Minimum Wage to $15 - HOW THE FUCK
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Currently the nation-wide minimum wage in America is $7.25.
Comrade Sanders wants push this up to a nation-wide $15. This is because, and I quote: "Higher is better".
Is this Jew deliberately trying to crash the US?
How can doubling the minimum wage in one go not go wrong? That burger that, and I quote: "would go up a FEW cents", will be more than double the price. This is insane.
It's not all at once. But 15 is quite high for low cost of living States.
This is 'barely-graduated-high-school' speculation, but I would think this jump in minimum wage is more easy to sustain in heavily populated Urban areas due to large traffic and business. It's when you get out further, into the small towns and rural areas, that this innovation will truly start to cripple, or at least wound businesses because they tend not to make the kind of profits that can take a near-doubling of employee wages.
>>71015960
One - if health care is free and payed for by wallstreet higher taxation, small business will actually benefit because they wont have to pay for their employee's health
Two - its is an icremental increase over a few years and that definitely needs to be taken into account
Three - Higher minimum wage mean HUGE currency circulation because minimum wage workers will have more disposable income, you capitalist will know that when people are spending the country benefits
Theres a few other points as to why the same fucking minimum wage used by people decades ago who didnt have to deal with inflated rates of the currency without a proportioned raised simultaneously by minimum isnt gonna work in the 21st century but il let you reply to this first.
Bernie is king
>>71019919
you're wrong
Americans are underpaid, no doubt. But simply raising the minimum wage Country wide is a short term solution.
Once companies have to pay people more two things will happen:
1. Companies will move more jobs overseas
2. Companies will increase product price to compensate for wage increase.
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
One size fits all politics doesn't work when it comes to wages. People will starve in cities, and live like kings in rural areas.
States, Counties, and Cities should be responsible for setting their own minimum wage, the government should just set a minimum, not 15, probably around 9.
>>71015960
Once you guys increase your HDI, you could put it up.
NOT SO FAST AMERICASTAN
>$15 national min wage
>thinking its impact on the quality of life in New York will be the same as a $15 in Buttfuck, Kansas.
most retarded thing i've ever heard
>>71019919
lol what a fucking idiot. Higher minimum wage means higher currency circulation? The value of the dollar will decrease proportionally, so nothing changes
>>71019919
You can't change the fundamental laws of economics. They are literally set in stone like the laws of physics.
If you increase the min wage, people WILL lose their jobs, prices WILL increase, and those people making minimum wage will STILL be broke niggers.
It won't happen over night, but it will happen.
>>71020278
Wrong where? And no your opinion being different does not mean i am wrong, why? Because im fucking right and if you stop lying to yourselves about trump you would see that no real change will come for the average person in u.s if trump is president apart from less muslims and more useless wars that will just fuck up your life even more, while if bernie wins rich who stole from you will pay for you
>>71021093
>Black unemployment is too high.
>We should double the cost to hire them.
Pick one.
>>71015960
I'm fine as long as my salary goes up
>>71021093
Your whole argument is delusional. You're an Irish faggot, Bernie shill with an agenda. You obviously don't understand even the basic principles of economics.
Go eat a potato you mick fuck!
>>71020974
>>71020979
See you people are still taking higher minimum wage to be the only thing planned there will be multiple counter measurement to hease the burden on business owners and the money they were paying for the health care of their employees will now be going to the pockets of their employees
>>71021217
I hope you realize you'll be paying more for everything and the raise in salary will not translate into a raise in your wealth
>>71015960
Are you SERIOUSLY trying to see reason in a socialist speech about economy?
>>71015960
It stems from people not being able to afford simple living expenses. Instead of increasing min wage to $15 they should lower property taxes to land owners so they will lower rent prices. Eliminate monopoloies and oligopolies regarding state wide energy companies, that will lower the cost of energy consumption bills because they wont be working together to hike the prices.
>>71021168
More like
>black unemployment is too high we should create more jobs by investing a trillion into modernising the country's infrastructure creating millions of jobs, while simultaneously taking the money the rich fuckers stole to ease the cost of education to go into these sector, while also giving people and businesses more disposable income by not forcing them to pay to live while not wasting an extra 500 billion on an oversized military and so on
Look at the big picture son
>>71021093
Im Canadian you fucking stupid blind mick cunt
I'm not even going to humor why you're so ridiculously wrong because if you had any amount of critical fucking thinking power you could figure it out yourself
tl;dr fuck up cunt
>>71015960
If raising the min wage isn't detrimental, why stop there? Why not 25/hr? Why not 40? Six figure wages for everyone!!!!
>>71021513
K. So how is Canada doing with all that socialism have you declared martial law? Depression? War?
>>71021284
YEAH, NO SHIT. He wants universal health care, guess where the money for universal health care comes from? Taxes. Your 15 dollar wage earner will make more...and get taxed more.
Nothing is free dumb-ass. You Bernouts don't have an economic leg to stand on.
>>71015960
What I don't understand is if you work a full time job at minimum wage, you are a fucking retard. You're wasting so much time working a job that pays you $7.25, when you can get the same amount of money from another job that pays more and gives less hours (which lets you work 2 jobs.) If you are above the age of 18 or an illegal immigrant, working at the minimum wage means you fail at life. I really don't see a point in raising it.
Shit, my first job ever paid me $9.25/25 hours a week and I had absolutely no experience.
>>71021610
You replied to me with some fucking retard incoherent blabbering about trump and bernie sanders and muslims(?) as if they're the only ones that have ever discussed a min wage
Don't worry though the anons in this thread will gladly tell you why you're a dumb cunt
This is what your typical "raise the minimum wage" advocator sounds like in interviews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3rFQwTWyRc
>>71021643
The fact that you think people working minimum wage losing 9- dollars a week to taxes while gaining 100s is a testiment to your blind fucking ignorance
>>71020440
Similar ideals to why unionisation has failed in a lot of industries. You raise the price of employment, they lower the amount they hire.
Leads to rises in unemployment as some of the government dependents start thinking that getting off their asses might be worth it for a change and enter the workforce.
Outsourcing is just the final fist up the ass.
>>71021643
>unironicly citing the source of a chinese owned "newspaper" paying sub minimum wage to children to crank out clickbait
Bern in hell.
>>71021588
>>71021588
THIS
SO MUCH THIS
How can this much epic be in one post
Upvoted my socialist friend, you are a gentleman and a scholar
Do these dumb asses really think raising the minimum to 15 will make everything ok? All that is going to do is raise the salary of everyone in every profession and cause the dollar to lose it's value.
>>71021643
why do you have to lie is it because your ideology is false?
>>71022002
>Do these dumb asses really think raising the minimum to 15 will make everything ok?
yes
>>71022002
thats not how the world works. not everything is based on service fees. most people over a certain amount are not paid by the hour. are you 6?
...not to mention the rise in product cost and loss of jobs.
Stop riding our dick EUROFAG!
>>71022018
>>71021899
>>71021848
Reddit, please go away.
Burgers will stay the same price. Companies will just move to robots. San Francisco has a $15 minimum wage, and it the only city where McDonalds has robotic burger makers and you order from a mounted screen instead of a person.
>>71015960
Over a period of years, with other breaks and benefits for businesses, minimum wage can be raised to 15 easily. It's not a hike, it's a raise over time. Probably like a dollar and some cents a year or something like that.
>>71022018
Ugh it is Reddit, should have known...
>>71021588
Well look at it this way if wages are such a problem why give minimum wage why not work for 4/hour? 2? Hell work for free out of patriotism for your country?
This shit works both ways obvious a goldie lock zone is needed an 15 is alot closer to that zone than 7.25 for sustaining people in this era
>>71019919
If I'm making $15 now, will my wages go up too? And if the increase is not proportional to minimum, why wouldn't I be upset that my work is devalued?
>>71015960
Nyet, comrade.
Please be remove self to the reddit
>>71022211
i used a touch screen to order in a mcdonalds in the 90s in the midwest
if you werent 11 youd have more perspective.
>>71022272
>why not work for 4/hour? 2? Hell work for free out of patriotism for your country?
holy fuck
this is bait confirmed
>>71019919
>muh walstreet
walstreet isn't a magic pot of gold, dipshit. You aren't going to be able to just take whatever you want from it with feel the bern as president. Also, what about people who don't want healthcare? Why are we charging them for other people's luxuries?
>>71022018
Notice how their reply is "huh reddit why must you be so correct"
Fucking kek i know this is a board where edgyness is approved but to literally be indenial on reality is another issue
Its a Jewish tactic to kill small business. Everyone knows McDonalds and WalMart can afford it. Employee costs are a pretty small percentage of their expenses.
Employee costs are much more significant to small businesses. A hike in minimum vastly disproportantly affects small businesses, which is the big corps are all behind it.
Instead of raising the minimum wage why don't we totally abolish property and income tax. The majority of that at the federal level goes to the Pentagon anyway which currently refuses to be audited. A lot of fraud waste and abuse going on there. Why not give businesses who are fiscally responsible, a break instead of corrupt government bureaucrats?
>>71022272
A small gradual increase is fine (like we've been doing), not doubling the fucking wage!
It doesn't matter he's not even gonna get his own nom.
