Capitalism and individualism have an atomizing effect on people, setting neighbour against neighbour in order to generate profit for globalist corporations.
Socialism and nationalism naturally support each other, encouraging service towards your countrymen and discouraging parasitism.
pic almost related
>is left
>is against atomizing and destruction of Person and culture
Oh boy
>>72348767
left=/=postmodernist
>>72350474
you might as well call yourself a nationalist at that point
>>72348041
Hi
>>72348041
I would be a left nationalist in a homogenous society
>>72348041
You're right about capitalism, but you've reached the wrong conclusion. That's why I'm a traditionalist and communitarian.
I am absolutely not a socialist, since it is fundamentally materialist and internationalist. Under socialism, just like capitalism, all that matters is productivity, human beings are seen as interchangeable economic units with no value beyond what how much they can produce.
>>72348041
Obvious K*rd is obvious. About Ocalan's libertarian socialism; there're a lot of documents in the net, the OP is too lazy to post them.
>>72348041
Left-nationalist is a contradiction. Leftcucks are internationalist egalitarian nation wrecking cucks and should be gassed
>>72348041
>ocialism and nationalism naturally support each other, e
So National Socialism? Wow i wonder why no one has ever tried that before, i bet it work would really well!
>>72351419
National Socialism is not left wing it is radical centrism and common sense.
>>72348041
The forces of capitalism underpin the entire globalist movement. Big multinationals don't see culture, community or heritage, they just see a world full of potential labourers and consumers.
From this perspective, what are Western employees but overpaid and spoilt? Why should companies pay a Briton or an American to do a job that an Indian or Somali would do for a tenth of the cost, and with longer hours?
So they support every open borders movement going. They undermine the foundations of the nationstate, and call for 'diversity', knowing that a single amorphous population without race or creed is the maximal condition for making profit.
You can't be a nationalist if you're not also a socialist, because global capitalism is nationalism's greatest enemy.
>>72348041
National Commie here. Voting Trump. The only pro-American worker candidate.
>>72351400
Maybe that's true if all you know of the left is tumblreddit
>>72351214
This wasn't supposed to be an Ocalan thread, you can post yourself.
>>72350844
That's an issue of 'resolution' as it were. I think you have a more developed terminology.
That said I believe in internationalism, in it's opposition to globalism. Isolationism is naive. I wish I could find an essay called 'Internationalism and Nationalism' by Dag Hammarskjold to post here but I seem to have lost it.
>>72351400
That's Trotsky's faggotry and he got an axe in the head for it. China, Stalin's USSR, North Korea were/are extremely nationalist.
>>72348041
>Socialism and nationalism naturally support each other, encouraging service towards your countrymen and discouraging parasitism.
Then why is it that the more nationalist a country is the more parasites emerge?
>>72351733
>So they support every open borders movement going
But right wing parties that represent business interests are generally against open borders but left wing parties that represent kikes and the intelligentsia are pro open borders.
You leftcuck marxist kike shills don't even make sense
>>72351874
>were/are extremely nationalist
No they are not.
>>72351804
Trump is a device for ruining the GOP nomineés chances, he means to lose to Clinton. They go to the same parties.
He will make himself unelectable once he gets the nomination. Or he will run independent, splitting the GOP vote.
>>72350474
Post-modernism is necessarily left but the left is not necessarily post-modern
>>72351804
>the left is tumblreddit
It is you subhuman shitskin cuck. Seriously why are so many leftcuck marxist kikes pretending to be "redpilled" to fit in with /pol/?
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
>The bourgeois sees his wife a mere instrument of production. He hears that the instruments of production are to be exploited in common, and, naturally, can come to.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
>Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists.
>On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution.
>The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.
Reporting
>>72351868
Actually, Ocalan rejects a country based on nationalism. He's an old marxist and structured pkk on stalinist structure. PKK still retains that marxist-leninist-stalinist view and occasionally rejects Ocalan's revisionism.
>>72352204
this does not contradict my statement
>>72348041
>OP pic
Dude i love scatman john!!
>>72352993
>Prosopagnosia
![3be[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Zrr8kWq.jpg "3be[1].jpg")
>>72352296
>shitskin cuck
You're just as brown and sandy as he is, chaim.
>>72352189
If that was his aim, he needn't have run to begin with. The GOP have made an abysmal showing this year aside from him.
