The car industry as we know it will crash within 5 years and almost all new cars sold will be electric.
The Saudis will go bankrupt, Muslims wont be able to build Mosques and there will be no more terrorism.
>Unless.....
>>72967922
Even with subsidies they are not competitive. Stop wasting taxpayer money and get back to R&D
>>72968312
>some 30 thousand € for an electric car with over 300 km range, autopilot hardware and sportslike driving capabilities.
>not competitive
have you been living under a rock? Tesla 3 has been the largest launch of any in history. There are some 400'000 preorders for it.
And, btw, the price, 30k€ or 35k$, is without subsidies.
>>72968980
How much percent of new car sales are Teslas?
The fact that they neeed subsidies is proof they are not competitive. Why would they need subsidies if they are.
>>72968312
And the supercharger fills your car to some 300 km range in 30 minutes. So you can drive for 300 km and then take a half an hour brake while recharging, and then drive again.
IMHO, the reason preorders stopped is that people realize they will not be getting the Tesla 3 for a very long time since the company will be simply overwhelmed with demand.
just look at the map of Tesla charging stations in US or Europe. Tesla is going balls deep into this.
>>72967922
>electricity will replace gas meme
electricity doesn't have the same energy density as gasoline has and probably never will unless you find a replacement for lithium batteries
we still use oil for other things though. the electricity you use to power these cars have to come from somewhere.
>>72969339
>How much percent of new car sales are Teslas?
That doesn't really mean anything. They are JUST setting up their first factory after only producing high price cars.
>The fact that they neeed subsidies is proof they are not competitive. Why would they need subsidies if they are.
But. They. Don't. They don't need subsidies. They have a tremendous demand without promising subsidies. They advertise the price without subsidies. They have to, because the demand is so high that they will burn through any subsidies.
Look, you don't find many cars with full equipment plus an autopilot for 30 k€. But to find an electric one, with 300 km range and supercharger at that is extreme IMHO. I would order it 'cept I would have to wait for like 4 years to get one. This is IMO the reason why preorders have stopped rising.
>>72969430
>electricity doesn't have the same energy density as gasoline has and probably never will unless you find a replacement for lithium batteries
You mean batteries, yeah, they are a drawback, but numbers don't lie. 300 km is a lot of range no matter what you say about batteries. BTW, the theoretical limit for the energy density of batteries is some 100 times larger than that of gasoline.
>we still use oil for other things though. the electricity you use to power these cars have to come from somewhere.
Ironically though, electricity is needed for refining oil. The electricity needed for refining the oil of a gasoline car would almost suffice to drive an electric car.
http://longtailpipe.com/ebooks/green-transportation-guide-buying-owning-charging-plug-in-vehicles-of-all-kinds/gasoline-electricity-and-the-energy-to-move-transportation-systems/the-6-kwh-electricity-to-refine-gasoline-would-drive-an-electric-car-the-same-distance-as-a-gasser/
Indeed, the only thing gasoline has right now is energy density, but batteries are getting better and better and oil remains the same.
>>72970058
>300 km is a lot of range no matter what you say about batteries.
m8 my dinky little civic has a range of 300+ miles, thats well over 450km
>the theoretical limit of energy density for batteries is 100 times larger
Theories don't mean fuck all until you actually make a battery that has it and until then it still doesn't mean shit
>>72970324
my dick has a range up your mum
XDXXXDDD
sorry about that, nevermind.
Yeah, my renault has a range of some 350 miles, but I don't need that high of a range. I would need something like 200 mies and that's it. And I think most people have it the same.
>>72969367
>fills your car to some 300 km range in 30 minutes.
>>72970716
It's probably less than 300 km btw. The idea is that you drive for a few hours, then take a break (lunch coffee, tea), then drive again....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3d-72wtkjg
>>72967922
Takes me less than 4 minutes to fill my car and get a 580km range. And brand new cost 1/4th of a Tesla
I mean electric cars are cool I'd love to own a Tesla, but doesn't make any sense at the moment. Still a niche car for awhile.
>>72971471
but, it's a Tesla. A Tesla.
>>72971124
30 minutes it's a huge amount of time.
