Hello there /k/
Just looking to speak to an American, about your gun laws and your thoughts on them, I'm Australian, and need help understanding why, Americans are so opposed to common-sense gun laws
Also, not looking for a flame war, just an actual conversation.
This is some shitty bait.
>SHALL
>NOT
>BE
>INFRINGED
What you call "common sense" we call "unconstitutional slippery slope bullshit that does fuck-all to reduce crime."
"Do not post threads about gun control. They belong on /pol/."
because what people say is common sense is anything but
>>71718583
OK, for instance, here in Australia, anyone can have a gun, as long as you have a license, and have completed a training course,
Why do you think that is bad?
>>71718583
Mainly because "Common sense laws" are ineffective, and American gun owners have just a shred of their previous rights, and the rights the bill of rights is supposed to guarantee us.
Also, all it does is set up a slippery slope for stricter gun control.
>>71718583
Disarmament of the public is not common sense, its nonsense. The only reason for gun control is because governments want to have a monopoly on force.
>>71718587
Here in america, guns are regulated in a similar way to cars. Want to carry your gun in public? Get a CCW. Want to drive on public roads? Get a license. Buying and owning a gun/car without a license is perfectly legal.
>>71718589
Ok, listen, no one is talking about disarmament, at least im not, I'm simply asking, shouldn't it be more difficult for criminals and the insane to buy guns?
>>71718583
Agriculture. We have to exterminate species that shouldn't exist.
And a few guys with AR's.cam eliminate the bullshitt requirements.
>>71718583
Shall not be infringed.
>>71718591
There are already background checks that do a damn good job of stopping criminals and the insane from buying guns. They get their guns through non-legal channels.
>>71718590
Right, so you can OWN a gun without a licence, doesn't that seem a bit dangerous to you?
>>71718584
Not bait, genuinely curious
>>71718595
No?
You can own a car without a license, you can own knives without license, you can own certain explosives without a license, why should a gun be any different, when there are much more dangerous things out there you can buy?
>>71718594
I didn't know that. From the outside, the media makes it seem like there is none of that in place, is that nationwide, or on a state-by-state basis?
>>71718591
Anyone with a felony on their record cannot purchase firearms, and it is a felony to sell to them. Same for those that have been deemed to be a danger to themselves or others by a mental health professional. Less than one percent of firearms acquired through legal means are ever used to commit any form of crime. I challenge you to come up with a system with a better success rate that does not unjustly restrict the rights of those who have done nothing to deserve such treatment.
>>71718583
can you find one piece of evidence suggesting gun laws in any way decrease overall violent crime rates?
>>71718598
Nationwide, its called the NICS. It is very effective and only takes a few minutes to complete.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System
>>71718587
those things sound reasonable but theres too much open to interpretation
like the requirements to get a license and what consists of training
im not an expert on austrailan law but it seems like some categories are just flat out impossible to get
the categories themselves seem to be arbitrary and random
like theres a cz 75austrailian which is legal in austrailia but the standard cz75 isnt
the only difference is barrel length
the standard is 4.6 inches
how the fuck does that .3 difference between legal and illegal make any amount of sense?
>>71718591
>i dont even know the current gun laws: the post
>>71718598
Nationwide, NICS, the tool used to run background checks by all federally licensed firearms dealers, is an acronym for National Instant Check System. Though instant in this case means 20-45 minutes.
>>71718599
Look man, i'm not looking to come up with a better system- just trying to get a lock on your thoughts and opinions,
>>71718600
Not what i'm here to do man, just looking for opinions and information.
Just FYI, I own firearms myself here in Aussie, im not anti-gun in anyway.
>>71718603
No i don't thats why i'm asking man.
>>71718601
Sweet, news makes it seem like there is nothing like that. Talk about manipulation
>>71718596
and im genuinely curious why youre a shitposting moron
"common sense gun laws" is a bullshit term created by liberals who have no factual reason to push through their desired legislation
>>71718595
its not dangerous in the least, licensing doesnt make you an expert and doesnt guarantee even a basic level of competence, theres plenty of shitty drivers on the road and driving requires a license
>b-but anon driving = license so gun = license
driving a car isnt a right
>>71718598
because the media wants to control you with fear. ALL gun shops are REQUIRED to do background checks, most states do not require them for private sales, and in states that do require them they are not significantly effective.
>WA forces background checks on all sales
>in 2 years, 50 sales blocked [out of tens of thousands]
>ZERO CONVICTIONS
>ZERO individuals even CHARGED with violating the law
>despite sufficient evidence
>multiple agencies have stated they wont enforce universal background checks
>namely because they are not provided any resources to do so and cant devote the time/effort/staff to it
>and the law itself is unenforceable
before 594, most sellers required that you provide proof that you werent a criminal in the form of a concealed pistol license which is revoked should the holder become a prohibited person, this system was perfectly effective
>>71718605
youre asking if gun laws should be stricter. i asked if there was any evidence that stricter gun laws actually have an effect on the ability of a criminal to commit a crime. if there isnt any evidence that they lower overall crime, what reason is there for the gun laws in the first place?
>>71718607
>before 594, most sellers required that you provide proof that you werent a criminal in the form of a concealed pistol license which is revoked should the holder become a prohibited person, this system was perfectly effective
So why did they change that, sounds like it would have worked?
>>71718583
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
It is by far the most important right we have
Also when was the last time a criminal cared about "common sense" laws or any other laws for that matter?
There are a lot of nations who have the luxury of disarming because of the security the United States provides. But in the United States, the first reason for the 2nd Amendment is to allow the people to protect ourselves from our government. We must inherently mistrust government not because those in government are bad but because power tends to corrupt even the finest among us. Think of the good men who slipped toward tyranny while president -- John Adams, Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, LBJ, and Nixon -- just to name a few. In all cases, they were thwarted. But what happens to the disarmed world if the light of liberty ever goes out in the United States? It is important to liberty we stay firm in our commitment to the 2nd Amendment and that our right to bear arms is not infringed in anyway.
>>71718608
I'm not saying they should be changed at all, I dont live there man, i'm just interested in what you guys think, seems like you all have some pretty good points to me.
>>71718610
I guess my question is this
Its pretty hard to deny that the USA has a problem with mass shootings.
Guns are not the problem, its the people using them - fair enough,
So why do you think you guys have so many school shootings and stuff?
>>71718609
it worked fine, but it wasnt a law, and washington had the "OMG SCARY GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE IT WILL KILL OUR CHILLUNZ"
so bloomberg came in, dropped a TON of money to push the fuck out of the law, and an ignorant populace voted it in
how did bloomberg do this? by spamming the media with extreme amounts of blatantly false information and using tens of millions of dollars to do so across the internet, radio, and TV. he used fear to promote it, and was successful
the money bloomberg used to push through this silly initiative would have had a larger impact on crime if the money had gone to services such as
>schools/education
>drug rehabilitation
>criminal rehabilitation
>homeless shelters
>law enforcement
>social services in areas of lower socio-economic status
>or literally anything else
>>71718611
might i recommend next time you decide to "just ask someones opinion", you do so without implying what they believe is going against common sense.
