"A man has been held in prison for seven months after failing to decrypt two hard drives that investigators suspect contain indecent images of children.
A court order says the man will remain jailed "until such time that he fully complies" with an order to unlock the password-protected devices"
>be American
>refuse to give police all of your passwords
>be jailed indefinitely until you do
L
O
L
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36159146
>>72416600
that's not even the funniest part...
the funniest part is, they brought the court case not against the man, but against the DEVICES.
>>72416708
What? How do you even sue a hard drive?
>>72416806
right click the icon and safely remove device
Well this is interesting
>>72416806
THAT is the proper question, Gerry.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160428/07395434297/so-much-fifth-amendment-man-jailed-seven-months-not-turning-over-password.shtml
my country is going downhill fast.
>>72416600
>land of the free
>>72416708
Jail the devices then.
>>72416600
What kind of things do you think are really on the hard drive?
>>72416600
>>72416905
Now how did this even escalate to here? Surely there's some probable cause to believe there's cheese pizza, aside from refusing to unlock it.
>>72416600
Good.
This "rights" meme shit needs to die anyway.
Along with that fucking stupid "constitution" stuff, it is literally a joke that has been run into the ground far too many times
>>72417074
Why do you think it matters?
>>72417074
Do you really have to ask
>>72417074
highly valued rare pepes taken from Palmyra
>>72417067
you'd think, right?
the truth is out government is now routinely ignoring the rules whenever it feel like it. i have no sympathy for cops, and even less for nonces or child predators, but we have a Constitution for a reason.
either we follow it, or we don't even have a Constitution.
>United States of America v. Apple MacPro Computer, et al
We slipped into an alt dimension, m8s. We're living in a universe written by the Onion.
>>72417074
Doesn't matter. You guys have the right to not self incriminate and any attempt to chip away at that should result in heavy punishments towards the officials involved. No matter even if the guy is a baby eating serial killing pedophile.
>>72417124
>"Doe has not been charged, yet he's in prison. Backing up the government's assertions for holding him in contempt are two dubious pieces of hearsay. One is from his estranged sister, who claims to have seen child porn on Doe's computer, but can't actually say whether it was located on the devices the government is seeking to have decrypted. The other is from some sort of law enforcement encryption whisperer, who can apparently see things in the scrambled bits.
The government’s second witness was Detective Christopher Tankelewicz, a forensic examiner with the Delaware County District Attorney’s Office. He testified only that it was his “best guess” child pornography would be found on the hard drives."
>>72417134
KYS bambinorino
>>72417124
You dont drag someone to court and say "we dont have evidence, but the evidence is on those encrypted devices. So unless you give us your data, you are guilty"
Innocent until proven guilty, it doesnt matte what's on the drives.
>>72416600
Encrypt your drives, they said. It will save you bro, they said.
>>72416708
>>72416905
Yes..? You've been suing objects for ages, it's nothing new and it's nothing "funny".
It's how your legal system works and it results in the person being responsible having to uphold everything.
It's a shame what they did just because it's encrypted though, that's Britain tier shit right there.
>>72416905
We should conquer some diamond mine in africa and just make our own country.
>>72417124
>Backing up the government's assertions for holding him in contempt are two dubious pieces of hearsay. One is from his estranged sister, who claims to have seen child porn on Doe's computer, but can't actually say whether it was located on the devices the government is seeking to have decrypted. The other is from some sort of law enforcement encryption whisperer, who can apparently see things in the scrambled bits.
This is insanity. they don't have enough evidence for a trial, so they throw him in jail until he provides them with it.
What if i plant a decrypted HDD in someones home and then make an anonymous tip to the police? Will that someone just vanish forever, since he does not know the password?
If it is one thing about this country that pisses me off is how often the police will hold you before trial. I have heard of people waiting up to a solid year before they saw a judge. During that year they rotted in jail.
In the US kiddie porn and sex offenders registry is a death sentence pretty much, it's better to sit 10 years in jail.
>>72416600
That's hilarious
How is that even legally allowed?
What law are they using to justify this?
>mfw
>>72417397
If that person is sentenced to one year in prison after that, does he get to walk right out or does he go back for another year?
>>72417252
Finns: more American than most Americans
>>72417505
In my state at least I know they count your jail time towards your sentence
>>72417139
There has to be something interesting if they want it that bad right?
>>72417177
Possible.
>>72417423
contempt of court, it is all there in the article brah
>>72417505
Wikipedia states: "In criminal law, "time served" describes a sentence where the defendant is credited immediately after the guilty verdict with the time spent in remand awaiting trial. The time is usually subtracted from the sentence, with only the balance being served after the verdict."
Try googeling shit. It's fun.
>>72417067
The man is an accomplice
>>72417296
I'm serious thought.
All the "constitution" has done (not only the American one) is to diminish the power of the state allowing for all kinds of instability and degeneracy.
Things were better under either a king or a very strict noble elite that did not allow any chucklefuck from the masses in thus allowing a more efficient ruling.
Now that the power is finally being concentrated again we can drop the literal meme of "rights" that has done nothing but be a gigantic nation-wrecker
>>72417177
Dubs speak truth
Please tell me this is fake.
Poor Americans, man.
>>72417505
I believe he would never go to jail after that. I've read alot of news articles where people's time in jail during their trials and whatnot are taken off of their final prison time.
>>72417397
In Finland they can keep you in jail for months with no charges for no other reason than if they think you MAY impede an investigation of crime you aren't even a suspect of.
>>72417631
>reading articles
Haha nerd
>>72417684
Do your police stations also have "Possible Future Crime" divisions?
>>72417508
Just jelly of the things you got right in your legal system
>>72417213
"Government" is short for "Govern The Mentality" goy
>He has not been charged, yet he's in prison.
No seriously, this has to be satire.
>>72417577
And if the person is found not guilty, do they get money?
>after declining to testify was held in contempt of court and jailed.
You have a right to not suffer warrantless search and seizure, but the flipside of that is obstructing a warranted search or seizure becomes grounds for getting your ass thrown in jail.
>>72417651
>we can drop the literal meme of "rights" that has done nothing but be a gigantic nation-wrecker
yes, the periods of the most explosive growth in human history were all nothing but a meme
fuck off and build the wall pedro
>>72417842
lol
>>72417773
....basically yes as buying pottery and irrigation systems from a gareening shop can be considered an attempted grow operation. People have gotten in trouble for that...people who tried to grow fucking chili and tomatoes in their houses.
>>72417252
This, in australian law we are protected against admissions made against our own interest, is this not so in the land of the free?
>>72417797
This. Any decent lawyer would have a field day with this
>>72417842
You probably can sue yeah
>>72417397
>I have heard of people waiting up to a solid year before they saw a judge. During that year they rotted in jail.
>H. Beatty Chadwick (b. 1936) is the American record holder for the longest time being held in civil contempt of court. In 1995, a judge ruled that Chadwick hid millions of U.S. dollars in overseas bank accounts so that he would not have to pay the sums to his ex-wife during their divorce. He was incarcerated until such time as he could present $2.5 million to the Delaware County Court. Chadwick maintains that the money was lost in a business transaction and therefore he cannot surrender money he does not possess. Although never charged with a crime, H. Beatty Chadwick spent fourteen years of his life in prison.
>On July 10, 2009, Chadwick was ordered released from prison by Delaware County Judge Joseph Cronin, who determined his continued incarceration had lost its coercive effect and would not result in him surrendering the money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Beatty_Chadwick
>>72417842
Some states offer (small) payouts for wrongful convictions but none do what you're talking about to my knowledge short of a lawsuit in the presence of demonstrable wrongdoing.
>>72417660
Wouldn't they just beat you until you give up the passwords in Mexico?
>>72417766
stupid phoneposter, I should have not replied and let you wallow in your ignorance instead
>Be American
>forget password
>get jailed for life
>>72416708
BAN ASSAULT HARD DRIVES
>>72417899
How is that funny?
If someone is jailed for a year awaiting his trial and is found innocent in the end, it's only fair that he'd get a year worth of salary.
>>72417922
He's not being asked to testify to the content of the harddrive. He's being asked to unlock the harddrive so the cops can see the content.
Do you have the right to refuse to comply with search warrants down there?
>>72417922
In theory, yes, in practice not always. Still better than Britain though.
The land of the free and the home of the brave! So where's the freedom and bravery?
