Why don't we tax Churches/Mosques/Synagogues?
We tax everything from imports to labor to sex toys, so why not Religion?
That's what happens when you pay the $25 minimum payment for years not realizing your loan gathers $175 in compounding interest every month
We don't need loan forgiveness, we need to euthanize idiots
>>72399317
>>>Synogogues
Because they're not a business. They don't sell things, they run on donations.
You're essentially asking why don't we tax every charity, every non-profit, and every time you give a Christmas gift.
>>72399317
>tax synagogues
oy vey anuddah shoah
>Let's just tax everything. That will solve our problems.
>I took out a shitty loan
>I got a shitty degree
>I can't pay it back
Get fucked.
>>72399317
What are we taxing? Their donations?
>>72399464
I got into an argument with some dude who was complaining that he was going to end up paying more than twice his home's value in interest. People don't get that money has a time value-- a $26,400 debt outstanding for 23 fucking years is worth way more than $26,400.
>>72399317
>taxing non profit organizations
Completely retarded. Kill yourself.
>>72399317
Excellent, Comrade! I will propose this to the Supreme Soviet
>>72399317
>Taxation without Representation
Separation of Church and State.
>>72399840
The dead weight in cash and real estate property that religious institutions hold.
>what is a charity organization under the law
So now we're going to tax people's goodwill donations?
>>72400023
> Churches
> nonprofit
Pick one
>>72399567
>They don't sell things
actually they do, and they are frauds. They absolutely should be taxed.
>its society's fault if I made bad decisions
>>72401366
you really this retarded? Our congress is full of pastors.
>>72402047
> Churches
> nonprofit
> 501c3
All of the above.
>>72399317
>UNSUBSIDIZED STUDENT LOANS
>EVER
WHAT IS THIS
>>72399317
because wahsing money
>>72402047
They are non-profit. They have no shareholders or owners to pay profits.
>>72399317
We should tax them because they are faggots. Anyone who doesn't think we should tax synagogues should get off this board.
I've literally received more help from the church than government especially in rough times. I only donate $5 every Sunday and they give me free food and clothes. They even referred me to my current employer.
Now I write my church $500 check every month.
>>72402326
Yeah on paper. A fuck ton of their "donations" end up in people bank accounts or are lost in boating accidents. It's not some big conspiracy either it's a bunch of greedy locals who the community trusts. Things like
> our church needed a remodeling
> $250 for paint brushes
> $300 for ladders
Or
> the church really needed that giant Hotel suite for the convention in the next town over
> use the donations to party and drink
>>72399317
Most churches have to fight for their 501c daily. Churches loosing this status happens more often than you might imagine.
The church I go to sends a lot of stuff to homeless shelters and gives sermons to prisoners in jail. It's all tax deductible and whatnot.
I don't see how any of this is (pic related) though. It's some dyke Socialist Sanders supporter whining about how expensive her liberal arts and social science degrees are.
Because telling people to stop caring about societies problems because god will sort them all out is somehow good for society.
>>72402847
To be fair, good ladders will run that and they are way more important than good paint brushes.
>all these people defending usury
>>72402946
na fuck your church, i'd gladly file "fight daily" if it meant zero taxes.
>>72399317
>I don't understand compounding interest: the picture
>>72399317
I agree. We lose billions per year in lost revenue from not taxing religious institutions
>inb4 separation of church and state
but the fucking church doesn't stay out of politics. Case in point: Ted Cruz.
>>72399317
I'm the biggest fedora wearing antitheist atheist on this board, and know this is stupid for multiple reasons.
1.
Religion is literally what blood was shed for and fought for, why colonies and states borders were carved up and why wars were waged. People believe it tied to their very essence. It's the reason the establishent and free exersice clauses were added- as one big "truce " or cease fire to let all religions and their adherents operate freely, such that they don't restrict the rights of others . An attack on religion is no doubt going to lead to violence, insurrection, secession, emigration and chaos in general.
2.
