Should duels be legalized?
>>71900426
Its pretty regular here among more aggressive men to challenge eachother to "1 on 1" outside if one is insulted.
I've been in one, I lost and im pretty glad murder is not legal tbqh
>>71900681
Did you challenge the other guy or were you challenged?
>>71900426
Yes, 100%.
>>71900681
Duels aren't the same as murder because one gives his consent. If you sign a liability contract for say, going on a rollercoaster, and then you die on the rollercoaster, the owner of the rollercoaster cannot be charged with murder.
Bar fights are not the same as codified duels governed by strict regulations.
>>71900681
Back in the day it was only legal to shoot if your opponent drew their weapon too.
>>71900925
Fatalities were rare in duels fought here in the American South.
Often, the participants would meet the field at the appointed time and intentionally throw away their shots so that both gentlemen could preserve their honor and prove themselves to not be a coward.
>>71900681
I think 1v1 fights are legal in washington if you have a police officer on standby essentially as an umpire. The fighters just need to verbally tell the cop they agree to the fight.
If you legalized it, how would you regulate it?
>get in an argument with a dude in a bar
>you take it outside like men
>he pulls a gun and shoots you dead
>walks away because he told the cops you was just duelin'
>>71900925
The thing about duels was that it kept a lid on talking shit.
If you weren't prepared to back up your mouth with your sidearm, you shut the fuck up.
We need some of that today...
>>71901034
Really? This is pretty interesting. Do you mean Washington DC?
>>71901143
The major problem today (one of them at least) is that it's incredibly easy to just talk shit anonymously. You can't challenge anon to a duel...
>>71901087
Like a trial in a courtroom. Legal duels by appointment which needs to be witnessed by an official. If it ain't legit it's a murder.
>>71901021
Fatalities tended to be uncommon in American dueling as a whole.
Duelists tended to shoot only to maim, and the primitive firearms they used were a) not all that deadly and b) not all that accurate.
>>71901202
Yeah DC. It's called the mutual combat law.
mutual combat is legal in a few areas, ive read. cant remember where though. im thinking it was like oregon or washington
>>71901087
That's why they made it a public affair.
Problem was, often those sympathetic to the loser would try to bullshit the outcome.
>>71901087
I think back in the days usually the duelists both had witnesses or sidekicks or something like that.
>>71900762
I was the challenger.
>guy hits on my gf
>i challenge 1v1
>guy is apparently some kickboxer or something and I lose pretty quick
atleast i impressed the girl so i kinda won
>>71900426
Televised gladiator battles for inmates on death row.
>>71901276
Here's a legal fist fight being witnessed by an officer. Skip to the 4 minute mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bRp2-ihx10
>>71901269
im pretty sure i remember that the vast majority of duels were settled by shooting into the air, basically saying "we cool brah" if both parties showed to the duel.
then there were the times when people just wanted to shoot a motherfucker is his faggy face
>>71901380
>We didn't have to become Rome
>>71901380
>>71901458
don't worry about it its in the works.
>>71901309
IIRC one of pheonix jones' videos shows him fighting some guy under the laws of mutual combat.
>>71901545
there was some literal cape guy who went around a city fighting criminals. he'd see a crime being committed then ask the perp to mutual combat. he was a cool guy, no idea if he's still alive.
>>71901366
Get in the gym faggot
>>71901366
There were sidekicks known as seconds
The most common characteristic of a duel between gentlemen was the presence of a “second” for both parties. The seconds were gentlemen chosen by the principal participants whose job it was to ensure that the duel was carried out under honorable conditions, on a proper field of honor and with equally deadly weapons. More importantly, it was the seconds (usually good friends of the participating parties) who sought a peaceful resolution to the matter at hand in hopes of preventing bloodshed.
