Why is /pol/ so anti-unions, do you hate freedom or something?
Unions used to be good but now they are shit
>>71802091
>Unions
>Freedom
M-my god! Why do you goy-I mean guys hate Unions so much? What's wrong with you?
Unions are pointless in the 21st century. They do more harm than good
>>71802091
well meme'd, m'faggot!
*tips fedora*
*inhales vape pen*
*masturbates to anime*
*cries loudly*
>giving up the right to negotiate your own pay, benefits, etc to someone else
>freedom
OK
Anyway I'm not against them, think they're pretty useless in this day and age, but if people want to unionize more power to them
>>71802158
So they won all these rights and privileges and now you think they will remain safe and secure if unions disappear?
>>71802453
lol, come back when you get your first job, kid.
>>71802652
>implying
government, nationalist (maybe like a modern, aussie version of the SS) run unions are good for protectign workers and employers. remmeber, the most important reason forbeing safe at work, isnt at work at all.
Unions should only ever be temporary
>>71802091
You've made this exact thread before with this exact OP.
I'll post the exact thing I posted in the last thread. Private sector unions are good, public sector unions are cancer.
>>71802312
Big problem in America was the dismantling of unions and the subsequent deregulation and shipping of jobs abroad.
>>71803495
Jobs went abroad in part because of how demanding the unions were becoming. Not to mention they're corrupt organizations which bully non-members into either joining or quitting. Don't even get me started on how utterly retarded the states that don't have right to work laws are.
Come on people.
Unions, even when working as intended, are little more than legalized extortion. It's about making management decisions without having earned the right or having the knowledge to do so.
If workers rights are to be protected, it has to be done by the only entity with a legit monopoly on force and the interests of everybody impartially in mind - the government, labor laws etc.
Of course that requires the govt to actually be impartial which means equal representation for workers and bosses which we haven't achieved yet.
As it stands unions are little more than bloodsuckers working against employees' best wishes.
They need to die.
>>71802091
Unionists are typically degenerate, entitled cry babies.
UAW-Ford member here, I like my union, they have done a lot to make sure we have great wags and benefits, but like any type of business, theres corrupt people.
>>71802091
Unions are a cancer. It takes 100 times longer for union workers to finish a job than their non-union counterparts
Literally Soviet tier
>tfw able to retire at 45 thanks to union wages
Anti union is Anti American
>>71803777
So much this.
>>71802091
because we love guzzling that sweet bourgeois propaganda straight from the spout.
Unions are one of the reasons our economy is in deep shit. Tons of corruption, pointless extra "taxes", and the removal of a competitive environment.
>>71802091
>unions
>soviet union
You know thats how they got that name right?
Commie scum.
>>71802091
>unions with govt-given powers
>good
>at all
Well, they definitely are great at seemingly improving your wage and working condition for the first few years before those same "improvements" will cause small investors to go out of business and unemployment to rise - and with it, wages of higher-pay workers to sink. Unions are allowed existance solely because in the long run they cause the richest to grow richer and the poor class to expand in volume.
>>71802091
>Why is /pol/ so anti-unions, do you hate freedom or something?
Union's became a joke once the Boomers took them over - they use to support workers and stop out of control employers, now they only give a fuck about the older member's retirement funds and political agendas while leaving everything else to burn.
A good example would be the SDA here in Australia - once apon a time they held the service industry together, said industry today has been run into the ground with constant breaches to workplace law and the union refuses to do its job while demanding our government support same sex marriage.
>>71804245
But that's wrong you retard.
>union of soviet socialist republics
As in, a union, or joining, of soviet socialist republics. It has nothing to do with labour unions, which were outlawed in tsarist Russia.
>>71803495
>Blaming deunionization for sending jobs abroad
Lol unions have the exact opposite effect that you think, a country where money is going to union dues and unions have increased costs for employers is going to be less competitive internationally.
Unions mostly serve as a check against certain abusive business practices, lax safety practices, corrupt fixing of wages, stuff like that. I don't know in this day and age they're really worth their downsides.
I can't help but feel I may not have an entirely balanced view of unions because I heard pro-union drivel from my unionized teachers for a large part of my life, and anti-union propaganda from companies attempting to lower the minimum wage to $3 on the other hand.
