>>73891603
SOrry m8 I just showed you conflicting science your simply not accepting it.
theree is no OBJECTIVE way to say transitioning is a the most effective treatment.
it would be the same if I said I hear voiced In my head and everyone played along with me that it was real and as long as I didn't hurt anyone or myself you would say me being happier after is a sign of effective treatment,
as well
see>>73891269
trannys should not have to change anything about themselves
>>73890572
>I mean they kind of are born damaged
How are they born damaged?
>>73891619
That is literally the quote from the website under conclusions m8
>>73889180
> But dat gender iz social construct comrade.
I see you ignored my post and instead chose to spend your time insulting others with great arguments like "you fucking cuck".
People like you just make me sad. All this time spent on creating the illusion of being scientific and just wanting to argue rationally and see things from both sides etc. etc. but in the end there's less substance than if I'd just engage with some redneck who at least doesn't hide his ideology in lengthy ramblings.
>>73892125
That's cultural appropriation mate you should fuck off aye cunt.
>>73892647
being on 4chan outside of /int/ is cultural appropriation m8
>>73892647
Posting memes is cultural appropriation m8
>>73889180
It's a physical condition that affects the mind.
Sounds like mental illness to me.
>>73891270
I'm sorry that wanting to slice your ballsack and invert your penis is something a normal person would not do.
>>73892719
Your gf is culturally appropriating tyreese's special sauce mate, might want to check into it.
>>73892934
I am black.
>>73892965
...In a photo negative, maybe
>>73893053
kek
SOUR
AS
FUCK
hows my peoples dick taste on your mothers mouth?
>>73889180
why are you trying to justify mental illness? why must you be a special snowflake? can't you just be normal?
'b-but I feel like a woman' fuck off. you're a man, embrace your masculinity.
>>73892039
>you would say me being happier after is a sign of effective treatment
Dude are you retarded? If it's incurable of course that would be considered effective treatment. People being happy, not hurting themselves or anyone else, there is literally no better outcome bar an actual cure.
>>73893109
Dunno she doesn't often eat feaces, more of a caramel slice person.
>>73889180
There is no way ànyone from /pol/ took the time to type such an elaborate ruse
>>>/out/
>>>/lgbt/
>>>/Reddit/
>>>/tumblr/
>>73892039
>>73893190
>theree is no OBJECTIVE way to say transitioning is a the most effective treatment.
Not to mention that you say this, and then literally spell out objective measures of efficacy... in the form of non-violence and happiness.
>>73889180
5. There is no citation of any of these would be studies in my post
Fixed this for you
>>73893190
Or you know, maybe you could research how it affects the brain and develop proper treatments, that's like telling a cancer patient that you can't be fucked amping full of radiation and not to shot anyone on their way out.
The answer to any question like this is that /pol/ is comprised of literal retards
>>73893420
don't be a faggot, none of us are literary
>>73889180
I fully accept that gender identity is a biological phenomenon. How could it not be?
Remember that while /pol/ is a great place for honest and open discourse, there's still a plague of "muh redpill muh degeneracy" sheep who just follow the crowd.
>>73889794
>depression from male pattern baldness
That analogy is a nonsequitor to this argument
>>73893190
Allowing someone to remain afflicted is not treatment by definition m8
hence we don't and no one advocated we tell schizos the voices are real even if they are innocent
>>73893420
>Literally a Non-argument original post without any citation to the mentioned studies
>/pol/ is retarded heh my comfirmation bias wins again hehe
We're being invaded by fucking cucks
>>73893325
No m8 because I showed you sciences showing it does not objectively and consistently result in happiness and non violence.
you just said nu huh and showed a conflicting piece of evidence.
you really bad this m8
I like how you ignore>>73891269
>>73893645
Citations are here >>73889277
Thanks for proving my point
>>73893528
SO you accept women and also men have characteristics that make them not equal in certaom fields due to biology and you would have to admit our society is not set up to respect theses differences and In fact are moving farther and farther away from them..
>>73893769
Except this link is conflicting science notice it is from the same place due to the formatting.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
Results
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
and it has over 40 links as well.
>>73889180
having the urge to gouge out your eyes from time to time is also normal and natural
to do it is retarded
>>73893416
Oh of fucking course just look at the Brain and research, like y'know all those other mental illnesses we cured with our extensive knowledge of brain functions. Oh wait no actually no I was being sarcastic no we haven't cured fuck all.
It's more like smiling at a spastic and telling him he's a big space man, he don't fucking know better so who gives a shit
>>73893645
Ignorant nigger. I gave over 45+ peer reviewed citations.
>>73892125
Right.. I'm not saying there isn't evelated mortality in some of the data. But their research has gone on for 35 years and there is only elevated mortality in the first 12 years.
You didn't read the study. You didn't read the followups. You are an ignorant cuck.
>>73891992
LOL. Massive increase. The sample sizes are basically the same but the regret rate has plummeted as the surgery gets better and society is more tolerant.
>>73891468
>Ignoring the research
>>73892039
You didn't show me anything conflicting. The Dhejne research over 35 years actually supports transition as an effective treatment. It just illustrated that for a 12-15 year period while SRS was new, it was not successful. Much of this can be traced back to conditions transgender people live in:
-Social discrimination
-Legal discrimination
-Workplace discrimination
But yeah, kek! Let's just look at a tiny fraction of a thorough study and only conclude results from the part that fits what you want.
The god damn researcher HERSELF spoke out about what you are trying to do with her research. That research as a whole, shows SRS to be effective.
>>73894005
Except when its used to make laws and enforce actual social change that involves us playing along to the highest degree such as the bathroom nonsense we are dealing with now.
>>73893713
>I showed you sciences
Shut the fuck up you literal spastic
>>73894071
Then post them, 63% negroid friend
>>73893960
The studies you linked deal with the psychological effects trans gendered people deal with after sex reassignment while OPs deals with the causes of a person becoming trans gendered. Not conflicting.
