Why does my generation not understand that socialism has been tried and doesn't work? The reason why America is the world superpower isn't because of bullshit socialism. That isn't what made America great. I'm about to graduate with a degree in finance and the amount of fucking morons at my university who support socialism is astounding. And I go to the best catholic private school in the U.S.
Is there any way to fix this?
>>71566125
>why
because when it was tried the capitalist U.S. got involved and made sure it "failed". what that means is it works, and the ruling class wants people like you to be convinced otherwise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEVOIO4TbZs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gNXfrMR_Lw
There always been commie sympathizes in USA.
If you don't like it, remove freedom of speech and start killing them when you become pres.
>>71566399
>It works because I say it does. Here let me supply you with two youtube links.
Was hoping to get some real discussion.
On another note. Why would I want to share my hard earned dollars for lazy fucks? I just don't understand that mentality.
>>71566399
Also, if the U.S. could topple those socialist countries with such ease, then it looks like capitalism is superior, huh?
>>71566125
The problem is that you're still at university. Once someone has worked for a couple years, thoughts of Socialism leave their head.
![_82696216_2641661[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Q66rIQ9.jpg "_82696216_2641661[1].jpg")
>>71566125
Have you heard of the USSR?
Russia pre revolution:
>shithole
>still had feudal system centuries after it was abolished in most countries
>tsar in power (pretty much combination of monarch and dictator)
>most of country's culture based on religion
>whole country is irrelevant shithole
After Communism:
>world superpower
>first in space, and strong technological lead on the rest of the world
>most iconic Russian technology and weapons all come from the era (eg AK, T34)
>ideology strong enough to unite countries across two different continents together despite differing cultures and beliefs
>strong enough military to do the majority of work in defeating Hitler despite being pretty much having no weapons or army only a few decades ago
Russia Post Communism:
>Irrelevant shithole
>aging army with little new technology
>aging USSR infrastructure with no plans for upgrade
>suffering economy and terrible leader slowly becoming more and more dictator like
Yeah man socialism totally doesn't work lol
>>71567217
>non ironically using the USSR as proof socialism works
Are you fucking kidding me man?! Thy couldn't feed there own people. If it worked so well why did the USSR crumble?
Some of you commies are fucking delusional.
>>71566125
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkpqsH2eF6g
Here
>>71566125
It worked in East Germany. Sure the regime was repressive, but that has little to do with socialism itself.
My grandparents and parents have mostly only good things to say about it. Sure life in general and consumerism wasn't as flashy as now, but back then they have 2000 marks income each and only paid 50 for rent. Decent living was possible for everyone
Considering 87 was the year communism fell, and our schools reach shit for history, and our generation has no interest in educating them selves, I would wager that it's that they think communism is some far off and long gone fairy tale.
Nevermind we've only been out of its clutches for less than 50 years.
>>71566785
>>71567383
>be an irrelevant frozen socialist wasteland on the edge of civilized world
>beat the capitalist world leading richest superpower in every quality of life index ever
>also be world top3 in freedom of press, equality, safety, cleanliness etc.
Oh gee, this socialism isn't working at all. Please give us more of this capitalism. No wait we already have had a taste of it. It brought us global tax evasion, immigration and global financial crisis.
Tell me about the endgame of capitalism.
When technology keeps advancing and less human labour is needed every year, while the amount of humans on this planet will keep growing and growing. And also wealth continues to centralize on fewer hands... Just how will it all end? Capitalism will fail in time, because it is impossible. Just like the USSR.
So can we eliminate farm subsidies now?
>mfw americucks in this thread right now think that the current economic state (crony-capitalism) is working and efficient
>>71569633
It allowed us to get this far, why radically change now?
>>71566399
If socialism truly worked the capitalist could never have gotten involved enough to cause it to fail.
>>71566125
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQCHHGtc0Fs
>>71569267
>>also be world top3 in freedom of press, equality, safety, cleanliness etc.
calling bullshit on these ones
>>71566602
>i refuse to address the evidence of wall street involvement in the soviet union and ww2 because a spineless coward
>hurr durr youtubz is bad because interwebz
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-signs-agreement-with-soviet-union
>>71569792
the fucking mental gymnastics you do to justify your indoctrination
jesus fucking christ
eliminate the right wing
>>71569357
Only Cruz wants to do that but I'm pretty sure he can't win after losing NY
>>71569952
>imblying a contested wont happen
>>71566125
They know they cant achieve shit with their bullshit art degree so they want to bring down successful people to their level.