Once the challenge to duel was given, several issues had to be settled before the matter could be resolved. The challenger would first allow his foe the choice of weapons and conditions of the combat, and a time would be set for the event. Seconds were responsible for locating a proper dueling ground, usually a remote area away from witnesses and law enforcement, since dueling remained technically illegal in most states, though rarely prosecuted. Duels were sometimes even fought on sandbars in rivers where the legal jurisdiction of the time was hazy at best.
Honor was not only given for showing up for the duel-proper coolness and courage under fire was also required to uphold one’s reputation. A gentleman was not to show his fear. If he stepped off the mark, his opponent’s second had the right to shoot him on the spot.
![evariste_galois[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8AqqkVe.jpg "evariste_galois[1].jpg")
>>71900426
No, they're retarded and undermine the monopoly on violence of the state. Not to mention that one of the greatest minds to have ever lived was lost because of some duel over fucking nothing.
>Be literal genius
>Solve a mathematical problem deemed unsolvable for 350 years before age 18
>Die in a duel at age 20
>>71901641
grow a foreskin nethero
>>71900426
They are if both parties know their status and their rights.
>>71901269
Not that lethal?
Solid ball of lead that shatters whole limbs
>>71901717
It was his choice to duel dude. That's like saying we should ban alcohol because a genius died of alcoholism at 20. Bullshit argument.
>>71901717
You don't have to accept a duel. Sounds like he wasn't too bright.
I think duals should be a legal form of settling lawsuits. The American man lives on the frontier, frontier justice should be the law of the land.
>>71900426
Sure, as long as the care that is needed when people get injured isn't taken from the ''free'' tax payer funded care.
>>71900426
I wish they'd bring back Trial by combat
(also wager of battle, trial by battle or judicial duel) was a method of Germanic law to settle accusations in the absence of witnesses or a confession in which two parties in dispute fought in single combat; the winner of the fight was proclaimed to be right.
>>71901380
trump will make death races real
No because it would encourage retarded honor killings / feuds.
The average pleb and his family doesn't have the respect / fortitude to stand by the results of a duel, so they'd either duel for all time killing thousands or seek retribution outside of a duel for the results of a prior one in an act of petty vengeance.
But yeah, i hate to get all <current year>, but the primary reason they fell out of fashion was the same reason that war stopped bein a gentleman's sport.
People would cheat the honor code that it depends on.
>>71901977
>duals
I think one gun is enough bruh
>>71901087
clearly he would have to take off his glove first & slap you
>>71900426
No.
Lord Wellington has strict rules against Dueling
>>71902386
So it would encourage familial bonds? Sounds good.
>>71900426
Stand your ground laws can be used to justify dueling. If both people feel that their life is in jeopardy, then they can both justifiably shoot.
>>71900839
Even if you didn't sign a liability contract and went on the rollercoaster the operator couldn't be charged with murder.
>>71902104
>I wish they'd bring back Trial by combat
You know even the Vatican tried to outlaw them because they're fucking retarded, right? Duels, trial by combat etc. exist to settle disputes in regions where civilization is at a low level and the state powerless, where people need to take justice into their own hands.
Modern justice systems exist precisely to prevent that. Oh, and may I also point out that if you support trial by combat but not Islamic honor killings, you're a hypocrite?
>>71902396
It's not CURRENT YEAR as much as it is about institutions. Honor cultures prevail mostly where the state is weak, and with a centralized regime almost always comes a decline of honor culture (in the West at least).
>>71902104
Amongst retards who would kill for petty vengeance.
You really want to settle a fight with some Noonga and spend the rest of your life having to duel his retarded offspring because you won?
>all these pro duel comments
Richard Sharpe fought only two duels in his entire military career.
one ended when the Lord Wellington stopped him and the other ended when he shot a Colonel in the ass
dont duel, there's no honor in it
With the advancement of modern firearms, how will it be ensured that both dueling participants will have a single shot firearm equal to the other in both caliber and make?
What caliber would be suggested to maim and not kill?
>>71902467
I don't care much for your opinion Kari Lehtonen
why bother white people would start losing them and then start losing to other races and then say duels are for savages.
