calling all comrades!
We've been censored for the last time!
Some of you may have noticed a perfectly legitimate thread on /r9k/ full of serious discussion and camaraderie has been deleted for no reason at all, and we all know that anything posted here on /pol/ will be shitposted to hell. It's time to be heard. Post all thigns leftist in this thread and convince asian moot that a /leftypol/ is needed.
Pic related is exactly what is wrong with Leftist. Entire idea that Capitalism itself is a conspiracy to keep the poor man down. The only leftist I respect are the anti-authoritarian ones
>>72065009
Fuck commies
>>72065252
The vast majority of leftists are anti-authoritarian. Which makes sense because transitioning through a period of state capitalism to socialism has been proven countless times to be a miserable failure.
>>72065335
but anon, all we want to do is allow workers to benefit from the proceeds of their own labor.
>>72065427
Yes we do. That's why I'm voting Trump.
TAKE A HIKE KIKE
>>72065499
but trump has the interest of the bourgeoisie in mind. He will continue to encourage nationalism and and identity politics in general and OP pic related will happen. The more people fight instead of working together to take control of the means of production the more the bourgeoisie will be able to profit from our labor.
>>72065659
>control of the means of production
Holy fuck 100 years later commies are still spouting this shit
>>72065811
It's fairly simple: workers working for an employer will be paid a wage that allows the employer to profit from their labor. Workers working for themselves will benefit from their own labor.
>>72065811
thats what communism is fucktard
>>72065958
>being fiesty about it
pls comrade, we're trying to build camaraderie with the workers not alienate them
>>72065009
How do you handle lazy people?
How do you ensure everyone does their fair share?
How do you split of the gains?
How do you handle sick/disabled/etc?
Actually, nah, fuck this, it's a nazi thread now.
>>72065958
Bet you think Stalin and Mao weren't true communism too
>>72066177
>>72066224
>>72065009
They made it again.
>>>/qa/507877
>>72066266
>>72066319
>>72066364
This is now a Reichthread
>be born in the easiest era of human history
>starvation is literally impossible for anyone not retarded
>millennia of artistic progress at your fingertips
>"duuUUUuururr?!??! how cum dey rich and im only taken care of for life? Huruu DUUURrrruRRR?!?!?!"
>>72066406
>>72066404
Who /leftynationalist/ here? I was a hardcore commie when I came here, /pol/ kind of distorted my view on race/nation. I can relate emotionally to nationalistic feelings, and preserving existing culture.
Voted Sanders, probably voting Trump even though I find his privacy policy, economic policy, overall everything about him terrible.
At least he isn't a neocon globalist like Hillary. I'm starting to think globalism is inherently right-winged. They want every economy to be super-connected so the wealthy can get extremely wealthy, and everyone exists as a lower-"middle" class wageslave.
>>72066319
Did he actually say this?
>>72066434
>Select all images with juice
>>72066414
It's the demiurge's fault, he could've made us without suffering and pain.
>>72066466
I'm not your google.
>>72066085
Good questions, but leftists come in many different forms and have many different answers to these. I'll give you the answers that suite anarcho-syndicalism.
>how do you handle lazy people
The incentive to work will be a pay just like any other system, it's just that the pay will gradually shift away from fiat capital to physical capital. The idea is that peopel will do the jobs they want to do in return for the stuff that they want.
>how do you ensure everyone gets their fair share
In workers federations distribution of resources will be decided democratically, some people will prefer a meritocracy while others will prefer a flat share, still others will prefer a first come first serve system with stockpiles
>split gains
Again, this is up to the workers federations, everything will be decided democratically, but commonly what happens is that all the value produced from the labor goes to a common pool and then it is decided how much of it will be sent off as dues to the federation (so that new workers federations can be built), how much of it will be split among the workers, and how much will be spent on upgrades to the industry.
>sick/disabled
In anarcho-syndicalism all services by worker owned industries, so these services will operate for free and supply as much help as they can in exchange for having their own demands met.
>it's ANOTHER /leftypol/ shill episode
>>72066444
>voting for class warfare
>against a unified nation
>calling yourself a nationalist
family, please
He died for your sins,
>>72066480
>>72066524
>>72066480
>>72066444
>>72066434
>>72066406
>>72066404
>>72066364
>>72066319
>>72066266
This is exactly why we need a /leftypol/
>>72066524
>he could've made us without suffering and pain.
suffering is necessary bb
>>72066142
nazi's were leftist
hitler was a leftist
fuck /pol/tard get it through your head already
>>72066572
>leftists
>shills
For whom?
>ze jews
The jews are pro-capitalist
>>72065009
>commies
>>72066572
Will the white race reconquer the world?
>>72066617
Commiecuck triggered by hurtful images?
Eat shit
>>72065009
/pol/ is politically incorrect, not politically correct.
>>72066633
>falling for the left/right meme
Go away Ted Cruz
>>72066621
But he could've made us so developed that it would not be.
