"A man has been held in prison for seven months after failing to decrypt two hard drives that investigators suspect contain indecent images of children.
A court order says the man will remain jailed "until such time that he fully complies" with an order to unlock the password-protected devices"
>be American
>refuse to give police all of your passwords
>be jailed indefinitely until you do
L
O
L
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36159146
Old Thread
>>72416600
Most relevant review of the various US court rulings on compelled decryption.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/appeals-court-fifth-amendment-protections-can-apply-to-encrypted-hard-drives/
Encrypted drives should have two passwords. One that will unlock it and one that will completely scrub the data and fill it with bullshit 1s and 0s, then unlock it.
That way you could be force to give a password, but you give the other one and just show the court that there's nothing but junk on the drive
Spanish Inquisition? More like American inquisition.
You have no rights, encrypt your files on externals buried in the woods or something, move to Roanapur.
>be American
>conceal what is probably evidence in a child porn investigation according to a trail of incriminating evidence that culminated in a search warrant
>go to jail until you turn that shit over or prove it doesn't exist (by turning what they thought was that shit over)
Sounds about right.
>>72422259
He's guilty of obstructing justice, don't try and act like this is an innocent man (otherwise he would absolve himself and aid the state in whatever way he could.)
He was tracked downloading illegal content off a watch site (like a fucking BAIT CAR) and is getting BTFO for it now.
You people are such hypocrites, you are saying HE DINDU NUFFIN just like blacks, when in fact he DIDDU SUMFIN
>>72422181
>No, he turned the file cabinet over.
With the files in them. Why are you so zealous in advocating that which would be considered a violation of your basic civil rights in most of the free world?
Why are Anglos so eternally Anglo?
Repost from last thread. Also a short word of welcome to the newcomers: Be prepared to be awed and stupified at the amount of totalitarian Anglos in /pol/ advocating forcing people to help convicting themselves.
>>72422259
>want to hold someone in jail forever
>arrest them and take their hard disks
>password protect them yourself
>tell the judge the disks are password protected and you need him to tell you the password
>which he doesn't know
>judge agrees to hold him until he gives the passwords
ayy lmao
>>72422435
There would NEVER be a technological remedy to THAT! So clever.
>>72422462
>be American suspect
>have literally no rights
Apparantly this is about right in the current year.
If they have a warrant this is essentially legal though excessive. Also are these fucks too lazy to crack it?
>>72422462
>be american
>conceal material
>have investigation against you
>be forced to aid the investigation against you
>be forced to prove your own innocence instead of having the court required to prove guilt
>get indefinitely jailed without ever being conviced of anything, only based on accusations
Damn I'm glad I live in a comparably free country.
>>72422486
>implying people can't forget passwords, especially encrypted ones
>implying some "data evidence" found is reliable
>>72422502
For kiddie porn? They SHOULD convict themselves.
Proofs that TrueCrypt is still secure
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/28/brazil_banker_crypto_lock_out/
>>72422502
>With the files in them
They're encrypted. It's the equivalent of all the files in the cabinet being shredded.
Only in this case you actually have a way to put that shit back together that you DIDN'T turn over
>>72422565
So do kiddie diddlers walk free in your shithole?
>>72422486
>don't try and act like this is an innocent man (otherwise he would absolve himself and aid the state in whatever way he could.)
Wow.
>(like a fucking BAIT CAR)
Another thing that isn't technically legal in civilised countries, at least not in the way US bait cars are sometimes deployed.. (With running engines, unlocked, keys in ignition).
>You people are such hypocrites, you are saying HE DINDU NUFFIN just like blacks, when in fact he DIDDU SUMFIN
Kek. When did you start supporting totalitarianism, anon?
>>72422568
>this is essentially legal
No, it isn't.
>just crack it like on the tv shows :^)
Epic, simply epic.
>>72422565
>have literally no rights
He has a right to not testify to the nature of the contents of the hard drives and any connections he may have to them as well as the right to not tell the cops about any other data he may have stored elsewhere.
>>72422435
pointless.
Just clone the drive before trying the password.
>>72422639
Being a pedophile may be okay in your shit hole but it is not okay here. Pedophiles do not deserve rights and personally I am smiling at how BTFO this guy is. He has no options to get out of this and I find that very very funny
>>72422647
Well worded and concise rebbutal.
>>72422580
That's why you get fined for nazi shit?
And what about the articles censored in your country?
Enjoy your propaganda on YouTube
>>72422724
>what is innocent before proven guilty, the fucking cornerstone of modern, western society
land of the free
>>72422726
You say wrong, me say not wrong. You wrong.
>>72422724
>Pedophiles do not deserve rights
If you rob any of your people of their rights, then no one has secure rights anymore. At that point there's precedent for revoking rights, and they'll use it as much as they want.
>but nothing to hide nothing to fear
I can't wait for the day the NSA packs CP on your computer.
>>72422772
>That's why you get fined for nazi shit?
I said comparably.
>>72422611
>Eternal Anglo
>>72422618
>It's the equivalent of all the files in the cabinet being shredded.
No, it's the equivalent of the cabinet being locked. The suspect should not be forced to help open the cabinet under a civilised legal system..
>Only in this case you actually have a way to put that shit back together that you DIDN'T turn over
But he did turn it over. The prosecution is apparantly too incompetent to unlock the carrier.. But that shouldn't be the suspects problem by any stretch of the imagination.
>>72422637
They get convicted in courts of law without having their basic rights as suspects violated, and I imagine that some may walk free, yes. Beyond reasonable doubt in combination with the basic rights suspects have make it so that not all criminals get convicted.. That's just the way it is. Are you honestly advocating breaking down the rule of law as it is applied in most of the free world, in favor of totalitarianism?
>>72422724
>Pedophiles do not deserve rights
fucking boot lickers.
You don't deserve rights.
>>72422806
Except youre incorrect as its obstruction of justice and you can crack encrpyted files.
>>72422580
>get indefinitely jailed without ever being conviced of anything, only based on accusations
He's been found guilty of contempt of court.
>>72422462
>>72422486
>>72422565
>>72422787
>>72422724
>implying it's impossible to genuinely forget a password
also,
>>72422522
>>72422724
I am a hebephile and my attraction to 14 year old prime pussy is just as illegal as a pedophile's attraction to pre-pubescent children.
Please put me in prison without proving I commit any crime.
>>72422863
You get 7 months for that in the US? Damn.
>>72422834
>I have a right to diddle kids
>>72422818
>tfw NSA has the biggest kiddie porn collection
B-But it's ok they're the good guys.
>Average American
>>72422854
>its obstruction of justice
You wrong, amendment 5.
>you can crack encrpyted files
Then why don't they and just put him in prison for kiddie porn instead of wasting the court's time with this bullshit? Real life is not Law&Order, champ.
>>72422259
Damn, freedom, you scary!
>>72422925
>straw man
>>72422863
But doesn't the court order violate his constitutional stuff that you yanks love so much?
>>72422898
>Pedo getting butthurt over another pedo getting justice
No surprise here
>>72422832
>The suspect should not be forced to help open the cabinet under a civilised legal system.
Why should they be force to turn over the cabinet in the first place if they won't be force to open it and the police can't?
You're being a retard. Either you believe concealing evidence should be legal (in which case just say that and we'll agree to disagree), or you believe that this doesn't constitute concealing evidence (which it does in practice because the evidence, the information itself, is still god damn concealed from the police).
>>72422787
He was tracked doing illegal shit.
>>72422818
Ahmed for the last time you can't diddle kids
>>72422834
Yeah they don't deserve rights.
>>72422898
sure thing just hand over any images you may have downloaded, and oh I'll need all your passwords to any encrypted drives as well
>>72422435
That'll just get you jailed for destroying (potential) evidence, contempt, etc.
The second key should present a completely different, plausibly deniable filesystem with no incriminating data on it.
>>72422698
Yet he is forced to turn over the key? How is that not a violation of his rights of non self-incrimination?
>>72422724
>IN THE HOOOOOME OF THE BRAAAAAAAAVE
Eheheh.. You are so hilariously American it's unbelievable.
>>72422883
>>implying it's impossible to genuinely forget a password
>also,
I never implied that. But even if you do remember a password, authorities shouldn't be able to force you to turn them over JUST to help them convict you..
>>72422925
The reason why authorities always go on about CP and terrorism when it comes to eroding your rights, is becaue imbeciles like you swallow their shit whole.
>>72422943
>That false equivalency
Also this
>>72422379
Is the main issue.
>>72422724
>not proven guilty people goes to jail because fuck you
kek
>>72422904
>7 months
it varies by context. You can either get a small fine or be imprisoned indefinitely until you stop whatever behavior landed you in contempt, which could conceivably run out your natural lifespan depending on what you're doing.