>Investigators can install cameras to record suspect's keyboard to decrypt a device
Holy kek
>>72417335
>What if i plant a decrypted HDD in someones home and then make an anonymous tip to the police? Will that someone just vanish forever, since he does not know the password?
That's actually a very good question.
>>72417923
It's called contempt of court.
He hasn't been charged with possessing child porn but contempt of court is an indefinite sentence until you stop doing whatever is putting you in contempt or what you are doing stops being relevant (for instance refusing to cooperate in a case being a moot point if the suspect dies/charges are dropped)
does some fa/g/ know the OS and encryp software?, this is not truecrypt. Sauce please
>>72417954
Can sue and can get a settlement/win aren't the same thing.
>>72417985
He's not jailed for life.
He's just jailed until the state obtains the software necessary to crack his shit.
Then he's jailed for the rest of his life on child porn.
>>72417303
>Innocent until proven guilty
You tell that to literally anyone here who works with the law in any form and you'll get a nice chuckle out of them, guaranteed.
>>72417335
leave it to us to be the most evil and effective at the same time.
good one kamerad.
>>72417997
I don't know about hardrives, but not letting police into your house is different to not telling police your password. They can seize the hard drive but you are under no obligation to supply them with information, sinply an obligation not to supply them with false information.
>>72417876
there is no proof he has the password, that is hearsay on their part and assumption of knowledge
>>72417888
Damn son you really showed me with those trips.
Lolno, fuck off burger, you are a cancer upon the earth, your country was born and exploded because it told nigs and plebs to fuck off and be glad they work, now you're giving rights left right and center and you are in decline, same with europe, gay rights, women rights, worker rights, trans rights, minority rights, otherkin rights, the works.
Meanwhile China and Russia don't give "rights" to their citizens and they are growing, notice a correlation there burgerclap?
>>72418092
this picture is so horrifying man.
>>72418123
Can you do that? Most modern encryptions are pratically impossible to crack, it might take 70 years or something for a 512bit encyprtion even with thousands of computers working together.
>>72418075
Isn't it basically a case of forcing a man to testify against himself? He isn't obliged to do that shit.
>>72418123
>software necessary to crack his shit.
god you are so dumb
>>72418092
GNU+Arch
>>72418158
>but not letting police into your house is different to not telling police your password
No, not it is not. Either scenario is obstructing a search. Whether or not you're doing it by not providing the cops with the means to get through your security system on your house or your hard drive, it's the same refusing to comply with a warrant.
>>72418123
If he forgot his password, He'll be jailed for life for not telling them his password.
Literally jailed for forgetting you password.
>>72418208
not even close. try all the computing power on earth until the heat death of the universe
>>72417074
Access to the world meme database
>>72418185
>i know nothing about history
i expected no less from a knockoff spic
build wall and pay denbts you fucking scum
>>72417958
So an innocent guy, who not only did no wrong-doing, no crime, no nothing, who wasn't even CHARGED with a crime - spends 14 YEARS of his life in Jail.....BECAUSE some random whore told that he has more money than she got, when in reality bitch can't do basic math, let alone economy.....
You know, I'm not even visiting U.S. anymore, fuck this.
It's scary how they just piss all over law and civil rights now, they know they can get away with it. The fact is a cop can kick your door down without a warrant, pepper spray you in the face, fuck your missus, and if they all cover each other's backs there's fuck all you can do about it. They've built up obscene amounts of power. They have all the money, all the best weapons, and thousands of agents all prepared to follow orders and enforce policy no matter what it is.
>>72417876
Underrated post.
No clue why people have trouble understanding this. An encrypted drive or file is a locked room. If the police have a warrant to get in, and you prevent them from doing so, you're going to jail.
>>72416600
>Show me the inside of your house we have suspicion of illegal activities
>No
>We have a legal order to search your house open up
>No
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
>>72418269
I thought your constitution protected you from being forced to incriminate yourself?
>>72418313
m8 you're so blind
>>72418208
>Can you do that?
Jail someone indefinitely? Fuck yeah we can.
Think of this type of contempt as an ongoing crime for which you serve an ongoing sentence.
>>72418214
>Isn't it basically a case of forcing a man to testify against himself?
He's not being asked to describe the contents of the hard drive on the record, merely provide a key. The key can't be used against him in a court of law.
https://youtu.be/yndfqN1VKhY
it is known
>>72418380
Not if you are deliberately hiding critical evidence to the case.
>>72418313
Why do you think everyone here is sucking Muslim coco?
Because they don't give a fuck about rights! That's why they are successful!
Meanwhile Europe gave rights to everyone and it's getting invaded, by who? By Muslims, that don't care about "rights"
>>72417777
Quads of truth
>>72418389
not at all
shitalians are just knockoff spics like i said
>>72418429
They didn't prove that he's hiding it.
>>72418406
What evidence is there that he has this key? What proof do they have he set the password, or that he remembers them if he did?
>>72418456
It's always the Amerifats that won't shut up about race. Obese stormweenies
>>72418429
The cops don't know what's inside, all they have is speculation. No proofs of illegal stuff.
>>72418282
Yep.
>>72418380
>I thought your constitution protected you from being forced to incriminate yourself?
Yes, it doesn't protect us from reasonable and warranted searches though.
Again, he's not in jail for not testifying against himself. He's in jail for not unlocking his shit.
Hey if you set the hard drive so that it deletes or "destroys" all the data if you give wrong password . And you make the cops do just that what will they do to you then? Is it just some destruction of evidence charge or something? surely less of a sentence than undefined contempt jailing. People should try that or keep a usb drive with corrupted data as a fake key for the encryption. Then blame the cops for mishandling it and there for fucking up evidence themselves.
Should just say you forgot the passwords.
>>72416846
underrated
>>72418360
Except he is not preventing them from doing so you fucking retard. He could be dead and they still couldn't get into his hard drive. You dont have to HELP them get into a locked room.
>>72418510
Why would I know? He's free to appeal the contempt charge on those grounds and a panel of judges or jurors will rule on whether or not there is reasonable doubt about his access to the hard drives.
>>72417335
Someone legit answer plz
>>72418518
Obstruction of Justice can get you 20 years. Most prosecutors would be happy with that.
>>72417278
>he can see things scrambled in the bits
People realize this isn't how encryption works right?
>>72418269
You are not obligated to provide additional information after you allow them to search your house - like a password to your safe or a key to another room.
You can just walk away from the house itself. You do understand that the COURT ORDER, lets them search the house, even if you say "no", they'll just break down your door and look at whatever fuck they want, if you let them in - you save yourself a door.
But you cannot be forced to give out ANY information AT ALL. You simply cannot be forced to speak - You can give them the hard drive or they can take it by order, but you cannot be forced to give out a password or any information in general.
Any lawyer would tell you pretty much the same too.
>>72418438
>Why do you think everyone here is sucking Muslim coco?
because you're a bunch of multiculti cucks
you seem to be forgetting that the success of the western world was built on personal and economic liberty but that would imply a dumb spic like you ever learned anything besides how to be a welfare whore in the first place
>>72418518
Chances are they would clone the drive and enter the password on the clone rather than the original.
I don't believe the police are that stupid.
>>72418515
Completely irrelevant.
He's keeping the cops from finding out when they've established a right to via a lawful warrant.
He's not being held on the illegal stuff that may or may not exist.
Obviously if he could somehow prove that the contents aren't related to any state's interest he would be freed, but that'd be a neat trick without unlocking the drive.
>>72418593
ie. Mega uploadz fag haha that was such bullshit.
Not same sort of bullshit but computer bullshit
>>72418608
So fake usb key then? They can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was foul play.
>>72418573
>You dont have to HELP them get into a locked room.
If you're the one that locked it you damn sure do.
Obviously they tend to just break down the door so that's not really relevant outside of cases like this.
>>72418092
>that vibrator
he's taking more than just hormones
>>72418699
so why aren't they jailing Apple staff for not disclosing information that would assist them in convictions?
>>72418660
>He's keeping the cops from finding out when they've established a right to via a lawful warrant.
He gave them his HDDs.
That's pretty much what ''cooperation with authority'' involves.
>>72418634
>economic liberty
Nazi Germany didn't have rights, went from de-facto third world country to superpower.
Soviet union, no rights, no freedoms, once it kicked into gear it produced tanks like a nigress produces babies, won the war.
Face it burger, you lost
>>72417335
>What if i plant a decrypted HDD in someones home and then make an anonymous tip to the police? Will that someone just vanish forever, since he does not know the password?
