>the perfect balkan peninsula
We got the wrong name.
>>70948110
>Turkey Still exists
>No Greater Yugoslavia,
>Independent Slovenia and Croatia
>Albania exists
>Perfect
Are all kebab women genocided along with the men? Do you at least keep the attractive ones?
>>70948265
kek my slovenian friend
>>70948660
a kebab is a kebab so no exceptions
>>70948110
>>70948265
>>70948311
Did someone say perfect balkans? : ^)
>>70949490
explain the colours please?
>Pontus
>Antiochia
>Cappadocia
>not greek
Fucking faggot.
>>70949849
ε όχι kαι παλιοπούστης ρε αδελφέ
χααχχααχχααχ
ντάξη είπαμε μην τα θέλουμε όλα διkά μας
>>70949490
>glorious croat kingdom
>just another SHS meme
We'll never have a southern slav superpower state
>>70949725
albania getting their rightful clay, croats getting their historical clay plus some sexy expansions towards the north
wallachia's independent, should've made transylvania to the north now that i think about it
serbia still exists just for shits and giggles and i think greece should look something like it did 600 years ago : ^)
>>70950104
feels fuken bad man : ^(
>>70949988
Δηλαδή θα πάρουμε την Ιωνία που δεν έχει Έλληνες(εkτός αν θεωρείς τους Τούρkους μουσουλμάνους Έλληνες) kαι όχι τον πόντο kαι την Αντιόχεια που εχουν αντίστοιχα Έλληνοφωνους kαι Έλληνες ορθόδοξους.
>>70948110
Over 100 light years in MS Paint
>former vassals dreaming wild
Pfft.
Not even triggered.
>>70950832
I'm puking right now as I write this and still haven't finished
>>70951380
I know that Turks hate Kurdistan
>>70950832
the worst fucking map i could've ever imagined
>>70948110
>Cyprus
>Greek
wew lad
>>70951591
I know that Northern serbians hate Yugoslavia
Who do you faggots msturbate about having lands inhabited by albanians.Seriously,why the fuck would you need them.Also
>Turkey
>Balkans
>>70951788
kek, true on both
>>70948110
It should all be ruled by Turkey.
>>70948110
>Besrmtna ideologija
>>70951743
along with literally every other nation that was in yugoslavia with the exception of serbs
>>70952038
t. Hans Merkelovic
>>70951945
shut up Britainstan
>>70950832
>He fell for the Kurd meme
They kill and steal from Christians.
>>70952038
But you are just all serbs
You are like Ukranians trying to claim that they are not Russians
Serbians=Serbians
Croatians=Serbians
Montenegreans=Serbians
Macedonian=Serbians
Slovenians=Serbians
Yugoslavia=Greater Serbia
deal with it
>>70952213
Still better than turks
>>70952213
t. Ahmet
>>70948110
It will never be perfect again.
>>70952362
What the fuck do you know Joel Campbell?
>>70951945
i approve of this my islander friend
also thanks for removing pkk from your premises
>>70952362
not really
we're as different as the brits to the french are
the only thing we share is the language, somewhat
Hey now I'm for Greater Greece but none of them live in Anatolia anymore
>>70952513
I know that you are muslim filth that should be genocided
>>70952462
>ahmet
>caring about killing Christians
>greek doesn't even know his own history
>>70952757
>Step 1.Conquer
>Step 2.Genocide
>Step 3.Populate with Greek people
>Step 4.???
>step 5.Profit
>>70952764
kek why are you butthurt nigger?
>>70952764
says some 5" look alike indian fag living on an island, kill yourself
>>70952861
the only people in the world that dislike Kurds are turks. Math say you're turk.
>>70952919
I am not, I am just shitposting while evading my real life responsabilities
>tfw I have the most important exams of my life in less than a week
>tfw I am shitposting instead of studying
:'^(
>>70952958
t.ahmet bin kuruatia
>>70953175
I'm Armenian and I don't particularly like Kurds as well.
A muslims is a muslim and just like the Turks the Kurds had an active role in genociding Pontic Greeks, Assyrians, and Armenians.
Don't put your faith in any muslim man they'll always backstab you.
>>70953209
Then get off 4chan.Shut your computer down.Put your cellphone on airplane mode and go study.Nobody's going to do it for you.
>>70953428
O-ok, If I win the exams and become an important person I promise to invest in Albania
Thank you Albania-kun
:^3
>>70948110
I guess you will have to come and remove it.
>>70953355
>turks back stabbed us
>we dindu nuffin we wuz gud boys
>>70953596
If you are studyig medicine we would need a kidney remover
>>70953898
made me kek , i still want to genocide you , but credit is due where it's due
>>70948110
now it is
there you go
>>70953898
>divert refugee flow through albania
>albania becomes a super power from all dat kidney money
>>70952362
>But you are just all serbs
haha what? top kek. That's like saying Costa Ricans are all mexican.
>>70954327
y-you too
>>70954966
You are right that all the Central American Spanish speaking people are really the same people. If they also had only one country, say Mexico, they would all be Mexican. So basically they all are Mexican
>>70953898
Based as fuck. Rare among albanians.
