>do research
>see exactly what I need
>research dosage amounts, length of treatment, expected side effects
>go find someone selling the drug I need
>buy it
>get better
Literally what is wrong with this?
Why do I have to pay out the ass for insurance, wait fucking months to see a shitty ass doctor, and beg him for the drug I need?
Why do we have to put up with these greedy ass jew doctors?
>>71971288
How do you know what drug you need if you are not qualified to diagnose yourself?
>>71971288
Take it at your own risk, man. I used to abuse pills and then meth. I used to think like you. Not saying everyone is a retard like me.
If anything, from what I saw happen to some other people, the doctors don't know what the hell they're doing either. Most of the medicine that doesn't have abuse potential is actually really dangerous. I am talking about antidepressants in particular. They are bad shit.
>>71971288
>what is the placebo effect
>>71971288
Because doctors know more than you, they know that certain drugs conflict with others and can kill you.
>>71971288
So you plan to diagnose yourself using Google? Every headache is going to end up with a cancer diagnosis and your dumbass would probably give yourself chemo.
If you really believe what you are saying, and believe its applicable to the real world, then you are either stupid, a child or both
Because there are too many idiots who would get themselves killed in such a system and then people would blame the system instead of blaming the idiots for being idiots.
Until personal responsibility becomes a widely accepted, dominant cultural value, we will never be able to have nice things.
How can I buy Ativan online? What's a good reliable site?
>>71971288
Many conditions cannot be properly identified without modern medical equipment. You might take medicine thinking you have a stomach ulcer and then die of a heart attack.
No one who has a psychiatric condition is in any position to objectively decide what medication they need.
Also it would lead to antibiotic overuse, which would lead to the growth of antibiotic resistant bacteria.
>>71971449
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to lookup side effects and see what has worked for others.
>>71971550
I'll take the risk. Just give me a piece of paper saying "If I die I've voluntarily taken the retard tax." Deal?
>do misguided research
>see exactly what i think i need
>google dosage and side effects and read up on bluelight
>??????
>??????
>hope for the best
fixed that for you OP
>>71971288
>He thinks a google search will provide him with the same knowledge that people spend literally a decade accumulating
ameridiots, everyone
>>71971288
I have researched this thread and my prescription for OP is an exit bag.
>>71971288
Self sufficiency is crime in 2016
Really OP you should just kill yourself after receiving such a booty blasting
>>71972199
>He thinks Doctors don't forget half the shit they've learned in college and specialize in one field and literally look shit up they've forgotten.
I can learn things too. My brain's genetic structure is not that different from a doctor's.
>>71972449
That's why we have Pharmacists, anon.
>>71972501
Pharmacists are just pill dispensers.
>>71972008
>No one who has a psychiatric condition is in any position to objectively decide what medication they need.
As someone who works as a nurse in a psychiatric facility, this is legally untrue if they are deemed competent to consent or not consent to treatment. Sure they can't say "I know i need X" but they are legally able to make informed decisions, and to generalize that having a psychiatric illness nullifies that is not correct. I can only speak for my state specifically(Florida) but I doubt it's different elsewhere, you are deemed to be legally competent or incompetent to make your own medical decisions, and if you are deemed incompetent then a guardian advocate/healthcare proxy is needed to do so for you.
>antibiotic abuse
Agreed, my understanding is that this shit is an issue in countries like mexico where there are less stringent controls over what you can purchase OTC.
>>71972449
>REEEEEE I CAN DO WHAT DOCTORS DO
Im hoping you have found yourself some psychotropic medicine
>>71972449
lol kill yourself you total retard. Doctors might forget details but they undergo years of training in basics like chemistry and biology that isn't forgotten. You're a literal retard if you think ~30 minutes of googling provides you with the same knowledge that 8 years of schooling does
>>71972569
Who are also the ones making sure you don't die when you take two functionally unrelated pills.
Army Medic here.
Providers literally have a program that takes symptoms as input, and gives back suggestions of what it could be and how to confirm.
Retards and drug addicts are the only reason, OP. 80%+ of shit people go to the doctor for could be treated at home with google.
Don't listen to these retards.
>>71971288
I agree in some cases. Anything super clear cut. Doctors rarely do anything other than follow the set guide for 99% of cases. Only addicting medications/meds that get you high should be prescription only.
For example I got a UTI recently. I fit every symptom, but had to go to the doctor. The doctor said: You probably have a UTI. He prescribed me some medication and it cleared it right up. Did I need to pay a doctor to tell me what I already know? no.
>>71972449
>specialize in one field
If they specialize in that one field, and that is the field that you are to be going to them for treatment, then they know their shit that much better.
>I can learn things too
have you spent most of your life learning about the specific kind of things that you currently need treatment on, or are you googling and reading layman's definitions and explanations? Because there is a huge difference there.
>>71972569
>Pharmacists are just pill dispensers
Pharmacists forget more about medications in a week than you will probably ever know. Pharmacists are smart as fuck.
>>71972826
You can google how to build your own home too, and forgo any experts in that field as well. But you will have worse outcomes because you will know less about what to do when something goes wrong, or won't even have the diagnostic tools at your disposal to ensure anything is going wrong in the first place.
>>71972826
>Providers literally have a program that takes symptoms as input, and gives back suggestions of what it could be and how to confirm.
so just like googling your symptoms and going through everything 1 by 1? damn, you thought you made a really smart comment but you are in fact not an intelligent person
>>71971288
Nothing if doctors won't give you benzos but prescribe a dealer benzos. System is broken so who cares.
i just want to say this.
pol consists primarily of complete fucking retards. like, really, really stupid.
i'll let you figure out who i'm talking about. ps it's not OP.
>>get a cough sick
>>determine through research of symptoms and the onset nature that it's almost certainly a lung infection, not viral
>>take some amoxicillin that i had from some time or another that a doctor would have said to throw away
>>get better in 24 hours and hack up a gallon of green phlegm from all the dying bacteria
>>but i wasn't qualified!
>>71971288
Honestly I cant really come up with an argument. What you do with your body doesn't have anything to do with me and I do not care.
>>71973423
>self medicating yourself
Enjoy being a drug addicted or a dead person you fuckin g retard
>>71972750
>Doctors might forget details but they undergo years of training in basics like chemistry and biology that isn't forgotten. You're a literal retard if you think ~30 minutes of googling provides you with the same knowledge that 8 years of schooling does
You don't seem to have any knowledge of the medicine world. Very few doctors are competent in pharmacology. This is the reason pharmacologists exist. Further specialization means many doctors don't even deal with medicines, but rather know pretty much everything about operating on the brain and not much else.
"Basics" in chemistry and biology will not help you very much in pharmacology, which is already a vague science where the interactions of two drugs are hard to track and if you're on any more than that it's complete guesswork.
A huge part of medicine use goes like this:
The doctor prescribing your drug has been courted by certain pharma companies that paid for fancy dinners and gave a lecture on why Brand Drug is the best choice for your issue. Doctor wasn't listening through most of it, but he likes the freebies so he always goes for Brand Drug. It seems to work. In fact it seems to work most of the time, so the Doctor doesn't investigate differential diagnoses or possible interactions very much, because medicine is an assembly line job 90% of the time and he's bored and wants to go home.
You can see the larger effects on this in situations like the ADHD "epidemic" which was founded on pharma companies selling the diagnosis and cure for a series of very common problems in youths. It wasn't worth investigating in much depth, just prescribe kids ritalin. Ritalin being an amphetamine derivative has an effect on ADHD kids and normal kids, so everyone involved "felt a change", which they reasoned meant that the diagnosis was correct and was making a difference.
You should be able to figure out why this is bullshit.
>>71973423
>get a cough
>take an antibiotic without knowing if it's the kind that your cough's bacteria is resistant to or not
>cough doesn't get better after your random shot in the dark with the only antibiotic you had on hand(without even knowing if it was bacterial or not)
>in fact, it's just harder to treat now because it's more resistant to the class of antibacterial that amoxicillin was
>now your cough is worse, the bacteria is stronger, and you are probably feeling effects elsewhere
>you may need to be treated with an earlier class of antibacterials that have worse side effects just because it's not something that the bacteria is used to seeing
>good thing you didn't go in and get a c/s to determine the proper regimen though, fuck them doctors
you weren't qualified
Want to get a prescription for modafanil to help with school n life. Have to lie to a doctor to get it.