>>72971664
Oh I admire the car quite a bit. But that extra 40 grand in my pocket can buy a lot of gas..
>>72971891
did't you hear what faggot OP said. Tasla is going to kill the gas industry. then you'll have no choice but to become one of us.
one of us.
one of us.
>>72967922
>The Saudis will go bankrupt, Muslims wont be able to build Mosques and there will be no more terrorism.
as much as I like the sound of this, what makes you think this will end terrorism?
>>72967922
>wants to replace 300+m gas cars with electric cars
>zero plans to improve electricity generation
>>72968980
The price point of the new Tesla does look attractive.
But the build quality of the current models is absolute garbage.
And I've seen no indication that the new one will be any better.
Compared to other shit quality brands, it's still quite expensive.
>>72971747
If you have a sandwich or a cup of coffee it's actually quite quick. You may not realize this, but sometimes the petrol stations on highways are a little packed and it would take some 20 minutes just to fill up and wait in lines of the gas pump and the lines of the cashier.
I have had a car for a decade now and can't remember any trips that would be longer than 300 km where I didn't want to stop and really take a break from driving.
>>72969408
The change is inevitable anon, there oil won't be economically viable source of power in the next 30 years.
Countries researching and exploring renewable fuels will have a massive headstart in the oil-less power race.
As for my country, we'll most likely sink, people here aren't exactly the innovators
>fast forward 5 years
>car can only go 150 km due to battery discharge
not even once
>>72969408
>>72972819
Gentlemen.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1065040_thorium-powered-cars-a-million-miles-without-refuelling
>>72972175
Yes because somehow ships, and planes will all run on electricity now...
>>72972807
>it would take some 20 minutes just to fill up and wait in lines of the gas pump
And how long do you think the wait will be for a spot at a charging station?
I'm sure it will be fine on normal days.
But you can pretty much forget about doing the Route de Soleil the first days of the summer holidays.
>>72972807
>You may not realize this, but sometimes the petrol stations on highways are a little packed and it would take some 20 minutes just to fill up and wait in lines of the gas pump and the lines of the cashier.
Now imagine the same situation were to recharge you need 30 minutes and not 3 minutes, 5 if NGV.
>>72967922
This guy is right. In the bay area every 5th car is a Tesla.
>>72973102
https://youtu.be/568iDYn8pjc
>>72972320
I personally don't have plans. But there's this fact:
http://longtailpipe.com/ebooks/green-transportation-guide-buying-owning-charging-plug-in-vehicles-of-all-kinds/gasoline-electricity-and-the-energy-to-move-transportation-systems/the-6-kwh-electricity-to-refine-gasoline-would-drive-an-electric-car-the-same-distance-as-a-gasser/
So if you simply shut down the oil industry you're almost left with enough electricity for it. Musk has a boner about building a fuckton of solar as well though. I wont comment on that.
>>72972314
>as much as I like the sound of this, what makes you think this will end terrorism?
The reason is that if you can't just drill for oil you have to develop a working economy to become rich. The Saudis had become rich without develpping a working economy and their kingdom is a sick leadership with too much power. That's why they do fucked up things. The funding for ISIS was almost exclusively from oil. All the other islamic terrorist organizations are funded from oil money. The riches will slowly fade away from the Arab world and they will either have to civilize or they will be so completely backwards they wont even be able to buy bullets for their AK.
>>72973227
>And how long do you think the wait will be for a spot at a charging station?
virtually no line. The reason is that they are cheap to build and will IMO always be plentiful. That one company, Tesla, has already built a fuckton of charging stations. If those were gasoline charging stations Tesla would have already gone bust from that alone.
>>72973398
I didn't realise the thunderboot had a vid on it
>>72973102
Thorium reactors require complex chemical processing to remove waste products from the fuel mixture.
If they ever did make a thorium car, it would need refueling (polluted fuel out, clean fuel in).
What about biomass for home heating, as well? Wood pellets, peat, hemp, etc.
Whatever happened to bio-fuels? It seems like all the money went to ethanol to keep podunk corn farmers in Iowa happy instead of going on all in hemp biodiesel.