>>71569267
But why judge things by their end-state? You don't judge a man's performance when he is 90.
Is someone trying to live forever?
>>71569822
no you don't understand.
if socialism didn't work, it wouldn't have need capitalist interests to sabotage itself. see, thing is, it works, and capitalists know it, and they'll lie and murder in order to maintain the status quo. it's hard to establish a system that fascists are willing to murder you over, or have mccarthy witchhunts against.
>>71570028
>yet another shithead that assumes people who want affordable college won't go to technical colleges
>>71566125
>has been tried and doesn't work?
b-but those were only failed experiments! the real socialism is the shit, it's the epitome of happiness!
>>71569926
>silence/kill people who disagree with me
Lets break this down: Human nature is based around competition. For money, power sex all kinds of things. Capitalism is the economic system that best motivates us to succeed. Capitalism is the reason behind 90% of all the things invented in the last few centuries. Capitalism rewards success and fosters creativity, communism/socialism is a fundamental misunderstanding of basically everything
>>71570181
>Yet another idealist faggot who thinks his super duper special brand of Marxism will suceed.
>>71570520
democratic socialism... hmm... you mean like FDR who was re-elected 3 times?
>idealist
theodore roosevelt broke up the banks
>idealist
>>71569267
Calling bullshit on your whole post
http://www.iea.org.uk/publications/research/scandinavian-unexceptionalism-culture-markets-and-the-failure-of-third-way-soc
>>71570276
ah yes, citing other anonymously posted /pol/ comments is truly a legit response
>>71569926
>eliminate the right wing
>the current system isn't leftist Keynesianism
>it hasn't been endlessly criticized by the right since these ideas were first introduced.
>the warnings of the right haven't been constantly coming to pass
>>71570669
FDR was fucking useless. He extended the great depression by several years while managing to convince the population that he was fixing the economy.
>>71570826
>implying what that anon said is wrong in any way or form
oh tell me how do you plan to get the money of the billionaires my dear comrade, you must have a solution I guess if you can call that anon's post bullshit.
>>71566125
You strong for one reason only .. slavery ..
>>71566125
It worked in Yugoslavia until America actively tried to make it fail and of course it eventually did.
It worked in Nazi Germany too.
DUDE VENEZUELA LMAO
t. el peruANO
>>71569267
>quality of life index
Ah yes. I'm sure that the people who fled communist controlled Berlin would vote it very high.
I'm sure the people waiting in line for loafs of bread, waiting in line for shoes, waiting in line for basic items, would rate it very high.
I'm sure the people sent to Gulags would rate it a 10/10.
Hell even the starved Ukrainian citizens who died to 'feed' Soviet citizens would give it two frost bitten thumbs up.
>>71567383
>Thy couldn't feed there own people
Yes they could. Russia had famines for centuries before the Bolsheviks ended it. In any case, rationing is perfectly acceptable when your country is under relentless pressure from a richer enemy. The US today has 45 million people on food stamps while Cuba has no malnutrition.
> If it worked so well why did the USSR crumble?
Because of the crippling bureaucracy and Gorbachev's moves towards capitalism, which destroyed the Russian economy in the 90s. The USSR was still growing steadily even while the West experienced recessions. It will never recover to the level the USSR was at in the 1970s, when it was around 60% the size of the US economy. The USSR was 50 years behind the West when the October Revolution happened.
>>71570512
>Human nature is based around competition
Complete bullshit. Humans are naturally co-operative and evolved that way, hunter-gatherer and early agricultural life demanded it. Only in the last 300 years has economic life shifted to ruthless competition, and it's destroying the planet and led to relentless wars and genocides around the world through imperialism.
"Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name! Every fool, from king to policeman, from the flatheaded parson to the visionless dabbler in science, presumes to speak authoritatively of human nature. The greater the mental charlatan, the more definite his insistence on the wickedness and weaknesses of human nature. Yet, how can any one speak of it today, with every soul in a prison, with every heart fettered, wounded, and maimed?" - Emma Goldman
>Capitalism rewards success and fosters creativity
Again, wrong. Capitalism privatises everything, most notable profits, whereas losses and failures are socialised and heaped upon the proletariat, as in the 2008 bailouts. Capitalism leaves no time for creativity, indeed, we could automate tons of jobs out of existence tomorrow.
