Who created god?
>>72131367
human imagination
>>72131367
The Jews.
Wow!
You look better than usuall on that portrait Brazil!
>>72131367
God is a fundamental aspect of reality, meaning he was uncreated
>>72131367
God created god so god can create God
>>72131367
That which is eternal is not created
>>72131367
God is consciousness, it always existed
>>72131632
Then where did he "came" from? Was he always there? If he was always there what is the first thing he remember?
always existed
>>72131367
I did.
>>72131761
The fact that things must have an origin is something that is off this world
A being that is not of this world is not bound to this fact
>>72131761
>implying our feeble human minds can comprehend the aspects of God
>Ted, they're talking about religion on 4chan again.
>>72132081
Seeing how gods are fictional beings of mans imagination, I'd say we can comprehend god.
If a god have a incomprehensible quality, it simply means nothing.We've just given it that name to make i seem as if the god is something beyond us.
>>72131433
I tip my fedora to you good sir.
>>72132403
>You must be mistaken Dougle. No one could be stupid enough to talk about religion on 4chan. People that stupid just dont exist in large enough numbers for something like that to happen.
There is no beginning
There is no end
>>72131367
Nietzsche.
As much as he hated the idea of God, Nietzsche's one gift unto the world, he didn't kill Him. Instead, he wrote his fabled biography as a testament to his power against God.
>>72132403
>>72132499
they made criminally small amounts of that show
>>72131367
The God Particle
(/sci/ here, that's the Higgs Boson, you dumbies)
>>72131433
fpbp
>Who created god?
Kek did. Next question
I did
>>72132777
The writers only do a few seasons or any show they make and the lead actor died.
>>72131367
whoevery or whatever god wanted to by
>>72131367
God
>>72131367
>Who created god?
The more fundamental question is: Why does ANYTHING at all exist in the first place?
Nothing is actually -supposed- to exist, in the first place. Because you can't 'create' matter and energy out of nowhere.
Out of all the things the human mind can't even begin to comprehend, luckily we are able to atleast pose this above mentioned question.. My biology teacher posed that question to me once for the first time.
Nothing is supposed to exist, yet matter and energy exists. If it's the creation of a creator, then who created the creator? That's the secondary question.
I believe we may start coming to an answer by studying what 'thoughts' actually are. They are very real, and we can mold it by, well, thinking. But it's not a 'material' thing. I believe there lies to answer to the question of existence itself. I fear the answer may be horrifying though.
>>72132081
>our minds can't comprehend God
>that's why we wrote extensively about him thousands of years ago
>>72133320
>I believe we may start coming to an answer by studying what 'thoughts' actually are.
>what 'thoughts' actually are
There is no deeper mystery to the brain and what goes on in it. It's a mushy organ with neurons, electrial signals and chemicals.
>>72133320
Humans have existed for such a short period of time that thinking we know what is and isnt "supposed to happen is a joke. We can only make educated guesses on the beginnings and endings of universes.
Perhaps when ours flies apart it will collide with other universes doing the exact same thing and this will allow for sufficient mass and gravity to create a big crunch followed by another big bang.
Maybe this is the constant state of the universe. No real beginning or real end because the scale is just so huge that applying meaning to just our universe means nothing.
>>72131367
God has always been there
>>72133657
Yes but consciousness is something that exists on another plane of existence. They DEPEND on matter and energy, as you pointed out, but they ARE not matter and energy themselves, they are something 'beyond' that, and that's why I believe fundamentally understanding the nature of said thing known as consciousness that exists beyond matter and energy itself is fundamental to understanding existence itself.
>>72133857
Well we can't lay claim to understand many things, you're right, but we have the intelligence and consciousness apparently to question the nature of existence itself. I have atleast no problem conceptualizing these things in my own consciousness. And the phrase ''Nothing is supposed to exist'' makes perfect sense to me, because I know that it's existentially impossible to ''create'' matter or energy out of non-existence.
>>72131367
What came before the Big Bang and why did the big bang happen, moreover how did all the material get created that created the Big Bang... nigger
>>72133857
Our universe is spreading into a thin nothingness though. And that state will continue for infinity.
At which point all wishful thinking hypotethical scenarios are up for grabs.
One I like, which some physicists argue, is that our universe is like a bubble in a glass of champagne. Pops in and out of existence in the blink of an eye. As many other universes have done before and will continue to do.
Again;, such assumptions are shots in the dark.
>>72133857
>>72134195
That said, I recognize that we 'exist', as what we perceive to be beings of matter ad energy. So evidently either 'something' can come into existence out of non-existence, or everything exists within a consciousness. Either way I'm not sure I want to understand the nature of existence itself, it's a scary subject.
>>72131367
Man.
Your imagination.
