Communist hate thread.
>>71931040
Sigh. I miss when this was a communist hate country. Didn't need any special forum.
Communism hate country reporting
>>71931040
daily reminder that arguing the capitalism vs communism meme is essentially the democrat vs republican meme
and arguing it is fucking stupid because you are all peasants anyways
>>71931040
Better dead than red, reporting in.
>>71933426
>>71931040
Why did the soviets push it on eastern europe? Why not on the muslim countries which deserved it?
>>71933533
>this wasn't real communism
Kek
Also Communism's biggest rival country reporting in
>>71933426
its not communism
its anarcho libertarianism FOR ONE MAN
I fucking hate commies
>>71933693
the muslim theocracies fought it off because they aren't weak gypsies that have shitty systems *pushed on them.
do you even history?
the most triggering thing for commies is being pro-israel.
Seriously, "Muh palestine" sends them into orbit.
>>71933426
>Lack of light pollution
Well even a broken form of government can do one thing right
>>71934072
I love how way back when it was the working class that was pushing for communism, but now people who don't work are the ones pushing it. Almost like they realized something.
>>71934341
I'm so tired of these fucking faggot communiggers shitting up my education, government and nationhood.
Why can't we just kill them all?
>>71934477
No it was the lazy "intellectual"class pushing it then too. They sung the praises of the proletariat in order to convince them to get with the killing. Today's leisure class sings the praises of Jamal and achmed.....
>>71934477
the working class never really pushed for it. lenin et. al. never held a job, neither did marx. they were true tumblerites before tumblr could possibly exist.
Any human paradigm is fucked long term because it doesn't account for the greediest rising to the top, which they always do.
Paradigms are poison, straight up.
>>71931502
holy shit this actually happened?
mfw surrounded by leftie faggots in a country more and more descending into bolshevism.
>>71934574
WHat is the name of that animated japanese cartoon?
>>71931040
Not commie anymore country reporting in
>>71935021
Try to live in Latin America, a place where the biggest socialist hero is Che Guevara, a fucking racist prick, and the ones who defend socialism are the blacks and poor
>>71935114
Jinroh.
>>71935271
>a fucking racist prick
>fought with Africans to depose imperialist governments
Either lying or ignorant, both are bad
>>71935527
thanks man
>>71935764
Exactly, when he fought with the africans he said that they were extremely stupid and thats why they would never win a war
hello
>>71935764
>The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese.
>The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations.
>>71936583
That might offend current year twitter mob sensibilities but hardly makes a case for being a racist especially since communist system he died for prohibits racism
>>71937125
>Communism prohibits racism
lel
>>71931319
epic meme XDDD
>>71934341
What's wrong with this?
Socialism:
>all people have access to goods, thus the shelves are empty
Capitalism:
>unused commodities are just sitting there while poor people starve in the streets
>>71937125
>I've never heard of pogroms.
>>71937402
>all people have access to goods, thus the shelves are empty
You're assuming goods made it to the shelves in the first place
hello from an ex-social-democrat country
ever since we reformed the economy according to imfs plan into a less state owned and more free-economy and capitalist system, the turkish economy has quadrupled in size
fuck the commies, reporting out
![North-Korea-DPRK-Trains-Pyongyang-Metro-Tour-14-800x600[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2hHHr5D.jpg "North-Korea-DPRK-Trains-Pyongyang-Metro-Tour-14-800x600[1].jpg")
>>71933426
If you're implying that DPRK doesn't have electricity, you're completely wrong. They just ration it out to just the essentials at nighttime, and photos like that have to be taken at nighttime.
>>71933533
>the people who are pushing for reform are the ones who are doing the same thing over and over
ebin meme
>>71934341
Is that Venezuela?
>>71937635
>the fact that they have a need to ration electricity isn't a bad sign
What the fuck! How is it not obvious that's a bad thing. No one thinks North Korea has no electricity, just that it's so fucking poor you can see the difference in wealth between it and South Korea from space.
>>71935021
>LGBTQI
What the fuck is the QI part?
>>71934477
>>71934758
>>71934799
Marx and Lenin held multiple jobs. The majority of sources saying they were unemployed bums are propaganda from the 1960s-1980s. You're delusional.
>>71935179
>all these commie countries with "democratic" in their name
>>71931040
Its not "consensual" trade, its volentary you retarded pinko.
>>71937441
Pogroms reached their peak under the Tsar's rule and the Nazi invasion.
>>71938100
>"Oriental" Republic of Uruguay
>Islamic "Republic" of Iran
Names aren't everything.
>>71935179
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOnIp69r6vg
>Rummel
>>71938408
so why exactly does Uruguay have "oriental" in it's name?
>>71938628
Oriental means Eastern, Uruguay is the Eastern Republic of Uruguay. The Western part is in Argentina I think.