>>71718613
Whats the OMG SCARY GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE IT WILL KILL OUR CHILLUNZ"
?
>>71718612
Glorification of mass shooters turns killers into celebrities.
>>71718583
Because in the case of california these "common sense" laws are anything but.
there's currently a law in discussion that would, if passed, categorize rifles that in order to swap out and reload the magazine you have to physically use an extra tool as "assault weapons", require registration of them, and then make them non-transferable, IIRC registries are specifically outlawed by the firearm owners protection act (nationwide law) but I'd need to double check.
There are also currently laws on the books requiring any new pistols that are added to the "approved" handgun list to have "smart gun" technology as well as microstamping for the casings. Currently there are no manufacturers that offer those options in their firearms because the smart gun technology simply can't withstand the recoil from anything above a .22 rimfire, and microstamping is defeated by swapping your firing pin and the mark has been determined to wear down stupidly fast anyway.
Regardless all these "common sense" laws that keep getting bandied about generally do nothing more than restrict what law abiding citizens can do and own, while the criminal lawbreakers don't abide by the laws anyway. It is literally to the point where some law enforcement agencies have refused to even enforce some of the more recent laws because even they agree that the laws infringe on the rights of the citizens.
The majority of firearms deaths in the US are suicides.
>>71718614
didn't mean it like that "common sense gun law" is just what they call it in all the election coverage and shit.
Common sense, eh? Let's break this down.
Thesis: The US doesn't have that many gun deaths.
The latest year the US Center for Disease Control has death statistics for is 2013.
In 2013, the US population was 316.5 million
There were 2,596,993 deaths.
Of those 33,364 were caused by firearms, which accounted for 1.2% of all deaths.
On top of that, 21,175 firearms deaths were self-inflicted, or suicides.
This means actual non-suicide firearms deaths were 12,189, or .4% of the total death toll.
That number, 12,189, includes ALL non suicide gunshot deaths, including "mass shootings," gang bangers banging, cops banging bangers, the occasional self-defense shooting, and the random dumbass accidentally shooting a friend.
And the US, with a gun(maybe more than one) for every man, woman and child, has half the suicide rate of, say, South Korea, where civilian gun ownership is banned.
By contrast, prescription drug overdose killed 43,982 (1.6%) and poisonings totalled 48,545 (1.8%), and those poisonings were mostly small children getting into household chemicals.
This means junior is about four times more likely to die from drinking bleach than he is from a random shooting.
By the by, some other things that kill people in the US?
Heart disease, 611,105 (23.5%)
Cancer, 584,881 (22.5%)
Random-ass accidents, like slipping in the bathtub, 130,557 (5%)
Stroke 128,978 (4.9%)
Diabetes, 75,5788 (2.9%)
Flu and pneumonia, 56,979 (2.1%)
Suicide, all types, 41,149 (1.5%)
Auto accidents, 33,804 (1.3%)
So, getting randomly shot is literally one of the least likely ways to die in the United States of Hyperbole.
A Big Mac value meal is, quite literally, 60 times more likely to kill you than a bullet.
Furthermore, gun deaths are at a 20-year low, according to the FBI, while gun ownership continues to increase.
.4%
I guess heart disease doesn't scare soccer moms enough to be worth a media campaign.
>>71718615
The erroneous belief that background checks are not required at gunshows.
>>71718619
fair enough. you should mention that in the OP next time
>>71718621
theyre not. only licensed vendors have to have background checks done
>>71718583
>common-sense gun laws
Faulty logic that ignores statistics and emotion driven legislation based off inflammatory news stories is not common sense, its just being an idiot.
The homicide rate in the US has been on the decline for the past 30 years while gun ownership has been on the rise. Internationally there is no correlation between gun laws and violent crime rates or homicide rates. Japan and Switzerland both have some of the lowest violent crime rates in the world, Japan has very strict gun laws, while Switzerland has the third highest rate of gun ownership in the world.
Finally there's the simple fact that the people's right to bare arms and their capacity for armed rebellion against the state must be maintained as the final safeguard against tyranny. To quote Thomas Jefferson "When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.".
You were foolish to allow your masters to declaw you without a fight.
>>71718620
Assuming all of those statistics are correct, (not going to check, ill just take your word for it)
Doesn't really seem like much of a problem at all
>>71718612
>So why do you think you guys have so many school shootings and stuff?
The media glorifies mass shooters by talking about them non stop so it breeds copycats
We also live in a time when traditional masculinity is being shit on left and right so instead of engaging in healthy outlets for aggression such as boxing or mma or even having a night out drinking yourself into a stupor you're left with the idea being pushed that men need to "talk about their feelings" instead of engage in productive activity
There's also just a lot of batshit insane people out there and in a country of 350 million people it's going to of course be a more substantial amount than many European nations which have populations smaller than many american cities
>>71718620
Firearms fatalities are now at the same level as motor vehicle fatalities.
>>71718615
Media constantly portrays imagery of gunshows; massive tables full of handguns, rifles, gun parts, scary things while narrating that gun shows don't require background checks. This leads the viewer, who is very unlikely to do his own research, to believe that any Joe Blow can walk into a gun show and buy a fully automatic grenade launcher in cash and walk out.
The reality is that the tables chock full of guns at gun shows do exist. However, those tables are owned and operated by licensed dealers, who will require a background check. It is true that I can bring one of my guns and sell it to Joe Blow there without a background check. It is also true that I can sell my rifle to Joe Blow in the parking lot of Wal Mart if I wanted to. The right to transfer firearms privately without a background check was a specific clause in the 'Brady Act,' the law that mandated NICS background checks for licensed dealers.
It is not a 'loophole.' It is a specific, intentional clause of the law.
>>71718622
>only licensed vendors
Right, and anything else counts as a private sale, which as has been stated, has no regulation other than it being a felony to sell to persons legally prohibited from owning firearms. If the average person could access NICS, say, with a smartphone app, then that problem would disappear as well. Then only straw purchases would remain a problem, as far as exchanging money for firearms goes.
>>71718612
>Its pretty hard to deny that the USA has a problem with mass shootings.
which is not really true in the least, mass shootings account for an incredibly small number of all homicides, the issue is the way the media presents such crimes as though they are extremely common and are a problem. if anything source of homicides is a problem it would be gang violence which accounts for a vast majority (80%) of all homicides in the united states
>So why do you think you guys have so many school shootings and stuff?
the simple answer is mental health, nobody can say with a straight face that elliot rodger is a sane person, he wanted attention in general, from his parents, from his peers, from women, which is why he had the youtube channel of nothing but him trying to show off his car and sound intelligent. people ignored the warning signs because nobody wants to say "hey this guy needs help" and individuals who are not sane do not believe they need help. another issue is that the media makes the shooters celebrities by plastering their faces 24/7 all over the media all because it helps their ratings
>Whats the OMG SCARY GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE IT WILL KILL OUR CHILLUNZ"
So, federal law states that it is up to the individual states to regulate ALL sales of firearms with a few exceptions (ex: all gun stores must do background checks), and federal law does not regulate the private sale of firearms. Since in most states private sales do not require background checks they falsely believe that A) lack of regulation = loophole, B) most gun sales occur at gun shows C) no gun shows run background checks ever, and D) most criminals buy guns at gun shows
A) lack of regulation != loophole, if a state doesnt say whether or not i can jaywalk, and i do, is that a loophole? fucking no. loopholes are ambiguities, things that have a wording vague enough to where the law itself can be exploited (ex: tax loopholes, regulations exist but loopholes in the law are present, and abused)
>>71718622
with the exception of states requiring background checks on all private sales.