*tipses fedora and slowly walks away in the fog*
>>72134059
>he's a dualist
Virgin detected. Spinoza wants to have a word w you
>>72134195
>Supposed
Is the problem word. "Supposed" is an emotional word. It has no logical meaning beyond what people THINK should or shouldnt happen.
Since we dont know enough about the universe we cant use the word supposed.
>>72134277
That explanation is similar to what I think is happening. Something on a scale we cant comprehend.
>>72134643
>emotional word
No it isn't. You're avoiding thinking about this alltogether by just declaring ''supposed isn't a valid word'', it's perfectly valid, and I'll pose it again:
Nothing is supposed (can) to exist, because you can't create things out of non-existence.
>>72131367
SuperGod
>>72134783
Or...
The other shot in the dark:
This is it.
The one universe that will ever be. Soon to be gone into the vast infinity.
>>72131433
/thread
>>72131367
God did.
>>72131367
On the Seventh Day, the great prophet DOG inverted himself and became GOD, after eating nothing and shitting out the entire known Universe.
Woe unto Mankind if DOG returns to eat his own shit.
>>72131761
Something having a beginning and an end is a very human concept and not very representative of reality as a whole.
>>72134059
>muh consciousness
>muh planes of existence
face it, no amount of new age thinking can explain the hard problem of consciousness, if there is even a problem in the first place. Your thoughts and sensations are a result of physical causes, of chemicals and electric pulses in the brain. There is no immaterialness in the mind or the universe for that matter (pun intended).
>>72131433
first post best post
now get the fuck back to >>>/rel/ you fucking religion faggots
>>72135024
Ausie shitposting reached a new level.
Fuckin' straya
>>72131433
destroyed
>>72131433
damn...
>>72131632
So why does god need to exist?
Why can't the universe be eternal?
>>72135239
>Fincuck supports degeneracy
>>72131367
Black people of course
>WE WUZ KREATIN GODZ IN SHIEEEET
seriously though, /pol/ cannot refute this
>>72135319
Why can't both be eternal?
>>72131562
But the universe can't be a fundamental aspect because reasons amiright?
>>72135096
Infinity is also a very human concept that has no beginning or end. We use it extensively in math and science which reveal many truths. But that's all it is, a concept. It doesn't actually exist. Nothing in the world is there forever, things come into being and disperse into non being. God is logically incoherent.
>>72131910
So you're basicly saying that god is a space refugee that came from other failed universe? Then who created that other universe from where our god came into our universe?
God or no god, we're left with a fact that is too weird to truly grasp: the cosmos was never created. it has always existed, it will never end. Our universe might, but not the cosmos.
Try to meditate a minute or two on this. Something, all of this, exists, rather than nothing at all.
once humans develop superintelligent AI, it will learn how to reach back in time and kick off the big bang.
we are a self-contained temporal loop.
>>72134415
Fake, atheism is way , way older than fedoras and fat people.
>>72135428
A day 1 philosophy student can refute Aquinas
>>72135428
Newton's laws basicly leave thomas aquinas looking like an inbred retarded moron desu senpai.
>>72135428
Objectively false under any interpretation of quantum or even mesoscopic physics.
Here's a simple example of potential becoming actual with no causative force, superfluidity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z6UJbwxBZI
>>72135658
I personally don't believe in god, but without a god you are still left with the same problem of infinity. There logically can't be an event without an initial cause, and yet we'd need one for the start of the universe/multiverse. The only logical explanation is that it has always been "present".
>>72135115
>new age thinking
Jesus christ. I should've known better than to post these things on a subhuman double digit IQ board. I'm not talking about any new age shit you stupid retard, I'm simply stating that CONSCIOUSNESS is not a material thing you can 'touch', it's EXTREMELY LIKELY not something you can feel like warmth (energy) either, it is something that exists in of itself but depends on matter (brain) and energy (things in brain) to exist (within your and my head right now)
>>72135854
And a day one philosohpy student cucks for the left.
>>72136200
As you said, you are STATING it. That doesn't make it true. And yes, it is new age bullshit, you are believing in an inherently unprovable claim because it makes you feel special.
>>72131367
God is an eternal spirit being. He is not a created being. He always existed, and will always exist.
>>72135854
In between sucking dicks maybe.
>>72136200
It's just the godless way of describing the soul.
>>72136058
>There logically can't be an event without an initial cause
>logical
>even without cause
What says that the universe have to be logical?
The big bang doesn't make any god damn sense. That something came from nothing makes no sense.
But to the best of our knowledge, this is exactly what happened.
The universe doesn't need to follow laws to make it easily understandable for humans. We are merely ment to understand how seasons change and how to use a sharp stick to kill something, not to understand the initial conditions of the universe.