There's no side effects!
>>71973636
enjoy being a weak, non-human little coward who can't think, or act for himself. enjoy being a total cypher that neither i, nor any other man, would notice on the bottom of my shoe. you're the kind that people accidentally kill and don't even feel bad about.
>>71973423
>he thinks the green phlegm is a result of dead bacteria
lmao
>>71973423
> one day of antibiotics cures a lung infection
.t retard
>>71973760
>>take an antibiotic without knowing if it's the kind that your cough's bacteria is resistant to or not
>>cough doesn't get better after your random shot in the dark with the only antibiotic you had on hand(without even knowing if it was bacterial or not)
Are you suggesting patients commonly get culture samples taken before getting sent home with antibiotics if they go to the doc's?
Top. Kek.
>>71971288
do you replace the batteries in your remote or mouse/keyboard?
there's electricity in those
you can kill yourself
that's why you hire an electrician to replace batteries you dumbass
what if you choke on them lol
>>71973760
literal fucking bullshit from someone who thinks doctors and disease are magic.
i'm going to enjoy watching you cucks suffer with a confused expression on your face, "but who will tell us what to do??!?!?!!"
>>71973815
www.modacat.com.
cheap and easy. i use it.
>>71973939
canadian education, everyone.
>>71973946
except it can and does. it wasn't a horrible illness. but i coughed myself until my voice changed probably for good.
>>71974002
What if you put AAA in a AA slot and it doesn't work, or even worse you mixed brands of batteries and it explodes!
>>71973841
>non-human little coward who can't think, or act for himself.
My grandfather wanted nothing to do with doctors. Almost killed himself.
>you're the kind that people accidentally kill and don't even feel bad about.
Lol wut? Are you a edgy kid or is it too many anime? Keks were had with your post
>>71974126
at least pretend to know how your immune system works
>>71973995
Are you suggesting that you can reliably cure a lung infection with one day's dose of antibiotics? Or are you going to down the entire dose and suffer from renal/hepatic failure or go fucking deaf?
>>71974032
>i'm going to enjoy watching you cucks suffer with a confused expression on your face, "but who will tell us what to do??!?!?!!"
what did he mean by this?
But retards who try to self-med with antibiotics contribute to why MDROs are a growing problem. You are literally training superbugs inside your worthless carcass and then going out to spread them to the world the second you're asymptomatic.
It's a system run by jews, there is literally no reason you shouldn't be able to purchase any medicine that isnt a controlled substance / narcotic
>>71974351
This, self medicating retards are a huge public health menace. Some of you are authentic cultures for super resistant bacteria.
This idea that you, guys that barely finished high school, can give yourself good diagnosis is laughable
>>71974321
at least fucking look at wikipedia or something before pretending to know something
>>71974351
all use of antibiotics contributes to the weakening of antibiotic effects. my use was far more judicious and far more responsible than at least half of american doctors and 95% of the global use. i didn't use it until i was over the halfway mark, so to speak, and i felt that the enemy inside me had been weakened to the point that i could kill them off with one fell blow.
by all indications, my computer is worth more than your life.
>>71974284
your grandfather is ashamed of you and thinks you're a fucking pussy.
>>71974351
>Are you suggesting that you can reliably cure a lung infection with one day's dose of antibiotics?
No.
In fact there's a myriad of ways to kill yourself on things you can buy over the counter. And yet we let people have that responsibility.
I think it's amazing that an american is arguing for a nanny state and making an appeal to authority for one of the most broken piece of shit systems we have - the medical profession.
Personal responsibility should be at the center for this. The sad truth is that an automated system could screen out maybe as much as half the patients who come to the doctor's office. You could replace an increasingly bloated and expensive system with a goddamned computer terminal self-diagnoser and pill dispenser and have improved results.
I don't think the people in this thread arguing that medicine is great have any insight into how it works.
>>71974412
there's no reason any substance should be controlled. the sole exception is actually antibiotics, because using them actually and literally affects other people. heroin and cocaine used to be sold over the counter and there was no fucking problem. and even if there was a problem, that doesn't give anyone the right to tell someone else not to sell some cocaine at their drugstore or take cocaine.
>>71974634
Do you honestly think that the average person is more judicious and reasonable than doctors? Remember, making it legal for YOU also means making it legal for idiots - and most people are, in fact, idiots.
>>71974634
>my use was far more judicious!
>because I only used a little bit!
want to know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about?
>>71974723
where is the personal responsibility when someone self-meds with antibiotics to the point of producing another MDRO and spreading it to the community at large? When it comes to infectious disease, "personal responsibility" is not the only concern.
>>71972826
I swear I want to punch some of these retards in real life.
>B-BUT YOU NOT QUAAALIFIEEED, Y-YOU MIGHT OVERDOSE ON Y-YOUR D-DOXYCYCLINE
I don't know how to cure cancer, but that doesn't mean I'm a mouth drooling retard. And if I am so what? It's not your fucking problem. One less retard in the gene pool. Wasn't that pol's mantra? Now they're all suddenly moralfags.
>>71974634
>i didn't use it until i was over the halfway mark, so to speak, and i felt that the enemy inside me had been weakened to the point that i could kill them off with one fell blow.
You are an idiot by the way and the antibiotic treatment didn't have time to do jack shit.
I hope you at least completed a full cure of it and didn't stop taking it when the symptoms got better.
>>71974788
The entire antibiotic crash is due to livestock over usage, human consumption of antibiotics is a drop in the water compared to what they pump into all these fucking animals
I really am losing faith in /pol/ after seeing these shills nowadays. I never had a problem looking up and understanding symptoms and learning about them through a Google search. I mean, I'm more likely to have a better chance of success if I have a reliable resource (not Google itself, but see: a resource found through Google) right in front of me rather than relying on something like *a* Doctor's MEMORY (which tbqh, memory is unreliable generally). I'm not justifying that just because you have a resource, that it makes you a know-better on a topic - which is why, personally, I always ask the doc if I don't understand something....or if I need them to formally diagnose.
Some of these people are brainwashed or they're literally shills. If there is a way to attain or utilize knowledge that can help you, then why not??? People should be independent thinkers.
>>71974904
>where is the personal responsibility when someone self-meds with antibiotics to the point of producing another MDRO and spreading it to the community at large?
You mean.. what's already happening?
The medical profession is churning out drug resistant strains not just due to overprescribing drugs, but also and in a large part due to the cleaning routines (or lack thereof) in hospitals.
It should be an eye opening experience when Doctors Without Borders manage to have a better wound recovery rate on dirt floors than we have in modern hospitals.
But it's not.
>>71974723
>>I don't think the people in this thread arguing that medicine is great have any insight into how it works.
any sufficiently advanced technology appears as magic to those who have not discovered it.
in terms of mental development, there's a startling amount of humans even in america who have not mentally understood what medicine is or what doctors do. it's 'magic' to them.
>>71974876
>>Do you honestly think that the average person is more judicious and reasonable than doctors?
no, i don't. i think they're about equal.
and i don't think it matters if people off themselves with pills. that's their fault. it's a good thing.
>>71974904
>>want to know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about?
want to know how i know that you think you have some idea that you know what you're talking about when you imply that i don't know what i'm talking about?
it has something to do with bullshit you've heard about antibiotics that is mostly spread by incompetent doctors who are barely qualified to dispense pills badly.
>>71974917
i hope you don't seriously think that you know anything about how anything works, let alone bacteria and your body. you don't have the presence of mind to observe the nature of a bicycle. YOU probably SHOULD let a doctor do whatever to you.
>>71975086
i feel ya.
>>71971288
do what op does
find vet grade version
buy online for my "horse" for 10% of human grade and its the same shit
>>71975086
Look up how many people waste money on herbs and sugar pills then tell me the average guy is capable of research
And let's not even bring up antibiotic resistance issues or drug interactions
>>71975207
>>oh no, an idiot killed himself
>>better neuter the entire species
killing themselves is what idiots do, and by preventing this, you are directly contributing to a worse world.
>>71971897
That shit is poison. Trust me
>>71975170
>in terms of mental development, there's a startling amount of humans even in america who have not mentally understood what medicine is or what doctors do. it's 'magic' to them
Clearly you're speaking from experience.