>>72066617
There already is one on the other chan. Right here, why do you need it- You're triggered? Fucking kill yourself.
>>72066721
No, infact I'm pleased that you are demonstrating perfectly why a /leftypol/ board is needed.
>>72066637
>The jews are pro-capitalist
Are you sure about that, m8?
>>72066675
Mi general Augusto Pinochet
>>72066795
They were SOCIALISTS.
Hitler's ideology was called National SOCIALISM for gods sake. I'm done, fuck you rightist retards.
>>72066795
>>72065909
Can't the workers just all get an equal share of the profits (separate from their actual salaries) that are not reinvested into the company?
>>72066721
The dump continues
>>72066872
>focusing on names
>instead of policy
gas yourself
>>72066892
>living off of other people's money
sounds like socialism if you ask me
>born too late to fight in the spanish revolution
>born too early for luxary space communism
>born just in time to change the political tides of a chan
feels dank as fuck man.
>>72066950
>>72066813
Stay mad bolshevik
>>72066831
all he did was lead his country to the most prosperity in south america
>>72066977
>it's a Marxoid drone tells us nothing matters but productivity and material conditions episode
>>72067010
Which is why Nazi Germany didn't have a large dependent underclass
>>72067015
end dump
finishing off with a nice pic of beautiful pic of Slovak countryside
>>72066977
The NAZIs supported socialist policies
Dear lord I hope this is bait
Gas yourself anarchist
Tell me one bad thing about communism.
>>72066795
>But he could've made us so developed that it would not be.
Nope
>>72066921
I think you might be talking about worker's co-ops which are a lefty form of organization. Worker's co-ops are very very scarce. The last stat I saw was that there were something like 350 million people in america of which 3.5 thousand are in worker's co-ops.
Some small businesses might have worker representation, but the vast majority of businesses make sure to exploit as much surplus labor from the worker's as possibel because the profit driven motive is what drives this society's economy.
>>72067160
>Gas yourself anarchist
How the fuck do you get that I'm an anarchist from my support of Hitler? kek
>The NAZIs supported socialist policies
like what senpai
>>72067201
(here's your reply about stalinist/maoist state capitalism)
>>72067201
Results in divided nation and serves none but the jews.
>>72067201
It is a very unrealist end dream
>>72066587
Rich people want to globalize and want to displace us with shitskins.
Globalism IS hyper-capitalism. It's innately a right-wing class warfare tactic to get cheap labor
>>72067268
https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian
>capitalist
>supports Hitler
Please die miserably, Hitler wasn't capitalist white trash like you, he spat on your kind
You deserve the hell you're going to you pathetic disgrace, don't ever call yourself a Hitler supporter.
>>72067358
Yeah, and the insane left end of the spectrum wants also to break down borders. Note that it's communists out there on the picket line in support of them.
Reject class politics my man
>>72067255
Well, cooperatives are a lot more common in here. Plus, we have something like I suggested in the constitution, but I doubt most companies do that. Only ones I remember right now are a few state banks
>>72067333
Y'know lad, there are very practical ways to reach it. I suggest you look up anarcho-syndicalist, even if you don't like anarchism I think you might find their economic model very interesting. Workers start up their own worker owned businesses and compete with capitalist industry. It's something that is in the interest of everyone except for maybe the bourgeoisie.
>>72067311
It serves the capitalists to keep us divided and fighting over spooks such as the Jews though, friend.
>>72065009
SHOO SHOO COMMIE JEW
>>72067201
Chaim Hirschel Mordechai
Maxs other name
>>72067201
>Unironically posting the kike ploy binary to wipe out Europe as predicted by anon.
Jesus mate get a grip you stupid cunt.
>>72065009
Leftys get out REEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
Communists and Capitalists are two sides of the same coin. Both are internationalist/globalist, materialist, anti-nationalist, anti-tradition, concerned with nothing but wealth and luxury, both motivated by selfishness and individualism.
>>72065009
Why do you need a /leftypol/? There is no /rightwingpol/ or /ancappol/ either. Everyone can post his ideas on /pol/, this is much better than creating little echo chambers.
>>72067600
Better Sanders than Hillary, at least
>>72067447
Let's first note that your article notes that its author, mises, is right about the only person that proposes this idea.
>What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government.
That's laughable right there. Tell it to the Von Krupps and the Junkers.
Fact is, you're wrong, Hitler believed in limited capitalism and not total consumerism, now gas yourself.
>>72067138
Hitler told the German people to help each other out in times of need, not for the government to do so. Very similar to Herbert Hoover in the depression.
>>72067538
No, it serves ourselves to end their shenanigans and get rid of them once and for all by acting as a united nation and people while rejecting class politics.
>>72067692
because this is ancappol and rightwingpol
>>72065009
How do you get over the economic calculation problem and labour theory of value? How do you get over the fact any "public" good is literally not in demand (otherwise people would voluntarily purchase it)?
