Why is "gold-backed" currency touted as so much better than fiat currency? Doesn't the price of gold change all the time?
>>71585751
Because its 2016 ! http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/au.htm
>>71585751
It was the old scam, before fractional reserve lending.
Search Goldsmiths
>>71585751
>doesn't the price of gold change all the time?
>doesn't the price of gold priced in dollars change all the time?
>>71585751
It's not better. Alt-rights don't understand economics
>>71587057
Isn't that the same thing
>>71585751
The gold always goes missing.
>>71585751
gold-backing prevents runaway inflation since its pegged to a commodity. At least until a new gold vein is discovered.
It is just an attempt to restrict the fed from causing currency inflation.
>>71585751
When currency has to be backed by gold, you cannot create it out of thin air, so you can not create debt.
The system also becomes more simple and easier to understand.
>>71585751
The price of gold stays the same. The price of currency changes.
Silver currency masterrace
>>71588122
top notch economist right here...
>>71585751
you can transfer gold backed currency into gold
you can then use that gold for certain things
its not just a store of "value" but an actually commodity with industrial purpose
with fiat currency you cannot, its just make believe "lets all trust and play along" money.
the price of gold does change all the time, how is this relevant?
the price of currencies change all the time too
>>71588947
but my call of duty is $60 every year!
We should literally make our currency backed by black people. Think about it. Turn them into a commodity it will fix so many issues. They will be worth something.
>>71585751
its a meme created by bankers.
>>71589168
And paper money isn't LEAF BABY?
>>71585751
The idea is that gold is valuable to everyone and does not diminish.You have this stable metal that doesn't oxidize and is incredibly malleable. It's appearance is almost universally attractive, even cultures that didn't use it as currency such as Incans used it in art. It basically holds a meme value by being aesthetically pleasing but is also culturally enforced to be something associated with wealth.
It also has a load of practical applications, from circuitry to having some use with hearth medication.
So essentially, it's the idea that gold will always have value and will be used as a form of currency should shit collapse, something that can't be said for fiat currency.
When people say money should go back to the gold standard, what they're really asking is that money go back to being backed by a substance of worth, rather than a hypothetical idea of worth. The fact that gold has more applications than simply being currency is safer than fiat.
>>71585751
Said it yourself.
It's backed. Not an emergency currency with nothing behind it printed by a non federal branch.
The reserve is not federal. Fuck the reserve and fuck it's money
>>71589264
>The fact that gold has more applications than simply being currency is safer than fiat.
I'm fucking done with /pol/. Why am I wasting time reading stupid shit like this.
>>71585751
Because these people heard about the gold standard from ron paul instead of an economist. Gold is just as easily devalued as any fiat currency. Adam Smith wrote at length about such practices in his 'Wealth of Nations'.
>>71589538
Explain
The value of gold is constant. A gold dollar would buy a suit in 1900 and that same gold dollar will buy the same suit now.
>>71587227
Yes it is. The money is actually backed by something that has real world uses. Unlike the paper money we have now that is backed by absolutely nothing
>>71585751
Its not
>takes euros/dollars to africa
>buys Gold dirt cheap because muh niggers
>come back to us/uk
>sell gold
>nose grows twice its size
>hands become glued together
>suddenly im a market manipulater
>>71588999
How is this possible? Jews?
>>71589263
paper money controlled by banks is also a meme created by bankers.
>>71589944
It's really not. Something being backed doesn't make it necessarily better -- since the thing backing it is just as ripe for collapse.
The thing backing currency is just as fetishized as currency without backing.
There are pros and cons for both -- but I do get the feeling people like gold more because it's shiny.
>>71589650
Gold has actual uses in industrial fields.
It will always be a valuable mineral.
>>71585751
you have 1 oz of gold and a time machine
rome 189bc
new toga, new tunic, new belt, new sandals
NYC 2016
new jeans, new shirt, new reeboks, new belt
gold's buying power for goods doesnt really change, all that changes is the currency price number
>>71589944
Oil has real-world uses.
The stupidity in this thread is astounding.
I'd rather have a box of gold bars than a box of any paper currency in the world.
Why?
Because if the economy or government collapsed, eventually, the gold will be worth something again. Hell it would still have value just because people know it will have value again in the near future.
The only way gold will become useless, is if they discover a planet made of gold or they colonize mars and mine gold off the asteroid field. But we're centuries away from that.
The price changes, but gold can ALWAYS be melted down and fashioned into cool chains and medallions or shaved and put into bottles of Goldschläger.
You just can't do that with cash.
A gold backed currency fucks the poor over by only having having a certain amount of money which the rich hoard. We were having problems with this hundreds of years ago and now our population is 300 million.
>>71590503
Good goy, keep believing the government will collapse tomorrow without any warning. A scared goy is a good goy.
>>71590389
Jean + Shirt + Reeboks + belt = $1300
Lolwut
>>71590684
>he believes "hoarding" is bad
>>71590474
Oil is also a common consumable product with a definate finite source. Once it's gone it has no value. It's also very easy to inflate and deflate the market. That's why the oil sands in Alberta closed, the Saudis flooded the market with oil again, devaluing it.
While yes the same could be done with gold. However, most of the gold has been discovered on earth, and it's uses in the industry are limited. Electronics mostly.
>>71590389
>I have no idea what the price of an ounce of gold is
>>71585751
If the money is backed by something then that means that the government cannot just print more money. Whether you think that is a good thing or not is up to you. Do you want the government to determine the value of money or the markets? Austrian economists think a backed currency is a good thing and keynesian economists think it's a bad thing.
