Hey goys.
Some friends of mine tried telling me that Germany started WW2 and that their justification was more "Lebensraum", after I objected saying that Lebensraum is at most a loose term for ethnic German regions of Poland, they went on some good goy website to try and disprove me which they then did.
What sources does /pol/ have to share with me on the topic of who really started WW2, because "wikipedia isn't good enough" and I assume that since they don't want the truth, linking to fringe websites won't work either. I haven't yet bothered explaining the Poland-England situation because I assume its beyond their attention span, but would still like some help with it.
I'm fully aware that they might be too programmed to ever accept a different reality or a more accurate truth.
Any help?
>>71405319
pls
...How do you think it started?
This is a good read anon.
https://archive.org/details/TheWorldConquerors-TheRealWarCriminals1958
>>71406473
World War 2 took a little while to start.
The problem with Poland came when they started the pogroms and started killing Germans, before which they printed those insane maps of a Polish border just a few miles of Berlin. Of course fueled with confidence that the "English will save us" should Germany attack.
Hitler was negotiating a peaceful resolution to the Polish problem in 1939, which culminated in the 16 point peace plan (pic related). This of course was rejected and so probably as a preemptive strike the Germans assaulted Poland after the Stalin pact, as the Poles really believed the Germans had no military.
>>71405319
Well whats your argument and we can back that up. But the main reason was similar to the First World War - alliances. Britain and France didn't have any alliance with Czechoslovakia so when Germany invaded them we allowed it (Mostly because Neville Chamberlain, our PM at the time liked Nazi Germany and said its an ideal for Europe) so we kept out. But Poland, after WW1 we were promised to protect - it was likely that Russia was going to be the one to invade it, and was put into place to prevent that since Russia had lost a lot of power since WW1 - the treat of the two strongest powers - France and Britain would keep her in check. But Hitler was to invade her first - the better option would be to seek approval to just take the Polish corridor (the German part). Britain was rather lenient with Germany at the time but due to the destruction of France during WW1, the French were less so and so declared war. Two days later so did we - since we were promised to protect Poland - so it was Germany who started the war by invading Poland but it was Britain/France who made it a world war by attacking Germany.
>>71406757
Any evidence on that? i see many people saying that bullshit and none back up that opinion with any sensible explanation or evidence
>>71406757
>16 point plan for peace
>1. give us territory
Germany is a nation of peace!!!!!
>>71406757
But that is blackmail, anon. The same thing they did with Czechia, where they took Sudetenland and drew the border such that they fuck up our main railway. You can't say that Hitler was a good guy if he went around and bullied other nations because "muh german minority".
>>71406965
Poland was ethnically cleansing Germans in that city, bro!
Who gives a shit now anyway, Europeans all need to unite so they don't get overrun by Muslims.
>>71406854
I was taking the offensive by attacking their understanding of WW2, which I listed in the OP. A rather weak argument revolving around hyperbole constructed with the "Lebensraum" argument, which was a rather loose term and took many meanings over its lifetime.
>>71407058
>"muh german minority".
Treaty of Versailles caused that horrid problem of taking a handful million Germans and distributing them into neighboring nations that weren't particularly keen on having them.
There was nothing wrong with Hitler returning the Sudetendeutsche back to Germany.
>>71406854
you declared war and antything else all you did was
throwing leaflets from plane. Anglos waited until nazis took france then they started doing anything.
>>71407204
We didn't want war. And Chamberlain fought in WW1 and knew how bad that was. He didn't want to go through it again. Plus we had to ready our army. Remember we're an island so we don't need our army at the ready all the time - unlike France who bordered Germany. Also both France and us thought Germany would attack directly through the new French defenses on the border- not bypass that by going through Netherlands and Belgium.
>>71407165
>There was nothing wrong with Hitler returning the Sudetendeutsche back to Germany.
>back to Germany
You what mate? Those Germans were living in the Sudents since Charles IV. asked them to colonize our borders in the 14th century. Sudetenland was always a part of the Czech lands and the Germans living their enjoyed great autonomy.
I am not denying that Treaty of Versailles was retarded but Sudetenland was a pure land grab.
>>71407483
However you are traitors. You declared help if someone attecked us and fucked us in the ass with no lubricantwhen it comed to fullfill that. If you helped right away it would end very quickly
>>71407491
>was a pure land grab.
Sudetenland existed inside Austria-Hungary as "Königreich Böhmen". Seeing as how Germany eventually came to get us as well, yes it was a land grab, but a fairly justifiable one under the guise of pan-Germanism.
ww2 started when ww1 ended.
