Right wing gun arguments debunked
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bm5sDfaqSU
>>70927439
>debunking human rights
fuck off
SHALL
>>70927439
What about left wing gun arguments?
>>70927640
NOT
>>70927822
KEKED LIKE CANADA
>>70927439
not an argument
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hyQDQPEsrs
>>70928140
Damn, guy. That was savage. I was trying to help you, freedom friend.
>>70927439
>he hates guns
Your best fellow countryman ever used guns to mow down 77 disgusting degenerates, why'd you be against that?
>People kill people, with cars
>People kill people, with knives
>People kill people, with hammers
>People kill people, with shovels
>People kill people, with their bare hands
>etc.
>>70927439
>Right wing argument
>>70927439
Meh, video sucked.
>>70927439
Left wing gun arguments debunked
guns don't kill people
bullets kill people
This video was painful to watch
>>70927439
>only country with this amount of frequency
Left wing gun arguments debunked again.
>Buckley
immediately discarded, and for the record:
>the united states is the only developed nation where [mass shooting] happens with this amount of frequency
The United States doesn't even top the list of mass shooting deaths per capita.
>mfw none of the three major gun laws did exactly nothing to reduce crime rates in glorious gun control UK
>mfw we never had any crime problems when 14 year olds could walk into a gun shop and buy whatever they wanted, no licence, no registration
>>70927439
Just finished the video. This guy completely fails to address the point that the countries he references have fractions of the population of the US. Not to mention that he cherry picked the friendliest country on the planet, and a xenophobic isolationist nation with a Neo-Confucianist ideology that since the dawn of guns thought they were "VERY DISHONORBARU." No shit neither of them have tons of guns.
>licenses stopped almost all car deaths because people were educated
>his proof is that less people die in car accidents now than in 1925
Man thank god my license sprung out of my steering wheel like some kind of bag of air! It's strange, but I also felt like it was holding me in somehow, like a belt, but for my seat!
>>70928446
I don't get this graph. Wouldn't a correlation of near 1 or -1 say more than one of 0?
>>70928656
But... the only argument against banning guns is "muh rights" :^)
HOL UP
>>70928735
Exactly, there is at worst no correlation and at best a slight negative correlation.
But there is definitely no positive correlation.
>>70927439
> piles and piles of Strawmen
> still ultimately fails to defeat his rickety creations despite numerous feeble attempts
> fucking canadians.
if canadians want my guns, come and take em.
ill be hosing maple syrup and guts off my driveway with a .357 strapped to my hip, singing America The Beautiful while my old lady grills me a burger.
Murica, Fuck Yeah!
>b-b-but japan!
Japan:
127 million jappos
0% niggers
0% beaners
US:
325 million people from all over the world
~13% nigger
~20% beaners
sounds like a good comparison model to me....
try comparing the US murder rate to brazil (47% white, 15% black the rest beaners) and we come off looking like champs
>>70928743
Jokes aside, the only reason FOR banning them is "muh feels." Regulation is fine, but outright removing them from responsible citizens is only going to cause trouble. The murder rates in the US are minuscule compared to the population. People get murdered in droves in multitudes of ways every day. Nobody would give a shit about gun politics anymore if every single murder was covered by the media.
>>70929416
>Regulation is fine
regulation is completely pointless when it comes to technology that can be made by any retard in their back garden
It's like trying to regulate the sale and trade of cakes.
>>70929648
Yeah, point well made.
Whenever the media talks about mass shootings it's always when some mentally ill white guy does it and they always love adding the mass shootings that happen in shithole ghettos to further their agenda against lawful gun owners.
>>70928651
>14 year olds could walk into a gun shop and buy whatever they wanted
Its funny, I remember reading a source someone posted on /k/ awhile back that there were several recorded instances of early 20th century London police who, upon encountering armed criminals who fired at them, asked passerby's for their carry pistols so that they could return fire.
Its amazing how quickly a culture can be pussified so quickly.
>>70928878
>>70927439
Another thing the video leaves out in its analysis of Japan is that by any standard definition it is a repressive police state.
Japanese police can arrest and search you at any time for any reason and can hold you for virtually any length of time they wish without trial or warrants. Japan police are also allowed to use torture; the Japan criminal justice system has a over 95% conviction rate, which is pretty much entirely confessions. Most "solved criminal cases" in Japan comes from locking up suspects and beating a confession out of them without any access to a lawyer or even a fair trial. They also are one of the few countries that still hang people.
So yes, gun control works for Japan. You just don't have any other rights, either.
>>70930128
What's worse is when they say "look, more guns = more GUN crime".
They never look at TOTAL crime, just crime committed with a gun.
I guess murder only matters when a gun is involved.
Then you get the idiots that think you can just run away or fight off someone with a knife. Unless you're at least 21ft away there's nothing you can do.
>>70928875
ahh I got it, now it makes sense to compare it with the alphabet haha thanks my nigga
>>70927439
Weapon licenses should be like driving licenses.
It is the best option desu.
>>70927439
Plenty of problems with the video, but it all comes down to how wrong he is about the second amendment.
>Assumes gun owners don’t know the 2A by heart, and just paraphrase it. Hilariously wrong.
>”Well regulated” doesn’t mean “regulated by the government.” It was an expression at the time of the Founding meaning “the property of something being in proper working order.” Basically, the militia should be GOOD with their arms, nothing more is meant here. (which, btw, doesn’t happen unless they keep and use them frequently)
>Grammatically, the right does not belong to the militia, nor is it contingent upon being IN a militia. Here’s an equivalent sentence: “A well-read collegiate, being necessary to the wisdom of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.” Would you have to be in university to read books, then?
>>70930626
>license
You shouldn't NEED a license to exercise your natural rights, Mikko.
>>70930728
Why not? Less nutjobs and retards with weapons.
>>70930349
But gun crime! Guns are scary!
>>70930728
This.
If you protest against having to show a voter I.D., you should protest against having to have a license
>>70930236
Yep, all it takes is one generation of propaganda and here we are.
>>70930626
You don't need a drivers licence to drive on your own private property m8.
It's also ridiculous because you can easily make both a gun and the ammunition in your back garden.
>>70930626
Fuck off, driving is a privilege, owning a weapon is a right
>>70930725
>Grammatically, the right does not belong to the militia
People who believe this argument are honestly retarded. There is literally no situation in which it could be construed that the right belongs to the militia. That is such an utter failure of comprehension that I am astounded it continues to surface. There are plenty of better (but still garbage) arguments against private gun ownership, but "it's the right of the militia!" doesn't get a passing grade.
Worse yet is that people think, for some reason, Madison would put forth an amendment that protects the rights of states to form small armies in a document that was crafted SPECIFICALLY to protect individual rights.
>>70930909
What is so hard about getting one little license? Are you too retard to pass a "i am not a retard" test?
>>70930836
The U.S. doesn't require licenses for firearms. Where do you think we score on the homicide list? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? Top 100?
No. 115th place, even though we have the most private firearms in the entire god damned world.
>>70931059
Do you own any guns?
>>70931111
Yes, I have couple of them.
>>70931204
I doubt that.
>>70927439
I'd respect Obama-loving anti-gunfags if only they had that ounce of honesty needed to admit that anti-gun laws are for state security. But instead they hop on their imaginary moral high ground and tell bold-faced lies about civility and how they just want to save lives. Why can't they acknowledge the futility of lies?