>>70954681
hoho you cheeky cunt, give istra back
>>70954702
your lack of knowledge of the region and it's people is astounding
>>70954702
Why make a greece with 12 m greeks and 50 million turks?Just why?What the fuck are serbs and bulgars doing together?Why give half of gypsies to Hungary?Just off yourself nordic roach
>>70955403
serb bro doesnt make good exapmle. its not all about race idiot. its history and morals. you filthy weebs will not approve when I say japanese are chinese right? well same fucking thing. your comment and dat map up there are just fucking rasist to me. idk about the others but bulgaria is a fucking special snowflake seriously.
>>70955403
I'd say from Nicaragua up. Costa Rica and Panama are two completely different worlds from the rest of it.
>>70956114
>Rare among albanians.
Albanians are rare among us
>>70957714
>Albanians are rare among us
wut?
>>70956623
So you didn't read the map. It said Turks were expelled. Bulgarian and Serbo-croatian languages used have a dialect continuum so they are basically the same peoples. Half of Gypsies to Hungary because the region is populated with Magyars some of whom have been romanialized but that could be reversed in one generation
>>70958242
Dude just stop embarrassing yourself.That is a map made by a 4 year old with paint.
Serbia where majority are Serbs, Croatia where majority are Croats etc. This would be best because people here cant coexist.
>>70958605
Then why do you want 2 million albanians in your country?
>>70958836
Can black people be racist??
>>70958858
Towards chimps?
>>70958836
I dont.
>>70958605
Most common sense thing I've read. Fuck Bosnia basically.
>>70959400
good
>>70958605
What is really seperating you people from co-existing? Aside from religion I can't really see why you people aren't able to form a nation together. If you can't form an ethnic bond, form a national one. If Switzerland which consists of italians, germans and french can be prosperous and stable, why can't you?
>>70959629
I also dont want you taking cultural heritage and claiming it as your own, have you so little history that you claimed Nemanjic dynasty as Albanian?
>>70959899
Serbs and Croats are different way to much, our language is only 0,1% similar, and genetically we are completely different.
>>70948110
best belka coming through
>>70953898
Good damn that was a nice one
>>70949988
>>70950438
This is such a shitty rip off alphabet.
>>70952468
Does Tri Moreta mean Three Seas? I see Bulgarians post it all the time
>>70960119
>you claimed Nemanjic dynasty as Albanian
literally wut?
>>70960629
The Greek alphabet is a literal 10/10
>>70960716
Think fast
>Tri moreta
>Megali Idea
Choose one
>>70960733
Are trying to*
>>70960906
No,how can we claim a dinasty named Nemanjic.That'd be like you claim The Kastrioti family.Oh wait..
>>70960733
Kosovars unironically claim that, they say Nemanjići were actually Albanian dynasty Nimani and that all churches were built by Albanians.
>>70948110
Illyrian master race here
Go and eat some shit filthy greek
>>70961044
I don't know anything about that but some churches were built by albanians.It most likely is some WE WUZ theory which are so common in the balkans.
>>70961044
Our Albanian friend is uninformed.
>>70960844
>Megali Idea
Auto den eipa
>>70961155
What is this?
>>70961490
The gene of Illyrians
C'kemi vlla. Me sa kuptoj un nga kjo harte, ne kemi qire tere Ballkanin
>>70961734
Mir Ballkanit po ne kemi fiksim t'ia fusim dhe njeri-tjetrit.Ty nga te kemi?
>>70948110
>not under their original master aka Hungarian master race
garbage tier
>>70961734
Haha. Un fajin ja jap turkut the komunismit. Katastrof fare
Un nga Fieri. Po ti?
>>70962286
Tall karin ti dhe un nga Fieri jam.Sa vjec je ti dhe kur ke levizur andej?
>>70961155
why do albanians and other balkanfags pride themselves so much of how "illyrian" they are? what did illyrians ever do anyway?
>>70961155
wrong hablo group retard
>>70961197
None of churches were built by Albanians, because there was no Albanians there before Ottoman conquest.
And this comes from a person who thinks Kosovo should be outside of Serbia.
It's a simple historical fact. Kosovo was center of medieval Serbian state, capital was there. There's few Albanians present in 14th and 15th century, that's it. Note that in that time there was 0 tension between Albanians and Serbs so there is no realistic reason to doubt the veracity of data.
>>70962658
This is just a little part of the list
>>70962401
28. U ben nja 10 ketej :/
po ti
>>70962737
Lol Serbs more illyirian than Albanians.
>>70962737
Nice paint job. Next time chose a color less gay. Thanks
>>70962737
>Moldavs are illyrian
>>70962658
They wuz kangs n shieet
>>70962765
>there was no Albanians there before Ottoman conquest.
That's a little bit far fetched.Populations in the Balkans have been displaced constantly.You don't seriously believe 2 million albanians popped out of nowhere?
>Romania
>Balkan
>>70962887
Un 18.Dhe un kam deshire te leviz per ne Gjermani.Me ca merresh andej?Dhe si sillen francezet me shqiptaret?
>>70963222
There was some Albanian presence of course, but it was minimal.
