Theists, please give one (1) argument why "god" exists. Aditionally, please tell me why your "god" does exist, while all others do not.
Pic unrelated.
>>72214649
Because this book said so
>the universe came into being from nothing
this is what atheists ACTUALLY believe
>>72214649
How can women even compete?
>>72214844
And can you prove otherwise with credible evidence?
> euphoria meme
Kalaam Cosmological Argument you nigger look it up
>>72214844
About as believable as a magical being randomly deciding to create something out of nothing
Who is this fluid druid?
>>72214952
it's taylor swift bro
>>72214844
>an imaginable man feels so bored that he suddenly decided to create an universe
Ok buddy. Then why does God exist before the creation? God has his own universe? We're just a huge sandbox he's playing with?
>>72214649
There is one supreme being and every other version of God is merely a different interpretation of this same being
>>72214844
You mean theists. Theists are the ones who believe that the universe was made out of nothing.
>>72214999
>man
atheists cannot comprehend anything beyond their own worldview
God is all knowing, all powerful.
That's why he gave his message to just one prophet and told him to spread it around the world.
Telling each person directly would be too much work for god.
>>72214999
Checked
>>72214649
holy shit i would totaly destroy her ass
>>72215098
How do we know this hypothetical god exists other than a book that is thousands of years old and has no credible sources. Religion is comparable to living in the same universe as your favorite novel. It's so accepted because so many people do it.
>>72215048
Came into being and "made out of" are two completely different concepts.
>>72215202
>her
>>72215248
if its a man its even better.
>>72214649
sage if replying, don't post images
>>72215227
Logic literally dictates that universe had an architect.
>>72215319
Who is this architect? How do we know he exists?
>>72214899
>>72214948
>>72214999
>prove something unproveable
>I win this argument because I asked you to prove it first
Literally every atheist has extreme autism
>>72215227
>theism is solely composed of monotheist abrahamic beliefs
Die!
>>72215395
It can't be conclusively proven or disproven, so it's a matter of believing or not
>>72214649
There is no physical evidence to support the existence of any god, that said there is also no physical evidence that disproves the existence of any god.
Welcome to life kiddo, where there are no answers to many questions.
Reminder that if you don't know who somik chan is, you're a newfaggot and need to leave.
>Welcome to life kiddo
>>72215417
We do win because atheists don't actively deny the existence of a god we just simply don't believe in a higher power.
>>72215515
Why would the people who wrote the books of the bible have gone through what they did if there was no god? :^)
>>72215417
>this is what atheists ACTUALLY believe
>I win this argument because I asked you to prove it first
>Literally every atheist has extreme autism
>>72215395
An alien at a computer. We are a simulation. The more you think about it the more obvious it gets.
Ontological argument
>>72215319
What if an architect is irrevocably contingent upon logic to be ontologically actual?
What if the Word is above God?
>>72215582
You're a bad troll, New Zealand you'll never be like your older handsomer brother Australia. Go run along and play with Canada in the sandbox.
>>72214649
the mask at the edge of reality exist because reasons idk
its real because space is pouring out of itself and there isnt a proper explanation as to how you have infinity+1 when a finite amount of energy was ever in the big bang so whats driving the expansion
every god damned explanation scientist give is half assed and relies on fairy magic math
if i said the mask at the edge of reality simply wills it and hes got a sense of humor that would make some serial killers seem tame you might get the point. little things crawling about his master work wont survive as objects get flung from their orbits or galaxies collide
>>72215637
There are basic thermodynamic laws, which are independent of the mechanics of the universe, that rule this out.
>>72215640
copypasta now
By definition, God is a being than which none greater can be imagined.
A being that necessarily exists in reality is greater than a being that does not necessarily exist.
Thus, by definition, if God exists as an idea in the mind but does not necessarily exist in reality, then we can imagine something that is greater than God.
But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God.
Thus, if God exists in the mind as an idea, then God necessarily exists in reality.
God exists in the mind as an idea.
Therefore, God necessarily exists in reality
>>72215515
>being this plebby
Thats not how science works friend.
You make a claim, you back it up.
>there is a god
Thats a claim
>heres the evidence
Thats the evidence
Since god cant be proven, there is no god UNTIL there is evidence, which is called a "paradigm shift".
Grow up and get an education please.
>>72214844
Nobody says that, though. The universe coming from nothing is a theory from the early 20th century
>>72214649
god, or "creator" can be said to be the unknown force/energy from what everything we know came to be in this version of the reality.
Theistic or atheistic view, there had to be something else existing in another plane of existence, where the energy has originated from. That being said, it isn't impossible that our own universe wouldn't have taken part in creating the other plane, that was needed in the creation of our own - just because time isn't linear and not everything follows rules of high school textbook physics.
In the end, both views do share the exact same dilemmas of creation / beginning of time. If you call it big bang or god or whatever, it doesn't make any difference and arguing over it is just silly.
tl;dr: Life is meaningless, we all are going to die without making any impact on anything. Death in inevitable.
>>72215227
> His loyal servants decide to purge the world of witches
> This day we are witch free
Check fucking mate
>>72215701
Wut. Our universe IS the simulation. The operator exists in another plane entirely, with its own set of laws
It's simple, Father is your Consciousness, Son is your Reason, and Holy Spirit is their dynamics. Satan is your animal part. You have nothing except for this in your life.
>>72215417
>I'm going to force everyone to the way my imaginary friend says they should.
>I don't have to prove he exists though.
>And you'll go to hell if you disagree with me
And you call atheists autistic
>>72215227
>being this mad
At what point does the probability of a creator become more likely than the probability of a spontaneous universe? Consider just how intricate the world is and how apparently lucky we are to even exist in your answer
>>72214844
unrelated to OP's question
>>72215823
How am I forcing anything and why would I have to prove anything to a slant eyed faggot?
>>72215894
It was completely related. Shit argument mind you, but still related.
>>72214649
Weak minded people is the proof that God exists.
not a single one of you has refuted the ontological argument
>>72215880
Never, because uncovering a multiverse with 10^500 "universes" will likely never happen
>>72214649
1) Theists don't know what an argument is, nor they are capable of logical thinking, if they were , they would not be theists
2) There are 3000+ gods worshiped on this earth, all claiming that theirs and theirs only is the truth, while having no evidence what-so-ever. If there was an evidence, the religion with evidence would take over.
