How old were you when you realized there was no evidence for a deity?
>>73347253
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
>>73347311
Yes, it is.
14
>>73347253
Probably like 9. But that's the point of faith, when you're in a situation like >>73347311.
>>73347336
Liberal education everyone
>>73347336
No it's not. No one has found evidence of big foot, but that doesn't strictly say he isn't real.
>>73347404
I translate faith literally to gullibility. Religion is the one subject that allows conservatives to get emotional and ignore reason.
>>73347336
if a tree falls in the woods but no one is around does it make a sound
checkmate athiest
>>73347336
kek, no it isn't
Consider this:
A mathemetician is setting out to prove some theorem. At this point in time, the thorem has yet to be proven true. Say after a year, he figures out a proof. Now, during the year when there was no proof, was the thorem true or false?
>>73347537
>muh religion is used to control
Nice meme.
>>73347506
>No one has found evidence of big foot
There are evidence of big foot but all are inconclusive
>>73347253
You don't need evidence, everybody knows that God Exists, Romans 1:18-20
>>73347253
I feel warm inside while praying, that good evidence for me
>>73347253
14ish? How ever old I was at my Confirmation (I was Catholic).
>>73347253
10
>>73347311
there is no evidence that a rock with my name on it doesnt orbits the sun. doesnt mean there is one
Since I was conceived. DAY 1 BABY, miss me on that fake shit.
>>73347643
for citing the bible, first prove bible is true please
your very existence.
>>73347537
No how Christians define faith, but a professed Atheist just couldn't understand in their world view.
>>73347498
As compared to what - your non-education?
>>73347537
Yes, yes it is. Absence of the evidence of big foot means that you have no proper means to verify the claim and must reject it. It doesn't mean evidence can't be presented later but it's not something that can be accepted.
>>73347592
Consider this:
A mathemetician is setting out to prove some theorem. At this point in time, the thorem has yet to be proven true. People act as if it's true because they have faith in it. Wars are fought over which version of the theorem is correct. People shitpost on 4chan on whether the theorem is correct. Say proof is never found. Now, during the thousands, and likely infinite, years when there was no proof, was the theorem true or false?
Does it matter?
>>73347795
Okay we are both going into this with differing assumptions, so before we can get to that, we have to meet at a common ground, how do you define truth?
>>73347311
wut?
>>73347253
When I was 8 or 9. In church they were talking about how god was infinite and all powerful. Then they were talking about how god was in an eternal battle with the devil. It didn't make sense to me that an all powerful being could be "battling" something that he made. He could end it with a thought, but he doesn't. That's where the cracks in the foundation of my faith formed.
>>73347537
>Religion is the one subject that allows conservatives to get emotional and ignore reason.
So is race.
>>73347895
I get organized religion is trash poo poo garbage, but a general lack of evidence for a proposition is still not a conclusive proof for that proposition being false.
>>73347614
It would be a worse meme if religion wasn't used to control people.
>>73347810
I don't really care how Christians define faith as they believe things without evidence. Maybe they should stop using their 'hearts' and start using their brains.
>>73347592
Until the theorem was proven you would incorrect to accept it.
>>73347643
Not only do I not know that one or multiple deities exist but it seems to go against everything we know in nature.
>>73347644
> I feel warm inside while praying, that good evidence for me
Ah liberal logic.
>>73347592
Then i am gonna say that theres gonna be proof in the future that Jesus(if he ever existed, which i highly doubt) was gay, what now?
>>73347555
Yes, because sound is just the recording of certain wavelengths.
>>73348186
>Until the theorem was proven you would incorrect to accept it.
It's also incorrect to assume it is false.
what about fine tuning?
>>73348278
You can not disprove that an alien named Bob created the universe, doesnt mean its true.
>>73347253
Pretty young, actually. Around 12 or so. But then I realized 15 years later that I was wrong.
>>73348186
Okay Read the verse i gave you, what is your problem with it,
>>73348365
What fine tuning? We arent fine tunned, we have blind spots in vision and we can choke on food because we breath through the same pipe we eat. There are a lot of fails in your gods fine tuning then
>>73348278
It's in a state of 'nothingness.' Unicorns, pixies and Christian deities could all "be true" but without evidence we have nothing but a big zero.
>>73348210
then I'd challenge you to actually prove that. Until you do, we can't conclusively say if Jesus was a homosex or not. Based on the bible, I'd say he wasn't, but that's not exactly evidence.
>>73348478
Before reading it you need to prove the bible is true. You cant use Harry Potter book to prove its truth
>>73348478
That it's not true. I have no reason to think deities are real and claiming we already know is basically throwing a temper tantrum.
>God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that.
God is within us. God is a human creation that represents our inner potential.
Look into Joseph Campbell, he will change the way you think about spirituality.
>>73348520
First prove that bible is true. By the way, i was referring to his argument that there may be some arguments for it in the future.