>>72065659
Why is nationalism against your narrative? Globalism seeks to lay waste to the average proletariat in the interest of the owning class. Why are you against strong borders and nationalism then?
>>72067817
Well, what can be said? Marketplace of ideas means the truth always wins.
Thanks, free market (of ideas)!
>>72066557
> Payment goes from flat capital to physical capital
So if someone doesn't work, they die? All jobs pay the same? So if there are only 3 doctors in the world and 10,000 manufacturers they all get paid the same? Who distributes the money and will that be an easy job? Who decides whats fair?
> People will do the jobs they want to get the stuff they want
If 10 people want to be the tax collector and nobody wants to be the coal miner, who mines coal? If everyone wants food from farm A and nobody wants it from Farm B but Farm A is far away from many places, how do solve this?
What insentive to farmers have to produce more than their family needs? Does all personal property become nationalized?
I also feel like /pol/ is too fast for proper leftist threads. A /leftypol/ would be dank and slow and much dialectics would be had.
>>72065009
I'm gonna laugh at you commie cunts when robots can do everything and capital IS labor.
You dumb Marxist cunts will be demanding equal pay for equal turds soon enough.
>>72067494
I associate with leftism because I do think that a welfare nation is possible and desirable.
You need a nation with high trust, homogeneity. Maybe even restrict to a town-level.
I'm not a diehard leftist. I'm a nationalist first now. We probably agree on most things but I do think class warfare exist. People always try to screw over other people for money, directly or indirectly it doesn't matter.
>>72067817
It's not. You are free to post whatever opinion you hold. And everyone is free to critizise. Do you want an echo chamber instead?
>>72067255
Ya know, for all the shit I give the left I actually really do like workers co-ops. I would love to join one on the following conditions.
1. I had to buy in for my share
2. I got a proportional share of the profits based on my service and my buy in share
3. I had direct say in the lay out and future of the company and its policies
4. I got a say in firing and hiring of fellow employees
Any more good stuff to add? I'm interested in this because I think on a small scale with invested and intelligent people it really can work.
>>72067889
I am against nationalism and religion and practically everything else trump stands for because those things are used by the bourgeoisie to pit workers against each other.
Additionally, these things are obstacles that prevent workers from having a materialist view on their situation. Due to affiliation with race nationality or religion they are hesitant to break away from the established values to try something like working for their own interest.
>>72067952
>would be dank
>dank
you must be 18 years old to post on this site
Hey guys I just got home from my 9-5 slave job in the word trade centers
>>72067952
>*unsheathes katana*
>2deep4you, kid
>>72067718
You hardly read half the article. Please stop arguing. You're not a neo-NAZI, just a dumb racist trying to identify with a group.
Also capitalism == consumerism
>>72068262
What's bad about consumerism?
>>72068009
>I associate with leftism because I do think that a welfare nation is possible and desirable.
nnnngh. I agree with the idea that there will always be some on hard times that need to be taken care of, but when you abide dependency (and most welfare states end up doing this), you put a stopper on initiative. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should provide people incentive to take on their problems by themselves, if they are so able. Welfare states often blunt that.
>We probably agree on most things but I do think class warfare exist.
Yes, I'll say it does- it's perpetuated by the workers on the bourgeois through unions and strikes, and on the workers by the bourgeois through many other means. It's a two way street, but these interests can be reconciled.
>>72068121
All of that sounds great, especially because co-ops typically have to be like corporations in order to establish themselves.
However, it would be cool if you also accepted this condition:
5. The co-op will be part of a larger worker's federation to which your co-op would pay a small due not any larger than a union due, something like 10%
Doing this would allow you to have legal representation, worker-owned services like insurance and perhaps even a credit-union, and the money can even be used to subsidize new co-op so that anyone can start a worker owned businesses. The more co-ops are subsidized the more dues the federation will obtain and the more co-ops can be started, and the more powerful the chain is the more representation and power every worker will have.
If you like this idea then congrats, you probably like anarcho-syndicalism.
OP is a faggot
>>72068331
It ruins capitalism and promotes the production of bad products
>>72065335
this made me kek
>>72068262
>You hardly read half the article. Please stop arguing.
That's because the article's basic fucking premise was wrong lmaooooo
>You're not a neo-NAZI, just a dumb racist trying to identify with a group.
I disagree with you, therefore I'm wrong. Lmao.
>Also capitalism == consumerism
false see pic related
>>72068448
How so?
>>72068132
I don't agree with your assessment. I'm not even arguing for Trump here, i'm gonna go ahead and say that this is a pipe dream that will never be achieved until you fix human nature. People will take advantage of the working class from all angles, and I certainly don't see a dictatorship of the proletariat on a large scale.
>>72068331
consumerism is one of the reasons why people buy shit products that they hate, but the more important thing about it is that it's one of the side effects of a profit-driven market economy.