>>71407947
Sure it was justifiable but you can't go around bullying other nations saying "I want peace"
>>71408395
He wanted peaceful resolutions. Those may or may not result in peace, but hopefully they do.
We are getting off topic though. The main reason for why Hitler started WW2 that is brought to me is that "he invaded Poland".
Not that this isn't true, he did invade Poland, but it's a misrepresentation to say that "one day Hitler woke up in 1939 and decided to fuck the Poles over because why not".
>>71407576
>However you are traitors. You declared help if someone attecked us and fucked us in the ass with no lubricantwhen it comed to fullfill that.
Your fault for falling for the old anglo trick of bait and switch. Never trust brits. They specialize in backstabbing. Since they are a small island against a big world.
>>71406757
>August 30-31 1939
>using blackmail as a pretext for invasion
The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact was already signed weeks ago you stupid stormfront cock.
>>71406757
>The problem with Poland came when they started the pogroms and started killing Germans,
DIDN'T HAPPEN, NO REAL/RELEVANT PROOFS for the 100th time.
>before which they printed those insane maps of a Polish border just a few miles of Berlin.
>>71405319
>what started it
Jewish trade boycott then the ethnic cleansing of Germans in the Danzig corridor.
>>71408559
>fuck the Poles over because why not"
Isn't that most of European History?
>>71407149
>Poland was ethnically cleansing Germans in that city, bro!
No it was not, Poland had NO authority over the FREE CITY OF DANZIG you retard.
The Germans on the other hand were genociding/ethnically cleansing those cities after the Partitions of Poland of 1795 by repressions and forced Germanisation.
>>71405319
If it wasn't Lebensraum then can you explain the whole Austrian & Czech thing?
SHUT IT DOWN
WW2 is on us, but WW1 isn't.
>>71410697
>Jewish trade boycott
Is this before or after Germans were abusing Jews?
>>71411242
This thread is not about the holocaust tard.
>>71411394
I was just bumping while reading the images/links Sven.
My countries fucked as well, but I don't take it out on you.
>>71405319
>what started it
Britain and France gave guarantees to Poland that if they didn't make a comintern (anti-soviet_ pact with Germany, including Germany's offer to build highways for rapid deployment across the East, they would back Poland in a war with Germany. Poland thought it would like more land, so did France. Britain wanted to see Germany crushed economically, and the treaty of Versaille hadn't worked. So the Polish generals received orders to draw up war plans a month before the negotiations with Germany ended; thy basically used the ruse of negotiations to buy time for war. The Polish army then started exterminating ethnic Germans in their territories. Even being a month behind, Germany kicked their asses, while France and Britain left Poland to fight alone; technically, they honored their agreements by declaring war, but they did nothing to help.
Sources:
> https://ia800301.us.archive.org/10/items/DerKriegDerVieleVaeterHatteGerdSchultzeRhonhof/DerKriegDerVieleVaeterHatteGerdSchultzeRhonhof.pdf
>http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm
See also: 'War 1939: The British Guarantee to Poland"
>http://jane-griffiths-my-book.blogspot.com/2013/03/march-1939-british-guarantee-to-poland.html
I think Pat Buchanan also wrote a book on the subject, not sure of the title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MejbBsSAP8I
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm
>>71406965
What's the problem?
They just wanted their rightfull clay that the allies and polecucks stole from tbem in 1918
>>71411608
*anti-comintern
sorry, typing on my phone
>>71411608
>So the Polish generals received orders to draw up war plans a month before the negotiations with Germany ended
What are you talking about? The Polish army didn't mobilise entirely because of Britain, Britain said that mobilisation would provoke the Germans even more and not mobilising would deescalate the situation... This fucked over Poland in September as Poland only managed to get mobilised by 50%.
>The Polish army then started exterminating ethnic Germans in their territories.
FUCKING BS. Stop lying. This is ridiculous beyond belief.
>>http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm
All atrocities committed in that link are non coordinated incidents by the local Polish population AFTER SEPTEMBER 1 1939. Read what you post.
And no, there is no proof for the MUH 60,000, which literally MUH 6,000,000 tier. Poland never sanctioned mass murder idiot.
>>71411738
>>71411768
>>71411803
>>71411822
>Bromberg
Read about what actually happened during the Bromberg massacre. In total more Polish civilians died than German, and the whole incident was provoked by Germans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1939)
Say what you what about oppressed German minorities but the annexation of Poland and the subsequent plans to make uber Germany are nothing but warmongering expansionism.
Tie that with Italian land grabs on the Coast and Japanese and you have hyper aggressive nations.