>>71585751
Because humans will always place value on shiney rare earth metals more than a country's ability to produce lead paint toys.
>>71589944
tulips have real world use, though mundane, and we all know how that one turned out. Gold has some more practical uses nowadays, but remember it was mostly used for currency and cosmetics beforehand (and still may be).
>>71585751
Ron Paul popularized the idea and it's been in the political discourse ever since. It's main benefit over fiat is supposed to be lack of constant inflation/devaluing of currency. You should read money mischief by Milton Friedman he's actually critical of gold if I remember right but it's a pretty good book about monetary policy in general.
inb4 >jew
>>71590833
Bad economics are the reason he's still a poorfag.
Keynes did more harm to the world by convincing everyone that saving money was a bad thing than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined.
>>71585751
It's more trustfull than the government
>>71587637
No. What he is saying is gold hasn't changed value. The dollar is what's fluctuating. So basically an ounce of gold has the same value in terms of purchasing power as it did in 1950/1900 etc. Its the dollar that has lost purchasing power.
>>71591060
milton says in "free top choose" having gold reserves for the sake of having them is retarded.
in times of crisis gold should be sold by the state rather than bought. he says trusting economist to know when to sell or to buy is a longshot.
>>71591063
I like to compare "bad" society that "hoards" and a "good" society that constantly consumes all available resources.
Which one is better able to survive a natural disaster like tsunami/earthquake??
See, liberals think they are God, they think they are in control of everything. They don't understand that saving could be the difference between the life and death of a society, not to mention that savings is the first step of economic growth in general. (that's where investments come from)
It can't be printed on demand
You can't print gold, so a nugget of gold you have today is going to be worth just as much as a nugget of gold tomorrow.
Except we all know that this isn't true because gold is mined out of the ground, but it happens a lot slower.
The problem with gold is what happened in the early 15th century, which was the European Bullion Crisis. Basically, there wasn't enough gold in Europe because all the mines had dried up and people kept buying things from the Orient with it, so the gold left Europe and ne'er returned. When gold is the currency and the amount of currency in circulation keeps dropping then the currency that remains becomes worth more. Textbook deflation, which as we all know is awful.
So gold really isn't more stable than any other currency, it's just out of the control of governments. Except even then, not really, because they can hold gold in reserve away from the market to be released as needed, creating an ability to "print" gold if they have to.
Meh.
>>71589944
The USD is backed by the US military.
If you try and trade a commodity in something other than USD (lets say oil for example) you get the shit freed out of you.
Saddam (euros), Ghadaffi (Gold), Assad(Rubles, pipeline blocking), all of them tried to rattle the USD's cage.
>>71591190
>>71592093
its wrong tho. every commodity value fluctuates, if you were to buy with it bread, you would get different amount each year.
you can pretend its value is fixed, but its much like having a planetary system with the earth in the middle.
http://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Consumer_Price_Index/HistoricalCPI.aspx?reloaded=true
see in 1976 an oz was worth 129$
in 2016 its worth 1200$. so difference of 930%
the consumer price index in 1976 is 55,600
and in 2016 its 236,916 so difference of 426%
the difference of the purchasing power of gold increased twice as much as the price of general goods. they are by no means tied in any way.
>>71588999
Maymays aside, it is kind of weird that new video games have been exactly the same price for over a decade.
>>71587943
You mean stealing peoples money?
>>71591190
Gold changes all the time regardless of dollars
>>71592093
Gold price changes all the time
>>71592203
>flag
disregarded
>>71592093
We all know deflation is good
>>71585751
Because the word gold is irrelevant. It's currency backed by something, eg gold vs currency backed by the collective imagination of the people using it. Fiat currency is worthless and all it takes is people losing faith in it for it to become worthless.
That's all there is. Faith.
>>71589094
underrated post
>>71589094
>Turn them into a commodity
pro sports and prison labor ...
>>71592203
>>71592371
Sure, but it's not the gold that's changing. There are 100kgs of gold today and there will be 100kg of gold in 10 years - the amount of gold is "fixed" in the short term, because you can't print gold.
The value of a gun will go up and down depending on how many there are and how many you need, and if guns are expensive you will need more gold to buy one gun, but that's not a fluctuation in the value of gold it's a fluctuation in the value of a gun.
>but what's the difference
Because when buying a gun you might need 1 unit of gold today and 2 units in ten years, but when buying butter you might need 1 unit of gold today and still only need 1 unit of gold tomorrow. The point is that because the value of gold is fixed the value of gold itself isn't going to change. The value of other things will change, altering how much gold per thing is required, but that's not a fluctuation in the value of gold.
>but value is just a measure of how many X you can get for Y, so by definition the value is changing
Sure, but using the term that way renders it meaningless. If suddenly there is only one bed left in the world what changed? The value of beds, or the value of literally everything on the planet relative to beds? Technically, both. But if we want to speak in a way that is useful and makes sense, then we refer to a change in the value of beds.
>>71592870
>because the value of gold is fixed the value of gold itself isn't going to change
the *amount* of gold
>>71590833
>>71591063
>>71591671
Having people save their money now isn't so much of a problem. Money in banks can be used for loans and whatnot. But back then with the gold standard there simply wasn't enough money because the rich had so much of it that the poor were fighting for a silver standard,because then at least they could have some money. The only problem now is people who don't put their savings in banks and keep it at home because that money isn't getting used for anything.