Yes I'm aware of the influence religion, religious figures, and religious adherents have on and within government . That is different from the legal and fiduciary obligations owed to taxes entities by the tax collectors. If we tax churches mosques and synagogues, expect lobbying to increase 1000fold, politicians to run on purely religious platforms, and the separation of church and state to vanish.
3.
From an administrative standpoint,
A
the government is not really going to get too much money out of this (it's just taking more off the top)
B
It's intrusive, and requires embedded agents and investigators to determine what is and isn't an applicable religious institution, who is running underground informal churches , who is which sect, how much everyone is paying etc, much to the resentment of the citizens
>20k€ student debt
>had to pay back ~21.2k
Maybe don't be shit with your money senpai
Tax churches and charities too.
>>72402191
Church can be IN government, government can't be IN church. Get it?
>>72399317
>Student loans are traditionally 10 year loans.
>bitch willfully extended them 23+ years
>surprised when full cost exceeds more than twice the original value
You did this, Crystal
>>72399317
>only death or total disability frees you
Does it even matter if you owe student loans? Can they do anything other than annoy you with mail and phone calls?
To all the people ITT defending the tax exemption what about those ridiculous megachurchs that are blatantly run to make a profit and who's leaders wind up being millionaires, shouldn't the law maybe be tightened up to crack down on that? You shouldn't be getting rich from running a church.
>>72399317
That picture terrifies me.
>>72399317
But we do tax churches here in Germany. Maybe it's time you americans get modern.
If you want to tax religious institutions, then you have to give them right of representation.
>>72404432
I thought it was neither can be involved with the other...
>>72404489
depends from whom you got the loan
If its the gobbernment they can, and will, get their money
>>72404491
The two arguments aren't mutually exclusive. You're right, though it's a bit of an unrelated point.
>>72404491
They're scamming people yeah, but they get all their money through donations, not sales or business practices. Nobody ITT is defending usury or corruption because it isn't even happening and you can believe if there is an instance in when it does happen the Feds will be the first to know.
>>72399317
It's not Churches/Mosques/Synagogues's faults that you're a fucking dumbass that actually took out a loan just to go to school.
This is why Jews have power, because they profit from dumbfucks like you.
>>72404600
>https://www.tgm.org/mythofseparation.html
>"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Taxation is regulation and prohibition of free exercise of religion. It doesn't say religion can't be involved in politics. It says politics can't be involved in religion.
>>72399931
what about inflation? this old lady borrowed $26,000 in what must have been the 70s-80s. in fact, she borrowed much more valuable dollars than she is expected to pay back. you could literally buy a house for that money in the 70s.
>>72404032
4.
From a legal and foreign relations standpoint, IIRC currently the government, specifically the courts, recognize religions as ethereal, without headquarters or implication of clergy in crimes of members.
To avoid taxation, Episcopalians and Anglicans will claim they are beholden got the church of England, and the US government will have to take it up with the fucking Queen and Archbishop.
Catholics will do the same with Rome/Vatican City.
Muslims with Mecca.
The list goes on. Religions, institutions, and adherents would be recognized as alien to the country. Allegiances will no longer be toes to citizenship religious bases. International trade and diplomacy would be changed forever as well. The JS would be mired in international court battles with the Vatican, the UK and KSA regarding taxable status of their various religions, adherents and institutions.
5
Religious based US charities are some of the most generous in the world, and would be deeply hampered.
Churches operate under many of the same principles and subject to mushy of the same audits as other non profits do.
6
Most damningly, it would asset the dominance of Government allegiance over any other lifestyle, culture, code of conduct or thought pattern. It would be a method to control and shape the minds of citizens by reducing the real estate taken up by the State.
I bet you fags can't think 10 seconds ahead of "religion bad, muh crusades muh inquisition ".
>>72404600
Both those guys are retarded. Neither can interfere with each other, but pastors being in congress doesn't represent a religious institution receiving government representation. They are individuals.
>>72399317
>Churches/Mosques/Synagogues
1. Non-profit exercises of free speech should not be taxed. Law already exists saying that if any of these groups attempts to reap a profit, they would lose their tax-exempt status.