>The Dečani chrysobulls from 1321-1331 by Stephen Uroš III Dečanski of Serbia contains a detailed list of households and villages in Metohija and northwestern Albania. The first charter concludes that this region was ethnically Serb.[15] 89 settlements with 2,666 households were recorded, out of which 86 were Serb (96,6%), and 3 were Albanian (3,3%); there were 2,166 livestock households of 2,666 agricultural households, out of which 2,122 were Serb (98%), and 44 were Albanian (2%).[16]
Albanians migrated there after Ottoman conquest, and gradually over centuries ethnic composition changed. Often violently, but that's history.
>2 million albanians popped out of nowhere
Why not?
You had Serbs in Croatia who were settlers and became ethnic majority in some regions.
As you said, populations were displaced constantly.
>>70952362
You are correct.
Fuck off Četnik sympathizer.
>>70963222
No they weren't. They were just another group of tribes to get subjugated by the Romans, the real power. It's silly to have any dickwaving nationalistic pride about them.
>>70963081
No, im not saying we are illyrian, im saying that Albanians who pride themselves solely on it are less illyrian than most Balkan.
>>70963222
2 million albanians can be easily removed.
Last time our army went to Kosovo, despite being bombed by NATO, in 3 months, 800k albanians ran away.
Your people would leave inside a year, all of them the moment international protection stops.
>>70963439
You have to give more convincing info than serb propaganda.
>Albanians migrated there after Ottoman conquest
when did this happen according to you?
>>70963523
It's clay dispute.If we wuz illyrians then we wuz here first.This means we iz kangz of kosovo n shiet
>>70963789
We are talking about the middle ages you ignorant
>>70963841
Problem is you built your whole nation on we wuz illyrian attitude.
>>70963841
Ah, I see where it comes from. You Eurofags and your disputes. Can't you all just get along? Can't you share Kosovo?
You can thank me later.
>>70963340
Keta sillen shume mire por me pune nuk behen leke. Sa per te ngren buke dhe dy lek menjane. Do nderroj profesion dhe shtet se franca eshte kot. Me mire gjermania por sic mund ta shofesh eshte ne krize tani.
>>70963222
No,moldaivans and romanians are thraco-dacian tribes that were romanised.Illirians were a thracian tribe too.
>>70962887
proofless opinions from a 19th nationalist era.
>>70961155
false.E1b is North African not illirian.illirians were I2a genetic marker bearers aka Dinarids.
>>70958242
false.There is no such thinga s hungarian ethnicity.It is hungarians who are magyarised romanians.
Transylvania always had romanian majority by far, even today its formed from 85% romanians.
>>70963685
The real illirians are the bosnians,serbs,montenegrins and croats but especially bosnian croats.
>>70963439
>>70963222
Albanians actually shifted southwestwards as they were present in significant numbers not only in the areas south of Nis, but also in Sandzak and Kopaonik during the Medieval and Ottoman eras.
Some parts of present-day Albania lacked Albanians until the Medieval Era as well, particularly along the coast and towards the current border with Greece.
There is recorded history of Albanians living in Stara Hercegovina as well (Pljevlja/Niksic) and let's not forget that some of the tribes along the present day Montenegrin-Albanian border were a bit more fluid in ethnic composition a few hundred years ago.
>>70963965
I'm talking about right now.
Why do we want 2 million albanians in our country ?
We don't.
We want the land they currently control, albanians will be dealt with easily.
Or is Albania going to help Kosovo with your chinese copies of t-55s ?
>>70963841
>when did this happen
From 15th century onward?
>Serb propaganda
Propaganda from 14th century? Are you serious?
>>70964227
moldavians are russian-romanian-gypsies
>>70964145
When you think about it a city in india has more pooinloos than all the balkans together....
>>70964027
It was built on an ethnical base of albanians.Anyway isn't your country's reproduction rate 1.44 per woman?pathetic
>>70964205
Puno me miell po e pe keq.S'do jesh as i pari as i fundit.
>>70964384
What?
>>70964384
If you masturbate to it enough it might come true.
>>70964421
I'm saying it's a made up statement
>>70964345
That would imply that Serbs and Croats may have some slightly possible, but highly improbable thing in common, that is impossible.
>>70964619
Patriotic Albanian diaspora from France
never fails to amuse me.
>>70964505
>moldavians are russian-romanian-gypsies
now this is a gelous subjective opinion.Moldovans are romanised thraco-dacians.The country was formed from fleeing vlachs from Maramures(from dacian Moros) from magyars.
And i always wondered, why do albanians have no genetic connection with any balkanic country(except greeks but greeks are not genetically balkans)?
>>70964746
they do,also the language.
>>70964345
The gypsi in charge of telling the story of Balkans?
>>70964837
Not possible, our languages are 99.9% different, we dont have one thing in common.
Here is a map of illiria.Notice that only a small part of Albania is covered.
Like every geneticist&historian today agree, the real illirians are the croats&bosnians who were slavonised , same as the thracians were slavonised(bulgarians) same as the dacians were romanised(romanians).
>>70964737
I don't need to, you have to realise that international protection will not be there forever.
We can wait.
Albania won't be useful to USA forever.
>>70964974
with croatian?arent they 2 mutually intelligible?