You will be just disappointed in any attempts to discuss with theists - they are incapable of doing so by definition. Pic kinda related.
>>72215894
why?
>>72214844
While bible is the only source of objective truth in this world...
>>72214649
Atheism is clearly a symptom of autism.
Unable to feel the glory of god, experience true love and forgiveness, recognise the beauty of a sunset.
These things aren't logical, they require faith and feeling. Are you unable to experience these things at all or are you too busy counting in 4's in your head?
What's it like essentially being soulless?
Can you guys post more Somik while you're having this intelligent cosmological discussion on this nazi forum for people that masturbate to anime?
>>72216160
God didn't need to say this shit, he said it in simple worlds and everything was done automatically
>>72216160
MUH BIBLE
MUH THE ONLY SPIRITUAL THINKING I CAN COMPREHEND IS THE BIBLE
HOLY SHIT ATHEISTS ARE BRAIN DEAD IMBECIELS
>>72216094
> Muh I need evidence
Autist.
If someone said the Grand Canyon was beautiful would you demand unobtainable evidence then?
>>72216037
> "ontological argument"
> totally proves that my super-special snowflake god that likes fancy clothes, doesn't like masturbation and his killing himself for things he himself did is the one and only true god....
jeeesus, these christcucks...
>>72216199
Fuck off, german rape baby
>>72216198
>Atheism is clearly a symptom of autism.
this
>>72216309
Which is it? Does a God not exist, or does the Christian God not exist? You're moving the goalposts.
>>72216261
Yeah, I totally forgot that god runs autocorrect... I mean, how stupid a person have to be to actually believe what you just said.
>>72216305
No, but if someone said that there is great invisible being that will punish me eternally for touching my penis I would. After a long, heartfelt laugh.
>>72216267
I have only disdain for plebians like you.
>>72215938
how is it more plausible that an omnipotent omniscient being came into existence and then made the universe than the universe just came into existence. The simpler, less complicated explanation is the more plausible surely. If you allow for anything more elaborate there are any number of variations and possibilities as to what preceeded the genesis of the universe, and yet you choose the hyperintelligent all powerful being called Jehovah explanation. Why?
>>72215048
Heretic
>>72214649
The universe is a social experiment.
We were created iut of curiosity, at least that's why I think God has created it and occasionally interfered for the lulz.
>>72215681
>every god damned explanation scientist give is half assed and relies on fairy magic math
That's not how mathematics work.
>>72214649
all the same god
/thread
>>72216421
God does not exist in a sense most people comprehend this word.
There can be ontological god, but if there is it is a force of nature, demiurge, impersonal, unthinking, emotionless. But calling such a thing a god is false. You could as well call it a Force. Or whatever, cause it has nothing to do with any god.
Also, OP asked for "god" in general and then for your god.
So, there is a slim (like 0,00000000000000000000000001) chance that there might be a primordial force that there can be nothing greater, but calling this force a god is misleading.
Also, YOUR god doesn't exist at all and your religion and gods of all religions are lies and deception and nothing else.
>>72216198
The perceptions of beauty and love are totally logical, dude. They are literally visible in fMRI.
Nothing mystical about getting a boner either.
>>72216470
are you fucking retarded? many prophesies have come true from the bible and the wisdom and knowledge in there on the world is the most redpill you can find. quit denying the evidence god placed in front of you since the day you were born
>>72214649
somi pls go
>>72214803
First post best post
Much proves
Science can never disprove god or prove god.
Watch these and learn
https://youtu.be/BXlBCZ_5OYw
https://youtu.be/yaGwF7A79_w
>>72216757
Now why does seeing the sun rise on the Lord's world appear beautiful? The MRI readings you see are the end results.
Meditation and Prayer are visible under MRI also.
Checkmate atheists.
Also it's kind of tragic that you automatically hear love and think immediately of sexual arousal.
>>72216829
Where is the conversion of russia though?
Did holy virgin mary lied about it?
You are pathetic... "prophesies"... you really want to be a wizerd, right?
>>72216666
So I can worship Satan or be a terrorist and still get to heaven?
You are everything wrong with christcucks
>>72216672
Keep drinking from the cup you've started. The truth waits after the last drop, at the bottom.
>>72216470
Or that there are a bunch of universes that just oscillate from Big Bang to massively condensed black holes, exploding and throwing matter around everywhere, gravity bringing collections of matter from different "universes" to reform Into black holes
How am I the only one who thought of this?
>>72214649
Everyday coincidences
no, wait...
>>72216829
So your answer is - 'because it says so in the bible, which I believe to be a flawless text because of the prophecies contained therein that have come true' but you had to be a cunt about it.
What prophecies?
>>72215614
>Why would the communists have gone through what they did if communist was not the best system for society ?
*clap clap*
Congratulations.
You just discovered the power of abstract ideas on humankind.
>>72216938
>not getting all turned on when witnessing the glory of Lord's creation
>not feeling his warm salvation all over your body
>not reaching the climax with not only your soul but also your body and crying Hosanna as the Creator fills you with love
>>72216936
>Nothing can prove or disprove God
FTFY friendo
>>72214844
well the universe wasn't created by a white male with beard who sits in the skies either
>>72216938
>Meditation and Prayer are visible under MRI also.
So is schizophrenia.
And guess what? They look identical
Checkmate, schizophrenics
>>72214844
>a magical being created by nothing created the universe
This is what creationists ACTUALLY believe
>>72217141
>>72217141
big crunch cycle m9
>they still haven't accepted the fact that we are living in a simulation and there is no God
The most simple explanation is that nothing exists. Solipsism is the ultimate red pill.
>>72217586
BUT WHO'S RUNNING THE SIMULATION?
>>72217231
Man could find god if we searched for something outside nature
>>72217308
So why do you accept that one is real and not the other?
Sounds like you're letting your own biases interfere with your belief in science.
>>72217476
Except that doesn't even factor in the possibility of other "universes" so they ruled it out as a possibility for ours as soon as they saw there wasn't enough matter to counteract the force of the universe expanding and actually bring everything together again.
But why couldn't there be other "universes", collections of matter originating from other big bangs, that could throw some matter our way, or ours to another
>>72217694
Nice literal wordplay friend thanks for admitting I'm right
>>72217693
Another simulation, which is itself a simulation and so on. Depends what you define as a "God" i guess but chances are they are simulating themselves so we are the Gods.