>>71900426
yes
>>71902634
>honour killing
>same as trial by combat
You do know most didn't kill each other right?
Nor were they religious as you pointed out with the Vatican
>>71902688
It's the same thing as Frontier Justice
>>71901458
>implying
>>71902707
Dude, I love Sharpe, but that's no argument against duels.
>>71902713
Maybe have participants use black powder weapons instead?
>>71902774
Whites are by far the best marksmen though.
>anon says something stupid
>"no, you are wrong and here's why..."
>WAT ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL
I wouldn't want to live in a society like this. Duels were forbidden in Europe because nobles were killing themselves for stupid reasons.
>>71902873
>It's the same thing as Frontier Justice
And? Nowhere in the western world can be considered 'frontier.' Even fucknowhere Wyoming has sheriffs, national park officers and three levels of government officials within driving distance to dispense justice so you don't have to rely on 'might makes right' bullshit.
Just say you want to murder people man. You're no better than a jihadist but atleast you're not couching your retarded argument with even more retarded historical precedent that no longer applies to anywhere the western world.
>>71902774
>Nigger takes the field
>Fires his shot sideways
>Miss
>Proceeds to front and bitch about it
>Gets hit directly by opponent with proper form
>>71900426
Legalized duels between immigrants would become a popular sport in most of Europe.
It would reduce their overpopulation problem, it would bring money from TV rights and it would give Islamists a way direct their suicidal madness in a constructive way.
>>71903090
> Generations of dindus now haunt you making your statistically likely demise inevitable.
Great system dude.
>>71903042
Only because people had either thin skin, or just wanted to fight. A duel requires consent from both parties, and there are plenty of examples of men refusing to duel because they just said, "lolno, you pleb" to the challenger.
>>71902489
No, you throw down the glove so they can slap you, thus providing an insult. Otherwise you're the aggressor.
>>71901087
Have local magistrate be equipped with a field and weapons. Anyone wanting to duel has to do so formally through them, and have a cooling off period before their appointment.
>>71903159
Isn't that the system we have now? At least with dueling it's a chance to thin their herd.
>>71902936
>"I say Charles, it was quite the rebuttal I gave that negroid man as he shouted "Ima cap yo ass white boi" with a shot to his kneecap."
>"Fine placement William, his crippled gait will remind him of who was superior that day for years to come"
>"Thank the heavenly Father that we are of white complexion"
>[whiskey glasses clink uproariously]
>>71903052
Why do you got your panties in a knot?
Frontier justice is American as it can get
It's the law of the land
Hell, bounty hunters are still a thing in America
Same for Posse comitatus (aka forming a posse)
Your feelings don't mean shit
Your criminal genes must getting upset
>>71903090
Physics be rayssis n shit
>>71903336
*must be getting upset*
>>71900426
Please yes , so I can kill jews legally
>>71903159
It's not much of a problem since Tyrone doesn't know his dad, so there's no hereditary vengeance.
>>71903336
Because it's a retarded idea you want to enact for stupid reasons. Also Bounties and Posses are enacted by law enforcement, the whole point of 'Frontier Justice' is that there is no law enforcement, hence why arguing from that historical perspective is dumb as fuck. Again, if you just wanted to shoot people i'd have no problem, but you're acting like dueling is a viable alternative or addition to the current justice system is retarded.
Another term for Frontier Justice is Street Justice, aka Nigger Justice, just so you don't continue to romanticize it you're advocating for literal Nigger-tier conflict resolution.
>>71900426
sure, just as long as it's not til the death or some shit.
>>71902892
>Dude, I love Sharpe
i just watched from Rifles to Waterloo, and i cant find a stream or MEGA download for Challenge or Peril.
kind of sad.
> but that's no argument against duels.
you dare defy Wellingtons orders?
>>71903699
Jesus, Aussies are really shitposting hard today
>>71903520
Judea bringing the bantz.