>>70964837
WE WUZ KANGZ.DA ZERBS STOLE OUR TECHNOLOGY.WE HAD FLYING CARS AND SHIET.No seriously,we are illyrians.Everyone else is slav.It's this simple.
>>70965076
Completely different.
>>70965045
It will as long as you suck russian dick
Knock knock
>>70965122
>No seriously,we are illyrians
No you arae not.This is a 20th century invention of Hoxha.There is absolutely NO contemporany writting,archaelogical&linguistical or any sort of proof of this statement.
>Everyone else is slav
Slav is a linguistic group.The "slavs" geentically are russians,ukraineans,bellarusians,poles.
>>70965233
We did so for last 150 years before, and it was ours.
>>70965122
Yes, you and almost half of Balkan have illyiran origin. Congratulations.
A modest proposal to fix all questions...
>>70965359
Yes but geopolitics change.
>>70965390
We have a lot more illyrian admixture than you.
>>70964746
>>70964345
Illyrians is really a catch-all term used for a collection of many tribes that appeared in the Western Balkans.
However, the populations that do resemble one another the most in respect to their roots prior to the Slavic Migrations into the Balkans are those who were eventually called Vlach (not including present-day Romanians nor Vlachs from Eastern Serbia).
This means those from the Dinaric Alps who were least exposed to mixing with Slavs and who were Slavicized latest or not at all.
Croats from Dalmatia, Bosnia, Hercegovina, 80% of Croats in Lika, half of Croats in Slavonia.
All Montenegrins.
All Serbs from Hercegovina, Montenegro, Dalmatia, roughly half to 3/4s from Bosnia, almost all from Western Serbia (West of the Morava).
Also include in this Albanians of the Northern Highlands around Skadar, Ulcinj, Bar, and the Albanian-Montenegrin border.
>>70964157
Destroy the rest of turkey and then youve truly got the best map bulgarbro.
>>70965599
"a lot more" well if we can trust those maps which show admixture in population, you are wrong.
This is Illyria, before the mongols from siberia come into the Balkans
>>70965599
You do realise that's my point right ?
Geopolitics right now are in your favor.
They'll change.
>>70965848
Fake, it was bigger, like our galaxy was illyrian.
>>70965007
I repeat:
Albanians were much more present in modern day Southern Serbia south of Nis, in Sandzak, Kopaonik, Stari Vlah, Montenegro and moved southwestwards into modern day Albania including Southern and Coastal Albania where proto-Albanians weren't present.
>>70965853
They are changing.Russia is becoming even weaker.They were shot down by fucking roaches.
>>70965810
Look at the map the french anon posted
>>70965599
>We have a lot more illyrian admixture than you.
Albanai I2a:12%
Serbia I2a:33%
dont think so.
>>70965726
false.Vlach is a linguistic term.All the vlachs from balkans came from Upper Timoc-Transylvania region, where the romanisation of Dacia happened.After the slavic migration a good part of them fleed to balkans down the Sava up to Greece.
>>70965848
false map.
>>70966054
false map.
>>70965985
It is true that albanians did not live in present Albania but we dont truly know were they lived firstly.
>>70966054
>"french"
kek
He's well known poster, he's your diaspora.
I think we should keep in mind that there is 0% of any similarities between Serbs and Croats.
>>70965953
lol
'illiria' mean 'freedom' in albanian. what means in serbian?
serbia have nothing to do with illyria
>>70966151
Incorrect.
"Vlach" meant different things in different places. See the attached image for a post I made on Vlachs and what that term means in the Western Balkans, not in Romania nor in Eastern Serbia where it has a different meaning.
The illyrians were romanised as dalmatians for the most part and then slavonised in the salvic migration.
>>70966395
>'illiria' mean 'freedom' in albanian. what means in serbian?
this is an argument grandmothers use in front of their block.Hilarious
You have to realsie that albanains being illirians was an invention.Forget what you learned in schools.
>>70966395
Neither do Albanians.
Names like Dardan and shit only came to life in 19th century with the spread of idea.
In reality it's highly possible Albanians came to Balkans after Slavs.
This shit doesn't really matters, but it starts to matter when you spout shit like ''it's ours cause we're Illyrian''.
Everyone in Balkans is Illyrian. Native genes are dominant.
South Slavic unification movement was called ''Illyrian''.
>>70966541
name Balkan is of Turkish origin, so logically ...
>>70963789
>cause war for no reason
>destroy and shell people's homes, forcing them to relocate
>including native serbs
>somehow be proud of this
Oh Serbia. You are the ISIS of slavs.
>>70966151
>All the vlachs from balkans came from Upper Timoc-Transylvania region, where the romanisation of Dacia happened.
Fucking retard.
>>70948110
Keep dreaming for Constantinople and Smyrna, faggot.
>>70966527
>screenshot from stormfront
.t Ante Pavelic
On a more serious note, Vlachs does mean different things to different people
Example in some official documents Austro-Hungary reffered to everybody as Vlachs including croats, serbs, romanians..
>>70966694
>In reality it's highly possible Albanians came to Balkans after Slavs.
No it isn't. Whoever believes that nonsense has no clue about history nor genetics.
>>70966541
>The illyrians were romanised
And this. Illyrian was dead language in by 3rd century. They spoke Latin.
