Exactly how retarded is this quote?
>>70890887
can someone explain why making college free wont work? i need facts, not memes please
We need a larger tax base in order to have free college once again. Borrowing Money to pay for it is destined to fail.
>>70890994
It'll work but the question is where does the money come from? I don't want to pay for little nigress to go to college if she can't pay for it. Taxes will go up and that's bullshit. His current tax plan will NOT suffice to make college free for everyone because you have SO many teachers to pay for right now... What happens if EVERYONE can go? Fucking absurd.
>>70890994
When someone says they want college to be free, what they actually mean is, "I want to be able to have my checkout clerk help me solve 22 across on the Sunday New York Times crossword."
>>70891320
>What happens if EVERYONE can go? Fucking absurd.
Then oh my god our country might be more educated.
>>70890994
the way your question is phrased makes me want to kill myself.
To say the word "work" in an economic sense makes little sense, because economics is about choosing between different sets of policy which create different trade-offs.
Of course you could make college "free" by taxing everyone, but what proof do YOU have that this would benefit society enough to make up for this taxation. The null hypothesis is not that free college will better society. If you want to make that case then go ahead, but do not expect someone to counter a positive argument when that argument has no evidence for its truth.
>>70891409
They wouldn't be, because standards would have to lower to accommodate the influx of people. It has already happened. Colleges and Universities went from being prestigious to being daycare complete with safe spaces and white privilege classes.
>>70891320
>I want taxes to only be spent on me me meee
grow up my man, a country is a team that helps each other not your personal bank account
>>70891409
>going to college makes you educated
>>70891409
Educated in how to be a liberal cuck
>>70891409
Then oh my god we'd all be do poor we'd bet be living like fucking hoover towns.
You can't just ignore the money aspect of it like it doesn't matter
>>70890994
When you make college free you lower the quality of education. Free college means that people don't have to invest in getting into college. America has the best quality universities specifically because it takes a significant amount of investment to get into them. European colleges are essentially free, but a European bachelors ain't worth shit compared to an American degree. Also when you make college free you put an enormous cost on the government which then puts an enormous cost on the population. By subsidizing college tuition you are letting colleges charge outrages prices. Also more people that go to college the less that degree is worth.
>>70890887
>throwing money at College when the internet exists
lad status: wew
what if the government made computers free 50 years ago?
What would happen to computer development?
>>70891514
That has nothing to do with the amount of people entering college. Think about what you just said: it's already happened, the standards have already fallen. Well...what does that have to do with free tuition if we don't have free tuition?
The truth is not all doom and gloom. Look at Missouri. Their application rates have bombed. They have to start closing down because nobody wants to go there. People in great numbers do not buy into the race-baiting social justice bullshit. They want decent jobs.
>>70891623
>Then oh my god we'd all be do poor
You could use some education.
>>70891643
>America has the best quality universities specifically because it takes a significant amount of investment to get into them.
False. We have some of the top universities. That doesn't mean we have quality universities as a whole. People make the same claims about healthcare: yes, we have the best institutions, but overall it's nothing special compared to other countries who see much larger returns on their investments.
>>70890887
>If college could be JEW-FREE 50 years ago...
>>70890994
>free
Does anyone think that from when the cars in the 1950 houses are cheaper, so why didn't they equal with today?
>>70891693
What would happen to computer development if the government never placed tax dollars into developing computer technology and the internet?
>>70891544
... K. But my bank account is mine. I don't earn my money for you, I earn it for me. You aren't going to college on my dime you poor fuck.
>>70890994
If college is free, then there's a really fucking hard admissions test and if you fail it you're fucked. Ask the UK.
Whatever happens, more people in the US need to go to trade school and we need fewer fluff degrees like Women's Studies and etc. STEM 4 life.
This should be done at the state level, since virtually all public colleges/universities are associated with state governments rather than the federal government, IIRC.
Even here our provincial governments are the ones with power over tuition rates (e.g. Quebec students protested the provincial government over tuition hikes).
Considering America is a corrupt third-world country, I know some states would take advantage of Bernie's plan and embezzle the flow of federal cash.
>>70890994
Most people that can go to college without fucking around and flunking get scholarships and grants. Our culture makes it seem like people have to go to college when there's a bunch of other ways to make a living. Have you ever gone to public school? It's fucking awful compared to private school. Imagine if colleges became public, the standards would plummet and tax money will be wasted. Community college isn't even that difficult to afford. Useless fucks should have no place in our society.
>>70890994
>people with degrees can't get jobs
>the answer is let more people get degrees by making them free
>>70890887
if blacks didn't have equal rights 50 years ago i don't know why the hell they should today
>>70892102
Name 3 ways you contributed to your country other than taxes in the last year
>>70892102
You definitely don't pay taxes if you don't realize that the government gets them before you deposit your pay check.
>>70892202
>Most people that can go to college without fucking around and flunking get scholarships and grants.
This is the same logic as tipping. It's a backwards system that's overly complicated for no reason other than it makes a small group of people a lot of money.
>>70892237
>only give rich people degrees
or
>give more people degrees and allow the best workers to automatically rise to the top from the competition that is created
its like you dont understand capitalism
>>70890994
Think about it like this: You know how worthless a highschool degree is? a college degree would be worth the same if everyone could get their hands on it. not to mention the hippies that just go to college to party
>>70891884
>We have some of the top universities. That doesn't mean we have quality universities as a whole
>>70890994
>Make student loan payment for 10 years.
>Pay extra taxes for your entire working life to cover "free" tuition.
Pick one.
>>70892277
Oh, I know. And I don't want higher taxes is what I'm saying. Herp derp. I'm a software developer, I know all about the stupidly high taxes.
>>70892272
You fuckwit, no one contributes more than taxes unless you're basically in the military.
>>70892437
Do you really need the concept of averages explained to you?
>>70892437
Yes, having a handful of prestigious universities you can buy your way into doesn't mean that all your universities are good.
Just like most of your healthcare is terribly overpriced and inefficient, but people don't care because dictators can fly over and get top-care treatment for millions of dollars.
>>70892474
So then you expect just to live in your country as a free ride? Have the country give everything to you and yet give nothing back?