>>71718624
It's really not. The only reason this is even relevant to American politics is that we were stupid enough to let women vote. It's all MUH FEELINGS and MUH CHILLINS idiocy without a shred of logic or fact.
>>71718629
B) most sales occur at gun stores, not gun shows
C) plenty of gun shows run background checks, and dealers present at gun shows must run background checks as well, gun shows are not 100% private sellers
D) most criminals do not even bother with going to gun shows or gun stores, they go to other criminals or acquire their guns through illegal means (straw purchases, theft)
>>71718624
The problem is that the 24 hour media makes a massive week long BREAKING NEWS!! with the killers face and body count plastered all over every media source imaginable, all fuel for the next kid with a gun and a dream to be famous.
>>71718626
If you include suicides, which is garbage.
>>71718624
It's not
The people who push for it are all about feel-good legislation that doesn't do anything other than virtue signal
It's also a "wedge issue," which is a term that all people need to familiarize themselves with
Well, you guys have pretty much convinced me that there is no real problem - without getting angry. Good stuff.
>>71718628
That sounds like a good idea, giving everyone access to that NICS.
Thanks /k/ Good chat, one last thing, if there was any amendment to current laws that you could make, what would it be? (i'm speaking on a personal level)
>>71718628
in most states its only illegal to KNOWINGLY privately sell to someone who cant legally buy guns. nobody would force you to check.
>>71718630
this is true
>>71718583
States with more gun control laws have a lower rate of firearm related deaths.
>>71718636
Repeal the NFA
>>71718636
Repealing the NFA.
>>71718638
>>71718636
Repeal the NFA
>>71718639
Whats the NFA? (forgive me, Australian.)
>>71718636
>>71718639
>>71718640
>>71718638
But not a lower violent crime rate or homicide rate.
Criminals use what's convenient, if they can get guns then they use guns, if they can get knives they use knives, if they can't get knives they'll use a rock or a pointy stick.
>>71718636
>That sounds like a good idea, giving everyone access to that NICS.
Indeed, too bad the people that want universal background checks don't want to do that, they want to eliminate private sales and by doing so, create a de facto registry of all privately owned firearms.
>>71718643
The most significant blow ever dealt to the 2nd Amendment
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act
>>71718643
Its requires full-auto weapons, SBR's, etc to require a tax stamp and is a de-facto ban on automatic weapons.
>>71718643
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act
>>71718645
Or a rented truck filled with home made ANFO.
>>71718624
You may check the CDC and FBI stats if you have a question as to the validity of those stats.
It's all publicly available.
.4%
Given the number of crazy people out there, it almost paints us 'Muricans as remarkably cautious and responsible.
>>71718648
Also prevents felons from owning firearms which is a blatant violation of the 2nd Amendment
>>71718645
The majority of firearms deaths in the US are suicides.
>>71718648
Technically the hughes amendment is the de facto ban of FAs, but the NFA created the conditions necessary for the hughes amendment to exist.
>>71718648
Why is that bad? Can't you just get a stamp?
>>71718652
And then watch what happens when you subtract gang violence from that number
>>71718643
National Firearms Act.
It require certain restricted firearms to have a special tax stamp, tons of paperwork, a $200 fee, and the guns themselves are registered.
This includes
Short Barreled Rifles: Rifles with a barrel under 16" or an overal length of under 24.5" if i remember correctly
Short Barreled Shotguns: Shotguns with a barrel length under 18" or under a certan OAL
Destructive devices: Rifles above a certain limit, not sure exactly but 20mm is classified as a DD; grenade launchers, stuff like that. Fun side note, a 40mm launcher is a DD but a 37mm launcher is a "flare launcher"
Suppressors and machine guns top off the NFA
There are also "Any Other Weapons" which is a final catchall classification. A pistol with a forgrip mounted on it is an AOW
>>71718638
then in 2014 why did california have nearly 10 times the number of homicides that washington did?
>2014
>CA homicides: 1,697
>CA rate/100,000: 4.4
>WA homicides: 174
>WA rate/100,000: 0.02
>2014 United States homicides: 14,249
>2014 United states rate/100,000: 0.04
So what do we know from this?
In 2014, CA had far more homicides than WA, with a rate 220 times higher than WA
CA had 12% of ALL US homicides at a rate 110 times higher than the entire United States
And yet CA is one of the most restrictive states when it comes to gun ownership
>>71718654
A tax on owning something is a de facto infringement on that right, it excludes people who cannot afford the tax from ownership
>>71718654
Because it's retarded, unconstitutional, retarded, and I shouldn't have to.
Also did I mention it is pants on head fucking retarded?
>>71718658
Right, I see what you are getting at.
>>71718656
with the exception of the fee, which I can understand is silly, isn't having guns registered a good thing?
>>71718657
Are you implying that loosening the firearms laws in California would make that number go down?
>>71718660
>isn't having guns registered a good thing?
Hell no it's not. It allows the government to have a complete list of who owns what guns, which is a precondition for being able to seize said guns.
>>71718660
What good does having a gun registry do?
It won't stop criminals from getting guns they just won't register them they'll go blackmarket or just make their own
You can make a shotgun with 2 pieces of pipe and a nail
>>71718659
>>71718654
It's even more fun with AR pistols.
>>71718583
what are "common sense" gun laws to you?
>>71718660
>isn't having guns registered a good thing?
no. not at all.
imagine if every kitchen knife in your house was registered.
imagine if every chemical in your home was registered and tracked.
it's orwellian levels of fucked up.
>>71718583
I'll take the bait. There are no "common sense" gun laws. I'll break it down:
>The infamous "assault weapons ban"
These types of laws ban guns for the features they have, like adjustable stocks, muzzle breaks, barrel shrouds... features that don't make the firearm any deadlier.
These types of laws save zero lives, they only piss off the law-abiding citizen, who was never going to commit a crime anyways.
Here's a great website explaining why assault weapons bans are completely ineffective: http://www.assaultweapon.info/
>magazine capacity limits
These types of laws restrict how many rounds you can have in your firearm. They typically restrict it to 10 rounds, but sometimes it is even less.
This one makes sense though, right? It forces those pesky mass shooters to stop and reload, saving lives, correct?
Well, no. With enough training and good gear, a person utilizing only 10 round magazines can be just as effective as someone running 30 round mags.
Furthermore, a criminal could easily obtain proper magazines easily, or make their own. Many people have even made them with 3d printers.
Once again, this type of law will save zero lives, and piss off law-abiding citizens.
>gun free zones
These are areas where firearms are forbidden, such as elementary schools, universities, movie theaters, hospitals, etc.
Out of all of the proposed anti-gun legislation, this type pisses me off the most. Why? Because it gets people killed.