>>71902713
Also, not all duels were fought with pistols. Blades to first or third blood were very common.
Plus, in such cases, a brace is provided to make sure they're equal, which are checked by the participants and seconds.
Ideally, the distributing authority would keep and check weapons for use.
>>71903722
>cant find a stream or MEGA download for Challenge or Peril.
Haven't checked TPB? That's where i found the lot of them. Be sure to check out the books too.
>>71900839
I would be interested to know how Mill would respond to this given his Harm Principle. If you're not familiar, the principle states that you should be able to do whatever you like, so long as it doesn't harm others. On the surface a duel does not harm others, only potentially yourself and the consenting other. But if we look at this deeper, duels can hurt a lot of other people. Family members have to live without the loser of the duel and this will cause them a great deal of distress.
Any ideas?
>>71900426
nothing wrong with it if both parties consent
in fact if they brought back gladiator matches it'd probably solve a lot of gang violence and random killings since all the shitheads who just want to be a notorious murderer can sign up for them
>>71903578
>It's wrong becuse it's stupid
A question begging epithet is your rebuttal?
>if you just wanted to shoot people i'd have no problem, but you're acting like dueling is a viable alternative or addition to the current justice system is retarded.
Why is it retarded?
Because it hurts your feelings?
Not an argument
>Another term for Frontier Justice is Street Justice
Guess you don't know about castle doctrine either
plus there have been cases where people have killed someone in broad daylight and with witnesses around only for it to be dismissed becuse the attacker was in the right
>the 1981 killing of Ken McElroy
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/us/father-not-charged-in-killing-of-man-molesting-his-daughter-5.html?_r=0
Frontier justice is still around
black man shoots someone
>nang dardy it was a duel he said unna
>>71901717
a) he fucked the challengers wife
b) he accepted the duel despite knowing his opponent was an avid dueller and would kill him
>monopoly on violence
Its no matter of the state how its citizens solve their quandries lest they are subjects and not free men.
>>71902104
Trial by combat is retarded and was simply abused for blood feuds.
>>71903950
It's stupid / retarded because you're arguing about Frontier Justice, which was 'enacted' due to there being no stable law enforcement. With both law enforcement and courts being widespread and their rulings effective, there is no need for Frontier Justice.
That is why it's stupid to argue "Frontier Justice" as the reason why it should be enacted.
Also, castle doctrine is entirely different to dueling and something i support, we're also getting away from the main point of Dueling so if you could veer back to that, that'd be great.
>>71900426
>israel
>promotes medieval shit
no surprises here
The last legal duel in Italy was done by one of my relatives.
>>71904167
>It's stupid / retarded because you're arguing about Frontier Justice, which was 'enacted' due to there being no stable law enforcement. With both law enforcement and courts being widespread and their rulings effective, there is no need for Frontier Justice
Indian reservations throw this right out the window
The law enforcement even enables Frontier Justice sometimes
Just becuse your feeling are hurt and you think its stupid doesn't make it go away
>we're also getting away from the main point of Dueling so if you could veer back to that, that'd be great.
You're the one that wanted to argue how America handle its law and get your panties in a knot about it
>>71901382
>actual masked hero
I wonder if there are villains too
Should the challenger choose the mode of combat or the challenged?
I choose bricks.
>>71904377
What feelings? You're arguing that one thing was widespread centuries ago thus this other thing that is tangentially related should now be legal?
Now you're reaching to fucking Indian Reservations, that still have laws and law enforcement, to justify what would be a change for the entirety of your country.
Also, you're the one arguing against American Laws by being in favor of Dueling.
I'm just pointing out that justifying Dueling with "Frontier Justice" is silly because "Frontier Justice" has been replaced by regular Justice for two solid centuries at this point.
