Is there an objective argument against transgenderism? Why dictate what another person does to their body? I think it's not possible to be in favor of freedom in a general sense and also be against transgender people. I'm not transgender, but this seems hypocritical around here. What happened to live and let live and personal liberty?
If you wanna slice your cock off go for it.
Just don't act like you're some sort of hero or that you deserve a full ride scholarship for it.
>>71832148
Yes. Men aren't women. That's the only argument you need. You cannot turn a man into a woman.
> Why dictate what another person does to their body?
Telling kids they should slice themselves up because they don't fit the stereotypes is cruel and harmful.
Telling other people they have to BELIEVE that men are women is oppressive.
If you're an adult you can do what the fuck you want. But don't expect me to call you a woman.
>>71832148
Is there an objective argument *FOR* transgenderism that isn't "m-muh feels"?
>>71832435
And don't ask me to pay for your cosmetic surgery please.
>>71832578
Is there an argument against it that isn't "m-muh degeneracy"?
>>71832148
So why is it that trannies claim they want freedom, but they deny other people the freedom to say men aren't women, or to have women only spaces?
And why do I have to pay via tax for their bullshit cosmetic surgery?
He looks like that Chelsea Perreti.
>>71832716
Because it's a mental illness that needs to be treated, not encouraged nor shunned.
>>71832148
>Is there an objective argument against transgenderism?
No. There is an argument against people demanding certain special rights and privileges based on a mental disorder however. Sagefu
>>71832578
Consent. How can a child have the ability to choose one but not the other
>>71832148
nobody gives a fuck about transgenders, because the only time you see real ones is when you get on the subway, bus or drive under a freeway and see someone wearing a dress with track marks, if they weren't on PCP and meth they might not be transgender, but there only about 0.5% of the population
in the case of this little boy wearing a dress, it's obvious that his dad is doing it because he gets money from liberals who want to use him in photo shoots to show a perfect unicorn transgender
>>71832148
>2016
>still being a lolbertarian
>not realising we need a strong government to fix the degeneracy the left has caused and to kick out the immigrants before we can even think about transitioning to a free society
Human brains become male or female brains. Sometimes, they are genetically to turn into a female brain, but physically are bombarded with extra hormones causing male structures to form in a female brain.
>>71832846
And it's treated by giving them hormones and allowing them to be the gender they mentally are.
>>71833094
> muh pseudoscience
>>71833094
That's one massive load of bullshit right there.
>>71832720
How do they deny that freedom to you? Specifically. There is still free speech. But speech has never been free from consequences. You're conflating the two.
As for taxation, I agree with you. But there is socialised medicine in the West. That's the way it is. Focus on changing that rather than attacking transgender people for taking medical services that they are entitled to in the current system.
>>71833031
Authoritarianism is the strongest weapon of the left. Why yield it now? Authoritarianism means bloated government and higher taxation and as a side effect less liberty and less freedom. You're essentially talking about removing free speech for things you don't like.
>>71833680
> >>71832720 (You)
> How do they deny that freedom to you? Specifically.
"Misgendering" (saying the truth) is illegal in a lot of places or they're trying to make it illegal. Pic related
You can get done for "hate speech" for saying men are not women. Or no-platformed from speaking in public.
> But speech has never been free from consequences. You're conflating the two.
So the Hollywood blacklist was just the glorious free market at work?
And those 1960's Alabama lunch counters, too?
Libs love free speech until they don't.
How the fuck do you think it's acceptable to have a situation where saying the simple truth that biology exists can get you fired?
>>71832148
>DAT BOIPUSSI
>>71833191
>>71833479
>he doesn't know about the brain scans
>>71833952
> he thinks the science hasn't been distorted for tranny-ism
http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/on-russos-is-there-something-unique.html
How the fuck would a brain scan change the definition of male and female, anyway? It wouldn't.
>>71832567
bit ziggy said it was ok
>>71832148
I just don't think kids should be taking hormones and having drastic surgeries that will have permanent consequences on their body.
>>71833154
Should peaple with suicidal thoughts be "treated" by giving them a rope and a gun?
>>71833931
It's an isolated incident, and is it even law yet or simply proposed?
>>71833154
So if a schizophrenic thinks they can read minds everyone else should have to pretend they can? Cause if a tranny says they are a woman our current PC faggot culture requires me to accept it (let them use female washroom, call them her etc...)
Children are not yet done growing up, they should not be steered into an aberrant sexual practice just because of political reasons.
>>71833952
As one who had to go for brainscans due to a brainsurgery when I was little (not cancerous tumor removal), I know a few things, and sure as fuck this brain transformation ain't a legit thing.
Yes
When someone is anorexic because they think they're too fat, we don't tell them to accept they are too fat and eat less, we tell them to get therapy and change their attitudes.
Likewise, when someone is confused about gender or sexual preference, we shouldn't tell them to just go with it, we need to tell them that this is likely due to underlying issues and address those instead of hacking your penis off.
there is literally nothing wrong with an adult choosing to present themselves in a way you don't like
how can you be so conservative but want this legally denied. like the government has a say in how you look and live. pathetic 2bh
>>71834252
How is it not oppressive to demand that other people pretend that a man is a woman?
How is it not oppressive to women to force you way into their space?
What happened to all the rape culture and "you should believe women if they say they are uncomfortable" stuff anyway?
This is what I don't get about you tranny defenders. You want to force other people to play along with delusions. It's not about being left alone, it's about violating other people's rights and space.
>>71832148
Brehs..
>>71833031
>strong government
>stopping degeneracy
>what are cities and the black community
>>71834484
I don't want to do any of that. I'm pro free speech. But I'm against using the state as a weapon to punish people for feelings reasons.
>>71834267
>>71834210
False equivalence
Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness and is in no way comparable to depression or schizophrenia
Hormone treatments have been shown to be highly effective in improving the quality of life for those affected, so yes, it is how you "treat" it.
>>71834464
It's not the government's place to force people to do such a thing, but it's the role of society to enforce morality and truth and science, such as what I said here. >>71834426
>>71833154
>inducing chemical changes in the body to satisfy your feelings
much like a drug addict, trans sufferers need our help.