>>70931089
Oh great, you're better than shitholes like Afghanistan or Sierra Leone! You must be so fucking proud.
Tell me, where does the rest of the developed world lie on that list?
There is no argument.
You want to take my gun, come take it.
>>70931227
All you need to is some paper work, attend to a hunting class and talk with an officer and then you get your license, not so fucking hard. If you are not willing to do that then you don't even deserve to be a gun owner in my eyes.
>>70930909
Says who?
>>70931524
Considering the 'rest of the world' is getting directly flooded with 3rd world shitheels, it won't be long before they're at the same level as the 3rd world shitholes
Also
>aus
How did you get so cucked man? People died to keep their guns there, now the numale new generation is nothing but faggots
>>70931734
The United States Constitution.
It is a maker given right that in inalienable
>>70928735
A correlation of -1 or 1 means that if you give me one variable, I can tell you the value of the other. A correlation of 0 means that there is no such relation that I can rely on.
I'm sure you've heard that correlation does not equal causation. It is absolutely true. But there is a flip side: Causation does, in fact, imply correlation. If two variables are highly correlated, you cannot automatically infer that one causes the other, but if one variable does cause the other, you can infer that there will be a non-zero correlation.
A claim is made: Guns cause more homicides. A causality argument has been made, so we would expect a strong positive correlation to be evident. We can test that claim by looking at the correlation. If it is not there, we can say that causality is either so minimal that it is lost in the noise, or it is not there.
>>70931524
That was actually by an old metric of 12k murders per year. Now that we're down to about 8k gun homicides per year (2.46/100k) that puts us into the 150s.
Keep in mind, our most gun friendly states and those with the highest gun ownership actually have less gun homicide than Australia. Vermont, where anyone can legally carry a firearm as soon as they turn 21, with no permit or license, has .3 gun homicides per 100k.
>>70931678
>you don't even deserve to be a gun owner in my eyes.
Because your eyes don't value natural rights. You'd probably bend over and pop down to the local court for a free speech license, too.
>>70928656
Japan was producing and using guns at a higher rate than Europeans backs in Sengoku times. Fuck off with your samurai myths.
>>70931861
KEEP SCOOTIN' SVEN
>>70932041
>>70930600
thanks a lot for your efforts tho, obtain your (you)
>>70927439
I've seen this video before but I want to rage again.
>cars are human rights
Nope.
>the militia part of the Amendment
Na I'm done that's all I can take.
>>70931861
>How did you get so cucked man? People died to keep their guns there, now the numale new generation is nothing but faggots
Because we're not angsty manlets who feel their need to play rambo is more important that innocent people being killed?
>>70931970
How is the right to own a gun any different than the right to own a car?
>>70932341
>cars are human rights
>Nope.
Owning property isn't a human right?
>>70928764
Now show pistols ;-)
>>70931227
Finland is one of the top gun owners in Europe m8.
About 40 per 100 people.
>>70932147
>being this delusional
>>70932404
one is listed in the bill of rights.
now fuck off abo
>>70932458
Cars are not human rights. Stop shitposting.
>>70927439
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz5gja7XtYE
>>70930349
>"look, more guns = more GUN crime".
They don't realize there are 300+ million guns and by their logic there should be way more crime. Or they'll deflect and claim that it doesn't work that way because some people own a few hundred guns.
>>70932834
When was the last time someone was machine gunned down in the US?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12190120/Harlesden-shooting-man-killed-in-drive-by-machine-gun-attack.html
>>70932755
So then why are guns?
>>70932739
So you'd be cool if the government banned cars?
>>70927439
>Canada
>I can say what I want do what I want
>Free
the rest of this video is retarded, and much like a similar right wing pro gun video would be, is full of the same arguments same comparisons etc, that their side always uses in its position. The difference is, that the anti guns side is stupid, and always will be.
>>70932983
An even better question: When was the last time that someone was murdered with a LEGALLY OWNED machine gun in the US.
>>70933154
>So then why are guns?
Because I have the right to self protection. Not to go the store in a car instead of a bicycle.
>>70931861
>Considering the 'rest of the world' is getting directly flooded with 3rd world shitheels, it won't be long before they're at the same level as the 3rd world shitholes
People wonder why the US is getting shittier
>>70927439
I also just want to say
>gun control is not a slippery slope
HAHAHAHAHA
>>70932983
>>70933247
Surely the blacks have used their Mac-10s or Uzis, it's just no one will say they saw anything.
>>70933338
>Because I have the right to self protection
Even if you're shown to be mentally unfit and too irresponsible to own a lethal firearm?
>>70933513
>Even if you're shown to be mentally unfit and too irresponsible to own a lethal firearm?
As long as you can do that through due process.
>>70933735
Of course.
>>70931059
>no subject you are not barred the means of self preservation, you nearly have to pass this test... for a small fee of 500 dollars... every time you want to purchase a gun... the test is given between the hours of 10:30 and 11:30... on the second Tuesday of the month... every third month. You are still free just you know, with limitations.
NON FREE MEN GET OUT! SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
>>70933513
Who decides if in mentally unfit to own a firearms?
How do they enforce it?
Who pays for the process?
At what point does disagreeing with the government become too mentally unstable to own a gun?
Shit, I'm sure disagreeing with sjws today would be seen as too mentally unfit to own a firearm.
>>70927439
>implying you can debunk an opinion
>>70933374
It's true, gun control has never been a slippery slope.
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2010/tle558-20100221-07.html
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is clearly explained in Federalist Paper 46, by James Madison; And that purpose is for individuals to be capable of protecting themselves and to protect themselves and others from tyranny in government, being armed and knowing how to use a gun fits that purpose. I’m not sure why that’s so difficult to understand. Also, Jefferson and Madison may have wanted the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to be able to be altered, but for the benefit of the people, not to the benefit of the government. It doesn’t benefit us in any way, or help us further protect ourselves per the intent of the 2nd Amendment by allowing the government to cripple it’s intent.
The existing Bill of Rights was the only reason for accepting the Constitution with a stronger centralized government over the Articles of the Confederation. It’s clear and unambiguous if you read the very words of the men who wrote them. If you faggots don’t understand that, you are a threat to American rights and freedom.
>>70934565
how do they get away with this over and over and over again?
>>70934104
>Who decides if in mentally unfit to own a firearms?
The same group of people who decides who can drive a car?
>How do they enforce it?
But not giving guns to people who are unfit?
>Who pays for the process?
The government?
>At what point does disagreeing with the government become too mentally unstable to own a gun?
Literally never. I know many of you burgers have a persecution complex, but this evil socialist/liberal/communist/muslim/jewish boogeyman you think is infesting every echelon of your government *doesn't actually exist.* Point me to ONE example of someone having their constitutional rights denied based on political affiliation and I'll consider your point.
>>70927439
I like Buckley but he should really stick to laughing at pop stars. He's not very informed about politics.
>>70934672
By propaganda and doing it slowly.
>>70934676
>decides who can drive a car?
Only on public roads, you don't need a licence to own and drive a car on your own private property.
>Literally never.
In the UK disagreeing with the government is one of the checks on the potential terrorist list
What's to stop the person just getting a gun from the various gangs that have been making guns across Australia or even making their own?
>>70934676
>The same group of people who decides who can drive a car?