>>71022308
using a touch screen to order and having your burger made by a robot are two different things
>>71022280
If you're making 15 now your work will be devalued. I dont ignore that, that is why this change is happening over 7 years 50cents at a time so there is a readjustment period
>>71015960
Ok guys, no trolling here. Being honest.
Here the minimum wage is 15$ and im on it. I just make it fine.
How can people live on half f it?
Surely there are arguments on each side: for increasing the minimum wage, keeping it the same, eliminating it, etc.
Let the states decide. Don't force the whole country into an inefficient one-size-fits-all solution.
The federal government is struggling with all of the tasks it continues to delegate to itself. If we allow the states to focus on the things they should focus on, and the federal government to focus on its own enumerated duties, things will work out better and everyone will be happier.
>>71022272
"Sure, I'll work for $4 an hour", said Pedro the illegal
>>71015960
He said in the debate last night that the $15/hour minimum wage would bring jobs back to the US.
>>71018134
If your business relies on being able to pay employees so little that they have to get welfare and food stamps while also working for you full time then you should not have a business.
> people are starving
> "hey, i know! let's increase minimum wage!"
> everybody has more money
> but net resource amount stays the same
> only creates inflation and unemployment
socialists so smart
>>71015960
>is a Socialist Jew trying to crash the US?
This is a rhetorical question right?
>>71021512
>minimum wage was designed from the ground up to stop low skilled black workers from being able to work by creating a price floor that made it impossible to hire them for the value of work they could do.
>it was insititued quite literally to keep blacks from.working and to protect expensive Union labor.
>it was also implemented in apartheid South Africa for the exact same reason
>huuuuurrrr minimum wage doesn't do that
Even such horrid biased right wing institutions as the San Francisco Federal reserve have done extensive studies showing that minimum wage laws create and very minimal increase in unemployment across the board but cause a very high acute increase in young low skilled workers and even more so in young black workers.
And this is a reflection of the vast majority of these studies.
>>71019919
>One - if health care is free and payed for by wallstreet higher taxation, small business will actually benefit because they wont have to pay for their employee's health
THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKING IN RECORD AMOUNTS OF REVENUE LIKE NEVER BEFORE SEEN
IT SPENDS SO MUCH MONEY AND IS SO HUGE THAT IT BORROWS 33 CENTS FOR EVERY DOLLAR IT TAKES IN
AMERICANS ALREADY PAY SUCH ASTRONOMICALLY HIGH TAXES ACROSS ALL BRACKETS THAT WE ARE THE LEAST FREE GENERATION
>raise taxes and spend more
YOU ARE RETARDED
>>71022496
By not being taxed to death on everything else.
Example:
In my area the price of a gallon of gas is $1.90 USD
In NZ, it'd be over $5 USD
>>71022496
LOL. You make New Zealand dollars, they're worthless, go ask for a raise.
>>71019919
use proper grammar so that I can easily comprehend your position.
>>71022364
>. You aren't going to be able to just take whatever you want from it with feel the bern as president
Yeah you are, if you get the majority of America behind, and everyone will be happy to tax wall street. The same fucks who ruin the economy every 10 years.
>people who don't want healthcare
That is a very small percent of the population, most people want healthcare and not have to pay thousands in co payments everytime they need medical help. They can also fuck imo, because this plan will save the majority of young and old Americans, thousands. This would be a system that's cheaper for most people period.
>>71022364
>other people's luxuries
The fact that you call something people rely on to live, a luxury, shows you're a dumbass.
Understand this, leaving the profit incentive in healthcare endangers the lives of millions depending on the mood of the economy. That is why, we must take the profit incentive out and pay for all medical service equally and at the actual cost needed for it, not more.
>>71022496
It's called your cost of living is retarded high.
>>71022496
Minimum wage is all relative and based on cost-of-living. 7.5 is too low, but a flat double increase is not a solution. Bernies policies will make rich people leave the country and ultimately the entire economy will be fucked with the poor being taxed massively.
>>71015960
>Support doubling the minimum wage
>Support open borders
>Complain about no jobs when all jobs are filled by illegals.
It's like these retards want to commit suicide.
>>71022496
By working 40-50 hours a week, yes, America is really that fucking greedy to not pay a decent minimum wage. In reality, it would be over 20 dollars had it kept up with inflation.
>>71022668
how much you pay for rent? Thats my main expense and it wont ever be lower than 150 pw
>>71022612
>only creates inflation and unemployment
>socialists so smart
It's like when MMOs add a few zeros to all the health damage mana resistance etc etc to the gear/characters for no other reason than to have bigger numbers.
>>71022605
I too like unemployment and wealth inequality
>>71022815
The minimum wage has to go higher, only a dumbass would disagree.
Open boarders are not the problem. The math shows that companies outsourcing and evading taxes, crucifies the middle class into not being able to start more businesses, that and an awful economy. The problem is job growth, not the abundance of hard honest workers.
>>71020440
Simple solutions:
1. Levy a tax on all outsourced positions that makes it more beneficial to keep the job in the US.
2. Companies can only ever charge so much for things. At some point people simply won't buy their shit. For instance, if a Big Mac goes from $5 to $5.99 you'll probably still buy it...but if McDonald's tried to raise the price to $15 they would go out of business. Simply raising prices is not a great option for companies. They would rather make less profit than no profit.
>>71019919
Ivory Coast tier economics desu senpai.
>>71020956
Do you think $15 in NYC is better than $7 in NYC?
>>71022721
>Understand this, leaving the profit incentive in healthcare endangers the lives of millions depending on the mood of the economy. That is why, we must take the profit incentive out and pay for all medical service equally and at the actual cost needed for it, not more.
Or we could get government out of the medicalcare and insurance markets(or even better start having hospitals that entirely cut out the insurance companies which the few that exist already have lower cost/prices than both insurance paid for medicalcare and government provided medicalcare) and let them work as they did much better in the past.
>government breaks your leg
>government gives you a crutch
>government tells you you wouldn't be able to walk without them.
>>71022914
Im stealing this example
$7.25 is just over £5
the minimun here is £7.20 which is $10. 20 cents.
$10.20 is not enough for us, $15 is reasonable, which is about £10. Differences in living costs yeah, but our government is now working to remove all of the gimmedats.
Obviously further measures have to be taken to stop compnay heads from cucking their own nation into obvlivion by going overseas and paying minimal tax at home, but thats no reason to want to want to actively preserve the cuckery that is your minimum wage, what the fuck is wrong with you?
>>71022398
Macdonalds and walmart will also be paying more taxes than small business and wont have to pay for their employee's healthcare
>>71022638
Well lets see how elective employers can be when third level education is alot more easily acquired
>>71022642
*raises taxes for the rich... not everyone else. You should make that distinction
>>71022914
Yes that is why every most european countries and canada are in ruins... just too much functional healthy socialism
>inb4 refugees , that has nothing to do with socialism.
>>71022850
>if it kept up with inflation.
this is the problem that flies over the heads of all the dumbasses blaming free market capitalist western liberty, they don't actually comprehend the cause of the wealth gap. And it's not because some people out there are smarter or luckier, or both, and have more money than you. The golf course owner down the street isn't out to fuck you up the ass.
>>71023116
>lower minimum wage means i'll be paid less
stop this meme
>>71022965
I have zero problem with income "inequality".
Should a garbage man get paid as much as a doctor?
Here's the issue, niggers don't want to work and have no skill, but want to get paid as if they do. Society see everyone equally so it acquiesces to the demands. It has no merit other than to make people feel good.
Why shouldn't worker who is in higher demand make more?
>>71023117
You don't turn a pure capitalist country into a socialistic one over night. The US simply can't handle it. The rich flee, the jobs go overseas and no one pays for what Bernie wants.
>>71023222
Read the context of my comment you fucking retard, you and me agree with each other. I was just telling anon what would happen if we shutdown every business that couldn't pay its employees $15 an hour.
>>71023007
The taxes would have to cost more than outsourcing, which likely won't happen.
Sure they won't double their price, but every company will raise their prices not just McDonald's.
>>71015960
Companies like Costco pay around $20 for a job that requires no education and has benefits. Minimum wage is for lazy niggers who don't ever want to leave the ghetto.
WHY NOT DEPORT ALL THE MEXICANS AND MUSLIMS FIRST THEN INCREASE THE MIN WAGE????
>>71023236
Not only is the u.s a country that currently uses socialistic regimes like social security and minimum wage it actually used to be alot more socialistic.
And its about to get alot more democratically socialist, to it benefit might i add, but i get your point and agree it must be eased into place
>hurr durr if minimum wage goes up PRICES GO UP
>minimum wage stays the same. PRICES STILL GOING UP
Where is your logic now?
>>71023117
>raises taxes for the rich... not everyone else. You should make that distinction
Shove that horse shit right back up your ass. I make 10 bucks an hour and a third of my paycheck goes into an entitlement system I have no consent in whatsoever.
The stupidity of being bribed with your own fucking money that should have never left your pocket to begin with is something you'd think 10 year old kids could figure out, but lo and behold we have no only fully grown adults but OLD PEOPLE who are actually dumb enough to eat it up and ask for seconds.
>>71023117
>Yes that is why every most european countries and canada are in ruins.
If you're trying to be ironic it is a case if double irony because Europe is slowly burning to the ground and Canada is in a recession.
Also book related thoroughly debunks this idea that "European Socialism" aka massive welfare states have helped or even worked.