>>71937402
People are in need of toilet paper in Venezuela
>>71934914
yes, but it doesnt matter, there are still tons of Lenin and Stalin statues in Ukraine
>>71939017
They are currently tearing a lot down apparently.
>>71937988
Do I look like I know what this tublr shit means?
>>71937988
Queer and Intergender.
>>71931502
i love the way his head just pops off
>>71939087
>mfw present day Ukraine got all its clay because of the commies
>mfw Ukrainian traditions and customs were encouraged by commies
>mfw I see shit like this
why are Ukrainians so fucking dumb
>you will never put the lefties that voted for Jeremy Corbyn on a boat and leave them in the middle of the atlantic to starve
>>71939309
>mfw Ukrainian traditions and customs were encouraged by commies
Mass slaughter is encouragement?
>>71931040
>tfw communism is know represented by morons who cant even identify their own gender
Communism is dying slowly with huge agony but dying
>>71933693
That's literally why the soviet union collapsed. They couldn't afford Afghanistan.
>>71939380
>le hoholodomor meme
agricultural and economic mismanagement at the time resulted in famines in a lot of commie places then, not just ukraine
>>71938516
well memed, but does it disprove his point?
>>71937441
Trotskyist detected
>>71939502
>Kill millions of people
>Kill all of the intellectuals etc that help form high culture
>We were just trying to help your culture!
>>71939691
butthurr cockhole detected
go cry about crimea
>>71939818
Fuck off Commie scum.
>>71939818
Not an argument
>>71939877
lmao
>>71939881
:^)
>>71939985
Why don't you move to one of the Communist utopias live Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea? Do you not want to experience the glorious culture of the worker's state?
So instead of trying to engage in any kind of debate with Marxists or making valid criticisms of Marxist ideology you guys just circlejerk in your echo-chamber thread while using the terms you don't understand, like Socialism and Communism, interchangeably?
>>71940097
>implying I am a commie
it seems as though your butthurt has blinded you
>>71940135
Fuck off to /leftypol/ Communist scum. Marxists do not deserve debate, they deserve death.
>>71940241
You defend Soviet atrocities of Ukrainian people, you are a Communist sympathiser.
>>71939228
The Q actually stands for Questioning.
and no, I'm not a fag.
>>71940135
We already had a debate, it was called the Cold War.
>>71940312
Please point me to where I defended them
>>71940135
Kill yourself retard, god bless Thatcher
>socialism has never been tried
What do you say to this /pol/?
>>71940135
That "debate" is had quite frequently on /pol/, and usually just ends with the commie screaming that life isn't fair after they get btfo by ten different anons
>>71935021
>Communists stand with LGBTQI + Blacks
Literally, the shittiest shit that can ever happen on this planet.
>>71940708
You feel the Bern when you hit the pavement.
>>71940832
>talking in a derogatory manner about communists and modern Ukrainians = defending the commies
hmmmmmm
>>71935877
>they were extremely stupid and thats why they would never win a war
He's not wrong.
>>71940708
>proud autistic
>using Autism $peaks puzzle piece
Yeah, okay Sergei.
>>71935179
As you can see, on average, maximum lifespan of a socialist regime is 69, and never exceeded that number. China now is 57 old. Therefore, after about 12 more years China's regime will collapse with 100% probability.
You screencap this.
>>71941014
You act like Ukrainians should be grateful to the Soviets for things when the Soviets destroyed Ulraine, massacred Ukrainians and destroyed the intelligentsia.
At what point did commies go from being badass and ruling 1/3 of the world to being disgusting SJW'S.
Why
>>71931040
Joke's on you american.
Your economy is already a centrally managed, shambling wreck. In 20 years time, you'l consider the Brezhnev years as somethign to aspire to.
>>71941410
The early Soviet Union was like modern SJWs, abolished marriage and family, legalised homosexuality and abortion etc. It was only because Stalin became leader that these things stopped.
>>71939377
>a vegan dying of starvation
it would be poetry
However, it's too late. Next month london gets a paki for a mayor.
>>71941410
Because communism only works for lazy people and lazy people are becoming more degenerate.
>>71941185
China is not communist or socialist or whatever else. It's just a corrupt totalitarian state but economically they are just as capitalist as any western nation.
>>71941311
they should be
too bad the Soviets didn't finish the job properly
>>71941672
No, Ukrainians should not. All Eastern Europeans should spit upon Soviet legacy. Only brainwashed Gopniks think otherwise.
>>71941603
>Prohibiting the iPhone sale and punishing the iPhone smugglers
No, they are. As long as the government sticks its nose into business' business, it is said to be socialist.
>>71941603
They are becoming more capitalistic, however they are by no means as capitalistic as western countries. Not even as capitalistic as many of the countries progressives call "socialist."