>>71975376
that's not as clever as you think it is.
>>71975089
I won't argue there, a lot of the shit in our medical system needs cleaning up(literally). It's an issue that should be addressed on all fronts.
>>71975170
You're just retarded m8. When you take incomplete antibiotic regimens and stop when you become asymptomatic, you open the door to the bacterial infection not being eradicated completely and repopulating with resistance to the ammo you were using on it. If there were less people like you I'd be more okay with people self-medding.
>>71975036
Could you cite some sources on how much eating antibiotic-infused beef has contributed to MDROs as compared to self-medication? This is something I'd genuinely curious about.
>>71975468
again, you don't know how antibiotics work. or bacteria. or the immune system.
>>71975207
people dont realize that everything good in fitness comes in a needle
and/or can kill you
all the good shit is illegal
>>71971288
because the Government knows whats good for you
>>71971288
Med student here, saw some burger do the exact same thing then collapse in my city's airport because the blood pressure meds he bought himself from Mexico gave him a potassium of 2.0.
>>71975296
When an idiot nearly kills himself and gets rushed to the ER for ODing on a med with a low therapeutic range, then our socialized healthcare system has to share a portion of that burden. If it is determined that it was due to self-medding and insurance doesn't pay for the costs as it already does in some cases(my father had an insurance issue when a miscalculation on his insulin injection was filed as a drug abuse overdose) then I would be more fine with that.
>>71975596
If everyone who is disagreeing with you is so uninformed despite all the facts we gave you, then tell me how they work, oh he of the 5-minute-google-search. Tell me why it was smart to take a single dose of an antibiotic and stop when you were asymptomatic. See if you can google up something that supports that anywhere on WebMD or drugs.com.
>>71975296
An what happens when idiots start to medicate their children?
>>71975997
they die.
>>sheds tear
psyk not at all
>>71975862
>>show me on the internet why people like doctors but you aren't doctor but you say should be smart but do stuff doctor smart doctor do
lol
also
>>i like paying for what idiots do to themselves
then stop. douchebag.
>>71976282
Edgy kid
Self-dosing antibiotics is tricky. If you use improper dose and some bacteria survives, they built up an immunity.
>>71976411
>>shitposter uses meme
...
>>IT'S HIGHLY EFFECTIVE
psyk not at all
>>71976282
>stop paying taxes
I don't like jail, but that's besides the point. Please tell me your reasoning on why taking a single antibiotic dose and stopping when you're asymptomatic was a good idea. Can you do better than "lol" or "you just think it's magic" or "you don't know the immune system do you?" At this point you're just pretending to be retarded but I'm biting anyway.
>>71975758
Too much furosemide, or some other loop diuretic?
>>71971288
the Jews want their cut anon...
>>71975758
Oh yeah
t. pharm student
>>71976434
even if you dose it correctly chances are good you won't know what strain of bacteria it is and you may pick an antibiotic that the bacteria are not susceptible to
>>71976505
A. i would have taken more if it hadn't been completely effective
B. i had it on the run already. it killed it.
C. your idea of how antibiotics is a lowest common denominator method designed for doctors who don't want to think or risk lawsuits to go through with
D. i know what i'm fucking doing because i can use my mind and my senses to make decisions. that makes anything i do, while on a greasy branch with a chainsaw, far safer than anything you do in a tub full of marshmallows and bubble wrap.
e. you know your body fights, right?
>>71971288
There are drugs such as adderall or vyvanse that you literally have no reason NOT to take because they make you better at everything, perform better as an athlete, smarter, more charismatic, etc... Having drugs such as those readily available to the goyim will create an environment where you MUST take them to remain competitive.
>>71975758
>blood pressure meds
Was he a fat fuck?
>>71971288
>Literally what is wrong with this?
Nothing. You should be able to take any risks that you deem yourself fit to make. As long as you don't expect tax payer dollars to bail you out when you end up in the ER after a botched diagnosis, then it's fine in my book.
Doctors just want to keep their monopoly.
>>71976935
He could be black
>>71971538
>Most of the medicine that doesn't have abuse potential is actually really dangerous. I am talking about antidepressants in particular. They are bad shit.
They also save lives anon. They are not as bad as you think.
>>71973006
>But you will have worse outcomes
Top laf. Have you seen the quality of modern housing? It's pathetic. Odds are, if you're going through all the effort of building your own house, you will put in the research and care to make it as good, if not better. The only difference will be the time it takes.
>>71971288
Well, the good news is that people like you should sort themselves out in Darwinian fashion.
>>71977217
So why don't you let me pussy?
>>71977188
u srs m8, the average dumbfuck is going to put in proper water/sewer/electricity let alone properly insulate and drywall with zero experience
>>71977188
If that is true then that was a bad analogy because I am not well-versed on house-building or that industry. Even within that analogy I should have made a comparison between the complexity of fixing a minor fence issue and the complexity of having to perform something much more challenging, such as re-installing your plumbing system.
>>71976553
>>71976628
>>71976935
Yep, this guy heard Lasix was great for blood pressure and swollen ankles so picked up a ton of it from Mexico. They were my staff's case so I didn't see much aside from the emergency room notes.
They were fat but definitely not morbidly obese IIRC
Goes to show a little knowledge is the most dangerous kind
>>71971288
I could really use some Ambien. I have had serious sleep issues for as long as I can remember. I have taken Ambien before and it works like a dream (dreams are actually really awesome on it), but I'm afraid to ask a doctor because he's just going to assume I want to abuse it.
You do realize a shitty doctor will write scripts to everyone and one who cares about his patience will make sure you get a drug that won't harm you but also benefit you, right?
>>71972795
Most pills are okay to mix, anon. And 10 minutes of research online will fill in any blanks. It's not that hard.
>>71975170
>and i don't think it matters if people off themselves with pills. that's their fault. it's a good thing.
Antibiotic resistance means that they won't just be killing themselves. They'll be breeding diseases that can kill anyone.
>>71977577
Tell that to the old people who come to my store to pick up medications and can't figure out how to type in their PIN on the debit machine.
For every reasonably educated person, there are 10 stupid.
>>71973841
Absolutely wrecked.
You're mostly right, most of the time you can go without a doctor if you actually have a brain, have ready access to prescribed drugs (big if), and aren't a braindead pussy like >>71973636. However, that doesn't mean they can be completely replaced. If you're extremely ill, don't chance it. Regular check-ups and physicals are also smart.
>>71977577
You underestimate how stupid people can be unfortunately.
9/10 basic internet research for one time dosing is fine, but with chronic dosing and more complex drug mixtures (think the average 40+ American or Canadian) things get complicated fast.
>>71977527
Have you tried unisom? It's otc and knocks me the fuck out.
But don't feel bad before these doctor fucks and don't worry about them. There is no 'abuse.' There is just use and the side effects the chemicals have on you.
If you're having problems then you need to go get it fixed regardless of what these overpaid fucks think. Their job is to make sure you don't die, that's pretty much it.
>>71971288
Because the idiots need saving from themselves. It's why society is getting dumber. We fight against natural selection.
>>71977393
Average dumbfuck, no. That's why they don't, even though there are no regulations against it. But some people are up for it.
>>71977418
A good deal of medical problems are "minor fence issues". Nobody is saying doctors are worthless and shouldn't exist. Just that you don't absolutely need them for every little medical issue, provided you take it upon yourself to do the research and follow correct diagnostic procedures.
>>71978186
Comparing benadryl to ambien in terms of sleep-aid?
Seriously?
>>71978014
Judging by your example, looks like the doctors and pharmacists that prescribed them their many pills are almost as clueless as Joe Self-Medicate. Also, don't forget that old age itself is the cause of most of that molasses-like brain functioning.
>>71978044
one thing i will say is that the state of todays surgeons is in no way stagnated, the things that surgeons are capable of is astounding. there's never been a better time to get mangled.
if i developed truly weird symptoms, if i could tell that something beyond the scope of self diagnosis was developing in my body - yeah, i'd go to a doctor.
i also went for a phull physical before i self administered ibogaine, also a complete blood workup and EKG.