>>71571231
>Yugoslavia
>worked
Best joke Ive heard all day
>>71571359
Well it did ROFL.
>>71570669
>Muh Polio Faggot!
>Muh Democratic Socialism!
Kek, the New Deal failed. The only thing that saved FDR's kneck was the war.
>Free shit is popular amoung people.
No shit.
>>71571306
>Capitalism privatises everything, most notable profits, whereas losses and failures are socialised and heaped upon the proletaria
>something that has been opposed by capitalist since Adam Smith
>is a fundamental part of capitalism
Wew laddy
>>71567217
Russia pre revolution:
>shithole
>whole country is irrelevant shithole
Bullshit.
>>71571306
Why do you think owning things is so bad? Everything the government controls is run less efficiently because theres no competition. And dont blame war on capitalism you idiot. People have always fought and will always fight over a great deal of different things.
>through history
>not one successful socialist nation
>through history
>multiple successful capitalist nations
You'd think there would be at least one successful socialist country to be an example of success.
>>71571306
>Humans are naturally co-operative and evolved that way, hunter-gatherer and early agricultural life demanded it
Exactly, but only with family and close friends. I would mortage my house to psy for my fathers heart transplant. I couldn't give a fuck about some random motherfucker, I ain't paying for his shit. Just as one paleolithic tribe wouldn't share food to another tribe just because they're human.
I though useless humans like you enjoyed studying useless shit like sociology.
The US is great because of our massive fucking resources, our hugely invassive governments, our slow steady progress, and our constant influx of intelligent people.
Bernie is not socialist, he is centrist.....
>literal commie cucks on /pol/
we need another pinochet
>>71571904
>That's a right-wing meme
what is, having a job?
>>71571306
>Humans are naturally co-operative
in small groups and tribes of around 50-100, yeah. Things start to fall apart when you put millions of people from radically different cultures together, and expect them to all hold hands and work hard to feed each other.
>doesn't work
>lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty
You should check your sources
>>71571904
Kek. The USSR collapsed without a bullet fired, shows how weak socialism truely is.
>C-communism can work! You just have to not let it get bullied by capitalism!
>>71572051
*citation needed*
>>71566125
What really scares me is in a decade when all the older generations start dying out & retiring that's when these college-bred socialist retards will replace them in government jobs and things really start to go to shit fast.
>>71571532
That's how capitalism works. I don't care about any vision of a perfect capitalism because it will never happen, because the bourgeoisie, who will always hold power under capitalism, will manipulate the system to benefit themselves. Capitalism was created by rich merchants forcing peasants off the land, built upon colonialism, theft and subjugation. The idea that it's voluntary is a complete myth perpetuated by the bourgeoisie to pull the wool over the workers' eyes.
>>71571697
I don't think owning things is bad. All Marxists are fine personal property (e.g. your phone, car, whatever). it's private property, the factories, banks and land, which are owned by a tiny fraction of the population which is bad. Land used to be owned collectively until the dawn of capitalism.
Socialism does not mean the state running everything. There are many branches of socialism. Competition under capitalism leads to the production of useless items and creation of useless jobs (like advertising, banking) for profit. Competition is generally undesirable.
Sure people have always fought over things, that's how it's been ever since the division of labour, but capitalism has by far the biggest death toll of any mode of production. Wars are fought for the private possession of resources and concentration of wealth in the hands of a select few, under socialism, and ultimately communism, everyone's needs would be met and the division of classes would no longer exist, greatly reducing the need for resource wars.
>>71566125
Apart from all the countries where it's working pretty well you mean? Anti nationalist cuckoldry notwithstanding.
Guess what happens if I have a heart attack? I don't go bankrupt.
>>71572051
>lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty
I'm confused what country exactly are you talking about?
>>71572220
history is a meme that repeats
>>71572151
>what is the Soviet Union
>>71572398
>>71566125
DePaul?
>>71572304
>Capitalism was created by rich merchants forcing peasants off the land,
So who exactly was working the land then faggot?
The merchants?
Jesus fucking wept you communists are the fucking worst.