>>71834766
>Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness and is in no way comparable to depression or schizophrenia
>Hormone treatments have been shown to be highly effective in improving the quality of life for those affected, so yes, it is how you "treat" it.
lies, lies, lies, and more lies.
>>71834766
>Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness
So why are trannies taking hormones and getting surgery?
What the fuck are you doing giving surgery for a mental condition anyway?
>>71834796
>I want to convince le social mass to advocate my beliefs
what are you, some kind of liberal? stop giving a fuck and do what you want. why do you sit online and ponder this shit instead of things that matter? you sounds like a boring person
>>71834766
Yea, tell that to all those people who kill themselves even after transitioning
Honestly I wish Hitler was still alive and the world ruler.
>>71832716
its better not to modify your body
>>71834839
>>71834766
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth
some actual evidence from before today's more PC age
>>71834766
>Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness
>dysphoria is not a mental illness
HAHAHAHHA
I really wish I could tell if you're trolling.
>>71834949
Would you tell your kid it's a good idea to do drugs all day, even if you thought drugs should be legal?
>>71834973
Me too. Its a goddamn shame he didnt kill more jews
>>71834766
If it improves the quality of their lives then why is the suicide rate so high for trannies after they transition?
>>71835014
>Its review warns that the results of many gender reassignment studies are unsound because researchers lost track of more than half of the participants. For example, in a five-year study of 727 post-operative transsexuals published last year, 495 people dropped out for unknown reasons. Dr Hyde said the high drop out rate could reflect high levels of dissatisfaction or even suicide among post-operative transsexuals. He called for the causes of their deaths to be tracked to provide more evidence.
Honest question:
No tranny has lived past age 40.
Why should we care even a little bit about them?
They're all going to kill themselves before they hit retirement, sooner if they mutilate themselves.
So why should we do anything for a group with a 90+% suicide rate?
>>71835014
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
>>71835063
I wouldn't tell my kids to do anything and disapprove of them if they did something I didn't like. literally no one cares what you have to say and it won't affect them
>>71833154
so you're saying we should give pedophiles kids to fuck?
....
>>71832148
The problem is that it's being forced on children and teenagers who haven't cemented their identities yet.
>According to the DSM-V, as many as 98% of gender confused boys and 88% of gender confused girls eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.
Source is page 455 of "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition" by the American Psychiatric Association.
>>71835088
Not to mention all these mental disease enabling trendy leftists would be punished and diseased freaks taken care of
>>71835221
>this treatment will affect literally nobody but yourself
>must be the same as serving children on platter to pedos
read the pinned thread newfag
>there are people who actually think mutilating your body because you're depressed is not only a good idea, but should be celebrated and encouraged in children as young as 4 years old
>>71832148
Transgenderism is the same as cutting up your body to make yourself feel better.
It destroys and warps your body and mind. I don't mind if you dress like a fag or drink moderately, but when you start destroying your own body it becomes a problem for everyone.
>>71832716
Yes, gender is just made up roleplaying nonsense. Gender is a role in the same sense that being a "goth" or a "punk" is a role. What actually changes? The way you dress and behave?
Gender is just a label that people decide to apply to themselves and if they change their mind at any given time we're expected to just take them at their word. The only meaningful and objective distinction we can make between men and women is biological sex based on their genitalia/chromosomes.
Anything else is just make believe.
>>71835326
If we as a society say that transexualism is just as good and normal as regular gender identity, people will be led astray and destroy their lives.
>>71832148
i dont mind if someone wants to dress like a girl or get tits or even mutilate their dick. its weird but not harmful beyond being degenerate.
its when they expect people to pretend that they are actually women that the problems occur, thats a precedent we just cant set where feels overrule objective reality
>>71832148
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY8tx4huoqM&feature=youtu.be
>>71835326
>>this treatment will affect literally nobody but yourself
> """"treatment"""" consists of forcing whole of human society to pretend you're a woman
>>71835479
I can't tell if you're trolling, but do you really think there is no natural, biological basis for our gender idenitity or gender roles?
>>71835479
This is why I feel more people on /pol/ need to read some second wave feminism.
Feminism is not the boogey man.
The radical feminists are the only people who are sane and correct about trannies. That is exactly what the feminists say. Gender is made up bullshit.
>>71834839
>>71834834
>>71834890
>>71834972
>>71835014
>>71835045
>>71835119
>>71835221
The American Psychiatric Association has stated time and time again that Gender Dysphoria is not a mental illness.
>"DSM-5 aims to avoid stigma and ensure clinical care for individuals who see and feel themselves to be a different gender than their assigned gender. It replaces the diagnostic name “gender identity disorder” with “gender dysphoria,” as well as makes other important clarifications in the criteria. It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition"
Also, it is not the gender dysphoria or the surgery that causes the suicide, it is a variety of other factors that afflict non-trans people and influence them to commit suicide as well.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/01/28/3214581/transgender-suicide-attempts/
>>71835722
>le joy division shirt
>>71835605
He isn't saying that.
"Gender" is bullshit. There are sex stereotypes.
Some of those stereotypes might have a basis in statistical fact, but if you don't fit the stereotypes it doesn't mean you aren't your biological sex.
>>71835722
no. feminism was the start of this and its all your fault anglo scum
>oh we can tell a little lie, life will be better if we pretend something nice is true
the problem is your little lie that women are equal to men has snowballed into utter madness and it will not end until you cut it the fuck out
there is truth and fantasy, get it fucking straight anglo shithead
>>71832148
I'm not against it, but nobody should be able to do any of that until they are at least 16
>>71835731
So WHY DO THEY NEED MEDICAL TREATMENT IF IT ISN'T A MEDICAL CONDITION?
> Being a tranny isn't a mental illness
It's a perfectly normal condition where people have to get everyone to pretend they're the opposite sex and get hormones and take surgery otherwise they'll kill themselves, right?
>>71835832
This.
>>71835722
>Gender is made up bullshit.
>>71834085
>brain scans change definitions
>instead of see which definition the brain is
>>71834389
>transformation
>I know this cause i got a brainscan once
Have you read the actual academic research papers?