>>73348492
I love you, friendo
>>73348401
highly unlikely, but I can't write it off.
>>73348492
more of a state of unknown rather than zero.
>>73348675
>not exactly evidence
can't you read?
>>73348278
It is also incorrect to state that it is true. This makes it unfalsifiable, which essentially makes it a useless proposition.
>>73348782
yes, the point is you have to be agnostic about it.
>>73348544
Have you read it still, before we move on. Ill provide it to you.
Roman 1:18-20
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
so just to start off, me and you both have a differing world view each with our own assumptions of the world, so we will have to make a common ground before we can reason anything. lets start with how do you define Truth
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
>>73348480
just a argument i saw when i was going though some videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjGPHF5A6Po
>>73348821
No, you don't. Following that, you don't know anything in life
>>73347253
>edgelord detected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01uqLpLkHvY
>>73348920
It is a shit argument, and there are many more like that
>>73348581
okay we have differing world views that would make reasoning difficult, so we have to meet at common grounds, give me your definition of truth.
>>73348920
It's a pretty common argument. Of course, it's also a really bad one.
About 9.
Definitely looped back into it until I hit puberty though, then got right back out.
>>73348930
I know that I have perception. I know I can interact with the world. I know that 100/100 times if I were to drop a pen I would percieve that it falls to the ground.
>>73348977
Someone's buttmad
>>73349027
the truth : the real facts about something : the things that are true
Its irrelevant for me.
I just know one thing, jews and muslims are more dangerous than Christians.
And eastern religions are bat shit insane.
>>73349153
Um, so what's you point?
>>73348821
Not at all, the entire thing should be ignored until more information is available. Religion, however, assumes that there is and makes predictions and actions on this assumption. Which is wrong, as this prediction is based on nothing.
It isn't like a regular prediction, like where a goalkeeper has too guess where the free kick is gonna go. There are set parameters there. He has to aim for the goal, so you have set parameters with the variable being WHERE in the goal he's aiming for. The religious prediction, however, is nothing but a variable. It's like trying to guess the exact number of people on a street from another country.
>>73349239
Would you agree to the definition that which corresponds to reality?
How do you guys differ between scientology, christianity, islam and every single religion that has ever existed? How do i know Christianity is true?
>>73349320
We were discussing the case of a proposition which has yet to be proved. There are loads of propositions which have been proved true. In the case of a proposition which has not yet been proven nor disproven, one musn't assume it is true or false.
>>73349403
I guess, yeah, never really thought about that. Not ones personal reality, but the ultimate reality
>mfw I was raised without religion so don't have all these weird hang ups about god always watching me, being guilty about my own thoughts, letting down my parents, ect that every other human on earth seems to have
>>73349493
Thats not how the world works, pal
If you claim something, you need evidence for it and im yet to see the evidence for god. I can claim a lot of absurd things that cant be disproven, doesnt mean they are true
>>73347253
How old were you when you realized that the creation of the universe doesn't make any sense without it?
>>73349493
Could you also address this?
>>73349426
>>73349704
How do you know that?
>>73349388
we are discussing the existence of evidence of a general deity, not one specified by a religion. A lot of claims religions make are baseless, I will agree with you there.
If you believe in a God, you ought to be a deist such that you aren't constrained by religious dogma.
>>73349538
Yes, everyone has their own reality that could be copetely warped to the true reality, like you could have a mental illness were you look at flowers and think their blue, but in reality they are red. So in your world view, i assume atheism/agnosticism, can you be ultimately sure that your not a crazy person looking at the flowers in the wrong reality?
>>73347253
9-10ish
15 when I realized the importance of having one.
>>73349704
>creation of the universe
>creation
How do you know it was created?
>inb4 big bang
>>73348663
+1
Campbell did a fantastic job of rehabilitating religion for our modern age, amplifying all the spiritual benefits while removing all the baggage that made the religion struggle with rationalism and naturalism.
>>73349776
I ssomewhat did here
>>73349868
>>73348424
You weren't wrong. You just gave up on yourself and let yourself become complacent as your life turned to shit.
>>73349871
Well flowers are much different from what we are talking about. I can hold a bottle of coke in my hand and ask people what it is, if 99.999% answer coke, that means its true. I believe my sense because they are proven to be reliable.
>>73349868
>we are discussing the existence of evidence of a general deity
There is no evidence either way, which makes all discussion near useless as any characteristic you can think of cannot be distanced properly from imagination.
>>73347253
Faith is essential for any religion, and any ideology
Pls go
On one side:
>Blah Jesus blah Jesus blah
>Okay that's cool, look, I'm gonna go-
>BLAH BLAH BLAH JESUS JESUS JESUS BLAH BLAH BLAH
>I heard you, man, I'm Christian now, you ca-
>JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS
On the other side:
>Dawkins said that penguins buffalo hullabaloo
>Okay that's cool, look, I'm gonna go-
>GOD ISN'T REAL SHITLORD ARGLE BARGLE MY ANUS GARGLED
>I heard you, man, I'm atheist now, you ca-
>NOGODNOGODNOGODNOGODNOGODNOGODNOGODNOGODNOGODNOGOD
Two groups that aren't much different in terms of behavior. All they need is a slap to the mouth if they don't listen.