>>70892339
>no reason other than it makes a small group of people a lot of money.
what do you think is going to happen once university boards become government contractors and begin raking in that sweet guaranteed cash
they will be more than happy to take $100,000,000,000
>>70890887
Not very retarded at all. Actually it's quite doable
All you'll have to do is
>shrink colleges to it's size 50 yrs ago (including amount of students, faculty, salary, buildings, and assets)
>get rid of dorms, eliminating the chance that students not near you can attend
>get rid of sports programs that attract attention, students (and their money) and fame to your school
>cut the curriculum to programs that don't require expensive and complex tech to teach
>remove the flexibility of evening, night and weekend classes in order to cut utilities usage
>be prepared to hand out worthless degrees because the pool of "AAS" and "BAs" just got expanded to cover every single teen in America
see? pretty simple once you give it some thought OP
#FEELDABERN
>>70892352
Hat let me give you an economics lesson on why US Tuition rates are so high.
>pretext for going to be like 6 or 7 posts, and if you want a tl:dr stop being an uneducated panzy and learn the full girth of an argument instead of snippet half truths
>>70892608
Oh I'm perfectly fine with paying things that the country needs. EG roads, public facilities, etc... But college? Healthcare? Fuck that. If people cannot afford those then they don't deserve them. That's not something that THE COUNTRY should provide. If you are smart enough to graduate college then you'll easily get a scholarship or internship or even work before college to afford it. And after college you'll easily get healthcare.
Fuck off you leaf.
>>70892339
>makes a small group of people a lot of money
It's basically free money given that you fulfill some standard. It's seriously not that hard to get scholarships either, why would you invest in people that are too incompetent to do basically things to get free money? It's infantilism.
In a nutshell he wants to turn College into public school
>>70892744
Recently, research has counterintuitively indicated a need to scale back the financial aid we offer prospective students since such policies have thus far made higher education LESS affordable. [1]
In response, there has been one main criticism to that research: "How in the world could increased college assistance have come BEFORE increased tuition costs?" "Go ahead," exclaim the skeptics, "look at the historic record. Tuition increases came first! They were not CAUSED by expansions in financial aid!"
We decided to fact check this critique by doing precisely what was asked; looking at the historic record.
[The following dollar figures have all been adjusted for inflation.] From 1971 to 1981, annual tuition and fees for higher education only rose $2 for a public two year facility. [2] You read that correctly. ONLY two dollars. For a public, four year state school, in state tuition and fees had actually DECREASED $190. For the same period of time, a private four year institution, ALSO decreased by $304. [2] This is very important to note. It means that the cost of higher education was NOT rising at an alarming rate at this point in history. Rather, it had actually decreased or, at most, broken even. (depending on the circumstance) Since that time, however, tuition unfortunately inclined sharply.
So then, what is the record on financial aid for higher education? Unlike the claims from the critics, expansions in financial aid programs DID come BEFORE the start of the tuition crisis. Federal financial aid had its start in 1958, with the National Defense Student Loan Program for low-income students, the precursor to the Perkins Loan Program, and soon after with the Health Professions Educational Assistance Act of 1963 [a]. Note, however, these were relatively small programs and therefore didn't necessarily distort the market in any impactful way. They truly were helping low income individuals, and thus were not wide-scale programs.
>part II soon
>>70891736
Standards fell because of affirmative action. They'll probably not fall further because of free college, but tax burden will increase significantly and college degree becomes even less worthwhile.
In essence making the college degree into wasted 4 years of your life or however long it takes you to obtain one. 4 years you could have been working and actually making money.
>>70892798
Why not just pay the waitress 10% more instead of tipping her that? In the end, it's just a way to shift financial burden on the average citizen anyway so we might as well cut out the middle man and actually get a good return for our money.
We spend more than other countries and get a worse product as a result. We are losing.
>>70892836
It wasn't until later, in 1965, 1972, and 1978, when the financial aid that we recognize today began to take hold. In 1965, for instance, the precursors to the Pell Grant and Stafford Loans were created as part of the "Higher Education Act. [3] At that time, a key change occurred in the way federal tuition loan programs were financed. "Instead of using government money directly, the loans would be made by bankers. But if students defaulted, the government guaranteed that IT would cover the tab." [4] Think about this perverse incentive for a moment. It meant that capital could be offered in the form of student loans under the presumption that profit from said loans could be kept privately, but if and when losses arose, banks and investors wouldn't have to lose their money since TAXPAYERS would foot the bill. Effectively, this was socializing losses while privatizing gains. It would take years for this perverse incentive to grow into a large scale problem, but it eventually did.
>Part III soon
>>70892972
In '72, the precursor to the Pell Grant was created, but more importantly, Sallie Mae was created by Nixon and the Congress. Sallie Mae was a firm that received help from the treasury to buy student loans off of banks, freeing the banks to then offer even MORE federally insured loans. [4] From that point forward, banks had nothing to lose by offering loans since they - quite literally - could ONLY profit from the exchange. That meant a bank's sound underwriting reasoning, which typically would lead them to decline risky or unreasonable loan requests, was no longer present. If that weren't bad enough, the most important change came in 1978 with the Middle Income Student Assistance Act, which expanded federal student assistance programs to include middle-income students in addition to low-income students. [3] This is where everything changed. From this point forward, most of these financial aid programs were no longer limited to a minority of low income applicants, but instead became the norm for nearly the entire populace. Under this arrangement, loans would eventually be made to nearly everyone regardless of the requested price of tuition, and tuition would therefore be free to rise unchecked since no financial institution was saying "no." It should be no surprise, then, that this was the last decade our nation enjoyed relatively affordable tuition. Since that 1978 expansion, the cost of higher education increased more than 13 fold; about 1,225 percent. [5] To put that into perspective, in the same time period, ordinary inflation (CPI) had only increased 279 percent. [5]
CONCLUSION:
NO, massive and alarming increases in tuition did not occur PRIOR to expansions in financial aid. The expansions in financial aid occurred PRIOR to the tuition crisis. We have a legitimate problem on our hands, and it's important that it be properly diagnosed if we are ever to fix it.
>Second Argument soon and after that Sources.
>>70892582
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/articles/2015/10/06/map-countries-that-topped-the-2016-best-global-universities-rankings
We have the best colleges. Please provide some evidence showing that American universities aren't quality as you say.
>>70893037
So you think the cost of college is outrageous and indefensible? You're absolutely right!