Friends, the problem with Communism is it's faithless. Cultureless. It is inherently Jewish and seeks to destroy the European soul. Look at Russia prior to the USSR and after, they went from a religious, artistic people to a consumerist, soulless society. Just like China. Communism cuts the heart out of a nation by cutting the heart out of the people. Even in socialist countries one can own a bakery, a furniture making shop, the culture, history, and art is passed from one generation to the next.
>>71572425
Came here to post essentially this.
>>71572304
>Land used to be owned collectively until the dawn of capitalism.
I don't know about where you live but in the USA the government owns 28% of the land.
> useless jobs (like advertising, banking) for profit.
>banking is useless
Oh look, he's retarded.
>>71572304
>Capitalism.
>Created.
>Marxism.
>Allowed private property.
Stop contradicting yourself.
>>71572485
>Soviet Union.
>Getting anyone not in the Kremlin out of poverty.
>>71572485
>what is the Soviet Union
A poverty stricken shithole where cars and television sets were luxury items.
>>71571865
Ah, but it was scarcity which necessitated the conflict between tribes. It was a daily struggle to survive The productive forces of feudalism and now capitalism, have reduced that scarcity through technology. The dream of communism is to eliminate work ultimately. I regret your lack of empathy for your fellow man.
>>71572021
I don't advocate that. It's capitalism which leads to mass migration, since the economies of the global south are shit and the first world wages war, not just militarily but economic warfare, forcing people to move. Capitalism needs a large pool of unemployed workers to hold down wages. Most people would rather stay in their countries, but when it's in ruins thanks to imperialism you don't have much choice.
>>71572709
>>71572680
Soviet Union had a gdp per capital of $10,000 in 1991. That's respectable even by today's standards.
Furthermore, you are forgetting that vast swathes of territory from St. Petersburg to the Pacific Ocean south to Iran were electrified, industrialized and settled during that time. If you lived in those areas, the perception of increasing wealth, health and well-being would be obvious for all to see.
When people criticize the Soviet Union, they are comparing it to western Europe or America, places with far longer histories of development and social institutions. Soviet Union took a huge nation of disparate peoples and molded them into a super power that at its peak had a larger GDP than the rest of Europe combined.
>>71572961
Kek. Communism only creates scarcity and artificially forces men to submit to it.
Look at the Holodomor and Great Leap Forwards. I don't lack empathy for all men, only most. Marxism lacks empathy for all.
>>71573099
>24,404.99 USD (1991)
Kek.
>>71573099
its easy to build shit fast when you dont care about how many of your own people you kill
>>71572961
>It's capitalism which leads to mass migration,
It's hilarious because you're correct for entirely the wrong reason. Capitalism DOES led to mass migration!
It does so by raising the standard of living of "the global south" to the point that even illiterate African villagers can afford to blow tens of thousands of dollars to travel to wealthy countries when the going gets tough, rather than just STARVING TO DEATH like their ancestors did.
>>71572554
Peasants. The merchant class developed separately, as a result of the burgeoning European empires, through state-backed trade.
>>71572670
Again, state ownership means nothing, especially in the US, which is the most reactionary country on earth.
Yes banking ultimately is generally useless, fictitious capital is a huge problem under capitalism
>>71572680
Read Marx and Engels, then come back you little class cuck.
>>71573428
I have. It's all idealistic garbage. How about you open The Wealth of Nations lazy welfare Paki.
>>71566125
>muh socialism is a bad word in America
Socalism sucks. The best example is the USSR which was literally tyranny.
>>>71573428
>banking ultimately is generally useless
Wew lad.
>average bernie supporter
>>71566125
Georgetown, Notre Dame, Villanova ?
>Boston College master race, no bernie fags here
>>71567942
>It worked in East Germany.
No it didn't. What the fuck. You guys were CRYING when you saw our supermarkets, Mirko.
>>71573375
I'm not saying SU was all good, surely it was a lot of bad especially if you were caught up in Stalinist purges. But there's a reason why 75 percent of Soviet citizens voted to stay in the SU in 1991, and why Russians still today view Stalin as a good leader.
Look, I'm not a communist, in fact I like Hitler a lot. I just view each nation as a separate historical instance and you can't apply moral judgments or today's ideas of democracy to what are essentially primitive cultures.