And on the topic of ethnic cleansing of Germans in Poland it is very possible rare attacks were being carried out, however you have to remember both sides very cleverly used propaganda and this was clearly Hitler trying to justify such an attack against the sovereign nation of Poland and the polish people destroying their freedom and futures
There was really no one cause it was a multitude of different pressures and social climates, arms races and land grabs by Hitler that started the war. The war is no one nations fault
>>71412160
>The sequence started with an attack of German Selbstschutz snipers on retreating Polish troops and then was followed by Polish contraction and final retaliation executed on Polish hostages by Wehrmacht and Selbstschutz, after fall of the city. All these events resulted in the deaths of both German and Polish civilians. Polish Institute of National Remembrance investigation reports and confirms 254 direct victims of Lutheran confession (assumed as German minority victims), 86 direct victims of Catholic confession (assumed as Polish civilian victims) and 20 Polish soldiers dead. Approximately 600–800 Polish hostages were shot in mass execution in the aftermath of the fall of the city.[citation needed]
>After the Germans took over the city, they killed 1200–3000 Polish and Jewish civilians, as part of Operation Tannenberg. The event and place of execution became known as the Valley of Death. The murdered included the president of Bydgoszcz, Leon Barciszewski. Fifty Polish prisoners of war originating from Bydgoszcz were later falsely accused by Nazi Sondergericht Bromberg summary courts for taking part in "Bloody Sunday" and shot.
>>71412270
>According to the most widely accepted version, the incident stemmed from groups of German saboteurs attacking Polish troops behind the front lines.[8][9] This version holds that, as a contingent of the Polish Army was withdrawing through Bydgoszcz (Army Pomorze's 9th, 15th, and 27th Infantry Division)[9] it was attacked by German irregulars from within the city. According to a British witness, a retreating Polish artillery unit was shot at by Germans from within a house; the Poles returned fire and were subsequently shot at from a Jesuit church.[10] In the ensuing fight both sides suffered some casualties; captured German nonuniformed armed insurgents were executed on the spot and some mob lynching was also reported.[9][11][12] A Polish investigation concluded in 2004 that Polish troops had been shot at by members of the German minority and German military intelligence (Abwehr) agents; around 40–50 Poles and between 100 to 300 Germans were killed
MUH BROMBERG
MUH MASSACRE
Fuck off.
>>71411357
>abusing kikes
Who the fuck cares faggot, what are you doing here?
>>71412371
HITLER DIDDO NUTTIN HE A GOOD BOY WHO GO TO CHURCH
>>71412384
I'm here to make you feel like an idiot for not having a rebuttal.
>>71412545
>implying kikes being abused ever requires a rebuttal
How fucking new are you?
>>71411738
That's a shoop, here's the original.
>>71412081
>Polish generals received orders to draw up war plans
Did I say "mobilize" in that sentence?
>The Polish army didn't mobilise entirely
So, they mobilized 50% because of the British, you say. Not only are you replying to a point I didn't make, the point you are replying to entirely eschews the point I made that they were in the middle of negotiations for an alliance with Germany when Britain sabotaged it. You're now telling me Britiain sabotaged Poland by leaving them unprepared to fight Germany; well that's hardly what sabotaged them, it was Britain getting Poland to decide to abandon negotiations and go to war with Germany anyway. Germany wasn't the existential threat, the Soviet union was; turning on Germany was part of a Franco-British agenda driven by greed and special interests.
>FUCKING BS. Stop lying.
Not an argument.
>This is ridiculous beyond belief.
Not an argument.
>All atrocities committed in that link are non coordinated incidents by the local Polish population
Read the caption of the first photo, and bother to read the actual link before commenting. These are documented crimes internationally recognized. There are autopsies.
>Read what you post.
I have. You clearly haven't, you staggering genius.
>>71412160
>Links me Wikipedia
>Says "Read about what ACTUALLY happened"
Tell me why the source I provided should be discarded in favor of the least reputable source on the Internet. Here's a bibliography with at least 20 sources, many of them original communications. Fuck your wikipedia, and fuck your 12-year-old shitstain arguing skills.
>>71412708
lel nice
>>71412081
> Here's a bibliography
Forgot to link:
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/History/polandbetrayal.htm#MILITARY%20PREPARATIONS
>>71412081
When someone gives you books, don't tell them they need Wikipedia.
>>71412270
>>71412371
>>>/trash/
>>71412160
You listed all these
>>>71411738 (You)
>>>71411768 (You)
>>>71411803 (You)
>>>71411822 (You)
But you left out the one that mentions an autopsy file number:
>>71411712
Then you called ME the liar.
;^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0wHzx2ymFk
Myths about WW2: Germans wanted peace