It is only leeching off past success and has lead to drastic reductions in growth and living standards than what they would be if never implemented
http://www.iea.org.uk/publications/research/scandinavian-unexceptionalism-culture-markets-and-the-failure-of-third-way-soc
>>71023117
>Well lets see how elective employers can be when third level education is alot more easily acquired
Dumbass that is another reason why you need a 4 year degree or 2 years experience to get a starting position as a cook at a shitty restaurant or just about any entry level job.
So you want to learn about the minimum wage.
The attached figures are supply-demand graphs for different markets. Figure 1 is for the labour market encompassing people who work for minimum wage and close to it. Figure 2 is for the labour market of people who work for substantially above minimum wage. Figure 3 is for a hypothetical fast food industry that employs people at minimum wage and is at equilibrium, and figure 4 is for a hypothetical business process consultancy market that employs people at substantially above minimum wage and is at equilibrium.
So what happens?
In figure 1 we can see that increasing the price floor on labour reduces the amount demanded (the number of people employed). This instantaneously suggests that increasing the minimum wage will result in unemployment. When price rises, demand falls. It also increases supply of labour (people willing to be employed at minimum wage). We have oversupply, which is deadweight loss, or an inefficiency. These people are unemployed.
In figure 2 we can see that if your employees already work for more than minimum wage and the proposed increase then nothing changes.
Now let's move on to figure 3. Figure 3 is the fast food market. Supply 1 represents the "current situation." When the minimum wage rises the supply curve shifts to the left. Why? Because less people are employed in the fast food industry (recall figure 1) there is less fast food to go around. When the cost of inputs (labour) goes up, firms are less willing to supply as much quantity as they were before. Less people = less production. So there is less supply. When supply shifts to the left the price rises from P1 to P2. Basically, people pay more for their burgers. Figure 4 shows the market for people employed in figure 2. Nothing changes. Because their wage is already at equilibrium and the price floor changes nothing then the supply curve doesn't shift.
A rise in the minimum wage will cause unemployment and price increases in some markets.
More inflation less debt to pay
>>71023438
They will be needed for the jobs who cant pay 15/hour thats why
Y'know a big part of why the economy is screwed is because of the way women spend money.
Cosmetics, constantly renewed seasonal clothing and home decoration are inhaling the income of the population.
None of the people or industries involed are remotely valuabe to society.
The engineering department in my local college is half stocked with decades old machines, meanwhile the health and beauty department has a fucking Wii in the sitting area.
I can see company's like Walmart and McDonald's doing it but not smaller stores.
It might even prevent new stores from opening up due to the increase in wage.
>>71022914
Lel pretty decent example when you look at why its done. The numbers increase only to maintain the illusion that your character is always increasing in power. Redpilled players however know there are only 3 states of power no matter what the numbers say: beginner gear, starter raid gear, and end raid gear.
Going to real life, while bernouts will believe they have more economic "power" due to a bigger number, the rest of us know there is and will always be only 3 states: poor, middle class, and rich.
>>71023506
You really think corporations won't find this as an excuse to justify even more inflation and highered costs?
>>71023438
Because a 15/hr minimum wage will increase hiring illegals 100 times
>>71023117
>raises taxes for the rich... not everyone else
my employer will have to pay 6% more to my payroll under bernie's plan, which means the likelihood of me getting another job decreases even more. I will also be taxed .5% on every securities transaction. Which isn't a lot, but it will slightly hurt seniors and people planning for retirement
he's proposing a nationwide $15 minimum wage and another 6% employer-side payroll tax...this will effect unemployment
For anyone who legitimately doesn't get why a $15 minimum wage will destroy jobs, consider things from the perspective of a company.
If hiring someone will bring in more revenue than they lose in wages, then a company will rationally hire that person in order to profit. Thus, given the current minimum wage, only people who can provide companies with over $7.25 worth of labor per hour are capable of working and getting paid in this economy.
So consider all of the jobs that pay between $7.25 and $15.00 per hour now. There are a lot of jobs that fall into this category. If the minimum wage were raised to $15.00, companies would lose incentive to keep all of those people employed. Those job opportunities that were previously worth $7.25-15.00 no longer exist.
Further, supposing paying higher wages meant companies magically got reimbursed for their costs by, I don't know, employee morale increasing sales, so that they make that extra $7.75 back per hour per person. If $15.00 wages were better for business than $7.25 wages, the labor market would dictate that more companies would ALREADY be paying that much for employees.
People don't get job.
Go on gibsmedats
More votes for the dems.
>>71021276
Clap clap clap!
>>71015960
>Min wage goes to $15
>Entry-level jobs virtually disappear
>Many more young people, uneducated people, people with moronic degrees unemployed
>Democrats can say 'hey! WE fixed the minimum wage! The EEEEBUUUULLLL corporations are why you have no jobs! Vote for us and we'll fix that, too!"
It is a scam
>>71015960
Remember that this means losers flipping burgers would get paid that. The same people who smashed up their work because of a prank call.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rgmPWKcYoiQ
Wouldn't this increase inflation?
Also, I don't see why we would need a $15 minimum wage in say, my home state of AZ. The cost of living here is very low and the min wage is consequently low too. Can someone explain to me why this would be a good thing??
>>71023520
I concede the point yet i think what you're not acknowledging is that if the statis quo remains not only will the people suffer the economy will also suffer and and i dont know if you realise this but a population is needed to keep the capitalism afloat and when the capitalism is only feeding the richest 1000 people in the country something needs to change and bernie sanders is that change and its the culmination of all of his policy that should be looked at not just nit pick an aspect an expect it to work solitarily
>>71023779 you forgot to minus the money they will be saving for not having to pay for their employees healthcare.
>>71022721
I dont want to pay thousands when I don't need medical help. Health insurance is for paranoid chumps. Also, yes it is a luxury. It's the fucking definition of a luxury. Do something dumb or get into a tragic, very unlikely accident and you can get lots of fancy medical equipment to patch you up. It's not cheap. It's fucking expensive and I don't want to be forced to pay for it for other people.
>>71020440
Underpaid by what standard? Your preference?
To generalise your points further, companies will move towards cheaper alternatives where possible, so that will involve moving more jobs overseas but also replacing human jobs with automation. There's a huge number of areas where automation is already possible but not used because the cost is prohibitive, simply raising the cost of hiring would drive a move to automation.
Companies will indeed increase prices but again more generally the cost of living, that is the general cost of all goods, is going to skyrocket and so that extra cash gained as min wage is going to represent less spending power which will effect the poor more.
There should be no min wage, the value of someone is decided by the free market and fundamentally anyone trying to use force to make that person receive more value than they provide will cause the opposite to happen.
The people who have good jobs and who are well off can afford shifts in the cost of living, they'll also find cheaper places to live which threatens the markets and drives down supply of good workers which drives up the price, so businesses will have to pay those skilled workers more to make sure the value they get relative to the unskilled workers is a net benefit. That means even higher wages and resulting price hikes on all the products.
Value is value, you can fuck about with cost (dollar numbers) of things all you want, but what somethings value is, is intrinsic and the market will always re-balance, all this does is wreck the value of the dollar and risk hyper inflation.
But then bernie has already demonstrated repeatedly that he doesn't understand things like the difference between a secured and unsecured loan, so this sort of blatant idiocy shouldn't be surprising.
Fed pumps trillions into economy trying to get growth and modest inflation
Nothing much happens. No inflation at all. Trillions end up in pockets of 1%.
Raising minimum wage to poverty level
"oh no! It will overheat the economy! It will cause inflation! Rich won't invest!"
Kek ...sad pepe.
>seattle passes law for fifteen dollar minimum wage
>takes effect in 2017 for largest businesses, 2021 for smallest
>mcdonalds says "fuck that" and installs pic related to replace the cashiers already
>fast food restaurants already talking about making fully automated restaurants where robots cook the food
>casual dining restaurants already replacing 5-6 servers with one server and tablets for ordering food/paying at each table
>toll booth workers being replaced with toll tag readers and cameras that read license plates + mail a bill
A $15 minimum wage federally would be catostrophic for a lot of jobs, which would become infeasible, or would be cheaper to automate.
>>71023885
The biggest welfare queens are WalMart employees. The problem is corporatism and the economy, not hardworking americans.
>>71023866
You're not considering any of the things we want to do that would coalesce with raising the minimum wage over a period of years. Opinion discarded, minimum wage can easily be raised under another FDR. You're a dumbass bootlicker with no ambition for a better America.
>>71015960
Minimum wage here in Jew Jersey is $8.35. Why the fuck would we pay people at Wendy's who aren't even fucking competent enough to put no mayo on my sandwich15 fucking dollars a year?
Also, pic related
>>71024207
*15 dollars an hour
>>71024189
We will eliminate welfare with MORE welfare.
t. 21 centurey americans
>>71023442
The #1 challenge is unilateral willingness to contribute. We pay around 30-50% tax, but do it willingly. See how many Americans want to do that...
>>71024187
Dude fuck mcdonalds in the first place if you eat there or are even bitching about those low lifes jobs then your whats wrong with human life.
>>71015960
Is he planning of controlling prices? because shit will scale up with the higher demand.
>>71015960
>Is this Jew deliberately trying to crash the US?
it will just cause inflation.. niggers will still be poor and soon they'll want $30 minimum wages.