Unless I'm missing something?
>>73894071
I posted a link from your same source that concluced the articl with no updates and cites over 40 links m8
your done I don't have to prove shit besides there is no objective agreement on the treatment and weather or not it is effective or even the most effective.
>>73894071
again you see and admit conflicting evidence and straw man it when it simply shows there is no objective agreement.
>>73893360
But then the second post I literally dropped 35+ research articles with sources and annotations.
>>73893842
>SO you accept women and also men have characteristics that make them not equal in certaom fields due to biology and you would have to admit our society is not set up to respect theses differences and In fact are moving farther and farther away from them..
Yes, absolutely. Any fool can see from a cursory glance at men and women that they are biologically distinct.
Our societies used to respect these differences. Now they simply claim they don't exist. Hopefully it will all come to a head when shit like the draft gets implemented for women and people start to realise "hold on, this is a job for men"
>>73893769
One article for 15 years of study
Deliberate omission of the the downsides of transexual livestyles
Scientifically skewed citations
Confirmation bias man strikes again
>>73889180
Few people would deny that there is a biological component to trannies. What people are actually saying is that the biological component varies from person to person and that a man with a brain that has some female traits isn't a woman, but a man with a fucked up brain.
A man with a sexually dimorphic brain doesn't have a brain that is 100% female. He has a brain that has components of both sexes, and that's been bombarded with male hormones for his entire life. To what extent the brain is male or female varies. But that person will never really be a woman.
The problem most people have with the whole thing is that we're expected to automatically accept that every man who thinks he is a woman actually is a woman (and vice versa). We're not allowed to discuss it or disagree with it, despite the fact that the lefties themselves claim that gender is a social construct.
I believe that the whole issue would be far more acceptable if we were allowed to have an open discussion about it, rather than giving in to the absolutely insane bullshit that comes out of the LGBT community, with their thousands of insane gender and sexuality combinations. Regardless or what you think about sexual dimorphism, there's absolutely no doubt that the political agenda and the identity politics behind the LGBT movement have no basis in reality, yet we're called bigots if we disagree with it. That's where the issue lies.
There fanatics should try to show some humility and be informative, and stop whining about minor issues like pronouns and bizarre identitiy politics.
>>73894150
>>73894262
I already posted them as an img: >>73889277
Berglund "Berglund, H. et al. “Male-to-Female Transsexuals Show Sex-Atypical Hypothalamus Activation When Smelling Odorous Steroids". A positron emission tomography (PET) study showed that smelling androgens (male pheromones) caused transwomen to respond in the hypothalamus region of their brain in a manner similar to XX karyotype women. However, smelling estrogen-based pheromones also caused them to respond in the hypothalamus region in a manner similar to XY karyotype men. This combination of results suggests that transwomen occupy an “intermediate position with predominantly female features” in the way the hypothalamus reacted
Yokota, Y. et al “Callosal Shapes at the Midsagittal Plane: MRI Differences of Normal Males, Normal Females, and GID”. An MRI study of 22 transwomen and 28 transmen examined the shape of the corpus callosum in the brain at a specific cross-sectional plane, and compared this shape with that observed in 211 XY karyotype males and 211 XX karyotype females. Their results demonstrated that not only could the sex of the patient be determined with 74% accuracy from the MRI picture, but the shapes of the brains in the transsexuals strongly reflected their gender, and not their biological sex
Zubiaurre “Cortical Thickness in Untreated Transsexuals”. A 2012 study examined cortical thickness in the brain between 29 XY karyotype males, 23 XX karyotype females, 24 transmen, and 18 transwomen. None of the transsexual subjects had received any hormone treatment prior to the study. Using an MRI, the researchers found that the transwomen had more cortical thickness than the XY males in three regions of the brain. The transmen showed evidence of masculinization of their grey matter. In all transsexuals studied, the key differences from their biological sex were found in the right hemisphere. On a graph, transpeople statistically fell in the middle between the XX and XY kary.
>>73894165
No m8 the discussion turned to it being the most effective treatment I said suicides rate rises and showed objective studies showing this so its conflicting science to his point m8 follow along
>>73894262
>>73894150
Boston University Medical Center. "Transgender: Evidence on the biological nature of gender identity." The researchers conducted a literature search and reviewed articles that showed positive biologic bases for gender identity. These included disorders of sexual development, such as penile agenesis, neuroanatomical differences, such as grey and white matter studies, and steroid hormone genetics, such as genes associated with sex hormone receptors. They conclude that current data suggests a biological etiology for transgender identity.
Bao, Hahn, Kranz, Kaufmann "Structural Connectivity Networks of Transgender People". 94 subjects, 23 FtM, 21 MtF, 25 cisFemale, 25 cisMale: average age 26. Transsexual subjects did not fulfill criteria for current comorbidities but 9 reported history of depression (n = 2), specific phobias (n = 3), obsessive compulsive disorder (n = 1), anorexia nervosa (n = 2), and substance abuse (n = 4). All patients reported subjective feelings to belong to the other gender before or at puberty. Investigating structural networks in female-to-male and male-to-female transsexuals, we observed differences in hemispheric and lobar connectivity as well as local efficiencies when compared with healthy controls.
Burke "Hypothalamic response to the chemo-signal androstadienone in gender dysphoric children and adolescents". Androstadienone, a particularly fragrant chemosignal responsible for sex-based differences in hypothalamic microstructure; children with gender dysphoria were observed to express differences in hypothalamic activation in accordance with identified gender, rather than assigned gender.
>>73894128
We ain't talking about the laws on bathrooms, we're talking about letting trannies reassign if they want to, and how it's the best they can hope for and how it objectively works.
The bathroom shit, nice moving of goalposts, that's all just bullshit. It should be up to the establishment's owner. He is afterall the fucking owner, he can do what he likes
>>73894262
>>73894150
Gooren "The biology of human psychosexual differentiation." Meta-analysis of sex-steroid production and prenatal androgen exposure in transgender people.