"From 1987 to 2010, sticker price tuition and fees ballooned from $6,600 to $14,500 in 2010 dollars. After subtracting institutional aid, net tuition and fees still grew by 78%, from $5,790 to $10,290. To provide perspective, had net tuition risen at the rate of much maligned healthcare costs, tuition would have only reached about $8,700 in 2010." In other words, cost of education is increasing so fast that we'd be lucky if it were only as bad as our health care system. Unfortunately, it's worse.
One prominent idea as to why tuition is rising so fervently is that schools, seeing that their prospective buyers are able to pay more due to increased financial aid, will simply raise tuition, mostly offsetting the good intentions behind said financial aid. This paper tested and apparently confirmed that theory.
"These results accord strongly with the Bennett hypothesis, which asserts that colleges respond to expansions of financial aid by increasing tuition. In fact, the tuition response completely crowds out any additional enrollment that the financial aid expansion would otherwise induce, resulting instead in an enrollment decline from 33% to 27% in the new equilibrium with only demand shocks. Furthermore, the students who do enroll take out $6,876 in loans compared to $4,663 in the initial steady state. The college, in turn, uses these funds to finance an increase of investment expenditures from $21,550 to $27,338 and to enhance the quality of the student body. In particular, the average ability of graduates increases by 4 percentage points (pp). Lastly, the model predicts that demand shocks in isolation generate a surge in the default rate from 17% to 32%. Essentially, demand shocks lead to higher college costs and more debt, and in the absence of higher labor market returns, more loan default inevitably occurs."
>Part II soon
>>70892608
>A leaf doesn't understand that America and freedom kinda have a thing
Fucking color me surprised. Maybe we expect economic competition and consumer choice fueled by an abundance of wealth (low taxes) will create a higher standard of living. :^)
>>70892864
Bullshit degrees with remain bullshit but an electrical engineering degree isn't going to become worthless. Tell me right now you actually believe a petroleum engineering degree will become worth less than bussing tables for four years.
>>70893119
This is an unfortunate dose of harsh reality. What it means is, despite education being one of the greatest financial burdens on our youth, we MUST stop "helping" them. At least, we must stop "helping" in the way that we presently are, because it's NOT actually helping. The aid is, in a very counter-intuitive manner, HARMING people. It's resulting in tuitions that are harder to afford and loans that are harder to repay. Most people are simply not willing to accept the harsh reality that "student aid" is INSTITUTIONAL aid. It benefits the institution, its employees / educators, its leaders and coffers. What it does NOT help, unfortunately, is the nation's youth.
The government needs to stop throwing money at the problem; it's not working.
Why cant they make college just cheaper? Making it totally free is stupid, just look how great argentinian universities are
>>70892582
Our healthcare is overpriced because America subsidizes the cost of medical research further rest of the world
>>70893094
>An American organization ranked America first
>>70893199
I wasn't referring to what your taxes are spent on.
>tfw I got refunds each semester in college because muh scholarships
Fuck you for getting into debt at uni, plebs
we need more kids in trades desu
>>70893166
Source for second Argument as well as First
The full study can be read here:
[1]
http://www.nber.org/chapters/c13711.pdf
Sources for First Argument
[2]
http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/tuition-and-fees-and-room-and-board-over-time-1
[3]
http://www.finaid.org/educators/history.phtml
[4]
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3622709
[5]
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-18/college-tuition-costs-soar-chart-of-the-day (also the source of the graph)
>>70890887
>college could be free 50 years ago
It seems like he's realizing socialism works more in countries that are white.
>>70893217
http://www.shanghairanking.com/
Show me a ranking that doesn't put American universities at the top. Oh wait....
>>70891409
College would become nothing but Highschool 2.0. Tons of overworked teachers working for shit pay in overcrowded classrooms because they're just letting every idiot in and relying on the government for funding. It will completely devalue a college education.
>>70890887
50 years ago you couldn't major in buffy the vampire slayer.
any sort of free college will require admission and quality control, which will result in black people being terribly butthurt by their own failings which will result in the collapse of the system.
>>70893392
College education is already completely devalued. That's the entire problem. The customer isn't getting their money's worth.
>>70890887
Given that free or extremely cheap education has not had any measurable impact on the quality of education, not really. The US may have the best universities, but the difference is slight enough that foremost experts are typically educated from outside the US, while the US has the highest concentration of institutions, which invites these experts.
Unlike public healthcare, which is measurably barely passable whenever it has been implemented, free education actually appears to be viable.
>>70890994
In my college, we have the following courses (and this is just off the top of my head):
Bachelor of Social Media Consumption (AKA: using Twitter and Facebook. BACHELOR)
Gender Studies
Vampires in Literature
And so on.
>>70891409
>Then oh my god our country might be more educated.
>>70893134
Well that depends on the job market and the quality of education on that particular subject. Electrical engineering is one of those few subjects that is probably not going to be dumbed down to retard level. It just can't be. So yeah, degrees like that might remain valuable.
But at the same time, if there is a huge number of graduates for that degree and not a huge number of jobs it'll be just as worthless as everything else.
Also stop strawmanning me. Some fields like petroleum engineering will be affected less, I agree, but what the fuck is your argument exactly? That you want to pay shitload more in taxes so you could study petroleum engineering for """""free"""""? If the degree is commercially viable, there is no problem taking a loan to study it because it doesn't take your entire career to repay the loan. The free college thing subsidizes the economically nonviable degrees which will not land you a job. That's what it's for.
And you'll pay for them the rest of your life.
>>70891409
>>70891409
most of these people couldn't graduate from highschool before it was dumbed down for nigs.
>>70890994
The value of degree would be equal to that of high school now, as no financial risk was taken and colleges are flooded with fuckers who shouldn't be there. The universities wouldn't give a fuck about educating kids as there would be no fiscal incentive to get them ready for job market (in order to make them able to pay loans back) and so you'll see greater proliferation of bullshit majors and dumbfuck graduates
Why the fuck do people complain about government run schools and then simultaneously demand that college be free? If college is free, everyone would go, even IQ 80 people, college itself would be dumbed down even more than it already is just to ensure that Tyrone and Shaniqua can pass and they fulfill their diversity quota. Government run education is fucking horrendous, it would make college even shittier.
Public high school is an absolute joke. I'm fully in support of cutting off the public education system entirely, and instead of spending that 10,000 dollars or whatever it averages per student on running a public school, give each child a 10,000 dollar credit (or less) to take to a private school who will compete with other private schools to get that $10,000 voucher.
