Hitchens (RIP) > Dennett >>> Dawkins >>>>>> Jewris
Agree?
>>72426691
in what? fedora tipping? ruination of western civilization?
>>72426691
Hitchens was kind of a dick about it all.
But an educated intellectual dick that spoke in long incoherent sentences with fancy words in it.
I wanna be a dick like that.
>>72426829
>But an educated intellectual dick
The guy had a BA. 30% of the US population is as educated.
>>72427023
This might be the most retarded thing I've read on 4chan this week
>>72426829
He pulled no punches
>>72426691
Dennett >>>>> Dawkins >>>> Hitchens
>>72426691
Peter Hitchens > Christopher Hitchens
Tbh I prefer Dawkins to hitch
Dawkins also invented memes
>>72427243
Please go away Peter.
Harris has the best arguments of them. Hitchens has the best delivery. Dawkins has the most scientific understanding and information. Dennet just rambles on and on like a crazy person while saying nothing.
>>72427220
Oh, I forgot Harris.
1. Dennett (Philosopher)
2. Dawkins (Good as a biologist but sucked as a critic of religion with that tired "Religion began as a surrogate for science" meme, there's more to it. power, politics, etc.)
3. Harris (interesting
4. Hitchens (the ultimate Fedora and neo-con, as "intellectual" as Milo)
>>72427286
I a... He is better though.
>>72426691
>>72427399
>not an argument.
Honest question, who do people think Hitch would side with out of Trump and Hillary? Considering he wrote an entire book on the corruption of the Clintons I'm not sure it's an easy question to answer.
>>72427525
Bernie for the free cancer treatment
>>72426691
In terms of brains, Dennett > Dawkins > Harris > Hitchens
In terms of effectiveness as anti-theists, Hitchens > Dawkins > Harris > Dennet
In terms of being all-round great goys, Harris > Hitchens > Dawkins > Dennet
In terms of pwning idiots in debates, Hitchens > Dennet > Harris = Dawkins
>>72426829
>long incoherent sentences with fancy words in it.
On the contrary, he spoke with a singular eloquence and was always very clear with what he meant, unlike most public speakers. You just failed to understand him because you're a fjord-nigger.
>>72427525
I'm afraid he would be pretty much like all his disciples these days: talking about SJW and "third wave" feminism ... but then endorsing Sanders anyway.
Also, Hitchens was a Neo-Con who strongly supported the war against Iraq, so he'd probably rather side with Hillary, with NATO, against the evil Christians in Russia etc.
>>72427336
>muh intellectualism
We've had 50 years of 'intellectualism' and it's led to multiculti shitholes, muslim rape gangs and faggots congregating in cities to celebrate their degeneracy
We need firebrands and Hitchens was that
richard dawkins literally invented memes
hitchens was the most aggressive fedora tipper
dennett was the smartest and most neutral
last guy doesnt even deserve a mention, he just jumped on the band wagon at the right time
>>72426691
Why do you call Harris a Jew and not Hitchens?
>Writes "Consciousness Explained"
>Solely discusses the brain, never discusses consciousness, the history of the philosophy of consciousness, or the nature of consciousness
>muhhh the brain tho
---Daniel Dennett
>>72426691
they're all scum
>>72427918
>>72427852
Cuz counciousness is not some next level shit. It is just actvity on the brain. Neurons, chemicals and electricity.
Pretty much the same that goes on in the brain of a lizard, except only on a bit bigger scale.
>>72427627
I can't help but feel it's wrong to call him a neocon, maybe you are right but his concern was first and foremost with religious extremism not with the maintenance of American hegemony, the fact this led his views to align with neocons is incidental in my view. Either way he was on the money in predicting a caliphate like IS and the capitulation of the left to Islam a long time ago
>>72428086
that's his argument certainly.
The term "consciousness" means something completely different than what he is talking about, however.
Consciousness cannot be explained, a priori.