>>71832148
>your genetics dont change. you are still and XX or XY even when changing your gender
>You don't cut off your arm because you feel like one armed and dont want two
>when your brain and body "dont agree", it's your brain that we treat for everything else
>it normalizes it and encourages it in others
>>71835731
>believing ThinkProgress or the medical establishment
do you have any idea how political correctness works?
>>71835930
>medical condition
Nice job moving the goalpost.
>muh gender switch
>muh identification as shapeshifting sociopath
Your chromosomes define what you are.
>>71835881
The old school feminists don't (generally) say women are exactly equal to men. They do want equal rights and treatment which is fair enough.
They are often female separatists. They want to live in lesbian communes and eat carpet and hate on men. I say that's fair enough.
The important thing is that right now the old school feminists are the ONLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD who have a sane view about trannies. The liberals support tranny-ism. The Christian conservatives don't, but they have insane, fucked up views about sex stereotypes and gay people.
So radical feminism is important, right now.
>>71835832
Ok but you also shouldn't just throw them all out because they are "stereotypes". Normally they develop naturally due to human preferences over many centuries, to simply just throw them out because of some Jewish book you read is folly. This is why Plato wanted to kill the poets.
>>71836098
we cant give an inch, gas the dykes sex war now
>>71836029
>>instead of see which definition the brain is
The brain is just the brain. It's another part of your body.
Your sex does not depend on anything about your brain. Barring intersex conditions, it's simply about your genitalia.
>>71834766
>my brain disagrees with my body therefor my body is wrong!
>>71836098
>So radical feminism is important, right now.
women already achieved equality, now feminism is about "breaking down the patriarchy" by ruthless criticism of everything "heteronormative". It's Mao's Red Guards all over again.
I don't have a problem with it. You can pretend to be something you'll never be genetically. But I do have a problem with infringing on other people's rights and making them uncomfortable to cater to someone who pretending to be something they aren't. I think that there should be a third restroom facility in public spaces that's gender nuetral, and this should be paid for by tax of people who are transgender.
>>71836151
Who says we need to throw anything out?
Just note that stereotypes are just that, stereotypes. You can use them to make statistical predictions, but you can't say someone who doesn't fit the stereotypes must really be a woman. That would but nuts, but it's what liberals, trannies and conservatives all believe.
>>71836202
You have to remember this is all pseudoscience.
These brains scans don't show anything like that. Actually, they're really picking up the fact most younger trannies are gay.
>>71835605
>biological basis for our gender idenitity or gender roles
No, what I'm saying is that bringing "identity" and "roles" into the discussion distorts the reality of the sexes being biologically programmed to function, feel, and behave in certain ways. There are outliers of course.
>>71836305
>think that there should be a third restroom facility in public spaces that's gender nuetral, and this should be paid for by tax of people who are transgender.
the population of actual trans people is about 1 in 5000 so that's a lot of taxing for those people and huge burden on businesses for a few individuals.
>>71832148
I'm as libertarian as they come in regards to social issues, but I still don't think letting mentally ill people do whatever they want to themselves is OK.
We don't let crazy people dig into their own body to remove the UFO tracking device either, nor do we let people amputate themselves just because they feel they would be happier without legs. The same logic we use to justify restricting those people applies to transgender people.
>>71835930
>"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons."
>>71836059
>believing in facts and statistics
Yeah man, who cares about that? Fuck science, now if you excuse me I have a meeting with the Flat Earth Society in 10 minutes.
>>71835603
literally nowhere does it say you have to pretend anything. you can tell yourself trannies are still men just like you tell yourself niggers aren't people. you freaking out just shows how insecure and afraid you are which is incredibly pathetic over a literal nonissue
>>71836455
>Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder.
then why do they undoubtedly have higher levels of suicide, depression etc? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth like a PC cuck.
>>71836304
The problem is you don't understand what radical feminism is. You don't know second wave, third wave, fourth wave. You think it's all just "hating men". The problem is you're missing where feminists called bullshit on trannies decades before anyone else did. All the good thinking on how much crap transgender is comes from feminists. you need to read it.
>>71836184
Your brain controls your hormones...
>>71836029
I had many scans for years, guess what my brain didn't start morphing into a female brain like it's molded clay, are you this retarded? It doesn't take a doctor or a scientist to figure it out.
>>71834766
>highly effective
And yet some absurd % of post op end up killing themselves.
>it's because of society!
That doesn't explain SIXTY suicide or attempted suicide rate.
If one day the medical science catches up to transgender, then so be it.
As for now, you have individuals who are unhappy because who they are on the outside does not reflect who they are on the inside.
Even if they manage to do the therapy, the hormones, and the surgery, they are still not a woman. They are an imperfect abomination. They have to dilate their vagina or it collapses, they have to self lube, they have to keep a rod in it or the body attempts to kill it like a wound. Does that sound good enough to you?
They also can't have kids.
>but what about infertile women!
Yeah, they have a disease. If you have a mental illness, you're idea of fixing them is to put them in a body that is out of the box defective? That's a good idea to you?
We should just be counseling these people into finding what happiness they can with who they are and when the medical science catches up then go for it.
And as for kids. You seriously need to fuck off. Children are highly impressionable and can't consent to this level of a permanent life choice.
>>71836526
because those are regular losers who dress up like women for attention then wake up one day wondering what the fuck happened to them
>>71836455
>A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability.
And the state of claiming you're the opposite sex certainly causes them distress. It isn't a mental disorder because of...?
And why do they need treatment if it isn't a disorder?
>>71836542
>The problem is you don't understand what radical feminism is. You don't know second wave, third wave, fourth wave. You think it's all just "hating men". The problem is you're missing where feminists called bullshit on trannies decades before anyone else did. All the good thinking on how much crap transgender is comes from feminists. you need to read it.
faggot I spent almost ten years in college I know this shit better than you; I also know they absolutely mangled the teaching of Foucault, Regardless of the "variety of feminist thought" it all is transmitted to the mainstream culture the same way, as Red Guard-style attacks on the foundations of western society, of which masculinity is perhaps the most important.