>>72423032
>Why should they be force to turn over the cabinet in the first place if they won't be force to open it and the police can't?
They shouldn't.
In a civilized system, the police should be empowered to retrieve it, but you shouldn't be required to help them with it.
>>72423041
>he disagrees with setting precedent to taking essential rights from people
>must be a pedophile
>>72422982
Amendment 5 has nothing to do with this. The trial is going on and isnt being intentionally delayed by the court but by the defenant.
He hasnt been 100% proven yet and they havent been assed to crack it themselves.
>>72422854
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
You have a right to not incriminate yourself. This whole thing is ludicrously unconstitutional.
>>72423053
>Im a hebe
He admitted it
>>72422898
I'm not a pedo, and I'm not upset about this particular idiot getting caught, he deserves it if his sister really did see it, and if he didn't properly hide his shit.
>>72423041
>sure thing just hand over any images you may have downloaded, and oh I'll need all your passwords to any encrypted drives as well
I don't download images and I don't own any "encrypted drives", please feel free to prove I do.
>>72423125
Yeah, they just can't be assed to prove this supposed dangerous criminal belongs in prison, definitely.
>>72423041
I'm not seeing any factual evidence of CP images being on his drive.
What they said is as good as air and you can be jailed with that accusation too if you forget your passwords.
>>72422904
You get forever for that, or until you are no longer in contempt.
>>72423106
So, in other words, you can jail an american indefinitly, without conviction, by handing out a court order that they can't fulfill, and then holding them in contempt?
Land of the free.
And how is a court order to aid the investigation against yourself not illegal in the first place?
>Hey tell us where the murder weapon is
>eh I'll just stay silent
>contempt of court, enjoy ur jail
>>72423032
Again: There's an area between actively concealing and actively helping your own prosecution. I really don't get how that is so difficult for you to see... You don't even have to turn over the file cabinet. You just cannot resist authorities when they come in and take it.. The same goes for a harddrive or other data carrier. In civilised systems, you're expected to be passive, which is fine. Requiring you to ACTIVELY help prosecution is just totalitarian m8... If you cannot see that, like so many other Anglos seem unable to see it, I fear for the future of the US and UK and by proxy, the rest of Europe...
>>72422615
was he using truecrypt or a commercial solution though?
>>72422618
>Only in this case you actually have a way to put that shit back together that you DIDN'T turn over
Assuming he can remember the password, which is a clue that your position is faulty in general.
>>72423155
Hebephilia is perfectly natural, if the female body is old enough to produce eggs to be fertilized, why would it be wrong to be attracted to it and want to fertilize it in such a state?
>>72423190
Hes obstructing justice by withholding evidence
>>72422993
The password itself which he is being ordered to provide isn't something that could be used against him in court. He's already admitted to owning the drives.
We have a right to not admit to crimes or help police find evidence against us. We don't have a right to prevent police from accessing any potential evidence they've already found and if it isn't evidence against us, courts can order people to provide any truthful testimony as long as the order connects to a state interest.
>>72422259
>Man downloads illegal content, sexual images of chillems
>Own sister even claims she knows what he was doing
>/pol/: ugh like...this is so unfair.. this man dindu nuffin he a good boy gettin his life around. (w-what if I'm n-next?)
Honestly, honestly had on over to the middle east. They will accept you for what you are. Just uh watch out for drone stikes lmao.
>>72422615
>2010
I thank god every day I wasn't born i. The United States. What a farce.
You people lost all connection with reality.
>>72423068
The key isn't incriminatory. He's already admitted to ownership of the drives.
>>72422435
There's already encryption schemes that provide hidden paritions such as TrueCrypt.
Having schemes that scrub data would probably be considered destroying evidence which is a very serious crime. Plus law enforcement are going to mirror any drives they get before trying to unlock them making scrubbing useless. It's also obvious and slow.
>>72423258
Keep repeating it and it might become true.
He is not the prosecutor, he is not the police, it is not his job to send himself to prison.
>>72422486
>he would absolve himself
Ah, I understand now, he started guilty and needs to provide evidence to support his innocence.
>>72422259
Repeat after me.
LAND OF THE FREE
HOME OF THE BRAVE
DON'T HURT MY FEEFEE
IT WOULD BE QUITE GRAVE
May you dindu nuffin, amen.
>>72423273
Damn shame you weren't. BTFO'ing pedophiles is like a national pastime here.
>>72422259
He has a shitty lawyer. He complied and let them have the drives. He has no obligation to give them the password much like you have no obligation to give the government a combo to a safe
>>72423346
Now you're starting to get it.
>>72423131
Evidence isnt self incrimination
That would be like saying refusing to give fingerprints when accused is a right
>>72422898
>I am a hebephile
please get help as long as you can control yourself bro
>innocent until proven guilty
>unless we want to fuck someone up
USA is a joke
Fuck you USA
>>72423297
>The key isn't incriminatory.
Neither is telling the cops where the gun is, but you absolutely do incriminate yourself this way.
You should not be required to aid the investigation. At all. In any way or form. Requiring you to incriminate yourself, even by proxy, is unjust. It should be perfectly legal for you to do absolutely nothing at all.
>>72423266
>big gov decides it doesn't like you
>get accusation of being a terrorist contractor
>they put a password on your computer
>they demand the password from you
>you don't know
>they keep you in jail for as long as they want
land of the free, home of the brave
>>72423262
>accessing any potential evidence they've already found
They haven't found any "evidence". They don't know what is on the drives. Forcing the man to decrypt them is a violation of his fifth amendment rights.
>>72422943
holy shit mehmet you're retarded
>>72423111
>In a civilized system, the police should be empowered to retrieve it, but you shouldn't be required to help them with it.
>in a civilized society obstruction of justice should be legal
Um...what?
And we'll just have to agree to disagree with that, Germanbro.
Anyone that conceals evidence of a crime should also suffer a punishment for that act IMHO.
>>72423403
Age of consent is 16 in my home state so I can wait a couple years if I meet a younger girl that I want to marry and have kids with.
>>72423125
>>72423032
>>72423015
>>72422925
>>72423258
>>72423266
How is it still so easy to spot shills? You'd think they'd get better with time, but they only ever seem to get more obvious.
>>72422943
I bet you wish you could get your hands on that stash you dirty mudslime boy fucker
>>72423326
Wrong. He has the right to not admit he did it but he cant withhold evidence when there is a warrant.
>>72423131
Yes, because there totally haven't been rulings on this exact issue since, at least, 2000.
>>72423071
The US system isn't well defined, but it's not bad. The government has to be able to reasonably establish that the files exist. The UK, Canada, Australia, France, do not have to do so. You turn over the keys, or you go to prison. All they have to do is ask.
This case would be more interesting to discuss if the "you're all bootlickers" crowd would fuck off. They're actually trying to compel him via different means than has been used in the past. This could be establishing new, useful legal precedent.
>>72423364
I must admit I like chris hansens show and all the like. But this man is not a proven pedophile. You've convicted a man without any evidence.
I thought justice was held in high regard in the land of the 'free'
>>72422259
LAND OF THE FREE :DDD
>people are guilty until proven innocent
>people are required to incriminate themselves
>holding somebody without trial is okay
Holy shit what is wrong with /pol/ today?
>>72422259
Guilty until proven innovent if youre creepy xD
>>72423300
>Having schemes that scrub data would probably be considered destroying evidence which is a very serious crime.
Not really, many current consumer-tier devices provide such functionality. The iPhone for example will wipe all data if a key is incorrectly entered X number of times as set by the user.
Android also has such functionality. Information is not necessarily evidence. You don't have to store everything you ever did just in case it's needed at some future point in time to prosecute you with.
Plus law enforcement are going to mirror any drives they get before trying to unlock them making scrubbing useless. It's also obvious and slow.
Scrubbing is not slow. Try recreate an encrypted drive with even 5% turned into zeros. I wager it's impossible. Of course you're correct to suggest that law enforcement could take the drive before it is scrubbed, making scrubbing useless as the drive would be cloned.
>>72423478
Once again, why not just use their EPIN L33T HAX0R skills to hack the drive and prove it without him giving the password and send him off to prison to be raped and killed by niggers?
>>72422724
>x group of people dont deserve rights
literally hang yourself
>>72423258
The encryption key is evidence now?
>>72423478
Wrong. You have the right to not open the door if the police have a warrant to search your house. They'll just break your door down. In this case, the "door" can't be broken down so the cops are throwing a shitfit.
>>72423460
Obstruction of justice requires you to actively do something.
Not doing something isn't obstruction of justice.
>Anyone that conceals evidence of a crime should also suffer a punishment for that act IMHO.
He isn't. That would be if he learned of the investigation and then encrypted, or hid, the drives.