All it does is create soft targets, with a convenient sign out front to let every nutjob know. Criminals are not deterred by gun free zones, but the good guys (licensed carry holders) are. Nearly every single mass shooting in the last 30 years has been in a gun free zone.
~
Anyways, I hope this makes sense. I know this is probably bait, but I cringe every time someone mentions "common sense" gun laws.
>>71718660
Registration is not a good thing.
This isn't like registering your gun with the manufacturer for warranty coverage, which is a great idea.
This is registering it with the state so that they may rescind your right to own it if they see fit to do so. There is no upside to it, only potential downsides.
>>71718629
>80% of homicides
>The majority of which are gun related
>But you CAN'T buy a gun legally with a record
>Guns bought legally are traded illegally
But you guys don't care about gang violence because you're all a bunch of racist fucks. The information is there, the laws are fucked and ya'll are delusional.
Disclaimer: I like guns, yet I can still see how fucked our laws are.
>>71718660
Are you just messing with us now or what? What good does a gun registry do, other than give the powers-that-be an easy tool to confiscate firearms?
How do you start a registry with over 300 million items on it, owned by people who definitely lost all their guns last year! How does it do anything other than harm lawful firearm owners?
>>71718668
Gee, perhaps it should be illegal to sell legally purchased guns to those who would otherwise be unable to purchase them?
Oh, it is?
>Carry on, then.
>>71718660
>isn't having guns registered a good thing?
Ask the jews how they liked having their religion registered by the germans. Registration has historically always led to confiscation. Why does the government need to know what I have, if I've done nothing wrong? Get a fucking warrant if you want to know what's in my gun safe.
![HG3089ND[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SMtYYnU.jpg "HG3089ND[1].jpg")
>>71718656
here is what is retarded about the NFA:
>you can create a shotgun not legally defined as a shotgun (non-NFA item), not defined as a pistol (non-NFA), an Any other Weapon (NFA item), a Short Barreled Shotgun (NFA item), or Destructive Device (NFA item) and it will simply be a "firearm"
>these silly NFA definitions allow weird firearms that appear to be NFA items but really arent
and whats the difference between a 16" barrel and a 15.9" barrel? why does 0.1" matter? An AR with a 14.5" barrel isnt any more dangerous or concealable than one with a 16" barrel
Further, I can permanently attach something to a shorter barrel to increase my barrel length. EX: if i take a 14.5" barrel and permanently attach a 1.5" muzzle device, its technically a 16" barrel
If i take pic related and add a stock, its an SBR, if i permanently attach a "muzzle device" to bring the "barrel" length to 16" and add a stock, its then considered a rifle, the NFA is silly
>>71718661
what im blatantly saying is that CA's gun laws did not make anybody in the state safer, and a neighboring state with more lax laws has a fraction of the homicides at an insanely lower rate
WA is a safer state, CA has more gun laws, in short the gun laws do not make you safe
>>71718612
>Its pretty hard to deny that the USA has a problem with mass shootings.
It isn't actually, considering they are actually kind of uncommon and are becoming less common with each year, violence in the US has steadily decreased since 1990, it's currently it's lowest since 1952 and it shows no sign of stopping it's decline.
When the media says "FIDDY MASS SHOOTINGS A YEAR" they are intentionally citing statistics wrong, events like Columbine or Sandy Hook are actually very rare, and the events in statistics cited by the media are not at all like those, rarely going past 3 injured or killed, meanwhile, gun ownership has gone through the fucking ROOF in the past 10 years, the industry is booming.
The bulk of all gun violence is also committed by criminals against criminals, the average gunshot victim in the US has an arrest record somwhere around 10 or 11, meanwhile, the amount of defensive gun uses (not counting justifiable homicides) range between 100 000 (begrudingly admitted by the most anti-gun sources), and well over 1 000 000 (the most pro-gun sources).
Guns aren't a problem, gang violence is, and that's fueled by general localized poverty and The War On Drugs (tm)
>>71718662
Ok, i see what you mean
>>71718663
I'm not a of the belief that less guns = less crime, and DESU, you're right, a gun registry would to nothing,
>>71718669
Not messing with you, just hadn't thought it through.
>>71718668
>But you guys don't care about gang violence because you're all a bunch of racist fucks.
Maybe if we make gangs illegal gang violence will disappear.
>>71718670
Does this prevent that from happening?
No.
Fucking RETARD
>>71718664
you forgot the sillyness of braces!
in 2013, if i took a brace such as the Sig Brace or KAK Shockwave Blade and shouldered it (in lieu of a stock) it was perfectly fine! but if i did that today i would be illegally manufacturing an SBR
why? because the ATF says so
the ATF stated that both items are NOT stocks, but that using them in a way that they are not designed can create NFA violations
this has resulted in 0 convictions, and cant possibly be enforced, what are you gonna do, have an ATF agent undercover at every range and shooting pit waiting to catch people doing that shit? nope. and ranges dont give a fuck.
>>71718676
Ok, so what do we do? The gun grabbers constantly say WE NEED TO OUTLAW STRAW PURCHASES.
They're already illegal.
Now what? How do you prevent someone with an item from selling that item to someone else, legally or illegally?
>>71718583
>common-sense gun laws
Define one commie
>>71718678
you cant
if you have a registry, do you really think that criminals are gong to go "man, theres a gun registry, i better go register this GUN THAT I STOLE when i sell it to my homie Lil Brik"
Canada already proved that a gun registry is pointless unless the government wants to take your guns away, which is why they abolished it
>>71718678
Do what the Australians did.
But we won't.
>>71718668
So rather than focusing on fighting the core issues of gang violence such as poverty and lack of education and a culture that glorifies violence you would rather restrict the ability of upstanding citizens to own firearms?
Let's say all guns magically disappear from the planet, you think gang violence will magically disappear as well?
Fuck no they'll continue on in their activities except instead of guns they'll use bats and swords and knives and whatever else they can get their hands on
Guns do not cause violence
>>71718672
You're switching from the rate of firearm homicide to the rate of all homicide. Most firearm deaths are also suicides. When dealing with firearms laws you should probably stick to statistics related to firearms, not overall crime. It tends to muddy the issue and makes you look like an idiot.
>>71718678
Make the psychic guards from Oblivion real.
>>71718676
Well, golly.
It's almost as though you've seen the point I was trying to make, you fucking cum-sock.
What can one do to prevent these crimes, which isn't an infringement on those who don't commit said crimes?
Possession by criminals is illegal.
Straw purchases are illegal.
Armed robbery is illegal.
Murder is illegal.
Laws don't solve some problems, and your language sounds like you're pushing for more things that don't affect jack dick as far as the people they're intended to stop.
>>71718591
It's illegal for criminals to have guns, that's a myth.
>>71718668
>Guns bought legally are traded illegally
but thats not true at all, most firearms owned by criminals are stolen
are you unable to read?
>But you guys don't care about gang violence because you're all a bunch of racist fucks
The only one here thats delusional is you
>>71718623
Japan cooks the fuck out of their numbers, the crime rate isn't even close to as low as they report.
The police intentionally labels any killing they can't figure out as a suicide so they can fluff their stats, as a result, a large chunk of their huge suicide rate are actually unsolved manslaughters and murders.