>>71836405
They're the ones pretending...let them pay for it. If they don't want to people born men piss in the men's room and people born women do it there.
>>71836455
>Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling
And yet they kill themselves en mass and are almost always depressed. Get the fuck out.
>>71832716
But it IS degenerate.
>>71836022
There's a difference between sex and gender. Gender is the socially conditioned display of binary sex. Girls are 'pink', wear skirts, have long hair, wear makeup, play with dolls while boys are 'blue', wear jeans (of course this changed to be both recently), play with trucks, have short hair, you get the idea. Is it scientific to say that boys must not wear skirts and must not play with dolls? Of course not, it's made up bullshit. A social construct (and don't fucking give into the bullshit of thinking that saying something is a social construct = saying something isn't real).
>>71836542
radical feminism is literally just lesbian pick up artists that hate anything with a penis if you actually saw some semblance of intelligence and took their thoughts seriously you are the biggest cuck alive
>>71832148
Gender is, in part, biological and another part is social. Why more men are engineers and more women nurses has a part in our structures and society.
Gender expression can be very social, e.g. what we define as male and female changes. A French Aristocrat of the 18th century would look very femine to us. Colours and clothes change over time.
Feminists argue that gender is completely social. Even that our roles are defined socially and not by our biology. This is incorrect. Mothers are closer to babies for a reason than men.
How does a young man who wants to wear dresses constitute someone who should change sex? If gender expression is indeed flexible then how does it constitute sex? Wearing dresses, liking pink would not make you a girl (and many feminists would also argue this).
So how does someone who has not been through puberty and likes playing with female toys become a girl? Through their parents and society saying they should.
Go and watch Louis Theroux's transgender kids. What this will show you is - parents stating "it was my kid who did it" yet they are the one pushing them.
Before you go through puberty, how can you know you are in the wrong body? Even during puberty things are changing and hormones are raging, how can you know?
How does wearing girl clothes = being a girl if gender is a social construct (like they all argue).
It just doesn't make any sense apart from a society pusing it.
>>71836751
I agree, but that's not what the culture is pushing; they are pushing allowing kids to identify as different genders and even doing sex reassignment surgery before most of these kids even know what sex is. This is dangerous and immoral.
>>71834426
False equivalence. The transgender person wants to be the other sex, they are in fact not the other sex. Anorexics wish to be skinny, they are skinny but continue to think that they are fat.
>>71836824
>Is it scientific to say that boys must not wear skirts and must not play with dolls? Of course not, it's made up bullshit.
No, it's not. Male identity, society, etc depends on strong masculine character and you don't get that by playing with dolls.
>>71832148
they can do what ever they want to their body but they are not changing their gender.
at best you label them as some half step between but their chromosomes didnt change so they are still either a man or woman
they should also be required to have that fact on their drivers license which would have the gender they were born as not identify as listed.
assuming they can confuse any one it might cause more problems if a religious person dated one of them
>>71834484
Strawman.
>>71836542
>feminists called bullshit on trannies decades before anyone else did
People have recognized trannies as mentally ill for millennia. Tranny acceptance is a modern phenomenon.
>b-but Elagabalus was a tranny
fuck off
>>71836644
Wow. You are retarded.
Brain scans dont' change a brain. Wow.
Just...
Wow.
When will people learn to stop replying to straya bait?
>>71837076
lmfao
What constitutes a masculine identity is socially constructed you dunk, that's the whole point
>>71837037
>trannies
delusional belief they are a different sex
>anorexics
delusional belief they are too fat
two delusions
two different treatment by PC medical establishment. Stand up for truth and reason; examine the evidence fairly and you'll see transgenderism is a sick fad and should not be given the status of scientific fact.
>>71837249
when you post more nazi qts
>>71837271
Unless you want to argue that playing with dolls is scientifically emmasculate, that is
>>71837271
>masculine identity is socially constructed
no it's not
A male lion fights, dominates, fucks and doesn't give two fucks. That's because lions require strong males in order to hold their society together and ensure their prosperity. That's biological imperitve.
If we have a nation of weak men who can't fight and play with dolls, we won't even have a nation. Our nation would never have been created without those masculine attributes.
>>71837193
That's not even remotely what I refered to you dumbfuck. My scans didn''t show this magical morphing garbage you babbled about, didn't say nothing about the scan itself doing it. Do you even know how genetics and chromosomes work? Clearly you don't.
>>71836455
>significant
pretty subjective of you
>>71836863
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70
I would argue the biological affects the societal in ways a lot of people aren't willing to admit. it goes against the modern day narrative.
>>71836863
>Penis=Male
>Vagina=Female
These are plain, scientific facts. Anything else is stems wholly from a psychological disorder.
>"I'm a woman on the inside, but I have male genitalia" :: "The grass is green, but I feel like it's purple"
Delusional. Degenerate.
>>71837410
Establishing a hierarchy through brute strength is not the equivalent to saying that playing with dolls is feminine whereas playing with action figures is masculine
>>71832148
It's cruel and inhumane to impose mental illness on people or tell them their existing mental illness is okay. Telling a boy that "yes you really are a girl in a man's body" is like telling a schizophrenic that "yes those voices are real."
It's also a financial waste. We have medical professionals in useless occupations catering to surgical alterations and transitioning who are essentially not creating any benefit for the nation. Even if they just picked up litter on the highway we'd be better off.
>>71837500
>I would argue the biological affects the societal in ways a lot of people aren't willing to admit. it goes against the modern day narrative.
Same. Hence why gender is in part biology. But most feminists/left won't agree with this.
>>71837513
Exactly. But the point I was making was more about the interpretation of gender.
Gender does not equal sex. Yet these people think that by having a femine gender expression they must equal a woman.
Their ideology doesn't make sense.
>>71832148
Is there an objective argument against schizophrenia?
Against PTSD?
Bipolar disorder?
Psychosis?
Anorexia?
>>71834890
If it is a mental illness, then your NHS is obliged to pay for their treatments, which would include therapy, hormone replacement therapy, sex reassignment surgery, and facial feminization surgery etc. On the other hand, if it is not a mental illness then there can be nothing stopping them from making themselves more feminine or appear female.