>>72135693
In meant world as in plain of existence
>>72135319
He does not have to exist but his existence would give purpose and meaning to people. Also it would explain how thing came into existence. Aka caused the big bang
>>72136428
>That doesn't make it true
What the fuck? Are you fucking retarded? Consciousness IS NOT a material thing you stupid fucking retard. You can't split open someones head and touch consciousness as if it was a fucking rock or something.
> And yes, it is new age bullshit
Nah, you're just a double digit IQ subhuman who cannot use your fucking head for anything other than parroting what someone else once told you
>>72136530
See that's how shitty aquinas is, in the half second between switching dicks a philosopy student can refute him
>>72135428
It was all going so well until the penultimate panel.
>Everybody knows the Titans created the Gods.
>>72136723
>The universe doesn't need to follow laws to make it easily understandable
Everything weird he was observed so far in the history of human knowledge has turned out to follow a set of laws. I don't see any reason to suspect this pattern will change.
>>72136586
It very well may be something along those lines. We KNOW consciousness is not material, and it's also not energy either, although it's dependant on both, so it must be something else, otherwise it wouldn't exist, but it DOES exist. So it's something that exists and ISN'T material or energy.
>>72131433
#rekt
>>72136910
we have* observed
>>72136058
>There logically can't be an event without an initial cause
But that cause doesn't equate to a 'God' in any sense. Also logical explanations aren't an absolute way of explaining the universe. For example quantum mechanics says that electrons can be in 2 places at once and mathematics says that the infinite sum of natural integers is -1/12 (this fact is mighty useful in calculations of quantum theory). None of it makes sense but it just works.
>>72136783
>You can't split open someones head and touch consciousness as if it was a fucking rock or something.
Why not? What makes us so magically special that we're the one exception in the universe?
I appreciate that you didn't even try to refute the meat of my argument.
>you are believing in an inherently unprovable claim because it makes you feel special.
>>72131367
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DP0nIFSIxc&feature=youtu.be
another reality created the situation.
at the end of it alll...
that is the secret I hold from you.
>>72131367
god^2
>>72137030
>>You can't split open someones head and touch consciousness as if it was a fucking rock or something.
>Why not? What makes us so magically special that we're the one exception in the universe?
You're LITERALLY retarded.
Do you even speak english? I don't understand? Go try split opening someones head with an axe right now, see if you can poke around inside their head and see if you can find consciousness.
You humongous fucking complete and utter retard, jesus fucking christ.
>>72131367
The human imagination
>>72137007
Dude, first thing I said was "I personally don't believe in god". Why would you need to point out that it doesn't equate to a "god" in any sense?
>Also logical explanations aren't an absolute way of explaining the universe. For example quantum mechanics says that electrons can be in 2 places at once
There are many examples of observations that made no sense under the current understanding of the laws of the universe that turned out to fit perfectly in a new logical paradigm.
>>72137181
What a witty and cunning rebuttal of my points. You sure proved that I'm the retard.
>>72137355
This is you.
You MUST be trolling, I can't understand why else you'd be saying these completely outlandish things.
Every single person in existence knows that consciousness is not a physical material thing you can touch and feel with your hands. Every single person in this thread knows this fact. You can prove this to yourself by murdering your mom right now and then poke around in her head and see if you find this new physical material thing you claim exists known as consciousness.
Consciousness is not PHYSICAL.
What is it about that sentence you don't understand? I really don't get it. Are you trolling`?
>>72136930
If you can't run, you can't gun.
Nobody has ever survived a firefight by remaining stationary in one location, after your first shot you've given away your location and now you've got 40+ murder-apes swarming on your tubby 2mph waddling ass.
Shoot, run, hide, repeat. Can't run? Oh well I guess you're already dead then.
>>72137525
I explicitly said this was the meat of my argument but clearly you only understand muslim cock
>>you are believing in an inherently unprovable claim because it makes you feel special.
In what way is your magical hippy new age "it's like in the ether man" bullshit is not unprovable?
And yes, considering there are CONSCIOUSNESS ALTERING DRUGS only an idiot would think it's something mystical.
>>72131433
>>72137704
>>>you are believing in an inherently unprovable claim
It is PROVABLE -RIGHT NOW- Go kill someone. Or pay money to examine someone who has already died. Then open up their head, and find this new organ you claim exists that no one has ever heard of that you claim is ''consciousness''.
Consciousness is something that exists beyond physics, this is 100% proven fact. It's not some fucking liquid you can drink that your brain produces, you humongous fucking utter and complete retard.
Jesus christ, I can't believe I'm trying to explain this simple fact to another human right now.
>>72137525
You sound as if you've solved the hard problem of consciousness.
Consciousness is derived from material causes, you can't deny this because it's a scientific fact. But you are making the leap from material causes to immaterial substance. No one knows how consciousness arises but we are sure it's not some immaterial thing that exists in another plane of existence. That's absurd.