2. Tax-exemption incentivizes religious groups to stay out of politics. Laws already exist which strip religious organizations of tax exempt status if they attempt to directly enter politics. If you were to try and tax them, they would be entitled to representation. This would incentivize religious groups to directly enter politics, because their interests are at stake, and they now have a say in things.
You want give religious organizations an incentive to enter politics? WHY?!
>>72404432
can you fucking read posts? Cleary churches are represented in government, thus they can be taxed.
taxation is not prohibiting anything, as defined by the supreme court, hence guns are taxed.
>>72399317
When this country was built we had one clear defined reason, no taxation without representation. I'll be damned if I give the people, let alone the church of scientology, a voice in politics
>>72405059
>Cleary churches are represented in government
Individual believers are represented in government, not organizations. And why do you say "churches" when there are many other belief systems that benefit from tax-exempt status?
>>72405059
>can you fucking read posts? Cleary churches are represented in government,
Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, fag. The beliefs of particular individuals doesn't change anything since they are still doing their job and not representing and organization.
>>72399317
You should eliminate all income taxes instead
>>72403662
Ted Cruz isn't calling for a theocracy.
Ted Cruz isn't calling for the establishment of his brand of Christianity as legally recognized and the abolishment of other sects and Religions.
Ted Cruz holds many secular positions not based on or influenced by religion.
There is a HUGE difference between Carson, Cruz and Bush and people like Khameni and Khomeni.
>>72402847
>People embezzle donations
>So let's have the government embezzle it first so they don't even get the chance !
>>72402539
>We should tax local non profit political clubs as well
>They're all factors after all
>Especially those Right Wingers ;^}
Lrn2DevilsAdvocate. Use your own logic against yourself.
>>72402123
The government promising it is going to pay back holders of treasuries with extorted funds , artificially keeeping the financial system afloat, and printing money is a greater fraud than any religion.
>>72401741
>Dead weight
Churches in small countries are tourist destinations and therfore bring in more income.
Churches in large countries barely make up a percent of land owned.
As for stagnant money, Churches tend to have a significant portion go into charitable work- including rebuilding of homes after tornadoes and flooding, earthquake rescues etc.
If you want to make the argument from productivity, than you should look into the land and money non profit liberal arts universities use compared to their output.
>>72399317
>I dont understand the time value of money the post
>>72399317
Aren't federal loans forgiven after twenty years anyway? Ten, if you work public sector.
>>72399317
Let me guess:
Liberal arts degree and minimum loan payments with callous disregard for interest?
>>72405593
She obviously isn't working then. Useless degree AND lazy, no surprise there.
>>72405306
> organizations
what the fuck are you talking about, what exactly can churches not do that other organization can.
Church is just a catch all phrase for any congregational religion, which is a requirement for tax free status. You cant skype with a group every week and get it, you need people physically showing up to a place every week.
regardless all tax free status is bullshit and i'd love to see it abolished.
>>72405544
Also this.
I don't think she went into CS, CE, anything in STEM as much as it's a meme, anything useful in the Medical Field, Finance, Economics, or Econometrics.
Something is telling me it was Sociology.
>>72399317
>We tax everything from imports to labor to sex toys, so why not Religion?
Do you want religion to have more say in the gov't? If not, they shouldn't be taxed.
That shit may fly in commie countries or in sandnigger theocracies, but it won't work here.
>>72405373
You fucking retard sense when does any company or organization have representatives in the government representing them as a separate entity.
So the godless are pushing for this now, eh? They want to elevate the state above God and establish Ceasaropapism? The experiment is over. Secular democracy has failed. I no longer Identify with this society in any significant sense. I just happen to live here. The culture and values are totally alien to me.
>>72402047
Underage b& fedora detected. They don't actually have share holders.
