Well, /pol?
>>>/hist/
>>>/sci/
>>>/trash/
Simple 3D+1T creature. Have you ever considered that time may not be temporal to God?
He sees all paths forward and back. All decisions you will make and ones that you won't in this experience of time.
Who is to say that time does not simply loop around or that "always existed" means since the beginning of time itself, like a big bang.
>>71124232
Do you have any cientific evidence of a God?
>>71124232
If the answer is no, then you can fuck yourself.
Just like all theists and their fairy tales.
>>71124232
We don't know that time began with the big bang, anon
There is no time before the creation of the universe. Your question is stupid.
Even if it weren't it's still possible for a infinite sequence to have a final sum: How can Achilles beat the Tortoise?
>>71123799
>time before time
>>71124797
>There is no time before the creation of the universe. Your question is stupid.
This, you would think atheists knew that.
God is outside space and time, faggot
>>71124920
Pls read
>>71125004
OP is trying to put into perspective what Theists should think with an omnipotent and omnipresent God.
>>71125004
Let's not pretend you have any idea what that means.
>>71124406
Do you have any "cientific" evidence that he does not exist?
>>71124406
>>71124570
But since you atheists keep making the claim that God doesn't exists, can you prove that claim?
The answer may be no.
Also
>cientific
>mexican intellectuals
>>71125323
Well, i think he does have an idea.
He thinks "God" isnt tied by our "laws", so he can avoid any arguments that question major events in the bible.
He does not have evidence of it, of course.
Why did God decide to become a normie by incarnating himself into a 3DPD ?
>>71123799
God exists outside of time, and the period before creation exists outside of time as well. There was no beginning and end to that period until God willed it.
Yawn, next.
>>71124232
this he created time it self. he is not affected by the laws of the universe he created
>>71124406
MEXICAN INTELLECTUALS
>>71123799
Humans will one day master science and create a universe like this.
>inb4 you can't create matter and energy
nigger plz, if not the creation, then some rearrangment of whatever they consist of.
If humans will one day be capable of it, then it isn't such an outlandish question to be asked if someone or something else has already gone through this cycle.
>>71125357
You are the one claiming he exists, it' sup to you to prove it.
I never claimed he doesn't exist, i just don't believe he does.
>>71125391
Atheism isn't a group nor an organized doctrine.
I don't believe in God, so i am skeptical of his existence.
If you believe and claim that he exists, you would have to carry the responsability to prove your claim is valid.
>>71125458
Wasn't it Jesus?
>>71125474
Do you have evidence of that?
>>71125513
Well, he is absent from logic as well, since he created took 6 days to create earth, but took one to create the stars, which are trillions of times bigger and sofisticiated than our little blue sphere.
>>71125611
It would be cool.
But then we would have to regulate and pass on laws on our creations.
>using logic on something based on faith
good job weighing that apple with a ruler.
>>71125474
>period
>before
>until
Those are temporal concepts. They make no sense without time.
>>71125513
If God isn't subject to any law, then how do you justify using the laws of logic to argue for his existence? When you neatly define him to be outside of our sphere of thoughts and experiences, then you lose all argumentative access to him altogether. You can't talk about stuff you can't think about.
>>71125786
Exactly.
Faith.
It's the belief on a unproven truth.
If Christfags kept their beliefs to themselves and do not try to discriminate other people's beliefs of lack of them, they would be tolerated a lot more.
Too bad christianity has already been disproven by evolution and other scientific discoveries.
>>71125927
Exactly.
We are too dumb as a species to succesfully claim something that is outside of logic,laws and other concepts.
Until we have such power, all religions are false.
>>71125941
What will people say when we find microbial life somewhere else in the solar system?
>>71125766
Well, he is absent from logic as well, since he created took 6 days to create earth, but took one to create the stars, which are trillions of times bigger and sofisticiated than our little blue sphere
did not the big bang happen in a second ? he could literally go and play cards with satan for 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds .
>>71124406
And do you have any evidence of not existing of the God?
>>71125615
You are the one who started the thread claiming he doesn't. Prove. It.
This shit is why Trump needs to build wall.
>>71126143
We already found little microorganisms in mars, haven't we?
Well, then "God" had more 'chosen people' we didn't know about.
(Would discredit the bible even more)
>>71125615
>atheism isn't a group
Atheism is a religion owned by kikes. How retarded can you be?
>>71123799
What is Mormon doctrine of godhood and priesthood?
>>71126258
No, it isn't
>>71123799
>implying a being that exists outside of time can be bound by time
>>71126218
>>71126231
I asked for cientific evidence of God.
Since i believe on things that have been proven by science.
>>71123799
this shit is so dumb. that infinity crap is not logical, fallacies up the wazoo.
>>71123799
>>71124232
God is not falsifiable.
You can't prove SCIENTIFICALLY whether he exists or not.
However, you can apply philosophical principle, to rule out dumb things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
tl;dr: The correct answer is the less complicated, as in, requires less "special cases:
>Why is X that way
>becuz god
>Why is Y that way
>becuz god
Bottom note: believing in god is PURELY IRRATIONAL, it's not justifiable in any way besides "feelings" so you can try your hardest, you'll never easily convince someone who believes/doesn't believe to switch to the other side, with all the evidence in the world.