>>72138011
>you can't deny this because it's a scientific fac
It is DERIVED from material causes, yes.
I know, in fact I mentioned that FOUR TIMES throughout this thread.
And that's my point, it's DERIVED from material causes, but it ISN'T material itself.
>>72137902
>this is 100% proven fac
Then show me the evidence.
>It is PROVABLE -RIGHT NOW- Go kill someone. Or pay money to examine someone who has already died. Then open up their head, and find this new organ you claim exists that no one has ever heard of that you claim is ''consciousness''.
Turn around and look at your door. Do you see immigrant cock? Would you therefore deduce that immigrant cock doesn't exist despite it being your sole source of sustenance?
>>72131367
Dog
>>72138011
>in another plane of existence.
What the fuck is this shit? No one has claimed this. What the fuck are you even talking about? I'm simply stating that consciousness is derived from physcical (material) things, but ISN'T material itself. That's it. This gook seems to be having an exceptionally hard time grasping that.
>>72138151
>Then show me the evidence.
Sure. Go kill someone, open up their head, and find consciousness for me.
There, I proved to you that I'm right, because you can't do that.
>>72138245
Reading isn't your strong suit, already answered using your national symbol..
>Turn around and look at your door. Do you see immigrant cock? Would you therefore deduce that immigrant cock doesn't exist despite it being your sole source of sustenance?
>>72138364
>Then show me the evidence.
Sure. Go kill someone, open up their head, and find consciousness for me.
There, I proved to you that I'm right, because you can't do that.
This guy thinks I'm claiming the brain isn't a physical thing? Is that what this retard thinks I'm saying?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE WORD CONSCIOUSNESS REFERS TO, GOOK?
>>72138418
>Reading isn't your strong suit, already answered using your national symbol..
>>Turn around and look at your door. Do you see immigrant cock? Would you therefore deduce that immigrant cock doesn't exist despite it being your sole source of sustenance?
>>72138144
So what is it then? do you think it exists separate from the brain as something immaterial? Or do you think it's simply produced by the components of the brain working together? If so, why so defensive?
Is this relevant to the OP
>>72138497
You are literally, clinically, retarded.
I'm NOT talking about the brain ''not existing'', I'm saying consciousness is not a material, physical thing, this is PROVEN FACT. The BRAIN is a material, physical thing, that consciousness depends on and is derived from, but consciousness itself is NOT physical and material.
>>72137275
>Why would you need to point out that it doesn't equate to a "god" in any sense?
because you literally said 'without a god we'd be left with the problem'.
>There are many examples of observations that made no sense under the current understanding of the laws of the universe that turned out to fit perfectly in a new logical paradigm.
Yes I don't disagree with this, that's why we can't be sure of any initial cause because new facts an emerge.
>>72131367
masless singularity which exploded out of nowhere and created everything
>>72138546
>So what is it then?
It doesn't exist as a physical or material thing, this is fact. That's all I'm stating
>>72138562
If it is a proven fact surely you have proof.
>>72138144
>And that's my point, it's DERIVED from material causes, but it ISN'T material itself
But you're making that leap from material to non material. Your claim is unsubstantial and basically unprovable.
>>72138624
which of the two possibilities I gave is the closest to your stance?
>>72138212
You're the one who said it exists on another plane. It's there for everyone to see.
>>72138712
>But you're making that leap from material to non material
........WHAT? We're talking about two differnet things here:
- THE BRAIN
and
- CONSCIOUSNESS
Consciousness depends on the brain. The brain itself IS material, CONSCIOUSNESS on the other hand is not physically quantifiable, therefore it ISN'T physical.
>>72138666
>surely you have proof.
Yes, the FACT that consciousness -IS NOT- physical, IS the proof.
>>72138795
There is no ''stance'' here, ALL I'm factually stating is that consciousness is -NOT- a PHYSICAL thing.
God is made up in a way he can't be disproven, that's a trick. The problem is, you can just sit all day making up shit that can not be disproven. No reason to believe any of it, including gods.
>>72138821
>on another plane
You're reading far too much into the word 'plane' then, what I meant (and anyone who isn't an autist understands this) is that it isn't a material thing, and it isn't energy either.
>>72138861
So consciousness not being physical is the proof that it isn't physical?
I guess it's true what they say about sweden's current education system.
>>72131367
A God created God. And then it's turtles all the way down.
>consciousness is physical! i promise! i can touch it like i can touch my left hand with my right hand, or my keyboard!!
>''prove it to me''
>n-no you prove to me that it isn't physical
jesus christ
>>72138861
>CONSCIOUSNESS on the other hand is not physically quantifiable
Have you ever taken LSD? Because your consciousness is altered by the effects of acid. And we can then scan the brain using fMRI to see changes in electrochemical imbalance.
>>72131367
An Omnipotent being does not need a creator, for all creation stems from that being.