The DMV?
>But not giving guns to people who are unfit?
Who is they and why are they giving me a gun?
>The government?
Every single time I buy a gun I have to submit to whatever bullshit process they come up with, or do I go through it once and I'm good? Seems like a huge tax hole.
>Literally never. I know many of you burgers have a persecution complex, but this evil socialist/liberal/communist/muslim/jewish boogeyman you think is infesting every echelon of your government *doesn't actually exist.*
Keep telling yourself that.
Point me to ONE example of someone having their constitutional rights denied based on political affiliation and I'll consider your point.
My country was founded because the government shit all over the rights of the people.
>>70934676
>Point me to ONE example of someone having their constitutional rights denied based on political affiliation and I'll consider your point.
In 2013, the United States Internal Revenue Service (IRS) revealed that it had selected political groups applying for tax-exempt status for intensive scrutiny based on their names or political themes. This led to wide condemnation of the agency and triggered several investigations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy
>Pro gun people are fucking stupid and don't know what the 2nd amendment really means, it's not about protecting the right of the people
This idiot thinks he's educated about this subject and yet he hasn't even heard of DC v Heller.
>>70934676
>The same group of people who decides who can drive a car?
This has to be the least thought out argument I've ever read.
>>70933475
Yeah, but none of those would classify as legally owned.
>>70927439
I'm at 5:30. This is suuuuuuuch a shitty video. His arguments are so fucking bad. He even misquoted Tucker Carlson while having the actual quote showing in the video. Strawmen and completely retarded, easily debunkable nonsense galore. One of the worst videos I have ever seen. I reported him to Youtube
>>70935367
Remember the IRS hammering down on 501(c)(3) applications when the applicants were affiliated with the TEA Party?
>>70931227
>OSGTP posts on /pol/
>>70936121
>it's better to have a person be scarred for life instead of putting down whatever scum would rape that person
Fucking christ world
>>70935990
Yeah that was bullshit. I even watched the proceedings with /pol/. Of course nothing came of it. Watching Gowdy get Rowdy and Jordan going full Warden on those fags was hilarious though.
>>70927439
I tried to watch this video but I had to stop a minute in because I can't stand hearing the world's most smug, obnoxious bastard telling me how "mass shootings" are a real issue despite being a pitifully small number of mursers overall.
>>70928702
I chuckled more than I should have
>>70935784
The reason nobody uses full autos for crimes is full auto is really only good for squad tactics and wasting bullets.
Don't believe the movies. Full auto guns will easily cause you to waste all of your ammo without hitting a single target.
>>70927439
Watch and understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zE0K22zH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9lo0OxrXLo
>>70931734
America
Cunt
Why does OP hate this lady so much?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-6dWsQMkDE
>>70932380
I know your Australian but please refrain from shitting up this thread, this topic is actually important.
>>70928743
Rights > Feelings
But I know that concept is lost on you though, Mohammed.
>>70932739
What is the tenth amendment
>>70927822
INFRINGED
>>70937687
Viscerated by the federal government.
>people literally defending their lack of freedoms
>people literally arguing to take others freedoms away
Why?
What could you possibly gain from limiting your own rights?
>>70927439
a fucking leaf
>>70938093
They think they will gain security.
>>70937899
So it the second
Again what is the tenth amendment.
The BoR doesn't give us rights it recognizes rights that we already have and was written to stop the Federal government from fucking with them legally.
The right to own property and by extension cars is absolutely protected by the BoR under the 10th amendment and is a right in the philosophical sense as well.
>[current year]
>thinking the Constitution gives us rights
>>70938093
Where do you get a gun that fires the whole bullet ?
>A Dose of Fagley
Do people actually like this asshole?
I fucking hate him.
>>70928656
>This guy completely fails to address the point that the countries he references have fractions of the population of the US
The population of the US is five times larger than the UK but you are 200 tlmes more likely to be shot in the US.
>>70938527
The second still has some validity, as determined by stuff like DC v. Heller. The 10th amendment practically doesn't exist.
>>70938913
How more likely are you to be murdered?
>>70927439
Basically he's right. Though it's worth noting that if you remove just three cities from the equation (Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore) the U.S. gun violence stats get a lot less crazy (though still worse than the rest of the first world).
>>70927439
Holy shit he is so wrong.
I walked in to an outfitters store with $160 cash and walked out with a Mosin Nagant. All I did was show them my gun license, my name wasn't recorded. Based old dude behind the gun counter writes 'CASH SALE' on the bill of sale in the name space.
I've bought three guns this way, all with cash, no name given or recorded.
Buckley has NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT.
>>70938093
They think that by banning guns somehow bad violent criminals will turn in their weapons and stop committing violent crimes.
>>70939122
I'll check, give us a mo lad.
>>70938661
All guns fire the whole bullet :^)
In the mind of a liberal the whole thing is fired though.
They've most likely never shot a gun or even seen one in real life.
>>70938913
>shot
Yep, murders which involved a gun matter.
>>70928446
>>70928544
>>70928651
>>70928743
>>70936121
>>70936209
You're fucking idiots if you don't think that image is shopped.
>>70938913
And these are mostly black men killing each other, not normal US citizens.
>>70928283
Ignore him canabro
Higher murder rates are irrelevant, frankly. I just do not care. The federal government cannot be allowed to have an unchecked monopoly on force.
>You should just lick the boot anon, it'll crush you even if you all resist, ANON DAMMIT LICK THE BOOT LIKE THE REST OF US
No. Drones and tanks cannot conduct strip searches or stand sentry at a corner. A guerilla war could be fought successfully until enough military units defected to give us a chance. Not to mention stealing hardware and taking out infrastructure, which cripples the higher tech aspects of the war machine.
And so what, anyway? If this unlikely scenario did play out, more than a third of us own firearms, and most of that number own more than one meaning I could arm my hesitant neighbor if needed. That's a very costly war that uncle sam does not want. Hence it will probably never play out...but only because we are passively combating the monopoly on force.
If you want to live in some safe little government-heavy hugbox, move to a state that favors it. The rest of us will live here in Idaho, or Montana, or Wyoming or Texas. That's the nice thing about the United Sates: We don't all have to live under the same shitty ruleset. You can have your shitty rules governing your shitty life, and I can have my shitty rules to govern mine. Why are people so adamant that we all have to suffer equally here? That's what the EU is for.
>>70939380
>shot
Should have wrote shot to death.
>>70939296
2011 there were 653 murders in the UK
2013 there were 12,253 murders in the US
So 18 times more likely to be murdered in the US.
>>70940352
80% are gang related.
Are you a gang member?
>>70939127
Actually if you remove urban centers altogether, it drops even more. We have tremendous gun ownership in Idaho, and our gun violence is negligible.
Then again, we have basically no niggers, and the ones we do have (at least in my area) are actually tolerable people to be around and can communicate without either spraying you with saliva or waving their arms around in the air, unlike the more urban species.
>>70940352
If you're black and live in one of the many ghettos of America.
>>70940352
Why do you only care about gun deaths?
There's between NO correlation and a small negative correlation between the number of guns in a country and the homicide rate. See the graphs I posted.
>>70940352
>So 18 times more likely to be murdered in the US.
I'm not black. I have only ever heard one gunshot outside of a range or private property outside of city limits in my life.