>>72967922
They invest in these companies
Dubai just broke the record for lowest solar energy costs, $2.99 a watt or something
>>72973723
>they are cheap to build
A fast charger costs 40.000 euro's.
That's a lot of money if they're only going to be used on peak days.
>>72973789
To avoid falling for pseudoscience, just use the following rule:
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
>>72967922
>mfw I make shock absorbers for a living
>Electric cars will still need shocks and struts
Feels good man
>>72973950
0.299 $ a watt.
Investing is not as profitable as the SJW western media says. Eventually, every company goes bust. You have to be an entrepreneur. You have to have something to contribute. If the Saudis try and take as much profit from a solar company as they did from oil, that company would go bust.
>>72969744
We aren't saying they won't be competitive in the future. Just that they aren't competitive now
>>72968980
>30000 €
dream on janez, it will be about 40k€
![World%20oil%20demand%20by%20sector%202012[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/LpXc22I.png "World%20oil%20demand%20by%20sector%202012[1].png")
>>72967922
it'll happen but not so fast as one may think even if all the cars get replaced by electric ones in 5 years by a poof of a magic wand. There's industry, plastic production and shit, but even in the transport, which uses 2/3 of oil, there are heavy trucks, ships, planes even oil powered trains here and there and probably some other weird shit, will they all get replaced by electric ones too? Not very fast that's for sure.
>>72970058
>oil remains the same.
Gasoline fuel economy is increasing faster than battery range.
>>72974142
>A fast charger costs 40.000 euro's.
IDK about that:
http://insideevs.com/bmw-launches-new-low-cost-dc-fast-chargers-6458/
>2 years ago
>BMW Launches New Low Cost DC Fast Chargers From $6,458
>Today from Plug-In 2014 in San Jose, BMW announced a new DC fast charging unit that can top up an all-electric i3 to 80% in about 30 minutes.
Electric cars will not go anywhere until we have better batteries.
>>72974427
I just noticed Al Jazeera America wasn't on my TV menu. Then I remembered Qatar was closing it on April 30th because they lost so money from oil.
Surprisingly Dubai is spending $1 billion on an amusement park.
>>72969367
>half an hour brake
I can fill my tank with gas in 2 minutes, you hippies can stare at the flowers all day, I've got shit to do
>>72974569
the energy density of oil remains the same
>>72967922
Yes because a Bunch of Fucked up fanatical countries that only have value in their oil are totally going to become peaceful when they have NO money left.
>>72974763
This. We Americans work for a living. We can't just dilly dally like some filthy Euro.
>>72974763
You yankees can go have shit to do. I've got to stare at the flowers all day.
>>72967922
where do you think that energy comes from?
>>72971747
I live in Charlotte NC and they are building Tesla charging stations around town. all of them are located near Shopping centers or Grocery stores.
the company has thought out the 30 minute charging time.
>>72967922
>all new cars are electric
>kill all the coal fired power plants, refused to go nuclear and replaced them with shit like wind
>?
>>72975081
Fucking a, I live near Charlotte, NC*
Also downtown has recently been putting in chargers for other electric cars. so its starting to catch on. Also each tesla spot has enough room for 20 cars (10 on each side)
>>72974938
If it's for the daily commute your office car park should have regular chargers, so you can charge as you work.
....unless you work at some shit company?
>>72968980
300km range before a 12 hour recharge is shit though senpai. How would anyone ever take a road trip?
I admit they are kind of cool cars. I got to drive a handful of them when I worked for a tire shop. But unless they can improve that range I'll keep my internal combustion engine.
>>72975081
>>72975269
In SoCal I've seen one charging station near a Winco, Toys R Us, and Home Depot. Saw another one near an outlet center with 100+ stores.
>>72975197
Na, In a couple more years people will start to see the environmental impact that Wind has on the earth. In parts of Mongolia their are more droughts then usually and its been tied to the large number of Wind plants china has been building in the area and they are pulling enough power from the wind that its effecting how the clouds form in said areas of Mongolia.
>>72973102
Fallout Universe when?
>>72975329
I work at a major university. There isn't a single electric car charger thing like that.
Also I was more referring to vacations and business trips. America is vast, we can't just take a short jog and end up three countries down.