>>71934800
Does anyone know any good books about the history of the ussr that has info like this? More specifically how they divided and subjugated people using tactics like this
>>71941853
The US is just as fond of protectionism and was even more in the past.
>>71941877
How can you say what? What metric are you using?
>>71942056
>The US is just as fond of protectionism and was even more in the past.
I never said that the U.S. is not socialist.
>>71938987
kek
>>71931040
>>71942056
>What metric are you using?
This: http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
>>71942272
Oh the irony
>>71942486
>random think tank ranking
Sorry but those things are meant to be propaganda, rather than an actual academic. You're not supposed to take them seriously.
>>71937402
In communist countries, people wait for bread.
In capitalistic countries, bread wait for people.
>>71942720
And who said that? You? Ok, sir.
Command economy doesn't work.
Look at China after they went to market economy in the early 90s.
Communism can't ever work in modern times, because the economy is too complex for ever a super-computer to plan, and people would just slack off or be unproductive.
What we need is Market Socialism, where free trade is guaranteed to an even greater degree than it is now, and the greatest strength of capitalism is allowed to shine, while commerce and profits serve the needs of the workers.
>>71942272
Why doesn't Colombia invade Venezuela?
>>71940135
>>71942708
I know dude. Our venezuelan neigbors are having a tough time.
>>71940549
looks like you got BTFO leftist scumbag
have fun telling the faggots in /his/ how awesome it was over here and how you "won" LOL FUCKING FAGGOT.
An end to the debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZBLML9seIo
>>71943321
idk man, actually the opposite is happening, they're invading us. There´s around 80.000 venezuelans already here in Bogota.
>>71943236
>Market socialism
So basically communism rebranded as free market?
>>71940135
>Using Marxists and debate in the same sentence.
>Implying Marxists debate.
>Implying Marxist views are valid.
Commies deserve to be thrown out of helicopters by Pinochet.
>>71943236
>free trade is guaranteed to an even greater degree than it is now
>while commerce and profits serve the needs of the workers
I don't think you understand the "market" half of your retarded "market socialism".
>>71940135
>>71944628
Immagine the Capitalist system we have now. Now imagine all private enterprises become owned by their workers and run democratically, as worker coops like Mondragon already do. That is Market Socialism. no need to put scare quotes around it, it's a well established ideology.
>>71945236
The best part is the part where it can only exist in your head.
>>71945236
So, if co-ops already exist, and this system is so desirable, what is stopping it from becoming reality? What you're suggesting does not require some sort of legal or political shift in society, it just requires new enterprises to start as co-ops rather than traditional businesses.
>>71937988
Question and Answer
>>71945236
You see, you neglect one simple thing: capitalism always uses the most efficient way to produce something with maximum profits and minimum expenses, and so that both the producers and consumers were happy. Therefore, if the system you are talking about has not yet been implemented in capitalism on its own, then it simply means that it is not efficient, and thus not reliable system at all.
>>71945236
i think yugoslavia was pretty okay
pls no h8
>>71946488
>capitalism always uses the most efficient way
One caveat; capitalism does this, but the market only operates within the framework of government regulation (ignoring the black market, which in stable countries is relatively tiny). Simply because a system hasn't been realized before does not mean it is impossible or ineffective; government coersion can serve to incentivize certain practices and reduce the efficacy of others.
That said, I agree with you. There are no barriers to forming co-ops now, and yet people aren't all jumping on board the market socialism train.
>>71937402
>all people have access to goods, thus the shelves are empty
>>71947052
>government coersion can serve to incentivize certain practices and reduce the efficacy of others
Of course I meant capitalism with a free market. What's happening in the U.S. now is mostly socialism, and keeps progressing towards that way further.
>http://www.heritage.org/index/country/unitedstates
>The regulatory burden continues to increase. Over 180 new major federal regulations have been imposed on business operations since early 2009 with estimated annual costs of nearly $80 billion. Labor regulations are not rigid, but other government policies, such as excessive occupational licensing, restrict growth in employment opportunities. Damaging monetary policies, tangled webs of corporate welfare, and various subsidies have bred economic distortions.
>>71946696
Everyone is just gonna ignore your post because you are right
>>71940135
Yeah, I've seen the kind of commies that come here, they're just angsty wannabe revolutionaries no different than the bitter stormfag loser archetype they try to laugh at.
>>71940135
/pol/ is pure
*sniffs*
*adjusts shirt*
Ideology.
>>71935179
I think communism can go eat shit, but 1000 000 people is a gross, gross exaggeration for Yugoslavia, especially if it excludes WWII.
What exactly are these numbers based on?