>>70941105
What are you talking about, two data points is enough data to make a good argument for a correlation :^).
>>70941222
witnessed
>>70940352
But there were over 14000 people murdered in the US? And the UK statistics underreport murders if they can't find a culprit?
>>70928560
>1 shooting, 67 dead, 33 wounded
B-god skews the statistics
>>70940674
>Are you a gang member?
No, but where I live (Liverpool) there is a gang problem. They shoot each other quite a lot (usually in the bum with a sawn off). All the gangs where I live are white inbreds though.
>>70940982
>Why do you only care about gun deaths?
I thought we were dicussing guns.
>>70941671
discussing gun control
using gun deaths in an argument is ridiculous because they just become knife deaths when you ban guns (and the criminals still have access to them)
>>70940599
If this is true I am just amazed...
>>70942077
You shouldn't be.
Liberalism is a mental illness.
>>70942128
Liberals are usually good at politics if nothing else. Like, who the fuck thought that ad was a good idea? Who are these people?
>>70942214
They're gun grabbing liberals.
>>70941879
>discussing gun control
Ok, I think the gun laws in the UK are quite sensible as compared to the US.
The VCRA 2006 was a bit wierd though when a plastic realistic imitation firearm had to be painted pink or something came into effect but a replica air weapon didn't.
>>70942462
>Ok, I think the gun laws in the UK are quite sensible as compared to the US.
Why?
Why is it sensible?
What exactly has it achieved other than making it a pain in the ass for me to own my god damn shotgun?
>>70942283
to be fair, banning barrel shrouds and forward grips would make the handling of a non sbr compliant semi-auto rifle (16" barrel) near impossible unless you modified the lower receiver to have a handling point that wouldn't affect the mag.
>>70942283
>Fully semi automatic
What did he mean by this?
>>70943156
In partially semi automatic you only have to pull the bolt half the way back :^)
>>70943156
He's making fun of the traditional liberal ignorance about firearms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNjdlJxanmQ
>>70938661
It's called a cartridge, the projectile that gets fired out the barrel is what we call a bullet.
>>70943362
fuc/k/ off
>>70942713
The comparison to driving licenses was quite good. Most of the shotguns used in the shootings near me were stolen from farmers. It's about responsible gun ownership.
A mate had his gun license took off him when he was getting investigated over corgi gas certificate stuff.
>>70943483
>you should be punished for being robbed
>liberal logic
>>70943297
>no de leon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmFEv6BHM0
>conservatives will defend this
WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END
>>70943667
>you should be punished for being robbed
No, have your license took off you for keeping your shotgun by the side of the couch when you're at the pub.
>>70938661
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i-nMWgBUp0
>>70943483
No it isn't. You don't need a drivers licence to own a car or drive a car on your own land. You need a shotgun certificate AND a safe AND give yourself up to a police search in order to just buy a shotgun. It's nothing like a drivers licence.
If the shotguns were stolen from farmers, the stupid safe requirement obviously doesn't work - the regulation doesn't work.
Does making you have to add stupid weights on your handgun to make it longer stop people concealing them? - No because the criminal will just take them off.
Now answer me, what has the UK gun law achieved?
Has it lowered crime? - No
Has it lowered gun crime? - No
Has it stopped mass shootings? - No
What has it done? - Nothing.
Crime rates were LOWER when 14 year olds could go into a shop and buy whatever gun they wanted, no licence, no registration.
>>70943297
That first video forgets to point out that police officers used to use fucking revolvers. They now have shotguns, ARs, r700s, and semi-auto pistols with full capacity mags, whilst civilians are limited in certain states.
Second video is much worse.
Fucking uneducated swine.
It would make more sense if they just came out and said exactly what they are doing, which is disarming the population. There would be no wavering of support, because bootlicker morons would love it.
>>70943449
what? what's with the attitude I was just trying to educate you
If someone corrects me I thank them not cuss at them
>>70943870
>you should be punished for being robbed
>liberal logic
>>70944198
They're just trying to emulate the way it was one in the UK.
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2010/tle558-20100221-07.html
>>70938913
Once you control for the nigger population in the US, the US murder rate drops to 1.5 per 100,000 vs the UK's 1.0 per 100,000.
Anyways, Europeans like you will be begging for weapons within 10 years as your murder and crime rates skyrocket from all the immigrants you brought in. It won't be long before it's the UK that has a murder rate several times larger than that of the US.
>>70944243
>No, have your license took off you for keeping your shotgun by the side of the couch when you're at the pub.
And 16 year old billy numbnuts is babysitting your toddlers.
>>70944160
>Crime rates were LOWER when 14 year olds could go into a shop and buy whatever gun they wanted
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_policy_in_the_United_Kingdom#Pistols_Act_1903
>>70944752
This isn't even an issue if you take more than 2 countries as your dataset.
If you look at any group of country, all of them, OECD, EU, whatever group you see the same pattern.
>>70928446
>>70928743
>>70928544
>>70945046
Yes, I know when the laws changed.
See the official crime figures back to 1898
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/historical-crime-data
Then look up population data and compare rates.
>>70928764
Ban handguns but allow rifles? Sure. I'll take that.
>>70945392
a criminal will just saw the barrel off
end result is that criminals get a concealable gun and everyday joe doesn't
>>70944752
>Europeans like you will be begging for weapons within 10 years
I like guns and shooting. If in ten years time I NEED one I will get one.
>>70945506
> I NEED one I will get one.
No you won't since the firearms officers are slowly being replaced by no-guns people.
You've also completely failed to answer any of my questions.
>>70945313
>https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/historical-crime-data
Sorry tl;dr what's the gist of it you got.
I think the inner cities in 1898 were pretty violent though.
>>70938815
/pol/ loved this video, when its script were told by that burping 12-year-old girl http://youtu.be/pBusquWbo9I
>>70930845
....And just like people, the black colored ones are the most dangerous of all! :^)
>>70931861
KEEP SCOOTIN' SVEN
>>70945924
I don't care what you think.
This is a moving average (5 years in each direction) of the crime rates in the UK, that is absolute number of crimes divided by population (all relative to the rate at the year 2000)
>>70928651
pic related is the absolute rates, the statistical fluctuation makes it a little harder to determine any trends
They vertical lines show when the new gun laws were introduced.
Can you tell me that ANY of them made any appreciable difference to crime rates?
Also note how much all the other crimes have increased?
The only one who's definition has appreciably changed is "violent crime", the rest have been relatively unchanged.
They were nowhere near as violent as they are now.
Nowhere near it.
>>70946431
>>70945924
The moving average is here.
>>70928651
>>70945628
>Now answer me, what has the UK gun law achieved?
>Has it lowered crime? - No
>Has it lowered gun crime? - No
>Has it stopped mass shootings? - No
No it hasn't lowered gun crime but if there were no gun controls are you saying gun crime (by criminals) would not rise massively.
>>70946598
Gun crime would probably be up.
Homicide rate would be either unchanged or down.
Violent crime would very likely be down.
Burglaries and robberies would likely be down too.
Why does it matter what tool is used?
And don't give me any of this "I can just run away from someone with a knife" nonsense, you can't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KJ1R2PCMM
>>70946598
Government doesn't care, they're still adding more restrictions to firearms access.
Make sure to sign
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/127045
Come and take them you commie shit.