Right now, public school teachers are overpaid, underworked, and get way too many benefits. My high school teachers from 10 years ago were full degenerates, let's make teachers actually have to do their fucking jobs if they want a paycheck. Maybe then can we start competing with the rest of the world.
>>70891514
This
>>70893693
this DESU my local high school districts graduation rate is 89% but like 40% of recent graduates have to take remedial math and English classes after graduation
>>70890887
"If I could beat my wife 50 YEARS AGO, I don't know why the hell I can't do it today.
>>70890994
It's not a question about if it'll work or not. It's more about devaluing the college degree.
College degrees are already becoming worthless as fuck. Making college free will just turn it into high school 2.0.
>>70890994
Back in the day a high school diploma was enough for a decent job. Now everybody has high school diplomas. Making college free just makes it the equivalent of an extension of high school. What you will have is an ovsrsaturation of degrees and employers that of require 2 or 4 year degrees will ask for 6 or 8 year degrees until govt makes that free. There will also be way more people getting useless degrees and there is still a lack of trade skills which college doesn't teach you how to fix toilets and cars.
The next reason is similar to why college is already expensive. There are so many grants and scholarships now and so many people going to college that colleges can charge whatever the hell they want and people will still pay it. Many are raised thinking college is the only way to a successful life and will save up whatever necessary to pay to get a degree.
>>70893790
>Right now, public school teachers are overpaid, underworked, and get way too many benefits.
>>70893532
Making everyone in America pay more money to devalue it even more is a bad solution then.
>>70893134
There are no jobs in Electrical Engineering Anon.
They have mostly been h1b1'd. Just be an electrician and go be an apprentice somewhere
>>70893790
>Right now, public school teachers are overpaid, underworked, and get way too many benefits
Getting paid barely above poverty level isn't overpaid. They're overworked, especially dealing with a bunch of shitheads that keep demanding to pass. If Highschool was actually allowed to fail students, you'll see a huge increase of better education all over.
>>70890994
College is useless thats why uni is god tier
>>70893283
>tfw you didn't get paid to go to college.
>>70893896
Full benefits, 3 months off per year, and depending on where you are, a pretty generous salary for teaching a bunch of shits how to read and then popping in a VHS tape about Papua New Ginneans every once in a while
>>70893134
Hate to break it to you bub but the world needs more than just electrical engineers. And not everyone can even do that. We need the stupid to do stupid work, not everyone is a special snowflake smart guy like you. But wasting money on those people is pointless.
>>70893867
which is precisely what public college has become.
the ability for colleges to become more selective about their applicants means their degrees will carry more weight for universities.
COLLEGE degrees are worthless. university degrees aren't. college is just a gateway to university if the individual wants to take that route.
>>70894059
>Full benefits,
Working 60 hours per week that's fine.
>3 months off per year,
Unpaid
>depending on where you are, a pretty generous salary for teaching a bunch of shits how to read and then popping in a VHS tape about Papua New Ginneans every once in a while
How to read? Nobody knows how to read anymore. And History teachers aren't all teachers.
>>70891320
>EVERYONE CAN GO
This maymay needs to end yesterday. Tons of countries of public schools that are tuition free and they are HIGHLY selective. If anything making public schools tuition free would make them more competitive.
>>70894007
>Barely above poverty level
Starting salary yeah, but look at the outrageous retirement pensions that they get, my uncle married a school teacher and she has a nice pension retirement all for teaching English to a bunch of ungrateful fucks and getting 3 month vacations, fuck these people, go vouchers, that way the schools will have to compete with each other and only the good schools and good teachers will survive
>>70894059
bruh, just cause your high school was shit or you were too retarded to pay attention doesn't mean teachers have it easy.
those "three months off" are full of mandatory conventions and workshops. they don't stop working when the bell rings, they take their work home.
yeah, those high schools teachers are raking in the cash. that's why they take summer jobs doing retail or adjunct at a college.
>>70890887
The great question is, can a society be great with no one at the bottom?
>>70894254
Kids need to be disciplined more than we need better teachers tbqh pham.
I don't get the "It'd be equated to a high school degree" thing that some people here spout.
It probably would devalue a high school degree to make college "free," but the difference here is that you suddenly have a higher degree of general knowledge among people and almost all of them will be actually specialized, which has a lot more impact.
When there are more specialists, more jobs can be created in all kinds of fields. If you think there's not going to be anywhere for them to go, just think of how many people will also be walking out with degrees that trained them to start or run businesses.
And even then, at the end of the day, a trade is a perfectly good alternative. There just wouldn't be much excuse anymore to leave off at college. You either go into a trade or you pursue a higher education.
>>70894338
Everyone could be at the bottom.
>>70894159
m8 I go to a university and it's already high school 2.0
you have people here that can't even do basic algebra or write a research paper with proper documentation
My freshmen year I missed the deadline to accept my college algebra class CLEP and had to take it. I felt like I was in a high school class. People were talking and texting. Half the class didn't know basic algebra.
Things got better as I got towards my senior year since all the morons graduate after their financial aid runs out, but there are still tons of retards walking around with bachelor degrees from universities because it's so easy to fake your way through the vast majority of colleges AND universities.
>>70894314
>Boo hoo those poor teachers have to go to mandatory conventions and workshops it's like the holocaust all over again
>>70894254
Only if you live in California. And pension is just 401k but government paid, so it becomes a 403b. It's the same shit.
And trying to teach English to a bunch of ungrateful fucks is actually a pretty hard job. If the class was just a bunch of grateful fucks, then you have a point, but forced to teach a bunch of ungrateful ones? Now that's tough.
And Charter Schools already are competing with public schools. And your'e wrong that the good schools and teachers survives. What happens is the Charters boots out all the ungrateful fucks and niggers, creating a homogenous culture of grateful fucks. Then giving the public schools all the shit tier nigger Bernie Sanders supporters. Hence the lower standards because all these niggers can't hack it anymore.
>>70892352
College is already free if you are smart.
>>70894412
Nah, 90% of them are still going to major in Women's Suffrage. And there's now calls to remove Western Civilization courses from Harvard.
>>70893304
>>70893166
>>70893119
>>70893037
>>70892972
>>70892836
>>70892744
you're a great man anon.
thank you.
so basically the schools need to foot the bill for financial aid via scholarships, and banks and schools have been in bed with each other hiking up the prices?