>>72217679
But it does exist.
>being christian unironically
Holy shit guys, are you for real?
>>72217708
Huh? Schizophrenia is a real disease. Religion is also a real disease, apparently
>>72217693
Xuan438, a 478 cycles old student in ZDqzdoqidsgry doing that as a school project.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ1aXeX-0uo
>>72215792
Thermodynamic laws don't care about the mechanical laws of a universe.
>>72217850
Are you sure? Can you prove that the material world exists? Or do you just think it exists?
>>72217819
That's fucked up.
>>72218035
Don't worry though there is also a chance that we will never be able to accurately simulate a universe which means that our universe can not be a simulation.
>>72214649
coz ya gutta have faith, faith, faith
>>72218123
What if God accidentally retroactively created himself?
God is the same for all, there are no other gods
>>72218177
That would be magic and wouldn't be possible desu
Atheism and Religion are both irrational
The most rational explanation is Deism
>>72214649
This post is more of a /b/ than /pol/.
>>72217926
If the majority of the world are religious then it strikes me that the non-religious are the ones with faulty reduced brain function
>he fell for the only one religion can be true therefore all religions can't be true meme
all religions point to the same whole, divine consciousness infused in all the universe. atheism is literally autism you stupid fuck
>>72218380
Deism is just as irrational as religion. The existence of a God is itself irrational
I dont understand the "universe can't come from nothing argument" and why God doesn't fit that same rule.
If God doesn't need a first cause, then why should nature?
>>72218502
Do have even a shred of evidence for that claim
>>72215319
Yet the majority of the worlds greatest minds logically concluded that an archetictt is not needed.
Even if an architect was necessary, there is simply no proof that your version of that architect is correct. It could have been the thousands of others versions throughout mans history. Maybe even Allah.
>>72218502
You are the only autist here, people try to communicate by rationnal argument and you just answer "NO IT IS THE MAGIC OLD GUY IN THE SKY !".
>>72218502
Jokes on you, Satanism points to an orgiastic carnality infused in all our buttholes.
>>72215319
"Architect" is a human concept, just like god.
>>72218504
The existence of some sort of god or transcendent force that created the universe is entirely rational, religion is not
Try reading Thomas Aquinas. I won't explain his points here since this his work is a fundamental part of western thought, but his arguments show why atheism is utterly irrational
>>72218746
Really the most ignorant and autist claim is to know anything about the beginning of the universe. Especially when claimed by someone who doesn't know the first thing about the nature of the universe
Are you all fucking retarded?
Why is there even a discussion?
God doesn't exist, period.
>>72218612
you need to practice meditation. go on hikes. you'll get it eventually. godspeed anon
>>72218849
No any greater force is completely irrational. There are billions of planets in our galaxy alone and lots of them might even be potentially habitable to human life. Yet we are here. No God or creator would go through all that work to pick just one planet
>>72218612
>i base my world view exclusively on peer reviewed journals
kek
They cant
Faith isnt rational logically but it comforts many who would be worse off not believing or being kept in line by dogma. Many of the most intelligent people in Europe were associated with the church as it gave them power.
>>72218919
You can just say that you don't. That's fine. Just admit you don't know friend. No one else knows either so no judgement.
>>72219034
You too friend. Also i also spend a lot of time thinking about the philosophy of a god myself, it's rather interesting. But anyone who claims to have the objective truth in the matter is either a retard, a swindler or just plain crazy.
>>72219026
Its likely that we aren't the center of creation to begin with, a side show at best
There is also no reason to believe that whatever created the universe stuck around or only created this one
Your thinking of yourself much to highly when there is no evidence for humanity having such an important role
>>72214649
Tips
There's your argument
>>72219231
Why would we need such a God? The geometry of our universe potentially allows for creation of something from nothing
Why would a sentient God create a universe and spend billions of years waiting for life to form.
If time is irrelevant to a God, and the billions years were nothing to it, then why have them at all.
I guess that's what Last Thursdayism is broadly about.
>>72219337
We don't need this god, therefore deism
>The geometry of our universe potentially allows for creation of something from nothing
Atheists love to say this but they can never back it up with anything
>>72214649
sweating man dot jay peg
>>72214649
>this has a penis
>>72214952
Charlie Kyrne
>>72219545
Lawrence krauss and hawking have theorized this. It's not a definitive answer but it is a potential possibility with just as much likelihood as a creator
>>72219684
post dick
>>72219714
What. The. Fuck. Well I guess I'm gay now. Thanks pol
>>72214844
How did your god come into being then?
>tips fedora
>sheaths katana
>>72219545
>>72219900
There's a lecture by Krauss where he shows the evidence for particles popping into and out of existence in what was otherwise empty space.
It's called "A Universe from Nothing" and it's pretty good.
Science also says there are colors we can't see or comprehend but have no proof, faith!
>>72219931
pain in the ass to change ips
wait for aussie bros
>>72219972
>attracted to femininity
>gay
if you like
>>72214649
god sake, cant belive this rly got a penis
why let you happen things like this GOD ?
>>72214649
I cannot prove that God is real
But i know him to be that is why its called
Faith
You cannot prove God isnt real
I would rather have my faith in the eternal glory of our great God and live my life morally by his divine laws and be rewarded with salvation in the after life then deny him and burn because bill nye the science guy told me to
Only an idiot would deny and mock God risking damnation based off the words of government paid labcoats and the cheap thrill of being edgy
I know God to be real i can sense the holy spirit wheni pray,and well maybe you cannot or will not allow your self to saved and brought to the kingdom of heaven after your death i sure will
>>72214649
DNA. It's waaaaay too fucking complicated to have come out of anything that wasn't designed
>>72214649
Who is this Semen Demon? I'd drink her bathwater.... Hnnnnng!
>>72220053
>everyone else on earth probably sees colors completely different than you do
>there are colors you will never see in your entire life
>>72220192
>her
I've got some bad news for you.
>>72214649
Evidence is only as good as your premise. Unfortunately, no school of thought has a good enough premise for "the beggining." I don't think a good premise will ever exist. That being said, it's made worse by people who are really into religion or science. It's essentially masturbation.