By simply logic, if Albanians were direct descendants of Illyrians, they'd speak some version of Latin like Romanians.
First mention of Albanian language in in late 13th century.
There's a really huge gap that is hard to explain if there was continuous and numerous Albanian presence. That region was ruled by Greeks, Italians, Slavs, and yet Albanians aren't mentioned in any record for several centuries.
Meanwhile same Byzantines mentioned even Slavic tribes that didn't live on their territory.
>>70966853
.t Albanian Diaspora
Frenchie was already here, I was wondering when would you show up Skreli
>>70966694
If you are 100% illyrian you are albanian
If you are not, you are mixed illyrian-slav-somethingelse
>>70966954
That's actually from Anthrogenica where Dorkymon, a Romanian, and I were discussing Vlachs. Vlachs are my focus of historical research, hence the post I made there.
>>70948110
Make it all blue and then we'll talk
>>70967112
So there are no Albanians?
>>70967017
Okay, explain this then:
>>70967043
Croats and Serbs (and even other Slavic ''tribes'' like Paganians and Zachlumians) are mentioned in Frankish or Byzantine or other sources.
Do you seriously believe it's possible Byzantines, at that time still having superior administration, managed to miss entire nation speaking a totally foreign language on their own territory?
Then Normans conquered that land, and no mention of Albanians either.
>>70967051
Except that's fucking wrong, you moron. I'm from Detroit and I hate Albanians just as much as you, probably more so because I live close to Dearborn where I see muslims destroy the very fabric of my country. Albanians, mudslimes they are, at least don't glorify destroying people's houses like they won a war or something. That's a Muslim tactic.
>>70967112
No one is 100% Illyrian, nor were Illyrians a real nation of sorts. Illyrian was a term for tribes that lived north of Greeks in antiquity.
Sorry but most of your history is literally fan-fiction.
>>70967170
Good tell me who are Vlachs from Eastern Serbia?
>>70967395
>Paganians and Zachlumians
Are there any sources where they aren't mentioned as being strictly serbian?
>>70966527
false.
You are trying to use religion as a proof.This does not work.
All the vlachs had to come from a single point where romanisation happened then spread.
Morlach are a istro-romanian tribe, almost extinct.We know how they ended there.
>>70967170
>Anthrogenica
Nije sija, nego vrat
>>70967395
The Proto-Albanians were relegated at the time to the extreme highlands in places like Montenegro and Northern Albania, without any notable towns, unlike the Slavic towns set up by the varying Slavic tribes who coalesced into Serbs and Croats.
In parallel to these Serbian, Croatian and other Slavic entities, we had the pre-Slavonic populations that were only beginning to be assimilated, or not assimilated at all.
On top of this, there were many outbreaks of plague that continually decimated populations.
Lastly, if we are to rely on texts, where is the evidence for a migration of Albanians from outside of the Balkans into present-day Albania?
...not to mention the genetic evidence that exists placing Albanians squarely where they are right now.
>>70967591
100% Means no slav blood, no barbar blood, no latin blood.
The tribes were mixed. Later come the slaves and they get some dick
That's why you are part Illyrian
>>70967755
My point is Byzantines even bothered to make distinction about shit like that but they managed to miss Albanians who speak a totally ayy lmao language.
>strictly serbian
You should know that even our own history teaches of possibility that Serbs were simply one tribe that assimilated various other Slavic tribes in Balkans who came before.
In the same record that speaks of that (DAI), they make Diocleans separate from Serbs.
You shouldn't really consider Byzantine sources to be 100% correct, but missing out Albanians is simply too great error to occur, especially since Albania was ruled by Byzantines.
>>70967993
>You are trying to use religion as a proof.This does not work.
>All the vlachs had to come from a single point where romanisation happened then spread.
You're a fucking idiot.
Vlach had different meanings in different places at different times.
In the Western Balkans, it meant those pre-Slavonic populations that were Romanized.
Populations across ALL of the Balkans were Romanized.
>>70968206
>Populations across ALL of the Balkans were Romanized.
False.And there existed no romanisation beneth the Jrek Line.Only Dalmatia and Banat-Transylvanai region were historically romanised.
>>70968030
>where is the evidence for migration
There is really none, it's just a hypothesis.
But there is no evidence for what you're saying.
>...not to mention the genetic evidence that exists placing Albanians squarely where they are right now.
First, I wonder how you came to that, and second, that doesn't really mean anything.
They could've simply assimilated natives, just like we did.
Again, explain the fact that Illyrian language(s) were dead in late Roman Empire. Population here was heavily Latinized. If Albanians were really what they think they are, they'd speak some version of Latin.
I mean, Dacia was ruled for far shorter period and today Romanians speak Latin language. Explain that please.
>>70967612
Starosjedioci (old school).
As per Jovan Cvijic, historical documentation, and now genetics, Serbs can be roughly divided into two large groupings separated by the Morava River with a further separation for the Torlaci.
Serbs in Western Serbia proper (Cacak, Sabac, Valjevo) are pretty much all immigrants from Stari Vlah and Stara Hercegovina, as attested to by both Vuk Karadzic (himself of this stock) and Jovan Cvijic.