I personally think it's a bubble. eventually, kids will just stop going to college.
>>70890994
Wrong question. You should be asking why free college is even desirable. Do we really need more (((educated))) people?
textbook rackets
sports rackets
etc
>>70893540
both should be implemented on the state level.
also, a prime concern is that once the government gets its hands on universities then they'll start catering to the governments wishes (like what happened at Yale, Mizzou, CMC, would be way fucking worse if everyone's tax dollars were going to those schools)
>>70893304
Read through the whole thing drunk as fuck, didn't understand a word. 5/7.
>>70894654
That's basically what is happening right now. Young people, especially young white males who feel that college is not just a waste of time but a danger to them are instead doing trades or just learning in the field.
One thing that college doesn't teach you is how to become an adult and act like one.
>>70893915
I fell for the STEM meme. They can and do hire h1b1 Pajeet over any recent grad. Now I work at pep boys training to become a mechanic. :[
>>70894444
I envy you Estonia, with your fast internet and (probably) qt women. Are there qt women?
>>70894314
Some teachers do, but not all.
To everyone saying that college is already free if you know how to get scholarships, you do understand that there's only so much of that funding to go around, right?
Anyway, you can't have the ENTIRE population aged 18-22 going to college, the infrastructure just isn't in place.
I'm 26 and currently a freshman using my GI Bill, so I have a pretty sweet deal. But these kids, jesus fucking christ they are absolute morons. As others have already pointed out, very few are capable of *simple* algebra, have an extremely poor ability to formulate proper arguments and can barely write a paper that actually follows the prompt and criteria. These kids don't pay attention in class, they fuck off on their smartphones and laptops and then shittalk the lecturers for giving "bad" lectures. They're more interested in campaigning for social justice and getting fucked up than actually learning. That's truly the worst part about it: none of these little chucklefucks want to learn! Sending everyone to college is not a solution, it's a way to fuck over anyone and everyone who's actually willing to work hard and has a passion for expanding their horizons.
tl;dr fuck these demagogues with their petty populist "policies."
>>70890994
>implying memes cant ever contain facts
intellecually dishonest cunt detected
>>70895048
Letting anyone go to college != forcing everyone to go to college.
>>70895010
I'm gay.
>>70895200
If college is "free," people will want to go. Why? Because they've been told all their life, through media and their peers, that college is where the cool kids go. You fuck and drink and smoke and sleep through your classes, just partying for 4 years straight. There's already a lot of dumbasses here who think that's exactly what it is, disgustingly enough. If you're a lazy shit, why wouldn't you want to live the high life for four years for free?
>>70892130
why is deciding college admission on merit instead of wealth a bad thing?
>>70891643
There would still be private colleges.
>>70894608
I think that a lot of people are just majoring in useless things because they want to say that they have a college degree without spending the extra time exploring their options so that they don't crush themselves under the insanely high tuition rates. If you make college much more affordable, or even "free," then that relieves a lot of that pressure and gives people the opportunity to more freely career search for a field that appeals more to them.
>>70892271
underrated
>>70892237
How about this
>people studying in a STEM field gets jobs
>everyone else can't find shit because they wasted their money
>>70893543
>Bachelor of Social Media Consumption
That's not a course.
>>70895480
Bullshit. Go to a community college and explore. Universities should be for people that actually want to better themselves, not kids who aren't sure if they will major in business or art.
>>70895410
>There's already a lot of dumbasses here who think that's exactly what it is
Who are you trying to fool? That's exactly what it is.
>>70895420
Because of the scam artists at the College Board arbitrarily deciding what's important. GPA has fuck all to do with your performance at work.
>>70892352
>give more people degrees and allow the best workers to automatically rise to the top from the competition that is created
Highly competitive labor markets bring wages down, not up
>>70890994
Because its not fucking free to begin with god fucking dammit. Im sick of retards talking about "free" health care and "free" college
>>70890887
What happens to the existing student debt?
>>70892272
Stocks and bonds
>>70895665
Certainly not for STEM. It is, however, disgustingly true for many of the liberal arts degrees.
>>70891320
>the question is where does the money come from?
Higher education -> Higher income -> More tax revenue -> Funding for free college
It's actually an incredibly great deal for the state to make. Some college degrees pay for themselves in taxes and increased productivity within the company the person gets hired, within just within 2 years.
>>70895841
And when college becomes "free", what do you think all these new students will major in? Physics? lmao
>>70890994
I volunteer with Engineers without Borders. One of the very defining principles we follow is NEVER GIVE AWAY ANYTHING FOR FREE. We can build latrines and showers in remote mountain villages in Bolivia, which we could fund entirely ourselves, yet we ask the local village to pay a share. I believe 10% of value is the minimum, a requirement for any outreach in our organization.
We have done projects for free in the past, before the rule was implemented. We found that nobody would take care of the latrine or even use them for their intended purpose. We found that instead, shepards were using them too keep their sheep dry, or they were using them as chicken coops, or trash storage. We started making them pay (and do an application) and the response has improved night and day.
Same thing in Africa. In Botswana for a different group we have been building suspension footbridges to cross large rivers because many people drown when attempting to cross, and there are no bridges in these remote lands. We have them pay a small fee, and then we make them build it. They take pride in their work so they don't try to steal materials from it. The bridges tend be taken away by floods every few years because they are not designed to be permanent, just cheap enough and easy to replace
>>70890994
>can someone explain why making college free wont work? i need facts, not memes please
80% of college degrees have no financial value in the real world. Its fine if trust fund kiddies and idiots want to blow their own money on worthless degrees or drop out after a semester. But its quite another to waste societies money on English Lit majors.
>>70890887
>make college free
>college degree is just high school diploma part 2
>completely destroy the purpose of college, which is to have an advantage in being hired when competing against other people
>>70895788
But it is free. Doctor visits and operations are free... Meds are not.
As for education here now daycare is basically free. And college/uni is free to people making under 30k. which means anyone can learn once they move out of there mommy's basement.
Taxes are always there. It's why Canada sucks. Your the one who voted in weed man. Don't get mad what did you expect liberals steal and lie.
>>70896028
>if more people know freshman and sophomore level knowledge, more wealth will be created!
Very few people are learning the kinds of skills that will facilitate greater wealth creation. Do remember that in America, there are a plethora of useless degrees which people graduate with.
