Can someone red-pill me on why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?
All of the reasons I've seen in the history books and the major sources online make Japan seem delusional. Certainly they weren't that stupid, right?
>mad about Roosevelt's Embargo
>wanted to be the strongest naval power in the world
>thought America wouldn't engage after WW1
>thought they could take on America AND take over Asia simultaneously
These reasons are either delusional or stupid for reasons that are self-evident.
TORA TORA TORA
>>71680962
It was a first strike in a guaranteed conflict. In order to keep its industrial machine running Japan needed the resources in south east asia but to get there they first had to go through the US owned Philippines. Knowing the US wouldn't play ball with them aftee the US embargoed them they knew a war was inevitable. So they struck first and tried to do a one hit K.O. knocking out all of the pacific fleet would mean they could sail up to california and alaska unopposed but they failed.
>>71680962
The US was strangling them with an oil embargo. They only had about 3 weeks worth of fuel left for their navy when they attacked. Their diplomats had been snubbed and sidelined.
Go find this book and read it.
>>71681640
My best bet was they were gonna hold the hollywood jews hostage and watch america bend over.
>>71681640
what about all of our other naval bases not at Pearl Harbor?
>bawww why won't the USA trade with us, we need to genocide the Chinese
>>71681895
None of those bases had the mojority of the pacific fleet and didnt base aircraft carriers. The fact our carriers weren't there when the japanese attack was the only thing that saved us on that front.
>>71680962
Seems the only mistake the Japanese made was underestimating how the US would regroup and retaliate. Other than that attacking Pearl Harbor was a good plan. Can imagine what would it be like if Japan attacked today, the damned SJWs would never let us hear the end of it if we dared to fight back, we'd all be speaking Japanese within a year.
>>71681640
Wouldn't they have succeeded if the US didn't crack their encryption prior to midway?
>>71682504
>The fact our carriers weren't there when the japanese attack was the only thing that saved us on that front
Citation? We still had an air force and naval airplanes and could produce ships at the fastest speed in the world.
>>71682519
there's a growing sentiment in the sjw community that the atomic bombs were unnecessary and grotesque
they cite research from some historian that says the soviets caused them to surrender and that we knew it was going to happen but wanted to flex our muscles
>>71680962
The US did everything it could, without being blatant about it, to goad and provoke the Japanese into attacking. They did this so they could have an excuse to get involved in World War 2.
>>71682849
this is kind of what I thought was the case
But did Japan really think they could win? I figure their leaders must've been talking with US leaders through closed channels to plan it. This could explain why the aircraft carriers weren't at PH.
Burger Navy here. The meme reasons are basically true.
>>71681640
>knocking out all of the pacific fleet would mean they could sail up to california and alaska unopposed but they failed
That was not really on the Japanese radar, though Americans were paranoid about this. Japan simply wanted primacy in the Pacific and the US fleet the main obstacle.
>>71682519
>Talking about a historical event actually civilly.
>Manages to bring up SJWs just for the fuck of it
Relax, kid.
Its too fucking delusional that I can't even comprehend. It's like they WANTED to get nuked.
>>71682504
I think Freemason Hirohito was ordered to attack Pearl by the Black Pope of Rome, to bring Masonic America and Mason FDR into their second big Eurowar.
The Japs were ordered not to touch these so the fleet could sail into pointless island warfare right away, the Pacific war was brutal, all the better because they were all heretics anyway.
>>71680962
The strike on Pearl was intended to give the IJN breathing room to take the Philippine Islands, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, and Taiwan. In that regard it was successful. If Nagumo had carried out a third strike against Pearl's harbor facilities it might well have prevented American victory at Midway a year and a half later.
Of course the President and the Secretary of the Navy were well aware of the Japanese plans and deployed American forces in a way to prevent damage to carriers yet cause enough of a public outrage to end American isolationism because they were satanic jew puppets itching for a reason to go to war against Hitler. Within hours of the attack on Pearl Harbor the American Navy began actively hunting German U-boats in the Atlantic prompting Germany to declare war a few days later.
>>71680962
Or better question why didn't they finish the job, instead they just kicked the hornet's which in turn nuked them
>>71680962
they thought they could occupy Hawaii in hopes of starting peace talks, and they could have done it if it wernt for the battle of midway
>>71684314
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgDpBx6JoMQ
>>71680962
They were already taking over Asia dipshit
>>71680962
It's pretty simple
>Wanted to conquer Philipines
>Philipines is closely tied to America
>Wanted to conquer Shanghai
>Shanghai full of westerners
>Well shit, they're gunna fight us anyway, better take out as much of the US's Pacific fleet as we can
>Pearl Harbour Go!
>Wait where the fuck are their aircraft carriers?
>>71681755
U.S was Saudi Arabia in that time period, too. Suprised the japs still had oil left when Pearl Harbor rolled around.
Japan like Nazi Germany, believed america was decadent and unable to fight a real war against a 'determined' and 'courageous' foe.
>>71682665
American naval planes at the time of Pearl Harbor didn't have the operational ranges to make retaliatory strikes against the Japanese possible without aircraft carriers. And yeah, the Japanese really underestimated American manufacturing capabilities.
>>71680962
Yamamoto wanted to take out American aircraft memecarriers but they weren't there (he has been in America and probably knew what power wields naval aviation).
The admiral who executed the attack failed to destroy the ship repairing facilities, fuel storage facilities and submarine pens because he had a hard-on on sinking the biggest ships (the battlecruisers) which most of them were salvaged and saved anyway after the attacks.