There is this pulsating influence of western democracy and capitalism that views our current system as sort of the ultimate in reason and fairness. Well, if you tried to advocate or implement today's capitalism and democracy in say, Ancient Egypt, it would be a colossal failure because the society simply did not have the capability of working within these institutions.
Because we don't care! Donald Trump is a RACECAR driver and you're a white male! Are you kidding me? How do you not know this?
>>71573428
>Muh only material REAL PRODUCTION is economy and useful
Fucking materialists like you are the bane of humanity. You're a fucking creationist who thinks everything complex MUST have been created by [insert some evil power] and must be replaced by [incorruptible state]. Fucking die pennyless commie, I hope comissar Jamal hangs you for using a computer.
Marxism is the new black plague.
Dark ages coming soon
Non-Democratic socialism (red communism) has been tried and doesn't work.
Capitalism has been tried and doesn't work.
Fascism has been tried and doesn't work.
National socialism had been tried and doesn't work.
Democratic socialism (in the social democracy sense) is the only system that has been tried and works. If you believe anything else you are literally cucked.
>>71573761
Agree with you, although there are some aspects people may remember fondly like guaranteed employment. The reason why the satellite nations of the SU broke away in 90-91 is because they were run like colonies. If Eastern Germany could have managed its own affairs it would have been far more successful.
>>71573428
I'm confused.
If the merchants forced the peasants off the land how were the peasants working the land?
So, let me get this straight. Teenagers today think
>The USSR was a paradise
>The GDR was also a paradise
>Everything that went wrong with Asia was just capitalism sabotaging Communism
Are you serious? Or are you guys trolling? I can't believe this shit. I don't even know what the fuck.
>>71573358
Communism has never existed. A few countries attempted socialism and generally did pretty well despite being under massive sanctions. You think a socialist USA would have scarcity? No, because it's already rich. Most socialist revolutions happened in countries that were already ruined by war or colonialism, because they saw the devastating effects of capitalism first hand. The USA, UK, France and others tried to invade the USSR in 1918. Holodomor and GLF were grossly exaggerated and more the result of drought than anything else.
>>71573395
Sure, it raises living standards. I'm not denying they're richer now. However, international trade deals are set up to keep resources and wealth flowing from the south to the north. Africa will never catch up while its under the boot of the richer capitalist states. Burkina Faso tried socialism but France wouldn't have it.
>>71573578
It's materialist, not idealist. They were critical of utopian socialism, dummy.
>>71573602
It is socially useless, to use Marxist terminology. Banks produce nothing of value. Bankers don't create technology, workers do.
>>71573926
>capitalism has been tried and doesnt work
False.
>democratic socialism works
r o f l m a o
>>71573428
>there are literal marxists on /pol/
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>71573926
Hitler did NOTHING wrong.
Watch this and you'll start to understand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nAxMUDLWGQ
>>71573926
Fukuyama pls
Do you see whole countries collapsing because of their economic system ? I'm not talking about people having debts because of their own fault.
The only system that works economically and morally is free market.
>>71573965
>guaranteed employment
Don't tell me you believe this shit. It basically meant you sat around all day, pretending to work while your boss pretended to pay you.
>If Eastern Germany could have managed its own affairs it would have been far more successful.
You mean with a NATIONAL FORM OF SOCIALISM?
>>71574075
Pretty much, and all the while they live at a very comfortable level income wise in a first world nation like Sweden or Germany.
How about these retards move to DPRK, Venezuela or Burma?
>>71574303
Then I am afraid for the future.
Just kidding, we don't have a future. i'll got to bed and try not to dream of ethnic cleansings against commies.
>>71574092
>It is socially useless, to use Marxist terminology. Banks produce nothing of value. Bankers don't create technology, workers do.
I hope this is a troll. It's 2016; the Labor theory of value isn't real. Banks fund investments in capital all the fucking. Socially useless? Go read a book you dumb marxist.
>>71574075
>strawmanning
Most young people don't even know what SU or GDR was.
>>71566125
> B-b-but pure Marxism hasn't even been tried OP?
>>71574397
Sleep well, Hans. Hope you wake up to a bright sun.
Sanders isn't a socialist you retard.
More government spending is not Socialism.
Socialism is exclusively worker control over the means of production and the abolition of private property.
>>71574203
Hitler lost.