I can't help feeling like I may be getting misinformed here.
>paying someone $20/hour + other benefits health plan pension to pull a lever and tighten a bolt
yeah nah, ship those jobs to Mexico
>>71802091
Unions are usually public sector and are the worst
>>71803495 >>71803699 >>71804808
Didn't most unions support NAFTA?
Now Carrier, Ford, and dozens of other businesses are in Mexico or out of the Americas
>>71805071
But the union bosses got paid pretty well for it.
>>71803699
>Jobs went abroad in part because of how demanding the unions were becoming.
Complete bullshit.
The auto industry in Michigan was highly unionized from the 1930s to today.
The textile industry in North Carolina from the 1930s to today had very, very minimal unionization.
Unionized Michigan auto workers are people like Larry Page (Google/Alphabet CEO's) grandfather, or Michael Moore's father. They had a good job and their kids moved into other careers and did well (Larry Page's father was a professor).
In North Carolina, they made little money and got little education. Yet despite never unionizing, the jobs left and went to Latin America and China any how.
The Michigan workers saved money and their children got educated in the flush decades of US manufacturing. North Carolina textile workers made little, and their kids got little education. Now they're fucked.
If unionization killed manufacturing jobs, why did the textile factories close down in North Carolina, which competes with South Carolina year to year as least unionized state?
>>71802091
Unions - needed 100 years ago, parasites in the modern era.
>>71803777
>As it stands unions are little more than bloodsuckers working against employees' best wishes.
It's a joke that the heirs who don't work, and have their managers expropriate wealth created during worker's surplus labor time, tell their workers that if they organize, their fellow workers will become "bloodsuckers". Who can be more of a bloodsuckers than the heir who gives this BS line to workers.
Even the language shows their idea - there are trainers and trainees, employers and employees. They want you to use language that you are a subordinate. When they are the parasite sucking off your wealth. Why does no one speak of how employers and managers are parasites who suck off the work of those who do the work and create the wealth?
>>71802453
Joining an union is voluntary. And unions have the strength to negotiate better deals
>>71804555
SDA has a sweetheart deal with Wesfarmers and Woolworths, who give them $5 million each per year and the ability to deduct dues from pays (no direct debit needed).
SDA love it, they do fuck all for their members
But that doesn't mean all unions are bad, mmkay.
>>71802091
Union leaders are largely communists. They use you to their end more than they protect your interests.
>>71805856
You have to join a union to get certain jobs though, from nurses to teachers to trades
There was a lawsuit by teachers that were forced to pay dues to unions who would donate to political organizations, even if all didn't agree. It was shot down.
>>71805447
Yes, I'm sure the employers will just stop trying to unwind all the wins unions have got over the decades and just leave it be when unions disappear
kek
>>71804494
>cause small investors to go out of business
You think we're going to listen to some polack? Look at your shithole country. Why don't you go to your parliament and hang out with the fanatical polack grandmother catholic religious fanatics and screech about how the cross should stay their forever.
People are talking here, we don't need polack morons from backwards shitholes like Poland volunteering their useless opinions. Although obviously you are siding with the morons, what a surprise.
>>71806081
You guys just need to eradicate closed shops, even we did that shit in the 80's.
It makes unions have to fight to get members to join, offering more and more to their members.
they fucking destroyed the country in the 70s desu
although thatcher went too far in stopping them and now british workers are all cucked
i just want trade unions that fight in a reasonable way for pay and conditions, but they always seem to end up being run by grotesquely corrupt morons like Scargill. dont even get me started on the fucking dockworkers jesus christ they should all have been shot
>>71806153
Not an argument.
>>71806081
>You have to join a union to get certain jobs though, from nurses to teachers to trades
>There was a lawsuit by teachers that were forced to pay dues to unions who would donate to political organizations, even if all didn't agree. It was shot down.
Love how these pathetic bootlickers think. I don't get to choose who manages me or runs my company either if I decide to join a certain company, you fucking moron. So if that's the case, if they decide to agree to require all employees to join a union before being employed, how is that different than any other thing they require? The one thing protecting you you want to fuck up for the other workers. What a fucking moron you are.
>>71806153
shut up you nigger the grown ups are talking
>>71806114
Maybe in your faggy Auscuck nation, yes, but we're not Australia, so I guess that's that.