>>70946542
I agree crime is going up but it's not because of gun control or lack of. The colours on those charts are the same on my monitor so I can't read them properly.
>>70945046
>you should be punished for being robbed
>liberal logic
It truly is a mental illness.
>>70927439
He uses the "well regulated militia" argument even though the supreme court ruled that the 2nd DOES apply to an individual's right in the case DC v Heller. It's like he stopped researching after they find the part that they want
>>70947761
Is it weird that my dreams make more sense than reality?
>>70945392
The loony left spent the better part of a century trying to ban handguns here. It went nowhere because handguns are insanely popular.
They targeted "assault weapons" specifically because they weren't particularly popular at the time.
Now they're the most popular rifles in the country.
It's not happening.
>>70947967
>full capacity mag
hnggg
>>70927439
>"... but when we're talking about gun regulation, we're not talking about banning guns, yet."
>yet
exactly
>>70946844
I saw that video the other day.
>>70947761
If you keep your gun in a safe place away from children and are trained how to use it and it's legal in your state, sure have a gun. I'm not an anti gun nut.
>>70946942
>https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/127045
Will do.
>>70948398
>Behind the locked door of your house isn't considered a safe place in Britain
Whew lad.
>>70940352
>what is per capita
653 / 63,000,000 = 0.104 per 10,000
12,253 / 317,000,000 = 0.386 per 10,000
so adjusted for population, you are 3.7x more likely to be murdered in the US than the UK.
>>70948398
>If you keep your gun in a safe place away from children and are trained how to use it and it's legal in your state, sure have a gun. I'm not an anti gun nut.
Why, what will it achieve?
How are you going to enforce this?
>>70948678
What are the numbers by ethnicity/race?
>>70928233
Underrated post.
We go over this every day, try to take the guns and there will be a military led coup that removes the president in a day.
>>70944752
>Once you control for the nigger population in the US, the US murder rate drops to 1.5 per 100,000 vs the UK's 1.0 per 100,000.
And once you control for cunts the nigger correlation disappears.
>>70949183
It annoys me that prior to 1996, handguns were perfectly legal to own in the UK. One mass shooting by a deranged lunatic that shouldn't have had access to them in the first place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre
And we implemented a blanket ban. The only firearms the general public can own without a specialised profession (i.e. close-quarters security or bodyguard) are shotguns and rifles and even then you still need a licence that's renewed every two years.
Gun ownership isn't a right in the UK, but I see absolutely no reason why a deadly weapon can't be licenced in the same way as the other deadly weapon - cars and HGVs - are licenced.
>Break the law in a car in a serious manner? Banned from driving for years.
>Misuse or abuse of firearms? Banned from owning a firearm for years.
>>70948586
I know
>>70948678
Yes I am a retard.
>>70948737
What I'm trying to say is that I have no problem with people owning guns as long as they are responsible. In the UK I don't want to go to prison for 5 years because I just want a gun and can;t be arsed to get a license.
The day I think I NEED a gun I won't be acquiring a shotgun.
>>70927439
Mandatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGZd2WehxM
>>70929416
>only responsible citizens legally buy guns
i'm a gun owner and this is pure lmao. yes there are people who own guns and are responsible. there's also a lot of fucking idiots who buy guns and are completely irresponsible.
sadly there's zero mechanism to prevent fucking idiots from buying guns in this country.
>>70950246
All we can hope for is that they shoot themselves and not others.
>>70949858
Again, it's all good not wanting bad people to have guns but what is making new laws against it going to do?
You can't legislate the guns out of the hands of criminals, you just legislate them out of the hands of the honest citizen.
AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM. AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM, IT HAS A NIGGER PROBLEM.
>>70950246
The numbers don't seem to back up your claims.
>>70950610
I don't want any new laws. I think the law as it stands is ok.
I have been trained how to use automatic firearms and as a kid in the good old days loved my air rifles.
>>70927439
We have Gun Rights. It isnt some law that you can arbitrarily take away. It doesnt matter how 'reasonable' your argument is.
Take away the 2nd, and you pave the way for other amendments to be removed.
>you dont need to say hateful things
>why dont you want the police to search your house, you arent hiding anything are you?
"Not talking about banning guns... yet"
>>70951306
>I think the law as it stands is ok.
Why?
Why make people jump through hoops and pay the government to own a gun when there is exactly 0 evidence this achieves anything other than annoying honest people?
If I did the same with cars would you say it is okay as it stands?
You need to have a special locked garage for your car.
You've got to let a special auto-mobile officer come and inspect your garage and car whenever they want.
You've got to renew your drivers licence every 2 years.
You're only allowed a fixed amount of petrol.
You've got to add pipes on the sides of your car to make sure you can't squeeze into small parking spaces.
You've got to have a cap on how fast your car is physically able to do.
>>70945392
I won't take that. I carry a pistol around daily. In fact, I have one on my hip right now with two spare mags on the other side. It simply is part of my daily wear. If I'm putting pants on, I'm putting a pistol on.
>>70951691
Fewer guns => fewer gun crimes
>>70951715
>>70949754
You and I think alike, brother. Someone with a basic driver's licence which costs about £500 including tuition can drive a minibus with 16 people in it on a motorway at 70mph after being done for speeding 3 times.
Yet the police can arbitrarily deny anyone a rifle/shotgun certificate because of unspecified "reasons" whether or not they have committed any crimes or acted not in good character.
You can kill far more people on a motorway in less time than it takes to reload a revolver or shotgun.
>>70951715
So selling hand guns to ten year olds in Asda so they can plink at tin cans down the cut is ok?
There needs to be SOME regulation.
I understand that if you need a gun for your profession or sport it is a pain.
>>70952121
until it is fewer guns = fewer crimes, shit won't happen.
>>70952145
>Yet the police can arbitrarily deny anyone a rifle/shotgun certificate because of unspecified "reasons" whether or not they have committed any crimes or acted not in good character.
I didn't know that.
>>70952121
can't hear you over the sound of 12 year old aryan girls being gang raped by mudslimes
>>70952309
Yes it's ok you fucking nigger. How can retards on /pol/ fawn over the youth in Nazi Germany but if an American kid owns a pea shooter, they shit their pants
>Not even a minute in
>you're sick of hearing me talk about guns
>well I'm sick of talking about them!
LOL at this butthurt faggot.
I wish I could stop being pro-gun so I could become pro-gun just to spite his inflamed sphincter.
You sure convinced me with your passive aggressive argument style brah!
>>70952309
Kids used to bring their parents guns to school to go shooting after yet there were no school shootings.
I don't really care if you want to make the age limit 18 but the fact is that even a ten year old could get their hands on a gun, just like they can get alcohol, cigarettes and weed.
If they want to kill someone they'll just use a knife. Except a knife is silent whereas a gun makes a loud noise so everyone around will know someone's been shot.
>>70952406
Obviously legislation needs to do some work prior to that.
>>70952480
>can't hear you over the sound of 12 year old aryan girls being gang raped by mudslimes
Not an argument. Fewer guns result in fewer gun crimes. The point raised in my post still holds true.
>>70952121
Not according to the statistics.
We've been buying up guns by the tens of million and crime has been dropping for decades.
>>70952121
Fewer guns does nothing to TOTAL crime.
Fewer guns does nothing to TOTAL homicide.
What does it matter what tool is used, faggot.