But, so long as he did it ahead of time - you can't interfere with an investigation that isn't yet ongoing. If you want to go down this path, there's a lot of bad shit waiting for you, and it only starts at outlawing encryption.
>>72423393
>Evidence isnt self incrimination
He is self-incriminating by giving a password. It shows ownership & control over the hard drives and their content.
In a jury trial, the government will not only be able to say we found these hard drives in his house (or wherever he had them) but they will also be able to say "and he had the password to them."
There is literally nothing wrong with this. If he was innocent he would give out the password and that's it. Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a disgusting kiddy diddler
>>72423041
>He was tracked doing illegal shit.
Then why was he not convicted for doing illegal shit, rather than held on grounds of not cooperating with his own prosecution, anon?
>Yeah they don't deserve rights.
But he hasn't been convicted of shit, anon. By that logic you don't deserve any rights either...
>>72423297
Why should he be required to do more? On what grounds?
>>72423472
>Implying their shills
>Implying this is not what many Americans are simply like when the government dangles a disaster, terrorism or some CP in front of them
Americans are pretty docile, and very authoritarian.
>>72422259
>be american
>grow vegetables
>go to jail
>be american
>gather rainwater
>go to jail
>be american
>tweet "nigger"
>go to jail
>be american
>play league of legends
>go to jail
>be american
>grow watercress
>go to jail
>be american
>play fresh prince theme
>go to jail
In what way exactly is America the land of the free? I mean, you're free to have a nigger president, 100 million non-whites in your country and daily school shootings, but otherwise you look like giant cucks to me.
>>72422724
you need evidence like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6excOGUTuLI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddNtu_itd3s
>>72423445
See the difference here is that the man's IP was tracked and linked with downloading things he wasn't supposed to be downloading, off sites under surveillance.
>>72423498
He isn't a proven pedophile because he is hiding evidence
>inb4 i forget my passwords all the time brah
As soon as those drives become viewable you know damn well what they are going to find on it
>>72423529
He hasnt been found guilty yet
The trial is ongoing
He is obstructing justice by withholding evidence they have a warrant for
>>72423064
That's already a thing. It takes some work to set up but if you're smart and working with illegal things, you probably already do it.
>>72423237
Because it's illegal, just like drinking under 21, except you gotta pay your taxes and go under a student loan at 18 like a good goy, don't worry your government knows what's best for you.
>>72423071
??
>>72423455
???
>>72423473
Nah thanks I'm good. There's infinite porn out there for me anyways. I just don't think state should have that amount of authority.
>>72422259
Give me the drive , i guarantee i can unlock. Just need a bit of info on the guy , pw's are easy as hell to guess. Even given that you can force it open.
>>72422854
Then crack them and prove he did something wrong.
As it is he is imprisoned without conviction, and that is unconstitutional.
>>72423529
>Holy shit what is wrong with /pol/ today?
>/pol/ is not full of totalitarian-minded people
What do you mean, 'today'?
>>72422832
>implying Anglo is an insult
>>72423192
Case mirrors in more respects a 2006 case where the suspect was compelled to decrypt the files.
Witness saw CP on the laptop. Laptop was closed, automatically encrypted. Government was able to compel decryption because they could establish that they already knew the files existed.
Similar case in 2012, existence of the files was established by recorded telephone conversation from jail.
>>72423571
Prosecution believes that theres evidence on the drive
>>72423630
Yeah I haven't done it but I've heard of it being done.
Hence the suggestion that its a better plan :)
>>72423612
There's also the option that they've been overwriting his drives with a different, encrypted filesystem. In that case, he won't ever be able to provide the keys.
This is how you keep someone in prison, forever, without trial. All you have to do is overwrite one hard drive.
You want your government to have this power?
>>72423273
It has been declared by federal courts several times for forced password revelation is unconstitutional.
>>72423393
You can refuse.
It is a right to refuse.
Of course, the cop then has the right to take your print anyway.
>>72423691
Not if you're a totalitarian freedom hater, no.
>>72423572
You dont have any right to withhold evidence that theres a warrant for.
>>72423198
>Hey tell us where the murder weapon is
>eh I'll just stay silent
>contempt of court, enjoy ur jail
That's not this situation. You wouldn't have to comply with that order.
This situation is
>hey, we know you own this particular model gun and believe it to be a murder weapon based on a string of circumstantial evidence linking you to the murer, tell us where it is so that we can confirm whether or not it is
>I do own that gun but I'm not going to tell you where I put it
>contempt of court, enjoy ur jail
nuffin wrong
>>72422259
I can't wait till those hard drives are decrypted.
/pol/ is going to be BTFO until the end of time it will be hilarious
>>72423656
Attraction itself is not illegal, having sex with a 14 year old would be illegal, but like I said I could contain myself a couple years if I met a girl I liked.
>>72423592
Thats like saying you self incriminate with DNA
>>72423393
That's not even remotely the same thing. And yes, being forced to provide evidence that incriminates yourself is, in fact, self-incriminating.
>>72423721
>implying the US government needs additional powers to jail people indefinitely without trial
My mouth literally curled into a smile IRL, though it didn't quite constitute a LOL.
>>72423669
Wrong. The trial is ongoing
>>72422486
>don't try and act like this is an innocent man
but isn't that exactly how your legal system is supposed to work though?
>>72423721
You are being extremely paranoid anon, what illegal shit do you download?
>>72423378
Except that precedent has never once been accepted as applying to encryption keys.
>>72423763
We don't care about his CP, it's pretty obvious he has it, we care about his constitutional rights being shit on and kids like you that are supposed to be the future of our country not caring.
>>72423748
>hey, we know you own this particular model gun and believe it to be a murder weapon based on a string of circumstantial evidence linking you to the murer, tell us where it is so that we can confirm whether or not it is
>sorry, yeah I owned one like these, but if it's not where I said earlier, I lost it or it was stolen
>we don't believe you, contempt of court, held in prison forever with no trial
That's the situation.
>>72423735
Or hold you until you give it
>>72423210
Encrypting the information, whether done before or after the search order, is an active measure of concealment
>Japan-tier legal system
>>72423709
He gave them the drives right?
Do the cops just give up when you don't open the front door when they serve a warrant?
>>72423776
What is a warrant
>>72423612
Do you know how many idiots have some trojan on their PCs that dowloads and seeds all kinds of illegal shit in the background without them ever noticing? This is not about this one case, it's about giving the governemt the tools to make people disappear without trial.
>>72423236
>Assuming he can remember the password, which is a clue that your position is faulty in general.
Nope, that's a reasonable assumption to make.
>>72423809
>nothing to hide
>nothing to fear
Good luck with that. I'm sure your government would never do anything shady. Best hope you're never uncomfortable to your overlords.
I was sure this was going to be a case in the UK
Jesus America, how the mighty have fallen
>>72423809
>what illegal shit do you download?
Germans regularly get fines or settlement offers simply for downloading music, films or games... So probably: Not much different than the illegal shit you download.
>>72423846
Thats why theyre holding him
>>72423809
maybe a picture of a swastika? a photo of hitler petting a dog? a demotivational poster about migrants? you know, yuros have every reason to be fearful of authoritarianism
>>72423854
You're pretty retarded buddy
If a judge handed you a warrant to confess to a crime, it'd be just as unconstitutional as this.
>>72423623
>obstructing justice by exercising his constitutional right
so?
>>72423866
>random password on a piece of paper
>eat paper when you see the cops roll up outside
>>72423452
>Forcing the man to decrypt them is a violation of his fifth amendment rights.
That'd only be the case if
1. They were evidence
and
2. Decrypting them was tantamount to providing testimony, which it isn't.
>>72423529
Some people are bootlickers that have no concept of "innocent until proven guilty".
>>72423836
>Encrypting the information, whether done before or after the search order, is an active measure of concealment
It's not illegal though. And requiring you to decrypt it requires you to actively help your own prosecution, which should be a violation of your right to non-self incrimination.
In civilised jurisdictions anyway.
>>72423927
Hes not ordering him to confess you retard
You cant refuse to give prints or dna samples
>>72423946
If they're neither evidence nor testimony, on what grounds can you force him to hand it over?
>>72423765
Nah, your system(also our system) is fucked beyond fixing. I think people should be allowed to marry&work after puberty but now you have an unrealistic choice to find a 14 yold sweetheart wait for 4 years and then start working&marrying vs study find work and marry with 30 yold female who had 100's of dicks inside of her meanwhile supporting your black teenage mom with your taxes.
>>72423830
Thank god at least one american understands the problems here.
>>72423670
there's usually a stronger showing from the 'government get out reeeeeeeeeeee' crowd.
>>72423976
>You cant refuse to give prints or dna samples
You literally can.