And last but not least: the fact god exists or not isn't relevant when proving if a religion is true or false: they are ALL trivially falsifiable, and they go contradictory against (or straight out don't mention) anything related to proofs that god doesn't exist.
Example with OP:
"If the time before existence came to be was infinitely long, how has it come to an end"
Someone offers a rebuttal, saying basically "i understand god better than u do"
But he doesn't see that this still disprove each and every religion since they do not mention it.
Your explanation is still out of the context of the religion you're trying to defend so it doesn't help its case.
Christianity (and any other) is still fake because their concept of God doesn't adhere to the one you're using to defend your point of view.
kthxbai
>>71126195
The bible states he created the universe in 6 days.
Yet he created plants before the sun.
>>71125357
Probatio diabolica
>>71126443
/Thread
>>71126368
Is there scientific evidence to prove that the universe exists without using anything within it?
See what happens when you think like that?
>>71126515
Why is that a problem? Surely plants can survive a day without sun.
>>71126443
says a frenchie
>>71126679
Not only "days' are determined by different factors, you are claiming God created the rest of the universe in one day, while it took him 6 to create ours.
>>71126654
I don't claim he does not exist, i just don't believe in it.
If you believe in it and claam it exists, you better prove it
>>71124406
Do you have any evidence that scientific evidence means anything?
>>71123799
the world does not mean all of creation
>>71123799
How to recognize the fact that the creator of said image is a retard:
>If this period is infinitely long, how could it have COME TO AN END
Instead they should've asked how it could've come into existence in the first place, since that's contradictory to its ''infinite'' status. Something that 'is' infinite, cannot have a beginning, but something not having a beginning doesn't make logical sense in the human brain. That should've been the question instead.
>Tfw currently reading Genesis and starting to accept God into my heart
I don't fully believe yet, but I feel like he will help my depression, and will be forever grateful is such is true
>>71126257
>microorganisms in mars, haven't we?
No, we found signs that there might be little microorganisms on Mars.
>>71127083
Believe in Madoka, you poor lost soul.
>>71126368
>Since i believe on things that have been proven by science.
So you don't believe in:
>the reality of the physical world
>the reality of past events
>other sentient beings
?
Pro tip: The ability to "prove" things is not an ability science has. Science has no mechanism to provide absolute truth.
>>71123799
No one claims (at least the educated ones) that God created the universe an infite amount of time ago. This thread started with bait but it got replies so I might as well share that now it's too late.
>>71126940
You have evidence thay evidence of scientific evidence means anything?
Well, it is the form of argumented science that we use to determine the rules and facts of our reality.
Also, we have arguments and proof of what we believe is true.
Like gravity.
>>71127360
Well, we could alll be in the matrix, ya know.
We do not know the entire truth behind reality.
But, hey, it's a start.
>>71126515
>Implying god needs the sun to have light ?
n the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
time space and matter
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light
boom and there was light
>>71125615
>a negative claim have no burden of proof
fuck off
If there are infinite real numbers between 0 and 1, how come the numbers continue from there? Checkmate atheists.
>>71125766
>Well, he is absent from logic as well, since he created took 6 days to create earth, but took one to create the stars, which are trillions of times bigger and sofisticiated than our little blue sphere.
The earth and its components (life) are way more complex than stars, the stars are just giant balls of gas held together by gravity and radiation.
>>71127678
If we were to count all real numbers between 0 and 1 we would never finish
>>71127678
Fucking platonists.
>>71126257
inb4 space jews
>>71125766
>>71126195
You're trying to equate creation to human craft. God can take as much or as little time as he wants.
>>71127516
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMDWWDZ8ozE
>>71126895
what sort of evidence would you consider acceptable when it comes to proving Gods existence?
>>71124406
Here's your response
>Empirical data of one that cannot be contained, weighed, measured or even touched.
Prove that anything metaphysical, conceptual or spiritual is real. Show me measurements of stress. Not the products nor the effects like hormones and bodily imbalances, but the substance called stress. It's the line of thinking.
And on the flip side, prove that there is no thing as stress despite the innumerable amount of results and by products that we know are a result of stress.
It's not something you can prove by science, only observe and assume it is the result of.
>>71128692
>prove
How to support someone who is scientifically illiterate trying. Only equations can be proven. Science is reliant on evidence.
The existence of a deity is not falsifiable. Don't try to apply the scientific method to it or you'll just look foolish.
>>71128978
>>>71128692 (You)
>>prove
>How to support someone who is scientifically illiterate trying. Only equations can be proven. Science is reliant on evidence.
My point, but worded better.
>The existence of a deity is not falsifiable. Don't try to apply the scientific method to it or you'll just look foolish.
Not falsifiable NOR confirmable. Hence why is referred to as a faith. Again, you worded my point better.
>>71128149
Made by Darren (((ARONOFSKI)))
>>71124406
Who else resurrected Christ?
>>71130041
there is no proof for that
>>71123799
Tbh, I don't have a problem with the idea of God himself, just a problem with organized religion. Keep in mind, guys, all three major monothestic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) were, at many points, changed to fit the agendas of whatever authority figure had the most control over the religion at the time.