>>71945965
That should be done wherever possible, buying the means of production away from their current owners is a difficult task, and the long history of capitalist terror shows they wont usually go willingly. When their ownership of the means of production was never aquired morally, I don't see why violence to speed up the transition shouldn't be seen.
>>71946488
>Capitalism is always efficient
This sort of religious mysticism is cancer. Capitalism has little to do with efficiency. Capitalist businesses will go bankrupt, operate wildly inefficiently, and then use force to usurp the government and kill competition. Capitalists will destroy entire industries, and the tragedy of the commons can most readily be seen in private property. Capitalism is simply a means of production, and it's no wonder that a system where the means of production are owned privately, for the good of private individuals, will continue to function for the good of private individuals. Would the Absence of capitalism 1000 years ago in feudal Europe betray the inferiority of capitalism and the supremacy of monarchy? The means of exchange, that is markets, is what matters in the equation.
>>71931502
>Lenin getting hanged
It's poetry.
>>71947420
Imagine how good it would have been without communism, then.
>>71947734
>the means of production was never aquired morally
How so? In your view, can the private ownership of capital ever be moral?
>>71933426
>Lestrawmen.jpg
This picture was during a total blackout.
>>71947052
The thing about regulations that have always been in such systems is that even if the government imposes something, the monopolists and major players of that regulated market do not give a single fuck and either ignore it simply because they are too big government can something about them, or they will simply evade them. The thing about regulations is that they deter new businesses from coming to the market and make it impossible for small and medium-sized businesses to declare their right to compete. Thus, government by implementing regulations, not consciously knowing it, creates all the monopolies itself.
>>71931502
Needs the song from Jojo's right before the head pops off.
>>71947734
Your understanding of capitalism is bullshit. Read Rothbard.
>>71945236
Now imagine a portion of those private enterprises going into debt, and going bankrupt as businesses tend to do in a free market.
Do the workers/owners pool their limited resources, mortgaging their homes to start a new business? What do they do after that, if they fail again? Do other businesses take them on, giving them shares for free? How will it go over with the rest of the workers to have a successful year, but smaller individual earnings? Will the new employees have lesser shares and entitlements, taking us back to the current system?
Coops are only one type of voluntary agreement between people in an enterprise. You can't make it the only option without throwing the concept of a "free market" out of the window.
>>71947868
Technically we didnt have communism
we had something called pink communism
>>71946560
I have yet to hear any explanation as to why people like this post. It has absolutely no discernible point besides the poor desire to murder anyone privileged enough to own a library card. Does this poster believe the true poor are naked mole rats with literally no possessions, and that poor as shit Americans who own a phone and microwave are a privileged class above them? I don't think this OP is remember the Russian revolution, I think he's remember Doctor Zhivago. The USSR wasn't lead by the most impoverish commissars, the poorest people, the Peasants, where quite frequently the staunchest enemies of the soviet regime. They were lead by many educated, Middle class Bolsheviks.
Besides, I completely disagree with all tenets of the Soviet Union, they were close to a slave state in the 1930s, and had no worker control, that's why I advocate market socialism in directed opposition to Stalinist planned economics. I'm not asking you to trust me with power. DO NOT CONCENTRATE POWER. give the power directly to the workers. TAKE THE POWER FOR YOURSELF.
>>71947963
>ignore it simply because they are too big government can something about them, or they will simply evade them.
Most often they simply abide by them, because they are the only ones who can afford to, and it's a small price to pay for keeping competition out of the market for the reasons you went on to mention.
And then you get instances, like in the banking industry when the Fed came to be, where businesses actually lobbied for more regulation in order to protect themselves and their position in the market. But every time, that shit always gets spun as a step toward "responsible business" or "consumer protection" and people voters eat it up.
>>71947868
It was in-between socialism and capitalism, leaning more towards socialism but you could as about as you can do today regarding private business.
>>71939502
Jesus Christ you are fucking retarded. I've seen some edgelords and retards on here but you take the cake. You're actually autistic.
At least it comforts me to know you are likely poor.
>>71947734
> Capitalist businesses will go bankrupt
Is it a bad thing? It's simply a measure that does not allow unstable and weak members of the market to compete further, in order to free that places for future, more efficient entrepreneurs.
>operate wildly inefficiently
Do you have proofs about private businesses operating inefficiently?
>the tragedy of the commons can most readily be seen in private property
Which tragedy? If you can't see, business are already ruled by members of those businesses. What about board of directors? What about stockholders? They all interested in gaining their share, thus they will do everything in order to make their business as much efficient as possible.
>Capitalism is simply a means of production
No it is not. It is firstly a system that allows producers and consumers follow mutual interests and exchange their abilities to satisfy each other.
>>71940135
Labor theory of value a shit. A SHIT.