>>72423929
Warrant
look it up
>>72423258
Protip son, if you are accused of something, you can literally shut your eyes, cover your ears, and not make a sound for the entire process, and there's nothing anybody can do to FORCE you to interact in any way with the process.
It is up to them to prove you did something, NOT up to you to prove you didn't.
In my opinion this is a case of being forced to testify against yourself.
Isn't it illegal for the government to compel speech in the US?
>>72424022
No you cant if they have a warrant
Refusing is obstructing justic3
>>72423976
>You cant refuse to give prints or dna samples
Yes, you absolutely can. The cops will take them anyway, but you can refuse.
>>72423946
That goes against several federal rulings.
>>72423946
>2. Decrypting them was tantamount to providing testimony, which it isn't.
How is compelling someone to tell law enforcement what their passphrase is, not compelling testimony in your strange world???
>>72423996
>30 yold female who had 100's of dicks inside of her
>that inferiority complex
>>72423830
>we don't care about illegal images of abused children in sexual situations.
Yes /pol/ has made it very clear they don't give a shit about exploited and abused kids. They are more interested in feeling bad for a pedophile.
>>72423595
>Why should he be required to do more? On what grounds?
On the grounds that it's a lawful court order and providing the key isn't a 5th amendment violation since the key itself isn't incriminating evidence?
>>72423976
>You cant refuse to give prints or dna samples
You can. And police will try to take it by force then... Which you can't resist. But in this case, the suspect has not resisted authorities taking his drives. They're just mad they're too incompetent to do something with it...
>>72423976
giving the encryption key is the same as confessing.
>>72424076
You have no right to refuse
You can try to
Thats my point
>>72424026
and the constitution says that warrant has no power
>>72423460
>You get accused of killing someone
>Prosecutor claims you hid the gun
>You fail to tell them where the gun is
>You go to jail forever, longer in fact than the murder would have required
>>72424070
You get your legal info from the movies or something?
>cops so bad they cant h@ck a drive
Reminds me of how RosCumNadzor banned 4chan over here, which could be bypassed by using fucking https or opera turbo mode.
Why so incompetent, murrica? Think of the children!
>>72424053
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning
Yes, but it seems that's been thrown out the window
>>72423935
>he concealed evidence
>this means he shouldn't be held for concealing evidence
>>72424117
Okay so now every single pedophile in the US can just encrypt their shit and get off scott-free. Good job
>>72424097
Can you prove he has illegal images of abused children in sexual situations? No? Well I guess his rights end where your feelings begin.
>>72424211
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_formulation
>>72424045
Also even if there isnt the suspected child porn on the harddrive there still might be other incriminating stuff.
>>72424115
This guy gets it.
>Hey this woman says she saw illegal digital content on your computer, but we can see that you encrypted it. Give us the password or you'll rot in jail without a trial.
>What? I left the room for 10 minutes and she encrypted it, i don't have the password!
>Whelp to jail you go then.
Sweden might be overrun by sandpeople but at least i'm not living in a third world country (yet).
>>72424092
>inferiority complex
How so?
>>72423064
The democrat presidential candidate destroyed and is still concealing evidence of the crimes. Only the powerful in american get away with a crime.
>>72423595
I've literally never met another American that thinks this way, only shills and cuckfags from the liberal fiefdoms like Commiefornia and Jew York. Where I come from, Americans are anything but docile.
Usually, the pro-statist propaganda you see on here is run out of the National Clandestine Service, courtesy of CIA/SAD, and headed by a guy named Greg Vogel. You see it explode anytime we talk about things that challenge state power, like the militia movement and encryption. In this instance, they're trying to set the narrative of, "you're a pedo if you don't believe in forcing people to incriminate themselves". It's a part of the broader anti-encryption initiative that's been going on for the past couple years, and it's really fucking pathetic.
>>72423747
>Police get warrant for gun you killed bob with
>You didn't kill bob
>There is no gun
>You are now jailed forever for not producing gun
>>72424199
The problem with that kind of reasoning is that he would even be in prison if he wasn't concealing evidence.
>>72424199
He shouldn't, unless he actively tampered with the evidence after having knowledge of the investigation.
In civilized parts of the world, anyways.
The alternative is just abandoning cryptography in the first place, as it'd be worthless.
>>72423606
>land of the free
>have more prisoners than most countries have people
>>72424218
Clearly they had some type of proof otherwise this fucko wouldn't be in this situation. He was TRACKED downloading cp.
>>72423994
Courts can order people to do all sorts of shit, m8.
>>72424090
>tes·ti·mo·ny
>ˈtestəˌmōnē/Submit
>noun
>a formal written or spoken statement, especially one given in a court of law.
Unlocking a hard drive isn't a formal written or spoken statement. It's not a formal anything.
>>72424211
Yes.
As it should be.
It's a victimless crime anyway, like copyright infringement.
>>72423802
M8.
Plz.
Plz.
M8.
Just.
m8...
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/right-to-a-speedy-jury-trial.html
>>72424306
>clearly
Then why has he not been convicted yet?
>>72424267
what does your screencap mean?
>>72422450
To be fair Torquemada's approach was perfectly reasonable
>loads of jews and muslims forced to convert or GTFO after reconquista
>somehow people think it's wrong that he makes sure the new converts aren't just saying they've converted to christianity
Since we're on the subject, if you come across a picture through your browser that happens to be illegal then is the picture on your hard drive waiting to be dug up?
>>72424318
>Courts can order people to do all sorts of shit, m8.
And they shouldn't be allowed to.
Your courts have way too much power m8. They should, in fact, not have any power to compel anyone under investigation to do anything.
>>72424306
So let the case be decided based on the merits or otherwise of that evidence.
>>72423830
Read what your wrote again, and understand why you'll never win this argument.
Well, that and the fact that all but one court ruling on this subject has been to compel the person to decrypt their files.
This is technology creating a box that can't be opened. If the government can reasonably establish that the files are in there, you have to open it.
If this were a pure fishing expedition, the single precedent for not compelling decryption would be relevant, and this guy would be free.
>>72423529
>Holy shit what is wrong with /pol/ today?
/pol is full of whitenight moralfags from both left and right, whose only moral imperrative is, but muh children. These very same shitheads will be the first to have loliporn planted on their hd/cloud by NSA. Good riddance. I hope it felt good to be moralfagging on an imageboard, only to later find yourself framed and fucked
>>72424383
For most people, yes.
>>72424113
But does he not have the right to not have to actively force his own prosecution? Because if he doesn't, I'd leave the country if I were you..
>lawful order
Kek. If forcing to self-incriminate is a lawful order, DEFINITELY leave the country, anon.
>>72424097
>>72424211
>More intersted in feeling bad for a pedophile
>People have rights, good job.
>Literally 'MUH KIDS AND MUH FEELINGS TRUMP YOUR RIGHTS'- The Argument
>On /pol/
>Wondering why people think you're a cunt
You have to go back, anon.
>Pedos have a right to withhold evidence when theres a warrant and police have probable cause to search his hard drives due to internet activity
Maybe you constitutional warriors should look into this instead of screaming about rights violations.
>>72424352
Are you pretending to be retarded just like the accused? Are you just "forgetting" what has been talked about in this thread?
>>72424327
I'm "shocked" a pedophile thinks this way
>>72424383
I believe that some Americans have been arrested and convicted on the basis of thumbnail images downloaded and cached by their web browsers.
>>72424155
>You go to jail forever, longer in fact than the murder would have required
Don't be silly, you can only be held until the statute of limitations on the killing runs out.
And if you don't appeal that you don't possess the gun, and even admit you do, yeah, enjoy jail or turn over the fucking gun dipshit.
>>72424383
>if you come across a picture through your browser that happens to be illegal then is the picture on your hard drive waiting to be dug up?
Yes.
Everything you see on the internet must necessarily be downloaded first, or you wouldn't be able to see it. Anything you download ends up in your cache, i.e. saved on your pc.
Even after deleting your cache, it's quite possible the image persists on the drive for an extended time, seeing how operating systems usually only delete the pointer towards the file, not the file itself.
If you can't set up an automatic DBAN on entry of an incorrect password you don't deserve freedom
>>72422259
Does this not come under 5th amendment right to not incriminate yourself?
>>72424306
> clearly the police never go after the wrong person or make any kind of mistake whatsoever.
Why even have courts?
If the police are after you, you must be guilty.
>>72424295
I don't get this picture.
Isn't this picture usually for when Americabear says something stupid?
>>72424429
So if i go to your house, encrypt your harddrive and then go as a witness to the police stating that i saw you having CP on it, you think you should rot in prison forever?
>>72424410
It's morning and the weekend is starting, lots of normalfags will be here.