Swaab "Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism, and sexual orientation." Analysis of prenatal androgen exposure similar to Gooren, but notes that neurological testosterone availability in MtF trans people is deficient, causing transgenderism or non-heterosexualism.
Garcia-Falgueras "A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity." The structure of the anterior hypothalamus plays a strong role in the development of transgenderism; INAH3 volume in transwomen resembles ciswomen, and INAH3 volume in transmen resembles cismen.
Luders "Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism." MtF transgender people were analyzed by fMRI; gray matter variation throughout the brain more closely resembled the layout of a cisfeminine brain, rather than that of a cismasculine brain, implying gender identity depends on cerebral layout.
Rametti "White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study." By diffusion-tensor-imaging MRI and fractional anisotropy analysis of various transgender and cisgender people, FtM transgender people more closely resembled a masculine-structured brain than a feminine- structured brain, noted by the study in the structures of the right superior longitudinal fasciculus, the foreceps minor, and the corticospinal tract. White matter microstructure therefore plays a role in gender identity.
>>73893960
This sounds pretty spot on - I imagine no small part of this is the realisation that no, you didn't change gender, you just had your dick chopped off and replaced with a hole that vaguely resembled female anatomy.
Funnily enough South Park said it best:
"No, I didn't actually make him black, I just made him look more like a black person"
>>73894392
Yes I posted a link to the same source directly addressing suicides m8 which contains over 40 links
sorry m8 follow along.
>>73889180
Baldness is a mental problem.
There is literally nothing wrong with balding, but people get extremely pained over it, and undergo all manner of surgical treatment to fight something that isn't unhealthy and doesn't effect them adversely.
Baldness is an issue of vanity, not an issue of hairloss, they're just more worried about how other people look at them than their own sanity and dignity.
>>73894386
Based Not-Denmark telling it like it is.
>>73894431
it does not objectively work the science is conflicted and still out
>>73894429
>>73894454
>>73894392
Results
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
>>73894421
You specifically posted a research article in which the researcher herself has spoken out about your interpretation.
The long term follow up of her research actually shows the OPPOSITE of what it did in 1989 (the study you cited).
Further I posted many other objective studies about health improvements via transition: >>73890572
Here's more.
>Lawrence, 2003 surveyed post-op trans folk: "Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret."
>Unlike the previous links, it's not peer-reviewed, but the large sample size provides some corroboration of the above results. In particular, we have: (Page 15): "Stage of transition had a substantial impact upon life satisfaction within the sample. 70% of the participants stated that they were more satisfied with their lives since transition, compared to 2% who were less satisfied (N=671)" (Page 50): " Most participants who had transitioned felt that their mental health was better after doing so (74%), compared to only 5% who felt it was worse (N=353)." (Page 55): "For participants who had transitioned, this had led to changes in their self-harming. 63% felt that they harmed themselves more before they transitioned, with only 3% harming themselves more after transition (N=206)." (Page 59): "Suicidal ideation and actual attempts reduced after transition, with 63% thinking about or attempting suicide more before they transitioned and only 3% thinking about or attempting suicide more post-transition. 7% found that this increased during transition, which has implications for the support provided to those undergoing these processes (N=316)."
>>73894593
Transsexualism (ICD-10),[1] or gender identity disorder (DSM-IV),[2] is a condition in which a person's gender identity - the sense of being a man or a woman - contradicts his or her bodily sex characteristics. The individual experiences gender dysphoria and desires to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex.
The treatment for transsexualism includes removal of body hair, vocal training, and cross-sex hormonal treatment aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible to alleviate the gender dysphoria. Sex reassignment also involves the surgical removal of body parts to make external sexual characteristics resemble those of the opposite sex, so called sex reassignment/confirmation surgery (SRS). This is a unique intervention not only in psychiatry but in all of medicine. The present form of sex reassignment has been practised for more than half a century and is the internationally recognized treatment to ease gender dysphoria in transsexual persons.[3], [4]
>>73889384
So a male is still a male and a female is still a female, no matter the hormones chromosomes don't lie
>>73894593
I've said this multiple times you fucking ignorant sack of shit.
That research is split into 3 parts.
1973-1989,
1989-2001,
2001-2010.
Only in the first cohort of data was there elevated suicide rate. The rest of the data cohorts showed baseline rates comparable or below the population.
Actually fucking READ the study you ignorant sand nigger. Here is what the newest data set showed:
>The newest data shows: A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
>>73894599
NO M8 my link deals with a separate topic and shows concise evidence and links to over 40 supporting sources.
your done or you will post the quote form MY article.
in the end the science is obviously conflicted.
>>73889180
kill yourself niggy
>>73894593
>>73893960
>>The newest data shows: A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
The newest data shows: A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
>>The newest data shows: A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
YOU SEEM INCAPABLE OF READING.
>>73894746
sorry m8 no.
show me where it says this data in incomplete I will wait.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
quote it NOW
>>73889180
> trannies arent mentally ill!
> makes claims about incredibly rare REAL intersex disorders
> applies these rare cases to the run of the mill tranny who is as common as dogshit.
NOPE
REAL intersex disorders have nothing to do with trannies.
PHYSICIANS and PSYCHIATRISTS (who are also physicians...) diagnose intersex disorders, trannyism is self-diagnosed by frootloops or by "psychologists" who need to make the payments on their new boat.
>>73894852
That is not in my link m8 show me
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
show us all the quote m8 in my link or your blown out
HAHAHAHAHAA
>>73889586
>>73889794
these people already had feminie faces, thats the only reason they look good for being trannies
You you have a man face you most likey will look like shit as tranny
>>73889277
Half those links are pretty much studies that say "something went wrong in your brain, now you have a new fetish". None of those prove that trannies are natural, only that sometimes stuff in the brain gets scrambled, be it from injury or birth defect or whatever. The brain is a delicate machine, and if wires start getting crossed in there, shit will go against the natural intent, because nature never intended those wires to be crossed in the first place.