This guy says
Fuck your leftist delusions
>>71947872
>can private ownership of capital ever be moral
Short answer: no
Long answer: Only if you define personal ownership of capital as private ownership, where you use the capital for your own personal ends, and don't employ others through wage labor. in my usage. Private ownership means ownership of capital you don't use.
You can own the land you live on. you cannot rent land, you don't live on it.
>>71948905
here comes the cetnik
watch out guys
>>71948548
>And then you get instances, like in the banking industry when the Fed came to be, where businesses actually lobbied for more regulation in order to protect themselves and their position in the market. But every time, that shit always gets spun as a step toward "responsible business" or "consumer protection" and people voters eat it up.
Exactly. Great point, sir.
>>71948907
On what grounds do you draw an ethical distinction between "private" and "personal" property? What makes the two fundamentally different?
Similarly, why do you think a worker doesn't have the right to sell his own labor?
>>71948907
>this whole post
jesus christ
>>71948976
Would rather be a četnik than a deluded kiddo that does not have a grasp of basic economy principles
>>71949147
shoo cetnik shoo
go remove some kebab or something otherwise ill call for another operation storm
>>71948907
>>71948288
>>71947734
>>71945236
Helicopter worthy bitches.
>>71949284
>Calls moi a nationalist
>Mentions biggest nationalist operation on the Balkan Peninsula
Quality kek m8
>>71948907
While that makes sense within the ideology of Marxism, it's not reflective of reality at all. Use of labor isn't "theft" or " exploitation", as both the owner of capital and the laborer benefit from voluntary exchange.
The reason Marxism is so dangerous is because it's an internally consistent ideology. The labor theory of value, the basis of all of Marx's writings, is garbage though.
>>71948907
>can private ownership of capital ever be moral
>Short answer: no
I just can't not to bring Friedman at this point.
Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A
>>71949410
WAIT PRESIDENTE I'M NOT WITH THEM
>>71949053
I thought I explained it pretty clearly
Personal property is property you use.
Private property is property you don't use, but use force to prevent other people from using. Renting and Wage labor are activities conducted using private property.
>Do workers not have the right to sell their own labor.
The right to sell your labor is the right to be exploited for someone elses profit. The only conceivable relationship where someone sells their labor is one where that he is being compensated with is less than the value of what he makes. in a system free of coercion, workers would never be employed in wage labor.
I always attach this to every post, because people don't seem to get it: If workers need management, if they need administration, they will hire it.
>>71931040
>>71937125
>communist system he died for prohibits racism
Che was not willing to die for his cause, and begged for his life before being executed.
>>71949918
>I thought I explained it pretty clearly
You explained your definition of those two terms. I asked you to explain the ethical distinction. Why is owning property you don't personally use immoral?
> in a system free of coercion
Define coersion, in the context of the employment agreement, between a worker and an employer.
>>71948907
Yes you can rent land. The levels of Autism in this post.
>>71940135
Common sense shouldn't be debated
>everyone is equal in every right
>a janitor makes as much as a rocket scientist
>rocket scientist becomes a waiter since it's low effort
>no people making shit
>economy collapses
>free stuff runs out
>>71948905
>Oh look, it's the fag
ahhh poor stormfags hitlerites butthurt about a war which happened and ended way before they were even born.
>>71949737
Still helicopter worthy.
>>71950621
>>71950621
>capitalism = hitler
nice argument you got there
>>71931040
Oh look, lolbertardian liberals fighting commie liberals.
>>71949918
You're arguing that if I were to turn $100 of raw materials into $200 of finished products in a factory for a wage of $50, that I've been exploited by $50, yes? This is the basis of the labor theory of value.
However, you're not accounting for a myriad of other factors, namely risk and discounting.
You also obviously don't understand wages. Workers aren't exploited and given bare minimums, they're paid according to their productivity. Every worker making more than the minimum wage is proof of that.
>>71945236
So basically forcefully take away the property of the capitalist, that he or his parent have created, give it to the mob and let it be ruled by one of the worst political systems in the world.
Yeah that is a moral and well functioning system you got there bro.
>>71933426
North korea is also democratic IF IT SAYS IT ON THE NAME IT MUST BE TRUE
>>71950741
Kill yourself like your leader.
inb4 MUH HITLER DIDNT KILL HIMSELF. Then go run away like a coward if that is the case.
Serb here, fuck Tito
>>71947734
>hen use force to usurp the government and kill competition
OK so limit the power of the government then
>>71940135
This, you just have to see what happens when a polyp visits leftypol and faces real arguments instead of memes.
>>71951079
You're just butthurt that people have differing opinions
this is a politically incorrect board if you are just so mad at that
then kindly fuck off
>>71931502
WE ARE VICTIMS OF COMMUNISM!1!11!12
>>71937849
>Caracas, Venezuela
>>71951661
There are no arguments to be had, the entire ideology has been debunked since 1534 by simply saying, private property aka capital is not immoral
>>71935877
so is the choice between being a racist or being a liar?