>inb4 I don't know what a charity is
>>72405777
The Main Street Baptist Church would have to be recognized as its own legal and economic entity, lisenced recorded audited and tracked, its adherents publicly listed, and furthermore recognized as profit -making entity as opposed to a non profit (thereby blurring or erasing the line between religions and businesses, which would be a delight to liberals enraged at the JavaScript/Firefox guy and Hobby Lobby for minor actions ) and as an entity with a right to political access via direct lobbying , electioneering, and right to form its own political party.
The establishment clause would effectively be mooted. Good job.
From an administrative standpoint, of would be even more difficult to track those who go to multiple churches, or go to one but rarely, or those congregating under the radar, or those splintering and merging every week.
You're most likely going to see something like what happened during the "progressive " era. To prevent strikes and violence , Labor Unions were politically recognized entities by governments and economically recongnized entities by firms to normalize relations between the 3 parties. Unions increased in abilities rights and privileges - and many went in to establish training courses , political parties, training courses and more.
Enjoy the new Religious Union era, and the creationist schools they institute.
>>72405373
Corporations aren't actually directly represented in government but they still have to pay taxes. Why are you switching your argument? That they're charities is a perfectly fine argument that stands on it's own, why do you have to come out with this drivel?
>>72404797
Good points, I'm convinced. Maybe just property taxes.
>>72405912
>what are lobbies
I'm not even surprised you're such a dumb fedora because you can't even spell correctly. Representation isn't even the real reason non-profit organizations aren't taxed in the first place. You still have yet to argue why pastors in congress is such representation.
>>72406472
>Representation isn't even the real reason non-profit organizations aren't taxed in the first place.
So why in the hell did you even bring it up then? And having lobbyists isn't quite comparable to having your own damned personal congressman, which is what you seemed to be talking about. Also couldn't a church hire a lobbyist too? There's certainly churches out there that are rich enough and have issues they'd want to throw their weight around on (gays, creationism, abortion, etc.).
>>72406335
>Corporations aren't actually directly represented in government but they still have to pay taxes.
Citizens aren't "directly" represented in government either.
>Why are you switching your argument?
I haven't switched anything, seems like you've either mixed up ID's or you're illiterate.
>That they're charities is a perfectly fine argument that stands on it's own, why do you have to come out with this drivel?
You're implying implications here which I never made. I never said representation is the sole reason non-profits are tax exempt, but that representation should be granted if it was instated, so great job with the strawman. Quality shitposting, 'straya
>>72402578
Well done sir. Charity not hand outs.
>>72399464
we should eliminate the jew and their usury practices
>>72406335
Corporations can participate in electioneering,can give direct albeit discloable contributions to political campaigns or indirect and more concealed contributions to and through PACs, can give public endorsements (though on a practical basis typically do not), and can directly lobby.
All of those things can lead to loss of non profit status for a church.
If I had this type of debt from my education I would use my education to blow up very important buildings and I literally think that because this doesn't happen that it clearly isn't a problem, because any reasonable person that got this anally obliterated would build a bomb in response.
>>72406578
>So why in the hell did you even bring it up then?
I said it should be made if taxes were instated on non-profits, learn to read. I literally said that on my first post ITT.
>And having lobbyists isn't quite comparable to having your own damned personal congressman
Not that it's relevant because not even citizens have their own personal congressman aside from an individual being their area representative. There is no direct influence besides election because this is a republic.
> which is what you seemed to be talking about
Not even close. In fact, I was calling out the other guy on this because it seemed that is what he was implying.
>Also couldn't a church hire a lobbyist too?
It's illegal.
>borrow $26k
>make minimum payment every month for 23 years
Fuck you.
>>72399317
>good goy, we need that interest money to pay our electricity and water bill in our humble bank. The charity the church gives out for free is the real enemy, goy.
Yes the lady in the pic is dumb, but we need real talk about usury (charging interest on loans)
>but anon, that's how are (modern age) functions.
Leave 2 coins in a room overnight. You wouldn't expect a third coin to be there in the morning. Yet that is exactly what we expect with our financial system. Money can't procreate.
>but anon, interest is about paying for lender risk and incentive. You can get away with charging more in future, because there will be more wealth in the future.