>>73894783
Okay. I went looking through your "40 supporting sources"
> At follow-up, 32 patients had completed sex reassignment surgery, five were still in process, and five-following their own decision-had abstained from genital surgery. No one regretted their reassignment. The clinicians rated the global outcome as favorable in 62% of the cases, compared to 95% according to the patients themselves, with no differences between the subgroups. Based on the follow-up interview, more than 90% were stable or improved as regards work situation, partner relations, and sex life, but 5-15% were dissatisfied with the hormonal treatment, results of surgery, total sex reassignment procedure, or their present general health. Most outcome measures were rated positive and substantially equal for MF and FM.
>The cohort was subdivided according to the presence or absence of regret of sex reassignment, and the two groups were compared. The results of logistic regression analysis indicated that two factors predicted regret of sex reassignment, namely lack of support from the patient's family, and the patient belonging to the non-core group of transsexuals. In conclusion, the results show that the outcome of sex reassignment has improved over the years. However, the identified risk factors indicate the need for substantial efforts to support the families and close friends of candidates for sex reassignment.
>This study examined factors associated with satisfaction or regret following (SRS) in 232 male-to-female transsexuals operated on between 1994 and 2000 by one surgeon using a consistent technique. Participants, all of whom were at least 1-year postoperative, completed a written questionnaire concerning their experiences and attitudes. Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret.
>>73889277
> effects on the brain from dosing with artificial estrogen estrogen
> animals who's brains have been subjected to "trauma"
> STILL not your garden variety ladyboy or drag queen
give it up, you cant win this argument.
>>73890227
Oh no.. I-used to fap to that image.
>>73894852
DAILY REMINDER this shill is lying and got caught.
>>73895115
sorry m8 it goes on to CONCLUDE
Results
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
you done m8 and tried to fucking lie at that
>>73895009
>>73894913
>>73895009
>>73894913
You guys are literally retarded as fuck. That article was published ONLINE in 2011 when the newest cohort was published.
Literally read the fucking paper. Even all the papers it cites in its sources so show the benefits to transition: >>73895115
You are literally citing research that doesn't agree with you.
We need to separate freaks from trans.
>>73889384
> "research" on self-selecting sample of trannies who have been poisoning themselves with massive doses of female hormones for years
> finds their brains are effected
> Groundbreaking!!!
>>73895233
My article is addressing a specific issue m8 sorry.
Its conflicting science and proof nothing about the treatment is objectively proven
>>73895228
You are truly ignorant as fuck. The researcher herself has spoken out publicly about your extrapolation of her research.
The data doesn't agree with you, the researcher doesn't agree with you, and the "40" links you referenced all don't agree with you.
You are objectively incorrect and you are clinging to a conclusion from a cohort of research done 20 years ago which has shown drastic improvement in the SAME research just new cohort.
Literally you are BTFO and the fact you don't realize it just further proves my point about how fucking dumb you are.
You are citing data that doesn't agree with you. From a researcher who doesn't agree with your interpretation of that conclusion.
Fucking 10/10 kek
>>73895233
no m8 it concludes what I was saying
Results
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
>>73895458
My data has nothing to do with who your talking about.
sorry
>
Results
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
DAILY REMINDER SHILLS GOT CAUGHT LYING ABOUT THIS LINK
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
>
Results
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
>>73895529
>>73895478
KEK.
"Dhejne: Yes! It’s very frustrating! I’ve even seen professors use my work to support ridiculous claims. I’ve often had to respond myself by commenting on articles, speaking with journalists, and talking about this problem at conferences. The Huffington Post wrote an article about the way my research is misrepresented. At the same time, I know of instances where ethical researchers and clinicians have used this study to expand and improve access to trans health care and impact systems of anti-trans oppression.
Of course trans medical and psychological care is efficacious. A 2010 meta-analysis confirmed by studies thereafter show that medical gender confirming interventions reduces gender dysphoria."
>Of course trans medical and psychological care is efficacious. A 2010 meta-analysis confirmed by studies thereafter show that medical gender confirming interventions reduces gender dysphoria.
>Of course trans medical and psychological care is efficacious. A 2010 meta-analysis confirmed by studies thereafter show that medical gender confirming interventions reduces gender dysphoria.
Literally the person you are citing disagrees with your interpretation of her data..
>>73895649
Dhejne has nothing to do with my source m8 and links to 40 separate supporting sources.
try again?
Nobody thinks they aren't mentally ill.
It obviously exists because people are so nuts that they will chop off their donger.
People here just don't think it should be celebrated or accepted. Celebrating and normalizing mental illness helps nobody.
>>73896026
>Dhejne words is final on a paper referencing.
Cecilia Dhejne,1 Paul Lichtenstein,2 Marcus Boman,2 Anna L. V. Johansson,2 Niklas Långström,2,3 and Mikael Landén
>The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide.
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness that can be treated with anti psychotics.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
I am glad you tranny lovers can see things my way and accept your blown out.
not to mention no one addressed
>>73891269
>>73891173
>>73894071
> "peer reviewed" studies copy/pasted from some thai ladyboy's blog
> pretending you understand the "science" behind those works
> fails to grasp the part where P= > .001 in every one of those "studies"
read this.
http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/slides/generatingContentInterpret/explainPValues.pdf
your "studies" cite statistically insignificant results as if they are proof, despite the difficulty in establish controls in a group of mentally deranged people who want to cut their balls off and have their dicks turned into ersatz pussies.
>>73896321
>Sample size:
>One person with a borderline learning disability
>>73894071
But then how can SRS help with Social discrimination, Legal discrimination and Workplace discrimination?
>>73894386
As a tranny, I am pretty okay with you 'discussing' whether I'm actually a woman. However, don't want to be harassed about it, and it is undeniable that I, as a castrated, estrogenized, female dressed male, cannot be considered the same as normal males in practical terms. Inclusion into female spaces for males like me makes practical sense.