>>71950177
>What is the ethical distinction
One is worked, the other is not. I assumed we had some shared heritage when it came to ethics. Even libertarians concede that ownership of property is justified by labor through the "homestead principle", as half baked as that may be. I can't claim I own the moon, even if I was the first to claim it. Putting my claim on a piece of paper wouldn't change that, nor would getting it stamped with a prestigious looking seal, and finally, if the owners of that seal agree with the contents of that paper and resolve to kill anyone who infringes on it, I still don't have justified ownership of the moon. It's only if I travel to the moon, build a fence around it, and build a house to live in that people have any reason to reckon that I own the moon.
>Where is the Coercion in an employment agreement
"Oy vey, Goyim, You I will let you use Tool A that I didn't make to produce on your own Product B, which I will take in it's entirety, and I will return to you a fraction of Product B's value in the form of wages"
"No thanks Mr. Shekelburg. I think I will use Tool A to produce Product B, and sell it myself for my own profit. I do not see your utility in this equation. It seems to me like you are a unnecessary parasite, who takes away from the value of what I produce to sustain yourself, despite adding zero value to the product. However, if the need for financial or managerial skill arises, I will voluntarily negotiate with the full value of my labor to hire such skill from you or another other actor."
"If you decide to do that, I will call the Police, National Guard, and Army to kill you, because I have paperwork which declares these tools to be for my private use only, even although they are created, maintained, and used by workers, and my own role is merely parasitic"
>>71952007
Using said capital to exploit the workers seems pretty inmoral to me
>>71951661
>lefypol
>real arguments
I have never seen the greater irony and paradox at the same time.
>>71952172
>even although they are created, maintained, and used by workers
Initially created in exchange for money via voluntary contract. Money that was borrowed from someone else by the capitalist. He took all the risk, and he organized everything, using financial and managerial skill (which you've recognized as having value).
The only parasite is the communist scum who thinks he is entitled to the labor of others, who denies the need and utility of voluntary associations and agreements, and who seeks to destroy anyone standing in the way of his gibsmedats.
>>71938987
nice
>>71952411
>visits leftypol and faces real arguments instead of memes
>brings out a commie meme
They are not exploited, they can leave the capitalist whenever they feel like it.
Do the faggot right even read any political philosophy or is it all memes and feelings? No better than SJW's.
>>71950938
Workers are not paid according to their productivity. The trend in modern times shows wages decreasing as productivity has been increasing. Wages are based on factors of supply and demand, not merit.
>>71950987
All glory to the mob, the incarnation of progress.
>>71942003
The Sword and the Shield is a good book, even though it focuses on the KGB and their international operations.
There's also The Russian Revolution by Sheila Fitzpatrick. Also a well researched book on the early history of the USSR.
>>71952876
A: when the mob gets the capital they fuck up
B: you have ruined an individual, the capitalist
C: this is the average moral caliber of a communist
>>71934800
it was invented by Arthur comte de Gobineau though you fucking tit
>>71953101
kill all capitalists
>>71953237
Why?
>>71941185
>Amerifats in charge of scientific studies.
>>71952826
Yes they can choose between starving to death or get the value of your labor stolen from you
>>71952876
>The trend in modern times shows wages decreasing as productivity has been increasing
It's not about workers. It's the automatic machinery that replaces workers and can perform the same job human performs twice as efficiently and requires minimum to none payment. But isn't technology is what you leftists worship to? At the end, you are the ones who suffer from it. "Oh! Great! Tesla now made all the assembly line fully automatic! What a wonderful thing! Technologies are so cool!" Yeah, but 5000 Mexican immigrants who could do the same job do not think so. It is up to you to decide what is moral, and what is not.
>people who complain about gommies
>braindamaged americans who gets propaganda brainwashed since kids
>butthurtbelters
Yeah I know we are here on pol and you guys will probablay complain about gommies in 1000 years
>>71953353
>Your labour is not being stolen
>you can become a private contractor or more precise become the capitalist if you feel you are being exploited, you don't need to starve
>>71953353
When you live in the woods by yourself, your options are to starve to death or to work to keep yourself alive. It is not capitalism that is oppressing you, it's just reality. Humans do not come with some sort of entitlement to stay alive; they must work.
Also, there you go using "value" incorrectly. Value is subjective. Nothing has inherent value; a thing is only as valuable as someone else believes it to be. If I work my ass off digging a hole in the desert that nobody, not even myself, wants, I don't get to claim that the hole is worth a billion dollars. It's worth as much as whatever someone pays me for it.