>>72967922
You do know that oil isn't only used in car engines, right?
>>72975269
>Also each tesla spot has enough room for 20 cars (10 on each side)
Which, by car served, is equivalent roughly a 2 pump station?
>>72967922
its physically impossible,
there are not enough rare metals on earth to replace all gas cars,
furthermore there is not enough production of electricity, and the electricity infrastructure cant handle the loads.
I could see hydrogen becoming a thing, since you can make fuel cells out of common materials, but you would still need to burn coal and oil to make the electricity needed to produce hydrogen.
nuclear + hydrogen on the other hand, is the solution
I just bought a 2008 Prius for $5000, it gets 55MPG when I do my part, or 50MPG when I drive like an idiot. You can't beat that cost/performance ratio.
I agree that plug in vehicles are the future. But all electric? We are 10+ years away. If the Tesla had a small gasoline engine as a backup for when the batteries run low, it would be amazing.
>>72972819
>The change is inevitable anon, there oil won't be economically viable source of power in the next 30 years
People literally said this 30 years ago.
>>72974861
>the energy density of oil remains the same
So does the energy density of the sun. Yet I applaud improvements to solar panels. Why can't you appreciate the increases in gasoline fuel economy?
>The Saudis will go bankrupt,
>there will be no more terrorism.
Are you fucking RETARDED? The Saudis going backrupt is a NIGHTMARE scenario in counter-terrorism. If the Saudi royal family loses power, (WHICH IS ALREADY STARTING TO HAPPEN), the power vacuum will be filled with Islamic extremism, and most likely, ISIS itself.
An ISIS controlled Arabia would legitimize their movement and usher in a new age of Islamic extremism, terror and war like you have never seen before.
And the scariest thing is, you're right. This is already happening. The Saudi family just sold 5% of the Saudi oil stock in a desperate attempt to generate revenue for a nation that's swiftly going bankrupt. It's going to collapse and it's going to be worse than you could imagine.
>>72967922
Electric car will crash energy production with no survivors.
>can'r rise price of electricity
>can't build new plants
>perpetual energy deficit
Sell energy stocks.
>>72975885
We have better technology now, hence better estimates
Desu nobody can deny earth is running out of oil
Elon is a champ.
>>72967922
What will be needed is vastly better batteries or some kind of new power source - it/when that happens... it will happen. Old fossile fuel cars will be obsolete like steam and sail back in the day.
>>72975944
But ISIS will lose their primary source of income: donations from rich Saudi's.
>>72973575
Wow.
I never thought I'd say this but let's get started on alternative energies.
>>72967922
Yes, but not that soon.
>>72967922
>>72969430
Here's an energy plan, follow me here:
The grid can handle a fuck ton more electric cars as it is. Navigant found it could support millions more. But we can't be idle. We need to upgrade local distribution transformers, for example.
While this is going on, we need more nuclear plants. Obama got this right. GAIN + DoE loan guarantees. Again, not the end all but it's a start and something we can build off.
Oddly enough, the South is the most progressive. The next 5 nuclear plants to go online are all in the South (SC, GA, TN).
There. No more Middle East.
>>72976073
If the Saudis lose power, ISIS won't need the donations. They will control the Saudi oilfields themselves.
Seriously, if shit goes down in Saudi Arabia (and it's already started), who do you think is going to replace the Saudis?
>>72976036
Thats like saying that we are running out of rocks to build things with.
Sure, the super easy drill n pump oil is getting harder to find, but we have only tapped into a tiny percentage of the total oil on earth. Huge amounts of oil are in Canada's oil sands. The problem? It is harder to extract. Gas needs to be $4 per gallon to break even. But there is a shit ton of oil there. Huge amounts.
Most people wont have electric even if they were free
>>72975718
Can you rephrase the question? If you're asking if its 2 cars per station then yes it is. If your comparing the size of 20 car stations its about a 4th of the size of a regular gas station.
here's what they look like in the Charlotte area
Mybad I thought that each station has 2 chargers but its only 1, okay they can only have 1 car per station. thought it was 2 because the guy was parked on the other side charging as well.
>>72974460
but thats wrong you fucking retard
>>72968312
>Even with subsidies they are not competitive
germanys "white" engineers are mad as fuck that someone beat them to it.