>>71837626
dolls allow people to pretend they are pretty
action figures allow people to pretend they are powerful
did you never play with toys as a kid wtf?
>>71834492
I wish I was big enough to wreck that boypussy.
Just choke the little cunt while you fuck it with its legs over your shoulders.
Looking at that bitchy face squirm and that flaccid little dick bounce around as you pound that hole of peace right below it.
And for the record, let's clear up what we mean by degenerate. To me, it's going against well-proven history, tradition and scientific fact, or what the Greeks or Romans would call a loss of virtue. A good example is the modern "family". Talk to a liberal and they will hardly agree that having two parents, preferably male and female, is better than one. But we know that people raised by single parents have worse outcomes in life. The breakdown of the family is a degenerate act. We've gotten away from what works, what is right and proven and adopted our own special snowflake version of reality just to appease certain groups.
>>71832148
I got no problem with the people that genuinely come up genderqueer and I don't think they should be mistreated for it.
I'm also not at all comfortable with this idea that the schools and the media need to try to program us for it day in and day out. We're being subjected to a public relations campaign to convince us, not just to leave the few that are born this way unmolested, but to actively celebrate them and emulate them as role models.
That's a step too far. Most people aren't born trans or gay or anything but just easy, and they'll become what society wants them to be. What's the rationale for convincing them to go queer?
It's a bridge too far. And honestly it's not about the queers. It's about identity politics. Identity politics is a poison that contaminates anything it touches.
>>71836911
I agree with you and it's definitely immoral. Considering the suicide rate of transgender people it's doing a great disservice to tell a little boy before he even know what it means to be a boy it's okay to want to be a little girl instead. I grew up playing sports in the yard with my dad, listening to rock music, watching ghostbusters and ninja turtles, playing video games and watching football. I couldn't be happier for it.
My point is once a tranny is a tranny, their life choices are not my responsibility and I shouldn't be inconvenienced to make them comfortable in society.
>>71837747
Saying that dolls are supposed to be pretty and action figures are powerful is a social construct
>>71837836
please explain more what you'd do for reasons...
>>71834766
>gender dysphoria is not a mental illness
How is it anything other than the definition of a mental illness? If someone who's a biological male in their mind doesn't think they're a male, their mind is wrong, fucked, sick
>>71837884
My thoughts on it summed up pretty much. I really don't care what you do to your own body, but this media circlejerk is severely annoying.
>>71837938
only insofar as everything is a social construct, what you are saying is meaningless.
>>71832148
Im a trap and see it like this,
you really should just become a trap/transgirl ,take hrt for some boobies and to get more feminien and actually keep your cock, and not mutiliate it for an unfunctional pseudo vagina just to look closer to a girl wich you will never be anyway.
There is really no point in doing this surgery,its risky as fuck,its basicly mutiliation as you just have an inversed cock in the end,its expensive and it wont be a real vagina anyway.
Also keeping the cock is was makes traps interesting, people go for transgirls/traps cause chick with dick, if you have just a half functional pussy guys can just go for a real pussy.
>>71835731
Explain to me why Psychology is an ARTS degree, not a science degree.
>hint
It ain't because everything they say is definitively provable.
Trump voter here, if you can successfully created the illusion of being an attractive female, then more power to you! Some of these traps are better looking than most of the screw oxes I've been with lately!
>>71835119
The suicide rate is probaly higher if they dont transition but its pretty hard to measure that.
>>71837938
>a social construct
this is a vague term taught by 30 year old TAs in mediocre universities; it is vague as fuck and can therefore be used to describe virtually anything you don't like.
>>71832148
>Why dictate what another person does to their body?
In accordance of this logic, if anyone want to kill yourself we can't forbid it.
> think it's not possible to be in favor of freedom in a general sense
It isn't freedom, it's degeneracy and mental illness.
When someone has schizophrenia, we put him in a loony bin.
The same we should do if someone has a gender identity disorder, shouldn't we?
>>71838240
post pics
>>71838430
schizophrenics live among us and their condition is easily controlled by dopamine limiting medication. you literally would have no way of knowing your coworker is a schizo unless they got off their meds. nice try
>>71838430
Killing yourself ends your life, removing treatment options. For some reason, you seem to believe the treatment for depression is killing yourself and not actual psychiatric help.
In that thinking, the treatment for Gender dysmorphia is hormone treatment / surgery which, and I'll be the first to admit, is theoretically beneficial. More studies need to be done, and they will be done, as the mental illness becomes more socially acceptable.
Also, we don't 'put someone in the loony bin' unless they are untreatable and violent to themselves or others. Schizophrenia is treated with medication and psychoanalytic therapy.
I don't care what people do to themselves. I just feel like those people should be informed of the negative problems that taking hormones can have on their body. And also I feel like they should have a thorough mental evaluation to make sure they are not mentally ill. Not just be told they should have SRS like there is nowadays.
>>71838501
>easily controlled
> you literally would have no way of knowing your coworker is a schizo unless they got off their meds
Not even fucking close.
>>71837451
Your brain doesn't keep morphing like it would when you're in the womb.
Like, wow. Are retarded are you hungarians?
>>71838808
Schizophrenia is a decently manageable decease if you catch it early. You would probably know, because the said person would more than likely be open about it. But early on the schizophrenics don't have delusions yet, only hallucinations.
>>71838808
my fiancee is literally schizophrenic who the fuck are you mate
>>71838501
Schizophrenia is not easily controlled. I work with mental patients; it's a hassle to find what medications work best with them, and what dosage works best. Schizophrenia is more well known and understood, but it is definitely not easily controlled for a lot of the people struggling with the disease.
>>71838416
It's only vague if you don't know what the word means. Something being socially constructed = society gave it its meaning
>>71838240
What I'm reading is "I don't really wanna be a girl, I'm just gay and I want to be what boys like."
>>71839003
>>71839003
I'm sorry to hear that. But to indulge my curiosity, what are the nature of her delusions / hallucinations.
>>71839125
My understanding is that, if caught early, it's a whole lot more easy to treat. What exactly is your profession anyway, I've always been interested in the mentally ill.