>>70952480
>pea shooter
9mm has got to sting a bit more than a Daisey pump up.
>>70952463
Yes.
They've been replacing the firearms officers with no-guns people all over the UK too.
The police union also want to do random armed inspections of the homes of gun owners.
>>70952732
removing my rights because others cannot be trusted is not a valid answer. Just because you can own firearms does not mean you need to own firearms.
>>70927439
But this video has been debunked.
Just look up Buckley Debunked.
If you baby children their entire lives and never expose them to what the real world is like, or show them how to be strong against opposition they will grow up and be one of those faggots everyone on /pol/ hates. Shooting is an enriching and masculine experience that all men should try atleast once.
>>70952732
The point you raised is false. Stupid statements warrant stupid responses.
>>70952854
Just a little.
>>70952793
>TOTAL
I wasn't clear enough: Fewer guns => fewer gun related crimes.
>>70952784
Do you believe a no-gun-law wouldn't drop the current gun related crime rate even further?
>>70952898
Stop being egoistic. If fewer guns result in fewer deaths than your opinion is objectively less ethical.
>>70953016
So you also believe that a no-gun-law would do nothing about the gun-related crime rate?
>>70953211
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen
Eat shit
>>70953211
>Stop being egoistic. If fewer guns result in fewer deaths than your opinion is objectively less ethical.
It only results in fewer firearm deaths, you moron. Forcing someone to give up their guns at gunpoint is literal pottery.
molon labe
>>70928878
Font compare toBrazil dude, se can't have Guns here.... Except for criminals of course.
>>70953211
>Do you believe a no-gun-law wouldn't drop the current gun related crime rate even further?
Of course not. I'm not some mentally ill liberal.
There are half a billion unregistered guns in circulation in the US. What is preventing the law abiding from attaining one going to do to stop people who don't obey the law?
Again. We are buying guns by the tens of millions. Violent crime is nearing record lows. The murder rate is half of what it was twenty years ago.
You're trying to create a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. A sure sign of mental illness.
>>70952694
>Kids used to bring their parents guns to school to go shooting after yet there were no school shootings.
Cool. A .22 rim fire in the good old days is a bit different from an assault rifle in urban 2016. Both deadly though. Are you really saying we could/should remove all legislation?
>>70953645
>Cool. A .22 rim fire in the good old days is a bit different from an assault rifle in urban 2016.
hahahahahahahaha
Here in california, .223/5.56 are heavily restricted. Either you remove all pistol grips and other features, or you use a bullet button. .22s aren't forced to comply. So stupidity has won out over here as well. And despite the idiotic notions of a lot of gun-grabbers, full autos are legal in the USA. Just make sure it is pre-1985 and you pay for a tax stamp.
Gun laws are literally trash made up by idiots who watch fucking action movies and freak out.
>>70953430
>It only results in fewer firearm deaths
This is obviously a better result compared to high firearm deaths.
>>70953335
This is the only argument I cannot refute. I would advice you to move into a better neighborhood.
>>70953632
You are using the same strawman again. Gun related crime rate might be decreasing, but it would be lower with no guns at all. Talking about illegal gun regulation is illogical. It is by definition impossible to do so. We have illegal weapons so does japan, but we still have very low gun related crime rates.
>>70927439
>he compares the us with canada
>"we touch the border of the united states, we're practically the same country!"
>doesn't compare the us with the other country it shares borders with and has strict law gun control
top lel
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_23302846/mexican-farmers-standing-up-drug-cartels-refuse-disarm
>>70953645
You're British so I don't expect you to know any better but a modern day sporting rifle and an assault rifle are very different.
Sporting rifles are semi-automatic firing or use bolt actions. You can get them in all calibres but .22 is probably the most popular still.
An assault rifle is what you see in the military, they can differentiate between fully-automatic and semi-automatic firing.
I am an American, so in the US it is illegal to own any assault rifle that was manufactured after 1986. All (legally obtained) automatic weapons are registered. Trying to buy an automatic rifle in the US is very costly, and therefore impractical for many. Very few own assault rifles and if they do, they're usually older men who have lots of money to spend.
>>70954171
What makes murders with guns worse than murder with another tool?
>>70953211
I don't really care about gun-related crime, I care about total crime rates.
Also, look at one of the graphs I posted above.
None of the UK gun laws have decreased crime rates.
Not only that but there is more GUN crime now than there was when there was no licensing or registration required to buy a gun.
>>70953645
>Are you really saying we could/should remove all legislation?
yes, maybe keep 18+ for sales but that's it
legislation does nothing other than play to your feels
>>70932380
>Because we're not angsty manlets who feel their need to play rambo
No, you're children who need mommy and daddy government to tell you what rights you should and shouldn't have.
> is more important that innocent people being killed?
Total violent crime was on a global decline since 1969- various factors came into play
>Policing practices
>Tough sentencing
>Contraception
>Normalization of abortion
>Removal of lead paint and fuel additives
That includes violent crime committed with firearms.
By the time gun control was fully enacted in Australia
>Total violent crime and total gun crime was already on a decline
>"Mass shootings" were highly anomalous incidents
>Semi automatic rifles provided for an infinitesimal amount of deaths
>Most violent crime- gun crime and otherwise- was centered around gang culture
>Gangs did not care with which weapon they committed their crimes
I don't remember the exact figures, but when you look up global violent crime charts (I think it was OCED who conducted the study) all the expected decrease in total violent crime by attempting to decrease gun crime was very simply picked up by other weapons.
Say if there were 100 murders, 50% of murders were committed with guns, the next year there were still 100 murders, and that 50% was picked up by fists, blunt objects and knives.
>>70954171
>This is obviously a better result compared to high firearm deaths.
no change in net deaths, just a difference in method.
>>70954551
+more violent crime since there's less danger of repercussions when attacking an unarmed person
>>70954270
I referred to an asault rifle because some other bong seems to want to legalize all weapons.
I am British but did have the pleasure of shooting a Sterling sub machine gun and an l1a1 SLR many years ago.
>>70954171
>Gun related crime rate might be decreasing, but it would be lower with no guns at all.
Fallacious:
>1.
a)Total violent crime(assaults, murders, manslaughters)
b)Criminal deaths (murders and manslaughters)
c)Total violent crime solely committed with firearms
d)Criminal deaths (murders and manslaughters) sole committed with firearms
have all been steadily decreasing since the 70s, due to social, biological, and demographic shifts. When the gun bans occurred, the decrease in any of the preceding metrics were pinned on the wrong factor.
>2.
After the Gun bans in the UK and Aus occurred, the total violent crime remained the same or followed the overall 30 year downward trend. The violent crime and criminal deaths that did occur were simply conducted with other weapons.
>>70954744
We'll move on to that next. Like a slow march uphill, we move to educate the idiots of the world, one dumbfuck at a time.
>>70954171
Your assertion was fewer guns, less gun crime.
The opposite is the reality of the situation.
Choosing to ignore reality in favor of fairy tales is a sure sign of mental illness.
Time for you to go home.
>>70954452
>>70954551
I would argue that your survival rate tends to be higher with weapons other than guns.
Well I am arguing for gun-related crime rates, not how to decrease the total crime rate. Total crime rate is probably fixable through the increase of the populations intelligence.
>>70954952
>The opposite is the reality of the situation.
No
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
I am not ignoring reality. But you are attacking me personally, which devalues your personality in this thread.