You don't even need to do that. Stealth crypts could hide info in the non-encrypted HDDs. Any heavily used HDD could be counted as having hidden encrypted info in them.
>>72418808
Because apple has billions to burn on legal fees and a lot of clout in the goverment.
>>72418826
>Nazi Germany didn't have rights
fucking READ for once in your life you retarded fucking spic
>>72416600
>Be British
>Own screwdriver
>Guilty of possessing a deadly weapon with intent.
Fuck off Muhammad.
>>72418919
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_Kingdom
Bongs have no right to laugh. We're even worse.
>The Fifth Amendment should prevent the government from punishing a person for not testifying against themselves,
Is this true?
>>72416600
So the guy invented an alphabet - made a key to convert his files into the alphabet he invented - his own invention, creation - he refuses to share his private alphabet and gets jailed for that?
>>72418092
>>72418262
Hey anon, thanks for the clue. According to linux websites, Parrot Security OS & BlackArch should be the OS
>>72418573
He is actually. He encrypted it. He is actively preventing them from accessing it.
If he dead, he couldn't be held in contempt. I have no idea why you brought it up.
>>72418660
He could also prove that he doesn't know the key. If this is the case I think it is, that was his position. He claimed to no longer recall the key and the court rejected his claims. As of the last time I read it, they weren't making any silly 5th amendment claims, they just swore up and down that he couldn't unlock it.
>>72418808
The dead mudslime was the one who locked that door. Apple just designed the lock. Also, that case was interrupted by jew super hackers cracking the phone. It's related, but the case would proceed on very different precedents.
>>72418613
>You can just walk away from the house itself. You do understand that the COURT ORDER, lets them search the house, even if you say "no", they'll just break down your door and look at whatever fuck they want, if you let them in - you save yourself a door.
If for example your house were an impenetrable bunker and you had the only key code, you would find yourself in jail until you provided said key code or the cops found a way in.
>court: you must turn over these records
>defendant: fuck you
>court: you're going to sit in contempt until you turn over the records or the cops find them
Dude should say he'll decript the drives and then just smash the things. He'll get out of the indefinite contempt charge and just go to jail for destroying evidence.
As least that shit ends.
>>72416600
Let's say you have an old encrypted hard drive in your closet and you have forgotten the password.
What do you get? Life sentence?
>>72418994
>should
Operative term.
The truth is this idiot should have had a hidden, encrypted partition. Give 'em the PW to the drive itself, and make their forensic "experts" find the partition. They won't be able to because you used TrueCrypt(tm) that the experts -- who graduated from an online college and have shit all for experience -- don't even know about.
Or of course you could just hide in plain sight. Scramble all of your images to look like kitteh, you have to click on a series of pixels to be presented with a challenge, you take out your encrypted dongle and boom, you have your pizza.
But this is shit that you can get from any SA or /. article. I'd like to know what's really going on here.
>>72418808
>so why aren't they jailing Apple staff for not disclosing information that would assist them in convictions?
It would be a public relations snafu. If you think back your coverage this was mentioned as a (theoretical) possibility, though.
>>72419218
God bless the land of muh Freedumz.
>>72419193
What about the Fifth Amendment?
>>72417684
Isn't it like that throughout continental Europe? Being a cuck to the civil law jew instead of beautiful aryan common law.
>>72418823
If you were ordered to turn over your papers by the court and you dropped them off sealed in a puzzle box that will flambe the contents if opened incorrectly or jostled, you didn't turn over shit.
The search covers the contents of the hard drives, not just the drives themselves.
>>72416600
You know...there is a way he can fix this... :) oh wait, he would be 100% guilty if he did that lol.
>>72418975
Holy fuck, you're required to incriminate yourself? How does an entire country stand for that?
>>72419129
>He is actually. He encrypted it. He is actively preventing them from accessing it.
Problem with self-incrimination and presumption of guilty:
>you are the killer
>tell us were the body and murder weapon
>i am not killer am taking The Fifth
>ok go to jail, obstruction of justice, and sit there until you will remember were the body or at least plead guilty
>but i didn't kill anyone
>like we fucking care into the jail you go
>this HDD is encrypted, give us key
>no it is not, there is no key
>into the jail you go until you will remember the key
You literally can not defend yourself against false accusations from police.
>>72419362
United Cuckdom, familia.
couldn't this guy counter-sue the state for wrongful imprisonment due to a contempt charge if he can prove he honestly doesn't remember the password?
>>72419273
>What about the Fifth Amendment?
You don't have a fifth amendment right to conceal information that can't be used against you in a court of law in the first place.
He's not being asked to describe the contents of the drive. He's being asked to provide a string of characters. He wouldn't even have to do it in an on the record setting.
>>72419443
How would he prove that
>>72419416
>can't defend yourself against police
Ask your grandfather about this because this is right where the USA is headed: McCarthyism 2.0 that will make the original look like a tea party.
>>72419443
>prove you don't remember something
How will he do that? MRI of his partial frontal lobotomy?
>>72419443
He'd need to prove malice or negligence.
The state assuming he could unlock shit in his possession isn't a stretch.
tl;dr he could sue but he'd lose.
>>72418185
>>72418185
except china is falling down KEEK
kys finocchio infilati il manganello in culo mentre vieni cuckato dai negri, se vuoi buttare i diritti nel cesso
USA BEST COUNTRY
I'M A REAL AMERICAN
FIGHT FOR THE RIGHTS OF EVERY MAN
I'M A REAL AMERICAN
FIGHT FOR WHAT'S RIGHT
FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE
>>72419245
The last case similar to this ended after police cracked one of 16 drives. They found 700,000 files proving it belonged to the suspect along with a fat pile of child porn. He decided to cooperate after that.
In another, bank fraud, the case ended when a co-defendant provided the password.
These cases have been going on for years and years.
>>72419416
Your example is complete shit.
He does not deny owning the drives. He does not deny encrypting them. He's arguing that his fifth amendment rights allow him to refuse to comply with the search warrant for the contents of those drives.
No one has ever won a similar case that I can find. The police eventually crack the drives, or someone else sells the person out. Every time.
>>72419505
Wew, you don't even know your own constitution.
The fifth amendment stops a court from compelling you to testify against yourself, exactly what this guy is being compelled to do.
>>72419443
Oh, oh I know! Hypnosis!
The police already heavily depend on dubious psychology, why not use this parlor trick as well to prove you're innocent?
>>72419443
You guys actually believe he can't remember the password? Normies can forget passwords, but no normie on earth would bother or even understand what encryption is.
He knows exactly what he is trying to do because he got caught.
>>72416600
Mandatory.
>>72419416
This is false though, the police were tracking the downloads of known child porn hashes and tracked it to his IP address.
It is reasonable enough to expect that on the encrypted drive there is child porn and that is why he is being held.
They didn't just rock up at his house one day, arrest him and ask for his encryption.
Land of the Free!!!
>>72419245
>>72419245
moar info pl0x
anyway is those pedos fault if we can't have freedom anymore
>>72419722
is the government's fault*
>>72419593
>He's arguing that his fifth amendment rights allow him to refuse to comply with the search warrant
He's being asked to testify against himself. A court has no authority to do this.
>>72419362
Judging from this thread you are in exactly the same boat
>>72418887
>MUH RIGHTS! MUH FREEDUMBS!
Typical amerilard
>>72416600
>if you got nothing to hide you got nothing to fear
>>72417962
You don't need to store cp in mexico, you can just pay 5$ to any local mother.
>>72419610
>The fifth amendment stops a court from compelling you to testify against yourself, exactly what this guy is being compelled to do.
He's not being put on a witness stand and forced to give testimony that would help convict him. He is being asked for a key.
Unless the key is Ilovediddlingkids followed by his initials, birthday, and a #, that shit doesn't constitute harmful testimony.
Refusing to turn it over constitutes concealing evidence however.
Also, if the prosecutor signs off on saying anything he tells them while telling them the password, including the password, won't be used against him in court, he no longer has a 5th amendment protection (which he didn't in the first place so it's a moot point) and would have to provide said password.
>>72419576
Nice proxy amerilard
>>72419425
I'm sorry Bongbro. Maybe it's time for a revolution. We did it, you can too.
>not frying your HDD
>>72419245
>>72419722
See
>>72419661
The man was not dragged from his house at random, the police have probably cause to search his shit.
The equivalent would be if the police pull you over and they hear moaning and banging coming from your trunk (boot), they have reasonable suspicions you've comitted a crime and they're going to open it up.