>>71802091
unions are all fine and dandy until laws start mixing in with them
>>71806573
>buddy got a mechanic job to maintain and fix city buses
>did in 3hours a repair job the other guys there wouldve taken a day to do
>union guy went to give him shit about trying to make the others look like incompetents
>buddy didnt care and kept working
>3 guys went and told him the arbitrary time the differents jobs are to take and that he could only do 3 different repairs per day max no matter how long it really took
>they made it clear there would be trouble if he didnt do as they say
He quit. Anectodal bit about union-enabling horseshit. What a great idea to make it a lawsuit-ridden hassle to fire scum so long as they show up to work every day
>>71803777
Look up the history of our unions and the working conditions we use to have. I trust the unions more then the capitalist
>>71806441
Well with jobs being shipped overseas and people replaced with H1Bs, how the fuck are unions benefiting anyone?
You do realize look unions useless when they go on strike every other week because they can't get a contract
>>71802091
I hate union corruption, which is preveilant in the modern union movement.
Not just illegal corruption, but corruption of purpose. The union stops representing the best interest of the worker and becomes another political organisation serving itself. Unions are commonly staffed by career unionists that never actually spent time as a pleb on the work site. They go right out of university/university politics into a union internship.
>>71803699
>jobs would have stayed if the margins for producing in the US were only a little lower rather than a lot lower
The entire idea of capitalism maximising efficiency depends on this being untrue.
>>71802091
Idk about straya, but here they are basically working for their own interests.
If you are not in the union you'll get threatened and your dipshit colleague will get the promotion instead of you because he's a union member.
The quality of your work doesn't matter.
The only thing that matters is licking the boot of your rep.
Generally you pay 1% of your paycheck to the union. And in return they are supposed to have your back.
If you get layed off you'll quickly discover that you're worthless scum tonthe union.
You are no longer generating income for the union, so why should they bother with you.
They are the cruelest capitalists i know.
Right now our steel-workers are on strike because we are being underbid by chyna.
The same people that are now fearing for their jobs wanted tougher work safety laws, better environmental regulations and more money for a job that essentially stayed the same for the past decades.
And now they are surprised that a guy whos cooking steel in flipflops for 50 cents a day is stealing their job.
Whats supposed to happen in a unionist mind? Is the taxpayer supposed to pay for you to make steel that is no longer wanted?
And every cent that could be spent on R&D/lobbyists to futureproof the business and your job is going to mike the elevator boy who you can't fire even though a 4-year-old can operate an elevator.
>>71806760
>hampering the successful ones while helping the lazy and unskilled
Dunno, sounds like a perfect example of socialism to me
>>71802091
At one time they were extremely important but now they can be extremely destructive and unproductive. The good year in Oklahoma is a good example they arnt union and they put out more than the other unionized ones. Only reason I know this is because my father in law told me they might be closing a few union plants.
>>71807538
>And every cent that could be spent on R&D/lobbyists to futureproof the business
How fucking stupid are you?
Google has been trying to spend money for R&D to future proof their business and they are being crucified for it. Very few other CEOs have the power, ability or desire to do so.
Money expropriated from the workers creating the wealth is going to R&D which will safeguard their jobs in the future - what a laugh!
>>71803419
This
>>71802091
Because they force the market and encourage government payouts.
With things the way they are regarding wage, I can't see the point in a union.
>>71802091
>unions
Your picture pretty much sums up union workers. One doing work while the others stand around.
>>71807538
This sums up why I hate protectionism.
>>71807707
>Money expropriated from the workers creating the wealth is going to R&D which will safeguard their jobs in the future - what a laugh!
You must love stagnating economies. The point of an economy isn't to hire people for the sake of hiring people, but for providing value for others. This fundamental concept has been lost on you and many other people.
>>71807707
>expropriated
Socialist detected
You really don't see how increasingly uncompetitive western businesses become?
You really don't see that you're importing shit from 10000 miles away because it's cheaper to pay for a ship than to pay you?
And this is not expropriation by your standards?
And you don't see that on the horizon your job will be completely gone if you don't adapt?
But it's ok take your 3% increase in salary and start saving for early retirement - you're gonna need that money sooner than you think.