>>70955035
>I would argue that your survival rate tends to be higher with weapons other than guns.
Not really, you're guaranteed to be stabbed at anything less than 21ft whilst you're more likely to be missed when being shot for most distances.
eg.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/weekinreview/09baker.html?_r=0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KJ1R2PCMM
>>70955272
We have a clear case where the number of guns is increasing and that gun crime is decreasing.
What part of this are you having difficulty understanding?
>>70955035
have you never heard the old saying that no one wins a knife fight? Guns equalize the world. Strong, weak, cripple, gay, furry. Anyone with a functioning eye and hand can use one to protect themselves, or to do wrong and commit a crime. I am 6'4 and weigh 265 lbs. I would be fine if no one had guns. But the reality is that fucking violent criminals will still have theirs, because this is a political move to usurp the power of the people, forcing the citizens to become wholly reliant upon the government. More gun crime = more funding for law enforcement, so they will never prevent gun crimes, just report, arrest, rinse and repeat to instill fear, and milk more money out of the taxpayers. You willingly submit yourself to this racket. I begrudgingly am forced, by you and your ilk, to participate in this phony war on danger. You are an idiot.
>>70955272
Your link isn't proving your point.
Venezuela has 39.00 gun-homicide rate
USA has 3.
>>70927439
if libtards were serious about a valid way to decrease gun homicides, they would kick all the niggers out. 80% of gun homicides are gang related.
They don't really give a fuck about preventing murders. They just don't want people to have guns because that gives people power.
>>70927581
>he thinks human rights are real
>>70954452
>yes, maybe keep 18+ for sales but that's it
>legislation does nothing other than play to your feels
So some legislation then. It'll never happen though.
I'm just happy to know that if the day comes and I do need to pull the trigger I'm a pretty good shot. The dickheads around here couldn't hit a barn door.
Well I'm off to get pissed. Day off. Later lad.
>>70955537
People in Venezuela are armed to the teeth.
>>70955841
They're still far below the US, the US has more guns than people.
>>70955272
Respond to my points.
Your argument is that the Western world (EU, USA) should ban firearms because of murder rate.
My argument is that murder rate- by any weapon - is demographically based.
Vermont has the murder rate of Switzerland.
>Lax gun laws, high amount of White people
Connecticut has a murder rate akin to Sweden
>Strict gun laws, high amount of white people
Memphis has a murder rate that belongs in Africa
>Lax gun laws, high amount of blacks
Detroit has a murder rate that belongs in Africa
>Strict gun laws, high amount of blacks.
>>70955325
There are more obstacles which cannot be penetrated with a knife while firearms can. You can hide behind doors more efficiently against a knife vs a gun.
>>70955537
Both have a >10% firearm ownership.
>>70955490
No there is no clear sign of either case, but most countries with very low gun-related gun crimes have no guns.
>>70956000
>is demographically based
Yes I agree. The fundamental cause of crime is a high pop of low intelligent people (Ignoring mental disorders)
>>70956086
>No there is no clear sign of either case
Then given the case of a nation where gun ownership is increasing while crime is dropping, there is no need to reduce the number of guns in circulation.
Thank you for the lovely debate. You can bow out gracefully, now.
>>70955640
Right to bear arms is the ONLY right.
All other rights stem from that one.
Feel free to try and take them. I'll start by giving you my bullets at roughly 2500FPS.
>>70955841
But they've got tight gun control :^)
They're also nowhere near the US.
They've got 10.6 guns per 100 people, compared with 45.7 per 100 in Finland, 6.7 in the UK and 112.6 in the US.
>>70955793
Have a good time.
>>70956086
>There are more obstacles which cannot be penetrated with a knife while firearms can.
Unless the person is more than 21ft away from you, YOU DONT HAVE TIME TO REACT.
Don't give me this "I'll pick up something and fight them off" nonsense.
>Both have a >10% firearm ownership.
So does Germany.
>low intelligent people
Are people more or less intelligent than they were 100 years ago?
>>70928446
That's quite a data spread Brit friend, I'd hesitate to use that against smarter people.
Both have dumb arguements. Evedence shows that legal guns have zero effect on homicides or defence. Just keep them legal because they're nice tools.
>>70956550
Tell me then, what is wrong with it?
>>70956489
Guns are used on long range(relatively) compared to handheld weapons like knives. Of course people are still getting killed by it, but people will have a higher survival rate.
If you read my post you would know that I am talking about defensive escape and defending yourself by attacking the offender is obviously nuts. Especially if the criminal is in possession of any weapon.
>>70955973
>They're still far below the US
This does not appear to be the case. The carrying of loaded handguns is apparently routine in Venezuela.
>>70956489
>They've got 10.6 guns per 100 people
Do you know anything about Venezuela?
>>70954348
Um, um um
>small penis
>manlet
>rambo larper
>white terrorist
>sisterfucker
>trailer trash
>>70953211
>>70956942
>but people will have a higher survival rate.
Not according to the statistics.
>>70956489
>So does Germany.
Germany do not have guns like the us. We only have firearms for sport hunting. If you run outside with a gun you will be arrested. This effectively nullifies your argument.
>>70956489
Intelligence has a very high correlation to financial success, and both in turn decrease your criminality.
>>70956942
You've got almost 0 chance of being hit by a bullet at that distance.
Even trained police aren't that good at hitting a moving target from more than 21 feet.
Most gun crime also does not happen at that range.
Regardless of whatever you think about how likely you are to die from different weapons, the fact stands that homicide rates are independent of gun ownership rates.
>>70956306
So why disenfranchise everyone- intelligent, educated, white/asian, for what are disproportionately the actions of 13% of the population?
>>70957387
Gun ownership =/= gun ownership.
Owning a gun in europe is different to owning a gun in america. You can have a high gun ownership rate in a european country and still have tiny homicide because you cannot legally run outside with your firearm.
>>70957113
Yes I'm sure you know more about gun rates than companies who's sole purpose is working out how many guns are in a country.
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/publications/by-type/yearbook.html
>>70957347
>Germany do not have guns like the us. We only have firearms for sport hunting. If you run outside with a gun you will be arrested. This effectively nullifies your argument.
Germany has about 12 guns per 100 people. It does nothing to my argument, your claim was "Fewer guns => fewer gun crimes"
Your argument for this was to link to a list of countries and their gun-crime rates with no mention of the number of guns in each country.
>Intelligence has a very high correlation to financial success, and both in turn decrease your criminality.
That's not what I asked.
>>70957682
This includes illegal ownership.
Are you pretending that a criminal who wants to kill someone is going to kill someone but won't break the law by taking their gun outside?
Stop assuming criminals obey the law.
>>70956489
>Unless the person is more than 21ft away from you, YOU DONT HAVE TIME TO REACT.
I'm glad someone else has heard of the 21 foot rule.
If there is a threat to your life, you use a force multiplier to neutralize it FULLY and ASAP.
I remember Piers Morgan talking about someone who was threatened with a blunt object, and he effectively said
>Well it was just a bat, and I would rather stay in the hospital from a baseball bat injury than take someone's life
It was a crowbar.
Morgan implied that we should stand there in the middle of an assault in the dark and ask
>Oh, excuse me kind hooligan, but may you halt this engagement so I can properly assess what weapon it is you are attempting to strike me with
>Aha! A bat! Carry on then, hip-ho. I have estimated that it will most likely not take my life, but instead place me in the hospital for at least a month with brain damage.