Doesn't need to be. The existence of a deity is not falsifiable. Evidence is for scientific pursuits. It's actually far more ridiculous to assert that aliens are real than to believe in a deity because aliens would be part of the natural "world" thus are falsifiable.
>>73349871
Also, we could be, but untill you present some evidence that we are, it just stays on that
>>73348663
literally saw this grid while tripping
>>73350133
But your senses can deceive you, is there any way you can ultimately know with certainty that your senses are working properly, and that you are not the crazy person having a scitzo moment?
>>73347311
the scientific method must confuse you greatly
>>73349825
Do you seriously believe that the universe was created because energy was concentrated in a spherical shape (where did it come from?) and for whatever reason while in equilibrium decided to go allahu ackbar takbir and just out of sheer luck or randomness it gave birth to the macrocosm (galaxies), which in turn out of sheer luck had the ideal condition to generate life that didn't exist prior to that and he same life forms evolved to complexity just because nature played the roulette and won
Does this sound like a reasonable theory?
Note that I don't advocate for Christianity here, I'm just saying that creation out of randomness and inexplainable starting point sound worse than a deity with immense power to do so
Also, have you ever witnessed anything on a micro-scale that could give credit to the Big Bang?
>>73350367
I agree they can be wrong, but prove me that i am a scitzo.
>>73350189
But can you trust evidence if you cannot be completely certain of being able to evaluate the evidence in your world view?
>>73350134
pretty much yeah
>>73350480
What i believe doesnt matter, we are discussing existance of god.
Just because we currently dont know 100% what happened doesnt mean god dun didit.
7
>>73350484
If you were scitzo, how could i prove it to you?
>>73349884
Ok genius, if it wasn't created deity and wasn't big banged how did it came to be?
13
>>73350480
Also, i am not ashamed to admit i dont know how the universe started.
>>73350618
"I don't know and you probably don't either therefore IT HAD TO" is this supposed to be your point?
>>73350618
WE JUST DON'T KNOW
humans have such limited knowledge accept that.
>>73350618
Maybe it always existed.
>>73350604
By presenting evidence
>>73350565
And I am just saying from what we know and what we hypothesize, the God factor makes the equation possible.
Again, do not confuse the God of religions and a deity that could make the creation. The representation of God by the religions is millennia outdated
>>73348920
Science has no opinion on the existence of God.
People will say
>Quantum Mechanics proves God!
>Quantum mechanics proves we don't need God
Science has no opinion. Scientists however, do have opinions.
You're not going to find God with science unless you've already decided that you're going to find him. You're not going to find a proof that God doesn't exist with science unless you've already decided that you don't want to find him.
Humans aren't rational, we make our conclusions and fit everything to match our world view. No one is above this.
>>73350735
Here is the defintion of schizophrenia
a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation.
(in general use) a mentality or approach characterized by inconsistent or contradictory elements.
under this definition how would i display evidence that you could understand?
>>73350889
The representation of God by the religions is millennia outdated
>i respect you
And I am just saying from what we know and what we hypothesize, the God factor makes the equation possible.
>but the world we live in looks pretty much similar to the one without a god, doesnt it? Also, you are irreligious, right?
>>73350899
That said, some validity to the Bible(specifically the book of Daniel) is considerable considering it predicted the coming of Alexander the Great some 400 years before he was born, with details about him having a short lifespan and his empire being split into 4 kingdoms(pic related) after his death.
>>73350965
Just transfer the information to me, via shitty english language, just like i am doing right now.
>>73351072
Predictions =! proof
Btw, show me the passages that include predictions
>>73350480
>concentrated in a spherical shape
Well, duh. If you pull on every surface of a 3f object with equal force it'll form a sphere.
>and for whatever reason while in equilibrium
Who says it was?
>and out of sheer luck created the macrocosm
If it wasn't this macrocosm, it would be some other kind of macrocosm. It didn't have to be like this.
>out of sheer luck had the conditions for life
First of all, you think nothing would happen in 14 and a half billion years? That's a really bloody long time you know. A lot of things can happen. Next up, you're talking about life as we know it here. There could be other kinds we don't know about. If it wasn't us it could've been something else.
>that didn't exist prior to that
How is this relevant?
>and the life forms evolved to complexity
And all it took was three and a half billion years, with 99% of all of that life dying off.
>Does this sound like a reasonable theory?
Everything looks unreasonable when you make it out of straw.
>>73350704
>>73350691
Well all I am saying is just because we both can't be sure, it's up to each one's reasoning. You can disprove what you cannot prove 100% wrong.