>>71838922
You literally said the male changes into a female brain are you literally contradicting yourself now? Also english, learn it better.
>>71839392
In the womb...
>>71839372
she acts eccentric and can't pick up on most social cues. has had hallucinations of spiders everywhere once in the past 2 years but that was early on shortly after began medication. nothing since
Guys shut the fuck up about "is a social construct" arguments. Social constructs exist because they are necessary for a thriving, healthy society. To say something is a "social construct" is akin to saying "its what is healthy for us."
>>71832148
Phenomenally higher suicide rates.
Hormone treatment causes mental instability.
>>71839491
in saudi arabia it's socially constructed to kill your sister for getting raped
>>71839546
And it solves the guys raping their sisters problem.
>>71838501
>Easily controlled
You really don't know shit.
>>71838685
It's a mental disorder. When you mutilate yourself because your brain can't comprehend your sex it's a psychiatric issue. Hormone "treatment" will just fuck them up further down the line. Suicide is high amongst them because the issue isn't their physical biology.
I'm fine with transgenders. But I don't want to pay for surgery for them when a bullet to the brain works just as fine with their suicide rates. Or treat them according to their delusions. That isn't going to help them.
Trannies who cut their dicks off are scum. There's absolutely no use for a qt Futa fuccboi if she doesn't have a dick.
>>71839630
I live with a schizo get buttblasted
http://www.strawpoll.me/10027468/
tranny here? should i just kill myself?
>>71839697
how ugly?
>>71839477
>Human brains become male or female brains. Sometimes, they are genetically to turn into a female brain, but physically are bombarded with extra hormones causing male structures to form in a female brain.
No mentioning of a womb here, at least learn basic sentence structure.
It is a mental illness. It is a disconnect between what a person perceives in their head and the reality of the physical world that the rest of us live in.
I could identify as the second coming of Christ, that doesn't make it true.
>>71832148
>Hurr Durr Freedumbz
>Gender is a choice
>Gender is a social construct
>Therefore I will mutilate myself to conform to a social construct
Fucks suck you stupid shitposting shit cunt. If you're a fucking transgender you're a mental retard with fucked up useless shit for brains.
Transgenders need fucking mental help not fucking tax payer funded surgery to lop their dicks off.
>>71838430
>In accordance of this logic, if anyone want to kill yourself we can't forbid it.
Thats right. I don't usually recommend it but it's always your right.
>>71839491
No, it's not.
Social constructs are products of social evolution, so it's not normal for them to persist long if they are not adaptive *in some way* but they are certainly NOT somehow always guaranteed to be good for us. Don't be naive.
>>71839546
Sort of. The main social constructs involved there ais the concept of family honor. To change this behavior you have to change that, and since it's also deeply rooted in Arab notions of gender, you probably can't do it without changing those notions at least slightly as well.
>>71839800
You have extremely poor reading comprehension or you can't link the idea of hormones entering a brain with a still developing brain in the womb. This is why Hungary will always be a failed State; Hungary is full of fucking idiots.
>>71838685
>as the mental illness becomes more socially acceptable.
>illness
>socialy acceptable
What wrong with you, nigger?
We should cure ill people, not "accept" them, shouldn't we?
For example, if you have no right leg it doesn't mean that we should "accept" you neither cut off another one nor cut off our legs. We should help you, give you mechanical leg or something.
>>71838501
>schizophrenics live among us and their condition
It doesn't mean that they are healthy. Still they are ill and need help.
It is harmful to both society and people who go trough it.
1. It is hard as fuck to diagnose properly this shit especially in the age of special snowflakes when kids are more than happy to explain any form of sexual confusion with gender dysphoria.
2. Both HRT and, duh, surgery lead to permanent damage that will scar a misdiagnosed person for life
3. Even when diagnosed right, very few people can actually pull the whole female look off, and having mangled genitals in your pants does not make things easier. It leads to extreme depression and suicides a.k.a. the very fucking opposite of what people expect from a "treatment"
4. Balding man in a wig will always stay balding man in a wig. No amount of hormones will save majority of transgender people from social pressure
Being gay is not a sickness because a gay person can find another gay person and be happy.
Trannies will never become the gender they crave and therefore affirming their delusions is as stupid as letting kleptomaniacs to steal.
It's a mental illness which we allow people to mutilate themselves over.
>>71832148
Daily reminder that the girl in the pic is the boy's sister and not him after turning trans.
>>71839682
My sister is schizophrenic kill yourself. Not a single day is it easy. It deteriorates her mental state. Had to go through middle school with it. Doing better now but still likely to relapse.
Medications work but not 100%. You can't say shit about this disorder. It gets progressively worse. No treatment is 100% effective. Even your housemate can fall to this when the meds don't work anymore.
>>71834766
>Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness
>>71840098
There was no context of an embryo in the sentence let alone in the whole thread, for all I know you were talking about the hormone therapies and medical injections trannies take. Just because you think it and don't refer to it, others can't know the context.
>>71840110
>It doesn't mean that they are healthy. Still they are ill and need help.
them living among us without distinction is due to them being medicated and getting help
>>71840279
>muh anecdote
feel bad for you but also go fuck yourself
I don't care if you want to mutilate your dong. I don't care if you want to pretend you're a woman.
Just don't expect everyone else to agree with you, don't force it on children, and don't expect the laws in the real world to reflect your imagination.
Men, be sure to piss all over targets seats in the woman's bathrooms. ;)
Because you can't your fucking gender. If you are born with XY and want to become XX, you fucking can't! You will just be a man with a cut off dick and will kill yourself.
>>71834766
>Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness
>>71840378
>talking about hormone therapy and injections
I never said anything about that. I'd love you to quote me on it.
>>71840116
Being gay is probably a genetic defect. Or the result of your environment. But at least you aren't trying to get special snowflake status. And have everyone deal with your delusion. It most likely fades out. If it truely is genetics.
>>71840560
women can be born with XY and give birth to XY daughters
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/
>>71840591
it's a physical illness
>>71832148
No one cares what they do with their bodies. It's only when the faggots come crawling to us, telling us we have to play along with them.