>>72138982
>So consciousness not being physical is the proof that it isn't physical?
Yes, because it's not something that is physically quantifiable, never has been, throughout all of human history. You cannot kill someone right now, open up their brain, find 'conciousness', touch it and claim you've just touched consciousness.
>>72138905
Just answer the question please, don't get worked up about words
>>72131367
blacks invented god
>>72134195
>>72134347
A better question is "why does anything make sense?", who cares if things exist. The weirdest thing is that not only do they exist but they also make sense. Why does something that shouldn't exist, arise in a manner that makes sense?
>>72139095
>Because your consciousness is altered by the effects of acid
Yes, LSD is a physical thing, much like the brain you see. Since consciousness depends on the brain (the brain is a physical thing), it's not so strange that other physical things can alter consciousness either by ALTERING THE BRAIN.
>electrochemical imbalance.
Yes, energy, another thing within the brain that consciousness itself is derived from and depends on.
>>72131433
>>72132440
>>72132961
>>72134970
>>72135239
>>72135307
>>72136977
>>72137751
>>72139211
That's due to what we call the laws of nature, things eventually re-arrange themselves according to these laws, and as we've evolved as a result of these laws ourselves, we're adapted to make sense of some of it.
>>72131433
/thread
![1444432498089[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/D2wbDVX.png "1444432498089[1].png")
>>72139132
Yet you can alter it with chemicals. Strange for such a non-physical phenomenon. And it is quantifiable, by dozens of metrics.
Lookee here, five seconds of the googles
https://www.valuescentre.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2014-09-30/The%20Metrics%20of%20Human%20Consciousness.pdf
>>72131751
but always is hard concept for the human brain to comprehend
>>72139415
>Yet you can alter it with chemicals
Yes, so?
>. Strange for such a non-physical phenomenon.
No? Not at all. The brain is physical also, and consciousness is derived from and depends on it, a physical thing.
The entire point of what I've been posting throughout the thread is that the BRAIN is PHYSICAL, while consciousness, that IS NOT physical, DEPENDS on that PHYSICAL thing.
What is it you don't understand?
What I said earlier also was that you cannot PHYSICALLY QUANTIFY -CONSCIOUSNESS-
What you're QUANTIFYING are the aformentioned chemical and electrochemical reaction in the brain, NOT consciousness, but in the brain.
>>72131433
![1348764844816[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/CwX6oV0.png "1348764844816[1].png")
>>72139779
Give one shred of evidence for your claim.
>>72139962
What ''claim'' are you claiming needs evidence to be proven?
I'm only retelling facts that have since long been established. What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>72139235
then how does immaterial things arise out of material things? You're saying it just does, but you can't actually explain it.
see this is the thing you're failing to grasp. You're basically using the same argument Plato did in his theory of forms, that there are immaterial things that exist 'just coz'.
>>72140121
That consciousness is not physical.
Show me one shred of proof.
>>72140245
>then how does immaterial things arise out of material things?
That's the question I'm posing. We've known for a long time that consciousness is not psyhically quantifiable, hence the question of what consciousness actually is. It's not physical itself, but atleast it depends on physical things, the brain.
>>72140121
>I'm only retelling facts that have since long been established
Ghosts have long been established and have been taken as fact until a few centuries ago. It doesn't mean shit.
>>72140318
>That consciousness is not physical.
The proof is the fact that it isn't physical.
You can 'prove' this to yourself by just killing someone right now and split opening their brain.
>>72140445
YOU CANNOT TOUCH CONSCIOUSNESS = IT ISN'T PHYSICAL.
>>72135693
God confirmed for rapefugee who cuckolded Joseph
>>72140318
It's pretty easy to prove.
Remove someone's brain and see if they exhibit consciousness.
>>72138497
Nippon bringing the bantz as always
>>72140492
So no evidence, just an argument from ignorance?
THIS IS A PHYSICAL, MATERIAL THING THAT YOU CAN TOUCH.
YOU CANNOT TOUCH ''THOUGHTS''
THEREFORE CONSCIOUSNESS ISN'T PHYSICAL.
>>72135952
Elaborate for a retard please.
>>72131433
Christ fags BTFO.
Can we get a comment from them?
>>72131367
supergof
>>72140434
So you basically can't explain how the material brain, through electrochemicals magically conjures something that is not material (and that we are interacting with said non materials by virtue of them 'existing'), you just claim it does but can't back it up.
>>72140492
>YOU CANNOT TOUCH CONSCIOUSNESS = IT ISN'T PHYSICAL.
The act of touching itself is a conscious sensation. You're making a logical loophole here.
>>72140624
>So no evidence, just an argument from ignorance?
The evidence is self evident. Conciousness (thoughts) is not something you can touch and feel, therefore it isn't a physical thing.