>Oh dear, on closer inspection it seems to be a lead pipe. I ask you to cease this action, as it would surely be a risk to my life
>>70957718
You are playing with semantics. I am most certain you knew there is a difference in gun ownership here vs that of america.
>>70957827
I am not trying to stop illegal ownership. I never did. Illegal possession with the intend to kill is not preventable. For this you would need to address other areas.
shit thread
>>70958055
>I am not trying to stop illegal ownership.
It's nice that you admit that you're only interested in disarming the law abiding.
>>70957718
>Your argument for this was to link to a list of countries and their gun crime rates with no mention of the number of guns in each country.
And furthermore, no mention of the gun laws in each country.
Mexico has strict gun laws but relatively high gun crime and violent crime in general.
This is because the law abiders don't bother owning them, and the criminals don't bother following the law.
That is not translatable to Switzerland or the US' case.
>>70957682see>>70957827
There are different dynamics at play. When you criminalize something, you disenfranchise the legal holders of that thing and enfranchise the black market participants of the thing.
That's like doing a study in the 1920s about liquor-related crime and crime while drunk and pointing to the US
>Look! A lot of liquor! A lot of crime! Case closed
Without realizing that liquor was prohibited during the period of the highest liquor related crime. The prohibition is a significant factor of the study.
>>70930626
>firearm owners identification card
>required in most states to buy and own a gun
>>70957858
kek
I'm tired of people thinking you can just run away from someone with a knife or disarm them.
Although once you say you don't have time to react at 21 feet they'll act as if you can detect someone who's going to try and attack you with a knife when they're at the opposite end of a street from you.
>>70958055
>You are playing with semantics. I am most certain you knew there is a difference in gun ownership here vs that of america.
No, you're making one of two assumptions;
1. that people who own a gun that want to kill someone are going to obey all the laws except for the murder.
2. that people that want to kill someone with a gun can't get one illegally
It doesn't matter what honest people owning guns do with their guns.
>For this you would need to address other areas.
Impossible, you can make them in your back garden, including the bullets.
You may as well try to ban the trade of banana bread.
>>70958257
No. I am interested in people being and staying alive.
>>70958268
>>70958478
>playing the illegal strawman again
I made it more than clear that I am not arguing to solve the illegal possession of firearms. This is impossible. But the regulation in europe clearly has a huge effect at diminishing gun-related crime.
>>70958726
>No. I am interested in people being and staying alive.
Obviously not since you're trying to leave them defenseless.
>>70958789
You don't need to defend yourself if you don't encounter a crime.
>>70959040
That's the most idiotic thing you've posted yet.
Criminals don't need to be armed to commit crimes.
>>70959172
I was referring to the decrease gun-related homicides in europe. Again, if no crime happens then you don't have to defend yourself with a gun.
>>70959312
>if no crime happens
But crime does happen. Crime will always happen.
Crime is rampant in Europe.
You really should consider treatment.
>>70958726
>But the regulation in europe clearly has a huge effect at diminishing gun-related crime.
>diminishing
There never WAS any large gun-related crime.
You can't diminish something that wasn't there.
>>70959040
Do you believe that you can legislate something that is easily made, easily smuggled and easily accessed, even in the UK, out of existence?
Guns aren't going away.
You're just scared of guns because you've never seen one outside of a film.
>>70959312
See >>70928743
>>70959416
I agree with this guy. You seem to believe you can legislate crime away.
>>70958726
>Firearms already in existence
>Classify the firearms already in existence as illegal
>Definitionally more illegal firearms holders and illegal firearms
>Prohibition works so well for Drugs and alcohol
>What are black markets
>What are the same violent crime rates or violent crime trend lines in US states and cities and nations like UK and AUS once stricter gun control was enacted
From a policy POV, what you are proposing is illogical.
Not a strawman. You want to criminalize firearms and firearms owners- thereby creating a class of illegal firearms and firearms ownership- THEN claim you want to do nothing to stop illegal firearms or firearms ownership.
Why more gun control in Europe, which has strict gun control already? Why not fixed your failed immigration policy?
>>70959040
Shit. You're an elaborate troll.
Well done m8. I can't believe I spend so much time responding to you.
Go home everyone.
>>70930626
Those are for driving on public roads, not for owning a car
>>70959460
>>70959579
>Do you believe that you can legislate something that is easily made, easily smuggled and easily accessed
How come you still argue for illegal guns? You guys seem to argue that 3 homicides per 100k is better than 0.17.
I am not sure how you can support such an obvious immoral opinion. low death rate > high death rate.
>>70958307
>Most states
No even close, there are like 5 cuck states like that.
>>70959579
>german
>troll
one or a half dozen :^)
>>70959520
You are completely misunderstanding my point. I want the world to adapt to european standards. I do not want to regulate european gun laws further.
What my point on illegal ownership is that you cannot defeat it completely. Of course I am for investigations so the state can raid people who illegally possess them. But I am not naive to think that any method will be able to resolve illegal guns completely.
>>70960322
> I want the world to adapt to european standards.
Why?
>>70960322
>live on a continent with massive jewel heists and terror attacks committed with actual machine guns
>vs a country where gang bangers kill each other in the ghetto occasionally
No thanks.
We're good, really.
>>70960023
>How come you still argue for illegal guns? You guys seem to argue that 3 homicides per 100k is better than 0.17.
1. It is your position that you want to make
a. More guns illegal
b. More gunowners face legal action
2. If a law is enacted against X, it effectively makes
a. All owners of X criminals, and criminals don't bother with the law anyway
b. All non-criminals no longer owners of X
Logically following, only criminals become users and owners of X. That's why even though there are a lot of guns in Mexico, its mostly criminals using them, since guns are largely decriminalized.
That's why even though there are a lot of guns in the US, they are by and large used for hunting, recreational, training, occupational or defensive purposes.
>I am not sure how you can support such an obvious immoral opinion. low death rate > high death rate.
Respond to >>70957294
Your argument is that :
>Taking action X leads to a lower death rate
(which is untrue, but humoring the argument:)
>Taking action X leads to a lower death rate, therefore we should take action X
Logically following:
>We should take any and all actions that lead to a lower death rate
Therefore:
>We should remove innocent-before-proven-guilty status, private car ownership, private swimming pools, fatty foods, soft drinks, tobbacco, alcohol, and people doing their own roofing, and enforce this removal by the State.
>>70960322
>I want the world to adapt to european standards
Yet Vermont doesn't adopt European gun standards, and has a European gun crime rate.
It's almost as if other factors are at play.
>>70960540
We have less gun related gun rates and I believe its mostly due to our regulations.
>>70960576
I don't understand how you can support a immoral opinion. We have less gun related crimes => less death. You literally support death.
>>70960633
Your post and that of anon is a red herring so I won't respond because I clarified those in my posts before.
>>70960749
You are comparing gun ownership in the us with europe which I already explained is different.
>>70960923
Some people deserve to die.
Just not the people you're trying to leave defenseless.
>>70960923
Why do you only care about gun-related crime?
Why not the massive amounts of knife crime and other violent crime?
In the UK all that happened is that we got massive knife crime and violent crime since there's 0 risk in attacking someone now.