The problem comes with digital locks, you need the password whereas a physical lock can be bypassed or forced open.
>>72419826
http://www.wired.com/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/
>>72419593
>He does not deny owning the drives. He does not deny encrypting them. He's arguing that his fifth amendment rights allow him to refuse to comply with the search warrant for the contents of those drives.
If you make law about giving the keys aka self-incrimination you set precedent and open the gates for aforementioned examples. Police could press you into giving the "right" for them answer. If you are not giving the "right" answer it would be counted as obstruction of justice. Even if this "right" answer simply doesn't even exist. BURDEN OF PROOF LIES ON YOU. How can you even proof that string of characters with big entropy is not encrypted information? Pro tip: you can't.
>>72419808
>Right to remain silent
Nope
>>72419766
No, he isn't. There's a solid 20 years of case law on this.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/appeals-court-fifth-amendment-protections-can-apply-to-encrypted-hard-drives/
That article pretty well sums up where the line is between 5th amendment protected encryption and not 5th amendment protected. The government has a witness who saw CP on the system, he's not protected.
>>72416600
You people do realize that he 100% has illegal images on his computer right?
Pedos/turks btfo yet again
>>72419987
Enjoy prison then, chum
>>72419910
I wasn't implying if you have nothing to hide argument is a good one. As far as I know CP hurts no one just like watching gore videos hurt no one, the one who's doing the act should be the responsible not the one who watches CP that's redefined to hell.
>>72419999
>>72420044
Both the truth, repeating digits confirms it
>>72420044
>this only affects pedos
America pls.
>>72419999
Well then your legal system is worse than even the UK.
>>72416600
>a former police sergeant
Ten bucks he left because he found something he didn't like and the Gov. wants to know what he's found out since then.
CP charges are always the go-to for silence cases like this.
>>72419651
Underrated
>>72416600
>>be American
>>refuse to give police all of your passwords
>>be jailed
Brits do this too though...
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_Kingdom
>Failure to disclose carries a maximum penalty of two years in jail.
Not indefinitely, but still.. Literally being convicted for failing to cooperate with your own prosecution. Only the Anglo could come up with something like that...
>>72419651
>normie
>hoarding cp
Pick one.
>>72419722
Learn about TrueCrypt and go from there.
>>72419886
This.
There's a slight problem with that though. See the Defon talk from last year and the insane amount of power it takes to destroy a HD. I still think that it will have to be done chemically, but that's not as cool of a presentation as blowing shit up.
I see where we're moving with this though. You're already presumed guilty if you (ack) have Tor on your box, can install Kali, or know the first goddamned thing about a computer. This group is hereinafter referred to as Low Hanging Fruit.
F
>>72416600
Fifth amendment should apply to this its common sense but damn boomer justices are retarded.
>>72417651
Eat a dick, Algeria
>>72419661
>This is false though, the police were tracking the downloads of known child porn hashes and tracked it to his IP address.
Consequences are not false. You will remove Fifth you set possibility for such abuse. Without Fifth police could incriminate you anything and hold you in jail until you will "cooperate". Could be Fifth abused by defendant? Yes it can. Same as other legal procedures. Lawers consume huge resources. But due process with rights to defend were set up for the reason.
>>72419999
>The government has a witness who saw CP on the system, he's not protected.
>mfw it turns out loli drawings
in any case do the government have actual evidence or should not cooperating government count as an evidence?
>>72417958
Need a tall tree and a short rope for that one.
>>72419946
I know the Gulag was terrible, but that isn't even remotely related to what is going on in this case.
The US doesn't have a blanket law forcing people to decrypt files. It's been handled by federal courts on a case by case basis.
Most of the time, it doesn't get far before the files are cracked, or another co-conspirator gives up the files.
>>72420130
Why? Because we have judges decide on a case by case basis if the government can compel someone to decrypt files? In the UK, he'd already be guilty of a stack of crimes. They'd convict him of possession of the child pornography on the testimony of the witness and his failure to decrypt the drives, for which he'd have already been convicted.
Here, absent that witness to the content of the drives, he'd be a free man.
>>72419946
>Police could press you into giving the "right" for them answer.
Perjury is illegal.
You have a right to refuse to testify in a trial against you but if you do you are required by law to be truthful even if said answers would be testimony against your interests.
Concealing evidence is a crime, just like destroying evidence is a crime. If the police have established probable cause to believe that something is evidence related to a case and obtained a warrant to seize said evidence, obstructing them in their pursuit of seizing that evidence, either by failing to turn it over when ordered, hiding it, or destroying it, is illegal.
You don't have to tell them the evidence exists, nor comment on why it exists, but if it's in your god dam possession and they prove it exists and obtain a legal right to have it, you have to turn it the fuck over.
>>72420064
I realize Europeans don't understand how it works in the free world, so I'll explain it for you. Nobody is allowed to force you to incriminate yourself and we aren't so fucking backwards as to think that silence is somehow an admission of guilt. Not saying a word is literally one of the most solid defenses in our justice system. Keep commenting on shit you know nothing about though.
>>72419651
I have encrypted partitions with 32+ characters, I don't like to write the passwords on paper, I have to memorize it.
And yes, I forget passwords sometimes.
If you go to jail because you forgot your password, not actually because the content in the device, that's pretty fucked.
>>72420229
>current year
>using truecrypt
Enjoy the fucko squad m8
>>72418323
I bet you if he held on that long it was worth not surrendering to whatever person his wife was.
Clearly he was pissed off.
>>72420229
>not having a thermite rig above your hdds
anon pls
>>72420282
Italian flags get always mistaken on purpose, can you please fill me in regarding the origins of this dank new meme?
>>72420169
It's not quite as simple as that article makes it out to be.
It's like slavery, still requires positive legislation to activate it.
>>72417958
Right to speedy trial has been slowly shit upon.
>>72417876
>some stranger acuses you of murder
>BOLICE! OPEN THE DOOR
>SHOW US WHERE YOU HID THE BODY
>w-what?
>THATS IT YOU GO TO JAIL
>>72420317
>and they prove it exists
Which they didn't in this case, or they wouldn't be having the case.
>and obtain a legal right to have it, you have to turn it the fuck over.
And it was turned over, wasn't it? The hard drive is in the hands of authorities.. The hard drive is their alleged evidence. So why do they still not have a case? Perhaps because they don't actually have any evidence, in spite of them claiming so?
>>72420169
Failing to cooperate with the police is illegal everywhere.
Failure to comply with a lawful order, contempt of court, obstruction of justice, concealing evidence, perjury, resisting arrest, aiding and abetting a fugitive, flight, etc, etc.
very unnerving
>>72418156
But once they figure that out they let you sit in jail between beatings in an extra rapeable state.
>>72420307
>They'd convict him of possession of the child pornography on the testimony of the witness
If you could convince a jury, just like in the US
>failure to decrypt the drives
Isn't an offence in the UK
>>72420474
>Failing to cooperate with the police is illegal everywhere.
No it isn't.
>>72419245
>The truth is this idiot should have had a hidden, encrypted partition.
They just ask for the keys until it will produce cp from your HDD. You can't provide that? Court order, into the jail you go for obstruction of justice.
>>72418360
He's not preventing them from getting in though. There's a difference between obstructing justice and assisting the investigation.
He's not preventing them, he's just not helping them. You're not found in contempt of court just because you don't open your door when the police knock, for example. They might bust down your door if you don't cooperate, but that doesn't mean you get slapped with a charge.
>>72420412
Knicca pls, stop defending this bullshit. It's a well known and documented fact that failing to provide passports/encryption keys can be a sole ground for prosecution in the UK. That's totalitarian tier m8...
>>72420285
Listen you fucking retard, THEY TRACKED HIM DOWNLOADING KNOWN CP IMAGES TO HIS IP ADDRESS AND HE IS FAILING TO COMPLY WITH A SEARCH WARRANT.
THEY DID NOT JUST TURN UP AT HIS HOUSE FOR NO FUCKING REASON
Using the fifth to attempt to subvert a search warrant is what led him to placed in content of court.
If he had a chilfd locked in a room which was impenetrable unless you had the password, would you say he is right to invoke the fifth against a search warrant when he doesn't disclose the password.
>>72420476
He should have kept them hidden better, if I'm ever taken into custody, I am confident my externals will never be found.
>>72420565
Contempt*
>>72420285
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONCEAL EVIDENCE.