>>71973423
amoxicillin has poor penetration into the lung tissue
a better choice would have been a fluoroquinolone or a macrolide.. if it was truly a bacterial infection
>but it was probably just a viral URTI
>be me
>develop lower abdomen pain and frequent urination
>buy antibiotics online
>feel better within a day
>day 4
>wake up at 2am with ringing in my ears and feeling sicker than I ever have in my life
>dial 911 but don't hit send because I don't have insurance and don't want to pay 3,000 dollars
>pace back and forth from 2am-8am using all my mental energy to not give in and call ambulance
>get to medical clinic that opens at 9am
>oh anon, you had an allergic reaction to the antibiotics next time don't be a fucking retard
don't do it imo. If you're wrong about your diagnosis or have a bad reaction to the drugs you'll be 10x more miserable because you have to explain to the doctors that you took meds without a prescription. the nurse looked at me like I was a total retard and that memory still haunts me along with other embarrassing shit I've done in my life.
>>71978235
I don't disagree with that. A stupidly large amount of people use the ER as their primary care provider, and many others use their primary care provider as their cure-all to ridiculously small things.
>>71977566
Doctor stop getting paid when you get cured. That's why many specialists prescribe weak substances for months or years instead of giving you known cures. I've personally dealt with this.
>>71978140
>but with chronic dosing and more complex drug mixtures (think the average 40+ American or Canadian) things get complicated fast.
Agreed, a cold or flu is easy, a body failing left and right is a little tougher. Lucky for us, a visit to the doctor is already paid for by our enormous taxes.
>>71971288
Insurance is playing the lottery, betting against yourself. You're literally betting something in your life will be fucked up so badly that you end up with the insurance paying you more than you paid in. And if things are that badly fucked up it's not good to begin with.
If you're half-way intelligent you should never buy insurance. It's statistically a losing bet.
>>71971288
because the average person is borderline retarded and can't even take an otc medication correctly.
>>71978424
you would have had that allergic reaction even if you had a prescription from a doctor.
>>71978303
STFU quack. That's the best one can get without going through your wringing little jew hands.
>>71978382
you may be right. in fact, i suspect you are, because, amoxicillin is just what i happened to have.
would be nice if i had the option of looking up what the best AB's for a lung infection currently are, symptoms of various strains, and so forth, and then just go pick it up from a drugstore.
you know, drugstores don't need to sell to everyone? they can just refuse to part with the pills if they don't think it's a good idea.
>>71978424
symptoms like that had a very good chance of not beingg bacterial anyways. that could have been physiological disease or organ failure. i would have got professional advice for that. or at least looked up in journals.
>>71971538
I'm going into get my tooth taken out or get a root canal and I have massive pain from the broken tooth right now. The fucking doctor treated me like I was some kind of fucking drug addict he gives me 7 fucking pain pills 7 for fuck sake! I had to fucking wait more than 7 fucking days and he says to take one every 8 fucking hours yeah great 7 will sure as fuck last me a month before your stupid ass can see me.
>>71978303
200mg benedryl and two beers will KO you. at least it does me.
>>71971288
Because self-diagnosis is the most ass-retarded thing you can do; the human body is a lot more complex than "this worked for other people sort of like me, so it ought work for me"
>>71975468
With regards to antibiotics there are different causes for each specific drugs resistance. A lot of the older but formerly useful antibiotics got hit by livestock use.
For our harder hitting newer drugs they got hit mostly by rampant overuse in the third world. Imagine 1.2 billion uneducated people with the barest idea of how modern medicine works. Prajeet feels sick goes down to the 7/11-pharmacy hybrid corner store and decides to get what he is told is the strongest shit he can buy, because why fuck around with the weak stuff right?. There's a reason that the enzyme that breaks down our antibiotics is called New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase.
But, really shitty western practices also didn't help either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Delhi_metallo-beta-lactamase_1
>>71978509
>about to respond why that's retarded
>tripfag
ok kek
>>71978424
First of all, how would a doctor have known you would've been allergic to that particular med? He wouldn't have, and you would've been in the exact same situation. Doctors aren't wizards.
>you'll be 10x more miserable because you have to explain to the doctors that you took meds without a prescription. the nurse looked at me like I was a total retard and that memory still haunts me along with other embarrassing shit I've done in my life.
You just sound like a gigantic pussy, on top of being rather stupid (thinking doctors just know if you're allergic to something). People like you need their hand held.
This is retarded. I'm a microbiologist by trade and from my perspective, this would be a nightmare.
>people would take antibiotics needlessly
>people would take antibiotics when they have a viral infection
>people would take the wrong kind of antibiotic and die
>overuse of antibiotics would lead to antibiotic resistance
>antibiotic resistance would become everyone's problem
>people would overload their kidneys and die
>people would have all sorts of drug interactions and die
It just makes no sense to allow people to utilize chemical compounds they simply don't have the knowledge to understand. If you think you know what you need, go to a doctor, describe your illness, discuss a treatment regimen, and suggest what you think is best.
>>71978897
>First of all, how would a doctor have known you would've been allergic to that particular med?
I don't fucking know, perhaps some form of medical test, or looking over family medical history, to see if you would have likely had an averse reaction? Jesus Christ leafs are idiots.
>Doctors are Wizards
No, but they're certainly more likely to get something right than some pants-on-head plebe.
>>71978874
You're not capable since it's a brute fact that people pay in more money to insurance than insurance pays out, and will always be a brute fact, since insurance as an industry couldn't exist otherwise.
Pretend your retard-spendings are anything other than sheep-dumbshittery all you want, cocksucker.
>>71978897
There are certain medications and procedures that you won't want to take or have if you have allergies that are not intuitively related to the med or procedure specifically, like iodinated contrast medium and shellfish allergy. Still entirely possible that it was just an allergy to a med that there was no way of knowing beforehand, but the chances of catching it are certainly higher with a medical review before prescribing.
>>71979078
Exactly, and the cost of insurance is an acceptable cost to the citizenry as a whole, for the sake of mitigating disaster when it does happen. I know this is hard for an hyper-individualist libertarian animefag niggerfaggot to understand, but it is more beneficial overall for insurance to be required universally.
TL;DR: Kill yourself you god damn cuck.
>>71978973
People already abuse health services regularly - and most of them are on Medicaid. You should see the medical charts for both inpatient and outpatient for most hospitals - they would boggle your mind just how stupid and wasteful people are.
>>71979386
*Most people LOSE* the insurance bet. You are *MORE LIKELY* to pay in more money for insurance than you get back. Your money would be better served being *SAVED* in case of your own emergency. But you're *WAY* too fucking stupid to ever do that, so waste your money. Please waste your money - you don't deserve any less.
>>71978689
Since the heroin epidemic no doctor wants to give out opiads lest they get busted. I know this sounds like DUDE WEED but after I got hit by a car I found marijuana to be more effective pain relief than vicodone. I recommend it.
>>71979036
>says canadians are idiots
>thinks doctors administer a test before before prescribing a new drug
You have no idea how it works, and your embarrassing yourself tbqh. I'm cringing.
>some pants-on-head plebe.
Clearly you're just the type of pleb you're referring to. I know dumb people often consider everybody else as dumb as they are, as that's all they know, but trust me on this one, that's not the case.
Also, you care to address the shame and embarrassment you felt admitting to the doctor and nurse that you self medicated? You mention the memory of this still haunts you. How weak and beta are you?
>>71979669
Yeah but those fucking medicines exist for a fucking god damn reason. FOR PAIN EXACTLY WHAT I FUCKING NEEDED THEM FOR.
Weed isn't legal and I'd have to buy a vaporizer (whatever you call them) because I'm not smoking shit.
>>71979347
Agreed it's probably higher, but I had to correct that other fool's thinking that the doctor would catch everything, which isn't the case
>>71978874
It's true. Insurance is basically a bet
>>71979078
Board favorite retard is here. How many times have you nutted looking at anime little girls today?
>>71979386
> but it is more beneficial overall for insurance to be required universally.
Or maybe, universal healthcare? If you are required, then at least pay to a sytem that doesn't have to carry so much overhead costs (marketing, staff, profits...)
>>71979891
How's your abject poverty and incapability to make coherent arguments treating you? Or your terrible genes that preclude you from ever having a single novel thought about anything at all and that render you physically weak and incapable of excelling at a single thing you have ever done or will ever do?
>>71980057
>>71979891
>universal healthcare
>pay a tax to fund a government insurance program.