OP here.
You guys have opened my eyes - Thanks for that.
I still think the Australian laws are much better. BUT I don't think the Problem in the USA is anywhere near as bad as its made out to be.
Thats why I asked you guys, you know what you're talking about.
>>71718681
That's because this isn't a fucking honor system.
One event, group, incident or demographic isn't supposed to be able to fuck over the rights of honest men.
>>71718606
The media also shows politicians talking about guns purchased online as being a loophole. It isn't though, because a FFL has to recieve it, and run a background check on you. The media is always biased.
>>71718591
if you want it to be harder for crazy people to get guns, YOU HAVE TO IMPROVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR MENTAL HEALTH, GUN LEGISLATION WONT DO SHIT
its already illegal for crazies to own guns, but a lack of reporting between agencies and the FBI has resulted in crazy people being allowed to purchase guns, this is NOT A FAILING OF GUN LAWS ITS A FAILING OF THE MENTAL HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY IN PLACE, THE GUN LAWS ARE NOT THE ISSUE
>>71718689
If your laws prohibit lawful citizens from owning what they want, they aren't better.
>>71718587
So here in the US, purchase of things like suppressors, transferrable full autos, and firearms with barrels shorter than 16 inches and a buttstock attached is subject to a $200 one time tax and a form that takes the government agency charged with approving it anywhere from 3 months to almost a year to approve, depending on the current political climate and submission volume.
In other words, a leftist implementation of firearms licensing in the US would cost the government a shitload of money and take a ridiculous amount of time on purpose.
>>71718689
Well, you can keep 'em, mate.
We'll just stay here and hope things don't get so bad.
We'll gladly take you shooting if you make it up this way, though!
>>71718591
If you cannot be trusted with a firearm, why the FUCK are you walking the streets unsupervised, free to do harm to anyone in the first place?
>>71718689
It's still pretty bad, as mentioned, traffic accidents and firearms killed about the same number of people in the US last year. The US still leads the developed world in mass shootings, and to so far this year 60 people under 18 have used a firearm to unintentionally kill or injure themselves or someone else. Last year it was about 350. The US has a lot of firearms and a startlingly low level of funding for health and safety research on the subject. This issue is far from resolved.
>>71718689
your laws are much worse though. They don't save any lives and strip away your rights. Your government melted down old rifles and shotguns, pieces of history, for "public safety".
>"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither"
-Benjamin Franklin
>>71718693
Only Automatic weapons are Banned, thats all.
And, I personally dont have an issue with that.
>>71718694
Where does that gun reside in the meantime? Do you have to surrender it?(which would be bullshit)
>>71718695
I am planning on making a trip to the States next year, might take you up on that, Plenty to shoot here though haha - I do have my own guns
>>71718697
>60 people
>out of 320,000,000
>in four and a half months
Oh no, what a rampant and widespread issue!!!!
>>71718698
That kinda went out the window with seatbelt laws, didn't it?
>>71718698
I dont think thats true man, No children have accidently shot themselves in Australia since 1997
>>71718583
>Australian
>common-sense gun laws
>not looking for a flame war
>>71718703
I don't know man, I think we did pretty well overall.
Californian here. You can agree to whatever the fuck you want in the name of compromise. They'll still want more restrictions. They always want more. Same as you Australians have seen your already restricted laws get even more restricted.
Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Might not be today, might not be tomorrow, but they'll take it.
>>71718699
Well, a variety of ways. If you buy an NFA weapon, it is filled out with a Form-4 and the seller holds on to it until your form is approved.
If you "make" the weapon, it is on a Form-1. The weapon cannot be made until the form is approved. I have two Form-1's in the works right now, one is for a Yugoslavian M92 AK pistol and the other is for a VZ-61. Both of these are legally 'pistols.' I am simply adding a stock to them. I cannot have the stock attached, or even in my possession, until I get my form back. So for right now, I have two retarded guns until I get permission from Big Daddy Government to make the gun I want.
>>71718636
Repeal the 1934 NFA
Repeal the 1968 GCA
Repeal 922r
>>71718700
All of them preventable if the gun owners had stored them properly. This is the essence of the health and safety argument for firearms regulations. Isn't it common sense to keep firearms away from unsupervised children?
>>71718697
the fuck are you talking about? There are 33,000 deaths related to firearms each year, and 22,000 of that is due to suicide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
There are about 32,000 ish deaths due to traffic accidents ever year.
32,000 > 11,000. Fuck off
>>71718702
>think of the children!!!
>>71718710
Thats a pretty poor response man, you think innocent kids should accidentally die because their parents are irresponsible morons?
>>71718699
You can enjoy your little cuck guns over there, but if you ever want to shoot a gun built the way Browning, Kalashnikov, Stoner, etc intended, come to America.
>>71718708
>>71718711
Its not the responsibility of the government, its the responsibility of the parents.
>>71718587
I'll give you as unbiased as an opinion as I can, assuming you're not trying to bait and want a real discussion.
I think most firearms owners in the US are ok with needing training before owning a firearm, but requiring more bureaucracy and government the control to give us our weapons worries us.
Before we know it the institutions that license our firearms will be underfunded and undermanned, preventing people from getting their firearms in a timely manner, discouraging gun ownership but hiding behind the veil of "but u have a way 2 get guns XD"
Before we know it, absurd requirements may be present, including but not limited to adding a tax stamp, "fee" of some kind, difficult training courses, imagine needing to be able to fire 1moa(1 inch groups at 100 yards) for "dangerous assault weapons." or absurd tests about firearms knowledge not relevant to safety
the wording of "common sense" sounds nice, that's why those words are used, but there are major concerns, i can say common sense to get rid of the race with the most criminals aka kill niggers but that's pretty extreme anyway you cut it, using the words "common sense" sound nice though; there are many instances where laws are named something to sound good but are very misleading.
If there is an agenda to stop weapon ownership, add some steep fees, difficult(unrealistic for safety concerns) tests to take and understaffed/funded facilities/tons of bureaucracy. the majority "gun violence" is suicides or certain crimes. do you think the suicidal / homicidal are going to be appealed to with "common sense" laws? there is more at play in the US than just gun ownership. if you reduce car ownership, you will see less car deaths; yet why haven't other nations done so i wonder?
>>71718709
Firearms deaths includes suicides, so actually firearms killed more people than traffic accidents last year in the US.
>>71718714
I AGREE!!! but seriously there are a FUCKTON of idiots!!
>>71718701
>comparing fucking seatbelts laws to the right to own guns
wew lad
Plus, last I checked, you don't go to prison for not wearing a seatbelt.
>>71718711
How do you legislate and enforce knowledge? Sure, 'require' gun owners to keep guns in a safe, but how do you enforce that? How do you know for sure that that firearm is in a safe at all times? How do you keep an owner from taking a gun out of the safe and keeping it by his bed? How do you legislate and enforce that without turning into 1984?
>>71718717
And it isn't the government's job to protect those people from themselves. This a free country, and you have the freedom to figuratively and literally shoot yourself in the foot.
>>71718716
USA: proving time and time again that the only thing that kill Americans is other Americans. Wars? Fuck that noise. Other countries can't step to us.