Who's to say there isn't some omnipotent being out there, watching over us with unknown intention. Is it true that the miracle of humanity, this world, the universe, the laws of physics and why shit works, etc. just occurred by dumb luck? Shieeeet idfk, but sometimes, people who just spew "Gob isn'd real :DD gweres your ebidens" or "Gob is reel dodally my basdor dolt me :DDD" need to take a break from shitposting and think about it.
>mfw all of the edgy heretics and blasphemers on this website
>mfw they will all end up in hell and there is nothing I can do to reach their hardened hearts
>>71132059
>just occurred by dumb luck
Why not?
>>>71132205
We don't believe in hell.
>>71132521
>We don't believe in hell.
You can refuse to believe a Grizzly bear is dangerous. This will not prevent a mauling.
>>71132205
Basically this.
>>71132654
Your scare tactics don't work on us
>>71132980
You can either choose to act like a human being, or let Satan influence your decisions.
The choice is up to you. God gave us free will to make us prove ourselves. Will you prove yourself?
>>71132980
Ultimately, that really isn't my problem. Though I do very much care for you and hope that you change your ways when you are ready to do so.
>>71132980
no archeological discovery has ever contradicted a single biblical reference
The thing is why do you guys believe 1 day for god is the same as 1 day for us?
>>71127908
That have millions and millions of differeny planets, suns and other possible lifeforms.
Also, it contradicts God beinb omnipotent.
>>71128111
It was never explain why, tho.
There was no reason to delay his "omnipotency'
God doesn't exist in time. It's not a question of where God came from, but why we're here. God is basically there.
>>71133275
So?
>>71133795
Please elaborate.
>>71126443
>time before the existence of time was infinitely long
it could not be long, because it didn't exist, things that don't exist don't have properties like "long" or "short."
>>71128307
Well, any evidence that proves that this being exists in a certain aspect of scientifically argumented reality would suffice.
If we could detect his infinite energy, see a sipernatural miracle happen as said in the bible or God himself.
If Jesus came back from the heavens and proved without a doubt that he had Godly superpowers would be cool as well.
>>71130609
There is. Hold on
>>71130609
>>71130041
Do you have proof that Jesus existed or resurrected?
Pretty sure there's a reason miracles happened less the better we got at recording history. Religion is pretty dumb in general.
>>71134474
>If Jesus came back from the heavens and proved without a doubt that he had Godly superpowers would be cool as well.
He will.
>>71124570
>Mexican intellectuals
>>71134902
The evidence for the historicity of Jesus is actually better than for most ancient historic figures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
Pic not really but slightly related
>>71132059
Jesus is the antichrist, do oppossite as he says with lots of deceit and hypocrisy so as to not get caught and ask god to reveal to you his tenets by means of a christian who can do actual miracles proper of a god.
See these "evil" intentions in your heart? They were planted there by God, since you live in a world filled with demons who hate mankind.
It's not evil, evil is breaking those commandments you don't know about, just love your brothers mankind and hate these faggots, especially jesus preachers and worshippers.
Do not acquire any of the qualities jesus wants you to have.
And demand proof when they come to your door to show you the true way, ask for things that are worthy of a god.
>>71125457
Do you have any evidence that the people you sacrifice keep the sun moving?
>>71123799
Honestly this is retarded and I'm not a Christ cuck.
There are Infinite numbers between 1 and 2
>1.99999999999999999999999...
>1.448492963907490272937490363......
By your definition, 2 shouldn't exist. Since 1.37393639.... Can be a measurement, 2" should be infinite distance
>>71135304
And laugh and gloat whenever they get hit by terrorist attacks and such because such is the wrath of God against them.
>>71132205
Good.
I thinl Lucifer if the hero of the fictional story that is the bible.
In case you are right, i would prefer to go to hell than to stay with a serial murderer for eternity.
>>71130609
>>71134902
The empty grave, visions of Christ after his death and the martyrian testimony of his disciples. The resurrection of Christ is the best if not only explanation for these.
>>71134926
Almost like certain proof for the divine is against God's plan (for now). Btw miracles still happen
>>71135304
Jesus said he is god, that proves he is the antichrist, be advised.
>>71132654
Do you have evidence of hell?
>>71133203
>God gave us free will, but if we do something the chruch doesnt aprove of, then Satan is controlling you
That's not free will.
>>71135191
As a Christian, your pic is something I sometimes refer to, but a good counter is that the New Testament is discussing things that are so important they require that much greater evidence for.
>>71133275
Yes it has.
There are no evidence of a great flood ever happening nor a Garden of Eden.
>>71123799
The reason you are confused is because you are trying to deal with the concept of infinity. Good luck, Chuck. I think that the scholar you need to read in order to solve your question is actually a Dutch philosopher by the name of Baruch Spinoza.
Read Descartes' Meditations, then Spinoza's Principles of Cartesian Philosophy, and finish that off with Spinoza's most important work, Ethics.
>>71135760
The bible is filled with lies, the guy posted as christ is the antichrist, he hates mankind so he has them behaving like drooling retards and rejecting pussy and all things fun and deviant that our hearts desire.
>>71135760
>nor a Garden of Eden
Wut?
>>71135445
Yes, but if every number was a second...
>>71124232
By that definition God is cruel and sadistic.
Millions of years before you were even born, he already knew the decisions you would make and whether or not you would burn in hell for eternity based on those decisions. He therefore creates your "soul" knowing that it will be tormented forever. Foreknowledge also negates the entire concept of free will.