>>73897740
But in the exact same right you never and be considered the same a s a normal female defeating your whole narrative
>>73889180
No, it's not completely fucking natural you potato, it's the product of something going wrong, an illness, a birth defect, what have you. Just because it has a cause, for some of them that doesn't make it any less wrong.
Just trying to say it's not that bad is the same stupid that produced gay pride.
>>73889180
Ok, so trannies should have to prove with brain scans and Mris that they are trannies before being allowed to undergo treatment.
>>73898289
DELETE THIS
>>73898289
But anon, it's xenomorphic to demand for proof, I mean it's 216 isn't it?
>>73889277
>>73889384
yes tranny brains are quantiafably different than health ones, but shouldn't we look for a cure when we can diagnose the effects instead of mutilating them?
>>73898167
Why are you ascribing to me a narrative?
I'm not the same as your average female in a similar way that an intersex mutant isn't the same, but *practically*, if me and that intersex mutant both exist in a physiology currently operating on female hormones, we should be grouped with them rather than your average male.
>>73898710
NO m8 this is saying
I don't fit in with natural women
I don't fit in with natural men
I take female hormones
count me in the natural women groups.
that is the extent of your argument and its nonsensical since you recognize your not going to be accepted by males and yet block out the same thing applies to women.
try again?
>>73889180
>>73889277
Okay so trannies have physically defective brains, and this means that we should mutilate their genitals?
>>73898710
You should be grouped with trannys or your chromosomal gender m8 no if ands or buts
>>73889180
There's nothing natural, it's a mental illness, why don't we treat body dimorphism by cutting off that person's leg?
>>73899040
No, it's saying I fit in better with natural females than natural males, as a castrated, estrogenized, female dressed female identified male.
This isn't rocket science. Rulers assigned eunuchs to guard their harems because they instinctively recognized this fact, and eunuchs weren't even on female hormones.
Similarly a female who is T-raged and appears entirely male is practically better off with the males.
>>73891456
>higher risk
>than the general population
Notice how that doesn't say higher risk than trannies that don't? Right, because all trannies have the higher suicide risk.
It's a shitty solution, yes, but it's still better than nothing.
>>73899163
Not dimorphism, dysphoria
>>73899220
No m8 you are making arbitrary distinction about how much you don't fit in with men versus hoe much you fit in with women and defend it by saying your taking experimental drugs and estrogen. its that simple m8
you have no closer claim to being a female and you now this. You are also under the assumption you HAVE to be lumped or accepted as one of a group when this is not the case
You are a tranny and are neither binary gender or you are what your chromosomes say
>>73889586
Still a fucking mental illness
>>73899228
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
>Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour,
>Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment
> after sex reassignment
>>73890227
Depression is a mental illness though. What's your point? Why are you strawmanning baldness? And why "white men"?
>>73899392
Hormones and gender identity are not arbitrary standards I just made up, hormones impact every corner of your biology. My actual, functioning biology right now is not impacted by my chromosomes other than that I piss out of a protruding pipe.
>>73899268
Dysphoria being related to reassignment is not based on objective science see
>>73891269
>>73891173
>>73890423
>child incapable of consent.
But the child can decide he wants his dick chopped off?
>>73899608
Sorry m8 that does not mean your effect of hormones makes you a women or any closer to it remember m8 gender norms are a social construct. the drugs your taking don't make you closer to a women or a man simply a tranny
>>73889180
None of this refutes what /pol/ says. If you weren't a shill, you'd know what /pol/ says.
>>73889180
>a man who has only experienced being a man >somehow knows that his is actually a woman
epistemic impossibility, no research needed
>>73899491
Compared to non trannies.
Holy fuck you are dense.
>>73889180
Because it changes nothing. Gender roles are appropriate to your biological sex. If your "gender identity" doesn't match your biological sex, your ability to fulfil your gender role is hampered. A person that cannot fill their role in society is, by definition, dysfunctional, and must be corrected. Since there is no science which can turn a man into a woman or vice versa (no, cutting off your dick and changing your hormones does not count) the only option left is to correct your identity to match your biological sex.
>>73899950
No m8 they controlled for them when they were trannies versus the rate after surgery comparing it to non trannys before or after is meaningless when we have the link that their rates went UP specifically after surgery not before
>>73899637
I was asking about the double standard regarding the different purported types of "dysphoria," don't you get pissy with me
>>73899950
Even if it is only compared to non trannies that proves the point
>>73892922
If you think about it, being transgender is completely normal.
>>73899718
Gender norms are a social construct. Sex differences, which are created by hormones, are certainly not a social construct
As a tranny, currently operating under female hormones, with a gender identity of female, I am closer to your average female than your average male. This isn't a debate, this is hard science.
You could take every cell in my body and measure for features of actual, practical dimorphism (see: not the xy chromosomes that are not currently impacting my body) and their sexual dimorphism would be, on average, closer to the female mean than the male mean.
Yes, you massive autist, physically I am not perfectly male or female. That's my point. Neither is an intersex mutant who lives as a woman. But our society and culture really does need you to be grouped among males or females. legally, in public facilities, etc etc.
Practically, both me and the intersex woman are better off grouped with females. This isn't made up, hormones are not irrelevant, they are very real and also the reason you are autistic (test creates autism)
>>73900051
You cannot have a control of non trannies for a comparison of pre op vs non op trannies. The correct control is non op trannies, not regular people.
>>73900178
No, because it's already known that trannies have higher rates period.
>>73900051
Their rates didn't go up. Their rates weren't measured before the surgery. Their rates were simply elevated compared to normal people.
The authors even note this in their discussion you spastic. Dhejne literally explicitly says you can't use her study to argue that SRS doesn't work because that's not what it measures.