Here are some other ailments caused by the profit motive:
>planned obsolescence
>monopolistic competition
>commercial advertising
>poor working conditions
>filling products with fillers and skirting ethical boundaries in general
>putting profit above things like the environment
>lobbying
>>72068132
Stupid cunt, there is no "classes" where does the 'working class' end and 'middle class' begin? 30k? Why not 29k? This is all economic illiteracy and kikery to divide your people. You are a völk whether you like it or not; either you work for you and your peoples intrests, or you work for others. You dance to your own tune, or you dance to someone elses. If everyone is European, no one is.
>>72068711
Well said lad, have a mosley vid as thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No1ZmYiKeRY
>>72068613
>fix human nature
the thing is, communists are just as selfish as everyone else, it's just that we realize we'll never be bourgeoisie so we try to benefit the most from our labor by working in worker owned industries.
Stop buying into the equality meme lad. Sure, there might be more equality, but what it's really about is having a fucking chance to do the labor you actually want to do, get compensated for it, and basically be able to afford luxury.
>>72068668
>consumerism is one of the reasons why people buy shit products that they hate
Do they? I have never seen this Tbh. Most people tend to spend their hard earned money on things they want or need.
>>72068468
Pic related explains how "unbindled" capitalism promotes consumerism. Is this bait now?
>>72068711
>where does working class end and middle class begin
wew lad.
the "middle class" is the working class.
There are two very well defined classes:
>bourgeoisie: control industry and use this to take surplus value
>proletariat: work under the bourgeoisie
income inequality is fake
>>72068937
No, it's drawing the distinction between capitalism and consumerism, which you said didn't exist.
>>72065009
leftards all fall under one of three categories:
1. government employee/agent
2. college student
3. uneployed loser
>>72068893
You've got to be kidding me.
People waste their money all the time.
>credit cards
>frivolous spending on luxury cars
>gotta have that latest new ishit
>gotta have all that brand name clothing
etc
>>72068958
S,o the guy working at the kebab shop who is employing his two cousins and is earning enough to get by is part of the bourgeoisie and your class enemy?
>>72067952
man it's like I'm seeing the image of that kike with a person mask on when I read this, like you almost sound like an anon, almost
>>72069155
That's called a petite-bourgeoisie
in examples like that there is not much difference between the business owner and management. This is not the enemy, though it would be better in every way if the business was worker controlled.
>>72069086
But people like these luxury goods, thats why they are buying them. And if they decide to spend their money that way, what is wrong about this?
>>72069352
But now we are back at the original point. Where is the line between the two? It's arbitrary.
>>72069405
You asked for examples of consumerism and I gave them to you. People are encouraged to spend spend spend and that is what is meant by consumerism. You might not be opposed to it personally, but a lot of people are. People are being tricked into debt.
>>72066608
and now a turkroach dares to use his face for his shitty forced meme
>>72069548
It's not arbitrary my friend. A petitie-bourgoisie is a worker of their business as well as someone that profits from the labor of their workers. The regular bourgeoisie are the type that own a franchise and exploit lots of people's labor while doing minimal management or the folks that turn their business into a corporation so that they do literally no work at all and profit of people's labor since the business becomes its own self containing entity complete with management.
>>72066617
Or you could put up with the shitposts, just like the rest of /pol/ has to put up with your shitposts in rightwing threads.
>>72069155
This.^
You; >>72068958 are an idiot mate. You think the "capitalist" (krauts day to day kebab shop man) is some skimming off the top kike?
Fucking moron, capital is required for alot of economic exchange, where are you going to get your machinery to build with you prole scum, local co-ops? Get a grip. Some book clerk turned supreme leader's soviet era shitshow factory? Good luck with that. Do you know why Africa is a shithole? No private property rights, no capital investment, and the best they can do is bend over to chinese commies to build thier fucking roads that a free society could do 59x cheaper. Get a grip you daft bastard. There is no class, their is your people and thier liberty and those who try to pull you asunder. In the case of America, very well pulled under indeed. How the mighty have fallen, and to be soon overrun with subhuman hordes.
>>72069801
>implying this ever happens
>>72069570
I asked what's wrong with consumerism and you told me people would buy shit they hate. I don't think this is accurate.
Now you switched to the topic of debt, which I do not think is neccessarily related to consumerism.
>>72069905
What I meant by products they hate is that people feel coerced to buy things because they are trendy. Those silly rubber band wristbands, a shitty meme sticker, overpriced pop culture tshirts, these are some more examples of consumerism.