I'd rather rely on competitive doctors that are on the cutting edge because of capitol incentives.
>>71980065
>How's your abject poverty
Being poor makes me happy, because i know i am happier then the rich, just like in that movie and in soap operas.
>incapability to make coherent arguments
That is for rich folks, not me. A guy born out of poor parents should aspire to till the fields, nothing more.
>Or your terrible genes
Could be worse
> preclude you from ever having a single novel thought about anything at all
ALL DEM FANCY WORRS ARE MAKING MY TINKY HURDS!!! SPEAK ENGLISH PLS ;)
>excelling at a single thing you have ever done or will ever do?
I can throw beer cans farther then my friends
>>71979573
Again, this is about the collective citizenry as a whole, not the individual. You also conveniently forget the positive benefit forced insurance has on the economy as a whole; while self-interested individuals would not necessarily insure themselves, being forced to do so allows them to assume more risk, where as without this only larger firms would be able to both absorb cost from risk, as well as ensure themselves. Insurance promotes risk amongst individuals and so forth.
>>71979750
Not the same anon that originally posted (check the ID's you dumb fucking leaf), but neither you nor I are actually doctors. Don't speak out of your experience.
>>71979891
It's a bet, but it's a bet that's good overall. People are more likely to assume risk if they know that they can survive the cost of failure (which insurance provides), even if they are statistically unlikely to fail in the first place. Humans are not perfectly rational.
>>71980057
While it's not perfect, I agree, there's still plenty of competition within insurance. Saying "you need to be insured" is a lot different than saying "you need to be insured by the government".
>>71980285
>competitive doctors
Doctors don't compeat. Insurance compete on getting as much money from you as possibly and giving you as little less as possible when necessity arises.
> on the cutting edge
For the rich, yes
>>71974628
>holds contempt for the masses
>maintains capitalist doctor/patient relationships
Fuck off, you're not a leftist.
>>71980441
I'll let you speak for yourself. It's way more plain for every other soul just how intellectually bereft you are any time you ever say anything at all than it is for anyone else to describe you.
>>71980537
>It's a bet, but it's a bet that's good overall.
>A bet that you will surely loose, is a good bet
I have to aggre with weeabo retard on this one
>there's still plenty of competition within insurance.
Why is insurance competition beneficial?
>>71980687
>tripfag animeposter
>insulting anyone else
>>71971288
>he thinks pills can cure his autism
>>71980537
ALL PEOPLE ARE INDIVIDUALS SHIT HEAD. LAMO!
Tell me - at what number of people does insurance *EVER* become a worthy buy for *ANYONE* as opposed to not? HOW BIG A CITIZENRY? 2? 9? 200? 4k? LAMO!
>>71980825
>>71971538
yeah i have massive holes in my memory from my anti-depressant taking days, whole months gone
>>71980639
Masses are stupid.
And no i'm not a leftist by /pol/ standards. I am by my own.
>>71980687
NOT AGAIN MASSA!! DEM FANCY WORDS NO!!!!
You must be one insuferable cunt irl. Or you are just a insuferable cunt Online
>>71980775
>>It's a bet, but it's a bet that's good overall.
>>A bet that you will surely loose, is a good bet
>I have to aggre with weeabo retard on this one
It's a bet that's good overall for everyone and the economy in the long run*
While it is true that most individuals do not benefit from insurance (beyond having the peace of mind to assume risk), the cost of insurance is rather marginal for anyone who isn't a piss-poor plebe.
>Why is insurance competition beneficial?
The same why competition in general is good, it lowers costs for the individual consumer and constantly drives firms to improve.
>>71980967
man you sure got us, how do you do it senpai?
>>71981065
>unironically being a poortuguese orangepicker
>>71981198
Years of practice and good taste in cute anime girls. Your burn was so much sicker though.
Is there any real reason a highly advanced AI couldn't match the average doctor in successful diagnoses and treatments?
It could be the avenue for terrible imposition as a result of who owns and operates them but it could also make healthcare exceptionally more efficient and potentially more effective
>>71980985
Lucky you, I don't remember the last 10 years.
>>71980937
Praceteom, I have to ask, what happened to you? A few months ago you used to actually bother formulating arguments (alongside anime shitposting), but now you're a perfect strawman of lolbertarianism.
>How big is a citizenry
Everyone the state has jurisdiction over; that is, the entire nation.
>>71981150
>The same why competition in general is good, it lowers costs for the individual consumer and constantly drives firms to improve.
The why is USA healthcare expense wildly superior per capita then the rest of the world, for only marginal superiority, when there is any?
>and the economy in the long run
The insurance pockets, you mean?
>beyond having the peace of mind to assume risk
We have that in Europe. It's called socialized medicine.
>for anyone who isn't a piss-poor plebe.
And those who are?
>>71981363
I argue when someone's actual arguing. Find me an argument addressed to me in this or any thread I'm posting in. Or if you have something to say you can go ahead and say it. Otherwise I'm being vitriolic, which I also enjoy.
>>71981363
So when do you have a nation as opposed to a not-nation?
>>71981352
>Is there any real reason a highly advanced AI couldn't match the average doctor in successful diagnoses and treatments?
We don't have the AI yet. It's the only reason
>>71981397
>The why is USA healthcare expense wildly superior per capita then the rest of the world, for only marginal superiority, when there is any?
I'm going to be honest, I honestly don't know. We have some of the best medical service, but lots of shady shit goes on.
>The insurance pockets, you mean?
Yes, and everyone else since they're more wont to engage in business, by homes, and so on and so forth.
>We have that in Europe. It's called socialized medicine.
And it's shit.
>And those who are?
Piss-poor plebes, I.E., the people who are never going to amount to anything nor contribute in any meaningful manner.
>>71979573
Do you actually know how much money an emergency room visit costs? Not to mention further treatment as an outpatient?
It's literally out of the reach of most Americans except for the richest.
>>71981524
ebin.
>>71981547
What do you mean by a "not-nation"? A group of people not ruled by any governing body? They aren't citizens in the first place, so they can't be considered part of any citizenry.
>>71979573
Also, if you think that you shouldn't get insurance, then you shouldn't expect to buy it when something bad happens.
In fact, we should repeal The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act so hospitals can leave you out in the street for being a stupid faggot that can't pay.
>>71971288
Con FUCKING grats on being the 5% of the population able to make opinions on their own, do research and have a logical thinking.
The other 95% will just pump antibiotics to treat flu.
The masses are stupid and doctors keep them from making super-bacterias that dont give a single fuck about antibiotics amongst other risks.
>>71971750
>Until personal responsibility becomes a widely accepted, dominant cultural value, we will never be able to have nice things.
we passed that age a half century ago, we're the ones who get to restart it though.
>>71981640
The most common visitors to the emergency room are people on medicaid. They constantly go to the emergency room since they don't have to pay for it, and they do so for really minor things.
>>71981571
>I'm going to be honest, I honestly don't know. We have some of the best medical service, but lots of shady shit goes on.
Because much is spent on overhead (i.e. insurance)
They literally offer no service for healthcare other the choosing who lives and who dies
>And it's shit.
It's not. Some of our socialized systems have better indicators then USA. All you guys have is "Cancer survival rates" wich are based on a study conducted in 95-2000. The rest USA are pretty above average
>Piss-poor plebes, I.E., the people who are never going to amount to anything nor contribute in any meaningful manner.
And their kids?
>>71981667
There's either a nation or there isn't. A state of affairs in which there's not a nation is a state of there being not-nation as opposed to there being a nation.
So I'm asking when some group of people in some arbitrary geographical area are considered as being a nation and when they are considered as not being a nation.
>>71981831
I agree completely.
>>71973815
shits amazing, I don't know why this shit wasn't handed out like candy.
the focus of adderall with a clear mind and no tweak, and not much of a come down?
sign me the fuck up
>>71981908
>Because much is spent on overhead (i.e. insurance)
Insurance is necessary as of now because of how expensive the rest of medical care is; if healthcare manages to get fixed somehow, then insurance will as well shrink (in healthcare, at least) to where they provide insurance to the people who can't pay into healthcare directly.
>It's not. Some of our socialized systems have better indicators then USA. All you guys have is "Cancer survival rates" wich are based on a study conducted in 95-2000. The rest USA are pretty above average
And we're faster pretty much across the board.