So screw the fedoras, screw the bible thumpers, and keep your views to yourself. This convo never leads to anywhere because philosophically can go both ways. It ultimately depends on how one can rationalize things.
>>73351128
So do you admit that you cant know the truth?
>>73350889
No, God doesn't make any of it possible.
The only thing the God factor does is sate the curiosity of your tiny brain that doesn't and will never understand events such as the Big Bang.
Now, the shortcoming of your argument is that you make the false assumption that the Big Bang (or however the universe came to exist, I don't give a shit) needs to make sens in YOUR head before you can start believing it.
Have you ever heard of quantum theory? It is the most successful theory in human history, yet to this day no one understands WHY things work the way they do on a micro scale.
The difference between science and religitardism is that science can say "we just don't know" whereas theists say "hurr it MUST be god since nothing else can explain it."
Do you get it yet?
>>73347253
>How old were you when you realized there was no evidence for a deity?
the very first time anyone brought it up, of course.... didn't take anytime at all to realize, YOU STUPID FUCKING MORON
TRY SCIENCE YOU FUCKING IDIOT ROBOT
>>73350618
I'm sorry, I'm not able to look back before time existed to tell you. But that doesn't mean you can pull rancid shit out of your ass and stick it where it doesn't belong.
>>73351257
Not always, but i am 100% certain that god of the religions doesnt exist
>>73351254
You seem to be the smartest person around here
>>73351305
>vents such as the Big Bang.
ANOTHER FUCKING ROBOT BOY, HAHAHAHAHA
Use your tiny fucking brain to figure that out you piece of shit
>>73351385
How do you know that, if you cant know truth in your world view?
>>73351198
Book of Daniel Chapter 8
4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise.
24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people.
25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
cont.
>>73347311
Oh shit damn you're right I guess god actually is real then.
>>73351470
By the evidence presented.
absolute certainty is an useless concept.
>>73351618
But you cant use logic to prove your logic cna you?
>>73351499
Cool story m8.
>>73351257
>>73351257
There are assumptions and axioms everyone has to make because without them there would be no accurate predictions. What if reality was a monitored simulation, and everything decided to fuck up overnight? What if gravity stopped working tomorrow? What if 1 wasn't equal to 1? All of these are assumptions based on the evidence we see before us. THAT is truth. What happens in what we define as reality, the interaction of everything around us.
absence of evidence is always a personal problem, and many tiny droid roms dwelleth here
>>73351685
hey, you asked for it:
Daniel 8 highlights
>The goat stands for the king of Greece.
so it must be a Greek king
>The large horn between his eyes is the first king.
Alexander
>20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Alexander conquered Media and Persia
>22 Four horns took its place when it was broken off. They stand for four kingdoms that will come from his nation. But those kingdoms will not be as powerful as his.
When Alexander died, his nation split into 4 kingdoms: The Ptolemaic Kingdom, the Seleucid Empire, Kingdom of Pergamon, and Macedonia.
also the part that says
>24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power.
is referring to Alexander's father, Philip II. Alexander had everything needed for world conquest handed to him by his daddy.
>25 ...Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
Alexander died not in combat, but from disease.
>>73351679
Um, why not?
At 22 I was seriously questioning things. By 26 I lacked all belief.
>>73351687
are you an atheist?
>>73351687
I agree
>>73351844
Why yes, not that it's relevant.
>>73351831
thus now, the edgy borg fates
>>73351687
>What if reality was a monitored simulation
is there really any difference between suggesting that and saying it was created by a deity?
>>73351499
>21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia:
I thought Alexander was the king of Macedonia, not of "Grecia"?
>and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king
Sorry, what? For a supposed "prophecy" -- and we have no proof that any of this was written before Alexander the Great was alive in any case -- this is all maddeningly vague. Why talk about "goats" when you can just say, "a guy named Alexander is going to conquer half the known world really soon" and make it clear?
>>73351910
Um yeah, a lot. What if a more advanced race did it, and they are not deities.
>>73351056
>tfw I found an interesting convo, it's 6 am, I'm still drunk, wrote a fucking tome and Safari crashed
We will have the convo another time, kebab removing bro
>>73352072
Would be nice, man
>>73351930
it's a new hipster mental fuckjob by proffs the faggots threaded ear from, and yes you are correct
you know the new little fuckbrains think being smart is repeating stupid shit overpaid asshole gurgle up for their own ego pleasures
another similar is the alien seeding, which brings about another big bang god the droidtards can dream about
>>73351753
logic is a thing you use to figure things out, how can you use the same tool to figure out a tool to figure things out
I dont know which one, but i assume that is some kind of logical fallacy, so in your world view, can you prove anything to be true?
>>73351930
We assume that it isn't, because then any parameter of what we know can change at any time without warning or reason. This has yet to happen, so the assumption still holds.