The 5th prevents you from having to either create evidence in the form of testimony or make the state aware of evidence. That's god damn all. If the state is already aware of evidence, it has a legal right to that shit, and you do not have a right to obstruct that process.
>>72420387
>implying thermite can properly destroy a hdd
no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpX8YvNg6Y
watch this
>>72420504
>>failure to decrypt the drives
>Isn't an offence in the UK
Why are you lying?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_Kingdom
>>72419860
>would incriminate
Its your right to use the fifth, and determine for yourself of you think maybe you need to. Otherwise they can always say, oh dont worry answering wont incriminate you :)
>>72420307
anyone can testify anything. they simply can't prove that he has the keys, and he already "tried" them and they didn't work
but this doesn't matter because the state owns you and you love it
>>72420565
>possibly having CP on a drive is the same as having a child locked in a room of your housee
>>72420288
A witness is evidence. At least enough to get the search warrant that he's trying to defy. He could decrypt the files to prove it was loli drawings and not cp and he'd be free to go.
>>72420504
Yes, it is.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7102180.stm
>>72416600
>suspect
They can arrest people for things they don't know?
>>72417639
So he should be charged with obstruction of justice and the trial should be done with.
>>72420565
>HIS IP ADDRESS
>FAILING TO COMPLY WITH A SEARCH WARRANT
:^)
You don't have to actively comply with the police since you've not been proven guilty of anything.
>le it's okay to assume guilt because I think he might be guilty
>>72420565
That's why you fucking pay taxes. The police has to open that Device, not the suspect. Why? Because the fifth amendment.
>>72420472
>Which they didn't in this case, or they wouldn't be having the case.
They've established probable cause. Hence the warrant.
Try again.
>And it was turned over, wasn't it? The hard drive is in the hands of authorities.. The hard drive is their alleged evidence. So why do they still not have a case? Perhaps because they don't actually have any evidence, in spite of them claiming so?
You don't really know what a hard drive is, do you?
>>72420670
>He could decrypt the files to prove it was loli drawings and not cp and he'd be free to go.
>implying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urqc-rdNc_Q
>>72420565
>If he had a chilfd locked in a room which was impenetrable unless you had the password
requires presumption that there's actually a child in the room. they absolutely can't prove that there is one in this case. all they have is she said this, logs said that
I'd also say this would never happen because they'd just break into the room but as a state bootlicker you'd say something like "b-but he has a poison gas setup where if you don't open it the normal way the child dies" and make your analogy even more irrelevant
also if he forgot the keys, then he rots in jail forever based on something they can't prove. he already "tried" the keys and they didn't work
>>72418194
Well, you can't say that that cunt-eyed NEET was forced to do that.
>>72420565
How is giving up encryption keys part of a search warrant?
>>72420612
The password isn't evidence.
The disks are. They have the disks. He shouldn't need to give them anything else.
>>72420627
>>72420670
Needs positive legislation to achieve that, as was required in all of those cases.
>>72420673
Suspect has changed definition. This is the black variant of suspect. (so he's actually guilty)
>>72420662
>>72420706
>>72420741
>refusing to comply with a search warrant
yes that is a crime, educate yourselves you fucking dipshits
>>72420373
truecrypt still good in current year but it will be obsolete in 2017/2018 because no longer support (fuck NSA).
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/11/truecrypt-is-safer-than-previously-reported-detailed-analysis-concludes/
https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/EN/BSI/Publications/Studies/Truecrypt/Truecrypt.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2
>>72420557
You can beat your head against the wall all fucking day long.
I'm citing actual case law. Precedents from 2000 forward.
If the government has a witness or proof that the files exist, they have succeeded in compelling decryption. In one case, they lacked proof that the files exists, with their own expert admitting the drives could be completely empty, the decryption was not compelled.
The government has a witness here, so it's open and shut. He decrypts the files, or sits in jail until a judge decides he'll never do it.
Why not just decrypt it themselves?
>>72420753
>probable cause
I guess if police hear a gunshot, from say a negligent discharge, they can say you murdered someone.
They can't prove you did, but you can't prove you didn't :^)
>>72420474
>Failing to cooperate with the police is illegal everywhere.
It isn't. It's actually a right suspects have in civilised countries, in the sense that you're not obligated to answer any questions or undertake any actions that might incriminate yourself....
>Failure to comply with a lawful order
Forcing people to cooperate with their own prosecution is not typically lawful, anon.
>contempt of court,
A suspect cannot be in contempt of court for the sole reason of failing to answer questions, anon.
>obstruction of justice,
Again, in civilised countries failing to cooperate with your own prosecution is not considered an obstruction of justice, but a basic right of any suspect.
>concealing evidence,
The hard drive is in posession of the prosecution, is it not? Then how is it concealed?
>perjury,
Failing to provide a passport is not perjury
>resisting arrest,
Something different entirely than refusing to answer questions or provide information
>aiding and abetting a fugitive,
How is that even related to what goes on in this case? It's also not illegal everywhere, depending on context.
>flight
Failing to submit to stop order carries perhaps a $100,- in many jurisdictions. Escaping from prison isn't even illegal as such in some European countries, including this one, because the urge to be free is considered a basic human need that should not be punished as such.
>>72420545
>No it isn't.
In the UK it can be though, depending on context.
>>72420804
You can't physically prevent the police from searching your house, you don't have to give them your keys.
Since you are innocent until proven guilty.
>>72420336
M8, you're posting in a thread where a guy in America is literally being imprisoned for not incriminating himself. We have the exact same right to silence in Britain but if they have evidence your HD is full of kiddie porn and a court order to look at it that ain't gonna help you.
>>72420865
The failed.
>>72420814
an audit shows it has no actually significant security flaws. it can't be decrypted until quantum computing makes some methods trivial to break
>>72420863
>witness testimonies are completely infallible
>>72420901
they*
>>72420634
Yes, once you start huffing petrol and assuming the state spends all it's time looking for innocent pedos to jail, along with scores of fake witnesses lined up, I suppose you'll believe anything.
>>72420565
This, police officers will not just show up and go apeshit on your house if you are an innocent citizen.
This man has been tracked online doing some type of nefarious shit, stupidly downloading things from places that are under surveillance.
He got caught, end of story. I suggest you pedos in the thread learn from your fallen brethren
>>72420612
Problem is that evidence can legitimately non exist. Info may not be saved or it was deleted from HDD (rewritred by random info). But police could demand decrypting keys for legitimately non-existing info and defendant cannot prove that such keys doest not exist.
>>72420879
>In the UK it can be though, depending on context.
It always requires positive legislation.
>>72420863
>perjury doesn't exist
>you couldn't hate the guy and go into court and say "I was at his house once and he plugged in a hard drive that looked like that and there were kids being fucked on it"
>>72420946
So they have no evidence but that's okay because the prosecution believes truthiness is on their side
>>72420792
>Needs positive legislation
That's not even English.
Don't tell me you're on of those freeman of the land retards that I always see in court for not paying their TV licence and council tax.
You need to stop chatting bollocks. It's a crime to not hand over your encryption key in this shithole.
>>72419333
If the papers were already in the puzzle box before they delivered the warrant, I don't see how you would be obliged to open it.
>>72417278
>scrambled in the bits
This guy is a fruit, no wonder he works for the gov
>>72420957
Until he has been convicted in a court of law, he is to be regarded as not guilty.
I mean, he's probably guilty as shit, but they'll need to actually prove it, and he doesn't need to help them one bit with that. Or, at least he shouldn't.
>>72420557
>He's not preventing them from getting in though. There's a difference between obstructing justice and assisting the investigation.
So he didn't store the information covered in the warrant in an impenetrable hard drive?
If a business suspected of fraud was ordered to turn over its business records and dropped them off with the cops in a locked cutting edge safe with a security feature that flash fries the contents if opened improperly and then said figure out the passcode your own damn self, everyone involved in that decision would be in this exact same situation.
There is a difference between turning something over and turning something that contains something over.
>>72420317
That makes no sense, because if mind reading is ever possible then what? What use is the fifth amendment? Oh dont worry you dont have to say it we'll just read your mind here because we "know it exists".
They should just offer less time if you help, otherwise risk them convicting you without your help if they have enough evidence already.
>all those bootlickers
Funny how 4chan was always for encryption and looking ways to avoid giving up keys. Just another proof that /pol/ is full of government shills.
>>72421022
No, you've just looked it up on wikipedia and haven't seen a "in the UK" entry because you don't know anything about UK law.