>not believing in the jew trilogy
>>72220183
Yes and the human eye is obviously designed
And don't forget the banana, the atheist's worst nightmare!
>>72220175
You dont know him to be real you have faith you hope he's real. And when you pray you're not feeling God what you're feeling is your priests dick going 6 inches into your theistic asshole
That girl is beautiful I am in love.
Anyone know her name?
>>72220284
But masturbation is the prelude to many wonderful things.
>>72220175
>muh internal brain experiences are from an outside source
Human beings are so full of themselves
>>72220333
Eyes are easy to explain, but fucking nobody knows where DNA came from
>>72215614
Why would jews make up the holocaust while it never happened :^)
>>72220454
DNA has not always been as complicated as it is today.
Just like the eye
>>72219972
>>72220110
>>72220136
>>72220248
She has been posted on 4chan for many years now and people still believe the shoops. There's little proof she actually is a trap. She's probably just a cute girl who wants to ride on trap fetish wave on the internet.
>>72214649
Cuz deus vult
>>72220344
Like i said edgy heretic
When you deny God what your feeling is not logic
Its Bill Nyes 3 inch cock going into your asshole which has all ready been penetrated by bananas during the formal amazing atheist ritual
>>72220558
Pic related. Sorry to disappoint you closetfags.
>>72220448
>Muh i know what other people have experienced even though i have never even seen them
Humans are so full of themselves
>>72220533
Proof?
>>72214649
Le personal god meme.
>>72214948
>implying the godhead is a being
It all depends on how you quantify God. I tend to believe that God and nature are one in the same and we all know that nature exists in many forms therefore God exists.
>>72220760
Don't see your point
Everything you've ever seen, felt, or experienced can be attributed to the human brain.
>>72220660
This is shooped put the dick back in.
>>72221025
Here you go.
My God exists because I have had spiritual experiences in which I feel I have been in touch with him/her.
I think all Gods are the same one being, but have just been lost in translation; just like there are many different languages for the same one purpose of verbal communication.
If you don't want to believe in God then that's your choice; all I'll say is it's an empty existence to completely shun the powers of spirituality.
I feel it's more blind to believe that they're aren't many things about the universe that are, and always will be, way beyond our realm of understanding, and for very good reason.
Atheism has become a religion in itself.
>>72220175
That's how sad and pathetic this entire argument is.
Religious retards such as yourself make stupid wild claims that are so absurd that they are literally IMPOSSIBLE to test or verify.
Your stance is a stupid one at best. Your only solace lies in the fact that no one can prove your absurdity wrong therefore you can continue the "faith" forever.
Imagine if I told you I believed in flying unicorns. You can't PROVE that flying unicorns don't exist can you? That's how stupid your argument is to people on the outside of your bullshit.
Correct, nobody can ever prove that your silly god exists but we can tell you how stupid you are for believing in dumb bullshit folklore. By the way. Atheism isn't some religion like you morons like to pretend. We shouldn't even use a word. Atheism is only A word that describes the state of not believing in theism. I don't believe believe In unicorns but I wouldn't call myself an A-unicornist.
People whodont believe in something just don't believe in it. If god comes forward tomorrow and let's it be known then guess what? Every atheist on earth will instantly become a believer because that's what the evidence would implicate. What about you? What evidence could there ever be that could get you to admit you were wrong? Nothing right? Yet another example of how pathetic your arrogant stance is.
>>72220950
>Your full of yourself
>Says the one who is so sure of something he cant prove *that God isnt real* that he risks eternal suffering because science class
Btw retard maybe your science teacher forgot to tell you almost everything you sense comes from an outside source unless you think what yor eyes see is all inside your head too
>>72214649
Anon, please define God.
/thread
>>72215712
But then why the dumbass books? The Churches? The killings? The conversions?
>>72221221
Google "the god helmet"
>>72220950
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit-string_physics
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_B._Tucker
Tldr: physical stimuli and the sensation of the stimuli are two qualitatively different things. Hence consciousness is something qualitatively different, emerging out of a sufficiently complex information network. Maybe some underlying feature of universe obeying to specific laws. Also, matter and energy can be actually reduced to information, and consciousness would be ontologically necessary to read information.
Oh and reincarnation is probably real
>>72221077
Yes perfect.
>>72214649
Read Anslem and Aquinas if you want perranialist arguments for the existence of God as Being.
>>72221175
>Atheists ask Christians to prove something that cant be proven well themselves making a claim that cant be proven
>Christian points out it cant be proven but has faith well you cant prove it either
>HURDUR RELIGITARDS MAKE CLAIMS THEY CANT PROVE
>Dosent see atheists do the same thing and that there implied belief in something they cant prove started this whole thread
You people really are autistic arent you? I always thought le fedoralord was a meme but you clowns are proving it to be an accurate one
Why do athiests seem to think god is a literal human being floating around in space
ever though to think about "mother nature" or "nature" in general? maybe god is a metephorical word for the meaning of life and sceinces.
as in "it was nature that created the universe" replace nature with god. god the power that created the univers, not literally a man floating in space with his bare hands made the universe.
i'm an agnostic btw and its interesting to note most scientists atheists like to quote were very much religious.
>>72215319
Logic doesn't 'dictate' shit, it's a man-made concept. Reality is indifferent to what we think.
>>72221290
Arent you science fags the one always saying you have to prove your own points
Why dont you try and explain it
After you explain how nothing in your brain is the result of an outside source despite that going against science logic and religon all at once
>>72220894
So is nature sentient?
>>72221556
Let's slow this down since you are a complete idiot.
>christian makes an outrageous claim
>atheist ask christian to provide proof for said claim
>christian deflects the question while circling the wagon.
You see faggot. The atheist didn't start this. The atheist never claimed anything. The christian is the one who makes the extraordinary claim therefore the burden of proof lies on the christian to prove.
>>72214844
>this book here says you have to believe this book here
Christfags everyone
>>72221794
Read >>72221361
>>72221736
It's just an experiment showing how brain reacts to stimuli and what happens to your consciousness when a specific neuronal firing sequence is triggered.
It has nothing to do with God or Jesus or Spongebob. It doesn't prove nor disproves anything
>>72221862
Give us an example of said "ridiculous claims"?
>>72214649
Im gonna bite and actually offer some arguments for why God exists.