Also, why does it have to be a diety? Could it not be the aether? An alien race? Beings on a higher dimensional wavelength or some shit? The possibilities are literally endless, which is why we don't bother looking.
>>73351248
>>73351305
You revere a hypothesis as if it were a religious text, which just as the same haven't been proven
You do realize that you are quite the zealots, right?
>>73351896
but it is, me and you have differing world views, so it would be hard for us to throw evidence at each other without coming to a common definition of truth.
>>73348186
>they believe things without evidence
But everyone does this. You could not be a functional human being without doing this....
>>73352188
Can you know the absolute truth, then? If not, why bother arguing with me.
>>73352331
Why not?
>>73352333
so you admit that in your world view that you cant ultimately know anything to be true?
>>73352305
Wew lad, I don't think I can handle all that damage control.
>>73352014
what if the sun ate the moon and it was still lit anyway YOU FUCKING MORON
You still have the universe and living sentient beings, and any hipster atheist explanation banged results in you are absolutely powerless and mindless, a mere rolling atomic turdball programmed by the "laws of nature" and yes, atheists, being so god damned stupid brag about their big bang beliefs, which by their own system they cannot personally receive any credit for whatsoever, and they likely do not understand why to this very moment
>>73352434
I judge things by the evidence presented in out, mutual world view with the things we agree on are true.
>>73352321
World views have nothing to do with truth. If I only see white ducks all my life, and conclude that all ducks are white, it would not make that the truth. Truth is the observations we make based on the information we gain from interaction with the environment, in this case the universe as we know it.
>>73349906
>all the baggage that made the religion struggle with rationalism and naturalism.
You seem, like many others to group all religions into a relatively narrow strip of territory usually occupied by a certain set of American Protestant doctrines. Does the fact that modern science and philosophy came out of the Christian tradition not phase you?
>>73351932
Because the prophecies in the Bible are mostly based on interpretations.
>>73352188
It's not a logical fallacy. Logic has been proven to be trustworthy enough for us to build almost everything on it. It produces results, and that proves logic works.
>>73352549
so you admit that in your world view that you cant ultimately know anything to be true?
Yes or No
>>73347253
5, my grandmother redpilled me on death and i instantly realised there is no deity. havent changed my views only expanded upon them.
>>73352471
I dont know how universe starded, and i am not ashamed to admit it. But if by LAWS OF NATURE you mean evolution or some shit, i totally believe that, since A FUCKING TON of evidence is presented
Allahu Akbar!
The U.S. must take Monroe Doctrine now.
The U.S. must withdraw American Forces from all Foreign Countries now.
I love American99% and the U.S.
Japan, Germany and China are evil empires.
Allahu Akbar!
>>73352604
So you believe that logic can prove logic, wew lad
>>73352453
>>6:17 am and drunk
Yeah, not gonna happen. Still my point stands, you revere a HYPOTHESIS, you are as credible as a bible thumper.
Just admit that your religion is atheism
>>73352245
>We assume that it isn't, because then any parameter of what we know can change at any time without warning or reason. This has yet to happen, so the assumption still holds.
your logic completely fails because if a being controls the sim, and changes any parameter, it may change it for all time, past present and future, and you'd never know it changed
so you claim a key piece of evidence which is pure fantasy in that regard
i wouldn't mind if one of you JACKASSES came up with a solid argument, but worse than that, you make a claim that fails and still say it convinces you
>>73352554
But can that truth be falsified?
>>73352305
>you revere a hypothesis as though it were a religious text
Oh, no. The big bang is a fact at this point. It happened, we're sure of that. What happened before it? Where did it come from? What caused it, if anything? Was it always there? What set the laws of physics? Who knows? We may never know. But that doesn't make what we do know meaningless.
Guys this was fun as fuck, but papa has gotta go to sleep. BB
>>73352710
Atheism is literally absence of religion, m8
>>73352604
>Because the prophecies in the Bible are mostly based on interpretations.
I agree, but most of those "interpretations" are obviously egregious bullshit.
>insert insult here
>>73352710
Maybe your bait will be better when you are sober and have some sleep under your belt.
But as of right now, it's 1/10, Papadopoulos. Try harder.
>>73352554
>Says worldviews have nothing to do with truth
>proceeds to define truth within his worldview
Top jej islandnigger.
>>73352471
>atheists, being so god damned stupid brag about their big bang beliefs
The Big Bang hypothesis was originated by a Catholic priest.
>which by their own system they cannot personally receive any credit for whatsoever
I don't understand. Why would anyone, Christian or otherwise, want to "receive credit" for the creation of the universe?
>>73351932
>falling for the myth that modern day Macedonia is actually Macedonian and not Greek
It's okay anon.
>we have no proof that any of this was written before Alexander the Great was alive in any case
the language of the text matches that era, and the hypothesis that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC(which was chosen as the composition date by secular sources because of other prophecies in daniel having taken place in that time period) is bunk because it was already included in the Septuagint 100 years prior.