I usually don't browse unless it's late at night on week days, because there are simply far too many "muh feelings" faggots on that simply throw any semblance of reason they held out the window at the drop of a hat.
>>72424451
So you can't prove he has these images? Is this your final answer?
>>72424353
Government shills accidentally posting the wrong things and getting outed. The thread was in response to the same thing happening on GLP in threads about Sandy Hook.
>pic related
>>72424476
It doesnt due to probable cause
Theyve tracked his activity downloading files suspected of being cp.
>>72424429
He has the right to silence. He is supposed to be assumed innocent. Forcing a man to speak against himself is a constitutional violation.
>>72424451
Who exactly is harmed by this guy downloading some japanese loli?
>>72424318
>telling someone something or typing it on a keyboard isn't a statement
Then what is a statement?
>>72424267
Americans are extremely authority-friendly when compated to many other places.. Perhaps in part because your authorities have no quarrel with shooting you for disobeying... Luckily Americans usually obey, even when ordered to literally give up rights guaranteed them by the bill of Rights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo
Hurry along to a Free Speech Zone to protest this insanity, anon.
>>72424090
Why don't you read the half dozen Federal Court rulings that have compelled people to decrypt files?
Because you don't know shit about the law?
>>72423946
Do you not understand what testimony is?
You are not required to speak to the police, in any way, at all.
>>72423439
And it is , this guy just has a shitty lawyer
Wait, why don't they get somebody to hack into the hard drive then? If he did have child pornography on it he wouldn't admit to having it on there anyway.
>>72424604
If you need a good lawyer to get your basic rights, the system is in deep shit.
>>72424529
>a person who thinks sexual images of actual children is wrong = a normalfag.
>>72424550
If that constitutes a reason to ignore the 5th amendment, how does it not constitute evidence?
>>72424306
>US authorities never fuck up
Lel. Where do they breed people like you?
>>72424053
Yes, there are just bootlickers in this thread that don't understand their own rights.
>>72424550
"Probably cause" doesn't invalidate a constitutional right against self-incrimination.
>>72424318
>Unlocking a hard drive isn't a formal written or spoken statement. It's not a formal anything.
>mfw I can't tell if you're trolling or not.
By being forced to to speak, or write something you are being forced to give testimony, thus, if you are forced to speak, or write your passphrase down, so your drive can be decrypted and presented as evidence in a court of law you against are ... being forced to provide testimony to self incriminate.
I suggest you check the 5th Amendment.
Unless you're trying to say there is a computer exception to the 5th Amendment...
>>72422259
I can't wait until I move out of this country. The American Dream is over. I don't give a shit abot CP, but this man has a right to privacy and its being trampled all over.
>>72424291
>He shouldn't, unless he actively tampered with the evidence after having knowledge of the investigation.
>A person commits the crime of tampering with evidence when he or she knowingly:
>alters, conceals, falsifies, or destroys
>any record, document, or tangible object
>with the intent to interfere with an investigation, possible investigation, or other proceeding by the federal government.
>(18 U.S.C. § 1519.)
>conceals
>possible investigation
/thread
>>72424568
THINK OF THE CHILDREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN
WHAT IF THAT SCRIBBLE WAS YOUR DAUGHTER? HE MIGHT AS WELL HAVE BEEN MASTURBATING TO YOUR DAUGHTER! HE MADE HIS PENIS EJACULATE WITH YOUR DAUGHTER! HE ABUSED YOUR DAUGHTER!
>>72424653
So you can't prove he commit a crime, yet you think he should be in prison anyway? And do you fancy yourself a fair or just individual?
>>72424458
So what happens if they didn't even know it was on there drive?
>>72424248
Except for in your fantasies between sucking muslim dick, no one is claiming anything like that.
You're just making shit up because the actual facts make you look like an asshole defending a pedohile.
>>72424679
Wouldn't be the first time the government and its bootlickers have tried to do just that.
>>72424707
Ad hominem.
Explain where i was wrong, what assumption did i make that was wrong?
>>72424590
>The government does it, so it must be right
Wew..
>>72424705
Sucks to be them, I guess.
>>72424634
Because you can't just hack it. He 100% has the images. /pol/ armchair lawyers are arguing that his rights are being violated, even though this guy has been looking at violated children for who knows how long.
>>72424699
Why doesn't he just hand over the passwords? Oh yeah, because he did do it lol. He sits in jail for a long time either way :)
>>72424692
You can never be sure there's NOT an investigation going on.
Hence, you always have to assume it's possible there's an investigation going on.
Hence, you are never allowed to alter, conceal, falsify, or destroy any document, record or tangible object.
Hence, any american can be prosecuted for tampering with evidence at all times, indiscriminately.
Hence, the law in unjust.
>>72424279
I didn't think snow niggers could get more retarded.
police get a warrant to search for a gun. They don't find it. The end. This is shockingly regular occurrence.
>>72424634
>Wait, why don't they get somebody to hack into the hard drive then?
Because encryption these days is strong enough that it might take experts lots of money and time to even possibly get into an encrypted drive or partition... Especially if the encryption key is any good.
>>72424792
Use that evidence that gives you 100% knowledge that the images are there to prosecute then.
>>72424792
>/pol/ armchair lawyers are arguing that his rights are being violated, even though this guy has been looking at violated children for who knows how long.
If you could prove that you wouldn't need him to hand over evidence for you, huh?
>>72424792
>because he did do it lol
Wait a second, I believe you've lost me, when did we prove that he possessed these images?
>>72424589
You only seem to know the America you see online and on TV. Disposition varies greatly across the US, from one extreme to the next.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/brothers-killed-deputy-friend-put-billboard-photos-victims-bodies-article-1.1157722
I could see at least half of the people I know personally doing the same thing.
>>72424199
>The charge of destroying or concealing evidence is a misdemeanor. The maximum penalty is 6 months in county jail, a fine of up to $1,000, or both.
>Already been in jail for 7 months
Wew lad, what's it like to be retarded?
>>72424880
>>72424857
/thread
>>72422462
>http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/appeals-court-fifth-amendment-protections-can-apply-to-encrypted-hard-drives/
Ahh right - forget the US justice work the negative way:
You are guilty until YOU can prove other.
Ok, you cant prove or look for evidence because you are in jail but THATS your problem not theirs !
>>72423452
>They haven't found any "evidence". They don't know what is on the drives.
lol By your logic the cops would never be allowed to search anywhere for evidence.
"If you haven't found the evidence then you can't search for it. Checkmate, judge!"
Christ, no wonder all those pedo on How to catch a Predator sound retarded.
>>72424809
If the document, record or tangible object is evidence of a crime, yes.
Otherwise no, but the cops might accidentally come at you regardless, that's why we have an appeals process.
As I've said before, don't accidentally create locked spaces you can't get into which look like they contain evidence of a felony.
Also, methinks the pedo's encrypted hard drives were probably encrypted to hide evidence of being a pedo so he totally tampered with evidence.
>>72424692
>with the intent to interfere with an investigation
keywords right there.
He encrypted before there was any investigation. Case closed.
>>72422259
To any normal people still posting in this thread.
There is no point continuing an argument with pedophile posters, they will simply pick apart words from your post without actually absorbing the entire content. Producing straw man arguments against the words they selected from your post, and seemingly forget every other post prior to that one.
It's like explaining something to 10 second Tom. By the time you retort they will have already forgotten what you said before and you will be caught in the "pedo loop"
>>72423053
what the hell is this russian chicken meme?
>>72422259
The court is legally allowed to do this as per the All Writs Act.
Argue against the law itself, not against the legal enforcement of the law.
>>72424792
>even though this guy has been looking at violated children for who knows how long.
So where is the evidence? If there is apparantly evidence of this that goes beyond 'some cunt possibly saw a picture of something naked that might or might not have been an underage human child in a sexual context', why not just jail him based on that evidence?
>Why doesn't he just hand over the passwords? Oh yeah, because he did do it lol. He sits in jail for a long time either way :)
Why are you so heavily opposed to basic rights for suspects?
>>72424812
>police get a warrant to search for a gun. They don't find it. The end. This is shockingly regular occurrence.
Except in this case, they are looking for CP, and instead want the accused to assist them with their search.
It's like forcing the accused or suspect to search their own house with the police to make the accused look for evidence against themselves to satisfy a prosecution of themselves. It's completely bizarre and something out of the USSR.
>>72424969
You upset me this morning.
7/10.
>>72424903
Welcome to the world of contempt of court.
Enjoy your indefinite detention.
>>72424812
And they got a warrant to get into his drive, and they can try all they want, they DON'T have a warrant to violate constitutional rights.
>>72424928
>can't tell if extremely stupid or just a willful cuck
>>72423553
But the difference is that one scheme is designed to wipe when tampered with where as one which destroys evidence whe given a specific password shows your intent to delete the data to hinder law enforcemet. That has been used in court before, people who had started scrubbing drives when raided were done for destrucrion of evidence.