>>71904029
>Its no matter of the state how its citizens solve their quandries
Except it is. That's quite literally the only reason why justice systems exist in the first place. Duels and the like were a way to mete out justice without a judicial body to do it for you, like the "frontier justice" some Amerilards here talked about. You couldn't just take your case to a judge at the frontier, you had to take matters into your own hands.
Yes absolutely.
>>71901276
No its not DC it's Washington state that has mutual combat law.
>>71901717
Hello commiekanker.
>>71900426
Yes
>>71904487
The challenged chooses the conditions.
Its usually between a (blackpowder) pistol and (small)sword.
Bricks would be ungentlemanly but if both agree to it and two (identical) ones are found nothing speaks against it.
>>71900426
Only if with bare fists. Guns are fucking retarded and luck based.
>be Aryan god with perfect discipline
>intelligent, strong, beautiful
>get killed by some ugly, tiny, skinnyfat faggot because he was split second faster and aimed millimeter worth more accurately
Also a reason why I'm happy you can't just easily buy and carry weapons in Germany. I don't want some weak subhumans being able to defeat me just like that. No idea why so many people want this. Probably weak subhumans themselves.
>>71901380
"In 2291, in an attempt to control violence among deep space miners the New Earth Government legalized no-holds-barred fighting.
Liandri Mining Corporation, working with the NEG, established a series of leagues and bloody public exhibitions.
The fight's popularity grew with their brutality. Soon, Liandri discovered that the public matches were their most profitable enterprise.
The professional league was formed; a cabal of the most violent and skilled warriors in known space, selected to fight in a Grand Tournament.
Now it is 2341, 50 years have passed since founding of DeathMatch. Profits from the Tournament number in the hundreds of billions.
You have been selected to fight in the professional league by the Liandri Rules Board. Your strength and brutality are legendary.
The time has come to prove you are the best; to crush your enemies; to win the Tournament."
>>71904817
Sauce on that semen demon?
>>71903520
10/10 would sign over my nation's bank to
>>71904817
No wonder your women are being raped in such numbers, you expect them to fist fight with muslim men
>>71904817
>noguns detected
Shooting is quite a bit more sophisticated than you would think.
>>71900426
They are legal
>>71904949
Why are you assuming OP wants them to be?
>>71903807
A strictly utilitarian system would favor duels in cases where it limits violence from escalating into all out war. But only under those circumstances. So in cases of individual honor it would generally condemn it.
>>71904564
>What feelings?
your question begging epithet of course
>I don't like it becuse it is stupid
>Also, you're the one arguing against American Laws by being in favor of Dueling.
Bullshit, nice try with putting words in my mouth
Did you forget you were responding to me about trial by combat? not dueling?
You totally forgot what you were arguing about
>"Frontier Justice" has been replaced by regular Justice for two solid centuries at this point.
Parts of it got absorbed in the American justice system and its is still around
>Open carry
>Concealed carry
>Bounty hunters
>Castle doctrine
>Posse comitatus
>Private militias
Your feeling dont change anything
>>71904720
Bricks are formidable weapons to settle disputes around here
>>71904594
>you had to take matters into your own hands
Which is bad why? Justice must be swift. A centralized judicial system in the hands of lawmakers and bribed judges/juries is slow and ineffective. People should enforce the law locally in whatever way they seem fit.
>>71905008
legalize is a verb
>tfw no jews will duel me, have challenged several
>>71905072
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wc4SZffVoo
>>71904897
That's a retarded argument, though. Most women that get groped or raped don't even have a taser or pepper spray with them, so they're basically asking for it. They could easily prevent getting raped with either, no need for a gun. Not to mention that you must be asking for it when getting raped in Germany anyway. We aren't big, we are dense as fuck and have police and cameras everywhere.
Yes, I use NYE as an argument against immigration myself but here on /pol/ stop pretending you are so concerned about some retarded whores getting groped.
>>71904909
Yeah, no. And I already did shoot as a kid father forced me). Every retard can do it.