Look up the society of the spectacle, it'll explain this much better than I am trying to.
hey guys this is my ID, sorry about the glitch
everyone is equal and deserves exactly the same everything, especially money because I am a jealous person
rich people who create wealth are the enemy
we should sympathize more with niggers who go into debt because they're fucking stupid
communism is practically a science, we have put so much thought into it
are you kidding me? you disagree with me? this is why we need a /leftypol/ (even though pretty much the rest of the internet is leftist and even the parts that aren't all pretty much have their leftist enclaves)
>>72068121
But co-ops can exist under the capitalist economic model, while it would be a gulag sentence to try and establish a captialist corp under a communist economic model. In the end, this exposes communism for what it really is, totalitarian.
Fuck off, commies
>>72069791
Arbitrary bollocks.
There is nothing wrong with any voluntary agreement you stupid fuckwit. Inb4 you start bleating on about how being human and mortal is 'coersion' and 'work or starve' is bad and how the solution is to literally coerse people with violence to relinquish property to others, completly unironically.
You judeo-socialist filth really are the worst, the enemies of our people.
>>72069791
Let's say the owner of the kebab shop is not working there and only managing the shop, making enough to get by. Is he a part of the bourgeoisie now, while someone employed in the right profession might earn ten times his wage while being part of the proletariat?
You are talking about how little the bourgeoisie is working, what if a manager is working 14 hours a day to keep his company running? Is he a part of the bourgeoisie?
>>72070199
What the fuck is going on in that picture? I don't get it.
>>72068000
Universal Basic Income
there wont be any jobs left for biological thinking or manual labor well within our expected lifetimes.
if you don't want to not inevitably get everything for free you should go ahead. an hero.
>>72068830
> communists are just as selfish as everyone else
Thanks for admitting that.
>we try to benefit the most from our labor by working in worker owned industries.
I understand that ever since the industrial revolution the worker has been disconnected from the product and gains of his work. I've read Marx enough to keep up here.
Like I said in previous posts, the co-op is great, but I would rather keep it small scale. I think in the terms that you laid out such as having it spread on a massive scale leaves too much corruption potential. Putting 10% in a fund to further more co-ops sounds nice, but it sounds eerily reminiscent of something like the politburo. I simply can't trust an agency like that to not siphon funds for themselves.
>>72065909
Why should some drone worker be entitled to "the means of production", when they're not putting up the capital for it, not taking on the risk involved, not handling all the various overhead costs, etc?
Oh fuck my sides, go to /leftypol/ and check out their occasional shill operation threads, what a bunch of fucking losers, this is ACTUALLY what they waste their time doing
>>72066617
>>>/r/eddit
>>72070385
>what are we going to do when all the farming jobs are taken by machines?
>95% of jobs will be taken in our lifetime
fuck off
KEK
>>72070241
>>72070202
Read what I wrote again. Big difference between someone that is working and someone that is exploiting tons of people for their surplus value.
Also, people do not have a choice but to work for an employer most of the time, they require initial investment capital to start a business, and even if they do they will likely be that poor kebab shop owner who is basically a worker in management.
>>72070537
>>72070198
>But co-ops can exist under the capitalist economic model
Sure can, I would rather be in one under capitalist rule than communist rule. Problem is, I don't see them praised near enough by capitalists. I tried to start one myself at a former place of employment and people just didn't give a shit too.
>>72070113
If this is what they want to spend their money on, why not? It seems to make them happy, otherwise they would not buy this stuff. I can't really see anything bad about buying a rubber wrist band you like.
And everyone is free to make their own decision, like an adult should be.
>>72070415
Actually, in a syndicalist system there will be risk involved and the worker's federation provides the initial investment capital for starting new businesses. You won't be a drone anyways, the whole point of starting a worker's co-op is to get what you want as a worker. Unlike in a capitalist industry where you will likely be stuck in a job you hate obeying orders nonstop.
>/pol/ will never embrace the master race that is socially far right economic leftism
>>72065659
We have no kndustry. All the poor people work in the service sector. You're retarded
>>72070578
>Problem is, I don't see them praised near enough by capitalists.
>capitalist
>praising co-op
pick one and only one
retard
Is this thread satire? I can't tell anymore...
>>72070731
>/pol/ will never embrace communism
no
>>72070387
I think your concerns are very valid. You might like Proudhon's mutualism. It's an ancap-y economic system that advocates co-ops.
![[free coats heard in the distance].png](https://i.imgur.com/RiflN49.jpg "[free coats heard in the distance].png")
>>72070537
wew lad
also can someone just start dumping the c-u-c-kold porn already
>>72070542
Where is the line between working as a manager and exploiting people?
I know a few people working in management positions and they are the hardest working people I know.
>>72065009
can't wait till you get what you want and whites are a minority in all former white countries, just so I can laugh and say I told you so as the world burns
>>72070917
read this post for the third time
>>72069791
>>72070731
So national socialism?
I'm serious here, how much of a loser must you be to dedicate your time shilling for communism on a Mongolian throat singing board
>>72071054
this much: >>72067297
Awwww they 404d it
>>72070828
>socially far right
>communism
pick one
Also economic leftism doesn't imply communism, don't buy into the materialist bs about communism and capitalism being the only possibilities. Read up on corporatism, distributism and non-Marxist forms of socialism to get a better idea of what can be done wrt economics without reducing man to a purely financial being.