>>71136181
>God is cruel and sadistic
He loves His sons, don't worry if you are actually a human being and not some faggot demon you will figure out that the path of pussy, ass and adultery is the way of christ and you will pray to know the commandments and so on while hating the world.
>>71136333
I've seen miracles myself, your argument is invalid.
>>71135816
You could just explain how I'm wrong instead of directing me to random books by famous people.
>>71136181
>Foreknowledge also negates the entire concept of free will
How so?
>>71136438
Because if I know you are retarded somehow your retardation is my fault.
Hello, reminder that if the Bible is true, then Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. You worship a Jew. Good job idiots.
>>71136438
How do you really have free will if I already know what you are going to do before you do it? It means your path is pre-determined.
>>71135191
>The evidence for the historicity of Jesus is actually better than for most ancient historic figures
>better than for Caesar
>better than for Cicero
>better than for Alexander and the Diadochi
>better than for literally any ruler or politician or artist
don't make me laugh. The historicity of the nativity, for instance, is already thoroughly debunked. Augustus carried out 3 major censuses in his lifetime, but none that coincided with the alleged birth of Christ. Additionally, Quirinius was NOT the governor of Syria during the alleged date Christ was born.
The evidence for a historical Jesus is very, very weak. Most probably there was some approximate millenarian individual, who quite honestly believed he had a divine mandate and probably believed that the world was coming to an end within the lifetime of the apostles. Jesus Christ as portrayed in the Bible is entirely fictional.
>>71136690
>How do you really have free will if I already know what you are going to do
Let's see, you are retarded (this is a fact actually).
How is it my fault that you are retarded if I know you will only do retarded things?
>>71136690
No. It doesn't. You still have the choice
>>71136412
You're not wrong and you are asking a valid question. There are countless logical problems with the Christian, transcendent God. That is why many religious arguments are arguments from faith. To the cynic, arguments from faith are straight up bullshit. To the faithful, arguments from faith drive home the point that God is simply beyond human understanding - and that God has our best interests in mind.
Spinoza solved this problem by arguing for an immanent, infinite, and impersonal God. God is literally all of existence, which is infinite, and of which we occupy and observe just a tiny portion.
The problem with your argument, however, is you're trying to rationalize infinity. That is impossible by the very nature of the concept.
>>71136799
If YOU created me then it means that you are the retard doesn't it?
>>71123799
>>71136401
>>71136870
No, it means that you were made retarded, and made retarded choices, you would have gone one way or the other and if I were a creator with such power, I would still know every possible outcome.
Stop doing and saying retarded things like the retard you are.
See how you were retarded?
>>71136804
No you don't if those choices are punished/rewarded within a realm completely controlled by someone who already knows the outcomes.
>>71136949
Your mum said I was miraclous last nite.
>all these edgy 16 year olds going full tip
kill yourselves lmao
daily morality man reminder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVEM2y-NhRo
>>71136722
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luH581hVdXw
>Jesus Christ as portrayed in the Bible is entirely fictional
Source?
>>71125941
>beliefs of lack of them
I can bet you were never harassed, bullied or threatened by a Christian because you were an atheist.
You just want to "shit on those dumb christfags" because you feel like it.
>>71123799
God created time
Also funny when science is asked the same in regards to big bang the answer is that before the big bang created space there was no time and therefore it always existed.
>>71137007
How does this take away from my choice? You're only repeating yourself not explaining
>>71137085
>morality
what morality retard, show me your divine authority doing a miracle to see that what you claim is moral or suck a donkey dick and spit the semen in your mothers face.
>>71125941
please anon use this doll to tell me where the christfag touched you anon
>>71126143
mormon call God "the creator of worlds" so i thing they'd had no problem with that
>>71136668
Don't forget Joseph was literally a cuck. Is it any wonder christfags of all stripes are so weak and pathetic?
>>71137240
It is the illusion of choice, because god controls the variables that lead to your choices.
Imagine God gave gave you a written test, if you pass he gives you 10 million dollars, if you fail you are brutally tortured for days. But he set up the test knowing what answers you would give before he even created you, which means he created you the way you are knowing what choices it will result in.
>>71137155
Per the video:
Nothing wrong with the first point, I'll concede that subjects were sometimes ordered to return to their place of birth.
Second point:
>Herod's kingdom of Judea was not autonomous
>Therefore this means Augustus conducted a non-existent census in the kingdom
Wrong. Again, Augustus was very proud of the censuses he carried out, and he mentioned them all in the Res Gestae. The census mentioned in the Bible is not mentioned in the Res Gestae, so that alone is proof that the video doesn't address.
The third point is just mincing words about the word 'census' so that Luke doesn't appear so wrong.
The fourth point relies on the existence of a census in the first place, which there never was.
>>71138325
No the spiritual and biological world are separated. How does God control the outcome of whether or not I jerk off right now?
>>71138529
>whether or not I jerk off right now?
Who told you jerking off was bad? Are you insane? Doesn't it feel like a gift of god? You need mental help
>>71138529
But he does.
He created you with a a sex-drive that needs to be satisfied, he created you mind and determined your hormone levels and virtually every other variable related to your biology which results in you having to jerk off.