>>70896198
Gender Studies and Crushing Puss
>>70890887
>college more expensive than ever
>unprecedented national debt
>global economic crisis
>>70890887
people arent going to college because they cant afford it, people arent going to college because they wouldnt go anyway. It's retarded. Theres nothign wrong with getting a student loan, in fact it will drive you to get a job
>>70895622
Do you have any idea how many people attend universities without knowing what they want?
It's a lot more than your statement would lead me to believe that you think. Some people test the waters out at community colleges first, but you better believe that if public universities were free, they'd prefer to test the waters at a school with better facilities.
And surprisingly, the ones that survive the first year of university with no clear goal in mind often change their major at least once, then end up graduating in a field that they like.
It's already happening. I should know, I've been watching it happen for the past seven years while I've completed my undergraduate and then been working on a masters. After not being sure what specialization in my field that I wanted to take upon entry, and then picking a masters that's only in a related field AFTER graduating.
>>70895585
No, it's a 4-year program
>>70896435
I agree
>>70893094
>Still not understanding averages
Wew lad that education
>>70890887
If you, degenerates, want free college, you should go to a Russian one. All of them here are either free or very affordable (for an American). Wanna know why nobody comes here to get this "free" education? Because for the most part, it's shit, and unless you have a decent work experience (or are well connected) upon graduating, your degree will normally get you a great job choice between cleaning toilets and working in an office as a copy machine/fax manager for $2.5/hour.
Some of the fine degrees available at my university.
SCHOLARSHIPS ALREADY EXIST!
>b-but I'm a rotten student and I still want to go to college!
GET FUCKING GOOD.
>>70890994
If effectively remove prices for people getting an education then the service gets abused. There is literally no benefit for a consumer to make efficient use of it.
The result then is that the demand for college education will skyrocket, but the only way to fund the resultant costs of this demand will be more government money
>>70893199
This meme again. Healthcare in the USA costs a lot because it is driven by profit and every part of the system takes a cut. Medical research costs are dwarfed by big pharmacy advertising budgets.
>>70894230
>Working 60 hours per week that's fine.
they work 5 8's unless they do academics or sports which they get extra pay for.
>3 months off per year,
>Unpaid
they get to claim unemployment for those 3 months.
its an easy job with no stress or challenges unless your teaching a room full of deranged niggers
>>70890887
>not aware that this is how we ended up with student debt in the first place.
this is like level one economics
>>70890994
I'm all for paid public education. It's embarrassing to live in country full of dumbasses.
The problem is look at fucking college today? Safe spaces, 'rape culture', microagressions, from creationism to identity politics, feelings are trumping scientific method and reason and I'm sure as Hellfire not paying for that.
Reform education first, get religion & politics out of the class, then we'll talk about public paid education.
If you could put a man on the moon 50 years ago, I don't know why you can't do it today.
Other than that, general rule: Don't have the state pay private companies for an individual consumer service.
>>70896028
Except here we have niggers, so it's more like:
Higher """education""" -> no income -> mo' benefits -> no revenue
When you have 13% of your population be functionally retarded, it sort of drags down any lofty goals of a well-educated populace of philosopher kings.
>>70892836
>>70892972
>>70893037
>>70893119
>>70893166
>>70893304
Damn fine posts.
>>70896966
I'm not sure how you're under the impression that they only work 8 hours a day when they have to show up before class begins, leave after it ends, and still have to grade homework and tests when they go home, as well as actually creating the assignments and tests to begin with.
>>70890887
> Tuition-free.
> Bereft of tuition.
Sounds like "college" to me.
But your question:
> 50 Years ago = not today
The conditions were massively different. The expectation would be that a graduate would get a job for an American firm and this would pay itself off. No such reassurances now.
> Ironic that all of the forces of change that the left support precludes them from gaining the things that they want.
>>70896828
>Medieval Studies
Jesus christ, at least women's studies has some theoretical social use if not anything that's actually applicable in reality. Medieval Studies sounds like pure horseshit.
>>70891544
>a country is a team that helps each other
No, a country is an apparatus formed by a general collection of people to enforce a set of principles which the larger collective holds to be worth enforcing. Your nation may hold the principle of helping others as near and dear, but in America a large section of the population still holds that the main principle of government should be preserving personal liberty.
>>70897156
>I'm all for paid public education. It's embarrassing to live in country full of dumbasses.
Public education doesn't make you smart.
>>70891934
Someone needs free remedial writing classes.
>>70897629
To be real I don't know where the fuck they're even offering the classes for it and I've never met anyone who even knew that we offered it.
>>70896836
Too bad more scholarships are becoming exclusive to females, minorities, single mothers, or a combination.
With the remaining scholarships, there's only a certain number handed out every year. Not everyone who's eligible gets them.
>>70890887
Less retarded than any Trump quote
>>70890887
what he wants to achieve isnt all that bad.
its how he wants to achieve it that is.
theres a lot of other problems that needs fixing before you can just make it "free" for everyone,
without fucking everything up and making things worse.
>>70897769
>spending the most state money on the people who will pay the least taxes
smart
thanks obama
>>70894245
And yet none of them are held to our standards.
>>70897784
>what he wants to achieve isnt all that bad.
You can't middle-ground your way out of this, you fuck. Free college is a bad idea, even if we could afford it.
>>70897895
>Free college is a bad idea, even if we could afford it.
Let me change this a bit:
Free private college is a bad idea.
Free public college is an idea with a very successful track record from around the world.
>>70897780
BUILD
>>70892582
>inefficent
Nigger we take xrays and provide mobile healthcare on the fly.
Meanwhile, pic related.
>>70898090
Name one inherent success with free public college. As your nation devours itself. Please.
>>70898254
>As your nation devours itself.
Oh, yeah, I'm sure that's a problem caused by free college education, not by retarded politics and wars we didn't cause.
>>70892608
>Have the country give everything to you and yet give nothing back?
You idiot, I don't want the government to give me any more than is absolutely necessary for my survival. I need a military and security to keep some random sand nigger from blowing up my house. I need a head state to deal with all you other shit nations. I kinda need roads to ease transportation between places. I kinda need some regulatory bodies to make sure I'm being poisoned by the corporate Jew. I don't need FREE COLLEGE because its going to reduce the value of my degree. I don't need FREE HEALTHCARE because I can already get covered by a decent coverage.