That assumes there will always be progress and prosperity in the future. What if the rate of progress has diminishing economic returns and can't keep up with interest rates?
Get a loan?
Usury is nothing more than life support for a society that overdosed on prosperity. A society that couldn't chase the high, that needed more and more money to continue their unsustainable path towards destruction.
Today we need two providers with credit cards (micro usury) to sustain what was possible decades ago on a single income without loans.
We are usury junkies.
>what's the cure, anon?
We live small, difficult lives of meaning. Instead of financing trillion dollar globetrotting wars for Israel, let's just fight the people across the river for a bit and call it good. Let's trade services and goods with our neighbors. Help people in their times of need, you never know when you'll need help after all. Build a small house with your hands, don't buy a million dollar McMansion that is made out of plywood.
Money should be treated like a library book. You take it, use it, then return it. Don't make it the center of your society.
>>72406447
I'm more glad that my points got through even though my phone keyboard ducked everything up than you agreeing.
But das cool too mang.
>>72406472
The church of which said pastor is a minister if typically gets audited to hell, severs legal and administrative ties for the duration of government service, and has no lobbying rights whatsoever for greater resources .
>But he and said church share policies
I could be a member of the ACLU and NRA while simultaneously holding office. Said organizations may influence or share my view, but get no entity- specific benefit from my service, or else they will lose their status.
>>72399317
>Yfw thats Half a penny a year and 96% interest
>>72407020
>Leave 2 coins in a room overnight.
>Be desert island
>Trade in bananas
>Be limited and fixed number of bananas at any given time
>Be 3 people on island
>Jim, Tim, and Zim
Hey Tim
>Yeah Zim?
Why do we use banana as currency?
>Well you do something good, like catch fish , you get something good your one banana.
So this "something good" could be anything right? Potentially fish?
>Sure, but fish spoil more quickly and are harder to catch with our dinky fishing poles
Tim?
>Yeah Zim
How many bananas would you potentially give for fish ?
>2 bananas for 1 fish. More protein in the fish.
How about this crazy idea. You loan me your banana for the day, which would free up time and energy for me to make a fishing net. Of successful, we increase the size of the economy and get fish , is not successful, economy shrinks via WASTED banana but it was your choice
>A net? Jim won't invest, so he would get no fish but no loss of banana either, I'm in
>Be catch 100 fish with fish net
>Economy expand to include fish and banana
>Interest paid back to Tim in fish for time value of banana and for opportunity cost associated with lending it to Zim
>>72402847
>a real church and not a fake front for embezzlement
>using donations to violate the beliefs they hold sacred
gas yourself
>>72404491
That's all a matter of enforcement of laws already on the books, not adding new laws.
Were you one of those Aussies that supported the gun ban back in the 90s by chance?
There is also no law IIRC that caps the compensation an officer or employee of a non profit can receive- just the sources of said compensation.
>>72404544
And you get parties like the Christian (Ha) Democratic (Ha) Union. Even though Christian in name only, you allowed a clear political representation of a religious bloc in Germany.
>The "Make the US more like Europe " meme
As someone who loved Hungary, Croatia, Cyprus, Austria, France and Spain:
>Nothxm8
>>72405777
>You and your friends love to jet ski
>You create a jet ski club
>Anyone can join
>Several members of jet ski club want to pool their money together and buy the newest jet ski
>You want this process of pooling money to be taxed, in addition to the income tax of the multiple people earning it, and the sales tax of the jet ski itself.
You gotta think this through next time.
>>72405469
>Churches in large countries barely make up a percent of land owned.
Maybe on a national scale it would not not make much of a dent in things like the national debt or even a deficit in any given year. On the local scale though, there are a lot of megachurches that might help a town or county fill in some budget gaps. Some of the churches in the suburbs of Washington DC are obscene in size, extravagance and corruption.
>>72399317
Because then, for the 1st time ever, a kike would pay taxes to the US government.
>>72399317
Wait a minute. Let us calculate her allege rate of interest assuming it's calculated in a simple original loan*rate. That's 2% through the life of the loan, and it means she was paying monthly 118 dollars. So, how long would it take her to pay? 51 one years of never missing a single payment. Remember the median income of all college graduates is 45k.