>>71135309
Sacrifice?
Like, Yugioh or something?
Also, the Sun doesn't move at all.
>>71138749
The church. No. No. No.
>>71138898
So? How does that take away from my freedom to choose?
You're still just repeating yourself. Also
>not being compatibilist
Let's face it you don't know about free will and just repeat after atheists
>>71125941
Atheist here
>disproven by science
You're a fucking idiot
>>71135562
Can you tell me where this grave is?
Can you give me a register of all the witnesses that saw Jesus outside of the grave?
Do you have a record of his execution?
Was this documented in anything aside from the bible?
>>71139150
>The church
I haven't seen a single miracle worthy of a god from their part, so they can get raped, tortured and skinned alive for all I care.
>>71137085
>everyone who doesn't believe in my religion is just an edgy teen!
Well aren't you a narcissistic little cocksucker.
>>71136007
So, can you tell me where it is?
Genesis clearly states it's on earth.
>>71136438
Because god could have created the world differently. Meaning that god chose to make the world where you go to hell, instead of choosing to make the world where you go to heaven.
If god is omniscient and all powerful, he gave life to people with the intention of sending them to hell.
Answer this: Why and how is infinity possible?
>>71139522
God does it, lol
>>71125766
>took 6 days to create earth, but took one to create the stars
Maybe creating the earth was like, really boring. So maybe he worked a little bit on it for a few days and kept getting distracted? Stars are like super cool so he was probably really focused on making those.
>>71139594
That's the funny thing about know-it-allism
>>71139326
>Can you tell me where this grave is?
No it was obviously accesible knowledge in Jerusalem at that time though.
>Can you give me a register of all the witnesses that saw Jesus outside of the grave?
Yes. It's in the bible
>Do you have a record of his execution?
Yes. Again.
>Was this documented in anything aside from the bible?
Not that I'm aware of
>>71135988
Indeed.
They believe in a holy book that has major similarities with other religions that existed before.
This alone would make anyone doubt it's validity.
>>71139629
I say again, since you seem to be obtuse: the bible is full of lies because satan rewrote it.
The world is filled to the brim with demons, so being humble is out of question because you are a son of god among demons, and imagine the behaviour you have to have among such people:
Jesus is the antichrist.
>>71136181
Yes.
And don't forget the mass murder, arrogance and hatred for any group of people that do not even know him. (If he was omnipresent, wouldn't he be able to tell anyone his will and message at any time without doubt, don't you think?)
>>71139446
No he gave them the freedom to choose
>>71136325
Then, you have no free will, since he knows your future, also making prayer useless.
>>71136181
As post #1 ,>>71124232, said God see all paths you may or may not take.
He give you free will and hopes you follow the ones that lead you back home to him.
>>71136401
Like what?
Is it supernatural?
Have you taken a picture?
Also, do you have evidence that it cannot be replicated and it's part of God's will?
>>71139973
This has been already answered, you potato.
>>71136972
Apply yourself retard.
>>71140071
If you're so caring about evidence start disobeying jesus like there's no tomorrow and ask god to send you true christians that do miracles in front of you.
DISOBEY JESUS.
>>71123799
>believing that we are just bacteria on a rock that just "existed" for no reason
:)
>>71139899
That would be true if God didn't know which choices you would take in your life.
If you consider that to be true, then God is not omniscient.
>>71123799
God created time. He is above and beyond it.
"Omnipresent" does not only refer to space...
>>71139629
You do know that the earth is insignificant compared to the rest of the universe?
>>71140284
He knows but doesn't intervene. How are the two connected?
>>71140361
Yeah that's pretty much what I said. The earth is like homework. The rest is like anime.
>>71139150
Would you still jerk off if you were not biologically engineered to want to do it?
Even if we ignore all the unique biological traits that make you, you:
Would you have made the same choices if you had different parents? Would you have made the same choices if you were born in a different country? Would you have made the same choices if you were born 10 years later? If you were more attractive or less attractive? If you had slightly higher/lower intelligence?
All these and countless other variables have a direct influence on the choices you make.
God knows which combination of variables result in which outcomes - so hence the illusion of choice. He can change your choices by changing the variables.
>>71139674
>Knowledge of Jerusalem.
Isn't it weird that the location of the grave of their lord and saviour was lost in time?
Finding it would have been a very important task, don't you think?
Why hasn't anyone reported it's location on 2000 years?
>The register and the record are both in the bible, but not in amy other books nor reports
Don't you think there is something fishy about that?
I mean, there are things that are in the bible that have not been put in history books nor documents in any kind, like King Herodes's baby massacre.
>>71140537
>implying any of this takes away from free will
>still not being compatibilist
>>71139842
Do you have any evidence Lucifer re-wrote the bible?
To the census pham I never could be bothered with this till now so I can't really give a conclusive opinion. Please read http://www.catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/does-luke-contradict-himself-on-when-jesus-was-born and raise objections iif you have them
>>71124232
>>71125615
please go to youtube comment section and come back when you grow up
>>71140759
Says in there that sex is bad
>>71140167
I want you to repeat it to me, or at least link me to the evidence you claim to be worth a miracle.
-
Don't you think it's contradictory that searching for answers about our reality is disobeying Jesus but obeying Jesus is not against free will and suggests that ignorance is acceptable and prefered?