>>71718719
It works here though man, different country, I get it, I do, but it does work here.
>>71718701
seatbelt laws only apply to public roads, thats not a fair comparison. A fair comparison would be mandating that you keep your car keys in a locked safe when at home (read: a private location).
>>71718717
You're right. We should ban all guns for everyone because of retarded parents.
Sorry, but that is about as arguement-from-emotion as it gets.
>plus, letting young kids have access to firearms unsupervised is already illegal.
>>71718711
Penalty call for use of emotional rhetoric.
>>71718654
Civilians can't register new machineguns anymore, so an M16 that would have a market value of about 800-1000usd now has a market value of 20000-30000usd because of artificial scarcity.
It's basically class warfare.
Also, in 1934 when the NFA was written, 200usd was an obscene amount of money, a silencer that costs maybe 7usd to make at the time now required a massive magnitude of that, the NFA was for a long time a defacto ban on certain items for anyone but the wealthy.
>>71718704
as an European, I can tell you you did not do good AT ALL. Your gun laws are much worse even when compared to our already bad laws here in Yuro, and that says a lot about your gun laws
>>71718724
Thats not what I said and you know it.
>>71718716
CDC statistics include:
>suicide
>individuals shot by law enforcement
>and individuals shot in self defense
which of these is firearms being used in a violent matter? while the incidents include the use of firearms, to group them in with firearm deaths is stupid
suicidal people will kill themselves with or without a firearm, just look at japan or south korea or china
individuals shot by law enforcement may be in possession of a firearm, but their actions are going to be a different statistics, law enforcement shootings shouldnt be grouped in with "gun violence" provided the shooting is justified and neither should legitimate self defense
>>71718717
>>71718718
Only if you don't pay the fine then fail to show up in court a few times. It's happened in more than a few states.
>>71718727
Please Elaborate?
>>71718725
Alright. Faircall.
>>71718722
I didn't ask if it works. Your country has 7% the population of ours, and even less firearms.
I don't care what works in Australia. I asked how do you enforce and legislate it. You didn't give me an answer because you know that the only way to do so is a massive infringement of rights. Get fucked.
>>71718732
even eurocucks can go buy a semi auto rimfire, too bad aussie shitposters cant
>>71718716
yep, but you were being deliberately misleading. If guns were illegal, it is reasonable to assume that many would have found other ways to kill themselves.
The number of actual homicides is significantly lower. 11,000 deaths in a population of over 318 million.
You should probably get off /k/ if you don't like guns, they aren't going anywhere.
>>71718733
not to mention that illegal firearms manufacturing of actual automatic weapons is a problem is ausfuckia
>>71718701
What, no, the seatbelt stops you from going out the window
>>71718730
Lets say for instance, that your idiot neighbor Cletus, leaves his shotgun out, and then his kid shoots your kid, wouldn't it have been better if your idiot neighbour kept that gun in a safe?
>>71718733
Ill tell you how they do it here in AUS, to give you an idea.(I know you don't agree but ill tell you anyway)
There is a firearms registry (which I know you hate the idea of) and anytime a new firearm is purchased, the police must come and inspect where it is kept, also, ammo must never be kept in the same place. Also, they can inspect your gunsafe at anytime (with 24 hours notice, which is pretty fucking stupid)
Now, obviously that wouldn't work in the USA, but it works here.
>>71718729
Up to 90% of non-successful suicide attempts do not result in an second attempt.
> Psychological autopsy studies of suicide: a systematic review. Psychological Medicine. 2003
The accessibility of firearms is a significant risk factor for successful suicides
>Household firearm ownership and rates of suicide across the 50 United States. J Trauma. 2007
Methods of suicide largely influence the success of attempts.
>Suicide intent and accurate expectations of lethality: predictors of medical lethality of suicide attempts. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology. 2004
>>71718739
>Lets say for instance, that your idiot neighbor Cletus, leaves his shotgun out, and then his kid shoots your kid, wouldn't it have been better if your idiot neighbour kept that gun in a safe?
Sure, but thats his responsibility, not mine, not the governments, and I'd sue the pants off him.
>>71718739
that's fucking retarded.
great waste of police resources.
also, everyone can't afford a safe unless they are cheap as shit there, I don't know the whole firearms market.
what can you guys own anyway?
slingshots?
>>71718741
Unfortunately, there are way to many Cletus's.
there should be so speed limit either, but too many fucktards cant drive.
>>71718583
>Also, not looking for a flame war, just an actual conversation.
>Australian
>anti-fun
YOU ASKED FOR THIS!!!
NOGUNS GET OUT!!!!!
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!!!!!!!!!
RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>71718735
You're shifting my point. My point is that firearms remain a health and safety issue in the US and that it is not being adequately addressed. Other countries do it without banning guns. There are still guns in Canada and Australia and England, there are just fewer guns and more regulations around their purchase, storage, and use.
>>71718742
Anything we want, just no Full-Autos.
And yes, it is an expense, but thats the price they put on safety.
>>71718732
In Australia...
>pump action shotguns are banned (but not lever action shotguns or bolt-action shotguns, or for that matter pump action rifles)
>silencers are banned
>airguns of any type are restricted, as is paintball
>body armor is illegal
>carrying a knife is illegal
>pepper spray is illegal
>fortifying your house is illegal
>>71718743
there really aren't
people don't just leave their guns out, unless they live in the backwoods.
and if you do, the kids around you are almost guaranteed to know not to fuck with guns.
if your kid is so retarded that he just picks random shit up and starts fucking with it, you need to parent better.
>>71718745
>firearms remain a health and safety issue in the US
how?
I mean, seriously.
at the end of the day its a mental health issue, not a firearms issue.
if I was out to kill people and didn't have guns, I could make napalm.
I could make mustard gas, I could make bombs.
hell I could just stab people.
violent people will always find a way to be violent.
>>71718739
Ok, so lets say I keep all my guns out of my safe. Police say we're inspecting tomorrow. I put my guns back in my safe.
How the fuck does that do anything?
I'm sitting here with a loaded revolver on my desk, a loaded 1911 on my dresser, a loaded CZ-82 on my bed. Nobody has gotten hurt. I am rather carefree with my guns. If I have kids, I'll keep them locked up.
I live by myself and the people that do come over aren't retarded. Guns do not go off by themselves.
>>71718746
I thought you guys couldn't have semi autos, and that lever and pump actions are under attack right now.
>>71718740
discussing suicide is a completely different ballgame. Some people believe in the right to suicide. Not that I believe that.
The reason I don't accept suicide is a valid reason for banning guns in the U.S is because of pic related. Our suicide rates are lower than many nations where guns are illegal.
>>71718745
>There are still guns in Canada and Australia and England
They ban the shit out of a lot of guns and self-defense laws are massively stacked in favor of perpetrators, not victims.
>>71718719
Same way a lot of other H&S laws get enforced without regular inspection. Accidents happen, there's an investigation, charges/fines/penalties are imposed, insurance companies stop paying for damages, etc. Not everyone will do it voluntarily and immediately, but after a few years most people will. There's also the idea of building mandatory safety training and examinations into the licensing process, like Canada does.