There is no debate on this subject. Those who claim they can "explain" consciousness have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. Literally. If you know what consciousness meant, and that by definition, it is "unexplainable" then you wouldnt try to explain it.
Unless of course your goal was the muddle the issue and sell a science book under the auspices that its somehow explained the unexplainable.
>>72429283
Human conciousness is just a result of our evolution and high intelligence.
We ponder about this because we're the only species able to and some think that makes us special and something more than mere mammals because we're the smartest race.
But it's no more legit than saying blue whales are something more than just mammals because they are the biggest species.
>>72426829
no, he was enormously straightforward
dawkins is a dick
dawkins wanted them to call themselves fucking "brights", hitchens told him to fuck off with that arrogant nonsense
>>72429283
>There is no debate on this subject
Not with that attitude.
Consciousness is a byproduct of the brain. Very easy to test: remove the brain and see if someone is still conscious.
>>72430011
Furthermore on that:
We can remove parts of the brain and witness the diminishing conciousness of the person brain we just picked.
Meaning our conciousness is directly and physically connected to our brain.(aka, no voodoo)
>>72427627
>I'm afraid he would be pretty much like all his disciples these days: talking about SJW and "third wave" feminism
no
>>72427525
>who do people think Hitch would side with out of Trump and Hillary?
he despised the corruption of both clintons and wouldn't support hillary in a million years.
it's impossible to predict how he would feel about trump and bernie.
>>72426691
I genuinely believe that Harris is the smartest of the bunch.
Hitchens was extremely well read and educated, Dawkins is a smart guy, but everytime I listen to Harris debate someone I can see him being always two mentally steps ahead of the guy he's debating.
>>72427852
>qualia don't exist
>consciousness is an illusion
>you don't really feel pain or pleasure, you just think you do
>there are no mental events, you are only imagining them!
>>72429283
>Consciousness cannot be explained, a priori.
did you leave your professor's course halfway through or did you just skim wikipedia before posting
>>72430172
There is a very effective counter-argument to the opinion you've expressed. It evolves from the logical notion of "identity". There IS a relation between conscience and brain, but there is more to it. This guy explains it perfectly, and I deeply recomend this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x27aMcq-Kq8
BETTER BROTHER COMING TROUGH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIcvw3jzAH8&list=PLsXpkVaWDhGYka6eCDE4BN3BvuiC3kPI5&index=7
>>72426691
l
m
a
o
>>72427982
>>72430796
>1 hour 6 minutes
Shit nigga, I ain't watching all of dat
>>72430937
being on the right or the left and holding peter as superior in any manner makes you an instant retard and proves you don't know either of them well at all.
>>72431006
>hitchens
>in any way using violence to enforce and of his opinions because "he's a jerkkk"
what a dumb image
also an image that supports islamic extremism by a very short extension btw,
>>72431097
Don't be a lazy mofo. Watch the first 5 minutes, at least. You'll want to watch the rest. You can thank me in another life, bitch.
>>72431006
>>72431287
>also an image that supports islamic extremism by a very short extension btw
Oh *DO* elaborate.
>>72431301
(adenda)
And in the first 30 minutes, your argument of conscience being a physical "sub-product" already gets hammered to shit. Do it, man. For science.
>>72431148
top kek
Peter is great at debating and his crazy stances about drrugs only showcase how right he is about everything else
And he is probably the last moral man in the "soon to be Atlantis" Britain
>>72431454
It's referring to Hitchen's strong position that Islamic extremist groups need to be fought and destroyed, and saying he's full of cognitive dissonance on that front only because he... argued loudly? When was he ever violent?