>>71574092
>i·de·al·ism
īˈdē(ə)ˌlizəm
noun
1.
the practice of forming or pursuing ideals, especially unrealistically.
No, that's about right. Communism has never existed, because..... IT CAN'T. What about that can't get into your headmeat?
>>71574484
>sanders isn't a socialist
Here
we
go
>>71574203
>Hitler did NOTHING wrong.
attacking russia was a bit retarded
>>71574484
Strictly speaking, the policies he's running on aren't socialist, but he's a pinko and extremely sympathetic to the commies.
>>71574092
>Africa will never catch up while its under the boot of the richer capitalist states.
GOOD.
I don't want Africa to catch up. This world can barely sustain current levels of consumption and you want to give every African nigger a Dodge Charger, an ipad, cable internet, a McMansion, and central air too?
FUCK YOU.
Bringing them to my level of living means one of two things:
A). COLLAPSE since there isn't enough stuff in the world for everyone.
B). Drastically reducing my standard of living for the sake equality with "the global south"
Fuck that and fuck you.
Death to the subaltern.
>>71574638
Easy to say in hindsight
>>71574488
>didn't watch
>>71574638
>also didn't watch
Protip: it's fucking comedic gold you sperglords
>>71574578
If we're going to blow the fuck out of lefties, we have to do it working with proper definitions.
>>71574067
>If the merchants forced the peasants off the land how were the peasants working the land?
The peasants were a holdout from feudalism. The merchants, who accrued wealth and resources through separate channels, enclosed land, which was previously collectively owned, but it was parcelled up and privatised. The peasants later became the industrial working class during the 19th century.
>>71573834
Of course I'm a materialist. So are the bourgeoisie, they just like to pull the wool over our eyes.
>>71574416
LTV has never been disproved. I know the Austrians like to think so but all their arguments (Mises comes to mind) are pretty much strawmen. If it wasn't real the capitalists wouldn't try to suppress any socialist country that dares to believe in it.
>>71574515
Why can't it? I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, or even in 50 years. But if the technology advances far enough, it's a given. Either that or some form of dystopian capitalism is implemented.
Anyway, I'm done. Good talking with you goys.
>>71574673
He has policies? I thought he just said free college a lot and it has somehow gotten him this far.
>>71574865
anyone who uses the word "bourgeoisie" unironically needs to get shot
>>71574865
>goys.
Looks like Australia let dad shitpost with him today.
>>71574865
>LTV has never been disproved.
>what is marginalism
Marginalism is an old idea that predates the Austrian school. The only people that believe in the LTV anymore are delusional marxists and some hipster leftists.
>>71571306
You're right, east berlin was the place to be. so prosperous.
>>71566125
I've spoken to them, and I think they all know on some level that it doesn't work. The rise of "democratic socialism" being used instead of simply Socialism, shows that even they believe Socialism is authoritarian at heart. The death of the Middle-class and elimination of Meritocracy has shewn itself to the youth. They are angry, and want what other generations had.
Most being young probably think Sanders will be like another Mommy and Daddy to send you beer money in college. Once they are exposed further to the workforce, they will begin to see that it is the state behind these problems.
It is our job to not alienate these people; if we polarize the issue further (as the left is trying to do) we will only make any conversion harder. What I suggest to my fellow /pol/sheviks is that you do not confront them directly, and call them fools, this will do nothing. Instead speaking badly about the Government, and pointing out how the Government has been responsible for all problems Bernie claims to be solving. Come from the point of an Independent or Libertarian, and appear to be a "Reasonable Centrist".
A thought of doubt must be planted; Socialism has been constructed to deny reason, and become the Cult of the State. It is in our best of interests to not alienate these people, but shove them towards a small Government mindset, and abandon arbitrary Party politics.
>>71574865
>The peasants were a holdout from feudalism
>The merchants, who accrued wealth and resources through separate channels, enclosed land, which was previously collectively owned,
No I'm even more confused.
Are you claiming that feudalism was a system of collective land ownership operated by the peasants?
>>71573637
>I don't get what I want and I take it out on those around me
pretty much yeah
>>71575360
>feudalism was a system of collective land ownership operated by the peasants
WE WUZ LANDOWNERS
>>71575273
That image describes EXACTLY why socialists are fucking idiots. There is NO planning and just "muh feelings" when it comes down to this shit.