>Why talk about "goats" when you can just say, "a guy named Alexander is going to conquer half the known world really soon
well if I had given further context you would know that the text says that the prophecy comes to Daniel in a dream.
>>73352709
Exactly, because it works. How would you prove something if not with logic? Don't be an idiot.
>>73352837
Zealotry is tied with religion though, and those militants atheists have an awful lot in common with religious zealots.
How old were you when you came back to Jesus 22 here
>>73352815
>the Big Bang is a fact, that's why no one has dared not to call it Big Bang THEORY
Kek, I might not find it this funny when I'm sober
>>73352766
>we may never know it changed
Then thus wouldn't change the assumption, would it? Because that would be the way it's always been as far as we know. It's always as far as WE know. We are the ones doing it. And again, if this assumption wasn't made, all assumptions ever would be meaningless,since there would be no way to predict anything.
>>73352814
Well, no. If you found a black duck, all ducks wouldn't be white. You can't falsify a negative claim.
>>73353018
Saying that you prove your logic with logic is circullar reasoning, is there any way in your world view, that you can ultimately no anything for certain?
>>73352381
>Why not?
What evidence do you have that everyone else on Earth will not decide they all want to eat your left testicle when you go to get the newspaper? At core its all just opinion man. Maybe there's something between the subjective and objective, or a greater thread that weaves it all together, but it all comes down to how we view the world and the axioms we choose to base it all on.
Now's probably a good time to share this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXlBCZ_5OYw
>>73352245
>Also, why does it have to be a diety? Could it not be the aether? An alien race?
The universe can't be self-created by something within the universe. Now the ancient ayylmao people could be right and every idea of religion comes from some alieums trying to steal our gold or whatever.
>Beings on a higher dimensional wavelength or some shit?
but anon, that would be considered by most to be a deity
>>73352672
>since A FUCKING TON of evidence is presented
maybe you ought to watch the many hours long debates and hear from the skeptics who of course win the debates every time
"science" about the very distant past and currently not observed great expanses of time tread on very thin dust, easily blown aside, not to mention the many lies accompanying "modern science" gatekeepers
A "fuck ton" is easy propaganda
I'd accept "it may be"
or "it sure looks like it"
even it could be
evidence however is paper thin and recently failing miserably, as science is now money and political gambits above all else
>>73353172
>theory meme
Oh boy I don't even need to be drunk to find this one funny.
Gravity is a theory, too. Let's see you walk off the top of a skyscraper because "lol it's only a theory guise xDDDDD!!1"
>>73352963
I just demonstrated how my worldview had no effect on the truth. Learn to read at least.
>>73353172
I don't understand what theory means from a scientific perspective
I wasn't aware I was talking to an idiot. Sorry, I'll try to use smaller words.
>>73353010
>>falling for the myth that modern day Macedonia is actually Macedonian and not Greek
>It's okay anon.
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I'm well aware that the ancient Macedonians spoke Greek, or at least a barbarous form of it; still, the idea that Alexander was the "king of Graecia" is a real stretch. He was a Greek-speaking conqueror who overran most of the known civilized world, not just Greece.
>well if I had given further context you would know that the text says that the prophecy comes to Daniel in a dream.
Which is why it's so vague and non-specific? Presumably if God was the one to give Daniel the dream (especially knowing that it would end up in Scripture and be consulted as authoritative for the next 2000 years or more), He could have been much more specific about the details.
>>73353312
1/10 gravity is a proven law of physics
>>73353174
Can you be wrong about your view of truth though, it seems very subjective?
>>73352629
We can know things by verifying them. Do you have a better method for discerning truth?
>>73353365
>explain a Greek word to a Greek
Nigger are you high?
>>73353312
gravity is not a theory, it is fact, it's exact causal explanation is unclear, unlike the big bang, which is PURE FANTASY THEORY
>>73353379
Hahahahahahahahhaa how can gravity be a law if you can't expllain how it works you fucking atheist.
Clearly God was involved in the creation of Gravity.
>>73353365
>I just demonstrated how my worldview had no effect on the truth.
You didn't demonstrate shit. You simply proclaimed that truth existed independently of worldview and then gave a partial definition of truth.
>>73353449
that is very subjective, tell me can you be wrong about your senses or can be deceived about the way you evaluate truth?
>>73348689
True, you can't write it off entirely, but let's be real:
Are you inclined to change your entire way of life and live according to a set of rules defined according to the faith that this thing exists without any presented evidence? Or, in the absence of any reason to believe in it, are you going to go about your every day life as if it doesn't exist, and modify your behaviour if and only if, it is proven to?
>>73353502
Holy shit here's your (you) can you stop replying to me now?
>>73353281
>the universe can't be created by something within the universe
Because? How do you know time worked in a cause>effect direction for the entire time? Remember that time as we know it came with the big bang. Before that we know fuck all.