>>73900223
So your saying gender behavior is genetic m8 as in gender norms are based I biology?
don't back track now
how so when your chromozones means one thing and your hormones means another and neither are required for gender norms and behavior since they are social constructs m8 your closer to a tranny than anything simple as that. You don't need to be accepting in any of the natural binary genders as you don't have a natural one
>>73900243
nom 8 we take trannys and make give them the surgery they want and then prove they kill themselves for then those that we don't.
>>73900322
no m8 read the fucking study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
>>73900223
>THIS ISN'T A DEBATE, IT'S HARD SCIENCE
>LISTEN AND BELIEVE PEOPLE
I would like to see some proof first.
>>73900223
Let's measure your ovary cells.
Oh, wait...
>>73889384
>I just posted 40+ research articles
How many do you think you can find on already disproved stuff?
Like how many books on nigger's biological inferiority, or on the perils of masturbation do you think you can find?
To understand Gender Identity and Sexual Identity issues you need to look into the history of Queer Theory.
Science can't answer stuff about invented concepts.
>>73900393
Physical features are certainly sexual dimorphic. I don't recall saying anything about behavior but I would wager they are sexually dimorphic as well considering your average female behaves sexually towards males while your average male does the reverse.
My chromosomes mean really nothing practically right now. The Y chromosome signals for androgens to create testes, scrotum and penis. Right now it doesn't do jack shit.
Yes I really do need to be grouped as male or female considering our society only recognizes those two legally.
>>73899949
>2016
>Material Realm
pleb
>>73889180
Baldness isn't a mental illness because it isn't to do with the mind.
You realise that pretty much all mental illnesses have genetic predisposition, right?
Natural =/= Not mental illness
>>73889180
Not sure OP is still around. Pretty sure this will get ignored but just because something happens in the brain does not mean it's natural.
I'd argue that any number of life events can leave mental trauma therefore altering that persons perception and brain chemistry. Not including any number of physical trauma (including drugs) that can alter these states.
Just because something happens in the brain does not mean it happens in normal people or in society or anywhere else for that matter. For example, schizophrenia happens completely naturally and mostly genetic. Does that mean schizo's are normal? NO.
The fact that these studies largely pander to trans people tells me there is a massive bias on some professors part. A bias that was unaccounted for. Which leaves this study in a completely sad state if it was done over the course of a 25 year period.
>In nearly every location where researchers have discovered sexually dimorphic brain structures, transgender people reveal their brains do not match the standard layout for their birth sex.
This does not matter. Trannies tend to put massive amounts of drugs in their bodies and many undergo a massive amount of mental trauma and sometimes physical trauma throughout their lives. There are any number of reasons a guy can have similar (not exact) brain chemistry as a female, and vice versa.
I'm not even a scientist... just a grad student and I can pull this weak study apart like it's nothing. I can only imagine this shit is laughed at upon the scientific community.
>>73900628
>2016
>Still doesn't get the sanctity of matter
mega pleb
>>73899718
tbqh I think the genderfluid faggots that think gender is 100% opinions and not based on reality are retarded. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck and smells like a duck it's a duck even if it self identifies as a pigeon, but at the same time I disagree that "man" or "woman" is this immutable cosmological property, if someone made a humanoid robot that can pass the turing test and successfully trick you into thinking it's a person then most people will accept it as a person even if it's just a robot, because for them the definition of a person is "I recognize that as a person".
I don't think you can have a set definition for "a woman" it's just a group of properties that tend to cluster together and something doesn't necessarily need to possess all of them in order to be considered "a woman" by ordinary people.
>>73889180
>There is 25 years of research into sexual dimorphism in the brain.
oh it's you again
you still haven't shown how this is 100% genetic and not influenced by the environment
for all we know, the brain patterns can be shaped through brainwashing
>>73900275
Trannies are less happy and more at risk, therefore we should help more of them to stop being trans. Any effort to do so is irreparably hampered by, for example, permanently mutilating their genitals until they can no longer live as their actual gender. Q E fucking D.
>>73900704
there's very obvious biological differences in women and men
>>73889180
>2. There is 15+ years of research exploring how these dimorphic areas present in tranny brains.
so? That shit is easily explainable by the differences in masculine and feminine brains rather than "identity"
Even if there was a physical cause for it, that doesn't mean that transwomen are in fact women, merely that we know why they think they are.
>>73900628
I could of course be wrong; maybe trannies are a uniquely enlightened bunch that have access to the eternal forms, and can measure their experience against platonic womanness, and so establish that yes, they are women.
>>73889180
>Being transgender is a completely natural phenomenon
so is alzheimers
>>73900393
im not that tranny you're speaking with but holy fuck it's YOU'RE you fucking retard, and stop using "m8" so much you meme-spouting fuck
so hard to take your arguments seriously when you type like a downy
>>73894672
This this this this this
If people can change their chromosomes, why don't we just cure Downs Syndrome? Oh, right...
Being Schizophrenic is a complete natural phenomenon of chemical balance in the brain. If you deny this you are denying empirical and rational observation from dozens more sources than your precious resources on transgenderism.
Being Schizophrenic is no more a mental illness than baldness is. It's a physiological condition that causes mental issues till treatment.
>this is how you sound
Protip, something being natural does not make it "good."
>>73889277
>this is a fact
yes it is but that does not mean they are the opposite sex. Guess what? there are studies that show the exact same thing for homosexuals. The dimorphism merely has to do with masculinity and femininity.
>>73900795
There are also very obvious biological differences between men and robots but for many people their definition of person is such that a sufficiently complex robot may be able to satisfy it. Although they may not be able to elucidate why they consider it a person, it's just "it feels like a person", but the robot can trick their brains.
It's more about outward appearances than substance, you can falsely categorize a transwoman as a woman but the fact that he managed to fool you is indicative of the fact that he had what it takes to trick you.
>>73893190
>there is literally no better outcome bar an actual cure.
Death is the only cure for such irreparable damage done to the human brain.
>>73900769
Please, if you found a better cure pass it along.