Socialism is really a collective action problem. More specifically, the problem of bringing enough resources to bear on certain major projects of national importance.
Take the railroads in America. They would probably never have been built without the government.
The question is how far you want to stretch this principle?
The "capitalism v socialism" non-stop dualistic debate you see in western countries is really just a bunch of spoiled babies arguing with each other. Our current capitalist societies with lots of socialism is the result of a long series of negotiations and compromise. Immature children don't like negotiation and compromise.
>>71572304
>That's how capitalism works.
>things leftist faggots put into a capitalist system which has broken it and capitalist have opposed longer than Marxism even existed
>what capitalism is
Wew laddy
>>71575681
It's a shame really. Most are just looking for gibsmedats, but some genuinely believe they're helping the world. While their ideology is destructive, and must be eliminated from society with full force, one cannot help but feel some respect for the desire to do good that many believe in.
>>71574203
Fuck I'm dying.
>>71575748
>public infrastructure is socialism
>>71573926
National Socialism did work, but us capitalists ruined their fun. kek
>>71576013
Well it's a matter of degree isn't it? If the government builds a hospital or railroad, it's not socialism? But if they build everything it is?
>>71576210
Socialism is the government owning the means of production. It's a totally different thing.
>>71576210
>everything that isnt libertarianism is socialism
>>71575908
>desire to do good meme
>implying hell isn't full of people with good intentions
Liberals that believe in this shit don't deserve respect. They don't even truly believe in the shit they spout, they do it because it's convenient, because they have the most to gain. Scrutiny is something that is not tolerated amongst socialists, all based ideas don't care about scrutiny because they work.
>>71572396
Yeah cause you die waiting in the hospital Kek fuck off leaf
>>71576324
>it's a matter of degree
>>71576296
Explain dipshit.
>>71575273
Isn't it fairer to give all 151.000 employees a more sustainable life by at least raising the wage not to 15, but maybe 13? People want to live you know. You're siding with the wealth of a few people who don't even know what to do with all that money over 151,000 people?
>>71576627
Railroads are privately owned and they aren't productive property m8. It's not socialism. Socialism would be nationalizing an industry and putting it under government control.
>>71569870
Freedom of press ranking
https://rsf.org/ranking
Gender equality
https://www.weforum.org/reports/global-gender-gap-report-2015
Safest countries in the world
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/safest-countries-in-the-world.html
As for where he got the cleanliness I do not know, but to be honest we Nordic countries don't really have the population or industries to pollute any meaningful amount so we are high up in those charts by default.
>>71566125
They don't understand economy.
>>71571359
it did work until the u.s. bombed the shit out of it. there was corruption but people could go to school and it wasn't a hellhole.
>>71573926
>red communism has been tried
>refuses to acknowledge the difference between a dictatorship and dictatorship of the proletariat
>>71567217
Yeah, and practically everybody with my surname from my native region were murdered, send to gulag or starved to death.
Sometimes i think you deserve that virtual Sanders to become president to understand that communism/socialism is not about flying to space. It's only about people's tragedies.
>>71576930
currency merely abbreviates the inherent compositional fallacies of commodity fetishism. even right wing economists like Mises and Hayek support a social welfare system/negative tax.
fucking check yourself, anteater.
>>71577237
yeah, they were killed by the logical conclusion of the white army, not the red army.
see
>>71566399
>>71567383
>Are you fucking kidding me man?!
>>71576403
I can't argue with what you say, it is all true.
>>71576694
As you increase the minimum wage, unemployment goes up equally. So you're giving Starbucks employees a cushier life (instead of having room mates), and tossing steel workers out on their butts.
This is irrelevent from an outside view though, so it's not as effective; I shall try another approach. All the Minimum wage accomplishes in the big picture is to bankrupt smaller companies, who cannot match the prices, and ride out the storm that comes from increased minimum wage (and price). This is why some companies like Wallmart actually lobby to increase Minimum wage.
If Starbucks couldn't afford 15 dollars an hour, what would happen to Jim's Coffee Shop?
Ultimately these people are voluntarily working for a company, and can leave at any time. The economy is not a Zero Sum Game, and we should not make it one, by redistributing wealth from the upper classes, as these produce a large portion of Wealth in the United States.
>>71570040
can't believe anons missed this rare