>>70890994
It can work if there are vast amounts of govt spending, meaning vast amounts of spending cuts elsewhere. This plus a tax on the rich.
>>70898090
Public college is a breeding ground for leftists, and I'd imagine a free public college would be even more so.
>>70897895
like i said, its how you would implement it that determines if its a good or bad thing to do.
>>70897273
The tests and measure of grading come from a guideline and often recycled planner. In 2 weeks you could have the entire coursework planned. Even more so, most test and homework can be processed electronically.
Public education has been automated to levels that make teachers no better than baby sitters or McDonald's line cooks.
>>70898342
>I'm sure that's a problem caused by free college education, not by retarded politics
Who do you think causes these "retarded politics", Hans? Where do you think they come from? Do they pop up out of thin air? Can you possibly see a connection between liberal indoctrination in college, and supporting mass immigration as an adult?
>>70898407
And private college totally isn't? Come on now.
But sure, following that logic, let's abolish college education altogether. That'll show the leftists!
>>70891782
>thinks they teach how to avoid typos in college
>argues from the educational high ground
>>70898532
Sure, why not. Apprenticeships and on-the-job training have worked for thousands of years. College as job preparation is a fairly new phenomenon.
>>70890887
>babyboomer: the mentality
>>70898527
>Who do you think causes these "retarded politics", Hans?
It sure as fuck isn't college students, because no one listens to those. If you think politics cares about a bunch of 20somethings, you're delusional.
And if you think mass immigration has the peoples support, you're even more delusional. Merkel decided this bullshit out of fucking nowhere. We weren't asked.
>>70898624
Yes, I'm sure the world as a whole didn't change at all since then. I mean, what has college ever done for us? It's not like it produces the same people that keep coming up with everything new.
>>70898342
Generally when you let poor uneducated liberals congregate and discuss things they know nothing about, tends to have a negative effect on society. For example: Germany.
Look pal, if privatizing schools makes barriers in the social system then good. We need the uneducated to stay out of power, out of influence, and away from the tools needed to cause any harm. Keeping the stupid poor and uneducated keeps our engines running than so fucking be it. Otherwise we'd have a world of leaders who would invite a literal whore and sexist man hating bigot to the UN to talk about internet bullies. Oh wait...
>>70898699
>It's not like it produces the same people that keep coming up with everything new.
Why do we keep needing more and more "new" things? Why do you willingly fall for this meme?
What's to stop us from lobbying our senators / congressmen to defund programs that 90% of us deem unworthy of public funding? Why haven't we done this? We can cut
>African American studies,
>Asian studies,
>Jewish studies,
>Latin American studies,
>Medieval Studies,
>Women's Studies
Individuals may opt to take courses from these programs, but they would be paid entirely by the individuals involved in the program and not from public expenditure. In addition, we can make the following studies a private opt-in situation like above in addition to scholarships given to the top n-number students:
>philosophy
>psychology
>english
>history
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we could get this done if we made a legitimate campaign and meme-bomb the internet. Do any states do this?
>>70898829
>Generally when you let poor uneducated liberals congregate and discuss things they know nothing about, tends to have a negative effect on society.
If anyone listens to them, which no one does.
> We need the uneducated to stay out of power, out of influence, and away from the tools needed to cause any harm.
You're advocating keeping them out of education, though.
>Keeping the stupid poor and uneducated keeps our engines running than so fucking be it.
That's the thing: It doesn't. The world moved on, the poor and uneducated exist by the billions, they aren't enough anymore to keep your nation on top. The poor and uneducated drag you to the level of china.
>>70898892
>Why do we keep needing more and more "new" things?
Because if you don't come up with them, someone else does, rakes in the profit, and leaves your outdated shit in the dust.
The red queen isn't stopping for you.
>>70896828
>>70897629
>not double majoring in Philosophy and Medieval Studies>>70897629
>>70898643
the worst generation in the history of the human race.
>>70898254
A modern economy has no need for Bernie supporters or the poor white trash of a Trump rally.
Endless low quality classes in basket weaving would keep them occupied. Obviously it's a less valuable occupation than being the CEO of Facebook, because we all know selling social media is more important.
>>70899068
If you don't mind, I'm going to disregard your awful post and collect your rare flag, thanks
>>70890994
Because the average cost of a year in a university is roughly 30 grand, 23-25 being generous.
Multiply that by 4 for a 4 year degree and multiply THAT by the number of 18-25 year olds in America (25 million) and you get a couple trillion more than the war on terror costed.
Also it's untaxable and it follows a liberal mindset of "if we have a spending problem we should throw more money at it until it disappears"
Reagan was smart because he was a fiscal conservative and lowered the debt ceiling.
>>70898953
>cutting medeival studies
KEKOLD ALERT
>>70898892
B8.
>>70899339
How is it bait? Explain.
>>70899339
No, really, I'm tired of bullshit that only causes social harm by elevating narcissism. Just because something is new or popular doesn't automatically make it good.
>>70890887
it would be like saying "if dinosaurs existed millions of years ago why cant they exist today"
the answer besides the obvious they are all dead is that global oxygen levels are to low to support many of them. the earth was warmer and hard a denser atmosphere that had more oxygen
jurassic park movies dont resolve this problem in the story ever
>>70890994
>>can someone explain why making college free wont work? i need facts, not memes please
for the same reason it doesn't work in every other country
wait shi
>>70890887
Guys imagine if food was free like 2000 years ago omg
>>70899583
We'd be overrun by niggers and every other form of r-selected trash.
>>70891602
/thread
College is barely about education anymore. It is a cluster fuck of leftists pushing social justice while a handful of people attempt to get a paper that lets them build spaceships and shit. I think this is why I am so turned off from going.
>>70898974
>level of China
The second most powerful country in the world with ability to flood any economy into a depression. Not bad for a communist nation.
Capitalism works. Our method of progress is that the cream rises and the shit falls. If someone has dreams and aspirations to be somebody, they can do it. But how hard are you willing to work? It does suck that in order to make your own success you must answer for the follies of those who have raised you. If the parents have made poor decisions in life then you have to work twice as hard to correct them. But it's not impossible in the way we do things. Intelligent people have a drive and desire to be and do better, your average intellgence buttfuck does not. But putting them in the same scenario over shadows the person of value. I would rather risk the chance of skipping over the next Einstein, than allow the country to be flooded by fuckwits who think they matter because my taxes bought them a degree.