anyway, it's condescending enough to come across as a little bit critical of the concept of fighting extremism itself, because it's equating simple words and arguments and exchange of ideas it doesn't like to physical violence
I mean I'd really be embarrassed to post this outside of sheer trolling retardation
the whole image is overwhelmingly haughty and stupid, and I even dislike some of the people it is critical of,
>>72426691
Left to right
>Dead drunkard, also sionist, jew and Dubya supporter
>Not a scientist, just sells philosophy books on materialism
>Father of memes, also agnostic
>Atheist but believes in reincarnation, xenoglossy and hindu stuff
>>72432030
it's like, I think everyone on /pol/ is a troll, but you're all just informed enough that you might really mean it
I mean
>dubya supporter
how stupid are you
>>72432135
Look it up you cuck, instead of blaming me for your autistic idol
>>72432009
It's cognitive dissonance to hold that people who hold violent beliefs should be killed insofar as you're not admitting yourself in those that should be killed. Since you hold a violent belief, you're being completely disingenuous.
Do you even know who Hume *is*, or understand *at all* the subject of his appearance in that little comic?
>>72426691
Agreed.
*tips fedora*
>>72432433
Check >>72432030
>>72431148
That is becasue you don't understand what he is talking about
>>72432030
>Dead drunkard, also sionist, jew and Dubya supporter
citation needed
>Atheist but believes in reincarnation, xenoglossy and hindu stuff
citation needed
>>72426691
>cucking for white death
Dawkins is the only one that's based.
>>72432560
pretty based
>>72432277
>Look it up you cuck,
he literally called him governor instead of president, and disagreed with how he carried out an enormous number of things
he supported some of his decisions, like the basic idea that we should act in the middle east and attack out enemies while defending our friends there, but calling him a dubya supporter is a complete joke
he is my idol though, you got me
>>72432385
>to hold that people who hold violent beliefs should be killed
let me stop you there
no
it's that violent extremist groups members, enemies of our liberty and dignity, enemies of our allies and violent killers should be killed,
which I hope you agree with,
and that people who hold violent belief systems should be criticized openly.
He never said to kill anyone for their private beliefs
are you ACTUALLY saying to me that it's cognitive dissonance to fight our enemies, people who kill us and join groups intending to kill us?
Don't try to say he wants people murdered for their opinions while holding equally violent opinions himself because we both know you're being a lying toad
>>72432724
He's the most tolerable one now that he opened his eyes to what the hell is going on in the world.
The rest of them are faggots.
>>72432724
Yep. This is what traditional atheists have been saying all alone. It's good to see that new atheists opening their eyes to reality. Mmm the sweet mediocrity of the Anglican Church.
>>72432525
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Harris
>Fellow religion critic Christopher Hitchens once referred to Harris as a "Jewish warrior against theocracy and bigotry of all stripes".[12]
BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens
> I'm one of those people of Jewish descent who believes that Zionism would be a mistake even if there were no Palestinians."[107]
>In January 2007, Harris received criticism from John Gorenfeld, writing for AlterNet.[61] Gorenfeld took Harris to task for defending some of the findings of paranormal investigations into areas such as reincarnation and xenoglossy. He also strongly criticized Harris for his defense of judicial torture.
>Hitchens later became a liberal hawk and supported the War on Terror
You can fuck off right back to r/atheism now
>>72432560
>Dawkins
>based
WE ARE ALL AFRICANS GOY, NOTHING WRONG WITH BREEDING WITH MBOTUMBE THE CANNIBAL WITCHDOCTOR, SEE HE IS JUST LIKE YOU ;^)
>>72431040
this is a cool meme picture of jesus where'd you get it
>>72432782
Why should they be killed? Because they hold that others should be killed.
You believe that others should be killed for holding the belief that others should be killed.
It would be a different thing if you were to say "killers should be killed", because that has nothing to do with a belief. If Hitchens had a mind-reading device, and he could tell that someone wanted to kill him or someone else and planned to, Hitchens would want that man killed. That's cognitive dissonance, in that there's absolutely nothing that doesn't allow that reasoning to be turned right back around on him - if someone *else* had a mind reading device, and knew *Hitchens* wanted others to be killed for holding a belief (like that people should be killed for holding a belief - lmao circular reasoning) then by *HITCHENS' OWN REASONING* they should kill Hitchens.