My name's Hunter and my grandaddy served in WW3 (aka NAM), ever since I was youngen he'd tell me stories about how brave he was when he gave it to 'em over in the fields. Boy those stories were swell, how he'd massacre the farmers and feel proud. That's why ya gotta hate the commies, because if ya don't what would be the point of WINNING the great cold war? God damn I love getting fucked in the ass by capitalism, FREEDOMarket more like?!
>>71937975
>commies
>not thinking of incredibly insane mentail gymnastics to justify their failed religion
>>71952717
I don't see how risk is any foundation for ethics. After this long Tirade about the ethics of private property, you expect me to accept risk as an ethical tool? you can have risk in criminal enterprises. If a capitalist wants risk, he can take his shekels to the casino. With limited liability, speaking about whatever minor risk someone assumes is negligible. This is all separate from the actual labor of management, which he may not even perform. He's just an owner, that doesn't entail he actually does work as a CEO. If his labor is as valuable as you say it is, then you shouldn't be afraid of letting his involvement be dictated by the free market.
>>71953789
Marx literally goes through this with his "totality of needs and drives". Do a little bit of reading lad.
>>71954307
Marx, however, only includes basics along with concepts drawn from his own imagination about how people are perfect and not greedy and jealous. He, however, neglects the transferring of his concepts to reality simply because it will not work. Das Kapital is simply a concept, and even more of a fiction. It does not explain the relationship between the system Marx describes, nor the reason for why it should work (class struggle is not a reason).
>>71954307
So tell me how is the capitalist exploiting the worker?
>there are legit commies in this thread
Make like your precious commie countries and collapse.
>>71954076
>failed religion
>what is China
>>71954810
Do not attack commies on their policies first and foremost, they will just pull the "not true communism maaaaan"-card, attack their philosophical and moral reasoning which will eventually shut them up because communism is not moral it is the absolute opposite of moral in it is essence it is the forceful removal of individual property
>>71954695
Dialectically the rise of the capitalist class should lead to the the rise of a stronger working class; this leads to the working class overthrowing said capitalist class.
It's Hegelian philosophy applied to the material world.
>>71954726
Surplus value. The capitalist owns the means of production, and is not usually involved in the creation of produce. The workers at his company are the ones that are doing that; they create capital for the capitalist. All the capitalist needs to do is maintain the means of production and he's golden.
Capitalist, why is agricultural industry unable to develop itself? Why do they always get huge subsidies from government? What is wrong with? Why do capitalism not work in this industry?
>>71948471
>"give power directly to workers"
>Workers, whomever they are, realize once again that pure democracy is impossible to work out on a timely and orderly fashion
>Workers, then, must create committees and councils to represent their interests and decisions as a people
>By necessity, these councils and committees will enforce executive actions and policy
>Congratulations, you have a small, elite set of people running your government.
Doesn't matter how high-minded the ideals are. After a generation or two, that rudimentary government will be chock-full of power-hungry, ambitious firebrands and bureaucrats. It'll probably descend into that much quicker when its philosophical basis descends from populists and demagogues violently overthrowing the previous rulers, combined with the political and economic chaos that usually follows a Communist takeover.
Really, I have yet to hear any explanation as to why Communists still believe the working man won't hand over political power to the nearest opportunist he can find (or become that opportunist himself) like every other major system of government in history.
>>71955354
>The workers at his company are the ones that are doing that; they create capital for the capitalist.
Okay, riddle me this: if "capitalist" does nothing and is basically a parasite, then what stops workers from banding together and creating their own business, complete with equality and just rewards? In this case they can even give away their produce to the needy at no charge!
>>71955354
The worker is entering into a voluntary contract with the capitalist, they are not exploited, The capitalist owns the means of production in a limited area that is his property/capital which he has invested in by definition it his to do as he pleases with and you have no moral right to interfere.
The workers can prove that they are superior to the capitalist by investing, getting the means of production in another limited area and outcompete him in the free market. This obviously will not happen since groups(workers) are incompetent but the individual(the capitalist) is not
>>71956359
that's not how capitalism works for a start, or how socialism works either.
Stop getting rekt by Givi and read a book.
>>71956504
You sound like one of those Ayn Rand cucks. Don't tread on me please :((((((((
>>71937988
Limeysexual
>>71956662
>thrown the flag of Novorussia
Finally, the fact that you full of shit is confirmed.
>>71956662
Do you have an argument?
Im not Rand-fag, I'm a LARPY monarchist but using NAP is the best way of fucking over religious people like yourself
>>71956872
u wat amerifat? Was replying to some Ukrainian.
>>71956936
monarchist
LITERALLY THE MEMEIST OF POLITICS
Explain to me why you want to be cucked by a family of elites.
>>71956662
>that's not how capitalism works for a start, or how socialism works either.
So you have no answer, right?