Also, which miracles can the Christians do?
Can they move mountains? Cure the sick? Split the sea in two?
>>71140694
>Isn't it weird that the location of the grave of their lord and saviour was lost in time?
Not really if you consider that Christinity was a small jewish persecuted sect in a roman world and that Jerusalem was conquerred many times by non-christians throughout history
>Finding it would have been a very important task, don't you think?
No why?
>Why hasn't anyone reported it's location on 2000 years?
Now you're just being retarded. How could anyone who hasn't lived back then report on where it is?
>Don't you think there is something fishy about that?
No why? The death penalty for a religious nutcase isn't something to write books about when paper was ridiculously expensive. You seem to lack basic infos on the history of the church and how they were treated for the first couple centuries
>>71141012
>which miracles can the Christians do?
They can turn you into a grill if you are into dicks.
Yes, those and more.
>>71140259
At least we have evidence that suggests that possibility.
Also, we are not really that important to the rest of the universe, you know?
Not even our galaxy is big compared to the others we've encountered.
>>71140974
Where?
>>71141135
>thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind
>thou shall not practice homosex
>thou shall not swallow horse sperm
>kill the one who fucks an animal
>>71141012
>Don't you think it's contradictory that searching for answers about our reality is disobeying Jesus but obeying Jesus is not against free will and suggests that ignorance is acceptable and prefered?
Since you have to refrain to such cheap and surreal strawmen we can assert you have no real argument and ignore you right?
>>71140291
Omnipresent would imply he is already everywhere.
Thus making Jesus and the missionaries insignificant, since he can already tell anyone about his message at the same time.
>>71139899
>No he gave them the freedom to choose
Yes, he gave them the freedom to choose, but even with freedom of choice, he could have made a world where they chose differently.
Choices are partially (if not wholly) informed by our environment.
>>71141208
And where does it say sex is bad?
>>71123799
Time had a beginning when the world was created. God resides in a different dimension.
>>71125357
what a complete niggershit fallacious "Arguement"
>>71140492
Because, if God created someone and he knows that person will commit sin and go to hell, god would have already known your future and actions well before you were born and had 'free will".
In that scenario, God created you to go to hell.
>>71141297
>Choices are partially (if not wholly) informed by our environment.
No not really. Moral decisions are always accesible and nothing you need to learn. The fact that you know there is a "nice" choice and an "unnice" choice already gives you the ability to pick the "nice" one
>>71135191
this is still no proof that magic happend, its only proof that someone created a bible to gain power over people . give to ceasar ,pay your tax
>>71141501
>Moral decisions are always accesible and nothing you need to learn.
Is that why owning people used to be considered okay?
>>71141458
No. He created you to choose yourself where you head. I fucking swear stop repeating yourself if you don't raise any points or react to any objections.
>>71140736
It takes away free will because God already knew your future.
He creates people that he knows will go to hell.
Thus, no free will, since God already knows what choices will they make and result on his highway to hell.
>>71140736
You don't seem to be grasping the concept.
The only way you can have free will is if god did not create you or anyone else and if he has no influence over you and no idea what choices you are going to make.
If we go back and forth in time and observe you, you will always make the same decisions over and over again unless you or your environment are altered to result in different decisions. If I were God, I could make you go to heaven or hell, by merely changing your variables.
>>71141575
>to gain power over people
This is so stupid I can't even be bothered to refute it
>>71123799
>confusing the fourth dimension with others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA
>>71135562
this is all true when you asume the bible is true, still no proof
>>71141501
>No not really. Moral decisions are always accesible and nothing you need to learn. The fact that you know there is a "nice" choice and an "unnice" choice already gives you the ability to pick the "nice" one
So can you explain why people born in muslim choose completely different things, on average, than people born in america? or in china? or in russia?
The values of the people around you have informed your views on things to some degree... and have consequently informed some of your choices.
Even being educated in logic and clear thinking can help you make better moral decisions.
>>71140917
So, if you are a christian, you don't deserve being called a child or a youtube comentor?
Some bias.
>>71140974
Doesn't God punish pre-marital sex?
Because....he does.
And, how can you know what was written by "God" or Lucifer?
>>71141632
>He creates people that he knows will go to hell.
>Thus, no free will,
freedom of your faculty of will is your ability to make choices, not your ability to make choices without any consequences
>>71123799
Dude there's better fiction out there!
>>71141632
>He creates people that he knows will go to hell.
No
>Thus, no free will, since God already knows what choices will they make and result on his highway to hell.
HOW. are the two connected? Why does God knowing what I choose take away from my abilityto? I will not respond if you repeat this a 30th time
>>71141644
>The only way you can have free will is if god did not create you or anyone else and if he has no influence over you and no idea what choices you are going to make.
No
>If we go back and forth in time and observe you, you will always make the same decisions over and over again unless you or your environment are altered to result in different decisions.
Source?
>>71123799
>infinitely long
>can't come to an end
You just don't understand numbers
>>71141755
What? You know we have extra biblical evidence for this? How christians begged to be murdered to die as martyrers?
>>71136333
he gave fags aids , not so long ago we had a thing called black dead, just because you dont see miracles does not mean they dont happen
>>71141772
>So can you explain why people born in muslim choose completely different things, on average, than people born in america? or in china? or in russia?