1. The modal ontological argument. To make it as oversimplified as possible, here it is: Is it possible (as in not logically incoherent) to imagine a being of maximum greatness? Yes. There are three levels of existence, impossible (square circle), possible (a unicorn, it could exist, but does not necessarily exist), and necessary (it cannot not exist, such as the number 2 or the law of non-contradiction). The greatest of these forms of existence is necessary, therefore a maximally great being would have necessary existence. Therefore, it must exist. You can no more imagine a world that does not have the number "2" or breaks the law of contradiction, than you can imagine one without God.
That is not to say that you cannot incorrectly assume you have imagined a world without them, you most certainly can. But then you are only fooling yourself.
This is argument 1, and the weakest.
>>72214649
Who said you that i can scientifically prove it?
>>72216957
OP was talking about "god(s)" not demons
Also, I'm not religious
>>72221933
They know what happened at the beginning of the universe
>>72222080
which is? and do atheists also "know" what happened in the beginning?
>>72221862
Christians do make outrageous claims, but fedora cucks trying to shove a reductionist approach everywhere aren't much better in that department.
>>72221933
>god exist
>the bible is a factual documentation
We can get into the thousands of ridiculous claims and stories within the bible that defy the lays of nature and physics but I'm sure you get the point
>>72221862
>The atheist didnt start this
Actually yeah one of you started this thread and most other threads like it
>The atheist never claimed anything
You idiots have been claiming shit this whole thread even things that go against science and logic as well as religon just to spite christians
How dense are you?
>>72214844
Ergo magic
>>72221961
Ontological argument being weak is to underestimate it, it's Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy tier.
>Then, one day, a student who had been left to sweep up after a particularly unsuccessful party found himself reasoning in this way: If, he thought to himself, such a machine is a virtual impossibility, it must have finite improbability. So all I have to do in order to make one is to work out how exactly improbable it is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give it a fresh cup of really hot tea... and turn it on!
>>72222080
Atheists claim this as well
>>72222172
>god exists
>implying god is a predetermined entity
>we could go into more claims
so give us some more?
>>72222156
That God created the universe. And no.
>>72222284
What would that claim be?
>>72222291
and what is god?
>>72222329
If you don't have a point I'm just going to stop responding to you
>>72221933
>>72222080
That the universe was created ex nihilo, which is what science is suggesting now
so "outrageous," I know.
>>72221681
>maybe god is a metephorical word
so, basically, god doesn't exist
>>72222313
Depends on the atheist the most common of the claims is the "big bang theory"
>>72214649
Don't take the bait Christians. Please don't From a former fedora tipper to you guys, please, just don't.
>>72214649
who's that spunk punk?
>>72222419
in the same sense that nature, physics and the laws of life don't exist.
>>72214649
you really belive that all what we have around was created from "nothing" ?
great architect/builder made this world, its obvious
There a lot of philosophical arguments that at least point towards the existence of God.I'm just going to argue why if God is real, then it's most likely the Christian one.
1) All serious historians, even religious or irreligious will tell you that Jesus was a historical person
2) Almost all religions after jesus' death mention him as enlightened or a prophet.
3) Most historical books today are based on the accounts of 1 or 2 historical people. The new testament is based on accounts of more than 12 people.
Again, i'm not arguing for the existence of God but i'm arguing that it's most likely if God is real and it's a personal God then it's the Christian one.
>>72215064
No it's because it's literally in the book you worship. It says he was a man. You're following bronze age myths for fuck's sake.
>>72214649
Give one that it doesn't.
It's a pointless endeavor to try because there's nothing ruling it in and nothing ruling it out.
>>72215033
What about polytheism? That is the oldest religion. Why must any of them necessarily be true?
>>72215664
'mURR ica. Founders of the worlds leading secular democracy.... and spiritual heartland of Judeism and the christian right.
I am an agnostic theist, please give me one (1) argument as to why you think all theists believe in Yahweh.
>>72222505
The big bang theory makes no claims of the origins of the universe.
>>72222413
No one is claiming to know for certain that is the origin of the universe. Christians and Islam and Jews though claim to know for certain the beginning of the universe.
>>72222794
Polytheism isnt a religon
Nice try though
>>72214649
All these mentally handicapped theistcucks and autistic fedora tippers
God exists because I want him to exist. The other gods don't exist unless I want them to.
Life is so much easier when you accept this.
But /pol/ won't accept this. Because this belief can't keep bumping these threads to the front page every fucking day.
>>72222732
You can believe in a creator God without believing in the Bible.
>>72222285
Yeah, next throw out some phrases your learned in high school bible study about how we cannot comprehend gods existence. Just another way of deflect the simple task of PROOF to back your absurd claims.
And you want more ridiculousness?
Resurrection.
6000 year old planet. (There is a nice lineage timeline that that can be added up from the first man Adam and his decedents that leaves us with this stupid number)
Ghost
Gods destroying entire cities
God flooding entire planet
People living to 200
Virgin births
Shils created in ston age times that can hold two of every creature without having them kill each or sink and created by a single family.
Like I said. We can go on forever. Do you want me to embarrass you some more euroshit?
>>72214844
Actually we just believe the Big Bang is the earliest known event. It also created space.
>>72214649
>>72221961
Now for the second argument.
2. Argument from materialism. If you assume, as a skeptic, that only that which you can empirically evaluate exists, then you are a materialist. This is a fine assumption, but self defeating. Material things are finite, tangible, and forceably follow cause and effect.
For example, if I kick a ball, it will roll. If the supposition is that only the material world exists, then a person need only find 1 immaterial thing that exists to show that materialism is inherently wrong. Thankfully, this is trivially easy.
"I perceive thoughts", the corrected version of Descartes' argument is a perfect example. Here he has shown two things that exist outside the material realm, "I" and "thoughts".
What is "I"? Simply put, it is who I perceive myself to be. Am I my body, certainly not! We can imagine a brain in a jar to defeat this idea. Therefore, "I" is now either my brain, or something immaterial. Well, one can also imagine a super-computer on which one's synaptic relations have been uploaded, such as Arnim Zola from Marvel comics. Thus, once every trace of what was originally, and materially "I" has been removed, "I" can still exist.
Therefore, "I" must exist outside the material realm. If "I" is supernatural, then it is not difficult to imagine a greater, or greatest "I".