What you are saying is we have a solution that shaves a % off the top of this disease death rate, but the disease has a higher death rate than normal people without it, so we should not use the current treatment in the interim.
>>73900467
Alright darling autist child. I read your precious little study and here is a quote pulled from it
>it is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality the ). It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality
See, darling, this is why we think and read about the things we claim. It's a really good thing to do!
>>73901172
>for many people their definition of person is such that a sufficiently complex robot may be able to satisfy it.
No it isn't, stop jewing, Turing test is simply a "final line" for describing when an AI has "human intelligence", its also failed as fuck in that if i were to create a fake facebook account and connect its messages with an Eliza bot, i would probably fool 3/4 of the people the bot talks to. This doesn't mean the bot is human-like intelligent, it means the fooling is very carefully made by constricting the interaction to a very controlled minimum.
In no way does turing test mean "like human".
tl;dr:
If you put your dick through a hole and it gets sucked by someone wearing lipstick, the fact that you don't know if it was a man or a woman doesn't make it a woman.
>>73889180
1. Research on sexual dimorphism is NOT research on transexuality and many of those are reputable articles having noting at all to do with your point
2. Not a single one of those Transpeople "research articles" shows a reference to it being published in a peer reviewed scientific journal, not a single one.
Sexual dimorphism means that males and females are different, not interchangeable.
>>73901240
Well for once giving them an open wound that bring major health risks does not help in anyway.
Secondly we need to make absolutely certain that this doesn't spare to stupid kids, we make it clear it's a mental/biological problem.
And thirdly we need to ask how much does it really help and we must try again.
>>73901454
So what you are saying is that there is no proof it increases suicide rate. But neither that it lowers it.
In the absence of a proven positive effect on the suicide rate, how about we don't mutilate people.
>>73900700
>Worshiping Illusion
Wew Lad
>>73900223
> I am closer to your average female than your average male
that does not mean you are female
>You could take every cell in my body and measure for features of actual, practical dimorphism (see: not the xy chromosomes that are not currently impacting my body) and their sexual dimorphism would be, on average, closer to the female mean than the male mean.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080616-gay-brain.html
that's just because you're an effeminate faggot, not because you're magically somehow really a woman in your soul.
> hormones are not irrelevant, they are very real
But the difference is that you have to artificially take hormones to look feminine, your body doesn't naturally produce them at those levels.
It's 9 o'clock in Tel Aviv right now. You should have gone home by now, Schlomo.
>>73901240
There's no research into the direction of an actual fucking cure, moron. We're content to simply snip their dicks off and dig a hole.
If you even imply that transgenderism is something that should be cured you're immediately a bigoted privileged transphobic shitlord.
>>73901688
According to that single study. There are plenty of other studies that show that it helps with lowering suicidal behavior and improves adjustment. The article he linked discusses a few of those as well.
Trust me, the docs aren't giving trannies hormones because of DA joos. They're doing it because it's reasonable.
>>73901702
>matter
>illusion
>not just a language trap
kek
>>73889277
0.2%
Society has no moral or ethical responsibility to cater to the whims of this small of a population.
>>73889180
You are a fucking psychopath and a dangerous threat to the western society.
You should kill yourself.
>>73901845
>They're doing it because it's reasonable.
They are doing it because it lets them research on weird stuff like penis-to-vagina surgery
>>73901761
I never said it meant I was female. What does it matter whether the hormones come from ovies or from a pill? My functioning biology is what is important for the immediacy of the situation.
I literally can't produce testosterone and would have to be injected with it. How about that bud?
>>73901652
oops, meant to respond to >>73889277
This biblography really just seems to be one of those shotgun attempts to force your argument forward and make people accept unproven research by citing barely even tangentially related research in front of it to establish authority.
Anyone who has actually had to read journal articles can look at this and easily see through it.
>>73889180
some people are more prone to mental ilnesses genetically. Everything has a scientific explanation ofcourse being a huge faggot or a tranny is natural. You cant artifically create faggotry. Someone can born a faggot because of genes but this doesnt make it less degenerate or acceptable. Someone also can be a degenrate faggot even if he/she doesnt have the gene. The fact that it is a mental ilness doesnt change.
>>73889586
Holy mother fuck. Ivan looks a lot better as Ivanka there.
If it makes OP and the posters here feel better, I am now convinced most transexuals are simply different people. Not male and only somewhat female (or vice versa).
Although I didn't read much of the argument beforehand so I might be easy to convince. I've always believed genetics are important in who you are and I don't doubt that genetics can result in uncommon people.
>>73901845
Tell that to all the people that got lobotomized in the 30's and 40's
This is the same fucking thing and no one notices because they can't step back and get perspective.
>>73902482
Just gay males and the magic of technology
>>73901845
I see a bunch of studies with too small groups, so trashed. They say as much in the linked article.
One sufficiently big Dutch study on only hormones, comparing only to genpop.
There is in other words no data with regards to surgery and suicide, compared to non surgery and suicide.
If you think doctors wouldn't do these things if they weren't certain it won't be harmful, I'll direct you to dr. John Money.
>>73900611
No m8 there is more than one gender m8 you need to educate yourself in 2016 you will always be given the option of not specifying in any legal documentation m8
>>73889180
Proof of mental illness does not make a tranny the opposite sex, it's just proof of a fucked up brain. Ideally trannies would be locked up away from the rest of society to reduce the possibility of naive healthy people thinking they are a tranny just because the life appears glamorous to them or trannies spreading their genes.
This shit only manages to make otherwise healthy people sick in an attempt to make the unhealthy happy. It's only going to be destructive in the long run.
>>73901503
Yes, it is. If I build a perfect AI and put it inside robot human body it can live in society undetected. People will consider it human even after they learn it's a robot, because their emotions will treat it as a person.
>if i were to create a fake facebook account and connect its messages with an Eliza bot, i would probably fool 3/4 of the people the bot talks to
Eliza bot is retarded. One message and I can already tell she's a robot.