>>72352296
>First argument is against women working
>Second seems to be about the breakup of estates and inheritances moreso than cultural subversion
Doesn't seem like your typical SJW rhetoric to me. And even then, one need not agree with everything Marx says. Stalin certainly didn't. At one point, he was very pro-family and encouraged women to stay at home and raise children.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/subject/women/cccp.htm
>The Soviet State assigns enormous funds to aid mothers with large families and unmarried mothers: 2,500,000 mothers have been awarded the Order "Motherhood Glory" and the "Motherhood Medal". The title "Mother Heroine" has been conferred on 28,500 women.
>>72353175
Fuck off you autistic cringy marxist kike
>>72353281
Schh!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT0yoo9B2Bc
>>72353281
PAY
DEBT
>>72350722
Hey
>>72348041
>that awkward moment when you realize people are more altruistic the more capitalist their country is
>>72353248
>If that was his aim, he needn't have run to begin with. The GOP have made an abysmal showing this year aside from him.
Just wait and you'll see.
>>72353819
Like Israel?
>>72351400
>all true Scotsmen
Yes, somewhat socialist and unapologetic nationalist. I view taxes as a necessary evil and I do appreciate a moderately big public sector. And we need collectivism for our survival. I place racial survival as the highest ideal, just like the Jews. We're in good company.
>>72348041
How can you justify being a nationalist if you think everyone deserves equal treatment?
Just seems at odds with the whole ethos of socialism.
Sure, nations might be an intermediate step, but I can't think of a socialist utopia that would have more than one government in the world.
>>72353819
Why do you assume I care about altruism?
>>72352603
I know but my statement is more flashy and fabulous
>>72352004
Ebin red herring
>>72354014
I think industry should abide under a functioning democracy, not be exempt by it.
>everyone deserves equal treatment?
That's very vague, what does that even mean?
your a dorable
>>72352296
Marriage then meant something different. Back in 1850 it was actually a mostly financial arrangement. Marx had nothing against nuclear/extended family relationships based on mutual affection.
The Peril of Prussianism (1917)
"It has been well said that the German autocracy strives to govern so well that the people will have no desire to govern themselves."
Maybe if governmental untermenschen weren't so fucking worthless, state run (socialistic) services would fucking work fine.
Most retards on /pol/ don't even know what nationalism actually is. It's a completely bogus spook of an idea based on a nebulous idea of culture and a western European theory of the state.
The thing is all good statesmen and philosophers (from Plato to Schmitt) know that the state is established through a "noble lie", there is a lie about the distant the past, a lie about what is the present, and a lie about what the future will be. This "lie" has nothing to do with culture, it's quite simply enforced by the upper hierarchical caste through "soft power" (education,propaganda, institutions etc.)
What a people like Ocalan are saying is that a people don't need the state to define themselves or their culture, because the state benefits only a select few in the rulling class of capitalists and bureaucrats. The state is the "coldest" of things as Nietzsche said, because it is devoid of any culture other than bureaucracy and a ruling mandarin caste.
Most right wingers (including the alt-right) therefore are complete boot lickers and cucks for the ruling caste and prefer to suck up to them than rule themselves, so they attach themselves into a politics of resentment against either oppressed minorities or those who are even "lesser" in stature than them, such as the working class.
Of course there are good right wingers that understand that distinction like De Benoist,Ernst Jünger,Peter Sloterdijk, Alain Soral etc.
pic related: scum like Bernard Henry Levy thrive perfectly in nation that fights the Muslims on cultural issues, but ignores the Anglo-Zionist regime sucking them dry of their sovereignty.
>>72348041
>left nationalist
>swedecuck
of course its a swedenigger
go back to your cuckshed, you are not welcome here.
>>72354712
Have you worked in private sector? It's a total frat party.
Public sector is infinitely more competent despite admittedly being crimped by fuckstick politicians on a more frequent basis.
>>72354712
Any socialism that's not adequately against state Mandarinism is virtually worthless.
>>72353819
Altruism is worthless as a value if the averages persons material needs are not satisfied through social management. Really a socialism stops the need or the hypocritical need to be altruistic because it removes the Christcuck ideal of guilt that thrives in Feudalism and Capitalism.