Examples of physical things: Rocks, grass, trees, water, cows, sand, snails.
You can touch all of the above and feel them. You cannot do the same to ''thoughts'', therefore ''thoughts'' is not physical.
>>72140721
should say *is it itself
>>72140721
>The act of touching itself is a conscious sensation
Not only that, but it's a physical material thing that physically interacts with the material world. Consciousness doesn't do that. You cannot ''pick up'' thoughts from inside a brain, and throw it at someone.
>>72140492
That's the least intelligent thing I've read in a while. Are computer operations not physical because when you crack open a motherboard, you can't see the programs running anymore?
>>72140636
At extreme situations, either small scale or extreme temperatures etc. shit gets weird and materials tend towards their lower potential. In this case, the area below has lower gravitational potential so the superfluid helium tends towards the lower potential state below the container. It's similar to quantum tunneling but larger scale. Particles don't actually exist, they're just an approximation, everythings a wave, some just more localized than others.
>>72140728
>>72140628
Thoughts can be erased and recreated from electricity.
>>72140878
>That's the least intelligent thing I've read in a while
Probably because you have double digit IQ.
You cannot touch consciousness, therefore it isn't physical. It's that fucking simple.
>>72140878
>Are computer operations not physical because when you crack open a motherboard, you can't see the programs running anymore?
That's something COMPLETELY differnet. Because that's physically quantifiable.
>>72141005
>Thoughts can be erased and recreated from electricity.
No, and even if they could, that's not proof that thoughts and consciousness are material things. As has been stated many times before, whatever consciousness is, it is evidently derived from, and exists due to, material things.
>>72140812
>You cannot ''pick up'' thoughts from inside a brain, and throw it at someone.
because thoughts are hyper complex arrangements of neurons. It's not as simple as you suggest.
>>72141105
>it is evidently
there's that word again
>>72141163
>It's not as simple as you suggest.
I'm not suggesting it is something you can pick up and throw, I'm saying you CAN'T
>>72141105
Yes, they can.
http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/08/27/researcher-controls-colleagues-motions-in-1st-human-brain-to-brain-interface/
So it exists from and due to material things but it's not material because *mumble**mumble**new age hippy bullshit*
>>72141283
Oh, so consciousness now doesn't depend on the brain to exist?
Okay.
>>72135652
yes
>>72141356
no you just don't have evidence to back your claims but say otherwise.
>>72141337
>but it's not material because *mumble**mumble**new age hippy bullshit*
Nope, it isn't physical because you cannot pick it up and touch it. Therefore it isn't physical.
There's nothing new age bullshit about any of this, this is basic logic. You CAN NOT touch consciousness, therefore it IS NOT physical.
>>72139962
the burden of proof is on you, cunt
>>72141310
and I'm saying the premise of your argument is incoherent because you think you know what thoughts really are.
>>72141416
Are you retarded? YOU said to me earlier, as if I didn't know, that consciousness is derived from the brain which you specifically mentioned at that point, is a physical thing. I just wrote that consciousness is evidently -just that- and now you're claiming I don't have proof for something you initially wrote to me to begin with?
You people are trolling, there's no other explanation.
>>72141535
>because you think you know what thoughts really are.
.... No?
>You people are trolling, there's no other explanation.
>>72141337
go watch anime japan
>>72141458
But you can control it with electricity.
>>72141512
brain machine interfaces you poofter
>>72131433
/thread
>>72141605
>But you can control it with electricity.
Yes? Literally the function of the brain.
>>72141578
I can multi-task, besides it's a visual novel
>>72141605
>>72141669
Also it is the BRAIN that you are controlling with electricity, which IN TURN alters the consciousness.
>>72131367
God simply is. He was never created. He is the Creator.
"And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you."
Exodus 3:14
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Revelation 22:13
The TechnoCore
>>72131367
void lords
>>72141543
No lol you wrote that consciousness is a material thing. That was your claim, I was merely responding to it. You make the claim, you back it up with evidence.
>>72141794
immaterial thing* i mean
>>72141694
What part of the argument changes if you replace physical electricity with the physical brain?
>>72135693
No, its a failed god(lucifer, lord of light) that came from a god universe(heavenly realm)
Its in genesis. you know, the book that was written 6k years ago
>>72141794
>You make the claim, you back it up with evidence
The evidence is self evident. It ISN'T a material thing, therefore it IS a immaterial thing.
>>72141833
>What part of the argument changes if you replace physical electricity with the physical brain?
They don't somehow prove that consciousness is physical. The brain is the only thing that interacts with human consciousness. When you claim that you can ''control consciousness with electricity'', what those tests and studies ACTUALLY do, is PLAYING WITH THE BRAIN, which >>>>>> IN TURN <<<<<<<<< interacts with the human consciousness.