>In no way does turing test mean "like human".
You misunderstood me. The test is not supposed to entitle and AI with humanity nor do I think it should, but by definition of the test, if an AI passes the test then it means it must've caused some guy to believe he's talking to a real human. Whether or not the researcher conducting the test who has seen past the veil thinks so is a different matter. The fact that a robot can pass the test means that "what humans consider a person to be" is not necessarily the same as what you and I consider an "actual person" to be.
>>73902016
>I never said it meant I was female.
If you're not female you're not a woman
>What does it matter whether the hormones come from ovies or from a pill?
Becuase if you have to take hormones to look a certain way it's artificial. It's not your natural body, you have to inject chemicals to get it to look that way.
>I literally can't produce testosterone and would have to be injected with it. How about that bud?
Only because you chopped off your reproductive organs because you're mentally ill.
>>73901454
Yes m8 it is saying it could not control for all variables so it is only per se the same can be said about any counter evidence as well m8 making the science conflicted which is my original point.
The effective ness of the treatment is not objectively been proven either way
>>73901680
It is a reduction in the suicide rate for non trannies, just not a big enough drop, and especially not a normalized to non trannies level.
I agree on the kids 100% especially when you consider the gender fluid trend claims of being trans.
I also agree a better solution should be researched, nobody cares to though because it profits leftist and feminist bullshit to tour trannies as the next stepping stone of progress.
>>73901812
I'm well aware of this. You can thank feminists. They lobbied to cut all funds towards tranny research because it conflicted with gender being a social construct.
Also stop caring about being called names, it gives them power.
DAILY REMINDER SHILLS GOT CAUGHT LYING ABOUT THIS LINK
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
>
Results
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
>>73889180
I know Transexuals are degenerate and gay but I don't want to live in a world withouth them
>>73890478
This is where my disagreement with you is, and that is the definition of baseline. The baseline brain for a human with XY chromosomes is a male-like brain (likewise for XX and females). If it deviates from this baseline, it is a illness of the brain, also known as a mental disorder.
>>73903052
Why? Are you infatuated by boipucc?
Okay whatever do whatever you want just don't talk to me
>>73889180
>cutting off or adding a dick to yourself isn't a mental illness
>>73903158
Y-yes
;_;
I don't know why the idea of a qt girl having a penis turns me on so much
>>73903373
Because you are gay
>>73903541
;_;
But I don't find masculine men attractive and I also like girls
>>73903373
;-;;
I'm sort of in the same boat. I still like girls and all that, but real women are so disgusting these days I find myself fancying the allure of these sissy semen demons. Sometimes I find myself thinking they're even better at being women than real women. It's all so fucked up at the end of the day I don't even bother thinking about it any more.
>>73889180
What are heterosomes?
>>73904161
Google it faggot
>>73889180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E04cLDvZHFU
>>73904003
>I don't even bother thinking about it anymore
This this so much
I just fap, at some point I stopped fapping to girls too
Its kinda sad
>>73904246
You win this time
>Being transgender is a completely natural phenomenon of intersexuality of the brain
>Being transgender is no more a mental illness than baldness is.
these do not logically follow each other. gender dysphoria is a natural consequence of a rare genetic fuckup that results in differences in brain structure. it is also a mental illness.
also, it doesn't "cause mental illness until it is treated". it IS a mental illness, and it causes SYMPTOMS which according to the largest, most exhaustive science we have on the subject DOES NOT GO AWAY WITH TREATMENT AND MAY WELL BE MADE WORSE.
>>73904003
Not gay at all, it's actually normal for straight men to desire to sexually dominate a feminine-looking male. Faggots exist for a reason and there are evolutionary explanations to why they exist.
>>73904859
Yeah explain that to my friends
>Anon which is your favorite pornstar
>All of them have penises
>heh I don't know
>>73903700
>>73904373
What do you like about them?
How is transgender scene in Costa Rica?
>>73905909
>Costa Rica?
I imagine fat and hairy with a sombrero and a wig and clown lipstick but I dont know much about costa rica.
>>73905308
>They're mostly conservative;
>Generally smarter than the average female;
>Submissive and idolize a straight-man's cock like it's Saint Phallus.
>Bro-tier.
Brazil used to be pretty backwards when it comes to faggots, specially where I live which is overwhelmingly Protestant. The population naturally adapted to them with no government indoctrination at all (this was never discussed by the media to begin with), it came spontaneously overtime.
They exist and they'll continue to exist because they're part of human nature, and every straight man enjoys it, either secretly or openly.
>>73906115
>Brazil used to be pretty backwards when it comes to faggots, specially where I live which is overwhelmingly Protestant. The population naturally adapted to them with no government indoctrination at all (this was never discussed by the media to begin with), it came spontaneously overtime.
>They exist and they'll continue to exist because they're part of human nature, and every straight man enjoys it, either secretly or openly.
They age like milk tho senpai, do they not?
>>73889180
go suck some dicks until you get AIDs OP
you have my permission, go forth and die with no regrets.
You insufferable faggot.
>>73906421
I'm not sure how much I hate trannies desu desu.
They are basically the anti-wymyn.
They get almost all the benefits of a female without all the negatives. Put it this way, I'd rather be around some racist trannies in an office setting than pic related.
In fact, I think if in a "would you rather" situation I'd go trap over any of pic related.
>>73906287
Not at all, they age like any other person.
"Roberta Close" is a famous Brazilian transwoman born in 1964 who left Brazil to live in Switzerland to avoid ostracization. She completely changed the scene of transsexuals in the country. She was no activist, just lived her life as a woman and that's it. I remember my parents trash-talking her, the TV and all, she was trashed a lot. The fact that she was based and still left the country to avoid persecution is probably what made people change their minds about transsexuals.
Currently married with children, still living in happily in Switzerland.
>>73889180
lol, all you had to do was watch Fight Club
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken"
Couldnt have been more succinct.