>And their kids
The poor shouldn't be breeding in the first place.
>>71981339
>>71982002
>So I'm asking when some group of people in some arbitrary geographical area are considered as being a nation and when they are considered as not being a nation.
They are considered a nation-state when there is some governing authority that is considered legitimate by both the people within its jurisdiction (its citizenry), as well as other sovereign nation-states.
>>71971449
For most common conditions some research and an IQ over 120 is sufficient.
But then that answers OP's question: IQ in America is dropping below 100 (thanks immigration!). Most of those people would misdiagnose, abuse the drugs, harm themselves, and/or end up dying.
>tfw some freedoms should be based on IQ testing
>>71982039
you do build a tolerance. i use it 2-3 times a week at most or it stops being effective. but it is in fact highly fucking effective. and i keep trying to figure out if it's fucking me somehow but i can't find any downsides.
modacat.com
>>71982190
We had to ban antibiotics because of this.
Bunch of fucking retards fortyfing Bacterias with their shitty diagnosis.
Trying to cure viral diseases with antibiotics too
>>71982138
When is some authority considered legitimate? Obviously it's not by unanimous consensus, since there are people who don't hold such "authorities" as being legitimate in virtually every place I'd suspect you would say a nation exists.
>>71982065
>how expensive the rest of medical care is
Why do poorer countries can do it, and america, one of the highest per capita countries can't?
>The poor shouldn't be breeding in the first place.
Ah, forget it
>>71981549
we don't need ai. a java app running on a smart phone could do it.
fuck, a program on a ti-83 calculator could do it.>>71981549
>>71982343
>When is some authority considered legitimate?
When a group of people (any sized group of people) consider it so, and the authority is capable of exerting enough (legitimate) coercive force from this group of subordinates to ensure its authority of those that can be reasonably adopted into its jurisdiction.
TL;DR: Might makes right, or rather, might makes legitimate authority if the plebes don't care enough to disagree.
>>71982190
>Most of those people would misdiagnose, abuse the drugs, harm themselves, and/or end up dying.
sounds like natural selection to me
![guns-health-care-82880109353[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NOwNFs7.jpg "guns-health-care-82880109353[1].jpg")
>>71971288
>"you have a right to buy any gun you want! No gun regulations, get the government's hands off my guns!"
>"Medicine? Ban it! Its dangerous! It will kill people! We need the government to ban medicine!"
>America
I do think more medicines can come off the prescription drug list in America. While guns may be easy to get in America, medical drugs can be very difficult to get. A Mexican in Mexico has more rights to access medicine than an American does because they have access to more medications in their pharmacy than Americans do.
I have Medi-cal, and its a complete nightmare trying to get an antidepressant medication. For a city of over 360,000 people, there is only one psychiatrist that accepts Medi-cal.
>>71982400
there's a reason why we're rich.
it's because we don't act like the poor actually deserve anything. they don't.
wealth is the solution to poverty. surprise, we valued wealth, and so we're wealthy, while other nations can't afford toilet paper and live in tin shacks.
>>71982400
>Why do poorer countries can do it, and america, one of the highest per capita countries can't?
They can't with any reasonable speed, efficiency, or good service.
America trades off expense in favor of speed and quality, albeit the expense is a bit too high.
>Ah, forget it
What? They really shouldn't.
>>71981352
we'd be too afraid of people abusing the system without the human oversight, as if they don't already.
>>71971288
>knowing what you need
How will you know? It take's a doctor and all his resources to determine the right treatment.
>lol i already know what i need
Chemists are qualified and have a legal obligation to dispense controlled drugs to people with prescriptions.
>greedy ass jew doctors
Again, this guy is going to tell you what you need, all he can do is write you a script for it.
And all the chemist can do, is prescribe it to you.
You sound like a typical crybaby drug user OP. From antibiotics to morphine.
BTW It's not in the doctors best interest for his patients to die.
>>71981849
>i watched a youtube video about super bugs, doctors don't know what they're doing....hurr
>>71971288
This thread triggered me.
Lets see:
Not every drug is OTC. Most you need a prescription for. You cannot obtain a prescription without seeing a doctor or going to a clinic. Most establishments will not take patients unless you have insurance. It's not that they hate you, they don't trust you lolbertarian faggots because you're not trustworthy to make payments.
Insurance companies are.
So not only do you not get to see a doctor because no insurance, you get no prescription, which means you get no drugs.
The real good shit is high-tier scheduled drugs which you can only obtain legally through a prescription, which we've already covered.
Not every single medical ailment is as simple as taking OTC. There's a million other ways to fuck your body over.
sage
reported for underage b&
>>71982562
Implying medicine is not a band-aid solution. Many people don't need medication but good therapy, therapy is very expensive due to government regulations only allowing people with 12 years of school to sell their services.
>>71982512
Anyone has might - a single person is entirely physically capable of annihilating the entire rest of humanity. So I suppose that means if anyone thinks anyone else is an authority to you, then they are one. It has nothing to do with legitimacy - there's no justification sceme in a "might makes right" moral framework in the first place. Whatever happens is simply what happens. So if your whole family is murdered before your eyes, you actually lack a framework for making a moral objection to that happening.
Look at what unregulated antibiotics are doing for India and resistant strains of everything.
>>71980537
I realize I'm not a doctor you fucking idiot, I'm just saying there are certain things that they do that can be replicated by some research and resourcefulness, coupled with not being a total retard, which clearly disqualifies you.
***different ID due to posting from different device***
>>71982866
Yes, but another man is just as equally capable of stopping that one man from killing everyone else (as is everyone else, for that matter).
>Whatever happens is simply what happens
Exactly; if the reigning authority doesn't act in a way that its jurisdiction likes, its support base will eventually shrink, until it is overthrown by the masses. This is, of course, assuming that no other sovereign nations step in, or that all men are equally mighty and capable.
>So if your whole family is murdered before your eyes, you actually lack a framework for making a moral objection to that happening.
Sure I do; I like my family and they have most likely done nothing so reasonably objectionable to the murderer as to warrant them being killed.
TL;DR:
>Whatever happens is simply what happens.
Congratulations, you figured out the natural basis of history and human society; people act according to personal virtues, wants, desires, and opinion; trying to force a universal, inflexible 'moral' system onto them will only lead to disaster.
>>71983111
>I'm just saying there are certain things that they do that can be replicated by some research and resourcefulness,
Except that nobody is in any position to claim that besides an actual doctor, least of all a self-medicated idiot.
>>71982644
If you don't see the rampant overuse of antibiotics leading to the rapid evolution of defense mechanisms you're being willfully obtuse.
Not everything needs to be treated.
Everyone WILL die eventually, some earlier and more tragically than others. But that's life. People need to get over their fear of mortality.
>>71983201
Sure, but you qualified capability as being the requirement
>>71982512
>and the authority is capable of exerting enough (legitimate) coercive force from this group of subordinates to ensure its authority
And anyone does have that capability.
>>71971288
Funny you mention this
>Working shit job heavy labor to pay off tuition
>Middle finger in hand is in pain any time I bend it. Almost a sore dull pain
>Work through it but it gets worse
>On the weekend wrap it in a make shift splint
>Call out on injury (Work through temp agency so they don't give a fuck and offer no benefits. There is a line out the door for "undocumented" people)
>Figure its trigger finger and go to doctor since I am still young enough to be covered under fathers insurance
HUGE MISTAKE
>First off I don't drive because poor and can't afford lessons so had to make a whole day out of it
>Get there and immediately bombarded with paper work
>"20$ co-pay"
>Doctor looks at it for 1 minute and sends me to get an X-ray
"Its right up stairs"
>X-ray place isn't affiliated with my place so once again more paper work(Which is hard to do because parents aren't there and need their info)
"That will be a 35$ co-pay"
>"I just paid a co-pay downstairs I wasn't expecting this"
"Don't worry it will be sent in the mail" (Possibly along with other fees for the X-ray)
Tried to back out at this point but then I would be charged a cancellation fee.
>Get X-rays and of course the bones are okay because if the ligament tore the bone there would have been a bump on the knuckle. Also from the fact I could tell there was no bone damage
>Doctor refers me to tendon and ligament specialists even further out on the island
>Went online before and after this 6 hour ordeal
>Every source clearly states its best to rest the joint 3-6 weeks, unless pain continues
>In which case they will prescribe an Ibuprofen for inflammation, or in some cases inject a steroid to the site.