>>72971747
Going on long drives is not all that common compared to regular driving
And taking regular 30 min brakes would probably drastically reduce car accidents
>>72972819
Hardly
MAYBE in 30 years we'll have electric batteries that can compare to the power density of oil/natural gas.
>>72974558
99% of trains in the US use diesel FWIW.
t. freight conductor
>>72969430
by teslas theory there is eletrcicity all aroundyou, we can power almost everything through air its self, if we can stop being in the 1800's we can create a new industry. But nope fuck you saudiarabia
>>72967922
>The Saudis will go bankrupt, Muslims wont be able to build Mosques and there will be no more terrorism.
sounds great, those cities they built in their shitty desert using our money and our architects and our engineers trigger me but desu they're developed enough at this point that they can just create a new economy, that's already what they're doing...
>>72967922
Did you watch this too, OP?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxryv2XrnqM
I'm going to laugh if average people go to solar/wind voluntarily, and the communists don't get total control of the economy via carbon regulation.
>>72967922
There will always be a market for guys like me who just a want a mean sounding V8. I love my 2015 Challenger I just bought and have no interest in a Tesla.
>>72969339
Most of the states with automotive factories have government-backed buy quotas, and they receive a variety of other subsidies as well. By your "logic", this means that gas powered automobiles are not competitive.
Good fucking job, you ignorant sperg.
Most oil is used in heavier machinery like tractors, trucks, aircraft and ships and those are in higher demand than ever before.
>>72977816
>buying a junky challenger that costs more then a brand new tesla
dude sell it and save up about 9 grand, the new tesla is 35g's
>>72967922
not necessarily, consider the following:
1. oil isn't just fuel, plastics require oil and plastics use has never been in decline (injection molding is king)
2. with current tech battery degradation is real, you lose a few % capacity each year, that compounds over the years and battery replacement is costly (it's the most expensive component of any EV)
3. not many people can afford a 30.000+ new car and used EV market will be hindered by my argument #2
>>72977360
>MAYBE in 30 years we'll have electric batteries that can compare to the power density of oil/natural gas.
I don't think any element exists that would allow that, even theoretically.
>>72967922
Muslims will just chimp out really hard. Can't wait to see those Middle-Eastern fuckers without their oil money.
>>72977816
you can simulate that with speakers. carmakers have been doing it for years.
>>72978172
Most ofTesla's cars look like shit boxs. Why on Earth would he ever give up a HEMI V8?
>>72978337
there have been some promising breakthroughs in labs but question is how long until these enter mass production
I believe we'll eventually switch to hydrogen, there's already a Toyota Mirai fuel cell car coming out soon, it'll cost 50k and allow the user virtually limitless travel as long as he finds hydrogen to refill but that'll go away once hydrogen distribution infrastructure spreads
renewable energy sources could be used for production of hydrogen using up excess power or dedicated plants (Germany already experiences renewable energy surplus during peak production times of the day)
>>72978528
It stills sounds shitty without the V8
>>72977662
All personal cars in the US consume less fuel per year than the annual manufacture, farming and refrigeration of cheeseburgers alone consumes.
>>72969367
And by doing that often you cut the life expectancy of the battery by half
Oh btw a new battery costs at least 10000$ and under optimum conditions it will not last more than 6-7 years
>>72970716
>Zero emission
>power still comes from coal/oil refineries burning fossil fuels to create power, and nuclear powerplants.
>>72976848
Sorry, i've wrote a terrible phrase which doesn't even make much sense grammatically.
Retry: A 20 chargers station is, by the amount of car it can serve in time, equivalent to a 2 gas pump (or a single double pump) station, more or less.
The pro is you can them (almost) everywhere and they taking advantage of this by placing them in car parks near place when you will surely stay for more than the recharge time.
Problem is what happen when you need to use something like a motorway or place when you have the refuel in the less amount of time possible, even more if you have slightly less than 300km of range.
At the moment it's seems Tesla cars are limited in the citycars niche, and they are quite costly citycars.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3876006-tesla-bubble-bursts
>>72967922
These coal fired cars are good for the mining industry.