>>71015960
All he'll do is cause cost push inflation, its basic economics. People's real wage will stay roughly the same even though nominal wages will double
>>71024052
>you forgot to minus the money they will be saving for not having to pay for their employees healthcare.
Health insurance is tax deductible, its their way of paying employees w/o actually paying them. If it was cheaper to pay their employees more ameribucks, they would have done that instead a long time ago
>>71024052
Here's your protip as someone who isn't from the US: Most entry level jobs don't offer healthcare for their employees. When obamacare mandated that large companies offer some form of healthcare for full time employees, they just cut everyone to four days a week (32 hours) so they would qualify as part time.
>>71024207
>no mayo on my sandwich
Holy shit I know this all too well. They even fuck up my order and ask me at the window for a repeat of it. I give it to them and they chimp out and start blaming me for whatever reason. Fuck Wendy's workers, I wish so much I could go somewhere else but Wendy's or McD's and fuck McD's
I've got an idea! Even $15 isn't enough! Raise it to $100 so no one goes broke!
>>71024270
Yeah exactly, after FDRs programs took place, welfare programs largely ENDED because the economy got so much better. The average American has been in a recession for 15 years, Fiscal stimulation is needed now more than ever. It will kickstart us into another golden age if done the right way.
Having a high minimum wage is retarded.
I *believe* that some form of structured minimum wage is good to have, because it keeps a consistent wage in an area and makes it a little more financially stable, but I don't think this applies well to large areas, let alone the nation.
It's trying to solve an issue by creating bigger numbers to all fields involved. Not to mention, a lot of people don't deserve $15. Minimum wage jobs aren't careers. If you're a fuck up and decide to make it one, then you deserve to live in squalor for your poor choices.
>Bernie is out to destroy small businesses
More power to corporations amirite?
Ernie 2236!
>>71015960
Sanders is hoping to play the long con really if he pushed min wage up low tier jobs will be replaced by self serve this increasing unemployment thus giving him another 4 year campaign to continue fighting " big bad ebul" companys and even more crazies to back his cause because free collage didn't equal free job.
To summarize he's setting his campaign up to give him the full 8 years then he walks away richer then ever
>>71024305
I rarely eat at McDonalds, I'm just saying: People think that there's unlimited money for corporations to give and raising the minimum wage will naturally make the lowest skilled labor worth what the minimum wage is decreed to be, and that is not how it works. And if you read my post, McDonalds is not the only example.
>>71015960
>Is this Jew deliberately trying to crash the US?
He's a socialist so he thinks it'll work this time
>>71024187
I'd prefer if my food wasnt susceptible to being spat on by a spic.
Nothing of value will be lost in taking away jobs from Beaners.
Food might even become cheaper
>>71021899
>unironically supporting a Marxist kike
>>71022018
>source: feelthebern.com
K.. KEEP ME POSTED
>>71024302
I know i know but its more of a case of eelducating their ignorance, they seem to think tax are literally money being burnt when infact its just a nation wide fund to be invested on the same fucking country that they want to improve, so when the results are being shown people will be less retarded about it - i think and hope
>>71023528
Have you taken econ past 1010???
>>71015960
>be me electrical engineer
>building robots for companies
>hope more minimum wage comes
life is bretty gud
>>71022721
>>71024054
also,
>take out the profit incentive
that's fucking stupid. I just want it to be easier to buy healthcare efficiently should the time arise. That will put competition in the market and force the healthcare providers to actually fucking compete.
>>71024207
I have the opposite problem: I'm allergic to eggs, and I'll order the sandwich without mayo, check it, and then find it has mayo on it anyways. (Kind of a moot point for me lately as Wendy's has switched to a brioche bun so I can't get the burgers there anymore).
I agree with the message of your post. Burger flipping is not worth $15/hr.
>>71024101
You are correct. I agree with you whole-heartily, but the US will NEVER discontinue the minimum wage. We are a welfare state. There are lot of Americans that are underpaid, but that's more of a ethic issue, not an economic one. They best we can hope for is only a modest raise in the minimum wage, approaching somewhere near equilibrium.
>>71024522
You tell me.
卐
>>71022018
That excludes:
>Creates a new 2.2 percent “income-based [health care] premium paid by households.” This is equivalent to increasing all tax bracket rates by 2.2 percentage points, and would raise the top marginal income tax rate to 54.2 percent.
>>71024424
>Having a high minimum wage is retarded.
>Keeping minimum wage adjusted for costs of living is retarded.
t.average Drumpf fag.
> a lot of people don't deserve $15
More bullshit, I've worked fast food and what they paid me for the amount of shit I had to do was a fucking JOKE. I basically ran the store on my own. Most minimum wage jobs require hard effort and these people run our businesses, they deserve a better wage.
>>71024525
>wanting your fellow man to suffer and fail for your own personal gain
No wonder Germany is so fucked
After reading about the phone pranks calls to KFC, I don't believe min wage employees deserve the raise
>>71024646
If you were that valuable to the business then you should have bargained for more pay
卐
>>71024646
Here's a hint: If you think you're overqualified, then find a new job. Why should a business start paying you more because you do more? You were hired into a position, and agreed on a wage. Quit if it doesn't suit you.
>keeping minimum wage adjusted
Cost of living will go up if minimum wage goes up, idiot.
>>71024648
people will have to educate them self better is just a natural thing
>>71015960
Jews have the spatial skills equivalent to their camel fucking ancestors. They never needed to evolve that area of intelligence.
So they have trouble analyzing,being perceptive of patterns and visualizing how a vast interconnected system such as an economy works.
>>71024435
Corparations still need to make profits from the population and if they fuck over the population they lose their business its that simple, if they go abroad tax them more because they still need to make profits from the american market regardless
>>71024646
>unironically using the word "Drumpf"
this influx of reddit is really starting to get to me.
>>71024802
soon
[_(卐)_]
>>71024646
>worked
WORKED
workED
It's not intended to be your life's career path.
>>71024646
>More bullshit, I've worked fast food and what they paid me for the amount of shit I had to do was a fucking JOKE. I basically ran the store on my own. Most minimum wage jobs require hard effort and these people run our businesses, they deserve a better wage.
The amount of tasks or physical effort/exertion a job is worth isn't necessarily what the job is worth. Ditch digging is something that requires a lot of physical exertion, but it's not highly skilled labor, and you can find a lot of unskilled labor willing to do it cheaply (especially illegal immigrants).
Meanwhile there are people that make six digits sitting at a desk all day. I don't sit at a desk all day (much of the day) but I do a job that requires a lot of critical analysis and knowledge and training and brings in over a half million in revenue a year (at cost of delivery [travel] plus my salary, benefits, etc., this is about 50-60% profitable).
If the job was worth more, you could either bargain for more pay, or leave for another job where your over-qualification for your prior job lends you qualified for a better paying position.
>>71023007
>Simple solutions:
No.
1. Raising tax on outsourced positions simply forces the hand of the business and causes their costs to go up which is simply passed onto the consumer as higher prices.
2. Companies can only exist when sales revenue exceeds the expenditure, so prices are forced to go up, if that causes them to go bust then that product disappears from the market all together.
What socialists fundamentally do not understand is that the value of something is different from the cost. The value an employee represents to the business is based on things like their skills, willingness to work in certain conditions, and how many other people are also fighting for the same position (who else can do the job as well as you)
Manipulating the cost of things, that is to say how many dollars you have to pay DOES NOT and CAN NOT alter the value of something. So when you force a market to hire people at some inflated price, the market will simply adjust the costs of things.
That's why increasing min wage cannot help the poor, theres no point in $15 min wage if the cost of living goes up to mean you essentially can only buy the same amount of stuff. What the poor need is more value not more money, that means education, having a good work ethic, and learning to provide more value for their employers.
The socialist fantasy that somehow businesses will just shoulder the cost internally and run forever making a loss is completely delusional and impossible in reality.
>>71015960
The minimum wage mainly just creates a huge demand for illegal aliens, who don't abide by the wage laws and don't pay any taxes (meaning they actually come out ahead).
Any time the minimum wage is raised, you get a surge of illegal immigrants into the area
>>71024403
>Yeah exactly, after FDRs programs took place, welfare programs largely ENDED because the economy got so much better
t. brainwashed by marxist professor.
>The average American has been in a recession for 15 years
Fucking conservatives man. Why did they keep cutting government spending during these years.
>It will kickstart us into another golden age if done the right way.
CountryX didn't have a real comm.. I mean Fiscal stimulation I promise it will work this time!
>>71023506
Gr8 b8 retard
>>71024052
>you forgot to minus the money they will be saving for not having to pay for their employees healthcare.
As someone already pointed out you're a moron who doesn't actually know how things work here.
>>71024189
>another FDR
We are still dealing with massively negative fallout from FDR's policies to this very day such as
>>71024337
>Health insurance is tax deductible, its their way of paying employees w/o actually paying them. If it was cheaper to pay their employees more ameribucks, they would have done that instead a long time ago
Not only does this system of employer provided insurance (which arose because of FDR's wage controls during the war) make people much more dependant on their jobs which inhibits growth due to the unwillingness of workers to find new and better jobs for fear of losing insurance it also cause insurance prices to be substantially higher due to the fact that people aren't shopping around for the best insurance for them with their own money and are instead relying on their employer to do it.