Scrubbing is very slow it requires writing random data in place of the old data which limits it to no faster than the drive speed. If i were to scrub a single of my WD green 4tb drives thats like 7 hours.
>>72424928
Sure, they can search for it.
But they shouldn't be allowed to force you to help them.
>>72424937
>If the document, record or tangible object is evidence of a crime, yes.
Doesn't say so.
Also, you can never know what is or isn't evidence in a possible investigation.
Face it, the law is unjust, and enables the government to prosecute whoever they want.
>As I've said before, don't accidentally create locked spaces you can't get into which look like they contain evidence of a felony.
You shouldn't be required to make sure you don't accidently look suspicious and then need to prove your innocence.
That you are required to in the US shows that the system is unjust.
>>72424945
>possible investigation
>pedo's encrypted pedo files
>>72424812
>police get a warrent for CP
>they seize your drive
>they don't find it
>the end?
No. You get jailed because you refused to actively cooperate with the people trying to put you in prison. Welcome to the Anglosphere.
>>72425004
Something a newfag like you shouldn't bother to understand yet.
>>72424792
Point me to a single child he was looking at that was violated.
You can't.
Loli doesn't involve real children and he shouldn't go to jail for it.
>>72425023
>where is the evidence
He is hiding it in a very good spot that he only has the keys to.
>>72424969
>>72425007
I think pedos are scum m8s but the govt has to follow the law.
>>72423587
>I'm refusing to open my barricaded door, I'm not actively stopping the cops from entering.
>the judge laughs out loud.
>>72425062
The flags don't lie, for the most part.
>>72424773
Because no one involved in this case is making any such claims. You invented a magical different set of facts to try to simulate the results of this case but where you would be right because in the actual case this guy is obviously guilty, isn't denying he encrypted the drives, and there is additional evidence indicating his guilt.
I'm not arguing your delusional fantasies. Argue facts and claims actually made, or go back to sucking somali cock.
>>72424152
Are you retarded?
>pedo general
>no pictures of lolis
Have cute afghan lolis
>>72425125
I am not retarded. Are you retarded?
>>72425113
And guess what, at that point the cops could break down the door or walls, but I'm still against forcing someone to act against their own interests in the investigation by unlocking the door.
>>72425096
If they can through some other means, then they should use that as evidence in a trial.
Maybe this is all an elaborate dance in order to stop them having to reveal their method(s) that led them to him in the first place.
>>72425070
>Face it, the law is unjust, and enables the government to prosecute whoever they want.
Well, no, first they would need enough evidence to establish probable cause for a warrant and then the person would have to not comply with the warrant and then they would have to lose every appeal that they didn't comply with the warrant for a valid reason and all of this would be contingent on the original case for which the probable cause led to the warrant doesn't fall apart.
Dipshit.
>someone could be wrongfully convicted of something
>this means the law is unjust and should be off the books
People get wrongfully convicted for murder.
>>72425096
Did it say anywhere that this man was downloading drawn images?
>>72424900
>You only seem to know the America you see online and on TV. Disposition varies greatly across the US, from one extreme to the next.
I've been to the US on multiple occasions. Compared to what I'm used to, Americans are very loyal towards authority and the government...
>That article
>Implying that's common
Ok.
>>72425087
Go suck a dick you unwhite piece of garbage trash in the shithole of europe.
>>72425143
The better the janitors and mods wake up and get their feelings hurt the better, I need to go fap(to adult females over the age of 16 with large breasts) and eat.
>>72424969
No.
I'm not a pedophile, nor do I sympathize with them.
If there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate a crime has been committed then he should rot away in jail for having committed it.
If there isn't, well that's just a failure on the part of law enforcement, and in no way does it justify forgoing his constitutional rights.
The constitutional rights are important, because if you can just circumvent them with a good excuse, then they're not rights at all.
And you'll be the one complaining when they circumvent the 1st and 2nd or any others.
Constitution always takes priority over scum. Innocent until proven guilty. These are foundational principles. This is literally no different from forcing OJ Simpson to sit in jail until he testifies against himself.
>>72424476
Is definitely should, but apparently the state has gotten around that through mental gymnastics and with the full unquestioning support of statists here.
>>72425198
Can you prove anywhere he possesses any images?
>>72425072
So what you're saying is that encryption is illegal?
>>72425216
I don't know what you just said to me
The courts can compel you to decrypt a hard drive or open a safe, and to not comply is contempt, this is the case in the vast majority of countries.
The contempt charge is usually the wayyyy lesser evil to opening it and getting charged with whatever they find.
>>72425215
Shut up, western cuck.
>>72424969
This has nothing to do with pedo. See the large picture.
If you agree with this law this could happen.
I break into your house when you're at work, and encrypt your harddrive. I'm someone that has been at your house at a party or the like, secretly i dislike you.
I then go to the police claiming i saw [pedo/terrorism/proof of illegal activity] on your computer. Now you'll rot in prison forever.
>>72425123
Again you resort to ad-hominems.
What YOU fail to understand is that the core facts in this case, namely:
Single witness claiming illegal documents exists on a computer that the witness itself could have encrypted.
Can be applied to other cases. Now explain what I'm getting wrong like an adult.
>>72425097
That should be his right...
>>72425198
Does it say that he wasn't?
>>72425066
>But the difference is that one scheme is designed to wipe when tampered with where as one which destroys evidence whe given a specific password shows your intent to delete the data to hinder law enforcemet. That has been used in court before, people who had started scrubbing drives when raided were done for destrucrion of evidence.
It also hinders hackers and thieves who are interested in stealing personal information.
There is no distinction until an investigation has actually begun, so there is no crime in deploying such technology which already exists and is currently deployed today.
>Scrubbing is very slow it requires writing random data in place of the old data which limits it to no faster than the drive speed. If i were to scrub a single of my WD green 4tb drives thats like 7 hours.
That's scrubbing the whole drive. There is no evidence scrubbing with zeros is any less effective than random writes.
Furthermore, there is no way or evidence to suggest a partially scrubbed encrypted drive can be recovered. Even a slight amount of overwriting will destroy the entire contents. It's corrupted, which means it's lost because there is no way to decrypt the volume or drive anymore, even with the correct key.
>>72424792
>He 100% has the images
You seem pretty confident so where is the proofs?
>we know you have the images so we're keeping you in jail until you provide us with the images that we can use to keep you in jail
Bootlicking scum.
>>72425216
>16
nice federal crime there m8.
I'm honestly pretty libertarian leaning here too and I see no reason that if the police can make a compelling case that you're hiding evidence in a laptop or whatever that they shouldn't be able to
compel you to open it.
>>72425123
If he's so obviously guilty, they don't need the evidence, and can just go to trial.
That they don't prosecute, but insist hold him for months to get the evidence, shows me that they don't have the evidence needed to establish guilt, hence your assumption is wrong.
>>72425196
>Well, no, first they would need enough evidence to establish probable cause for a warrant
That's easy. Just watch them throw something away. Open an investigation that leads nowhere but involves what they threw away. Guilty.
>People get wrongfully convicted for murder.
... when they didn't actually do it. As in, they didn't violate the law.
But everyone violates the law we're talking about. All the time. We're altering documents right now. Possibly there's an investigation against 4chan going on. In that case, you're altering documents involved with an investigation. Guilty.
>>72424699
>tfw people will lynch you because you fapped to some loli but you can get away with fucking boipussy by being a priest
great times
>>72422259
If you say you know but won't tell then you can be held in jail. If you claim to have forgotten the passwords and the police can't prove otherwise then you're fine.
>>72425287
I cannot encourage your actions as this would be a violation of the rules, and I would never break the rules, whether they be set in stone or arbitrarily defined by some faggot's feelings.
>>72425290
>the vast majority of countries
lies.
>>72425290
>The courts can compel you to decrypt a hard drive or open a safe, and to not comply is contempt, this is the case in the vast majority of countries.
And when you say 'the vast majority of countries', you just mean the Angloshere and the third world, right?
>The contempt charge is usually the wayyyy lesser evil to opening it and getting charged with whatever they find.
>Jailed indefinitely
>Lesser evil
I don't think I'm ever going to visit any Anglo country ever again.
>>72422832
Keep fighting the good fight, friend. Some retards on here are still incredibly reactionary blue pill cuckservatives.
>>72424692
>Max sentence
>6 months and $1000 fine
>Been in jail 7 months already
/thread
>>72422259
Fuck the cops. They will have to let him go soon. Can't hold forever and contempt should not apply. Maybe the guy CAN'T unlock the phones. The life in jail has scrambled his mind.