>>72432912
>Anglican Church
>based
It's shit.
>>72432964
Nigger we're comparing which shit smells the least like shit.
>>72433115
>Because they hold that others should be killed
no
because they kill others and join groups which kill others.
He wouldn't want someone killed only because they advocate violent things, though he would be very critical.
>>72426691
Pic related the better brother
>>72432964
>From the Kiddy-diddler religious sect of Christianity.
>thinks he can talk to anyone about religion
Tell your pontiff to stop sucking the toes of arabs.
:^)
>>72433395
Sure thing, anything else?
>>72426829
>long incoherent sentences
>trying to downplay the fact that Dawkins was one of the best orators in the past few decades
>>72433219
not an argument
>>72433321
So you're telling me, with a straight face, that if Hitchens had a mind reading device, and knew for a fact that x person would seek to kill him or someone else if that person held y belief, that Hitchens *wouldn't* want that man killed? Say y belief in this case is a want of freedom from sharia.
>>72426691
>Hitchens
that alcoholic that died of liver cancer?
>>72433793
And was followed by a christian doctor until his last days, yes
>>72427525
Trump, Hitch was a single issue voter
He argued for unpredictability of US military, said that Middle Eastern situation should've been resolved already, was a kike lover, and seen the inception of today's SJW movement(he wasn't called neo con, though somewhat unrightly so, for nothing)
I'm not saying he wouldn't shit all over this election, probably calling it the worst in the American history, but I believe he'd ultimately side with Trump.
That said, maybe he would've dismissed Trump from the beginning and never really turn MAGA because muh consistency
>>72430796
>comments disabled
Haven't watched the whole thing yet but I can already tell it's been BTFO a million times.
>>72433611
well, if you imply by "seek" that X person would be about to try to physically murder someone soon, he'd probably want them arrested.
If a person told hitchens he should be dead for insulting islam, hitchens would probably say he has a right to that opinion and that he's scum
if that person made it as a threat, hitch would want him arrested, and I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to kill someone in self defense.
he definitely wouldn't advocate execution in a free nation for any ideal, though.
of course, when you join a terrorist group that works against our nation it's a different story. that makes you a part of a significant opposing military force, you could say.
>>72433921
He hated authoritarianism like nothing else, stop kidding yourself. He would have been right in the "OMG TRUMP IS HITLER" libtard corner and probably endorsed Barnie Sanders
>>72433793
Liver cancer was secondary you faggot.
>>72433921
>was a kike lover,
he was very critical of isreal and isreali factions on many fronts multiple times
>>72434170
So exactly what is said is true - he would kill people for holding a belief that other people should be killed for holding a belief.
And by that logic, he should also be killed. But he'd object to that because he was a hedonistic selfish prick.
>>72427525
Dude, he hated the Clintons so much he wrote a book about them.
He actually said that Hillary felt that she was owed the presidency because her husband raped other chicks.
>Also, Hitchens was a Neo-Con who strongly supported the war against Iraq, so he'd probably rather side with Hillary, with NATO, against the evil Christians in Russia etc.
He was never a Neo-Con.
He supported the war against Iraq because Saddam was the objectively worst dictator alive at the time.
He was there when they opened the mass graves and desribed how it felt to be have human remains stick to his skin.
>>72434345
>he would kill people for holding a belief that other people should be killed for holding a belief
no, he'd kill them for being a part of a military force that threatens us and our allies
or for being killers themselves
the disgusting ideology is just what leads to that
>>72434196
he was smart enough to see through such kind of nonsense
>>72434291
good point, still a kike lover though
>>72432964
being derived from nigs doesn't mean breeding with them is necessarily acceptable -- the two concepts are mutually exclusive
we're derived from monkeys, too -- should we fuck monkeys?... plankton?