There isn't a single quantifable instance of interaction with consciousness bypassing the brain.
god doesn't exist! god damn you imbeciles! i anon, do not understand how thee can be so deluded! sigh.
>>72131367
God is the uncaused cause. If something created what you call God, then the creator of your God is the actual God.
>>72139779
Dont worry about these fools. I know exactly what you mean.
>We will be known as "Repairers of the Breach"
>>72142010
>There isn't a single quantifable instance of interaction with consciousness bypassing the brain.
So in summation there's no evidence consciousness isn't physical? Occams razor.
>>72131367 >>72131433
THE GOYIM
KNOW
SHIT
>>72131367
Man's need to explain why his life sucks so much cock. the more the life sucks the, more violent the god. that's why Islam was made by an illiterate goat fucking desert merchant and Buddhism was made by a former prince
>>72131433
Lmao well that sorts it.
>>72142089
A leaf says something intelligent!?
>>72131367
Which god are you referring to? There are hundreds and hundreds.
Metaphysical discussion is boring. I now declare this a Hate Catholics thread.
>>72142089
But then you have an infinite regress, and claiming that it ends at one point or another is arbitrary, and so you can never know with certainty what God is. So why even bother with the exercise? Just forget about God and all other idle, non-productive speculations and just focus on the knowable.
>>72142239
What you just wrote doesn't mean anything, so I'll just repeat myself again in the hope that you'll post something that makes sense.
There isn't a single instance quantifiable interaction with the consciousness has occured, that didn't happen through the brain.
>>72142364
If you use the extra flag script you'll see I'm a fleur-de-lys and not an actual leaf
>>72142010
>The evidence is self evident
that makes no sense at all. Are you saying it's self evident? because it isn't. Material things magically turning into non matter requires evidence.
>>72141723
Again with these retards
Repeating stupid said written by stupid people, if god wasnt created then I can claim the same for the universe
>>72142585
No. You can watch the carts of a train go by for minutes and minutes, but the engine pulling the whole thing forward still exists.
>>72142620
>Material things magically turning into non matter requires evidence.
I'm not claiming material things are ''''''turning into''''''''' non material things, although that is entirely possible and happens in countless instances (material things can become energy).
>that makes no sense at all. Are you saying it's self evident?
Yes it is.
Can you touch someone's thoughts? No? Then thoughts are not material.
>>72135813
>AI consumes whole universe to get enough matter an energy to cause the Big Bang
>goes back in time and creates it
Time Travel is the answer to everything!
![CZw5A2bWEAA29aL[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FSCLgOw.jpg "CZw5A2bWEAA29aL[1].jpg")
>>72142499
The one true god you heretic
>>72142608
So in summation there is not a single quantifiable shred of evidence that consciousness is separate from the physical brain.
>>72141005
Thanks. But then there's actually a causative force, an extreme temparature or a lower gravitational potential would be the cause for it to happen, the actual that actualises the potential. Sorry for the scientific illiteracy.
This thread is retarded
God might exist, if you define the force or object or thing that set time and the universe in motion but it's pretty fucking clear he doesn't give a shit about humans or the affairs of humans. So Abrahamic religions and their holy books can be rightly disregarded, as can pretty much any religion on Earth that is not deistic
>>72142912
>So in summation there is not a single quantifiable shred of evidence that consciousness is separate from the physical brain.
You're like a fucking child, do you know that? I'm glad to know you'll never accomplish much in your life other than to slave away for someone else.
Can you touch consciousness? No? I knew you couldn't, That proves that consciousness is not physical.
If you can't touch it and feel it, it's not material, it's as simple as that.
>>72142261
>islam was made by an illiterate goat fucker
>jesus was an illiterate goat herder
Christfags B T F O
>>72142741
>material things can become energy
Energy is matter too. Ever heard of special relativity?
>Can you touch someone's thoughts? No? Then thoughts are not material.
It's like saying can you touch a river, when in reality you're touching flowing water.
>>72136729
>He does not have to exist but his existence would give purpose and meaning to people. Also it would explain how thing came into existence. Aka caused the big bang
What if there is no meaning to anything and the attempt to pin a reason to existence is nothing but failing of the human mind to rationalize itself?
Perhaps the universe has no beginning and no end simply a everlasting chain of changes that occur forever.
>>72143161
>It's like saying can you touch a river, when in reality you're touching flowing water.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Holy fucking shit, oh my fucking god hahahahaha
>>72142089
Imovable Mover is a very poor theory. It simply moves the problem with origin rather than solve it.
>>72131367
I did
>>72142739
But what made the engine? Another engine? Then you have infinite regress problem. If you say that the engine has no cause, then you are establishing that not everything needs a cause. If that is the case, then why seek a cause to the universe? Just accept *that* as causeless and be done with it. No need to enter into the realm of speculations on unprovable, unknowable things. To do so is pointless.