>>71718732
let me be short and concise: I can own fully functional semiauto AK47s and ARs in my country, as well as pistols and revolvers of any kind. Weapons made before 1899 and their functional replicas don't need any permit, although the police needs to be notified of their purchasing.
Sure, all of the above come after a tonne of paper work and dealing with hostile police fuckers that try to discourage you, but it's LEGAL, therefore my right.
P.S. my country has little to no gun crime
Ausfag here.... Can someone please adopt me?
I like my funs but the rest of this fucking country is brainwashed into thinking everyone with a gun is some crazed Adam Lanza wannabe
Fuck this gay earth
>>71718751
But there are still guns and far fewer deaths and injuries from guns.
>>71718755
great, you only somewhat curbed the problem and pissed off a large portion of your nation, and fucked over the capitalism and all those glorious tax dollars you could've got from unbridled gun sales.
well fucking done.
>>71718750
I'm pretty sure you're the only one in here talking about banning guns. I've been working this from a health and safety/common sense angle. Assisted suicide is another issue entirely and, as mentioned, most people who make one failed attempt do not go on to make a successful one.
>>71718757
holy shit, stop with the emotional appeal of "muh common sense"
just admit that you want guns to be heavily restricted or banned and then we can move on.
also, see
>>71718748
guns are not the issue, mental health is.
>>71718757
suicide attempts are cries for help
if u wanna die ur gonna find a way to do it
fuck you can just go to the pharmacy and pickup a couple different bottles of pills on the shelf
>>71718753
>>71718753
>it's LEGAL, therefore my right.
that's like saying it's legally considered your right to kill people because in some circumstances and if you practice a certain profession you can kill people with little to no repercussions. but that's beyond the point, because what is legal has fuck all to do with your rights, because laws don't write rights. rights are unconditional, can not be granted or revoked, they're not privileges.
>>71718757
pretty typical. back-pedaling.
Also, you keep mentioning these "common sense" laws. Please enlighten us.
>>71718583
In the case that you're not trolling, but you probably are; I'll continue anyway.
It has been determined that every man has the God given right to defend himself and by default, has the right to access the tools necessary to keep him and his family safe. This includes, but is not limited to, firearms.
I believe most would be supportive of background checks and other means of violence prevention, myself included, if we knew the government to be a perfect organization.
That dream of a utopia has been destroyed again and again proving that, just as you may not trust another man to not bring harm against you, we can not ever put absolute faith in any organization to do the right thing.
The second amendment protects all of our other rights as put forth by the constitution. The only rights that a man truly has are the ones he can take for himself.
This is why the production, transit and sale of means to self defense must remain free and uninhibited. With any liberty, there will be some that will abuse it, but those cases are limited in number. We could largely prevent violence in our fine nation if we created economic growth and job opportunity, delivered true education about drugs and alcohol, better prepared our young people for a place in the world and made more efficient the distribution and allocation of public aid.
Those ideas have proved too difficult for most and, instead, it is easier and more beneficial to blame an inanimate object for social issues and the problems in our society.
I hope this helps you understand, OP. You may trust your government, but we don't.
We never will as we know better than that.
>>71718583
It's rather simple, OP. Maybe if you knew how to do math and basic research on crime rates, you could answer your own obviously slanted and loaded questions.
>>71718756
Have you done the math on this? Do you know how much it costs when somebody dies prematurely? Coroner services, insurance payouts, lost tax revenue (both from income and sales taxes,) survivor benefits, administrative fees, grief counseling, law enforcement costs, legal fees, etc. Generally speaking, it's better and less expensive for people to keep on living and not get killed/injured.
>>71718764
that only affects the state when your medical system is socialist.
shit happens, people die, and costs are incurred in that process.
deal with it.
>>71718763
Aww, someone saved muh stats.
I posted it up above a bit ago.
>>71718764
>grief counseling
holy shit why do you stupid fuckers pay people to tell you it's ok to not be a man
>>71718761
Mandatory safety training/licensing, safe storage/transport requirements, screening of applicants for history of suicide/mental health issues. The Canadian process is a pretty good example.
>>71718764
>it's better and less expensive for people to keep on living and not get killed/injured.
actually its not at all
old people take up the vast majority of health expenditure all while contributing nothing to society
>>71718768
and how much is that system gonna cost?
and how much will that inhibit the free market, creating less tax revenue?
also, safes/safe storage is fucking expensive, and I'm not spending 2 grand on a safe to lock up my 200 dollar gun because of some retarded law.
>>71718760
ok, a bad choice of words on my behalf, I didn't mean what you thought I meant, after all, I'm not an english native speaker.
the main goal of my post was to elaborate on why aussie gun laws suck
>>71718769
Generally speaking. Might as well quote the whole thing, and most of them do contribute to society when they spend their pensions/savings and stimulate the economy, or volunteer.
>>71718766
Tis gud sauce, my man
>>71718768
>safety training
Does fuck all, as proven by cops daily.
>storage/transport requirements
You mean the storage laws literally NOBODY follows because they can't enforce them? Also nobody is put at risk from a law abiding citizen carrying an ak next to them in their jeep.
>screening of applicants for history of suicide/mental health issues
"History" is the clear problem here. So many people do and say stupid shit and get put on depressants, or worse, try to kill themselves. You can't take away someone's god given rights because they might have at some point been a bitch.
>>71718770
Well, nobody's done much research on that for the US, but based on other countries who've done it you'll save more in the long run. 2 grand for a gun safe? Sounds like there's plenty of tax revenue to be had there. Other systems have required that the firearm have something like a trigger lock, or the bolt removed and locked up. Got $20? I'm confident the American economy would survive.
>>71718583
>common sense
>4 months to obtain a license
>trying to ban lever action shotguns for those with 4 months
>cant even buy a 10/22
>COMMON SENSE
fuck off our laws are terrible
>>71718775
trigger locks do fuck all.
seriously, you can just jiggle one off with a screwdriver.
oh, and what's to stop me from just taking the bolt out and leaving it next to the gun?
the cops may come, but I just say I forgot.
or, in a home defense scenario, I have to run around like a retard to 3 locations to get my gun operable and loaded.
and by then, I'm probably already dead, statistically speaking.
>>71718768
How do you feel about the 480,000 deaths caused by smoking and 88,000 caused by alcohol consumption?
>>71718772
>le trickle down maymay
>>71718777
Also, in those countries, using a gun in self-defense is prison time, yo.
>>71718778
Smoking and alcohol consumption are both going down in the US and it has a lot to do with public education of the risks involved without banning the products outright. A similar approach can be taken to reduce the number of firearm deaths and injuries. In fact, as a health and safety issue this a fundamental counterpart to reasonable laws and regulations, much like alcohol and tobacco usage.
>>71718775
who the fuck does a trigger lock benefit? I don't have kids. Why should I have to buy a safe and 20 trigger locks because some retards with kids don't lock their guns up?
If my mom had to buy a $2000 safe for my first single shot .22 rifle when I was a kid growing up, I can guarantee the answer would have been no. That kind of BS actively prevents lower income people from ever getting into firearms, disenfranchises them from a right.