>>70968364
>False.And there existed no romanisation beneth the Jrek Line.Only Dalmatia and Banat-Transylvanai region were historically romanised.
So where do the Vlachs of Dalmatia come from if not Dalmatia as I've already explained?
>>70968483
>Jovan Cvijic
Cite him when it suits you.
Claim he is insane when his theory doesn't suit you
top kek Hrvoje
>>70968409
>First, I wonder how you came to that, and second, that doesn't really mean anything.
>They could've simply assimilated natives, just like we did.
You're making assertions here about assimilating others.
Where did they do come from then?
>>70968684
Where did I claim that he's insane?
>>70968745
I saw one theory that they came from present-day Romania, but where they came from before that is a mystery.
In any case, I don't get your point man, I'm simply shooting down your theory, I'm not really saying I have any real proof for mine.
But the fact I don't have proof for mine doesn't mean that I can't shoot down yours.
>>70968483
The vlachs from Timoc and Serbia are native thraco-getae-dacian tribes that were pushed by the slavic migration.
>>70968597
Vlachs of Dalmatia != Dalmatians
Vlach != dalmatian
Before we enter in actual facts, see a video here about istro-romanians(last vlachs of Croatia) claiming that their ancestors told them that they acme from Carphatians!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7StuTq5OF0
>>70969000
Populations don't simply magically appear in a place. Genetics is only providing us even more proof of the Balkan nature of the Albanians.
Think about it: why was there no historical mention of Vlachs in Croatia and Bosnia until the 13th century until the colonization of Catholic Vlachs onto the island of Rab happened.
Where were they prior to that from when the Slavs appeared in that area?
>>70968101
>they make Diocleans separate from Serbs.
He just never mentiones their ethnicity. Guess even back then you faggots were irrelevant.
>>70968814
Not you, other croats.
Maybe even you, just not in this thread.
>>70969151
No one here but you is talking about the Cici Istro-Roumanians.
I'm referring to the Serbianized, Croatinized, and Albanized Vlachs of the Dinaric Alps.
>>70969565
> Serbianized, Croatinized, and Albanized
then you put the problem in another lighting.Im only saying that the original vlachs of balkans came from Carphatians.I dont care that over thousands of years they were serbianised,croatiniasied,albised,greekonised etc
>>70969380
>Think about it: why was there no historical mention of Vlachs in Croatia and Bosnia until the 13th century until the colonization of Catholic Vlachs onto the island of Rab happened.
But there was, the earliest mention of vlachs in Croatia is in 650 in Rab island.
>>70969380
Vlachs were mentioned in 11th century. Besides Vlachs are simply natives who speak Latin. They aren't really interesting or specific. Nor were they particularly different from populations that ran to southern cities when Slavs came.
Albanians however, due to virtue of their language are.
>populations don't simply magically appear
They actually do in chaotic regions beset by invasions and war like Balkans.
I'm simply telling you that "Albanians are direct Illyrian descendants" has serious logical flaws.
Most important one that Illyrian was a dead language in late Roman period.
>>70969543
Other Croats can speak for themselves.
Cvijic's work on the migration of Vlachs from Stari Vlah and Stara Hercegovina to Western Serbia is the best work we have on that topic and should be respected, just like Corovic's work on the spread of the Orthodox Vlachs and Serbs and their Serbianization into Bosnia and further West.
>>70969539
>irrelevant
But we revolted and created a state before you did faggot.
Also our prince dicked Bulgarian princess.
>>70969757
When did these 'original Vlachs' come from the Carpathians?
Please cite your source for the 650 date. Every specialist in Croatia and Serbia would love to see that.
>>70969813
Where were Vlachs mentioned west of the Drina in the 11th century?
Albanians are mix of what was known as Illyrian and Thracian as the lines between those two blurs in many places.
>>70969985
"Original" Vlachs were all over the Balkans m8. Vlachs are Latinized populations of Balkans and present-day Romania.
Those later Vlachs are mentioned because they became more relevant, that's it.
>>70970166
Tell that to the Romanian, not me.
He's the one saying that they all came from one place and I'm the one saying that they were the Romanized pre-Slavonic populations of the Balkans.
>>70969813
>Vlachs were mentioned in 11th century
false, there are mentionings way before.
>>70969985
Badurina Kronike found in Rab Island mentions on Dalmatia Crni Vlasi, Maurovlahi, Nigri Latini, Morovlahi living in Kotar, Dubrovnik, Neretva, Split, Klis, Sinj, Nin, Obrovac, mount Velebit, south Senj to Zrmanja
>>70970156
Do you know origin of term Vlach?
Why are we even talking about Vlachs? Albanians are subject here.
Those Vlachs you speak of is later name for this population.
But when Croats invaded Latinized population moved to coastal cities for example.
>>70970384
false.Prove where did this romanisation in balkans happened.
>>70969985
Chocobo pepe
>>70970450
Romanization happened in Roman Dalmatia for example as you yourself stated up above.
Are you fucking retarded?
>>70970450
Everywhere north of Jiraček line?
>>70948110
pretty good
>>70970543
But the Dalmatians spoke dalmatian not a vlach dialect and dalmatians were a different ethnicity,
>>70970564
yes but only in Timoc.