>>72425359
If they can make such a case then the evidence should be compelling enough for a conviction.
It clearly isn't.
>>72425348
So it's legal for me to fuck a 16 year old, with my penis in her vagina, but looking at a nude photo of a 16 year old is illegal?
>>72424792
>He 100% has the images
Then use the evidence that he 100% has the images to convict him you mouthbreather.
>>72425144
Do you understand what a warrant is right? A lawful document stating the right to search for evidence and/or to arrest based on evidence already found.
>I'm not a pedophile, I just think the law is unfair.
Sure, sure...
>>72425359
>and I see no reason that if the police can make a compelling case that you're hiding evidence in a laptop or whatever that they shouldn't be able to compel you to open it.
The reason is that you should never, under any circumstances, be forced to aid an investigation against you.
The second reason is that a "compelling case" doesn't constitute perfect proof, and that passwords can be forgotten, leading to indefinite punishment without trial.
The third reason is the abuse potential. If they can plant an encrypted file on your drives, they can show a compelling case, and then keep you forever.
>>72425384
Hmph, actually i think posting pictures of lolis goes unpunished on /pol/. Maybe it's because janis here are all pedophiles, or maybe /pol/ really is a containment board that no one wants to moderate.
>>72425024
In your country, he'd automatically be guilty of crime for not decrypting the files. You have no argument. Fuck off. Here the government actually has to have some proof that the files are in there.
>>72425053
Same for you. Fuck off. He'd be automatically forced to comply and decrypt the files in Canada.
>>72425085
We're the only anglophone country where he can actually fight the government compelling him to decrypt it. Some people have won the cases, some have lost.
>>72425472
The law is fair, the violation of the law is unfair, you stupid leaf.
>>72425359
Sounds like the absolute opposite of libertarian to me.
>>72425451
It's legal in many U.S. States for you to drink alcohol in your house at 18, but illegal in all States for you to buy it from a store or in a bar/club until you're 21.
>>72425503
>We're the only anglophone country where he can actually fight the government compelling him to decrypt it.
>We're the least shit, that counts for something, right?
>>72425574
Remember it's a crime to salute a certain way in Deutschland
>>72425293
You're still making up shit that no involved is claiming. He's not denying owning the drives, or having encrypted the drives. There is literally nothing else to discuss.
My references to your addiction to somali cock have as much to do with this case as your fantasy about him being framed.
>>72425307
>It should be a pedophiles right to hide his images of actual children. As long as he hides it well that is okay in my book. t. pedophile
>>72425342
Listen dipshit, this is the last time I'm going to say this because none of you can seem to refute it.
IF HE DOESN'T HAVE THE IMAGES. WHY IS HE MAKING SUCH A FUSS ABOUT HANDING OVER SOME PASSWORDS
Clearly this is a man without sin, lets just ignore his own family pointing fingers at him, and ignore the fact that his IP was traced back to his computer. Let's ignore all that.
/pol/ is giving the black argument.
>"yo if they can't see shit he aint do it yo."
/pol/ is saying HE DINDU NUFFIN because pedo posters are horrified that the law is being so radical with this man because they know they could be next.
Frankly I think it's hilarious. Pedos deserve the rope
>>72425503
>In your country, he'd automatically be guilty of crime for not decrypting the files. You have no argument. Fuck off. Here the government actually has to have some proof that the files are in there.
My country doesn't have constitutional rights, fatty that's why. If you don't like the 5th Amendment you can go back to Mexico.
>>72423836
Dude, you're fighting a battle of moral with a guy from a country that will lock up its women for fighting off rapists too hard and old people for capping nigs for breaking into there house. Really expect them to see what's wrong here?
>>72425436
It is literally the exact same logic as a search warrant. The standard of proof for a search warrant is lower than the standard of proof to convict somebody for possessing child pornography.
If the police have a warrant to search, and you manage to bar them from searching somehow, that's contempt. If you do the same with a safe, and admit you can unlock the safe, that's contempt. If you do the same with a encrypted drive, despite admitting to being able to decrypt it, that's contempt.
The way I see it the standard of evidence should be the same as that used for a warrant. You knee jerking reactionary fucks you have no problems with warrants just have a problem with this entirely similar concept because MUH RIGHTS.
Good pedos should have no rights
I hope he gets raped and murdered in prison
>m m muh freedumbs to rape kids!!!
>>72425639
This. Do not respond to non-American posters. This is an American issue, not some Islamic issue.
>>72425451
Very extremely illegal. Fed cutoff is 18 and they're the internet police.
>>72425626
Because the hard drive is full of loli pics and he doesn't want to go to prison for that.
>>72425654
>If the police have a warrant to search, and you manage to bar them from searching somehow, that's contempt. If you do the same with a safe, and admit you can unlock the safe, that's contempt. If you do the same with a encrypted drive, despite admitting to being able to decrypt it, that's contempt.
And it should not be.
If they can't get in, that's their problem, not yours. So long as you don't actively hinder them - say, by hiding in there with a gun - it's their problem, not yours.
>>72425503
>We're the only anglophone country where he can actually fight the government compelling him to decrypt it. Some people have won the cases, some have lost.
The fact that you can even be compelled to help convict yourself is insane.
>>72425654
>that's contempt
Well damn skippy...
What's the standard sentence for contempt of court?
Ah! That's not what you're after, is it?
You guys... CP shouldn't be illegal anyways, nor is (consensual) sex with children.
Who's with me?
>we have a warrant for information on your encrypted hard drives
>OY vey goyim what do you mean 5th amendment?
>I HAVE A WARRANT
Even though it's a password ITS STILL INCRIMINATING THE GUY YOU AUTISTS
>>72425549
>>72425724
Gotta love the land of the free sometimes.
>>72425625
More ad hominems. No wonder pols going to shit.
Read the OP. There is no source claiming that he said he knows how to decrypt them.
>You're still making up shit that no involved is claiming.
>>72424969
>All public defendants that accept pedophile cases are now pedophiles too
>All juries that find accused pedophiles innocent when presented with no evidence are now pedophiles too
God, our sex offender registry is going to rapidly get out of hand.
>>72425766
Die you freak
>>72425654
The popo are free to search. He isn't barring anything.
It's not his fault the are all idiots incapable of cracking a hard drive.
>>72425626
>>It should be a pedophiles right to hide his images of actual children. As long as he hides it well that is okay in my book. t. pedophile
>I don't need rights, pls fuck me and my brethren in the ass arbitrarily
>t. totalitarian imbecile
>>72423807
Yes , it doesn't work that way though.
>>72425738
You don't know its full of drawn images. It could have real children on it.
>inb4 prove it
can't prove it's either or until he coughs up the real passwords. All we know is that he got backtraced by the internet police and is hiding evidence
>>72425778
No it isnt, if I have a warrant for your house, and you have illegal things in your house you are legally bound to open that door
>>72425766
Pr-pubescent children cannot mate, so they shouldn't be allowed to have sex.
Age of consent should be 14, as most all men and women can ovulate and produce sperm by 14.
>>72425457
You do understand what a constitution is right? It's a thing that prevents otherwise lawful documents from having power.
>>72425888
>US
>rights
>>72423833
Had a .45 stolen from me , it's in ny name , i guarantee i get linked to a crime i did not commit. Murrica fuck yeah
>>72425639
>Dude, you're fighting a battle of moral
Kek. Your morals are shit.
>with a guy from a country that will lock up its women for fighting off rapists too hard and old people for capping nigs for breaking into there house.
Nice memes. Too bad that's all they are.
>Really expect them to see what's wrong here?
The fact that, apparantly, you can be forced to help convict yourself in a criminal case in the US, like some Soviet-tier kangaroo court.
>>72425880
So the only crime he is apparently guilty of is contempt of court.
Do they usually hand out indefinite sentences for that?
>>72425888
There's a fucking difference between a house and A FUCKING HARD DRIVE
>>72425880
I think you have illegal material in a hidden partition on your hard drive. Now hand over the decryption key or else face indefinite jailtime.
>>72425890
>cannot mate
So you're against any sex or relationship that don't result in procreation? Fanatic.
NEW THREAD FOR WHEN THIS ONE BUMPS OFF
>>72425896
>>72425896
>>72425896
>>72425896
>>72425364
We have investigations, warrants, all sorts of court proceedings, and legal fun. They had enough evidence to get a search warrant. They had enough evidence to get a federal court order.
They prosecutor isn't under any obligation to file charges while a subject of his investigation is obstructing justice and defying a court order.
The federal court of appeals precedents indicate that he'll win. If they don't crack the drives first, or if the guy doesn't give up, it might go to the supreme court, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Most recent opinion rejecting an appeal on a decryption case was that the person should comply with the court order, and then appeal the case. It's to do with courts of appeal not liking to accept cases that are not final.