The same argument can be applied to thoughts to show how thoughts exist outside the material realm as well. It is logically sound. You may refuse to accept it, but it is a logically sound argument for belief in the supernatural.
>>72222846
Why doesn't every christian just do this? It's called being logically consistent
>>72222884
Just claims of things that happened billions of years before the earth even existed right?
>>72222905
FUCKING LOSERS THINKING ABOUT THE PHILOSOPHICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
FUCKING SIMPLETONS JUST DON'T GET IT.
>>72222928
"God" is literally a title for Yahweh, like Adonai or Allah.
>>72222928
Well yes. Hindus do just that.
>>72222963
>we
Speak for yourself.
well there's actual evidence for my deity and he crashes planes to let you know hes real
It's easier to choose to believe without any consequences no matter the odds than it is not to believe and if the off chance is true then suffer the consequences.
When I found god, I found peace within myself. And through that I have never been happier before my 8 years of marriage ;)
>>72222928
so you're a deist? You believe god created the universe then had nothing to do with us?
Have you applied this >>72222846
test?
>>72222959
and your solid hard evidence to disprove these claims is?
>>72221961
So, let me get this straight. I am a Deist so i'm not trying to refute this argument. But i don't know how to refute the reverse ontological. Care to elaborate?
>>72222996
So then you think it's fucking bullshit when they use the exact same laws to calculate how to launch a satellite into orbit? You are literally claiming that relativity is false, got ANY evidence to back that up?
>>72222846
1. Thor
2. Housed in a Tree, the Thunder Oak/World Tree/Yggdrassil, was chopped down by Saint Boniface
3. Christian God doesn't live in a tree
4. Yeah I see it
God must exist because he is necessary to explain human condition...
>Love
>existence
>Truth
>Reliable brains.
>Consciousness
>REASON
>MORALITY
If no God..they are unexplainable. You are left with these explanations...
>chemical reaction
>illusion of uniformity in nature
>Self delusion
>Self delusion
>illusion of universal rules
>illusion of universal purpose and false belief in the value of actions.
Its clear that the world is senseless and meaningless without God
>>72222905
Well, I want flying midgets to be real, thereFore they are real too.
>>72223211
>Why think for yourself when you can be told how and what to think?
>>72223211
The world is senseless and meaningless anon.
Look around you - chaos.
>>72222959
And yet well shitting on us for having no proof *other than first hand accounts*
You have none of your own
Stay salty and enjoy the eternal lake of fire if your wrong
If im wrong ill never even know lol
>>72223007
Fine, you can believe in a creator DIETY without believing in the Bible. Is that better?
>>72223315
It is, I have a great disdain for Semites and I do not appreciate people perpetuating their cult and it's culture.
>>72214649
God exists because of ontological reasoning.
Hashem exists as the one true god because of consistency in teaching while historically being the only god who has made his presence known infront of thousands. The offshoots of this faith are farther from the truth as their translations and transfer of the sacred text have greatly altered the original work while the original text in Judaism historically has at most a different of three letters between all copies made with intent in the original language.
>>72223105
No one has ever lived to 200
The earth has never been flooded and no evidence for this great flood exist nor is Noah's arc even possible to begin with
Resurrection after death we know is not a thing
The earth is 5 billion years old and not 6000 years old. We have trees that are older then 6000.
Just stop euroshit.
Just stop already.
>>72223096
Yes. What makes you think I believe in a specific deity? Why does it need to be specific? Even if every religion on Earth is wrong doesn't mean a God doesn't exist.
>>72223211
>debunk all your own arguments in your own post
Nice
>>72223003
>PHILOSOPHICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
There aren't any. Stop trying to see patterns and logic in places where it doesn't apply.
You are just wasting time.
But you will keep doing this.
>>72223234
Analogy doesn't apply. Only god's existence can be defined by its claim.
>>72223158
Yeah rocket science is the same thing as the big bang theory
You got me there genius
>>72222984
Damn , you're actually making very good arguments. May i ask if you're just copy pasting them or have you studied philosophy?
>>72223463
There is evidence of a great flood approx. 11.000 years ago. It has absolutely nothing to do with the bible though
American atheists are so ridiculous...
"Praise the amazing atheist! he who makes great videos !"
>>72214649
Agnostic here and I want you to prove, definitively, that no God exists. Can't be done. Nor can it be proven. So who the fuck knows? Just let people do whatever bro.
>>72214649
God exists because big tits exist.
>>72223535
It is retard they use the same laws of physics
>>72223577
Atheist and agnostic are the same thing, i have never in my life met a gnostic atheist
>>72223463
>my evidence "i think", it didn't happen cuz it sounds stoopid.
sources? links?
>>72223495
Analogy does apply.
Everyone take not that most of the thiests in this thread aremainly burgers and britbongs
Now, which two countries have the worst education systems again?
>>72221961
>The greatest of these forms of existence is necessary, therefore a maximally great being would have necessary existence.
I'm sorry I can't see the connection here, it seems to be a non-sequitur.
You seem to have shown here and in your second post that God could exist, not that he definitely does.
>>72214649
>>72221961
>>72222984
The third argument.
3. Argument from evil/morality. An strong example of a moral evil is raping infants. I have rarely met anyone who tried to defend that raping infants is not immoral. To argue that it is not immoral not only requires you denying your own conscious, evolutionary theory, but it is also a self refuting argument unless you attempt to argue "might makes right" in which case you are saying that if I use a shotgun to murder you, and then flee to an area of earth that I will not be prosecuted, then I have have committed a morally good act because I used my strength of gunpower to achieve my goal while using my strength of intellect to prevent others from using their power on me. (See, self refuting).
Ok, now that I have defended that raping infants is morally wrong, the question is why? Any argument of subjective morality leaves a possible situation in which a man can rape infants and be lauded as a morally upstanding person. This inherent knowledge of an absolute evil/ moral wrong is evidence that morality transcends man.
This leaves the logical conclusion that their is a morally superior being that has given man an objective morality.
>>72214649
It is not possible to express objective arguments for God's reality in the dualistic logic and existence He created. God is inconceivable in His totality. He transcends logic and existence. You miss the point if you try to prove God's existence within the limit's of human conception (i.e., the limits of the logic he designed).
The existence of Jesus Christ and the miracles he performed should be all the objective demonstration you need that God is real.