The gold standard is terrible for a couple reasons. Having your money tied to a rock that you cannot control is bad. Central banks cannot help in times of a depression, and have no handle on the economy. Inflation was a huge problem while we had the gold standard. Sure gold is relatively stable over centuries but for daily life it sucks. Also with a gold standard you cannot run a deficit. This works fine in Ron Paul wonderland where the U. S. government is paid for by tariffs and the fed lays in ruins. In the real world running a deficit helps us grow our nation. It's not hard to figure out the problems with a gold standard vs money we can control.
>>71592421
Kek
>>71592835
Don't forget the music industry
>>71589264
Well aside from this:
>>71589538
You are right.
>>71589650
Gold will always be valued. That is why gold backed currencies are good.
>>71592870
Can you or anyone explain how currency backed by gold would work exactly? Lets say a country has 100,000 units of gold. How do determine what that countries dollar is worth in gold units?
>>71585751
The best thing is to have more than just gold backing your currency.
>>71591063
>Capitalist world
>muhh saving is better than spending meme
If everyone saved there would be shit all growth
>>71592328
Gold is measured in USD mostly because our currency runs the fucking world.
Not for long with black lady on it but I'm hoping Trump can undo that.
>>71593164
Simple. Total number of dollars divided by units of gold = the amount of gold each dollar represents.
So if you have 100,000 dollars in circulation each dollar is worth 1 unit of gold. If you have 10 dollars then each is worth 10,000 units of gold.
>>71585751
Currency in general is a terrible idea. It makes trade better, but material-backed currencies can be speculated and fiat currencies are based only on easily crushed hopes and dreams.
>>71593023
Can you and Finland explain why having more use than just currency isn't safer?
>>71585751
The gold standard can't work with the limited amount of gold in the world. What the gold standard does do is place controls on inflation. What the government should do is nationalize the fed, instead of giving that power to banking industry insiders.
>>71585751
Reasons why gold is dumb:
Different countries had different values for gold.
Limited supply of gold would make an expanding economy impossible
It's a commodity and has it's own supply and demand problems
And the biggest one: you can't stop deflation with physical currencies.
>>71587943
>causing inflation
Yeah robbing my saving account
>you have to invest hurr
So the govt is forcing me to either invest, or be robbed.
>>71593314
Ahh I understand, if I had 200,000 dollars each dollar is just worth .5 a unit, and so on. Print 200,000 more dollars and the value is .25 a unit
Now I see why they switched it when there wasn't enough gold around or someone sold their gold off to other countrys. Less gold devalues the dollar without even contributing more dollars to the total.
>>71590684
>like the rich dont hoard now with fiat currency
Dumbass. When the govt causes inflation they rob the poor's savings accounts, the poor cant afford to not have any savings, since they need liquid assests on hand.
>>71593761
The sole reason we have intention inflation is to prevent any chance of deflation. Take an economics class.
Your savings account would actually be much worse is a deflating economy.
Stupid Fucks.
The problem is the declaration of what money is by a government. Wrong fucking argument. Let anything be currency and the things that should be currency will remain.
>>71592870
But isn't gold itself a commodity with a given demand? Gold is used in industry and jewelry. If an industry that uses gold suddenly explodes, the price of gold relative to other goods will increase. In that case, it seems silly to say that gold's value stayed the same and everything else decreased in value.
>>71593415
It is safer, although that by itself doesnt matter that much
>>71585751
>Doesn't the price of gold change all the time?
1 gold = 1 gold
>>71593269
I'm glad. Jackson's soul is released to fight evil once again.
>>71594027
1 dollar = 1 dollar
>>71592870
lets say that gold backed economy has an advantage over fiat based economy, and forget that the great depression happen in a gold backed economy.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21969100
there are 1.45T$ in circulation right now.
to back that in gold would require 1208333333 oz of gold to back up.
34255.5 ton.
the entire world mined gold is estimated at 171,300 tons.
so ~20%
the us share of world economy is 16%.
if every country was to do that, there would be no gold left.
>>71593099
We just picked gold as something valuable because it doesn't corrode, is relatively rare but not too rare, and we can make coins out of it easily. Gold, like anything else, only has value because we give it value. Before since it was actually used as currency there was a good reason we valued it so much but now it is used for jewelry and electronics. The gold meme can finally die.
>>71593656
If you dont want to be a functioning member of the economy, you can fuck off.
>>71593351
Never go full retard
>>71593761
Yes the 3% inflation rate or whatever we have is really bending the poor over
>>71594181
You can always count on the Jews to know their economics
>>71594181
Or you could revalue gold instead of pretending to be retarded.
>>71594181
The US monetary base.
>>71585751
Gold:
>sell it
>preserve it
>exchange it for paper notes
>melt it and make something cool out of it even when damaged still and always will be redeemable
>never rusts
>rare metal
>precious
>cultural value all over the world for centuries
>will always have value regardless of time and place
Paper Currency:
>can't sell it
>can't exchange it
>can't do much with it besides buying
>once damaged it's gone for good
You can still get a hamburger for a dime if you pay with a silver dime. You can still get a gallon of gas for a quarter if you pay with a silver quarter.
In 1964, minimum wage was $1.25, five silver quarters. Today those same 5 silver quarters are worth $15.72 (Fight For $15???).
>>71593966
Yes, technically, but the demand for gold is basically rock steady.