>>70970429
If you read the post I linked above in the image I attached you will read that I state that the term Vlach meant different things during different times in respect to different people.
Yes, when Slavs (and Avars) invaded, some fled to the towns on the coast (where many died of plagues) and many fled to the interior where they practiced Transhumance.
>>70970698
"Vlach" is a later term. We are talking about several centuries here. When Slavs invaded Latin was more or less same in Balkans.
Later different dialects appeared. For some reason this very simple discussion where we aren't really disagreeing ended up confusing as fuck.
Massive love to all the Balkans except Albanians. You aren't Illyrians. Forget that idea, no history supports this. If you are Illyrians then I am Mohawk because I live in Canada.
>>70970698
The "Dalmatians that spoke Dalmatian" that you are referring to are those that sought shelter in the towns along the Adriatic Coast.
The last speaker of this language died on Krk in the late 19th century.
However, the overwhelming amount of Romanized dwellers of Dalmatia who survived the Gothic, Avar, and Slavic invasions fled to the mountains where they became shepherds and practiced Transhumance, eventually undergoing assimilation over time into the Croat and Serb nations.
What happened east of the Morava River and especially in present-day Romania was a different matter.
Someone said perfect balkans :)
>>70970747
Okay but now back to Albanians: do you accept that direct link to Illyrians is dubious at best?
Just because I can't explain where they came from doesn't make them native.
The real question is:
How did these Vlachs separate themselves from Proto-Albanians and how similar were the languages they spoke around the time that the Slavs arrived?
>>70971075
>Bulgaria gets random Romanians
>Serbia gets random Bulgarians
Epic.
>>70971201
>Proto-Albanians
No such thing.
There is no mention of Albanians before 13th century.
By the way, Albanian is foreign name. It's not their name in Albanian.
>>70971230
Romania is gypo.
Serbia minority in dat land my dawg.
>>70971108
Again:
The term Illyrian is a catch-all term. Croatians, Serbs (West of the Morava), Montenegrins, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians all have rights to this claim with no one having more right than anyone else.
Just because Albanians lack a significant Slavic element to them doesn't grant them title over Illyrians.
Think about it: in the 1830s and 1840s the big debate in Croatian Intelligentsia was whether to call ourselves Croatians or Illyrians. It could have gone either way, just like Serbs today could be called Rascians after Raska.
>>70971350
How can there be no Proto-Albanian if there are Albanians today?
Albania is a foreign name.
So is Croatia.
These are exonyms, just like how we call Germans Nijemci/Nemci.
>>70971424
You forget that most of your cities were Greek colonies. Albanian has a lot of Greek words.....Illyrian is something convenient to deny Slavic or Hellenic pasts. Just like Turks in the Black Sea region.
>>70970966
There was no latin when slavs invaded balkans as neo-latin langauges already formed.
It was either dalmatian or romanian(vlach) dialects
>>70971037
2 types of vlachs are existed in Croatia:istro-vlachs and morlachs,both migrators from Romania.Istro-vlachs speak istro-romanian(still present) while morlachs spoke krko-vlach(see vlach Krk village from illirian Kurikta).
When slavs came , at the end of VI century,they changed the name of the Island Veglia in Krk(from ex-illirian kurikta).In Omišalj, Dobrinj, Vrbnik and Baška, east of Krk, appeared the old croat,staročakavski jezik, that extends through the whole island except Dubašnica and Šotoventa , where vlach predominated(krko-vlach dialect) similar to the istro-vlach and at Kornić, Punat and Dubašnica the old language veclisun/velisto(that later transformed in dalmatian)
>>70971357
Romanians are Romanians and gypsies are gypsies. In any case Romanians are bro-tier.
>>70971424
Yeah but that was dumb since Croats and Serbs called themselves same in 9th century.
See, Franks mention us. Byzantines mention us. We wuz conquerorz n shieet.
No one mentions Albanians in any way.
>>70971075
i prefer Ohrid back than Tsarigrad tb h
Serbianiggers.
Kek.
>>70971075
t. Colonial
>>70971550
Hrvat nije stran naziv. Hrvati su se zvali Hrvatima u 9om vijeku, kao što rekoh.
>>70971609
Didn't know that, I just presumed they spoke same dialect.
i would kill each and every one of you autists in this thread
>>70971201
Vlachs spoke vlachic dialects and the language, as can be seen today, are 180 degrees opposite.
>>70971350
true, its shiptar, albanian doesnt exist.
>>70971424
same as the transylvanian movemenmt from that period that gave the name of Romania.It was either Romania or Dacia.Stupid italians influence decided it as Romania because they needed a buffer state.
>>70971585
Actually albanian has very few greek words, this is another reason taht they did not live in today Albania.
>>70971609
Wrong.
Vlachs of Croatia over history:
1. those Romanized who fled to towns on the coast and became "Dalmatians" (died out/assimilated).
2. the Catholic tribes of the interior of Dalmatia along the Dinaric Alps first mentioned in the 13th century (assimilated into the Croatian corpus)
3. the Orthodox Vlachs aka Morlachs/Maurovlachs who arrived from Stara Hercegovina, Stari Vlah and Bosnia (these became Serbs)
4. The Istro-Roumanian Cici who are still a separate group today
Albanians are native to the illyrian coast, guys. Maybe not the exact place they occupy now, but somewhere between the Adriatic and Thrace.