You are God without ego.
Who is the one who destroys ego?
Conscious suffering.
Have a bad day.
>>72143015
>Can you touch consciousness?
Yes, with electrodes it can be molded freely.
>>72143015
That's just a state of being, if its environment is changed there is no action but the exact same causative force must by definition still exist if there was one. If the bowl was for example an indent in a table nothing has fundamentally changed in the fluid system and yet there is no motion.
>>72131562
He commited holy suicide for having infinite stories to tell but noone to listen sucks
>>72143140
>the most important point of history is the born of Christ
>>72132440
F-fedora!!!
>>72136586
Is Windows the soul of a computer? Its not matter or energy so it must be a soul.
>>72142736
You're the one acting like a retard.
>>72143247
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule
>>72143267
No, it's an essential characteristic of God, among others. So OP's question is just a category error instead of a legitimate question.
>>72143347
No, you just need one thing that doesn't have a cause and, like the train engine, everything else will follow. Keep in mind a train only needs one engine, but a cart at the back needs every cart before it to move, or it won't move at all.
>>72143378
>Yes, with electrodes it can be molded freely.
No, you're lying because you know you're wrong. You can only mold the BRAIN, which - IN TURN - affects consciousness.
>>72143537
Then explain what's wrong with his statement.
Surely a god that can create universes being eternal requires a larger leap of faith than an eternal universe.
>>72143569
YOU CAN TOUCH WATER
YOU CAN'T TOUCH CONSCIOUSNESS
You cannot POSSIBLY make a comparison between the two to prove that you can indeed touch consciousness therefore it's material
WATER = YOU CAN TOUCH
CONSCIOUSNESS = YOU CAN'T TOUCH
>>72143504
Windows is stored on a hard drive using matter, Windows would be like your memories that give your life structure and meaning
>>72131367
monkey
>>72143241
>What if there is no meaning to anything and the attempt to pin a reason to existence is nothing but failing of the human mind to rationalize itself?
As i said it gives meaning to people.
The idea that meaning exist is enough for most people.
Perhaps the universe has no beginning and no end simply a everlasting chain of changes that occur forever.
It might
However i do not believe this I think the universe once started and will end in entropy
>>72143593
Do you have any proof they are separate? To quote an esteemed philosopher in this thread.
>There isn't a single instance quantifiable interaction with the consciousness has occured, that didn't happen through the brain.
>>72131367
super god, who was created by mega god, who was created by ultra god and so on.
>>72143871
>Do you have any proof they are separate?
Yes, they are separate.
>1 + 1 = 3
>''no''
>PROVE IT LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
This is why civilization will collapse
>>72143987
>Do you have any PROOF they are separate
>>72143705
You can touch neurons the same way you can touch water molecules. Consciousness is basically neurons in action, the same way a river is flowing water.
Is that too hard to grasp?
>>72144053
Yes, the PROOF is that they ARE separate. Consciousness is a non physical thing that you 'think', the brain is a physical thing which governs all our functions, including consciousness.
>>72144046
yea give it 10 years
i hope what it comes is better
>>72144094
>Consciousness is basically neurons in action
Nope
>the same way a river is flowing water.
You're trolling. You can't touch consciousness, you can touch the water flowing in a river.
![dilbert[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/X5MOHbx.gif "dilbert[1].gif")
>>72143750
So consciousness isn't stored in your brain?
![500px-Principia_Mathematica_54-43[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/o68Kucu.png "500px-Principia_Mathematica_54-43[1].png")
>>72144046
(pic related)
>>72144120
That is not proof, that is belief.
>>72144149
I fucking hate high technology.
>>72144298
>That is not proof, that is belief.
No, the fact that CONSCIOUSNESS and THE BRAIN are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS is not a belief, it's a FACT.
>>72131433
Ayyy
>>72144403
Then surely you have evidence.
>>72144188
>you can touch the water flowing in a river.
but can you actually touch a river?
>Nope
Consciousness is shaped by brain activity, you're the one who said it. Without brain activity there is no consciousness. So you're proving yourself wrong.
>>72144509
>Then surely you have evidence.
Yes, the evidence is that consciousness and the brain are two different things.
>>72135319
A finite universe cannot be eternal
>>72142499
There is only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.
All others are satanic imitations (like Allah) and/or human creations like pagan/hindu gods.
Fedoras are actualy angry because they've been lied into believing all religions are the same and they aren't. Most don't even bother to check.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16
>>72144536
>but can you actually touch a river?
''River'' is the name given to water that runs in a certain way.
>Consciousness is shaped by brain activity,
Yes
>Without brain activity there is no consciousness
Yes
>So you're proving yourself wrong.
In regards to what? And no, I haven't proven myself wrong on any account.
>>72143378
Then causality is not anymore necessary?