Because they are muslim?
>The values of the people around you have informed your views on things to some degree... and have consequently informed some of your choices.
>Even being educated in logic and clear thinking can help you make better moral decisions.
No doubt
>>71141099
>Christianity was a 'small' jewish persecuted sect (And still is)
Now, don't you think the resurrection of a human being that was executed in public would habe gained some interest?
>Findin the tomb
Well, if you can prove it's Jesus's grave, then you would have more evidence about Jesus existing in the first place.
>Report in 2000 years
Because they would try to find it.
You know, in 2016, Christianity is a pretty large religion, wouldn't anyone wish to prove their religion is right while atheists, buddists, Islamics and all other religions are wrong?
No one has found that grave.
>>71123799
>>71124570
God exists outside of space and time.
>>71126368
Nothing is proven by science, only strongly suggested. If you were a scientist, you would know these things.
You would also know that theoretical physics is a meme field.
>>71142054
Therefore the environment informs decisions.
Therefore, there's some subset of people who would have chose differently if they had been in a different environment.
God knew this, and chose to put them in the world where they would undoubtedly be damned to hell.
>>71141121
Okay, turn someone into a girl.
I'll wait for the video of the instant transformation here.
>>71141242
It's an argument based on a "2000 year old book", you know?
If there was any evidence of any fact the bible states, everyone would believe in it, don't you think?
>>71142076
>Now, don't you think the resurrection of a human being that was executed in public would habe gained some interest?
It did. It created the biggest religion in the world
>Well, if you can prove it's Jesus's grave, then you would have more evidence about Jesus existing in the first place.
How? The whole point is he isn't in there anymore.
>You know, in 2016, Christianity is a pretty large religion, wouldn't anyone wish to prove their religion is right while atheists, buddists, Islamics and all other religions are wrong?
>No one has found that grave.
Is this bait?
>>71141307
He is saying some forms of sex are bad.
Thus, a contradiction.
>>71141617
If he gave you the ability to chose, then God has no bussiness knowing your future.
>>71139138
He's referring to Aztec practices of human sacrifice.
Additionally, the sun is actually hurling along at about 483,000mph/792,000kph; we both know that the galaxy is ever a-whirling, so I'll just assume you had a brain fart.
I wish this Christfag meme would just leave /pol/ forever. You retards fell for the greatest Jewish hoax of all time.
>>71142054
And why are they Muslim?
If you had Muslim parents, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, neighbors, teachers etc etc... you are virtually guaranteed to become Muslim.
Just as you are virtually guaranteed to be a Christian if you were born in the US bible belt to Christian parents in a christian community.
You imply that you would be Christian no matter where you were born.
>>71142186
Isn't it more likely their parents brought them into this world?
Btw that mankind will go to hell is a consequence of original sin and the whole reason we need absolution. This isn't a point against Christianity as rather against "positive" religions
>>71124406
>>71124570
Do you have any scientific evidence that proves life has an intrinsic value?
Why aren't you a nihilist(cuckologist)?
>>71142450
>You imply that you would be Christian no matter where you were born.
How so? You don't have to be christian to act decent
>>71142468
>Isn't it more likely their parents brought them into this world?
God created the world where their parents would do that.
Omniscience+Omnipotence means that everything that happens was chosen to happen by god. He could have created a different world where their parents freely chose to not have kids.
Even original sin was part of god's will. It can't not be his will.
>>71141844
All choices have consequences those can be considered good or bad based on our society, yes.
But if God knows about your future, he already knows every choice you'll make, thus,;you have no free will.
>>71141889
Imagine this scenario.
before Kyle were 'created', God knows that Kyle will die after murdering his wife and go to hell.
Kyle has no way to defy God's vision of him, since god is omniscient and knows what he will do.
If his path was already traced from the instant he is born, there is no free will.
>>71142151
Okay, pal.
Gravity is 'heavely suggested'.
Now, try to jump real high or scape the atmosphere.
Please reply and tell me your results.
Your picture is a little off, OP
>>71142673
Is it not possible that God is capable of seeing many (read: a near-infinite number of) paths borne of your free will, and that being able to see such is another quality of omniscience?
If god is unaffected by time, that means he is unchanging. If he is unchanging, then it's impossible for him to suddenly have decided to create the universe, which means he must have created it at the exact moment when he came into existence. If we assume that time is linear, then by this logic we can deduce that both God and the universe must have had a beginning, so the assertion that God has existed for an infinite amount of time is illogical. For god to have existed for an infinite amount of time, then, it is necessary to assume that time is cyclical in nature.
>>71142468
>is a consequence of original sin
So god tortured and killed himself in order to give himself permission to forgive you for the engineering flaws he engineered you with. And if you are not thankful for this he will let his greatest engineering fuckup ever (Lucifer) torment you for eternity? And he punishes us for other people's mistakes via original sin, because he allowed this evil creature into paradise to corrupt us.
>>71142237
>It created the biggest religion in the world
no evidence of said grave has yet to be found.
Why would i believe you if you do not have evidence?
I can tell you that i have a magic penguin that can travel thru multiverses in my garage, would you believe me?
>He is't there anymore
Then, how would we know he was there in the first place?
>Bait
No, it's logic.