Say she had paid, I don't know, 600 dollars per month. She would have finish paying in 4 years. Let's give her a bit more leeway. Let's say she is so bad her degree can only get her a minimum wage job and she can only afford to pay 30% of her wages towards it. Not particularly comfortable, but considering she is a minimum wage gal, she can go to a small, cheap town and get paid the same, no trouble, and live very modestly. Back to her debts. Using our conditions, she would b paying 350 dollars to her loan. How long does she take to pay it all back? 8 fucking years. Let's be more generous and only pay 200 (only slightly more the did). How long? 15 years. See the pattern here?
What's worse, we are assuming the interests are calculated from the initial value, not the remainder of what she owes (which is how these loans are calculated), meaning it would take even shorter. Exact amounts would need far more effort than the mental math I did here, but point being: she's an idiot who doesn't know how to handle her money or her time.
>>72399317
>23 fucking years
>>72410781
wonder how long it takes her to pay off a car of similiar value
>>72399464
This.
>>72399317
>200% interest
How the hell
I have no sympathy for these fucking idiots who take on financial obligations and then act like the victim when it turns out they actually have to pay back what they owe.
Admit you fucked up and your own CHOICES got you where you are, and I might actually feel sorry for you. Take control of your own fucking life and stop being such a perpetual victim for fuck sake.
>>72399931
>26k will be worth more in 23 years
Deflation very rarely happens.
>>72413412
How long before there would be enough debt to declare bankruptcy and flee to greece?
>>72399317
>What is compounding interest?
>>72413845
found the jew
>>72399317
What is "No taxation without representation" please Alex
>>72399317
>paid 32,700
>over 23 years
$118 monthly payments
make bigger payments, against the principal, get out of debt
>>72404544
You tax your own citizens and PAY churches, Hans. Maybe you should get modern? State funded religion, what the fuck, is this Saudi Arabia?
>>72413996
What is the clergy are allowed to vote and donate money to politicians.
By that retarded logic why can businesses be taxed?
>>72399464
Thats funny, because banks here make sure you are capable of repaying a debt within a time-frame and dont just create a wage-slave.
No wonder the US is going down-hill.
>>72399317
We're way overtaxed as it is
We need to tax fewer institutions, not more
>>72414406
The onus is on YOU to make good decisions, not have the bank or the government or whoever else make them for you
Caveat emptor
>>72404796
Inflation helps her. It's the only thing that will.
>pay less than interest
>wonder why debt isn't going away
I bet she didn't study STEM or business.
>>72399317
Your picture fucking triggered me because I've tried to get total disability to make them go away.
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION
>>72399317
Fair enough, then the church's can say, good Christians all vote republican, all democrats are excommunicated and damned to hell for all eternity. You are ether part of the political scene or not.
>take out loan you can't pay off
>wttffff??? y cant i pay off??!!? someone pay off 4 me plssss??
lol
>>72399317
The only significant taxes they would pay that they don't already are property taxes. Not that they would because they could easily file for 501(c)3 status as non-profit groups, which have the exact same tax benefits as churches.
How do student loans work in America? Here they get wiped if you don't pay them back after 30 years or something.
>>72399317
not realising that an atheist society is creating the vast majority of the problems we discuss on this board without a solution every day.
>degeneracy, sluts, teen pregnancy's
Didn't see a whole lot of freebleeding and drunken sluts tossing out rape claims when everybody went to church
>divorces, single moms
People didn't divorce that often when god was watching
>furfags, transgenders, homosexual of the most flaming kind
Do i need to explain?
>decline in birth rate and average below replacement lvl for whites
Christans have higher birth rates than atheists and agnosts.
>all the liberal crap
Atheists vote democrat 7 out of 10 times
>>72406788
this desu
letting the jew exist in our countries was a mistake
>>72399317
No taxation without representation.
>>72414406
How many aircraft carriers does Auatria have again?