I think the biggest issue here is that owning firearms is not a right to you. You have the privilege to own whatever the powers above you determine is cucked enough to trust the plebs with. Here, we have the right to own firearms, we have had that right for over 200 years. To say that we should implement a system that actively infringes on those rights is infuriating.
>>71718600
woah wth is up with that assault graph? is that around superbowl or something?
>>71718781
You're right, I totally forgot about the safety course I had to go through to get my alcohol consumption license! Good thing I have my liquor safe and bottle locks to keep the kids I don't have out of my booze! Thank you papa government for allowing me the privilege to consume beer (under 2% ABV of course)!
Aussie OP is still bluepilled, everyone.
>>71718778
That doesn't happen to kids at school, though.
>>71718784
It's definitely more a matter of educating people generally about it. If people weren't so afraid of guns and learned about them, it might at least limit negligent discharges in houses and keep a few kids alive. Maybe wouldn't stop murders but it's something people should talk to kids about.
>>71718784
But I do love the idea of an alcohol consumption license and safety class. We should definitely start that up to keep drunk teens from killing themselves driving.
>>71718786
what if we allowed teachers who had a CCW license and a CC gun, and all the teacher shit to carry a gun in school?
they would have a safe in their desk compliant with the law and if something ever went down, the teacher could defend their class.
>>71718787
guns need to be brought back into school teaching, but they need to be taught as if they were anything else.
we did archery in PE and it was great.
what about marksmanship?
>>71718782
...Why would she have bought a $2000 safe when other options cost much less?
You have a wide variety of rights...up to a point. Some of them are still debated and modified to this day, very few have actually stood unchanged in their interpretation in the last two centuries. You might recall that there was a section that defined a few different groups of people to be worth three fifths that of other groups. These things change to keep up with the public and private interests of the citizenry. It's unlikely that the 2nd amendment will be repealed in your lifetime, like the 18th amendment was, but the interpretation may change to allow for measures to reduce the number of suicides and unintentional deaths.
>>71718790
because a good safe that would be compliant with whatever draconian laws you come up with would be in the 2 grand range.
>>71718789
I agree, I was making a joke on the first response. Guns are so taboo now in most of the country and even the world that educating students or anything of the sort on guns would just cause so much backlash from parents.
>>71718789
Too many school shootings.
>>71718793
I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
we did archery, nobody ever went robin hood on the teacher.
>>71718791
So, you're just making stuff up to fit your argument.
>>71718786
>we should keep alcohol and tobacco legal, but not guns, because think of the children
And there goes any shred of credibility you had. You aren't arguing from any logical standpoint, you are arguing from emotion. It's not about saving the most lives possible, it's about muh feels.
Besides, if there weren't gun free zones, those sorts of tragic incidents would happen far less often.
>>71718794
Yeah but people don't think like that. You teach kids archery or shotgun shooting people are going to make illogical connections
>>71718794
Turned into a liability issue for most schools.
>>71718796
I was being sarcastic....
>>71718799
this whole thread is b8, friend.
>>71718795
no, that's where the market is at on safes. cheap safes and lax laws will not do anything to help your retarded cause, they are useless.
>>71718798
here's what I figure we do.
in elementary school, introduce them to bb guns.
red ryder would totally be on board with this
also introduce them to gun safety and the basic concepts.
in middle school, out come the 10/22s.
start focusing more on marksmanship but also nail in the concepts of safety. this stage goes on until you are a junior in high school.
after that, the larger calibers come out.
.223-.308 rifles are being used, with longer ranges and precision shooting being focused on.
>>71718800
I just need something to do at 6am
>>71718602
ausfag here
had to get a P226 with threaded barrel because the non-threaded barrel version goes under barrel length restrictions.
How barrel length restrictions make guns any more or less dangerous I have no fucking idea
just one of the MANY restrictions that dont do anything and never have
>>71718801
in nordics we must have a safe, it has to be approved, they cost 150$ and upwards.
they wont stop hardcore burglars with alot of time, but it will stop your kids from shooting themselves, it introduces a couple of steps to snapping and shooting up your family.
your 2 grand safe wont stop dedicated burglars with time anyways.
>>71718786
Neither does shootings.
Do you know how rare that is?
>>71718804
Burglars don't even steal legal guns in Scandinavia because there's such a ready supply of illegal guns.
Whenever burglars break into gunsafes, it's because they think you might be keeping money or other valuables in there, they almost never ever steal the guns.
One guy had his entire safe stolen and it was found lying open on the side of the road with all the contents inside.
>>71718583
We have common sense gun laws. What you are asking is to gun rights what asking why you are against diversity?
We have guns, but much more importantly we are allowed to use them if we have to. What you are asking is why are we allowed to be the ones that deside how and when we can use a gun. Because the ugly truth about all gun control is that as soon as you take away enough of our gun rights you take away our right to defend ourselves at all. In short fuck off shall not be motherfucking infringed ya cunt.
>>71720636
That image triggers me.
>>71720636
Kinda funny that in the UK criminals stab and shoot people all the time even when guns,knives and even assault sticks are under tight government control.
How is it possible that criminals do not obey the law? oh wait...
WHAT THE FUCK ARE THESE UNKNOWN IDS?
>>71718583
My freedom
My safety
To revolt
To defend when invaded
Because they're fun as hell
I have seven guns
>>71722570
The guns criminals use here are from latin america and unregistered
>>71718583
Nice try aliens you aren't getting our gun secrets earth is full fuck off
>>71724821
how is it possible? I thought unregistered guns are illegal.
>>71724610
The ayliens are here to take our guns don't tell them anything
>>71724872
I don't know, unregistered mexicans are illegal too but they're also here and they deserve welfare.
>>71718583
Why was this moved to our board. This makes me uncomfortable having all these aliens. I don't like illegals. We need a wall. They're killers, they're rapists and some, I assume, are good people.
>>71724610
the thread was moved here from /k/
since /k/ doesnt track flags the system interprets the missing data as unknown flags
>>71724990
>I don't know, unregistered mexicans are illegal too but they're also here and they deserve welfare.
Why do they deserve welfare? Is welfare not meant to be as a protection or a safety net for those who pay taxes and build the country to protect them in case they end up unemployed or disabled etc?
>>71718610
>But in the United States, the first reason for the 2nd Amendment is to allow the people to protect ourselves from our government. We must inherently mistrust government not because those in government are bad but because power tends to corrupt even the finest among us.
See fucks like you spew all this bullshit about how you need to protect yourself from the government, and the niggers .. but yet you vote for idiots like Trump, and elect stupid ass crooked politicians that fuck you over and over ruining the economy.
>inb4 dumb ass liberals ruin everything
Look at all the red states, with right leadership who cut cut cut taxes and look at how well those states are doing. There economies are trash.
Guns do NOTHING to protect you from BIG GOVERNMENT. And you brainwashed loonies think guns are going to save your ass when the economy is in the dump, and you ain't got a fucking job, and your family is starving.
>BUT MUH DISARMAMENT
>>71718583
>common sense gun law
>>71718587
Because you cannot use the registered gun for it's purpose, defense
>>71725180
All poor peoples of the world deserve welfare and to live in developed countries.
Have some fucking empathy you shitlord.