And the most idiotic things Japanese did was attacking America without declaration of war, which was actually received by the Americans only after the Pearl Harbour attacks.
>>71684716
>Suprised the japs still had oil left when Pearl Harbor rolled around.
The timing was dictated by the oil. They tried diplomacy until their oil reserves hit the red line, then they attacked.
Sneak Attack! that's why. i mean, c'mon
>>71680962
because we pretty much begged them too. we cut off their supply of steel, then stationed 1/3 of our fucking fleet withing striking distance.
U.S wanted to enter the war so we were doing things to try and get the japanese to attack us for example we were freezing their bank accounts and stoppef supplying oil. Roosevelt wanted war so this is how he was going to do it alongside his famous fireside chat. They had actually arranged the planes to form circles for easier targets. All newer equipment was being "tested" so they used the rest for scrap to build an even bigger fleet.
>>71680962
>thought they could take on America AND take over Asia simultaneously
They hoped that they could sucker punch the US, make some headway while they were recovering and then sue for peace. Really they had to declare war on US because with the US oil embargo they would run out of oil eventually and would lose even if the US didn't intervene
Yamamoto himself said he'd be wining victory after victory for a year after the war began, and that he couldn't do shit after that
Also on the day they were attacked the soldiers could either go to church or sleep in which is very strange to just completely shut down a military installation completely like that.
>>71680962
America stopped supplying them oil for their conquest of manchuria and the Philippines. Simple familia
>>71683994
/pol/
never failing to bring weapons-grade retardation into a discussion
>>71680962
They were war-crazy. Germany was doing his thing, as was the other countries. Japan was like, "Dude... we want to do something too!"
TL:DR is, yes they were that fucking dumb.
Remember that roughly 100 years elapsed from Japan's emergence out of an isolationist feudal warlord government cocoon (meiji) to the beginning of WW2. That's not even enough time for all the old people to be dead yet, and ideas moved / evolved a lot slower back then.
Japan did a lot of things right. They were a true scourge upon the Pacific, easily the strongest nation out there, and if they hadn't made some really dumb moves, they arguably could have forced a stalemate and kept their gains. Their real drawback was a failure of ideology and strategy.
>>71683914
this is the next level 4chan that keeps me coming back lol
>>71686485
8/10 post, never thought of it from that angle. Though i do not agree with the stalemate. Only if Germany had much more success with Russia.
we knew it would happen before it took place
Sounds like you guys already have the answer. Japan pulled a similar maneuver against Russia years earlier where they won a naval battle and got Russia to leave them alone. They didn't expect a full-blown war. They though the US would back down after the attack.
>>71680962
Because of the oil embargo Japan needed to expand further, and would inevitably start a war with the United States. While Pearl Harbor didn't destroy the US Pacific Fleet, it did weaken it, and certainly could have been done better, but was a relative success.
Japan truly lost at Midway; bad leadership, and indecisiveness killed the Japanese Airforce's potential.
>>71680962
The Japanese were maddeningly stupid. They were not a Pacific equivalent to the Germans, who at their moral and strategic worst were still brilliant.
In planning the Pearl Harbor attack they depended on projecting East Asian thinking onto Whites. Their follow-up was to mismanage their industry and mothball their battleships, the best of which were calmly liquified by one or two small planes before properly seeing combat. Before that they had the bright idea of torturing and mass-murdering occupied populations, censoring vital information even for high commanders in the field, and refusing to promote or award their best performers.
>>71687044
That's simply not true, Hiro. Glorious Zhukov himself humiliated the Japs in Eastern Siberia and the Japs agreed to leave the Russians alone.
>>71685726
What's wrong?
Do you think the Japan didn't successfully take PI, Taiwan, HK, Malaysia, and Singapore in the days after Pearl Harbor?
Do you think the Yorktown would have played a role at Midway even if Pearl Harbor's drydock and repair facilities had been destroyed in Dec 1941?
Do you dispute that the USN activity in the North Atlantic didn't dramatically escalate December 8?
Do you dispute that FDR was not a jew puppet?
Which is it?
>>71687595
He's referencing the russo-japanese war and the battle of port arthur.
>>71687474
No, they were remarkably successful in their initial attack and subsequently they were able to sweep java and new guinea.
If there encryption system wasn't compromised, their feint at the aleutian islands would have allowed them to take midway and destroy american naval power in the pacific.
All they would have to do if there wasn't a freak espionage success would be to take the then undefended hawaii.
>>71688008
On first point my apologies.
On the other points read Tameichi Hara or Saburo Sakai. If aliens from outer space gave Tojo space technology, the Japs would lose and lose badly. All the encryption in the world can't help that technology and industrial capacity gap, and that gap came from idiotic leadership.
>>71686541
A Mongolian image board is the only place I could ever really post that, operating at that level and all.
Seriously, WW2 was fishy all around.
>>71688740
You can talk about the gap in industry or technology till your blue in the face, but it's not really relevant.
Unless you have some good way to explain why midway would have been victorious for the americans, without them knowing the japanese plan it's not relevant.
Once the pacific fleet was destroyed, hawaii is defenseless. Taking hawaii would ensure the only way station for an attack on japan america has is alaska. I think at that point it would be logistically impossible to recapture hawaii or transfer troops to invade japan from alaska, so there's not much america could do. It's just too logistically demanding.
The japanese would then have a freehand to capture all of indoesia, which would relieve their raw material demand, and allow them to fight the war on their footing.
TL;DR Technology doesn't matter if you can't logistically support it.