>Don't wanna serve trannys in a business, I happen to own
>lawsuit
>tranny fags expect us to see them as 'just another person'
>you're not
>tranny fags want to change bathroom laws, and any other gender specific thing to fit them in
>fuck off
Yes, live and let live. You chose to cut your dick off, and most of think you're a freak for it. Your choice, deal with it.
>>71840695
>government telling you to serve people
this literally only affects interstate businesses which I doubt you own
>>71840667
nigga you dumb
>>71840784
You'd be wholly incorrect.
>>71840615
>bombarded with extra hormones
never said it that therapy and injections were mentioned, again you are simply just nitpicking to cover up your poor phrasing skills.
trans fag here, there are two types of trans
1. the ones who successfully adopt a woman's life
2. the ones who are fucking just tranny's and just bitch and cry on tumblr
>>71840843
>the body doesn't match the brain
>>71840847
then prove me wrong faggot I have a texas business
>>71840959
>extra
Never said that word. Hormone therapy doesn't inject extra hormones. It simply changes the make up. Having extra hormones is a bad thing. No doctor would do that to their patient.
Try learning to increase your reading comprehension.
>>71840616
One may say that having disconnected earlobes is a "defect". Unavoidable discomfort and unhappiness are essential factors for a condition to be considered an illness and gay people in modern society are doing pretty fucking well to be called "sick".
>>71840981
>being gay isn't special enough, i'll be a faggot instead
>being a faggot isn't special enough, i'll be a crossdresser
>being a crossdresser isn't special enough, I'll be a tranny
>being a tranny isn't special enough, it's a condition NOT an illness, shitlords
don't forget to kill yourself before hitting 33
>>71840981
return2reddit, faggot. nobody here tolerates tranny broken faggots' bullshit
>>71840379
>gives example of person who goes through schizophrenia everyday for years
>explains how schizophrenia isn't easily treatable even if caught early
>muh ancedote
Good luck with your house mate. Just keep track. It can happen in the blink of an eye.
>Ps go fuck yourself as well.
>>71841298
good luck with your sister I'll be married to a schizo so if you're lucky I'll die anyway
They can do whatever the fuck they want, but not on the government's (and subseqently, my) dime. Same thing with abortion. Kill your baby if you want, but you're not commiting murder using my money. The issue isn't preventing people from having freedom, it's that their freedoms infringe on mine and that's not alright.
>>71841096
scroll up it's your fucking post, whatever, I'm bored of your retardation
Trannies are fucking crazy. They're even making dildos and strapons for four-year-old girls.
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/babys-first-dildo-courtesy-of-the-transgender-movement/
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/kids/more-than-just-undies-the-smallest-details-are-the-most-important-for-parents-of-transgender-kids/news-story/81888cf28a83626af1ac47668c187d3e
Gas them all.
>>71841095
Yes, I'll put my companies data on /pol/ to prove it to an autist.
>>71841479
literally all you have to do is post your state and the law that says so. get fucked I bet your '''business''' is selling cupcakes out of your garage and designing dragon dildos on etsy
>>71832148
Guys we should support the trannies. I'm a closet reptillian and I've been waiting for the tranny crisis to be resolved. After trannies are accepted, incest is widely accepted, pedophillia becomes legalized, and furries get legalized marriage to their pets, me and my fellow reptillians will come out and demand equal treatment next. Being human is altogether overrated and I'm tired of being held back by your stereotypes. I can't wait to get that new cosmetic green-skin-scale surgery. :^)
>>71840981
>The brain is the problem.
>Blames body.
>Trannies deserve to have their mental disorders indulged and funded by everybody else
This fucking shit was only possible because faggots said their fucked up preferences should be indulged rather than stamped out.
Well good work egalitarians, this is what you get, no "disabled" condition too special to be elevated, no privilege however well earned can't be put down.
>>71835160
Excellent point. I have a second cousin who is a FtM transgender. He got the surgery in his 30s and is completely passable as a dude (other than tiny hands and feet), but is still completely suicidal since he still feels that something inside him is fucked up. The gender thing is just an excuse they come up with to try and explain their mental illness.
>>71841418
It's a 4 year old, what would it do with a strapon/dildo? Masturbate? Have sex? Why was this allowed to be concieved let alone prdouced?
>>71832148
ITT: White cucks complaining about members of their own race while other races destroy the white race.
>>71840379
>them living among us without distinction is due to them being medicated and getting help
Then, why we should accept mental illness without all this thing?
You guys just refused to help this people when you're saying them that the mental illness isn't mental illness.
>>71839993
>Thats right. I don't usually recommend it but it's always your right.
Not quiet so.
Mentally healthy man can't kill yourself. And mentally ill man can't be responsible for their actions. Then, first we must heal this man and... after the treatment he don't want to kill yourself.
The same is true about all mental illness, including gender disphoria.
In other words, you can't change your sex/kill yourself because it is degeneracy. When you are a degenerate you can't be responsible for your actions.
...
I think, it is obvious.
>>71841592
Indeed, sir, indeed. No girlfriend I take it?
>>71839491
SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS ARE A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT!
>>71832148
Doctors shouldn't be treating a mental disorder with medication/procedures that have a physical result.
>>71841276
>trannies are the same as gays
Gay people don't dress up as the opposite gender to get off. You can be a straight cross dresser.
>>71841390
>scroll up
THE MADMAN
>>71841603
>body's the problem
>blames the brain
>>71842044
Society is a gendered construct.
Mental institution for all the trannies.
Besides, they're 20 times more likely to kill themselves than the normal human being because of the decisions they made.
>>71841110
Being gay has no reproductive benefits. The basic human goal is to continue furthering their species. Being gay doesn't help that.
There's nothing wrong with being gay or whatever you triggered Tumblrina. But biologically you would have been bred out. Being a productive member in society is all that matters nowadays.
They are a defect not comparable to ears or just simple cosmetic defects.
Do transgender threads get such a big push on 4chan because most of the users here are psychologically and mentally disturbed and more pliable when it comes to being convinced to transition from male to female?