>>72433971
It's a christfag version of the binding problem. The real deal goes on like this
>serotonine causes happiness
>serotonine is a molecule inducing specific neuron firing sequences, that is, electric impulses
>electric impulses are happiness
>who is happy?
>what's the relationship between happiness and electrical impulses?
>or maybe it's the electricity that is happy?
There is a gap between physical reality and qualitative sensation. While they are related, materialistic approaches do not explain how and why. They just explain what happens on one side of the bridge.
The only way to keep some logical consistency is to postulate that consciousness is something qualitatively different from matter, arising whenever you have a sufficiently advanced information network.
As a property, it must be rooted in something else, maybe it's an underlying property of our physical universe,obeying laws we yet don't understand
>>72434604
I'm not the one retweeting BMWF pictures here, sonny boy
>>72434291
>he was very critical of isreal and isreali factions on many fronts multiple times
I loved Hitchens, and the only thing i can think of where he wasn't rational at all was his love of jews, himself being one.
He argued multiple times that antisemitism was totally baseless.
He still spoke up for that holocaust "denier" historian that was imprisoned in austria, defending his right to free inquiry and called him a great scholar of WW2.
>>72434487
You conceded the mind-reading example. If someone was willing and intended to kill someone - which is entirely simply belief and not action - for holding that they should be free from sharia, Hitchens would indeed want that person killed. Everything he ever said indicates that.
That is why it's cognitive dissonance. He held the belief that people who hold certain beliefs that other people should be killed for holding certain beliefs should be killed. Nothing stops Mahmed from utilizing that same reasoning back at him, but Hitchens would object to Mahmed doing so, because he was a weasel.
>>72434757
Well, yeah, he wasn't an antisemite. I'd say arguing that it's because he has jewish lineage himself is misleading though. He didn't know that until he was into his adult life and his major emotional loyalty was to the USA and americans at every turn
I'm glad you brought up his defense of david irving, yes. he caught quite a lot of heat for that.
>>72434611
Is this the same problem where scientists/philosophers can't explain why humans perceive things at a fundamental level? Like why we see the color yellow as "yellow"
>>72434790
I'm going to back out of this now.
The mind reading example is where this jumped the shark, we are speaking in his place far too much
I want to leave by saying that Hitchens wouldn't want anyone killed for their beliefs alone. Period. He hated all concepts of thought crime and always advocating protecting extreme ideas, even more so than mundane ones.
I'm sure he'd kill someone in self defense, and I'm sure he'd want to destroy our enemies.
I'm also sure he'd never want anyone killed for simply sharing any idea, no matter what it is... beyond the idea of "I'm about to harm you" which again is self defense
>>72435547
Intentionality + qualia.
Physicalism/materialism/empiricism have so many glaring holes. And they'll just say - probably until the end of time itself - "just because we haven't figured out a way to explain it in physical terms doesn't mean we won't".
>>72426775
Sorry Hitchens criticized Islam, my Swedish friend.
>>72435788
You can believe that about Hitchens. That's not what I believe about Hitchens given what I heard and read from him.
I don't know Hitchens, because I can't read his mind, but I certainly have enough of an impression of him in his voluminous empty rhetoric and ideologue-ing that I'm willing to talk about his words as if he believed them.
>>72434676
i don't care what ronyons with jungle fever stuff inside their acidic sarlaac pits, fagget
slatterns are a dying gender anyway...
>>72435547
Yes. If you want the real redpill (which convinced me that atheism is an intellectually unsustainable position) is this
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness
It doesn't mean christianity/induism/whatever is correct. Maybe religion and the notion of God was just a way to simplify this kind of knowledge to the uneducated masses and make sure it wouldn't have been lost.
Oh and probably reincarnation is real
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_B._Tucker
>>72436013
I mean, the scariest thing about this, the thing that worries me is that I'm getting a real impression that beyond a thin sheet you're on the side of the extremist murderers in this conversation
I mean, the entire stance we're discussing is his loud stance to destroy the extremists groups in the middle east