>>72417074
high quality hentai
too good to let the feds get their hands on it
>take control of computing remotely, use to distribute pornography
keep in mind this is something the russian mafia has been known to do
>pressure witness until they say they thought they probably maybe if they recall saw CP for a split second before he pulled the power
>jail the guy indefinitely after he already tried the keys
>will never be released until reconsideration if he's truly forgotten the keys or if the drives are damaged such that the keys don't actually work
>it's not against the 5th amendment to force him to incriminate himself, trust me, all the recent rulings by a corrupt legal system prove it
>this is just
>>72420583
Externals? What are those? I may have lost those in a boating accident.
>>72417777
Witnessed
>>72420565
>>72420612
>Anglos actually defending the governments right to force you to help your own prosecution
Wew..
>>72420753
>They've established probable cause. Hence the warrant.
Probably cause is not actual proof he commited the crime he's suspected of though, it merely gives them grounds for an investigation..
>You don't really know what a hard drive is, do you?
You really don't know what basic rights suspects should have under the rule of law in civilised countries, do you?
>>72420792
>needs positive legislation
Meaning what? These people were forced to give up their passwords to aid their own prosecution, and were convicted of not doing so when they refused.. What exactly are you trying to defend here?
>>72420804
>yes that is a crime,
But failing to cooperate with your own prosecution shouldn't be, you utter fucking savage...
>>72420863
That's totalitarian as fuck m80
>>72420302
A quick and painless death is too good for the bastard. Better to just burn him alive at the stake.
>>72417278
>Tankelewicz
I smell a Jew.
>>72418373
This desu
CP is a serious accusation and pirated vidya wouldn't land him in jail anyway.
>NOTHING TO HIDE
>NOTHING TO FEAR
>>72419333
"I forgot the password"
>>72420670
loli images are CP by law.
>>72421092
If the cops raided the business and hauled away their safe that stores their files, I would say that the owner is under no obligation to assist.
>>72420970
>It always requires positive legislation.
Either way, you can be forced to cooperate with your own prosecution which is absolutely savage.
>>72421114
but muh children....
>>72420630
>Otherwise they can always say, oh dont worry answering wont incriminate you :)
That's a thing. If a judge grants you immunity for your testimony, you can't invoke the 5th and attempting to do so will land your ass in contempt of court.
Or, as is the case here, if the testimony in question isn't incriminatory in the first place according to a judge (such as the one that sentenced him to contempt), you can be forced to testify.
Obviously he can appeal that it is incriminatory, but that's about all he can do and he will lose.
>>72416600
Hand over my encryption keys?
OK here you go.
Hidden partitions?
What hidden paritions?
Sounds like speculation to me.
I did comply with the law, I supplied the keys.
walkfree.jpg
How hilarious would it be if the guy gets shanked in prison for suspected kiddy porn, and then mystically the encryption is broken shortly after only to reveal that the hard drive only had granny porn on it and the dude only kept the password to himself to save himself from the embarrassment
>>72421067
He can easily prove he is not guilty. Give them the passwords.
But of course he is not going to do that because he IS 100% guilty. No innocent man would just simply sit in silence, they would do anything they could to prove themselves to be innocent.
And no one, I repeat NO ONE forgets passwords to encrypted devices, it just doesn't happen.
>>72421201
Nah that's more of a Slav name
>>72417278
>see things in scrambled bits
Hahahahahahhahahahahaahaha
>American education
>>72418637
You should believe they are that stupid though
>>72420957
Problem is not the that he is guilty. He probably is. But problem is that such solution opens police abuse onto other citizens. It is easy mode for incrimination of anyone.
>>72421274
>Not having the simple right to say 'You want to prosecute me? Go ahead. I'm not helping you...'
>>72421274
I'm calling the fucking MI5, you're going down, kiddie diddler.
>>72420373
>>72420814
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/28/brazil_banker_crypto_lock_out/
>>72420784
>The password isn't evidence.
Which means it can't be used against him in a court of law.
Which means he has no 5th amendment right to refuse to comply with a lawful order to provide it.
Checkm8, bitch.
>>72421127
I'm actually a solicitor, and registered with the SRA.
You're a retard who can't read and is lying to people on the internet that we're not in an even more dire situation when it comes to encryption than our American cousins.
Just stop embarrassing yourself.
53 Failure to comply with a notice.
(1)A person to whom a section 49 notice has been given is guilty of an offence if he knowingly fails, in accordance with the notice, to make the disclosure required by virtue of the giving of the notice
(2)In proceedings against any person for an offence under this section, if it is shown that that person was in possession of a key to any protected information at any time before the time of the giving of the section 49 notice, that person shall be taken for the purposes of those proceedings to have continued to be in possession of that key at all subsequent times, unless it is shown that the key was not in his possession after the giving of the notice and before the time by which he was required to disclose it.
(3) For the purposes of this section a person shall be taken to have shown that he was not in possession of a key to protected information at a particular time if—
(a)sufficient evidence of that fact is adduced to raise an issue with respect to it; and
(b)the contrary is not proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
(4)In proceedings against any person for an offence under this section it shall be a defence for that person to show
[...]
(5)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
(a)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding [F1the appropriate maximum term] or to a fine, or to both;
(b)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both.
[F2(5A)In subsection (5) ‘the appropriate maximum term’ means—
(a)in a national security case [F3or a child indecency case], five years; and
(b)in any other case, two years.
>>72421268
>Or, as is the case here, if the testimony in question isn't incriminatory in the first place according to a judge (such as the one that sentenced him to contempt), you can be forced to testify.
Wait. They claim that the material is inciminating, which is why they want access, but he won't incriminate himself by providing access?
Did I stumble into one of Kafkas books?
>>72421289
>This person could be sitting on an American jury at some point in his life during an actual court case with an actual persons freedom or life at state
>>72421289
he already tried the passwords and he didn't work.
the state's case:
>he's lying, jail him until he stops lying
>And no one, I repeat NO ONE forgets passwords to encrypted devices, it just doesn't happen.
we've got a master of neuroscience here.
I can tell you that I've forgotten the password to a large encrypted file and been unable to decrypt it before. so I couldn't access a subset of my drive's data
>this doesn't happen if you extend it to the entire drives because muh truthiness
>>72420868
hearing a gunshot is grounds for breaking down your door.
And trying to keep the cops out of your house when they try to get in at that point is very much a crime.
>>72420910
Again, fuck a hornet's nest all you like. That's the most germane difference between the numerous cases where the federal courts have upheld forced decryption vs THE case where the did not do so in 2012.
They're not convicting of him shit based on witness testimony. They're using it to reasonably establish that the files exist. That's the basis of the standard
Canada's laws aren't so lenient.
>>72421007
Well, yes, but that's not even close to what he's arguing. And I'd foil that charge instantly by decrypting my drive. Then the dumbfuck who committed perjury would go to jail.
>>72421015
Witnesses, and government surveillance count as evidence.
The government would like to establish more firmly if the accusations are true or false, but the defendant is refusing to allow them access to the files.
He can't really swear he has no CP and that the witness is lying while refusing to disclose the files that would prove it because doing so would incriminate him.
>>72417278
Maybe he's in for a long haul and is planning to get a huge compensation for unrightful jailing?
>mfw he tells them the password on 1 year mark
>>72420879
>Then how is it concealed?
The "papers" within are concealed within the hard drive.
/debate
>>72421313
Don't download illegal shit, it's the same as a black person stealing a bait car. Don't do it and you'll be just fine.
He was tracked downloading from a watched site, (just like a bait car) and got BTFO.
>>72421402
>trying to keep the cops out of your house when they try to get in at that point is very much a crime.
Except it literally isn't.
>>72420670
Is this witenss IP logs? or did someone physically sit next to him whilst he Dl'd dank nasheeds?
I'm actually scared off all this Americans defending a police state ....
The (((media))) has full control of American's minds.
>>72421274
>I did comply with the law, I supplied the keys.
Wrong keys m8. Sit in jail until you will give us right keys.
>>72421452
>nothing to hide
>nothing to fear
Sorry, that works only in a world where the NSA can't access any device they want.
>>72421114
this desu.
/pol/ is always complaining about government overreach when it comes to SJW topics, but when it comes to something like this it's all "please do my ass harder uncle sam" "would you like some more of my rights uncle sam?"