>>72355085
>This "lie" has nothing to do with culture
Well that's the thing about culture. You lie enough about it and eventually, it becomes reality. You have your beliefs about what the United States is, and some are probably true, just as I associate certain things with Greece, some of which are probably true.
And what can we even have as an alternative? Can a truly organized society exist without a state holding it together in this day and age? If so, how does it maintain the infrastructure that we have come to rely on?
>in nation that fights the Muslims on cultural issues, but ignores the Anglo-Zionist regime sucking them dry of their sovereignty.
Truly, is there any nation that is actively against both Muslims and Zionists? It is sad that we pick sides in this war between two contemptible groups of people.
>>72352296
The family is a complete retarded economic unit, you are probably a golden downer, that thinks it's protected by the Holy church or some shit.
The nuclear bourgeois family in Greece is probably only a few decades old, that was established only after the Greek civil war.
I was but then I woke up and realized left nationalism is a meme
>>72356155
>And what can we even have as an alternative? Can a truly organized society exist without a state holding it together in this day and age? If so, how does it maintain the infrastructure that we have come to rely on?
The Kurds established an international entity in Rojava that was born out of the ashes of Assad's Syria. Really if you look what they are doing there, including the self management and the new conception of citizenship they are building, they are in fact following Ocalan's instructions to the word.
I don't know what kind of apparatuses will result from it, but on thing is certain, the nation-state is almost certainly dying, as all power has been removed through it with the process of globalization.
>>72348041
Hitler would be proud.
>>72355085
>What a people like Ocalan are saying is that a people don't need the state to define themselves or their culture
>It's a completely bogus spook of an idea based on a nebulous idea of culture and a western European theory of the state.
Isn't nationalism definable as whatever cohesion there is that enables a people to function without a state. The hallmark of societies where nationalism is lacking is bad citizenship, leads to alienation from the government of land and resources.
Nationalism then is good citizenship, allowing a people to govern themselves. I could care less if you want to stipulate that this entails an elimination of 'the state'.
>>72356767
put your back into it hitler!
>>72352603
hes a leaf, it can't be helped that hes stupid
>>72356499
>but on thing is certain, the nation-state is almost certainly dying, as all power has been removed through it with the process of globalization.
I disagree. I think people are aware of this and actively trying to reverse it. That's why we have leaders like Trump, Farage, Le Pen, Orban, etc. all getting more support by the day. Furthermore, they look to countries like Japan, which has been largely resistant to globalism insofar as subversion of cultural identity, and see the power that these nations still hold, that they are still growing in productivity and GDP per capita despite a shrinking population where completely disorganized countries such as those in Africa are weak and ineffectual.
>>72356767
http://youtu.be/6auk1TkGtVQ
Adolf
>>72352603
Canada's nickname was "canuck" before cucck was ever a meme
Always disregard
>>72356499
So what do you mean that the difference is between a 'self-managing international entity' and a 'nation-state'?
Is it really a distinction in principle or just in efficacy?
>>72357609
>Is it really a distinction in principle or just in efficacy?
I believe it's a distinction of principle, really the notion of the state has been exhausted, everything has been tried and nothing worked Fascism, Leninism, Keynesianism, yet all of them were eventually surpassed by global Capitalism.
Real civic nationalism should not be tied to an abstact idea of what a nation is, but through an expansion of a citizens powers which are the privileges of self-rule and judgement.
I think De Benoist says it best:
>"What the ND wants is a federal Europe, founded on the principle of subsidiarity and participatory democracy at every level, where the political clearly predominates over the economic, where the financial markets do not rule everything, and where commercial and merchant values are put back in their proper place"
>>72358156
Then why would a federal Europe be preferable to a con-federal one, it seems almost impossible to retain 'participatory democracy' at the highest level of government. Won't the power just creep back to Brussels?
Reporting in
>>72358156
What I mean is:
How can you solve a problem (the notion of a state being rotten) by only rescaling it?
USA is a federal system, I don't look at USA as a model society.
>>72359267
The EU was founded by corporations and large businesses. The problem with the EU is who has the power, which are bureaucrats and technocrats. There is nothing wrong per se about the idea of a federal Europe. The only way to stop too much power being accumulated by one nation was to introduce checks and balances not only based on a fiscal policy, but also a more democratic political system. That would mean a transformation of what "government" means to people.