>>72071009
It's nothing but platitudes, "exploitation" is an incredibly broad term.
>>72070794
Of course they aren't going to praise them. Why would investors want an educated work force that takes their profits and invests their own capital? If anything this just exposes a major flaw in capitalism. Keep people smart enough to run the machines and dumb enough to passively accept their shitty position in life.
>>72070542
It's not exploitation, thier labour is what ot is you illiterate cunt. Im working on peanuts at mc ds before I start new job. Why is it peanuts? Because any stupod nigger can do this job.
I'm not being exploited no matter how much ceo takes, don't like it? I can literally work elsewhere if I want to you daft cretin its a voluntary agreement, unlike your bolshevik nonsence where half of moscow queues up for crewmember job at mc ds in USSR as its literally better than the bread queues and complelty fucked up labour.prices from decades of the economic calculation problem, now fuck off you're giving everyone here cancer.
>>72071208
It's still up, that's just a glitch with the site
that site sucks that's why ther ehave been so many lefties on here lately
>>72065009
If you adhere to Marx, you need to die.
Violently and brutally.
>>72071208
kek
>>72066404
Is that supposed to affirm that the Holohoax isn't a hoax?
>>72071362
Eh, it's more of a meme, like the communists with their walls. Let's not kid ourselves, some jews were gassed- the communists and bankers that deserved it!
>>72071241
>Why would investors want an educated work force
How the fuck do you exist then?
The fact that we are having the conversation is proof of the utter bullshit of your post.
Please kill yourself.
>Capital and the Debt Trap reports that "cooperatives tend to have a longer life than other types of enterprise, and thus a higher level of entrepreneurial sustainability". A 2013 report published by the UK Office for National Statistics showed that in the UK the rate of survival of cooperatives after five years was 80 percent compared with only 41 percent for all other enterprises.[30] A further study found that after ten years 44 percent of cooperatives were still in operation, compared with only 20 percent for all enterprises" (p. 109). This resilience has been attributed to how cooperatives share risks and rewards between members, how they harness the ideas of many and how members have a tangible ownership stake in the business. Additionally, "cooperative banks build up counter-cyclical buffers that function well in case of a crisis," and are less likely to lead members and clients towards a debt trap (p. 216). This is explained by their more democratic governance that reduces perverse incentives and subsequent contributions to economic bubbles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative
>>72071232
He wont give a proper answer because he can't and if he tries to argue he'll btfo himself by violating the presupposition of argumentation. Wouldn't surprise me if he's a reddit tier shill.
>entire economic theory predicated upon the concept that you can't own anything larger than a backpack
nty, think I'll keep my private property. Rather not live in gommie blocks with a bunch of hobos thanks
>>72071302
That's why I don't bother with cripple chan anymore it's so shitty
>>72071232
let me simplify it for you:
>business owner makes 20 dollars an hour off of worker x
>business owner pays worker x 8 dollars an hour
>worker x's surplus value is taken
This could all be avoided if the initial investment capital for the business was provided by a worker's federation and the business owner had no reason to exist.
A worker's co-op would work like this:
>worker x makes 20 bucks an hour
>the co-op decided that 30% of that will goto the common pool for paying dues to the worker federation so they can start new co-ops or for reinvesting in the business
>worker x gets 14 bucks an hour and the other 6 is indirectly reinvested back in him
>>72071245
check this out: >>72071652
>>72071652
>>the co-op decided that 30% of that will goto the common pool for paying dues to the worker federation so they can start new co-ops or for reinvesting in the business
nigger i want the job at the workers federation.
sit on my ass all day and collect 30% of someone else's labor.
top tier explotaion there.
>>72071788
Okay you'll be replaced with someone that wants the higher pay and will actually work for it.
>>72071472
Top tier angst right there. Thanks for the chimp out anon.
>>72071652
>the business doesn't provide advertising, legal protections, capital infrastructure and impersonality, or anything else of value, to the worker/consumer
in reality, you are paid what you are worth, unless you are a poor negotiator.
>>72071959
And in a capitalist structure he wouldn't be?
>>72071992
>And in a capitalist structure he wouldn't be?
That's precisely the point. Business is business.
>in reality, you are paid what you are worth, unless you are a poor negotiator.
The whole point of worker federations is to provide "legal protections, capital infrastructure and impersonality, or anything else of value, to the worker/consumer"
>>72071652
Ok, now you doged my question and told me the kebab shop owner shouldn't be there anyways. I guess I'll never know who the class enemy is, then.
Who controls these co-ops? The government? Is it a voluntary collective? Who decides how the company is run and what new investments are made? Are the workers free to choose and deny any job accordi g to their liking? Is there a difference in the payment between workers with different performance or position?