>>71594181
Then reduce the number of dollars. Or adjust how much dollars are worth until you have enough gold to back all the dollars. Take the total number of dollars, divide it by the total units of gold, and you're done.
I don't support a gold standard because I don't think it's necessary to take economic controls away from the government, but what you just mentioned isn't a problem except for the adjustment required.
![iur[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VZ58cZ5.jpg "iur[1].jpg")
>make money out of nothing
>still have national debt
How does that work?
>>71585751
Gottfried developed an idea where you can issue credit and can actually cause deflation and reduce debt. The power of wealth and of currency is through production. Increasing the number of money will cause inflation, the gold standard will stagnant the economy. Both do not aim to produce goods. Gottfried's plan was to use credit to expand production and use the goods to back currency. More food on the table, more jobs created, and wages increase.
>>71594480
In order to print money, you have pay it with more money, and that creates and debt.
>>71594480
Because resources aren't infinite and it costs money to make stuff and do stuff.
>>71593888
Thats a devils choice; forcing either condition is bad, as seen by our constant bubble bursts which hurt the regular people the most.
>>71594595
*more debt
>>71594257
>saving money isn't good for society
Yeah because debt is?..
>>71594635
No it's not... we've had steady inflation for decades and we're fine. The financial situations were all in specific markets and had nothing to do with currency issues.
Also deflation is MUCH WORSE than inflation.
>>71594480
Paying off one credit card with another, which people cant do, but governments can.
>>71585751
Because it's a meme.
>>71585751
Governments just can't print up more gold and then tell people it's valuable, like they can with fiat currency.
>>71594396
>>71594464
>>71594316
printing money is a problem, i dont say it isnt,
but you have nothing to gain from gold standard as long as you dont print dollars like a mad man.
>>71594257
im really new to this, but ty.
>>71585751
Yes. And the price of gold is unfortunately negatively correlated with economic activity: the lower the activity, the higher the price of gold.
Currency needs to be created all the time. People think of new goods and services and the US population is expanding, so we need more currency in the system in order for us to get payed for our work and buy shit with it; otherwise, trade becomes inefficient because people start trading in kind (I'll sell you 100 loafs of bread for that iphone) and people can't get loans to start businesses or other ventures. If you don't have enough currency, you get decreased economic activity due to people hoarding money and thus leading to higher interest rates; if you have to much, interest rates get too low, people spend way too much, and you create inflation.
To expand the money supply at a steady rate, which needs to happen like I said above, the government needs to get more gold or up the convertibility rate, so $2000 per ounce from $1000 per ounce for example. The latter doesn't make much sense, because it defeats the purpose of a gold standard if the government is just going to arbitrarily change the rates all the time.
So they can either mine it, which is time consuming, laborious, and expensive, or they can buy it off the market. Now, nobody in their right fucking mind is going to give you an ounce of gold if the market value is $3000 per ounce when you're just offering $1000 (if they payed the $3000 they'll be expanding the money supply by that, thus again defeating the purpose of a gold standard). Thus, anytime that gold prices are higher than the official convertibility rate, the government will be in quite a pickle. And the real problem is, that todays market fluctuates so much and have periods of such high variance, that the price of gold spikes, a lot.
So it will lead to situations where government can't acquire gold, and thus expand the money supply, in a recession. It's a recipe for disaster.
>>71594742
We are only "fine" because all the other large countries were being idiots along with us, and technological advances have luckily bailed out everyday people from bearing the brunt of these policies in more painful ways.
>>71594181
>forget that the great depression happen in a gold backed economy.
The great depression was not a currency problem. Money still had value. People with money could buy whatever they wanted. The problem was the banks shut their doors preventing people from accessing their money coupled with lots of people losing their jobs and hence not earning money.
The currency was perfectly fine.
>>71594257
We can give anything value lmao, but whether it keeps it value over time like gold does is a different thing.
Hitler's Germany went from the poorest country in Europe to the richest country by doing this one weird trick.
BANKERS HATE HIM!
>>71594745
I'm talking about government's debt not personal debt
>>71594480
>make money out of nothing
>still make people pay it back in taxes
>>71594879
Yes because nobody (who matters) will boycott gold or other things that are just necessary, and it wont corrode or spoil
>>71588122
YOu a Fucking geniUs !
>>71594009
As long as you can do shit with it that people would want it for, It will have value.
Fiat is paper with Linen in it (In america at least) and copious amounts of nickle.
>>71589094
So then black lives will actually matter?
>>71594798
Printing money hurts everyone but the printers and primary lenders who recieve it at ~0% interest rates.
>>71593164
So, let's say this is a modern country; let's look at Bretton Woods in the states. Gold was agreed upon as being worth 35 dollars by the government; give the government 35 dollars, and they'll give you an ounce of gold. As long as everyone trusts that the government has sufficient reserves to back the currency in circulation, all is well.
What eventually happened is that speculators on the currency realized that the reserves the United States could not really cover the circulated currency and thus began exchanging dollars for gold as fast as they could which reduced the amount of gold in reserve even more so until eventually the US government had to move the bar up for an ounce of gold to 40 dollars.
Gold backed currency is complicated on an international basis since the government is giving the right to issue currency rather than privately held reserves. In the US pre-fed, you would have bank notes issued by local banks which you expected to have the gold in reserve, and state/federal treasury bills which needed to have the gold in reserve to be legal currency.