>>71023160
Simple. The FED is creating inflation so prices go up. Doubling the minimum wage will just increase the inflation more
>>71024711
>Implying everywhere else doesn't pay the same.
>>71024735
I didn't think I was overqualified, I thought I was getting paid DIRT fucking wages. No worker should have to work his ass off and not get a decent pay. I didn't want a lot of money, I wanted a decent pay to afford other things I needed My manager meanwhile makes thousands a month while sitting on his fat ass.
>>71024802
Good, get triggered.
>>71024923
No but it's intended to be an hourly job that people NEED you to operate so they can eat or profit. That alone should be enough to ask for a decent wage.
>>71024646
>working in fast food
>not a loser
Pick one
>>71025200
But where is the inflation?
The only thing I have seen inflated is the stock market.
>>71025125
Very true, fuck employer provided insurance.
>>71025201
You agreed to be paid minimum wage. When you signed the contract of employment, you agreed to your work duties and your wage. You have no right to complain when you could have read your duties, used your brain, and argued higher wages.
Your work is not worth more than your wage, stop complaining. Any high schooler could do what you're doing, and that's why you get paid the same as one.
the funny thing is that a high minimum wage kills the smallest of businesses only, family businesses etc. it doesn't affect the big corporations that much because they can take the hit.
al the mega corporations get bigger and richer, while their competition is destroyed for them by to the state. it also significantly moves up the barrier to entry which means fewer competitors will arise in the future, further consolidating the power of the already established corporations. instead of being able to start their own businesses and create success, young people will be debt slaves working dead-end jobs for their corporate overlords.
feel the bern, motherfuckers.
>>71015960
More inflation, more unemployment, crashing shitty fast food chains (maybe a good thing for our health), but over all a drastic minimum wage hike will be very disruptive. Go as an undergraduate econ professor, even at a cucked out to the max university like Harvard, they will still probably tell you the truth.
>>71024646
>what they paid me for the amount of shit I had to do was a fucking JOKE. I basically ran the store on my own. Most minimum wage jobs require hard effort and these people run our businesses, they deserve a better wage.
i work fast food and this is way far from the fucking truth
my $10 an hour is pretty damn fair if you ask me, all i have to do is be under stress for the 1-2 hours that we call dinner/lunch rush and the rest of the day i'm just chilling and putting hot sauce into little cups
>>71025201
>I thought I was getting paid DIRT fucking wages
That is because the job you were doing isn't worth that much.
It really is that simple.
Accept it or don't but that is the reality.
I could spend all day busting my ass picking corn by hand but it won't be as valuable as me picking it with a massive combine harvester.
Hence people picking produce by hand don't get paid as much as someone operating a combine harvester.
You stupid fucks
The Minimum wage is and always will be zero.
Which is what all the cucks make when get fired after the minimum wage is raised
I get paid 120k to sit on my ass in front of my desk all day. I also never worked a min wage job in my life. How does anyone born and raised in this country of opportunity fail so hard they get stuck in with min wage? You either have to be really dumb or just be super lazy in school.
>>71022721
>Yeah you are, if you get the majority of America behind, and everyone will be happy to tax wall street.
This has got to be the biggest delusion that berniefags have going on. They think that they will somehow be able to get the oligarchy to just say "sorry" and give up their cash for whatever welfare scheme Bernie has in mind.
>majority of America
Unless the majority of America takes up arms and pitchforks and goes to establish their rights 1917-style, they don't matter. And the people that do matter, are either on Wall Street or paid by Wall Street.
>>71024646
>entitled burger flipper thinks he's an economic sage and knows what's best for our country
A retarded man could replace you and do your job any day. Stop talking like your work is worth anything.
>>71025456
It's laziness. There are so many jobs that pay 40k a year with no degree, no experience, and no special talents, but require actual work. People would rather stand around at a Starbucks for $9 an hour than work an actual job for $18-20 an hour.
>>71025282
Some employers have found that is is cheaper to pay the medicalcare bills of their employees to go to hospitals like
http://kfor.com/2013/07/08/okc-hospital-posting-surgery-prices-online/
When they need care Instead of paying for insurance for all their employees.
>>71023518
Not all of it does. A portion also goes into infrastructure and running things. Also, if you're making that little you also likely get a sizable return I'm comparison to your income. People in your bracket (myself included) pay next to nothing in taxes once that is considered. Stop complaining.
>>71015960
>be sanders
>double the wage
>inflation makes our money worth half of what it is
>everything's doubled in price
>the price of living in the states is the same as in a big city in europe
>the crazy old bat leaves the white house claiming he doubled minimum wage as an achievement
>>71023506
>minimum wage stays the same. PRICES STILL GOING UP
Prices are going up because government is printing money and inflating the currency, that lowers the purchasing price of the dollar and thus the price of things to increase.
Value on almost everything is the same or going down, inflation is basically just another hidden tax to redistribute money. This is economics 101
>>71018134
Keep your retarded ideas to yourself.
The minimum wage inc would take several years but it still wont work, currently corps can afford higher min wage in some areas due to cost absorption in other areas, global inc means workers get fired and replaced with robots, accounting is done by accrual method so even with the 4 -5 year grave period to get to 15, the corps will still see the value in trashing workers and getting bots. This is a huge initial cash out lay causing cost of common goods to raise, and then the working class has to take larger pay cuts for taxes. In the long term corps leave America so they no longer need to pay 15$, this is also caused by the 70%!!!!! Corp effective tax sanders stupid ass is purposing.
>>71015960
revenge for the 6 gorillion
>>71025325
>argued higher wages.
AHAHA, not possible at all. My manager was a total cunt and had the legal authority to pay us dirt thanks to conservashits. So did every other place.
>>71025394
>>71025476
>i work fast food and this is way far from the fucking truth
I was a carhop at the busiest Sonic in town. I had to train employees, scrub the floors bathrooms, hand out food, be a gay little bitch for tips 100x a day, and operate drive through on a daily business. The shit I had to do was not worth 7.50 an hour. I basically ran the store except for cooking. We had the best Sonic in town but my employer still wouldn't give me a raise. Minimum wage work can be hard as fuck, it deserves a decent wage.
>>71023528
Did you draw those in paint, because I find it hard to believe that in the real world this would be represented by a perfect linear relation.
>>71024207
about the pic - Surely the government caters to the tune of tens of billions to the banking establishment?
Who are already allowed to generate credit for loans, but recieve real per hour work wages in repayments and interest from the general population?
So who is the more unmotivated? Workers or the people who inhale money by sitting a computer doctoring the shit of entire populations everyday?
Obviously too many gimmedats is bad but the ultimate total of gimmedats is microscopic compared to a national budget. The amounts of money flowing in banking profits and in the giant businesses paying almost no tax is not minor, it's serious gravity.
We're being knifed in the back. My uni just built a £20 mil extension due to student loan funny money of £7.5 K a year tuition fees but offers almost zero education on any of it's courses and has no materials. How's that for a gimmedat?
>>71022211
God I can't wait for that. Tired of niggers fucking my order up literally every single time
>>71025779
Then why did you take the job? If you couldn't argue higher pay, and didn't like the pay, why the fuck did you stay?
>Welcome to McDonalds, what would you like
>"I'd like a 5 layer burrito"
>We don't sell burritos
>"FUCKING ASSHOLES I DESERVEHKJDK"
This is literally your argument.
>>71023614
Then whats the fucking point of a $15 min wage?
>>71025779
You let your employer cuck you, that's your fault.
>>71023548
At the expenses of the savings and the purchasing power of the population. What a great idea....
>>71022398
Holy shit this. Small businesses largest cost is wages. So many will be put out of business if they cannot get away with higher prices. In the end only large corps win, sanders is a Trojan horse
>>71015960
I don't know shit about economics but won't this be really bad for small business? Huge companies like McDonald's will probably be able to get by fine.
>>71015960
>raise minimum wage to 15
Yaaaay! We got what we wanted!
>10 years go by
>15 is now considered too low for minimum wage
We demand $25 an hour now!
>>71015960
well when a CEO has an $18 million salary, i'm pretty sure the company isnt going to go bankrupt by paying their workers a higher wage.
keep lickin those boots kiddo
>>71025999
Trips of truth fampei
>>71023078
NYC needs that minimum wage because cost of living is so fucking high but flyover country is cheap as fuck to live in because their politicians give a rats ass about their rights or welfare.
>>71025779
nigger even mcfags dont get paid as shit as you do. You just worked for a shitty place and there's a thing called leaving and getting a new job you dumb cuck. That's assuming your story is even accurate, because manager/leader-level employees dont make minimum wage in any business ever
>>71022491
>7 years
>bernouts unaware they will get fucked by inflation
>>71024187
The replacement of human labor with automation was already bound to happen, there cost just wasn't justifiable yet. By increasing minimum wage this forces companies to reconsider the cost to benefit of automation.
So the question: is it the increasing of minimum wage that is the issue, or companies being greedy that is the issue?
And please, give me something more than, "not their job to care about employees" because that is slave mentality. It wasn't always like this.
>>71026086
>muh ceo salary
do some math, with most companies, completely liquidated a CEO's payment and put it toward worker's pay would raise it ~50 cents.