Free societies don't work. You must have 1 rule- be good, or be killed.
>think
>work
>be loyal
>marry young and stay married your entire life
>no gays, no weird sex, no jews
If you do something bad, a chip inside your head directs you to a booth, you enter it and are vaporized. The entire world with respect to human activity would be fixed in less than a year, and we can begin exploring space.
>>71842421
the aristocracy would never chip themselves so nothing would change except a bunch of slave labor that could be acheived much easier with robots
>>71841972
if you weren't autist you'd see the other 5 posts where I say my fiancee is a schizophrenic. nice pretend business you own
>>71841418
Holy fuck. Actually ban those fucks from coming near any child. God what the fuck is wrong with people.
>>71841931
they are getting help you delusional russian
>>71841931
Mental illness is just a rationalization to allow aggression against those that think differently.
>>71842342
>Being gay has no reproductive benefits. The basic human goal is to continue furthering their species. Being gay doesn't help that.
>There's nothing wrong with being gay or whatever you triggered Tumblrina. But biologically you would have been bred out.
If there were no biological benefit then it would indeed have been 'bred out' yet it has not.
How do you explain that?
>>71842667
Of course, and all those people in the loony bin are just misunderstood innocent people, don't mind Bob the cannibal or Steve who hears voices. Those guys just think differently.
>>71842667
>think differently
Well then its not aggression its just "thinking differently" ;^)
>>71842342
By your definition any person who refuses to have kids should be considered mentally ill. More so than a gay person since a gay person can just use a surrogate mother.
>>71842827
Bob the cannibal should be in prison or in a box in the ground.
And Steve who hears voices certainly doesn't need to be incarcerated with Bob. Doh.
>>71842559
wealthy people will get culled when the great revolts start happening.
>>71842823
>If it has no biological benefit
Its a defect, a disease just like some babies are born maligned by freaks of chance so too are some people born with homosexual tendencies/partialities
>>71842823
the major failing of people who dont like science when they attempt to use it is that they misunderstand basic things
darwins version of evolution is out dated and has been for decades.
chaos theory reigns supreme. traits dont have to serve any useful function they can simply be dominate not recessive
while it may sound crazy maybe your a fag gene carrier and you dont even know it
>>71843040
nice wet dream pablo pipooro
>>71839337
I know what it means, I think it has no objective values.
>>71832148
I'd fuck either of them
>>71842946
You get my point, many mentally ill people can have homicidal tendecies.
>>71843182
>>>/taliban/
>>71832148
I'm not exactly against it but completely against our taxes and health insurance premiums going towards paying for elective and unnecessary surgeries for these mentally unbalanced people.
It's degenerate as hell and people can never change their birth gender. But it's their body. Just don't push that lifestyle on me or demand to be covered by taxpayer money to enhance your illness.
Plus in the OP pic I think that boy was too young to decide to become a "girl." People should be more mentally developed before making such decisions.
>>71832148
>Why dictate what another person does to their body?
So suicide shouldn't be seen as bad thing, after all one is just killing once body.
>>71832148
Can these people procreate?
>>71841418
>>71841834
Anybody getting a Brave New World vibe from this? Reminds me in the beginning of the book where 5 year olds were basically fucking each other.
>>71843174
Things which are clear benefits obviously will better allow that particular to survive more easily and thus is more likely to be passed on. There are random mutations which are sometimes just bizarre and pointless of course, but so long as they don't impede survival or procreation they aren't real setbacks. Traits can vary in value according to the size of groups and environment as well, appearing seemingly sporadically but in a statistically normal fashion.
Stop being an edgy teen.
>>71842823
As stated before it might be the result of your environment. It might not just be genetics.
But now we have sperm banks and surrogates. Making it easier for them to breed.
As well as people who pretend to be straight to maintain an image.
What natural benefit is there to being gay?
You can't breed with the same gender. You kill your line. If not for all modern advances gays would be even more sparse. Genetic defects are still in our DNA they just aren't expressed. Like sickle cell. When two people with this defect create off spring there is a 1/4th chance for it to be expressed.
G g
G GG Gg
g Gg gg
Little g being the defect.
>>71842421
It's happening on /b/. Endless trap threads as far as the eye can see. It's an effort to "normalize" it. The thing that saves /pol/ is the moderation that prohibits pornography. This is one of the rare occasions where I actually praise the mods.
>>71840981
>The body doesn't match the psychological sense one has of oneself.
It is a mental illness, and it has psychosocial factors in development.
Unfortunately, after about age 8 it is untreatable in any successful capacity. So we do what we can to comfort them.
>>71843142
No, dumbass, it's not. You don't have something that persistently occurs across species after species after species that has no survival value. That makes no sense and in fact never happens. Those things are bred out. Non-breeding is not bred out, because it has a survival benefit.
I'll even spell it out for you. Under conditions of scarcity, having a percentage of breeders concentrate on supporting their close kin, their nieces and nephews and siblings instead, is a survival advantage. Fewer mouths to feed, more adults to feed them. Simple fucking math.
>>71843259
Many non-mentally-ill people have homicidal tendencies as well. In a civilized society we don't use force against someone because he might have unexpressed criminal tendencies.
>>71843553
As long as they don't submit to plastic surgery, most of them can.
>>71842827
This.
>>71843760
There is a difference betwen you THINKING about gutting your co-worker becasue he's annoying and another guy actually gutting a person and wearing his skin as a coat because the voices told him to.
>>71832148
Is that girl in the op's picture really a guy?
>>71842929
>Genetic defect = mentally ill
>muh logic
No genetic defects aren't all mental illnesses. Most aren't.
Recessive and dominate genes don't always equal mental disorder.
Ie sickle cell's are resistant to malaria.
Having sickle cell doesn't make you unable to produce and it is there for a purpose. Even though it has drawbacks. Being gay doesn't help towards anything.
Being gay has no purpose in the goal of furthering your species. It doesn't benefit you in your environment.
Being tall helps you reach higher shit to feed on.
Having fucked up vision is a defect. But it isn't a mental disorder.
Once more there is nothing wrong with being gay. There is just no evolutionary benefit.