>>72421289
I see the judge from 1692 Salem fell through a time portal and ended up shitposting on a chinese cartoon board
>>72417651
>things were better under totalitarian dictators
Found the mudslime
>>72421451
He turned the files over. He's basically done as much as he can do without actively helping his own prosecution.. Why would you support people being forced to do so in a state governed by the rule of law?
>>72420881
http://blogs.denverpost.com/crime/2012/01/05/why-criminals-should-always-use-combination-safes/3343
Really a legal limbo right now that'll eventually be settled. Thing is, a key is what? A set of parameters? What if you claimed to memorize the angles and design of the key?
>>72421274
>encryption
>Windows 10
Full retard.
>>72421405
>The government would like to establish more firmly if the accusations are true or false, but the defendant is refusing to allow them access to the files.
no, you haven't even read the article because you're a faggot
he tried the keys. they didn't work.
your case is that he does in fact know the keys against his word, which is purely speculation.
what's to stop this being extended to "enemies of the state" who hold sensitive information? the prosecution just needs to claim it's CP
>>72421452
That's some Stasi tier reasoning m8...
>>72421452
>just bend over and take the government's cock up your ass :^)
>you want the freedom to do what you want in your own home, without involving anybody else? You're going to prison
>>72421489
Don't forget the Brits...
>>72421289
>He can easily prove he is not guilty.
This is not how the system works in any free country.
>>72421408
>implying state will not say that he's been hiding cp in ascii format
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU
>>72420612
There is no evidence, scrambled random data could in theory be anything, in fact depending on the encryption type is could just be empty space (all zeros) so there is zero evidence of anything.
The 5th protects you from self incrimination because it stops law enforcement from using punishment to compell you to provide potentially false information against yourself, which is why this was put into the constitution to start with.
You cannot charge someone with concealing evidence unless you can demonstrate that what is being hidden is actually evidence, it may very well be something completely irrelevant and private.
The law is behind the times with encryption, in the UK it's a 3 year sentence for not decrypting data that you're suspected having the decryption keys for but hidden encryption allows you to essentially meet the standard of the law but still hide encrypted data.
>people in this thread still believe that the constitution isn't void
If it's completely fine to ignore the 5th amendment when you have a "good reason", then it's completely fine to ignore the rest of them.
Have a nice day.
>>72420962
No system is perfect. Also, even if there were no relevant information on the HDD, the police would have reason to believe the owner would be able to get into that shit.
My advice is don't accidentally create locked spaces that seem to contain evidence of felonies that you can't get into.
>Not using plausible deniablilty.
>Being this dumb
>>72421156
How does self incrimination work if they just don't go over this right?
>>72421222
Businesses usually are given more leeway since its usually sales taxes that pay for the cops. Your income tax doesn't.
>>72421408
they would claim it's in a hidden volume at that point. what's to stop them now that they're already working on the presumption of guilt?
they can't say that the drive is encrypted, it's for the most part a random scramble of bits. it might be damaged such that it can't be decrypted with the keys, but they insist it works even though they don't know, and insist he's lying even though they don't know
>>72421616
Or try living in a country that isn't a nanny police state.
I hear you can live pretty comfortably in some SE Asian countries if you have a little money.
>>72420612
>If the state is already aware of evidence
If they state were already aware of evicende, they wouldn't have to fight this case, anon. They don't have evidence, they just suspect that there might be some on the drive...
>>72420894
>if they have evidence your HD is full of kiddie porn
I never said anything about not being prosecuted when there's evidence against you, I said you aren't required to incriminate yourself (actually, I just called into question your country's law that requires you to incriminate yourself, as linked by your compatriot) and that not saying anything isn't an admission of guilt. Can you even read?
>>72421399
Also this.
Unless it's some password you use regularly there is a good chance you will forget.
I forgot my paypall pw and now I can never use that account again.
I forgot the security question answers too.
>>72421616
>My advice is don't accidentally create locked spaces that seem to contain evidence of felonies that you can't get into.
Oh man...
Russians have malware that makes EXACTLY that. I don't see why the Gov. couldn't do that for their benefits.
>>72421268
First part is fine because thats it you aren't incriminating yourself you have immunity.
Second part is asinine because you shouldnt even need to prove its incriminatory, because doing so is also incriminatory.
Lol mr judge I cannot tell u password cuz I gots illegal shit there plz. Makes no goddamn sense.
>>72421616
My advice is: Move to a free country as far away from the Anglosphere as possible..
>>72421289
But thats the pass judge I guess the hard drive is degraded..
Now if they find the real password and can prove you gave the wrong one on purpose..
>Fail to comply with a court order.
>get thrown in jail.
Woooow!
>>72421044
>If the papers were already in the puzzle box before they delivered the warrant, I don't see how you would be obliged to open it.
That's because you're an idiot.
When they were hidden in the shit hiding them doesn't impact whether or not you turned over the papers, it's hidden either way and thus not god damn turned over.
By your logic, if someone hid the papers in the box after being ordered to turn them over, it wouldn't be a crime because they still turned it over. Either the state of being hidden within the box is relevant to the status of being turned over or not.
>>72421221
Not in the US.
>>72421468
The witnesses are his sister, and some tech wonk. I don't really have, or need much specific info on this case, because these always come down the same way.
If the witness is found to be credible, he'll be compelled to decrypt.
>>72421550
I forgot the key has been tried numerous times. No one to my knowledge has been released on that basis alone.
Specifically, he 'tried the keys' it failed, and then when pressed about it, he jumped to the fifth amendment claim.
>>72421399
The encryption itself can be broken or the hard drive corrupted
>>72421843
The court order should never have been legal.
>>72421860
>when they didn't accept he didn't know the keys he tried to switch to an argument that might work regardless of whether he knows the keys or not
well know we know he's guilty
>>72421169
>Probably cause is not actual proof he commited the crime he's suspected of though, it merely gives them grounds for an investigation..
He's not in jail for the crime he's suspected of.
He's in jail for impeding the investigation.
>>72421843
>fail to comply with an unconstitutional order
ftfy, champ
>>72421399
You are a complete dipshit if you forget encrypted passwords. Plain and simple. He did something wrong, he knows he did something wrong, they know he did something wrong. He is feigning ignorance to try and save his skin, and it's not working.
>>72421838
This is exactly what is going to happen. He tried bogus passwords. I doubt this is the first time a pedophile has tried this tactic either.
>>72421608
Pretty much.
>>72421314
Yeah it sucks but there's functional work arounds. There's also a lot of work going into stenography to hide the actual presence of encryption to begin with.
>>72421323
Come at me bro
>>72421492
>Wrong keys m8. Sit in jail until you will give us right keys.
There's no other keys, nor is there any evidence of any other encrypted partitions, they're mathematically impossible to prove, the proof of hidden encryption would essentially require breaking the encryption which is a computationally intractable problem.
>>72421544
Win10 is fine, it doesn't allow the discovery of hidden partitions any more than any other OS. If you believe that to be true then simply provide evidence I'm wrong.
>>72416600
Honestly,
Make a hidden partition.
Fill the main one with bestiality, or work related documents.
>>72416600
They should really just kill him now. Even if he isn't a chomo piece of shit, to send the message we don't tolerate this.
>>72421605
Congrats, you just meandered your way to US case law on the subject.
Without a witness or other evidence that the files do in fact exist, he wouldn't be compelled to decrypt. (Doe v US, 2012) That case was actually turned specifically on the fact that there was no proof the encrypted data wasn't a blank drive. (TrueCrypt)
This case turns on the witnesses. They are what makes the states case for decryption compelling.
>>72421977
> never forgetting a password
Have you ever tried remembering a 30 char pw after 10 years?
It's not that easy.
>>72421990
Wrong thinking.
Yes, you can do that, to protect yourself more.
But that you have to do it already proves that the system in unjust.
>>72421989
Sorry Ahmed but kiddiediddlers don't belong in first world societies
>>72422026
this.
>>72421860
>his sister
Of course it's an old hag that is jealous of younger women that reported him.
>>72421800
>panama papers now make complete sense and I aint even mad
Govt leaders protecting themselves from their own beast
>>72421348
Providing access isn't incriminating himself if his providing of access isn't used to link him to the contents. He isn't disputing his ownership of the drives.
You do have to turn over evidence you are established to possess when ordered.
>>72421989
>There's no other keys,
Obstruction of justice into the jail you go. This is exact problem of such legislations and rulings.
>>72422068
pragmatic thinking.
We live in a broken system and have deal with that rather than pretend we live in a fairy tale.