>>71025988
Ruling class doesn't care about your savings
>>71026152
The goal of a corporation is to increase stockholder value not to help teenage burger flippers buy pot
>>71026048
all the while the money that's been saved in the bank before the increase is now fucking worthless. Thanks democrats.
>>71024584
Oh I agree, the UK is the same, we're even more of a welfare state which is disgusting but what can you do? We just had a minor increase in what is essentially a min wage or what they call a living wage, it's fucking stupid.
It's just promises by politicians to give money to a class of people in order to buy their votes, and the sad reality is those people in the long run (when the markets adjust) are going to be worse off because changes in the cost of living affect the poor way more than they affect people who are well off.
I asked you by what standard people are "underpaid" and you didn't answer. You can only claim someone is underpaid by some objective standard and there's no such standard other than what the free market decides, if that person could be paid more then they should move to a job where they are paid more. if there is no such job then they're being paid "fairly" by any rational and sane standard.
Saying people are underpaid is really just again trying to say the same thing, which is that they have low intrinsic market value but you want to make that value higher because <ethics> but you cannot raise that persons value simply by passing laws, that value is intrinsic to them, they need to work and acquire useful skills.
>>71022797
That's when he opens the gulags comrade
>>71026320
Poor people don't have money in the banks, this would just knock the rich down a peg.
>>71026402
>Poor people don't have money in the banks
thanks to the federal reserve who discourages savings and encourages debt
again, thanks democrats
>>71025870
I live in a town where that kind of work was the only thing available. That was my first job, I didn't have a car, my own place. I didn't have dirt but I believed in the American Dream, so I worked my ass off in hopes of getting promoted and a higher pay.
I didn't get shit after a year of it. I was situationlly forced to work a minimum wage job just like so many others. That's why we have to raise the wage. I had no other choice.
>>71025979
I had no choice. Should I have not worked? I needed every cent I could get, my employer was legally entitled to treat me like a dog for 45 hours a week. And so he did.
>>71026120
No other jobs where I lived. I shouldn't have to uproot everything just because an Employer is greedy as FUCK.
>ecause manager/leader-level employees dont make minimum wage in any business ever
You guys are so disconnected from reality, I understand why you vote Trump after being this deluded. Working conditions and pay are awful for entry level jobs, no matter how hard you work. All we want is a decent wage.
>>71026233
well using verizon's ceo making $18 mil as an example, even if they just cut it in half, assuming 52 weeks in a year working 40 hours a week, they could hire at least 250 fresh new employees making $15 / hour, or raise ~500 current (federal) minimum wage employees to $15 / hour, or raise many more since most states have higher minimums
math not your strong suit, eh kid? like i said, keep on bootlicking
for the record, i make 6 figures as a sales VP, so dont bother with the ad hominem (just preempting since that's usually /pol/'s go-to deflection tactic)
>>71026576
fuck wanted to make a new thread
>>71026318
You are correct, in that America does have that definition for a business. However, in the modern age we have seen a steady decline in what would be conventionally "middle class" blue collar work. Because of automation many jobs (particularly in manual labor) have disappeared, leaving minimum wage service and higher paying white collar work.
Let's be real, not everyone is cut out to be an engineer or a doctor, leaving them to work the service industry if they don't want to be a gibsmedat.
I don't claim to have the answer, but maybe in light of how technology has changed or world, we need to reconsider our definition of the purpose of business?
>>71025274
Here it is. Guess when the FED was created
- Higher minimum wage can lead to automatation of some jobs, but it does not lead to less jobs OVERALL. You people fail to understand the economy dynamically.
- Higher minimum wage leads to higher real wages. Prices don't go up 1:1 with wages because of productivity.
>>71026152
Unless you're going to go inherently against capitalism at it's core, it's not greedy. You either offer the same product made with higher priced labor at a higher price, or you automate so you can offer the same product for a lower price than the human labor can make it for. If you believe most people will care over their shopping decisions and pay extra for their fast food burger than you keep people. If you believe that being competitive is a race to the bottom on price then you have to automate or your competitors that do will outcompete you.
>>71025456
Because they feel entitled to more than what they're worth and so they refuse to take on jobs on the bottom of career ladders.
I started my job in IT as an assistant systems administrator and now I'm a Group IT Director, when people moan that I'm on a high wage what they don't get is that I started on fuck all and earned my way slowly up that ladder by increasing my own value.
People just see the rich as somehow lucky without actually looking at the path of work to get there, sure a few of the rich won the lottery or received inheritance and that's tough luck, most people with good jobs and a decent chunk of change earned it.
Refusal to work a low paid job to get onto the rung of the corporate ladder keeps them from eventually arriving at better paid jobs. Either that or they're so dumb they're incapable of proving any value.
Lets face it most liberals are living with their parents still and think that a world where people are simply handed things is one which can work long term.
One of the problems is that understand economics and how value is generated is just another skill and if you're useless then you're never going to understand it.
>>71026275
And that is why they are creating inflation. What is your point?
>>71026793
I can't disagree with that. But, I do believe that we need to take into consideration that the world has changed drastically over the last few decades. Maybe it's time to reconsider how we approach capitalism, because the bad news is, it's only going downhill from here.
The central bank, the main resevoir, pipes money to smaller resevoirs.
The resevoirs owned by a small minority have a permanently high water level, like banks and supermarkets.
Your resevoir is almost dry.
You are told that your minimum water level is enough, because if you look at all the water flowing around the system pipes and divide it up that is your share.
But the big resevoirs don't let their water flow into the system pipes. They hide it in tanks and send it to other systems. The main resevoir lets the big resevoirs do this.
In fact the main resevoirs been falsifying its original water level for hundreds of years.
But when you line up for work at the main resevoir, and they make you scrape the moisture of your eyeballs so you can add to the big tank, they are somehow very accurate. They can measure your eyeball moisture to a millionth of a drop, and they can do that for millions of people.
Conveniently a pipe breaks near one of the big resevoirs every now and then and the big tank has to give the poor guy a huge top up. Where did that come from? There hasn't been any rain.
You know this because your tank is dry.
>>71025456
what town did you grow up in?
did you go to public or private school?
did your parents pay your way through college?
i get paid 6 figures now as well, but i wasnt a spoiled little faggot, so i worked for minimum wage starting a week after my 14th birthday.
>>71026529
Why would a company just hire people,when they have available money? That is just retarded. They pay a CEO that much because he makes choices that can cost millions. They wouldnt magically hire 250 people if they cut his salary.
Fuck,you Berntards are retarded.
>>71015960
If it's already starting in California, doesn't that mean that housing prices are going to be even higher than they already are over there? Also, it might mean that gentrification moves even faster, eliminating crime.
>>71026837
Rich people have inherited their wealth. People working their way up is the exception.
Your blame game that it's just an individual problem is also wrong.
>>71027046
are you retarded? how do you miss the point of the discussion by this wide a margin?
go back and read through the original message + replies. stay in school you fucking child
>>71015960
more than here.
enjoy your beer now costing 30$ pr can
>>71026753
The minimum wage is irrelevant for the economy. If it is too high people will just hire illegals, or people without a contract. Countries like Denmark doesnt have a minimum wage,and their wages are high.
>>71027154
sorry I ment 3$
>>71024962
TIL going from $5.5 billion/year to $5 billion/yr profit is "running at a loss"
>>71024403
>Fiscal stimulation is needed now more than ever. It will kickstart us into another golden age if done the right way.
literally, unironically arguing for pc related
>>71027166
>Countries like Denmark doesnt have a minimum wage,and their wages are high.
Because their high unemployment insurance is effectively working like a minimum wage. People don't take a job that pays less than unemployment benefits.
>>71015960
He probably wants to do it so he can be then tax workers fuck loads to pay for his commie shit.
>>71027153
>if they just cut it in half, assuming 52 weeks in a year working 40 hours a week, they could hire at least 250 fresh new employees making $15 / hour, or raise ~500 current (federal) minimum wage employees to $15 / hour, or raise many more since most states have higher minimums
What were you saying retard. You just said:
>If they cut to half the wage of the CEO they would hire 250 people :DDDDDD
Which is the dumbest logic that I have ever heard.
>>71027331
the question that was asked was "where does this money magically come from to pay people $15 / hour? OMG EVERYONE WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS"
and i pointed out some low-hanging fruit that you could STILL pay most CEOs a hilariously massive salary ($9 mil+ a year) and raise wages for hundreds, maybe thousands of people in an organization depending on current state laws.
it's not hard to understand, but then again what can you expect from someone who is clearly 16 years old and has never held employment in their young life.
like i said--stay in school.
>>71027304
There are no minimum wage in Switzerland either. And they dont have a welfare system as big as Denmark. Minimum wage has little impact to the economy,people will just ignore the law if it is too high.
>>71025736
Robots are the least of the worries tin foilio.
The main problem today is that capitalism is often a closed market with strict regulations & copyrights. Socialism aims to balance out the cracks in the system but ultimately neither of these systems are unbreakable.
It's come to the point that unless you have lots of money in the first place, it's difficult to start a business.
In the U.S. you will often find cartels or groups of individuals who buy up majority of areas in towns or cities. They use every trick in the book to ensure no one outside of their circle has a chance to rise up.
No matter how you look at it, greed destroys it all.
Whatever a person wants, that is desire is the lure.