>beings on a higher dimensional wavelength could be considered a deity
What about lower? What about the same wavelength, but different frequency? Any one of them could be considered deities. They could all be, or none of them could be. This is where literal infinite possibility throws everything to shit.
>>73353502
The fact that objects fall to the ground is a fact. The theory of gravity explains why. Please answer me a simple question. How do you explain every galaxy in the universe expanding away from one another?
>>73353502
>the big bang, which is PURE FANTASY THEORY
What, unlike the theory that the reason why volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, cancers, deadly viruses etc. exist is because several thousand years ago a talking snake made one of our ancestors eat a cursed fruit?
>>73353502
U wot? The big bang is a fact, and, like gravity, it's exact causal explanation is unclear
>>73353639
holy shit drink another beer you crybaby faggot
>>73353628
Objective data is not subjective. We eliminate variables because our senses can be deceived. We want to get rid of as much confirmation bias as possible.
>>73353366
>vague
>non-specific
I disagree, saying that a king from Greece with a god complex who gets his army/strength not from his own merits, conquers specific nations, dies but not from waging war, and has his empire split into 4 kingdoms sounds pretty specific to me.
and it's not like there aren't other prophecies in Daniel, or the Bible as a whole.
>>73353773
Eh at least you were trying before.
Now you're just blatant about your bait. It needs to be more refined senpai. Come on, try again. I truly believe you can do better.
>>73353755
big bang is not a fact, it's your stupid fantasy, and much evidence goes against it, you're just too fucking retarded to have encountered anything but your PC shill shit.
>>73353553
You stupid fedora, you aren't speaking with a televangelist, the natural functions and mechanics do not disprove God.
>>73353408
Of course I can be wrong. We could all be wrong. But it's about reasonable amounts of doubt here. Sure, gravity could be invisible dragons with a fuckton of arms having some shits and giggles with us, but is that really as likely as masses attracting one another?
>>73353474
>Greeks fucking up their own language
I might be laughing like I'm high.
>>73353850
But you could be wrong about this?
>>73353877
Yeah like what? I'd like for your explanation on expansion and next you could explain why we see a cosmic microwave background image of fourteen billion years ago.
>>73353502
please stop
we probably know more about the big bang than gravity
the big bang doesn't prove god and in fact it was proposed by a Catholic priest. It was opposed initially by scientists because they thought it was thinly veiled Creationism and as evidence of god existing.
>>73353893
Oh right shit I forgot how the God card is only used when convenient for your narrative.
Pay debts you fucking olive nigger.
>>73353720
that is absolutely untrue, redshift
don't forget your very same heroes now describe 90% "dark matter" to fudge up their failed pulling together numbers...
ROFLMAO - YOU FUCKING MORON
>>73353278
i dont have evidence, because i cant see the future
but i can make accurate assumptions that theyre not gonna based on other peoples experience
>>73353925
So in your worldview, you admit that it is possible not to know anything?
>>73347253
it wasnt any evidence and it never would its what written in bible. its faith faith in invisible it what we believe for and its what written in bible. it never was an evidence and never would.
>>73353925
>Nigs in charge of Greek language
We wuz Aristotle and shiiiet
>>73347253
9 when i put on my fedora. I grew out of it
>>73347253
It's unlikely that a deity exists, however it's not completely 100% certain. What we do know however is that all of the gods we worship in our major religions are false or at least their scriptures extremely inaccurate.
>>73353855
Scholars contend that the later parts of Daniel were written after the death of Alexander the Great, however (but after the Greeks had started seriously troubling the Israelites). What's your opinion on that?
>>73353575
>gave a partial definition of truth
Truth is the observations we make based on the information we gain from interaction with the environment, in this case the universe as we know it..... Beyond reasonable doubt? In our axioms? Not sure what you're looking for here.
>>73352381
The vast majority of things people believe in are based on personal faith and not true personal evidence.
Everything you believe but haven't seen/proven yourself is just pure faith. Have you ever really proven that bacteria exist? Hold on, don't tell me you saw some through a microscope, unless you built it yourself, someone could have tampered it to trick you, etc,etc, it applies for everything, even your basic human senses.
It's stupid highschool level philosophy but it's still true.
>>73347253
Was never taught there was one, so never. I've also never experienced anything that would lead me to believe there is a deity. So there isn't.
>>73353231
How is it a fallacy? We know that logic works and it's also demonstrable. You need to use logic in the first place to prove something. You're just fucking with me.
>>73353877
>big bang is not a fact, it's your stupid fantasy
Whereas the talking snake and his cursed fruit bringing death and evil to the universe are what? Settled science?
>>73353931
We could be wrong that gravity doesn't exist or that the earth wasn't round but it would take new amounts of information to do so. In which case you'd take the answer with more data.