>>71934758
This
>>71956359
the goal of the revolution is to overthrow the bourgeoisie so the workers can control the means of productions they created and have been operating for years. Capitalist claims to ownership are based on capital and private property rather than labor.
A revolution exists to smash capitalism, communism will follow.
you should pose your question to reformist.
tl;dr revolution because the poor are sick of the existence of the parasitic bourgeoisie
>>71957134
The worker is entering into a voluntary contract with the capitalist, they are not exploited,
> Everyone needs to work, to put food on their table. Just because you send off your CV to a company doesn't mean they're suddenly moral. If we were locked in prison and the only was to eat was to get ram by big black jamal - that wouldn't be moral would it?
The capitalist owns the means of production in a limited area that is his property/capital which he has invested in by definition it his to do as he pleases with and you have no moral right to interfere.
>Why not, I work there and do everything whilst he's at golf. He can die for all I care.
>>71936031
Hi
...... How've you been since '89? I hope we're on speaking terms; it's been so long
Why are western socialists and communists bunch of retarded SJW nigger loving cucks
Look at southern american or asian commies. Militias willing to live in jungle for 20 years, eat nothing but leaves, sleep in huts made out of 7.62 ammo boxes and their own shit and fight to death for the ideology they believe in (No matter how retarded it is) and would never relinquish it.
And compare it with the limp wristed western SJW cucks that get triggered and break down in tears the moment someone disagrees with them.
Now dont get me wrong, im a right wing conservative.but why the fuck is western civilisation left wing so pathetic?
>>71936031
>>71937628
fuck off roach
>>71957049
>They are expert at killing Commies like yourself
>it is the natural order of hierarchy
>the nation is in the good hands of the monarch since his children will inherit it which will force him to make the best national decisions, it is a way of making the nation into a capitalist endeavour
>since the individual leads better than the group monarchism is superior to communism, democracy, republics, and anarchy
>>71957683
Their not commies, they just trying to use ideology to justify their narco micro state.
>>71957792
Tell that to the Tzar lol
Does this political view of yours ever leave your bedroom? Like I've never met a monarchist in real life because they're all fucking autistic.
>>71957848
I am not talking about FARC in particular. Historical communists in general were much more devoted and loyal to their ideology than western commies are. Vietcong, PLA during the civil war and so on.
and they most definitely were not self hating cucks
>>71957377
>parasitic
lmfao, wow,could you be any more childish?
You do realize that the laborers will become the parasites under communism, right? Once the workers start doing as little as they can to get by(which is something people are prone to do) you'll see productivity suffer. With productivity dropping, quality of life will drop too.
Is standing in a bread line something that you fantasize about?
>>71940135
What is here to discuss just look at post communist countries and now compare it to west.
Why isnt communism treated like nacism by normies?
>>71958136
(which is something people are prone to do)
Stop projecting your laziness amerifat.
>>71958153
Not enough diaspora from commie clock nations preaching the dangers of communism.
The beauty of capitalism is that it allows for any other form of economy to operate beneath it. You think socialism is great? Set up a socialist coop, or donate to legitimate causes. You think communism is the best? Establish a commune. Capitalists will not kill you for pursuing those models. The problem with those other forms is that you are jailed or killed for attempting to practice capitalism. They historically require violent revolutions and purge people who are not extreme enough. The worst a capitalist will do is call you stupid and let you die for your bad decisions.
>>71957510
>applying morals to political system
>absolutely_disgusting.png
How moral is it that private property is valued above the needs of society? Let the poor be poor because involuntary sharing would be 'immoral?'
To all leftist, do not engage in moralism. There is no morality. Smash capitalism because our class interest says it is beneficial, if we were bourgeoisie we would not want to smash capitalism, hell, we might even make arguments declaring property rights to be divine.
NO! We are poor disillusioned masses, left to rot without work or social safety nets. We are powerless, in this system power is money, and we have no money. We have awoken from the capitalist notion of meritocracy. We have learned it is not what you know, but who you know. fuck the media, that does not address these issues, the one who drone on about, making things more business friendly and deregulation. In a time of growing inequality and a state that does not persecute the crimes of the wealth, people dare complain about creeping socialism. Well, hell to them. What will they say when there is marching Communism?
Workers of the world unite!
>>71941567
A paki with possible links with ISIS
There is a spectre haunting /pol/ - the spectre of communism.
>>71958136
>Once the workers start doing as little as they can to get by(which is something people are prone to do) you'll see productivity suffer. With productivity dropping, quality of life will drop too.
this is a great thing worker automating their jobs is too be celebrated.
If you can get a robot to do your job, or the factory commissions engineers to do so, go for it.
>>71958261
Look around yourself and honestly tell me that there are no lazy people in your country.
>>71958386
was in reply to some classcuck claiming that it was moral. It's economic dialectics or nothing lad.