This is why narcissism is being cultured throughout the world, to teach the people to be selfish and greedy.
They all make themselves absolute slaves to money, whoever controls that money is their god.
>>71026152
What kind of a retarded fucking moral feels argument is this? I don't even? It's time to take your head out of your ass and face reality.
Reality says that shit wouldn't happening THIS SOON if it wasn't for the min.wage getting raised. You can go about this and that about cause and underlying problems, but that doesn't change what's going to happen.
It's like spilling a glass of water and then go on rambling about the underlying causes of water splashing all over the place and then expecting that it won't happen because "that's unjust!".
fucking retarded
>>71027436
I agree
>>71027436
But do you know how important a CEO can be? They pay people that much because they are calling the shots about things that could cost millions of dollars. Companies put salaries so high to them for a reason. But I am guessing that a neckbeard knows how to run a company than the shareholders of a multinational....
>>71025723
>muh money printing
>>71027506
>i give factual observations supported with strong logic
>herp derp greed and autist philosophy
No a huge loss of jobs is a big deal retardo especially since the jobs obongo added are low tier min jobs
>>71015960
raising minimum wage would only inflate the currency. Good luck
>>71027778
> obongo
I think you got the wrong post mate.
>>71027619
>b-but we have to worship the ground they walk in
once again, they can still get paid hilariously massive salaries. are you suggesting that $9 million is "too small"? and also bear in mind that this conversation about a CEO salary is purely an example. furthermore the only reason we have to talk about this kind of pay cut in the first place is because salaries like this have BECOME absurdly top-heavy. they could've still been well-paid while committing the organization to a more sustainable/fair pay model early on (i believe costco comes to mind). in other words these companies themselves have created this discussion about minimum wage by resisting paying their workers a fair wage in the first place. how anyone can feel sympathy for that is completely beyond me.
for reference, i currently work for a 10-person company, but in the past i have worked for massive companies like coca cola, so ive seen both worlds.
>>71027619
Im nearly certain i could write a program to make logical choices that that will replace that area of a CEO's job and it will less than a kiosk and not even 1% of 18milion
>>71022556
"We're going to build a wall," said President Trump.
>>71015960
You can live on 7$ a hour, right?
7*8*5*52=14560
You could live cheap on that, right? I could survive on that.
>>71027846
No i got the right post retard, your musings about the nature of human greed is day 1 economics unlimited wants v limited resources. You didnt say anything deep or intelligent in fact you took a piece of what you had right and then made it wrong by saying it arises from culture.
Nothing you said was even relevant to the 15$ wage floor we are discussing, you must have just read some really "deep" post on gayddit and thought to copy and paste it here.
>>71027088
>Rich people have inherited their wealth. People working their way up is the exception.
Even in the top 1% that's not true.
>>71027247
>TIL going from $5.5 billion/year to $5 billion/yr profit is "running at a loss"
The profit goes to the investors who only invest that money if they see a good return, otherwise they invest elsewhere, so basically a certain profit margin is required to keep the company afloat otherwise no innovation can take place and when competitors innovate they lose business and go under.
>>71019919
they got smart
>>71027619
>>71027934
Corporate America is becoming a massive cult who are exploiting the flaws in capitalism and preparing to convert the system to socialism once they break capitalism enough that it's no longer needed.
Socialism will allow them to maintain their control through class placement.
Capitalism isn't a self sustaining system, it requires a good moderator. A bad one will only destroy it.
If you want freedom & security, you need good moderators. You need to moderate yourself.
>>71022398
if you can't afford to pay workers an acceptable wage, your business model deserves to die
>>71020440
Liberals think companies will just deduct the difference from the paychecks of upper management.
>>71027934
I am not worshipping them,is the CHOICE of the shareholders to pay them that much. The gross revenue of companies is just reinvested in the company btw. Cutting the salary of a CEO,wouldnt mean a rise of the number of employees or their salaries. That is probably the stupidest thing that I have heard in a while.
>>71028092
Do it,instead of discussing about what you could do on /pol/. You would become a millionaraire,but you are probably just shit posting,or have so little iniciative that you will never do it.
>>71028298
What do you mean by a moderator? The most regulated sectors are the ones with the highest cronyism and unsustainable.
>>71026978
>I can't disagree with that. But, I do believe that we need to take into consideration that the world has changed drastically over the last few decades. Maybe it's time to reconsider how we approach capitalism, because the bad news is, it's only going downhill from here.
Huh?
Capitalism lowers the cost of living, it increases the quality of products while at the same time making them cheaper and more affordable to everyone, and those products make us all more productive and perpetuate that cycle.
How is that "going downhill"?
Even the people who are paid less in this system benefit more because the lowering of the cost of goods makes the cost of living smaller, ideally we want the price of everything to approach zero so we have a plentiful environment where everyone can afford luxury with minimal work.
Capitalism is the single best thing to happen to humans ever, literally every single thing you take for granted during your day, from technology, medicine, entertainment etc, that's all mind blowingly epic while being affordable, without it we'd be in the wilderness dying before we hit 30 in misery and discomfort.
And all capitalism takes is people to peacefully make voluntary negotiations with each other and respect each others property rights.
>>71015960
Leave minimum wage to the states. $15 would work in NYC and San Francisco, but be absolutely disastrous to rural and southern economies.
>>71028161
My entire post was stating $15 per hour is meaningless.
I own a business and I'll just up the cost higher of my products, I'll keep finding ways to profit off of people.
Sell you anything you want under the law of whats allowed. You want flavored ice? We got it, you want sex in our brothel? We got it. You want a special hat that you can wear to parties and make you feel higher in the social order? We got it.
The more people want, the better it is for me. Because I serve their desires.
It's kek in the face of idiots.
;)
ah yes.. Another thread for kiddos on /pol/ who never got beyond ECON101 to talk as if they're experts on an economy. You all must be so proud of yourselves for your limited understanding of the most basic concepts in Economics.. well done my friends.
>>71015960
lol no
>>71019919
You're so right it hurts.
The rich have gotten so much richer that America's economy could easily afford this, but right-wing politics is basically duping members of the White working class into voting against their interests
''cuz spics and fags are teh ones ruining muh life innit''
>>71028436
once again, the point of this discussion is just going over your head. you are a lost cause.
>>71028763
>herpaderp derp i dont know the nature of a competitive market
Playing rollercoaster tycoon=\= owning a business
Companies will have to make quick moves to be the mover in the market, the price may increase slightly but cutting costs by switching to automation would be the main step. Workers are simply not worth 15$ an hour. Aside from that your post was about a culture of greed and had nothing to do with wages autistic riddler. Fedora tipping faggot, you are not right or intelligent.
>>71019919
>One - if health care is free
It's never free.
>Two - its is an icremental increase
Okay?
>Three - Higher minimum wage mean HUGE currency circulation because minimum wage workers will have more disposable income, you capitalist will know that when people are spending the country benefits
Good goy. The only reason the government is pushing for more circulation is because they can only skim some off the top when money exchanges hands.
>>71028658
Something has to moderate anything.
Look at what happens when certain animals over breed in areas, they turn it into a desert.
Look at what happens when your fat filthy mom doesn't do maintenance on her laptop... auto defrag doesn't solve all the problems.
Everything is exploitable. It requires attention and care if you wish to keep it functioning.
>>71015960
>That burger that, and I quote: "would go up a FEW cents", will be more than double the price.
>I don't know how2economics
Yup pretty much this. I see right through Trump's flipflops and fake conservatism and I voted for Ted Cruz here in New Hampshire. He will give us a much better economics wage.
>>71016063
>It's not all at once. But 15 is quite high for low cost of living States.
The cost will go up with minimum wage raise.
>>71029131
That picture is so on-point.
White people have never been good at looking out for one another, I dislike leftists like BLM and curbs on free-speech in the name of political correctness, but the White working class needs to wise-up and actually stand up for themselves and that does not mean veering to the far-right because to Mr Banker, you are scum even if you are of the same race.
I think Black people are dumb for choosing Shillary over Bernie but Black people get duped by Clinton's dumb memes and identity politics over Bernie's substance
>>71027506
>It's come to the point that unless you have lots of money in the first place, it's difficult to start a business.
First of all that's not true, lots of people start businesses by coming up with ideas and systems that innovate making competing with exisitng businesses profitable.
2nd of all the rich who save and invest their money make it available for investing in people who are capable and have good ideas to innovate and produce something of value.
The PROBLEM that people have is most people over estimate the value of their ideas and innovations, if you're stuck trying to get a loan to start a business it's probably because you have an unrealistic and inflated sense of your own ability or value.
Rich people want more money and the best way to get that is to invest their current funds into people who can provide a return on that investment, they literally want to throw cash at people to get that return, they'll fight between the other wealthy people and outbid them to get a shot at good investments.
As Schiff says, it's saving and rich people pooling money that creates the resources for investment and starting businesses, in a socialist world where everyone has an equal (and small) share its harder to raise capital.
Also technology has allowed crowdfunding which gives people with good ideas even better methods of starting a business, it's how Oculus was started with an idea and crowdfunding and was bought by Shekelberg for 2bn
>>71029254
You raise my my labor costs by about 35-50%, i will have to let people go, it's as simple as that.
>>71029075
>I have no arguments so I will just insult you without any actual basis and act condescending to look intelligent and mature.