>>73353982
>one can either be a bible thumper claiming that God is responsible even for one's sneezing or a complete fedora claiming if there is gravity there's no God
Do you realize your own zealotry? Fucking religious fanatics
>>73354076
Romans 1:18-22
Psalms 14:1-5
tell me what you think about what it says
>>73353733
I find several thousand an easier bang than billions and billions "peering into the past" - as should you -YOU FUCKING MORON
>>73347311
nigga you gay
>>73354010
>but i can make accurate assumptions
And there it is, the point I was getting at.
>>73353877
Pretty good trolling, anon. You had me going for a second. You gave it away by randomly bringing politically correct and shill up for no reason
>>73354020
Did... Did you even read? Yes, if you get to the tiniest percentage that there is some bullshit excuse for literally everything, sure. You can't absolutely be sure of everything, everywhere, all the time. But where is the point where you just say screw it and say something is right because literally everything points to it being right?
ITT: Direct evidence /pol/ has been invaded by reddit- reddit fedora tippers believing atheism and being right wing can be mutually inclusive
>>73354139
you assume logic works. Correct me if im wrong.
No i am trying to understand your world view as a professed atheist.
>>73353697
>Remember that time as we know it came with the big bang. Before that we know fuck all.
>What about lower?
You could argue that we can't physically comprehend higher dimensions, how could a 1 or 2 dimensional being comprehend 3. Or we could just say that some 2-D entity is making a simulation of 3-D space. Sure, that's possible.
I went with your higher dimensional idea because the Abrahamic religions treat God like a higher dimensional being that persists throughout all of time as if it were a single instance.
>>73354227
How do you generate a star in the thousands of years?
>>73354106
>Truth is the observations we make based on the information we gain from interaction with the environment
There you go, defining things again.
>Not sure what you're looking for here.
I'll give you a hint: you're working within a certain framework based on certain assumptions. You may not know it, but you are.
>>73348663
This
>>73354123
>postmodernist critical theory
>>73347253
Organized religion has made you forsake God. You dont need to believe in a specific organized religion to be graced by God. Do not mock Him, who has nothing to do with your experiences with people who claim to represent Him. Disparage me all you want, but there is no need to say such things based on negative experiences with /people/.
>>73354024
>I don't have an argument but you're a nigger XDDD
Stay mad
>>73354343
>reddit fedora tippers
Hello, newfag. Next time you'll know that atheism on this site dates back to 2004 and predates the fedora meme
>>73354343
Mother fucker pol, 4chan and the internet are majority non-believers. Whether or not a deity exists shouldn't affect your political alignment.
>>73354192
Your right, in your world view, you cant really know anything to be true.
>>73353975
> WE PROBABLY
you're an unversed god damned moron
I am a science EXPERT.
We know NOTHING about "the big bang" YOU FUCKING MOOKING MUCKBRAIN FAGGOT
GOD DAMN, TRY SCIENCE !
I can't believe you people are so god damned stupid.
>>73354357
So now logic is an assumption? Do you think it doesn't work when the rules of logic are correctly applied?
Is 1+1=2 an assumption too?
>>73354205
Sick false equivalency idiot.
Because "God doesn't exist" is somehow the equivalent of your retarded ass claiming God exists because some completely random shit that you can't otherwise explain happened.
Kys you unbearably stupid degenerate Mediterranean nigger.
>>73347336
Your waifu does not exist and yet you fap to her every night
The evidence is all around you senpai
>>73353697
whoops, posted to soon.
>Remember that time as we know it came with the big bang. Before that we know fuck all.
>before
you can't say "before the big bang" because there is no such thing as "before time."
>>73354227
>I find several thousand an easier bang than billions and billions "peering into the past" - as should you -YOU FUCKING MORON
The only "moron" is the one who believes that a fucking talking snake was ultimately responsible for things like parasitic wasps, the poisonous machineel tree, and the ebola virus. Incidentally, we know that the universe is far, far older than a few thousand years from having proven the speed of light and from observing the receding motion of stars in our expanding universe.
>>73354435
Nice hypothesis you got there. Got any evidence for a deity?
>>73354461
Lookup on a fucking lexicon what theory actually means, niggy
>>73354335
I am saying, as a professed atheist, your world view cant account for any truth.
>>73354519
How can you comprehend that?
>>73354608
I wrote senpai but it changed it to senpai
Pic related is God's Son
>>73354507
We know many things to be true. Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything. I'll ask again - do you have a method of discerning truth or not?
>>73354626
Please stop replying to that ID seriously. Jesus, see >>73354515
>>73354519
Welcome to arguing with postmodernist retards.
Just stop before you commit suicide bro. It's not worth it.
>>73354608
I reject your first premise. Got anything else?
>>73354382
>How do you generate a star in the thousands of years?
Err, Satan faked the redshift of stars that appear to have been created millions of years ago because he was given permission by God to deceive sinners, or something.