Overall though, gold standard is a relatively shitty system for daily business as you risk
1. Deflation; essentially businesses cannot function due to a lack of liquidity available
2. Speculators on the commodity; if the gold is worth more as a commodity than as a currency, fully expect it to be stolen out of circulation.
3. Modern lending is completely incompatible with it. Money lending used to be done with the assumption that gold was finite, and thus interest rates were applicable. Banks historically could only make loans on gold that was over their necessary reserves. Today, if you were to require all banks to have a 100% reserve rate, you would have almost no credit in the economy.
>>71585751
Because if you have enough of it, you can swim in the coins like a bath like McScrooge or a pirate king
>>71594863
milton freedman writes the general reserve only made the depression worse by buying gold while the depression was in progress instead of selling it. by selling gold you would have reassured the public their dollars were viable, and gotten the cash the banks needed to pacify the public.
>>71594480
Because debt securities are very useful instruments.
Not only do you give a certificate to people to get free extra cash after a certain period of time but you also create a risk free security that all other debt securities can compare themselves to and a security that people can flock to in times of danger.
Those IOUs have more beneficial effects than what you think. And they aren't a problem unless you really fuck up your economy. Think about it, why would I care how much debt I have, if I could just grab my printer and print out a shit ton of money?
>>71594418
>Melt your monetary supply into something cool
These are the people who support the gold standard
>>71594480
Money is debt
>>71594863
The fed really couldn't do shit to help things like we can now, this is ne of the big problems with gold
>>71594697
>not having vast liquid assets = debt
>>71595085
We need to print money to keep up with the size of our economy
>>71595247
Paper bills are actually a lot better for this because diving into paper is so bad but diving into a mass of metal hurts
>>71585751
Isn't the idea of a metal currency like gold/silver to keep government financing in check? Gold is harder to produce and has a more stable market value than fiat, therefor the government can't just print dollar bills like today to pay for things. The idea of fiat was that it was supposed to be exchangeable for its gold equivalent at any time, but people trusted that their gold would be safe in the hands of the bank so they just kept their notes instead.
>>71595468
the economy isnt growing at the pace dollars are printed tho.
>>71595468
You're just not diving correctly. The fingertips and body angle are important during the dive to "slice" into the top layer, after the initial slice, you do a breaststroke to propel yourself downward while your nose provides the secondary slice into the deeper levels (Hebrew peoples have the advantage here)
Otherwise, yeah, you're gonna hurt yourself.
>>71595646
We still need to print them. Image if we still had the amount of money going around we did 100 years ago. We can't just decide "today is the day where we stop printing money" and expect things to work
>>71594922
But using that method you'll have another ever-increasing amount of inflation. Of course, this could take quite a while, but it would happen nevertheless.
>>71596058
im not saying dont print, im saying the current rate it very far from the current growth rate.
see >>71594396
Why does gold have value in the first place? seem pretty stupid :D
>>71586189
Is fractional reserve lending a scam as well?
>>71596246
Because it's near universally accepted as a form of currency that is able to withst... You know what? Just stop being a dindu, get literate, and read the above posts.
>>71596345
lol ok sir ill invest in gold sir thank you sir imma gud boy
>>71592203
Honestly my friends, imma trust the Jew on financial matters
>all these people investing in gold or money rather than stocks
>>71595035
Gold is worth 10x that (for arguments sake)
>>71596294
In a way, yes. Inflation in itself is acceptable for everyday business and arguably necessary as long as it is kept within reasonable bounds.
Fractional reserve lending allows inflation to occur, and the market to be flooded with cheap money as lenders are not required to keep reserves for all of their actual deposits.
>>71587788
Ayy
>>71596246
Because it's a scarce commodity which is demanded by nearly everyone.
Also historically it has been very important.
>>71596649
>investing
I love you goys
>>71596740
Inflation isn't a good or bad thing.
Too much inflation is a bad thing.
Constant inflation isn't inflation at all in the long run.
I do see your point, but I am still not understanding how it is a scam.
>>71596778
That could be said about a lot of things, perhaps we need to take a step back to see the bigger picture here.
Perhaps you should learn how the economy works, OP.
https://youtu.be/PHe0bXAIuk0
>>71596895
Well during the mercantile system when countries traded with each other they paid in gold. That's the main reason why gold is so important.
Water backed currency.
>>71594396
Not related to your graph as much but I still want to make this point. Be extremely careful when you use graphs like that, because time series of economic phenomena are bound to be exponential.
Example. Even if you have extremely low money supply growth for example, lets say 1% of 1% year after year, after enough time, the graph will always look like this.
It's just the nature of your change being percentage based rather than absolute.
One day the national debt will increase so much that the interest payments on that debt owed by the government to the central bankers for their fiat currency will be larger than any taxes could ever pay. The principle is already more than our grand children's children's children could ever hope to pay off, so we're just talking about interest payments here. The government will default on its debt, and the creditors will downgrade the government's credit rating, and the government will be unable to get anymore fiat currency from the central banks. The government will be unable to pay for anything, and will collapse, and society along with it. This is inevitable. Our financial system is unsustainable. This is the endpoint of usury. My guess is that the NWO and Jewish international banking dynasties are planning to use this crisis to seize power, dissolved national governments, and institute a One World Government.
>>71596867
Okay, so reasonable inflation in a fiat economy should be increases in money supply to match the growing wealth in an economy. In this way, money is correlated to the amount of wealth in a real economy.