>>71029184
But who should that be that ""moderator""? Regulations have increased and cronyism has grown. Or should we regulate the regulator with more moderators?
>>71023866
>muh magic market zealotry
Lets say I pay a faggot 7 bucks an hour to do some shit.
From his labour I earn 50 bucks an hour. I pocket 43 and am a happy motherfucker.
Now the gubmint says I have to pay 15. I pay this nigga 15. I pocket 35 and am a slightly less happy motherfucker but the faggot I hired is twices as happy.
You are officially retarded if you think that 100% free market doesn't just incentivise squeezing people for all you can. Employers can often have more leverage than the employee.
>>71029153
None of what you are saying matters here in that you are focusing on economic theory based on cause and effect of a model.
People want things done and they use money instead of their own hands to do it themselves.
There are rich people all over the world, and the poor are usually much greedier.
If spending $300 on a pair of nigger shoes is what they want to do, I'll sell it.
>>71029671
You think that a guy makeing 7.50 is personally netting his company 50 dollers worth of profit per hour?
>>71029671
Your country doesnt have minimum wage and wages are high. Minimum wage doesnt work like that. Your vision is childish.
>>71029666
Who knows... but it has to be transparent to the public for it to work well.
With 15$/h the salary would be 2400$ taxes apart.
2400$ are 2112€.
With that money here in Spain you would be part of the high class.
2112€ for working in McDonals, incredible.
And I know that I need to consider the cost of living to compare salaries but it's an idea.
>>71029776
>i do business in a vacuum
Kid you are retarded stick to trying to be cool on reddit. Maybe the dumb fucks over there will buy into your shit.
>>71029790
The example illustrates the point about disproportional earnings. It's not exactly these numbers but if you abstract it all CEO's earn millions and their bottom worker earns 7.50.
>>71029544
it's not possible to argue with someone who is quite literally missing the point of the discussion by this large a margin.
i believe the phrase here is "not even wrong"
you underage kids are just too transparent, kek
>>71029823
What do you mean by being transparent?
no minimum wage is best minimum wage while allowing younger kids and teens to work for less to learn skills
no other option is acceptable
>>71029829
Cost of living varies wildly in the US.
You cant really compare NYC and LA to, say, San Antonio.
>>71029804
There isn't, but there is welfare.
>>71029499
It's all bullshit mate, the government bailed out general motors. Twice.
Why the fuck doesn't the government bail me out if I fail a business?
it's all kek mate, the system is rigged and the collapse is due to greed and mismanagement, poor moderation, selfish, lazy people.
The only good workers left as those who are paid well to uphold the roads and walls along with a few wealthy billionaires who have a humanitarian ideal.
Is this a role play thread? Because sanders will never get close to the White House and minimum wage isn't going to 15 idiots. It would destroy the country overnight
>>71029944
Well, now you are losing your smoothness.
GG, you lose this internets today.
;)
>>71029954
Thats because their bottom workers are doing 7.50 dollers worth of work.
The money earners are way up on the pay bracket, and have alot more negotiateing power.
>>71029971
Ok,you are just proving my point.
Your point was dumb all along. You just said that they earn too much momey,and others could have a raise with that,but that is not how a company works. You just end up using name calling because you have no argument other than using memes.
>>71029999
The moderators have to be out in the open for all to see, not behind closed doors in secret meetings with special interests.
>>71030067
Ametica also has welfare
>>71023506
>Being this retarded
Go back to the congo, with your nig-level logic.
>>71030279
But how? I simply dont get. Posting the meetings on internet or something?
>>71020440
Actually three things will happen.
The two you said, AND
The onslaught of automation.
Your job will be replaced by a robot, or a touchscreen.
A fast food joint that normally required 12 people to run it will be cut down to 3. A manager, someone to clean shit, and another person to refill the automatic food making robot when it runs empty.
The tech is already here. There's a company which made a machine that can prepare 360 burgers in an hour. http://www.businessinsider.com/momentum-machines-burger-robot-2014-8
>>71015960
I don't really understand this. I did the math yesterday because I'm about to graduate with debt, and I worked out that I'd need a little more than $300/wk to get by, which ended up putting my absolute minimum for survival right around $7.50/hr
That's after aggressive loan payments, probably 1.5x what I need for food, shelter, phone/internet, insurances, and putting some money away every week for emergencies.
I don't get it.
>>71015960
If you dont work a MW job, and therefore *it doesnt affect you* that he wants to raise the MW,
>the FUCK do you care about it?
>>71022018
>the anti-bernie image shows a yearly increase of 211 dollars and 44 cents in taxes for the lowest bracket.
>the probernie image shows a yearly increase of 1,845 dollars.
uhhh
>>71019919
Just because your high school civics class teaches you that keynesianism is the only economic theory doesn't mean it is. Just because money is circulating doesn't mean the economy is good.
$15 an hour in Kansas is insane, these rich white democrats who live in big cities have no clue what it's like for poor people in inner cities of shit states or who live rural.
This will bankrupt the Midwest, make it impossible for poor/uneducated coons to find work, the 7 remaining manufacturing jobs will be gone and inflation will turn the us into Zimbabwe part 2
>>71019919
Small businesses dont have to, and shouldnt have to pay for their employees health care. Taxes will be raised on them. And that money has already been in circulation, plus the job loss will mean less money in the hands of the poor.
>>71023506
>>minimum wage stays the same. PRICES STILL GOING UP
It's greed.
As long as they are greedy, there is no good fix to this. The prices will always go up, another dime or two will always be sucked from you.
It actually takes a company run by good people to pay good wages.
Aldi's food stores in the U.S. pay $15 per hour starting.
Why is that? It's because whoever owns this corporation decided it was right to pay this wage.
Yet walmart which is worth many billions more only pays 10.00 per hour.
Could walmart pay out even $20.00 per hour to their associates? Sure... will they do it? Probably not if they want to reach that big profit mark for next year.
The problem with minimum wage is unemployement
We have a very high minimum wage and workers right here, but the companies are scared to hire people because it's hard to fire them, or simply cannot hire them because it's not worth it
TLDR : Most 7.50 jobs would simply disappear, some of them replaced by high-demanding 15$ job when one guy do the work of 2/3 guys
Leading to a bunch of happy people, but also a lot of unemployed one because no one can afford them
>>71020440
"Americans are underpaid"
Americans have a higher medium income than most of Europe, everyone in southern europe is below our poverty line.
>>71024187
I cook my own food. McDonald's is cancer.
>>71015960
>Is this Jew deliberately trying to crash the US?
That is the plan. This, the monorail and high speed internet for the whole nation could each individually crash america and therefore the world economy. I have started to move all my assets into precious metals because there's a good chance if he doesn't win, Hillary will and she's even more retarded.
With jews you lose.
>>71030915
> the monorail and high speed internet for the whole nation could each individually crash america and therefore the world economy.
> transportation and communication will crash the world.
a ha aha aah aah aha ahaa ahaha
10/10 troll post
>>71030425
Would you trust to enter your banking information on a computer which had it's operating system run by someone other than you?
>>71022018
Either way, it's still AT LEAST some 9 trillion short of funding his plans. Some of the other things he's planning are even more expensive. He's basically going to tripple the post Obama national debt and turn America into an actual third world country.
>>71031120
It alredy happens,my banking information is accesible to the banks and the goverment. Hell, I cant put to much money on it without giving a justification.
>>71030209
The money to pay the bottom has to come from somewhere wether it's 7.50, 15 or even 20, when at the top the salary is in the millions. If his million dollar salary is dependent on having bottom workers then it might as well come out of his pocket.
>mfw this entire thread
It astounds me that people think that profit motive isn't the driving force behind an economy, and that an economy can thrive simply based on good feelings and "don't be greedy :)"
>>71028092
If little Mario can do it then it's probably in the works right now, watch out Zukkerburg!
>>71030196
You lost when you were born a nigger
Shin ne
>>71031306
>The money to pay the bottom has to come from somewhere
Yes, it comes from the actual profit makers up the food chain.
In your wonka world, is there two people? People who make 7.50 and millionaires?
This thread is like a whirlwind of shit in a porta-potty.
I'm paid $20 per hour and work 11 hour 4 days a week.
I also show up for work and don't complain. I put my love and hard work into my job.
Stop being cucks and reject work from shitty people. Simple as that.
Look at the company, look at it's values, look at the owner, look him right in his eye.
If the owner won't even shake your hand, don't work for him, destroy his business from within, make that place a living hell.
Stop being cucks and complaining because it's going to get you no where.
>>71031486
And here ladies and gentlemen is what desperation looks like on the internet.
>>71031674
>i can sell dirt to a man for 500$!!!
>people are nothing but a game to me I am the mastermind
>i compare the business of multinational corporations to my every day operations of being a small time weed dealer to my circle of nerdy shutin highschool friends
>>71022496
How much does rent cost? It costs less here.
>>71020440
>Americans are underpaid
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>71030084
Because your business probably hasn't sold millions of units that depend on your factory technology to run infrastructure. The bigger your business is, the more consumers buy your product and use it for daily function, the better chance you have at being bailed out. GM got bailed out because GM has a HUGE market advantage of competition compared to other nations.
![SFltLVx[1].webm](https://i.imgur.com/kIhGeEy.jpg "SFltLVx[1]")