I could explain more in-depth, or you could spend five minutes on ars technica reading about these cases yourself.
>>72425903
They have a warrant. Its LEGAL
>>72425952
B-but law-abiding gun owners have nothing to fear from mandatory firearm registration!
>>72425941
Nice argument
>>72425965
sure thing officer.
now I'm absolved and out of jail, damn that was easy. I guess not committing crime pays off :)
>>72423946
It is though .
>>72425999
so... you don't understand what a constitution is then? so you are in fact, a retard then?
>>72425964
Not if I have a warrant you FAT FUCK
>>72425999
So he's guilty of being found in contempt of court.
There you go. Can we put this stupid trial to rest?
>>72425880
> could
> no evidence
> forgetting passwords is illegal
right.
>>72425888
>you are legally bound to open that door
Except you're not. You just cannot prevent the police from trying to open it... Not your problem if they're too retarded to bash it in, or in this case: Crack the password.
Do you think they increase your sentence if they search your house while you're not there to open the door for them?
>>72425992
>They prosecutor isn't under any obligation to file charges while a subject of his investigation is obstructing justice and defying a court order.
The whole point is that said court order is unjust. He should not be required to do anything related to an investigation against him. Nothing whatsoever. Getting in is their problem. He should have the right to remain silent, not do anything, and if they can't gather enough evidence without his aid, they don't have enough and that's that.
>Most recent opinion rejecting an appeal on a decryption case was that the person should comply with the court order, and then appeal the case.
In other words, bend over, and hope your ass recovers later.
>>72426033
Nope, you didn't show me the hidden partition I'm after. Oh well, back in the cell for you.
>>72425888
>and you have illegal things in your house
So if I have nothing illegal I don't have to open the door? You aren't making a good argument.
>>72426055
Do you know that a warrant is a LEGAL form of documentation to serve justice when evidence has been found of illegal activity.
So no, you are retarded
>>72426033
That was a fake password.
Hand over the real one.
>>72426149
No, I'm saying the warrant is ALL they need to arrest you and search you.
>>72426153
So it's ok to infringe upon constitutional rights as long as some fat fuck signs a warrant saying you can? Are you clinically retarded?
>>72426153
Well, looks like he's in contempt of court then.
Bummer.
You know there's a maximum sentence for that?
>>72426149
You don't.
The can kick down the door though.
>>72424590
U.S. v Doe (In re: Grand Jury Subpoena Duces Tecum Dated March 25, 2011)
Because I have.
>San Francisco - A federal appeals court has found a Florida man's constitutional rights were violated when he was imprisoned for refusing to decrypt data on several devices. This is the first time an appellate court has ruled the 5th Amendment protects against forced decryption – a major victory for constitutional rights in the digital age.
>In this case, titled United States v. Doe, FBI agents seized two laptops and five external hard drives from a man they were investigating but were unable to access encrypted data they believed was stored on the devices via an encryption program called TrueCrypt. When a grand jury ordered the man to produce the unencrypted contents of the drives, he invoked his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination and refused to do so. The court held him in contempt and sent him to jail.
"The government's attempt to force this man to decrypt his data put him in the Catch-22 the 5th Amendment was designed to prevent – having to choose between self-incrimination or risking contempt of court," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Marcia Hofmann. "We're pleased the appeals court recognized the important constitutional issues at stake here, and we hope this ruling will discourage the government from using abusive grand jury subpoenas to try to expose data people choose to protect with encryption."
>>72426209
And if their search turns up no evidence, you should be released, right? Sounds about right to me.
>>72426220
You literally have no actual argument, only fallacies. The warrant was a deterrent to protect citizens from Rouge cops you autist
>>72426293
Yep so let em search his hard drive
>>72426033
Nah, I'm 100% certain that you have illegal material tucked away, bucko. Gonna take you to jail where you'll have all the time in the world to dig it up for me :^)
>>72422580
T. Allahu akbar
>>72426302
Kids like you being the future of this country is the reason I'm in the process of leaving it.
>>72425749
Again, that's where this stops being muh feels and starts being a complex legal issue, ruled on half a dozen times since 2000.
The technological box that cannot be opened is a real bitch.
Here the current standard is; If the government has evidence to support that the files exist and are in the box, you have to open the box. Basically, they need a witness who has seen the files (2006, and this case), or they need you admitting the files exist (2012). There's at least once case where the government lacked a witness, and there technician could not confirm that the encrypted drive wasn't in fact blank (TrueCrypt). That case was thrown out.
These cases have been extremely rare, and people have only been compelled when there was additional evidence indicating that they were hiding evidence.
This is a stupidly complex issue.
>>72426363
Good, we don't want felons here.
>>72426337
They have his hard drive.
Turns out all that exists there is a bunch of corrupted data and they need a magic word to make evidence out of it.
>>72426337
They have it right?
They should hurry up and search it.
>>72426137
The court of appeals doesn't like ruling on non-final cases. It's just a cheap ploy to delay a case. There's a process for appeals. You cannot generally appeal a ruling in an on-going case.
>>72416600
>>72422259
>all these fucking boot-lickers in these threads
God damn, you know I hate pedos more than about anyone, but holy shit we don't throw people's fucking rights out the window
>>72426425
Oh, so would it be wrong to search that hard drive because it is the center of where the files are believed to be held? Because they do have a LEGAL WARRANT for it
>>72426563
>Oh, so would it be wrong to search that hard drive
They can search it all they want.
If they don't find evidence, then it's not the responsibility of the man being charged to produce incriminating evidence against himself.
>>72426527
Still, this means giving up your rights, and hoping that the later court is on your side.
It's a huge risk that you shouldn't have to take.
>>72426253
Great! You produced the ONE CASE I've referenced over and over again.
Lacking a witness, or any evidence that the files even existed, they threw the case out.
>Two rulings this week helped to clarify the circumstances under which a defendant can be compelled to reveal the contents of an encrypted hard drive. On Wednesday, the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals let stand a judge's ruling in a Colorado case that the defendant in a mortgage fraud case could be compelled to produce the contents of her encrypted laptop. But on Thursday, the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals overturned a Florida contempt of court charge against a suspect in a child pornography case who refused to decrypt the encrypted contents of several hard drives.
>While the two rulings reach opposite results, they don't necessarily contradict each other. The results turned on how much the government knew about the contents of the encrypted drives. In previous cases, the courts have held that when the government already knows of the existence of specific incriminating files, compelling a suspect to produce them does not violate the Fifth Amendment's rule against self-incrimination. On the other hand, if the government merely suspects that an encrypted hard drive contains some incriminating documents, but lacks independent evidence for the existence of specific documents, then the owner of the hard drive is entitled to invoke the Fifth Amendment.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/appeals-court-fifth-amendment-protections-can-apply-to-encrypted-hard-drives/
I linked it in my first post in this thread, shithead.
>>72423833
>hey, we know you own this particular model gun
you mean:
>hey, someone said you own this particular model gun
rite?
>>72425326
But if you specifically gave law enforcement a passwors which deliberately triggerd scrubbing rather than decrypting you would indeed be done for destrucrion of evidence. Moot point though because law enforcement clone all drives before handling them so they have backups anyway. It wouldnt help you once you and your kit was in their possesion.
Doeant matter if you scrub with 0's (zero write) or write random data, generating pseudo random data isnt the bottleneck in scrubbing its the write speed of the media so with large and slow drives you cannot scrub quickly. Even with ssds that are faster actually erasing an entire cell is slow because of the internal tech used in those drives.
Lastly thats wrong about encrypted destruction, most block ciphers allow destruction of data for some areas on an encrypted container but for the vast amount of data can still be read. Only if the encrypted header is destroyed is the whole container gone but that can be rebuilt providing you have the encryption keys or the original password.
>>72426740
This even weaker case applies of course as well, but even a stronger case (we know) still shouldn't incriminate your rights.
>>72426682
Then we'll just have to wait until the Supreme Court settles the issue, you faggot bootlicker :^)
>>72426885
Just like they've refused to do since 2000. No one's getting in front of the Supreme Court without opening up them files first.
Not that any of this really matters.
The simulacrum of digital information is such a strong meme to people who don't understand how computers work that a highly compressed tape recording of a theater screen is considered a "copy" of a major motion picture, when in fact the data itself couldn't be any more different and the only way it could possibly resemble what it's supposed to be a "copy" of is by running it through a codec.
Once again, our legislators and representatives are demonstrating that they are operating within the realm of social sorcery (meme magic), and they took a detour from objectivity several decades ago. It's like they legitimately believe that a computer virus is a little organism going around eating your files.
>>72422486
>Guilty till proven innocent
![_89483808_hard-drive[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZT2Yw1t.jpg "89483808 hard-drive[1]")