>>71142406
I was making fun of him.
>>71142530
Value?
Not really, we give ourselves value by various means, like society, self-persevation, family, etc.
But one thing is clear, we have no special value from being born, you have to gain it.
>>71142642
>Omniscience+Omnipotence means that everything that happens was chosen to happen by god
No.
>>71134902
Four Gospels and a lot more of apocryphs, the testimony (Epistles) and predication of contemporaneous disciples and Apostles who died for Jesus' sake (they wouldn't have if he had been a fraud), the reaction of the Jewish clergy with the early redactions (meditations about it must have come even sooner) of the Talmud as a reaction to Jesus' claims to be the Messiah and the growth of his believers, no contradiction at all for him having existed nor resurrected despite a multitude of secular and religious witnesses in Judea.
This is more than you could ask for anyone who wasn't an official person in Antiquity.
>>71142530
This is why our country is shit, because cucks like you manipulated by jewish intellectuals.
Stop sucking Frida Khalo's cock and start reading about Iturbide, cristeros, hernan cortes and the conquest, you may learn something about honor and patria, maldito cerdo marxista chairo
>>71143122
Can you not speak about things you know nothing about?
>>71142839
Even if God was able to see every possible path you take, it implies he already knew every since posible choice you could make and each of the posible endings.
Thus, you still don't have free will, since each path has already been traced.
>>71142947
/thread
>>71143146
So then are you saying that god could not have created a world where it didn't happen?
Or are you saying that when he created the world, he didn't know it would happen?
>>71123799
In math, we can have functions that are infinitely continuing in certain directions, but then have real points where they do no exist. To show this we typically indicate the direction of infinity. So your graph that you made would be incorrect as you have drawn it. You would have to indicate the direction of infinity. If you put a negative sign on the infinity before God created the world it would be correct. You would also need to put a positive symbol on the infinity after apocalypse.
>>71123799
>trying to make sense of God's timeline when He exists independent of time
Topkek. Atheists are nature's idiots.
>>71143131
>Then, how would we know he was there in the first place?
Because he got killed.
>No, it's logic
Logic doesn't mean what you think it does. And you are not concluding logically
You're being deliberately ignorant in an attempt to find ANY argument.
There's also a church upon the place where his grave is believed to be but you can't let facts challenge your narrative. Because that would require thinking for yourself instead of just being smug about religion like you learned on reddit
>>71143283
If I don't know what I'm talking about, just point out the fallacies Hans.
>>71143146
Omniscient means that he knows everything. (Even how it feels to have lust or commit sin, making God an hypocrite.)
And Omnipotent means that he can do virtually anything. (Which puts in doubt why he needed to rest the 7th day and that it took him 6days to create the universe. Also, he chose to flood the world instead of mind washing everyone into thinking what he wants everyone to think.)
>>71143529
Actually he's pointing out that god's timeline is nonsense. Glad you agree.
>>71143422
Neither. This dichotomy isn't real
>>71143544
>He got kill
How can we know he got killed?
>Logic is not comparing arguments to other things we consider provable or argumentable in our context.
Okay, pal.
>>71143580
>Even how it feels to have lust or commit sin, making God an hypocrite
No
>le literal Genesis strawman
I'm leaving this thread now. This is getting annoying
>>71143725
So did god choose to make this world instead of choosing to make the world where the event didn't happen?
If god COULD have made a different world, and chose not to, it means he chose the events that occur in this world. They happened because he chose to make THIS world, instead of THAT world.
Explain how this is not his choice.
>>71142822
>>71123799
>if it's infinitely long, how come it can have an end?
Negative part of any axis checks in.
>>71143840
>I'm leaving this thread now. This is getting annoying
Oh how unfortunate! He realized he was wrong and suddenly got annoyed.
>>71126218
lol what? That's like saying "you don't have any evidence of unicorns NOT existing!" Like unicorns, there is no evidence a god exists.
>>71143840
If God doesnt know how it feels to have sex with Johny Deep, then he is not omniscient.
>>71123799
The universe is a timeline, which god plays through an infinite amount of times exploring all variations, and harvests the precious knowledge to add to His universal understanding
The apocalypse simply ends this iteration and begins the next
>>71143919
The autism hurts.
>Putting the apocalypse all the way over there
>>71125357
Noone* claims to prove existence of God scientifically. Most of christians either are comfortable believing for themselves or spread faith as, well, "faith". A small percentage plays devil's avocado against cosmogonic theories science puts out like Big Bang. It's always atheists that start "prove existence of God scientifically" arguments, see OP.
*exceptions apply
>>71144191
nah its just stupid to say that god needed rest while it is in the bible that he rested from his work. as in it is done no more creating
>And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
.
Logic doesn't apply to God because he's above all of us, according to christians anyway.
They can dismiss all logic with that, it's pretty much impossible to get them to use reason.
This could be a good reading to people who claim the Gospels are a fiction made up about an allegorical Jesus, and to people who believe in the Gospels and need material to answer their contradictors : The Napoleon Myth, by Jean-Baptiste Pérès
https://archive.org/stream/napoleonmythcont00evanuoft/napoleonmythcont00evanuoft_djvu.txt
>>71145544
thanks pierre
>>71135664
That's also *not* what he said. You're putting words in his mouth.