Very, very happy that as a tall, intelligent, strong man I actually have some kind of power here in Germany and don't have to expect everyone carries a gun.
>>71904855
Probably somewhere in your country.
>>71905041
This makes sense, but I am more concerned with Mill's Harm principle. I know the principle is based off of utilitarianism as Mill was a staunch utilitarian, but I guess I just fail to see the connection between what you are saying and the harm principle. Could you clarify?
Nice try Mr. Shekelburg
Legalized Duels will result in Shitskins
Daring Whites and thus legalize the killing of Aryans
>>71900426
Not with guns, no. Fistfights? Absolutely.
Men are not equal and should not use an equalizer to determine who is stronger. The very idea of it goes against the whole thing.
"More civilized" my ass.
>>71905130
Ah yes you are right, apologies. How would you say what I have in mind? I suppose, "Should duels have been legalized?" Or something like this.
>>71905204
>Intelligent
I'm not sure how true that is.
>>71904817
>hates the great equalizer
Also nobody forces duels. You can simply swallow your pride like you do Mehmets jizz.
>>71901021
>Often, the participants would meet the field at the appointed time and intentionally throw away their shots so that both gentlemen could preserve their honor and prove themselves to not be a coward.
Except Jackson because he acted like a nigger.
>>71905084
>Which is bad why?
Because a central authority is more fit to deal with it in a neutral and objective matter? Without a central authority, blood feuds arise which aren't exactly a good thing for a civilized society.
>>71905482
>the great equalizer
You know D'Éon was a man, right? A serial crossdresser who was such a good spy, his real gender was only discovered after he had died.
>>71905204
>stop pretending you are so concerned
This thb diggydam famalan.
We are still talking about people that not only encourage but actively support mass immigration and feel bad for their "unintegrated" or culturally "misunderstood" rapists and their sexual emergencies.
>>71905293
Scared of fair fights eh Ahmed?
>>71906369
>We are still talking about people that not only encourage but actively support mass immigration and feel bad for their "unintegrated" or culturally "misunderstood" rapists and their sexual emergencies.
That's true for a lot of women but not all of them. If you think your own women deserve to be raped then what are you even fighting for?
>>71905274
I see what you mean. Well, the harm principle is basically an application of a larger ethical system into a specific rule of thumb; you can deduce the HP from utilitarian philosophy, from natural rights, from Kantianism, and so on. I think Mill specifically forms his HP on utilitarian grounds, as harm is different from aggression and from intentional malice, criminal or otherwise. So in the end I think Mill would be ok with limiting duels.
>>71906223
Of course its to point out that even crossdressing deviants have more of a spine than his pacified ass.
>>71900426
Yes, we need more white people killing each other.
>>71906595
I appreciate the clarification and I agree.
Cheers.
>>71901202
Fite me irl fgt
>>71904238
HOW DARE YOU SIR
>>71907266
*unzips katana*
>>71907293
>>71900426
Fuck no. It's dumb as hell.
Let's put it this way, you bump shoulders with someone by mistake and ask him sorry or hell HE bumps your shoulder and now acts like you did.
Now the airhead thinks his honor suffered a terrible blow and this is worth a life, would you seriously be ok in losing your life because of said airhead or be considered a joke to the rest of your town for all eternity, your sons included?
Come on.
>>71901694
For a more thorough and surprisingly accurate breakdown of what a duel entails, check out "the ten duel commandments" from the Broadway show Hamilton. On mobile, so you'll have to Google it. Great show.
>>71906582
>not all of them
>If you think your own women deserve to be raped then what are you even fighting for?
Oh fuck off you know exactly what I mean.
Nobody deserves to be raped but the future others chose is non of my concern. There is no longer cohesion and Germany is crumbling as a collective of indentityless individuals.
Filth has no tribal alliance.
>>71907622
>ask him sorry
meant tell him you're sorry
>>71900426
Yes.
>>71907622
>>71907899
>all these dubs
KEK has spoken.