>>72070653
The commie doesn't understand the feeling of agency does he? Everything is someone else's fault. Its almost comical.
>>72071959
>>72071979
The fact that you can't see how ripe for corruption this setup is, dumbfounds me.
You are literally advocating people sitting in a office and getting 30% of someone else's labor just cause.
Granted some will be spent on starting new co-ops, etc., but some will be going straight into the pocket of this executive is as pay, exploiting the 'working class'. This idea is literally self defeating by the tenents of your ideology.
>>72071652
Yeah, or you just get bob billionaire to set up the initial capital because your co-op is manned by reddot tier illiterates.
Also a voluntary co-op is not incompatible with a free society, so your point is irrelevant. Namely: what makes initial investment by one person "bad"and yet many persons, " good"? How can individuals acting in a covenant somehow fundamentally change what they are doing?
Also is this co-op state enforced? If so then it's not.actually.in demand and you BTFO yourself by engaging im argumentation in the first place (which.presupppses norms such as private property and self.ownership).
You commie tier.plebs.are.the.worst enemies.of our volk.
>>72071712
(You)ing yourself.
Wew lad, raid confirmed.
>>72065009
Fuck off back to cripplechan you faggot
>>72072180
I think this post answered some of your question:
>>72066557
But to summarize: the federation is a democratic entity comprised of worker owned industries that provides the capital for workers to start new worker controlled industries and also provides them things like legal services. The federation is paid for by dues not unlike union dues, except the difference with union dues is you are already being taxed by your employer and then the union taxes you again, whereas dues to a worker federation of worker controlled industries will not be double taxation.
>>72072256
Yeah, this is a pattern I noticed.
>People are being coerced into buying stuff
Top kek, they literally think everyone is either retarded or a child.
>>72072276
Stop clumping me in with the commie. Calm down, read the posts and have an intelligent conversation without acting like a nigger. I already said the exact same thing you're saying.
>>72072276
Why would anyone be allowed to just sit around? Democratic workers control mean workers can kick out exploiters.
>>72072433
But that wasn't real communism, real communism hasn't been tried :^)
>>72072566
Is there going to be a a state agency that inspects this workers federation for corruption?
Will you take the 'execs' at their word that they are doing right by you?
>>72067201
>implying that progressives, marxists and authortian right wing aren't all equally shit
>not being part of the right wing libertarian master race
Fucking plebs.
>>72072747
The whole point of anarcho-syndicalism is that it's ruled from the bottom up. Workers represent themselves in the federation. The will be no ruler that can be corrupted. Every worker owned industry in the federation will vote and have its say and make it's troubles heard.
>>72071208
>/g/
>left leaning
Christ this guy is a fucking retard. /g/ is libertarian, just like most people in computing are.
>>72072463
How will this system be put into place? Will you prohibit businesses that aren't run democratically? How do you imagine moving away from fiat money? Do you really want to start trading items again? In all honesty, how efficient do you believe this system is going to be?
Taking into consideration that there are very few highly intelligent people and many average or less intelligent people, how well do you think such a company would be lead, compared to the traditional model?
>>72065009
Class traitors out in full force today.
>>72072824
This.
Based Hoppe for days.
>>72072950
You seem to be missing the point.
What happens when someone rises up the anarcho-syndicalist ladder to a position of management, starts cooking the books well enough to cover their tracks leaving no one below them the wiser?
At this point the system, due to it;s setup, just became exploitative.
also:
> The will be no ruler that can be corrupted.
wew lad
>>72066085
>How do you handle lazy people?
"He who does not work, neither shall he eat"
-Lenin
>How do you ensure everyone does their fair share?
"He who does not work, neither shall he eat"
-Lenin
>How do you split of the gains?
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" -Marx
You get the equivalent of what you put in.
>How do you handle sick/disabled/etc?
Society collectively helps them through welfare programs, similarly to what we do now.
There's already a /leftypol/.
It's called /his/.
>>72073209
Daily reminder labour sold you plebs out for nignogs and pakis.
>>72073209
>go into primarily libertarian and right leaning board
>spew commie shit
>be suprised when you get told to fuck off
>>72065345
source?
>>72073309
/his/ has been getting invaded by /pol/ from the first day it was created. You cannot open a thread without some retard mumbling about niggers and Jews..
>>72073209
I'm ok with unions, I'm not ok with with the threat of destablizing an ecosystem that clearly works.
We are not all equals, We don't deserve equal pay, some of us know how to game the system. Eventually there will be a ruling class species and a worker class species. The best we can do is make it possible to move up and down based on merit
>>72072950
>all that can be valued and in demand is labour and other economic values.
Wew lad
>>72065009
>>72073265
I'm preferential to Bastiat myself, but no matter, all equally as good and all better than any authortian or left-winger
>>72073437
> You cannot open a thread without some retard mumbling about niggers and Jews..