When fractional reserve lending is allowed, it means that a bank can distance the money it lends from the reality it holds in reserve.
>So what?
A bank traditionally does not hold its own money. Banks typically now lend money an this is accepted in contract and thus bank deposits are insured to some degree. Older banks could only lend out of their profits without risking bank default/bank runs.
>So how does this cause inflation?
If a bank can lend money that it does not have in reserve, it can essentially create money on paper that does not accurately reflect the money it has. Thus, this creates another form of inflation which is then incentivized as banks can call upon the Fed to back up their reserves. So, it's bad inflation because it does not really correspond to any real oversight.
>>71596988
This is a great idea
>>71596988
>>71597265
Thanks for the explanation, anon. I completely see how fractional reserve is a scam which can potentially create high inflation.
>>71597123
>One day the national debt will increase so much that the interest payments on that debt owed by the government to the central bankers for their fiat currency will be larger than any taxes could ever pay.
No, because the debt is always balanced against GDP.
>>71596867
>Constant inflation isn't inflation at all in the long run.
U wot m8?
Sounds like Fed BS, 2% inflation each year is still inflation shrinking the value of every dollar in my bank account adding up year by year.
It's like people ITT don't even know what production growth is.
>historical Ag:Au ratio is 8:1
>currently around ~80:1
While you should never buy PMs as an investment, you'd be a fucking retard not to buy more silver than gold atm, although silver seems to have shot up the past few days so the train is literally leaving the station
>>71597509
If price level increases by 2% each year, and that is matched by an increase in nominal money balances (or wages in your case), there is no inflation.
In the long run, if prices increase but money balances don't, then there is inflation.
>>71597488
Unless you're Greece
>>71597673
Yfw bought silver at 25 bucks an ounce
Feels bad man
>>71594480
The people saying you'll just get into more debt are wrong. The real reason is because it would cause massive inflation.
>>71597488
Not always true.
In the EU that's 100% untrue.
When you borrow from foreign lenders, they don't give a fuck about your GDP
>>71598016
>Unless you're Greece
Well, they're retarded.
>>71592218
So due to inflation, they technically get cheaper eh?
>>71589094
>implying i want you to pay me with fucking niggers.
I don't want them even if they're only printed on the 20 dollar bill.
>>71597680
wages rising in perfect unison to price levels seems an extremely big assumption
Also unless people are retroactively paid the difference for what their income/savings was the last several years, to what it SHOULD now be in today's devaluated money - they are still at a loss.
And that is assuming inflation is 'managed'. I don't have confidence that it is truely managed to the exact percentage point despite what Fed folks like to claim
>>71598016
>Yfw bought silver at 25 bucks an ounce
Damn bro i feel for ya. Bought like 1500oz of metal in august-October with an inheritance check @ ~16/oz
Pic related
>>71598380
>...seems an extremely big assumption
Welcome to economics.
>I don't have confidence that it is truely managed to the exact percentage point despite what Fed folks like to claim
The Feds use the sacrifice ratio to counteract a recession/hyperinflation. Sometimes their number's don't add up, or adaptive expectations are different.
>>71598621
>bought useless metal
>instead of more ammo and land
>>71598782
Look at that picture again buddy, that metal is in a box that had 2k+ rounds of 5.45 ammo
>>71598884
did you miss the word "more"?
>>71598936
I'm pretty set with my saiga and remmington
>>71598621
Why didn't you give that money to a financial planner/or invest in the stock market?
>>71585751
What monetary policy could be enacted to maintain the value of gold? ban all mining of new gold around the world and keep the existing supply constant?
too ayyy for this thread
>>71599088
LOL
>>71599236
You're laughing but you're the one who lost in the end.
>>71598380
>wages rising in perfect unison to price levels seems an extremely big assumption
Depends on what type of firm you're employed in.
Now we're diving into research territory but usually large firms have proper HR departments that will always give its employees a COL increase while smaller less developed firms will not.
>>71599186
also, what impact would this have on the value of precious metals not backing currency?
>>71599332
I don't know how far deep you've gone into economics, but I'd recommend checking out the sticky-wages model. It's where firms/unions will agree on wages before prices.
Essentially, it's the employees/firms who decide the inflation rate.
>>71599186
Well, that's even worse. Deflation tends to work in spirals.
>I cannot afford to pay my workers for the week due to a lack of buyers on the market
>I cannot take a loan, as lenders lack the funds to lend at reasonable rates
>I must lay off workers
>Workers then cannot afford to buy goods
Seriously, deflation is much worse than inflation. Inflation makes savings worthless in the long run, deflation makes business unable to function.
>>71585751
you can't make gold.
you can print more bills.
>>71592218
>>71598266
>buy the DLC's!
>pay a little extra and you get CHAOS WARRIORS INCLUDED
>buy our season pass!
its no longer just $60
>>71592203
>See flag
>>71586189
>Look up an ancient profession
>>71590606
Loonshläger.
>>71585751
Yes, Gold's price changes but gold is much more stable than pure fiat.
>>71599461
Ye but then again, it depends on the type of contract. Devils in the details.
And workers have lost a lot of bargaining power thanks to the decrease in union membership, so I it begs the question if those contracts are really that binding anymore. Lots of state have at will employment as well. Seems to me that the labor market is less rigid in terms of wage setting. But then again this is all by my observation and I'll need to see the current research on the subject.
>>71599273
Dude, I was born in the soviet union. I only trust what's tried and true.