Albanian has Doric Greek and Classical Latin loan words and stuff, which is only possible if the language developed under their influence.
>>70971803
The word Croat is foreign to Croatians. Croats call themselves Hrvati.
The word Albanian is foreign to Albanians. Albanians call themselves Shqiptare.
How is one different from the other?
>>70971989
What where they doing for a thousand years since they dissapeared before Rome fell? Did the spend a millenia fucking goats in the mountains?
>>70972036
Dude except Croat is directly derived from Hrvat while Albanian is the name for region, based on Celtic tribe (I think) that lived there.
>>70971989
Albanians didn't appear along the coast until later. They were present in today's Northern Albania, Eastern Montenegro, Southwestern Serbia.
>>70971820
Languages change definitely but if you look at the root of many of their words. Slavic and Greek. Etnike...εθνιkή....the list goes on. Problem is that all need to find their similarities and just except Ellas is superior, isn't that right Bulgaria/Romania...our bastard children.
>>70971918
you cannot call false and give your proofless acusations.Either you give facts or dont speak.
>>70972036
Croatians was the name of the slavic tribe taht gave you the language
>>70972174
fuck off Schlomo
>>70972109
Pretty much fucked sheep for a long time, just like our own Vlaji until the Frankopans and Subici put them to good use raiding the towns on the Jadran :)
>>70972109
Best post in the thread. Kek.
>>70971989
>>70972174
False false!Its quite the opposite!
Here you have the most famous bulgarian historian and founder of thracology institute,Georgiev making 6 points of albanians not being autochtonos
Number 1: The Illyrian toponyms known from antiquity, e.g. Shkoder from the ancient Scodra (Livius), Tomor from Tomarus (Strabo, Pliny, etc.), have not been directly inherited in Albanian: the contemporary forms of these names do not correspond to the phonetic laws of Albanian. The same also applies to the ancient toponyms of Latin origin in this region.
Number 2: The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Rumanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.
Number 3: The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.
Number 4: Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.
Number 5:The Albanians are not mentioned before the 9th century a.d., although place names and personal names from the whole region of Albania are attested in numerous documents from the 4th century onwards.
Number 6: The old home of the Albanians must have been near to that of the proto-Rumanians. The oldest Latin elements in Albanian come from proto-Rumanian, i.e. eastern Balkan Latin, and not from Dalmatian, western Balkan Latin that was spoken in Illyria. Cf. the phonetic development of the following words: Vulgar Latin caballum 'horse' Rum. cal, Alb. kal Vulgar Latin cubitum 'elbow' Rum. cot, Alb. kut Vulgar Latin lucta 'struggle, fight' Rum. luptd, Arum, luftd, Alb. luft'e
>>70972306
Those are the four groups who were called Vlachs over a 1,000 period in Croatia.
Deal with it.
>>70972313
Turkroach alert
>>70972313
>mfw our closest relatives are the jews
what in the name of god is this sorcery
>>70972173
>SW Serbia
Except I have shown you data that shows that even in 14th century they had almost no presence in Kosovo.
No Dioclean source mention Albanians either, and we were supposed to live right next to them.
Sorry while you're right about some other things here you're totally wrong.
Albanians came to those regions you speak of after Ottoman conquest.
>>70972432
>Those are the four groups who were called Vlachs over a 1,000 period in Croatia.
and?I dont understand what is your point.You have to use contemporany written,archaelogical&linguistical facts to prove your point.
And dalmatians arent vlachs, as can be seen on their language.No relvance whatsoever to morlo-vlach,daco-vlach(romanian),istro-vlach,megleno-vlach,aromanians, krkovlach.
Dalmatian developed from the old latin dialect, veclisun/velisto.
>>70972482
t. Moshe Shekelsteinikis
>>70972558
I said SW Serbia, not Kosovo.
>Albanians came to those regions you speak of after Ottoman conquest.
They pushed east into Kosovo, Metohija, and directly south of Nis, yes.>>70972660
>>70972714
Kek at how communism rotted your Jewish brain.
>>70972424
>9th century
Albanians aren't mentioned in 9th century.
They are mentioned in 13th century, because that's when Albanian language is attested.
Albania is the name for that region. This is the most common mistake I saw when people discuss Balkans history, they use regional adjectives as if they mean ethnicity.
It's like calling people of Sofia ''Sofian'' and then someone 700 years later argues that Sofians were separate from Bulgarians.
Also, another funny thing with Albanians: not a single toponym in Kosovo has Albanian name. Albanians literally use Slavic names, only slightly modified.
>>70972660
You seem to not know anything about Croatian and Serbian history, particularly the ethnogensis of Croats and Serbs in places like Dalmatia.
Serbs of Dalmatia were known as Morlachs aka Maurovlachs.
Consult Alberto Fortis and his 18th century work 'Travels into Dalmatia" as the best known primary source on this.
You simply don't have enough knowledge to discuss this topic.
Do you even realize that Croatians from coastal Dalmatia and the islands refer to Croatians from the Dalmatian interior and Hercegovina as Vlachs/Vlaji?