>Worst case preform surgery
The doctor didn't even give me a script and told me to get the office I go to, to fax them the script. The guy didn't even give me an actual finger splint when I asked.
Should I even bother setting up an appointment with the referral?
>>71980065
Stop avatarfagging you fucking idiot. Nobody cares who your "waifu" is.
>>71983201
>Sure I do; I like my family and they have most likely done nothing so reasonably objectionable to the murderer as to warrant them being killed.
That's not a moral objection to someone who believes might = right. You may not like something, but that doesn't mean there's anything moral to say about it. Might = right - if it happens it happens. There's nothing moral to say about it.
>>71983270
>Except that nobody is in any position to claim that besides an actual doctor, least of all a self-medicated idiot.
You don't even have to be a doctor. Psychologists can prescribe.these days.
>>71983343
>And anyone does have that capability.
Sure, a single person can slice the throat of seven billion other people. Will he likely be able to do so without others stopping him? Not at all. You're dealing in absolutes and meaningless thought experiments, which have no basis in reality.
>>71983365
I love you too leaf~
>>71973423
>amoxicillin
>take some amoxicillin that i had from some time or another that a doctor would have said to throw away
Your suppose to use all of the antibiotic dose you idiot. You could be single handedly creating super bugs.
>>71983457
It's your qualification - not mine. If you want to revise it you can.
>>71983496
yeah thats the myth
>>71982593
>>Why do poorer countries can do it, and america, one of the highest per capita countries can't?
>They can't with any reasonable speed, efficiency, or good service.
>America trades off expense in favor of speed and quality, albeit the expense is a bit too high.
That's not it. Some shitty countries have rather good health care for pennies compared to the U.S. They may not be able to handle advanced surgeries and rare disease treatments. But they'll treat common problems at a fraction of the cost.
The problem in the U.S. is that the entire health care industry indulges in anti-competitive behavior. In some cases they've paid off Congress to allow it (i.e. Obamacare). In others they just blatantly break the law because no AGs will prosecute.
Basically if your auto mechanic pulled half the shit your local hospital pulls, he would lose his business and spend 10-15 in prison.
Karl Denninger bitches about this all the time, with infuriating examples, on The Market Ticker.
If we eliminated ObummerCare, drug import restrictions, and enforced our existing consumer protection laws against health care providers, we probably wouldn't need anything more than catastrophic health insurance. All common visits / procedures would be affordable out of pocket or with small, short term loans.
>>71983496
>>not hoarding antibiotics as much as possible
it's like you just want to die in any extremity or not be able to take pills with you into the wilderness.
cuck.
>>71983419
did you not read the second part?
>TL;DR... or rather, might makes legitimate authority
Right requires might, but more people are likely to come to the same logical conclusion of what right is, and enforce it with might, than some psychopathic warlord who insists that 2+2=5.
We both know you're smarter than this, now stop trying to be a smartass by arguing basic terms and concepts; it's intellectually dishonest and the most annoying form of semantics.
>>71983578
>>71983656
Nice tinfoil.
>>71982548
Until you crete a superbacterya that kills non-tards
This happened in brazil,so I knoe what I am saying
>>71971288
Because you sound like a reasonably intelligent person but there are millions of fucking retards who are not.
>>71983731
>>this man doesn't own ANY ANTIBIOTICS
>>i do
>>he feels superior because of this
lol
>>71983849
ebin :^)
>>71971288
because you're dumb and probably wrong.
Worst thread I've ever seen on /pol/
This is what happens when everyone but Americans are asleep
>>71983671
>but more people are likely to come to the same logical conclusion of what right is
I don't know how you reach that conclusion, since the more people you add to an equation who have random qualities, the more likely it is that you get dissent rather than consensus.
You're not actually saying anything, which is why you're pretending I'm being dishonest/pedantic right now even though I'm not. And it's why I'm perfectly fine with devolving into posting cute anime girls and mocking you if you'd like to continue veering off topic.
>>71983581
>Some shitty countries have rather good health care for pennies compared to the U.S.
> drug import restrictions
This won't work.
The first thing that will happen is that Americans will buy up almost all drugs, creating a supply shortage in third world countries.
The second thing is that companies will just refuse to sell to those markets because its undercutting their bottom line.
So you'll end up with the same prices in the end.
>>71983656
>it's like you just want to die in any extremity or not be able to take pills with you into the wilderness
Yeah for shit hitting the fan, but you should know recommended doses if your going to stockpile
>>71983578
Its not. Its a rather serious issue
>went to doctor last year
>the doctor just googled the symptoms and wrote a recipe based on a webmd article
Fucker wasn't even subtle about it.
>>71971288
If youre good at it, nothing.
Now imagine every asshat you know who think they have cancer when they sneeze, self diagnosing, then self prescribing medicine?
I wont deny YOU can do it, but most cant, and if they were allowed society would be totally fucked.
The system is in place to protect everyone.
Since this threads here, I want to ask you pol.
I've been taking 6-8 benadryl every night to sleep. Am I going to die?
I take zoloft and trazodone as well.
Thanks doc.
>>71983981
>I don't know how you reach that conclusion, since the more people you add to an equation who have random qualities, the more likely it is that you get dissent rather than consensus.
Culture plays a big part into this; people who are part of western culture are more likely to hold freedom, individuality, progress, and so on and so forth as virtues (even passingly), and so will favor and legitimize states who support and promote those. I'm sorry that real life isn't as clear cut and simple as the ivory tower.
> And it's why I'm perfectly fine with devolving into posting cute anime girls and mocking you if you'd like to continue veering off topic.
Go ahead, I don't really care; we both know that you are, in fact, being pedantic and arguing semantics for the express purpose of eventually flustering me (or anyone you "debate" with), at which point you can go back to dumping your folder full of drawn yellow fever.
>>71983941
What a fucking *QUALITY* post!
>>71982644
>>knowing what you need
>How will you know? It take's a doctor and all his resources to determine the right treatment.
LMFAO! Most conditions aren't that complicated. Most treatments are rubber-stamp standardized.
Once again, an IQ of 120 and above, along with some Google Fu, can diagnose most shit.
I've made bets with friends. I've diagnosed their conditions and told them exactly what the doctor would prescribe. They go in...I win the bet.
It's not that hard. Not every case requires Dr. House.
>Chemists are qualified and have a legal obligation to dispense controlled drugs to people with prescriptions.
You could still have pharmacists in a world where more drugs are available OTC.
>You sound like a typical crybaby drug user OP. From antibiotics to morphine.
Yeah, sure, antibiotics are a gateway drug.
>>71983321
>If you don't see the rampant overuse of antibiotics leading to the rapid evolution of defense mechanisms you're being willfully obtuse.
I blame doctors as much as stupid patients. I've had to fight with doctors over AB when I very clearly had yellow pussy snot running from my nose (#1 sign it's bacterial). They want to wait...see if you get over it...etc. They misunderstand the mechanisms and risks as much as the IQ90 tard who would treat the flu with AB.
Rule 1: don't treat a viral infection with AB.
Rule 2: if there clearly is a bacterial infection, you FUCKING HAMMER IT. As early as possible, as strong as possible, and for as long as is necessary to kill it off. When doctors make you wait they are allowing the bacteria to replicate and grow. Larger population = harder to kill = greater chance that resistance cells will survive.
Doctors don't want to prescribe AB. Patients know this and when they do get AB they don't take it all. They horde. This is on top of often having to wait so the infection is worse. This is a perfect storm.
>>71984286
What the words in your arguments mean matter toward whether your conclusions are valid or not. Sorry to break it to you. I'd recommend taking a class on rationality/logic, since it's constructive and makes it abundantly clear why you need to do that. Even though I think it should be intuitively fucking obvious.
>>71984277
You're going to die anyway, but no that isn't helping your cause.
Also, depending on what kind of benadryl, way too much acetaminophen on a daily basis. Your liver will be dead in about 10 years if you dont drink or do other pills, which I assume you do.
>>71971897
>FBI.gov
>>71984003
>This won't work.
>The first thing that will happen is that Americans will buy up almost all drugs, creating a supply shortage in third world countries.