The reason i bought the metal was because I was already following the concept a few years by then. It felt safest. I'd only invest in markets if i was doing it actively myself and I had zero knowledge on FOREX or shorting and whatnot by that point. I saw anons make 5k into 50k in the months between aug-feb but good on them, they knew what they were doing. I don't trust my own wealth in anyone else's hands but my own. I'm not even a poorfag so its whatever.
Unless you have something more concrete than giving it to some faggot financial advisor so they can gamble you can fuck off.
I was more concerned about preserving the wealth of my relative than making money off of it
>>71599601
>not logging in on your buddy's account and splitting the cost of dlc between 10 ppl
I see your point though
>>71592203
Well, etfs went about it the wrong way.
I'm pretty confident there is more paper gold than actual gold.
>fort Knox is empty.
>All this arguing about whether gold backed currency is actually better than fiat
Okay, look. And I mean look, at what the rich & wealthy do with their dollars. Do they sit in a vault and swim in it like Scrooge McDuck? No, they purchase assets which will hold their value. Land, resources, businesses, et cetera.
Gold is a resource that has a history of holding value, preserves well, and is highly valuable. This makes gold a preferred asset since it won't go bad, will probably retain its worth, and is more convenient to carry about than barrels of oil.
Even so, people do not necessarily want to go about their lives carrying gold coins to purchase stuff. After all, breaking change for 1oz of gold can be a pain and it'd suck pretty bad to get robbed. So instead they would rather have a stack of "checks" which correlate to the amount of gold they have, which they can then use as currency. And the idea of a gold-backed national currency is that the gov't holds your gold while you make purchases with the gov't issued checks, which may (at least in theory) be redeemed for the appropriate amount of gold if you so choose.
In this way, with a gold-backed national currency the average person has the same assurance of asset ownership as the rich do now when they invest. It is not important that it be backed by literally gold per se, but the idea is to tie it to a stable asset so that the currency is also stable.
That's all.
>Inb4 "We've got an economic genius over here!"
>I already know I'm not, here's the tl;dr version: >>71587943
>>71600870
>No, they purchase assets which will hold their value. Land, resources, businesses, et cetera.
They purchase SOME assets.
The vast majority goes into investment funds which don't contribute to shit other than increasing their own wealth by speculating on shit.
>>71601215
b-b-but anon, I thought the wealth gets trickled down...
>>71601215
>The vast majority goes into investment funds which don't contribute to shit other than increasing their own wealth by speculating on shit.
Which they spend on... more assets and investment funds. Of course they don't spend literally every penny on assets, they need fluidity of wealth to actually do shit.
>>71601409
Shares you buy on the stock market aren't reinvested into the company, it's pure speculation.
If Rich Guy 1 buys $100 of shares in Company A, Company A isn't going to see a single cent of it
>>71586189
Yeah the Jews were totally behind the concept of using gold and silver coins as currency.
Fuck lol.
>>71594424
Spiked to 17 today, anon.
>>71598621
I dunno about America but in Australia if you don't get your gold bars stamped with a religious symbol the government is allowed to take it
>>71601515
>Shares you buy on the stock market aren't reinvested into the company
do you know why companies go public? it's so they can sell shares of the company in order to invest in future growth
do you know why some companies give stock options to employees?
>>71596118
How long? Let's say a country the size and makeup of the USA. Encourage private ownership of silver and gold as well as rebuild the crumbling infrastructure. Most likely a war or two.
How long, bro?
>>71594181
>tfw other jews are shilling gold for you so you dont have to
Thanks man, we should team up and shill penny stock some time.
what does being backed even mean? How do you back up your currency with gold? Does the issuer trade hid bucks for gold?
>>71601886
What? Elaborate please.
>>71594480
> How does that work?
I can work reasonably well as long as you don't start pretending government debt is relevant (ie. debt ceiling).
Rotating resource based currency based on energy commodities. Whatever energy commodity it currently is should always have a value between x and y, depending on the commodity. If it goes past those limits, the currency is then backed by the commodity that is within the x and y. The x and y can be changed to effect inflation/deflation.
The end result would make the most efficient energy the reserve currency.
This model only works as long as people need energy. If a country has no natural sources of energy, the work of its people would be their currency.
Poor nations get jobs, and rich nations finally make fusion viable.
>>71585751
I'm not expert on currencies (as in fiat as opposed to gold standard), but I'd say that although gold-linked currencies are more 'stable' than fiat, they can make running trade deficits a lot worse for your economy, which is bad news for developed countries that rely less on exports and are therefore more likely to have trade deficits.
>>71602419
The concept of paper money started as a bank note saying that you were owed an amount in gold.
>>71602604
Well it's just something my high school teacher said he did, he had all his gold bars stamped with crosses so his gold is considered rare and unusual and not up for grabs in an emergency. Just google gold confiscation or gold seizure laws probably
>>71588733
>a fucking star of david
>>71605094
>hoping for a technicality to protect you when gold is getting confiscated
i hope hes diversified
>>71605094
>Not burying your gold if it gets that bad
>>71591190
>>71592203
>>71592870
Where does supply and demand come in for gold?
Isn't it one of the rarer metals so it costs more, just like diamonds? But it seems like gold is finite.
Hell, even oil fluctuates but not because of the dollar.
>>71605521
>going to jail because you "lost" your gold
You know they put you in prison for that? You cant just lose your gold in a boating experiment, and if you have thousands of dollars worth of gold, they will do a search in your property for it using detectors.