Even if Jesus appeared before you right this second and performed every miracle you demanded of him, you would just dismiss it as hallucination and check yourself into a mental institution. If there were some unassailable logical proof of God, you would probably resent that fact. It would be like a prison. To reject God would be to reject your rationality.
God gave you absolute freedom - including the freedom to reject Him. You will only find "proof" of God in faith.
For God all things are possible - even what in human conception is self-contradiction.
Muhammed was a paedophile and performed no miracles. Jehovah was the vengeful "god" of a bunch of superstitious old women - God distorted out of all recognition by Jewish supremacists and pharisees.
>>72223566
Lord of men wearing panties and sticking bananas up his ass! Glory to eternal nothingness!
>>72214649
god exists because if you stick to the basic rules of behavior written in the Bible, you will lead a good and prosperous life.
>>72216094
>voltaire
Go fuck yourself mongol scum
>>Why think for yourself when you can be told how and what to think?
If the apple exists there must be an apple tree.I just follow what exist and try to explain why they exist.
God is necessary to explain why I am conscious in a universe made of probability waves and small particles.All non-theistic explanations tell me "well it Must be a delusion"
THATS NOT AN ANSWER.
>>72223293
They how can I understand what you mean.Its a senseless world am I right?
>>72223487
Do you believe that?
Well you can't. Now that reasonand conciousness is an illusion your belief is also an illusion.You are an illusion .Just dust, floating through space... You don't even think.
>>72223300
I've never made a ridiculous claim so why would I need to proof something I never claimed.
Unless you are saying that me asking for proof of the ridiculous claims you believe in is in and of itself, a ridiculous claim I'm my part.
That's some real mental gymnastics you're doing there.
>>72223752
>Analogy does apply.
great convincing argument
Flying midgets won't exist whether you want them to or not.
God will exist depending on whether you want him to or not.
Don't think too hard about the implications of this. You will get a headache.
>>72223605
Yup you figured it out its the exact same thing
You understand the big bang theory so you should have no trouble making it to the moon yourself right?
>>72222846
It is very, very easy to disprove the pagan gods since they are logically incoherent.
example. Zeus: Had many relationships and many children and resided on mount olympus.
Hera : Felt jealous because her husband had many relationships and took her anger to the mortals. Also resided in mount olympus.
Can you see how they fail to exist? They are simply exaggerated version of the ancient humans and resided in the physical world.
>>72215582
>confusing atheists and agnostics
wew
>>72222963
>What is Big Crunch
>What is BB-BC cycle
>>72223785
United states has something like 45 of the top 50 universities in the world.
Hope that helps you decide.
>>72214649
Europe gives up God
Is overrun by Muslims
America gives up God
Is overrun by Mexican Catholics
Explain that, athefags
>>72223785
>Education systems
>Schools
>Marxist indoctrination camps
>Gee i wonder why people who go through better longer marxist indoctrination are less likely to believe in God
>>72214649
Nobody, not a single tiny loser on this earth KNOWS whether God does or doesnt exist. I know for a fact that religion is utter nonsense though. Why would you trust something that another human being wrote down for you to believe in? And out of the thousands of religions that are out there, what makes you so special that your parents brainwashed you into believing the only correct one??
Since god exists beyond the material world he cannot be proven with material proofs. And since he exists beyond the material world, material laws do not apply to him.
Stop believing only in the immediate and you'll find truth eventually.
>>72221371
When I transition into a trap, I wish to become as pretty as Somik.
>>72223842
Jesus fucking christ you faggots are so fucking boring. You sure love using lots of words to say nothing.
>>72218441
The majority of the world is poor.
The majority of the world is badly educated.
The majority of the world is religious.
I'm certain that these are unrelated, and accept your argument ad-populum as somehow not retarded goatshit.
>>72214649
MUH BOOK
>>72224134
There is no bog crunch because space is flat
>>72224303
put the snek down
>>72223747
Sure. Go and google
"oldest person who ever lived"
"How old is planet earth"
"Has a virgin every given birth"
Do that for everything on the list and then come back and tell 4chan your findings.
You retard. You need a source for common knowledge shit such as 200 year old human.
>>72214649
(1) My own conception of God is as follows:
God = {all things that are true}
By definition this exists.
>>72224477
I can't tell if you understand what you're saying or if you're being witty
>>72224002
>I have never made a ridiculous claim
Theres another ridiculos claim and more mental gymnastics
>>72224365
What.
>>72224477
Things cant be true.
Statements about things can be true.
>>72224722
The geometry of spacetime is flat so the universe will expand forever.
>>72224726
statements are things!
>>72223110
I have studied philosophy, evolutionary theory, theology, and quite a lot in between.
The reverse ontological argument is a logical fallacy that flows from not understanding the modal ontological argument.
I will try to explain it simply in two paragraphs, while others have written books on it.
The Ontological argument says a Maximally Great Being (MGB) could exist, but since it is maximal, it will also have the greatest form of existence, an existence that cannot not exist (Necessary existence). All things that exist Necessarily must exist in every imaginable world, including this one.
The reverse is arguing that an MGB could possibly not exist. But this is where the argument fails. I could claim, I imagined a world where "red" is "not red" and "cow" is "not cow", thus I have imagined a world without the law of non-contradiction (LNC). But this only shows my logical ineptitude, because you are using the LNC to define what red is before you negate, and you are using it to define its negation. In addition, you are also using EVERY OTHER thing that exists necessarily at the same time, whether you are aware of it or not. You are also imagining that world has "2" because "red" and "cow" are "2" things.
Secondly, you cannot argue that something can necessarily not exist. You can only logically argue impossibility (logical incoherence). It is logically incoherent to say "something" "must always not exist". "Something", is either A) logically coherent, and therefore possible, or necessary, or B) logically incoherent (self contradicting) and therefore does not. It is logicall incoherent to claim that something is "possible" and simultaneously "necessarily not".
For example, imagine a unicorn that could never exist. If you imagined it, it could exist, therefore "possible". Now imagine a square circle. You did not imagine a square circle because it is logically incoherent, therefore "impossible".
Hope this helps!
People always seem to argue only about whether there is or isn't a god, but nobody ever argues about whether it matters or not
>>72224568
You certainly proved your point without laying out your argument that explains your position in an intelligent manner.