I see you've never had Intro to Macroeconomics? OK...
1) There is not an unlimited demand for drugs.
2) Allowing drug importation would level prices across the globe (for the most part). Prices else where would be a bit higher, but they would be a lot lower here.
3) Since drug companies make a profit even at the lowest prices in 3rd world shit holes today, they would continue to make a profit. They just wouldn't make a double profit at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer.
>The second thing is that companies will just refuse to sell to those markets because its undercutting their bottom line.
If the drugs weren't profitable RIGHT NOW in those markets they wouldn't be selling them.
>>71984003
>they'll only have a 8x markup instead of a 25x markup
oh heavens, how will they ever cover the patent costs?
>>71971897
As an agent in the FBI I'm pretty sure your insurance will cover it.
>>71972199
>went to Doctor
>tell him about stuff
>he opens Google, types in things, gives me prescription for what I already knew I needed
Why should the law make me pay for this?
>>71971288
No problem, but there is a barrier for stupid people. If you don't know where to buy meds online, you are not smart enough to do so.
>>71984704
>this anon gets it
If I had waited 2 minutes I wouldn't have even needed to post >>71984609
Americans have very libertarian views when it comes to guns, but very authoritarian when it comes to medicine.
Americans believe that anyone should get to own a gun, but only people with insurance and a prescription should be allowed to buy medicine.
I don't know why a country that is supposed to be based on freedom has such authoritarian views when it comes to accessing medicine. and a lot of people are harmed by this, they can't access prescription medicines so they take illegal drugs, take herbal medicine, and go to Mexico to purchase medicine.
>>71984469
it's just a sleep aid. just antihistamine.
i don't do acetaminophen since i do drink at least 3-5 nights a week.
>>71984609
>level prices across the globe
That's racist, you know. Americans must pay 100 times more, but 90% of that will be covered by "insurance".
>>71971288
in the internet age everyone thinks they are an armchair doctor
they're always wrong or at least partly wrong which could lead to fatal treatment
t. nurse
>>71983270
Retards like you amaze me.
>he's "qualified" based on standards that I don't have a clue about, of course you should do everything he says!
Do you ever think for yourself, or do you just rely on the "experts" to do it for you? Or is it a case of you being a coward?
>>71984609
>1) There is not an unlimited demand for drugs.
There's not. But the US is the third largest country in the world. What the you think will happen to a market that's less than an eight of the population, which are most countries in the world?
2) Allowing drug importation would level prices across the globe (for the most part). Prices else where would be a bit higher, but they would be a lot lower here.
Correct. But the change would entirely depend how rich the countries are and how large the markets are.
>) Since drug companies make a profit even at the lowest prices in 3rd world shit holes today, they would continue to make a profit.
>If the drugs weren't profitable RIGHT NOW in those markets they wouldn't be selling them.
Oh boy, let me simplify it for you.
You have 5 Americans and 5 Africans needing drugs.
The Americans pay $1000 per 30 day dose, and the africans pay $10 dollars.
The firms revenue is $5050 for that month.
You open the market, and the Americans buy up all the $10 dollar drugs.
Now you have the firm making $50 (the African can't afford the $1000 dollar pills, or maybe the firm decides to transport all of their drugs in storage to africa, so the firm earn a revenue of $100 dollars)
Anybody with half a brain would see that the firm would just refuse to sell in Africa. And sell all the drugs in America. With the firm making $5000 in the end.
>>71983482
You sound like a pretty intelligent guy based on your posts, and God knows this place is lacking there, so why ruin it by being filtered by half the users because of your insistence on posting cartoon images of little girls every time you reply or comment in a thread? It's stupid.
>>71985574
That grim scenario with Africa being cut off would only happen with very new meds, ones that don't have a generic. I'm not very confident about Africa, but in Russia, getting them is impossible nowadays as it is. Only generics are up for the dispute here, and for those we have our street shitting friends, India. They make meds for cheap and offer them for sale already. Except it's illegal to simply bring and sell them in USA, because that would cut deep into the health industry margins.
Let me put it into a similar example. It costs $5 to purchase 30 day dose from an Indian lab. African health proxy happily sells it for $10 to Africans that are smart enough to avoid witch doctors, and American health proxies sell it for $1000 to Americans. Opening borders would spell disaster for American health industry, so they hire lobbyists that prevent it from happening.
>>71985574
If your logic were true india/china would've put the entire pharma industry under by now.
As you can get any of those pills from them, for even cheaper than the african people get them.
You're applying some speculative sunk cost into the drugs.
Yes they'd be losing money, and yes that's okay, they'd still make a shitload!
They make WAY too much as it is, the markup is 4-5x worse than fucking woodworking, which is an actual skill. Not just piggybacking off of somebody else's discovery so you can patent it to limit the supply artificially.
>>71985816
Why would I ever give a single fuck what you or anyone else thinks, leaf?
>>71986119
>>Yes they'd be losing money, and yes that's okay, they'd still make a shitload!
This is not how a large company should think if it wants to make profit.
>>71986449
so we should just allow them to fleece the entire world dry because we're too beta and hopped up on their shit to stop them?
at a certain point profit becomes meaningless, unless we want a company to run the world overtly.
>>71986121
>I want to share my opinion, but I don't want anyone to hear it
You're filtered, so don't bother replying you fucking pedophile
>>71986649
Well you can resist, but you must be prepared to those companies fighting you back. They will hire lawyers and lobbyists to prove their ways right as long as it justifies an additional cent of profit.
Which means, if you want to cut their margins by a million dollars, you must be prepared to push back a million dollars worth of their lobby.
>>71986822
<3
>>71986039
>That grim scenario with Africa being cut off would only happen with very new meds
Not not really, because Americans just have vastly more income (orders of magnitude more).
Paying $35 dollars for a 30 day doze of omeprazole doesn't mean shit in murrica. But in 3rd World Countries it could be a weeks pay and could mean the difference in putting food on the table or not.
>>71986119
>As you can get any of those pills from them, for even cheaper than the african people get them.
Maybe in sketchy online stores, and the quality will most likely be dodgy: less purity, mislabeled doses, or they could just not work (its China).
But the amount of it entering the US is in all likelihood relatively small.
>You're applying some speculative sunk cost into the drugs.
You have no idea. Just making a new drug costs billions of dollars not to mention precious patent time that's spent during clinical trials which can take upwards of a decade (the patent is only for 20 years with some extensions given by the FDA). Also generics don't just spring up, you have to prove bio-equivalence and maintain your quality control. Not to mention the costs of manufacture which aren't trivial, especially for drugs that target rare diseases. And you have to continue to monitor for additional side-effects and drug-drug interactions.
No, its not cost-less.
>>71975596
So, there's this guy named Albert Alexander. One day he gets a small cut on his face gardening, and it turns into a serious bacterial infection. His entire head ends up covered in huge open sores, and doctors have to remove one of his eyes because the infection has killed it and it's just rotting there inside his skull.
The year is 1940, and two men named Florey and Chain are working on something called "penicillin." They've already tested the drug on terminally ill cancer patients (volunteers) - not to determine if it would cure them (they knew it wouldn't, cancer isn't bacterial), but to test its toxicity so that they know they can use it to treat people. They think they've finally got it pure enough that it won't make people sick, and Albert Alexander is dead either way - the perfect subject for their first real trial run. They have enough penicillin for five days, and by the end of those five days Albert Alexander's fever is down, his sores are healing, and he is eating of his own accord. Nonetheless, that is the end of their penicillin supply - even after attempting to recycle his urine and extract penicillin from it - and Alexander's infection returns. He spends the next four weeks fighting for his life and ultimately loses.
How long an antibiotic regimen should be is a complicated question. Your immune system isn't completely helpless, and sometimes a couple days of antibiotics will give your immune system the time and momentum it needs to do the rest of its job on its own. But sometimes you really need to kill every single mother fucking bacteria, either because the bacteria is too dangerous or because your immune system just isn't up to this particular battle. Albert Alexander very much "had it on the run," and then he ran out of antibiotics and died.
>>71986119
no for example noone go and do research on new things like drugs without gain profit that is one of main points why the communism break down you too whould not work for free... and there is the aspect of making drugs safe dosis/tests etc so noone could sue you for the side efects...