WOOOW IT'S TOTALLY BEING RAIDED
>ignores the next 50 posts telling that retard to go back to /pol/
>>72073209
Class traitors like Lenin and Stalin?
Commies are tools by global capitalist kikes
>>72065909
>workers working for an employer will be paid a wage that allows the employer to profit from their labor.
sometimes. but because the majority of businesses fail it makes your claim retroactively false
and because the majority of businesses fail it would make sense for some people to take wage labor without fallout risk over group investment with total liability if there is failure
final question, does consent exist?
>>72073080
Thanks for the actually good questions, I truly do appreciate you being civil.
>How will this system be put into place?
Workers have to organize and connect a few worker's co-ops under a worker's federation. It could be as simple as getting 10 or so different existing co-ops to start paying dues towards the federation, then the federation can start supporting new worker owned industry.
> Will you prohibit businesses that aren't run democratically?
That sounds like a good policy to have, but if someone doesn't like it they could always try to make their own worker's federation.
>How do you imagine moving away from fiat money?
This will happen only after worker owned industry is more common that capitalist controlled industry. What will happen is that the value of fiat capital will devalue gradually and people that are hoarding capital will not be able to accumulate anymore due to the decreasing value, and while this is happening a system of trading resources in bulk among communities will be adopted.
>In all honesty, how efficient do you believe this system is going to be?
Much more efficient that a profit-driven economy because it's about demand being met. Where something is needed a supplier will be created. Compared to this system where only profitable demands are met.
>how will it be lead
The goal is no leadership, but I see some people desiring management and that might be allowed to a degree if people want it, but anti-corruption is a huge goal so there probably won't be much of that.
>>72073296
>"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" -Marx
You get the equivalent of what you put in.
This makes no sense. If you put in more or less than you need, you don't get what you put in back, according to Marx.
Who decides what my abilities and needs are anyways?
>>72073362
I'm not a member of Labour but Corbyn seems like a cool guy.
>>72073382
>muh safe space
Not to mention this board is ruthlessly authoritarian and not libertarian in the slightest.
KEK they act like this is some grand October revolution type shit, why do people take the internet this seriously?
>>72066813
I see your ideas fall apart in discussion and thay makes you sad so you need a safe space. Eat literally millions of dicks and choke on them.
>>72065345
How are they antiauthoritarian when all they want is a bigger government with more regulations and control
I.e. socislism, communism, stalinism
Capitalism is a Jewish pyramid scheme, and you "lefty pol" will eventually be lined up on the wall and shot like the useful idiots you are.
There will ever only be one type of communism and that's based fucking communism, that existed in the Soviet Union. Fuck cultural Marxism and other western idea, influenced by Jews. You are being led by the tune of the seductive Jew.
Time for a new tune nigger, the sound of Stalins organ.
>>72066617
>38 posts by this id
this is exactly why we needed ids
>>72073613
I said it was being invaded, not that it was being invaded successfully.
Don't you fags realize the final goal is:
>shitty communism for the "useless eaters"
>luxuriant capitalism for the elite
?
>>72067600
Shoo shoo commie jew
>>72066572
O Monolith, it was the jews wasn't it?
>>72073209
>politically INCORRECT board
>comes with politically CORRECT opinions
Fuck you.
>>72067447
hitler was syncretic
nice try using a source you don't even agree with though, just to shoehorn a malformed concern troll attempt
>>72073776
>Tankies
Truly the retarded step-child of communists.
>>72073776
>Capitalism is a Jewish pyramid scheme
And state run welfare isn't? Fucking kek
>praising the Soviet Union.
Retard. Luckily we have a very diverse community on /pol/, and I'm sure at least one anon who live through the USSR or has very close relatives and friends who did is reading this and will hopefully set you straight.
>>72073776
>starving under stalin
>actually starving
>having so little food you die of starving
lol
>>72073909
if it's so politically correct why does it trigger the fuck out of most people? Whereas nationalism is acepted by 95% of the world. The politically correct ones are you.
>>72067916
I am excited to see the answers.
>>72073909
>Communism
>Politically correct.
Right, which is why any communist country ever to exist gets absolutely shit on in schools and in the media.
There's a good reason everyone on /pol/ has such an ass backwards idea of what communism is and it's because that's what they're taught by the bourgeoisie.
>>72073632
It sounds to me like you want to implement this system on a voluntary basis and without authoritarian mechanisms enforcing it. But then why should people follow the system anyways? It seems to me like the capitalist order forms more naturally and would probably more efficient since democratic decisions are always slower and less consistent. If both systems were to coexist, I believe anarcho-syndicalism would soon be forgotten.
>>72073632
Why are you still shilling this rhetoric?
Most of what you are saying has been 'disproven' already in this thread.
But rather than open you mind to new ideas, you double down on that which has already been shown to be false.
Is that what it means to be /leftypol/?
Socialism>Communism>Capitalism
>>72074274
Socialism is the road to communism.