Buy gold which has already been laundered, that's the only way to have gold without the negatives of being traced. If you have your own business then you've probably already run into launderers, you know, the guy who is always asking if you have anything gold to sell?
>>71589094
Jews will start coin clipping again
>>71586189
actually the scam was in the fact that the lenders noticed at any given point only a fraction of the gold would be called in, so they started diluting the paper to far past the actual amount of gold in reserves.
now of days fiat is basically debt. and the system will forever need to be adding more paper into the system until either it collapses and they reset to something fresh, or the people awake like before many times in history.
nothing is new in this world in terms of money, its all been played out before.
>>71606486
"Jackson could conquer the Bank of the United States, but he was helpless against such a massive wheel of cheese."
"By 1837 Jackson’s second term was winding down, and he wasn’t about to haul a two-year-old mountain of cheese with him when he left office. So he decided to make the famed fromage a featured player at his last public reception at the White House. It was an astute move; there’s nothing people love more than free food. The reception’s 10,000 visitors attacked the wheel of cheese with such fervor that the entire thing was gone within two hours."
>>71606098
We have security measures to prevent/detect this, now.
>>71594418
>will always have value regardless of time and place
It has no intrinsic value. Its the same as currency. Nobody wants gold when they can hardly get bread.
>>71605949
Smelt you gold nuggets
>>71607072
Why do good goys on pol and biz always instantly jump to some post apocalyptic scenario to argue that gold is useless?
>>71607490
cause theyre exactly the kind of people who would be invested heavily in bitcoin
>>71586189
>FFXIV shit
>>71607607
You're probably right that their frustration stems from their dead end shitcoin being completely irrelevant while gold still remains as important as ever.
>>71607742
DONT BUY GOLD ITS VALUELESS
BUY BITCOIN ITS VALUELESS
>>71607072
>It has no intrinsic value. Its the same as currency. Nobody wants gold when they can hardly get bread.
You are an absolute fucktard
no one has a bread shortage, F U C K T A R D
gold has massive industrial uses, it is an essential industrial material that we cannot do without. Gold is the only material that can be used for bondage wires, silver isn't as ductile and oxidises, only gold can become thin enough and is chemically unreactive.
It is also one of the densest materials and needed for this reason for radiation shielding on space equipment.
Also gold coating of contacts is universal.
You are so fucking stupid.
>>71605949
What? Is just say I gave it away as gifts/misplaced it
(And I literally have taken ounces of gold outside the us as wedding gifts)
Also, this is why I only buy gold coins. Bullion gold is for chumps. $50 dollar face value for ounce of gold, I can transfer 100,000$ metal and declare it as only $5k. No taxes required.
Gold backed currencies work well because the supply of gold can only increase linearly (through slight improvements in mining yields), thus stopping the devaluation of the currency through excessive money printing. The Problem with gold is hoarding. If you have an money supply that's inflexible then you could run into a situatuation where wealthy people, nationstates, corporations etc that have massive wealth hoard it stunting economic growth and causing deflationary spirals which essentially shuts down the economy leaving those who aren't rich forever stuck there due to the lack of economic growth i.e. new jobs/businesses and opportunities. It isn't Fiat currency per se that is so bad ; it's centralized banking systems in general backed by nationstates with armys that compete over natural resources and what resources have to be bought with what currencies. If people could engage in Fiat banking the same way you start any other business( a free market basically) things would naturally balance themselves out in a competitive manner of course.
Buy bullets and oil. If things go to shit their value is only going to increase. Everyone will want to trade for bullets and oil. Farmers need t he oil to take care of their fields. Give them oil and they will supply you with food they wouldn't be able to grow without your oil.
No one wants your gold. Buying loads of gold to preserve your wealth only allows you to have a little bit of stability. It's not going to help you much if things go real bad.
>>71608932
>It's not going to help you much if things go real bad.
I don't think anyone here is promoting gold or a gold-backed currency for surviving in a post-apocalyptic world. In that case only the guns and bullets will help you, oil will make you a target for groups of people with more guns and bullets.
We should start using bullets as currency.
>>71596988
NCR pls go.
Well at least our thousand likes would be worth something.
>watch as US and A tries to conquer every glacier in the world.
>>71585751
Gold is finite. Can't exploit a gold based currency with jewish keynesian monitorist tricks -- which have fucked over the US.
>>71609923
You also can't pillage an economy like Soros did to Britain via shorting the pound in order to install the euro.
For anyone who doesn't understand how gold actually works:
Gold DOES change in price.
It's not the price of the dollar falling, it'd people's TRUST in the fiat system rising and falling.
Then there's the other factors like supply/demand, taxation, mining etc
>>71596649
>he doesn't know about options
Biz can explain it better really.
Tl;dr gold is a commodity and "real". Fiat currencies can be heavily manipulated.
>>71613313
Avoid the dichotomy and diversify your assets.
fiat currency?
>>71585751
Because rose colored glasses.
>>71585751
the problem of gold back curriencies is that you economy can only grow so much because gold is finite
>>71605875
diamonds are not rare
>>71592203
People never account for pre-nixon gold standard
>>71594742
One of the biggest economic growths in the history of the US happenbed during a deflation.
>>71599480
False. If deflation is linked to productivity is good. If it is not is a catastrophe. That is why one of the biggest growing periods in the US was during a deflation.
>>71615741
This.
Purchasing power is far more relevant that inflation/deflation.