>>72421977
Fine if that happens but that can't just hold him while they take all his life to try to convict him.
>>72417958
They made a Law & Order: Criminal Intent episode about this guy. ("Consumed")
>>72421532
>He turned the files over.
No, he turned the file cabinet over.
The state doesn't have the files or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
>>72421989
Well, I suppose it's fine if you never decrypt them while using W10.
>>72422120
>Providing access isn't incriminating himself if his providing of access isn't used to link him to the contents.
It is if the content itself is still debateable.
But there's a more general point here. You should not be required to aid an investigation against you. AT ALL.
>>72422164
But if he isn't in a cell he might LOOK AT PIXELS ON HIS COMPUTER.
>>72420902
>quantum computers
>police
>>72421221
Citation needed
>>72421274
Not calling your 1.2t partition "walkfree.jpg"
>>72421324
>Brazil
That was just like panama papers, inside job my friend.
>>72421544
kek
>>72422164
I would imagine they are holding him because they think he is a flight risk.
>>72421977
guilty of the crime of forgetting a password, jail the dipshit eternally
this guy has an encrypted drive, do you think his password is "kitty123"?
maybe kitty123j8FHUNpdioMI()UWVHR U(@HV FEUANSF IVEWJIUR(YEAH&DT&WYGBRUODJIOFHE(UT@UVLEJHRW*UTV
>>72422181
Did they specify which files they want?
Or can you write a warrant for just any old random file they might find?
>>72422180
>lost its coercive effect
The fuck.
Police brutality is ok as long as its spread out. This is like phone book beatings.
>>72421977
So he have to go in prison for being dipshit?
>>72421799
>Second part is asinine because you shouldnt even need to prove its incriminatory, because doing so is also incriminatory.
Generally part 2 is either done in closed chambers meetings with judges or when the nature of the information to be disclosed is de fact not harmful such as a password (ie this case).
NEW THREAD
>>72422259
>>72422259
>>72422259
>>72422181
>No, he turned the file cabinet over.
With the files in them. Why are you so zealous in advocating that which would be considered a violation of your basic civil rights in most of the free world?
Why are Anglos so eternally Anglo?
>>72422247
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/12/19/court-appeals-affirms-cartoons-child-porn-are-illegal.html
>>72421585
>>72421691
Fucking inquisition-tier.
>>72417958
Oy vey what a war on women we have going on here!
>>72418073
I've had two Windows phones suddenly refuse to accept the unlock key. They had to be reset to factory condition. That's a known condition with those devices and a precedent.
>>72422232
Yeah I think those who produce real cp should be put away. The rest, if its a case where sanity is at play, if the prosecutor finds cp it should be fair play to use it to establish the person isn't of sound mind and leave it to a jury of his peers.
However, shouldn't be forced to testify any code.
>>72422258
Yeah but thats for when a case is in progress, but not supposed to be for when its artificially prolonged
>>72422304
How is that not de fact harmful? If its proven not harmful then they prove its not relevant to the case.
>>72417959
Meanwhile violent criminal nigger families are getting $5 million payouts
>>72422646
Black drives dont matter.
>>72421691
You can't prove the existence of hidden paritions.
You can reasonable prove the existence of encrypted partitions because the data on the drive is scrambled to be essentially random, so it's obvious either there's a container there or it has been wiped and replaced with random data.
However hidden partitions looks mathematically exactly like regular ones, so there's no way to prove the existence of a hidden partition. The compelling of passwords for known partitions is predicated on having evidence there is an encrypted partition, the same cannot be said for hidden partitions.
Hidden partitions are present inside the empty space of other encrypted containers, but empty space in these encrypted file systems is encrypted equally as randomly as "normal" space, so when there is no container mounted, or when the outer container is mounted there's never any evidence of hidden partitions.
This is the whole point of hidden partitions, they offer you plausible deniability, there could be a hidden partition there but when done right there's no actual evidence one exists.
To my knowledge hidden partitions have not yet been tested in a court anywhere in the world, so there's no precedent for it, I think judges in most places in the world are going to have a hard time putting someone in jail when there's no evidence a hidden partition exists, and every bit of evidence to show they've complied with the courts demands.
NEW THREAD
>>72422259 →
>>72422259 →
>>72422259 →
>>72422796
There are only about a half dozen US cases on encryption at all. It doesn't come up often. If they have enough other evidence, they convict with that.
If they can scrounge up a password, or you used a shitty encryption, they'll break into themselves.
At least one case where they had won the appeal, a co-defendant gave up the password anyway, so the ruling wasn't enforced.
So far, these cases have turned on whether or not the government can show that the files exist. If it can, it wins. I'm not how the specifics of the tech would play out from there.
>>72419656
Whether you like it or not, CP laws (in)directly protect children by preventing the expansion of the CP market, which subsequently prevents the creation of even more CP demand.
>the punishment for CP is OFTEN harsher than brutally raping a child
>to justify this, I will cherrypick ONE (1) anecdote from fucking ARIZONA state law
i can't even
>>72418808
It's easy to trample the rights of the weak
Not so much the rich and powerful
>>72418637
Depends on where you live. Big city police departments have very skilled cyber crime units. Small town sheriffs? Not so much. They're basically just stealing your hard drive and searching for images or sending it off to someone that knows how.
>>72422079
>Sorry Ahmed but kiddiediddlers don't belong in first world societies
I agree, but a first world society allows for privacy of data to individuals, people have a reasonable right to a private life outside of the eyes of the government, it's part of what it means to be free. Ahmed and his kiddie fiddler buddies aren't worth losing our personal freedoms over.
>>72422131
>Obstruction of justice into the jail you go. This is exact problem of such legislations and rulings.
That has to actually be demonstrated to be true, they can't rule on that without providing evidence, again that's the whole point of hidden partitions, they're impossible to prove. You cannot prove that someone is obstructing justice when you have no evidence there's a hidden container.
>>72422195
>Well, I suppose it's fine if you never decrypt them while using W10.
Depends on your set up, windows doesn't hook other applications to capture keystrokes so it can't capture your password. It also depends if those things are disabled (they are for me) and it depends if you've firewalled your PC, again I have, so there's no telemetry being sent to MS.
>>72417922
Of course we do. It's the fifth fucking amendment.
>>72423182
>Depends on your set up, windows doesn't hook other applications to capture keystrokes so it can't capture your password. It also depends if those things are disabled (they are for me) and it depends if you've firewalled your PC, again I have, so there's no telemetry being sent to MS.
That's assuming they don't have some other hidden means to get that data.
>>72420565
SCHRODINGERS CAT
>>72423145
Is there any evidence, or just your assertions?
>>72423469
increased demand calls for increased supply
use your brain
>>72423469
He heard it from mass media, so it must be true.
>>72423604
>free supply increases demand
>>72419129
>He encrypted it
source?
>>72423672
>free
stopped reading right there
This is the can of worms that we opened by extending laws originally intended for physical manifestations of evidence into the simulacrum of digital information.
I told you this was an endless flight of stairs bro.
>>72423777
So now we're having an epic legal battle over a man not providing the tools necessary to reassemble a series of 1's and 0's that they have every bit of access to into usable evidence.
This is a direct violation of the 5th. I don't care about "muh children." The constitution takes priority over this case.
>>72423757
Most pizza that people get caught with is freely distributed on the internet. Professional sellers-buyers very rarely get caught like that.
>>72423754
Go fuck yourself. It's not even a issue. He is not claiming otherwise. He's already passed that option.
I only raise the point because a previous case of pedo getting BTFO'd involved the pedo claiming the drives weren't his and that he didn't encrypt them.
His claim was rejected and after police cracked one they found the CP and documents confirming it belonged to the suspect.
>>72423922
Well then, you're a piece of shit fighting against the constitution. Current rulings from the federal court of appeals are that the 5th amendment doesn't apply in cases where the government can reasonably establish that the files exist.
But don't bother with evidence and actual legal rulings. There are criminals to defend!
>>72424082
>weasel statements
try again, buckaroo
>>72424175
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/An_insight_into_child_porn
>>72424135
>Current rulings from the federal court of appeals are that the 5th amendment doesn't apply in cases where the government can reasonably establish that the files exist.
If they could demonstrate that the files exist then they'd have all the evidence they need and he could invoke his right to a speedy trial.
>>72420100
The ones who whatch create the demand for the ones who produce. Your argument doesn't stand.
>>72424284
Better tell that to MAFIAA so that they stop suing people for downloading some mp3 then.