No but really. You are a master at saying and believing things without explanation.
>>72224836
No statements are not things.They are descriptions of things.
>>72224477
>>72224836
>God = {all things that are true}
>statements are things!
god is the set of all true statements?
sounds like you just gave an arbitrary name to the set of all true statements
>>72225007
>they are descriptions of things
Isn't that a thing in itself, though?
>>72224857
>a Maximally Great Being (MGB) could exist, but since it is maximal, it will also have the greatest form of existence, an existence that cannot not exist
This is the part which requires further explanation.
The rest seems to be arguing for the possiblity of god, not his certainty.
>>72224864
> nobody ever argues about whether it matters or not
That's because there is no argument. This absolutely doesn't matter.
That's why this heated discussion is taking place on a indonesian moving pictogram forum.
>>72224434
>In parthenogenesis, a cell within an animal splits via meiosis, halving its genetic material. Then one of these split cells, essentially an egg, fuses with another split cell nearby, fertilizing itself and—because the genetic material of cells were not split evenly or identically—creating a not-quite-clone embryo that can be carried to term.
>Parthenogenesis is common in invertebrates; birds, fish, and reptiles can have virgin births as well. Until recently, scientists believed this was a rare response to captivity, environmental stresses, or mate scarcity, but over the past three years, researchers have found that parthenogenesis is also surprisingly common in healthy populations living in the wild. And while researchers are still trying to figure out what triggers parthenogenesis, the fact that it happens across so many species means it's theoretically possible that Mary could have given parthenogenetic birth to Christ.
>>72224857
Thank you very much! I can't wait to see someone try to refute this.
>>72224864
If a God exists, it has to matter. Because if there is a God, we can learn things about him from that which he created.
For example, I am "I". I am not "not I". From this I can draw a conclusion that the God who made this world is logical, in that he does not deal in illogical self-contradictions.
Now I can know 1 thing about this God. This is what is referred to as the God of nature. The God you can learn about by perceiving the natural world. The key is to work ONLY in logical syllogisms, not to espouse things on feelings (such as, "there is evil, therefore God must be evil", this does not logically flow). What does logically flow is "I perceive evil, therefore God allows me to perceive evil." The steps in following the god of nature are tiny, but if you work through as many logical conclusions you can reach about god from the world you perceive, you would be surprised what you can find out about him.
>>72216470
>how is it more plausible that an omnipotent omniscient being came into existence and then made the universe than the universe just came into existence
because entropy. and causation
>>72223826
What about evolutionary ethics though? It can be argued that humans think killing infants is wrong because it's implanted in our brains by nature.
>>72225081
Don't seem like it.Although I haven't done any reading on this...Someone help!
>>72225060
yeah pretty much.
God is mathematical
>>72225728
Not bad. Better than most gods that get thrown around here.
>>72214649
Not even Catholic, but Aquinas has the best/simplest simple proofs of God's existence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae
C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" is a concise (and fun) walkthrough from the idea of a moral power behind the universe all the way to the logical necessity of Christ’s sacrifice.
If you want something personal: As an engineer, I have an idea of how hard it is to get things to work just right. I know that, when left alone, even isolated systems ubiquitously degrade over time. When you start connecting systems, the possibility of failure is exponentially increased. The idea that the incredible complexity of our world could have come about as a result of chance is far harder to believe than “There is another rational being in the universe of a far higher power than myself, who has excerpted the same creative power I have, but to a greater degree.”
As for the God of the Bible, it’s more of a question of “how does this god *complete* all the other gods I’ve heard about?” Looking back through the mythology of humanity, we find that Christ was foretold to some degree even in the old Pagan myths (Prometheus and the dying corn gods comes to mind).
There’s plenty more, but I really suggest Mere Christianity. Lewis is a far better writer than I.
>>72222984
The premise 'I exist outside the material realm' is utterly baseless, grounded in immaterial-ism, and departs 'sound premises' the moment you plug it into logic.
It hasn't been proven that thoughts exist 'outside' the material realm, the crux of your example, and every point of data shows that the 'I' that exists is an emergent property of a nervous system with wholly physical property's. This is why your argument is bad.
>>72225609
I did not say killing infants. I said raping infants.
Secondly, I will try to restate my claim so you can better understand it.
Lets assume the evolutionary ethics is why raping infants is wrong. You are now arguing that it is possible that raping infants could be a morally good thing to do if evolutionary ethics ever went that way.
You have now said "I can imagine a culture in which raping infants is a morally good thing to do." For example, imagine a town in which a strong man murders all the men and women and children, except the infants. Then he goes on to rape the infants, and continues to have intercourse with them until puberty and beyond, thus this younger generation provides him children. Also, this man teaches the people (the former infants) that raping infants is a good thing, thus all the parents rape their new infant children as well. This culture continues having children, thus pushing a biological evolutionary chain into the future in which the people believe raping infants is a morally good thing to do, on par with charity and honesty.
Can you honestly say you think that this culture would actually believe raping infants is a good thing? Can you also, honestly, say that you also regard this culture as performing a moral good because it was determined by evolutionary ethics?
If so, you are now arguing for "might makes right" ("survival of the fittest". who gives a damn what ethics I have and pass on, so long as I have progeny.)
Now see my earlier post about the conclusion of "might makes right" ethics and raping infants.
>>72223914
What, like killing those who displease you, taking the virgins for your wives from the people you defeat and how much to sell another person for as a slave?
If you obeyed the bible you'd be in jail.
>>72226464
Alright, you're a fucking faggot.
You've not answered my questions and are only convincing to fellow religiontards who wish to be convinced.
Yours is so much sophistry and concealed non-sequiturs.
You have only shown that God could exist, not that he definitely does. The same could be said of the flying spaghetti monster.
Your degree ain't worth shit.
>>72226464
I don't think that's how evolution works. The change in our collective mind doesn't come from a strong man convincing everybody that something is right or wrong.
It comes from random mutations and survival of the fittest. If there was a man, who thought (not a rational thought, but a primal one, imagine a serial killer for example) that raping infants is ok, and this man somehow outlived all humanity and spawned children with the same defect in their genes, then these people would be able to think that it's not morally wrong to do these things.
We can't really imagine this, because, well, humanity won't exist if we would disregard children. It's also can be hard to imagine, because we're predisposed to think like that (because of evolution).