>>70899068
You make me feel like a blind man borrowing your unsharpened pencil.
To be clear, I don't see your point.
>>70899865
>It does suck that in order to make your own success you must answer for the follies of those who have raised you. If the parents have made poor decisions in life then you have to work twice as hard to correct them.
And this is hurting everyone. You're making it harder for the poor to stop being poor. You solidify class differences, reduce the ability to actually get anywhere in life, and hence the lower half of your nation loses aspiration and faith in the system.
> I would rather risk the chance of skipping over the next Einstein, than allow the country to be flooded by fuckwits who think they matter because my taxes bought them a degree.
You know what is much, MUCH worse than people who think they matter, even though they don't?
People who realize they don't matter. This is how you get uprisings.
>>70899863
Really depends on the college. There are plenty of good tech centered universities that are breaking ground in most science fields.
>>70895539
But what do you mean my gender studies degree doesn't qualify me for working at Virgin Galactic? Fuck societies institutional sexism.
>>70891352
>When someone says they want college to be free, what they actually mean is, "I want to be able to have my checkout clerk help me solve 22 across on the Sunday New York Times crossword."
Exactly how retarded is this quote?
>>70892774
>If people cannot afford those then they don't deserve them
This right here is why our country deserves to be the shittiest 1st world country.
>>70898094
WALL
>>70890994
We can't even give our kids proper lunches in public schools, we sure as fuck can't have free college.
The quality of public schools are garbage. Teachers don't get fired, students don't get expelled, students are physically assaulting teachers, this shit does not happen in private charter schools
>>70900104
We can't all be winners. There has to be those who are the result of poor choices and corrupt systems. These people are the examples, and the warning flags for those who are treading too close to that point. People fail, people starve, people never become rich, people don't live past 25, people die everyday. That is life. And the only way to avoid the absolute level of sufferage that the American impoverished see and experience everyday is to push and climb and usurp and claw as hard as you can to a point where you will never have to look down at what your life could have been.
And as for the uprisings. We've been waiting.
>>70900137
Sadly, I don't have the money to go to most of said schools, or the money to live near many said schools, and student loans are terrifying.
>>70894245
This.
>>70897855
Right, they're held to generally higher ones.
See: Every public university in the world outside of the US
Public universities should be made free, federal student loan and grant programs eliminated entirely, and entrance examinations made brutal. Let private schools do whatever the fuck they want, but let the brats that can afford it pay for it themselves if they can't get into one of the more public universities.
Private student loans would also naturally extend and evolve to accommodate those that can't afford the relatively small cost of trade school, but I think those sorts of programs are just where they should be right now.
I honestly think this "socialism is bad for everything" meme is just a reactionary opinion stirred up by actual shills in disenfranchised portions of the internet. It's fucking sad to see peasants argue that they should remain peasants or everything will just break down. It's almost like there's groups of powerful, wealthy people that benefit from the poor remaining poor and indebted-but no, that can't be true, because something something muh freedoms.
>>70900396
I don't think it is as much as we can't al be winners, as we won't all be winners. Although, I guess some peoples lack of willingness to excel forces them to lose. Maybe your right. After all, you can try as you may, but in the end you just can't fix stupid.
>>70896828
my school
>>70900396
>We can't all be winners.
Yeah, but "my parents are rich" is a shit way to determine who wins and who loses.
>There has to be those who are the result of poor choices and corrupt systems.
Poor choices? Yes, so long as it's their own. Corrupt systems? No. There don't have to be people who lose because the system is corrupt. Come the fuck on, you're now actually arguing for corruption.
>People fail, people starve, people never become rich, people don't live past 25, people die everyday.
Yeah, but frankly, I don't want people starving, or needlessly dieing as young adults, in my nation. Especially not because that's not exactly helping the economy. I'd much rather have them be workers who think they can get places in life. Not people who notice that everything around them is shit, and they won't ever get anywhere.
>And as for the uprisings. We've been waiting.
Are you fucking blind? Your niggers chimp out ever second week, the leftists try to occupy everything they can, and the poor right is simply leaving the system.
>>70899394
>Why do we keep needing more and more "new" things? Why do you willingly fall for this meme?
If by new things, you mean scientific and technological progress, then that's what I have an issue with. You could argue advancements have even yielded negative effects, but I seriously doubt you can say that people, 100 years ago for example, had an overall as good of a quality of life as we do today (so many diseases that we now can treat and cure, for example). These advancements are done by educated people, who perform research in their fields (which colleges also provide).
100 years from now, if we maintain the same level of progress that we have been making, people will most find it hard to believe that our quality of life was so poor.
>>70899470
>No, really, I'm tired of bullshit that only causes social harm by elevating narcissism.
Ironically on arguably one of the most overall narcissistic boards on 4chan.
>Just because something is new or popular doesn't automatically make it good.
Of course not, however the same applies the other way around. The point I'm making is that if people in the past used the same logic in the post I originally replied to, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now, as computers wouldn't be anyway near the level they are today, let alone exist.
>>70900697
>Poor choices? Yes, so long as it's their own.
Poor choices are determined by you just as much as corruption is, i.e. not at all. If you believe in free will in 2016 you're either religious or retarded.
>>70900788
Surely you're then in favor of abolishing criminal law, yes?
I mean, if it's not their free choice, you can't hold them responsible.
>>70900704
>If by new things, you mean scientific and technological progress, then that's what I have an issue with.
What if instead of constantly running from death and suffering, we learn to embrace it? Ideology can accomplish what science never will, and we won't need thousands of nerds and thousands of years to do it.
>>70900844
No? The goal of prison should be rehabilitation, not punishment. A human can have its behavior corrected just like a robot can. Free will has nothing to do with it.
>>70900788
Yes, tell me more about how you can't stop being a cuck because you cannot choose to ignore the BBC
>>70999999
>>70895048
Exactly.
I think part of the problem is that high school pushes college down your throat. These eighteen year old kids are getting in debt to the tune of 40k a year, studying what they love to do (draw, theatre, etc.) [which is fine, its your money]. The problem is they aren't mature enough to understand college, and should probably wait til 23 to pick a major and start school. So many of my friends went into either computer science or art, and neither camp is doing either field. [It seems computer science is starting to deflate and the artists realized art isn't where the money is]
I'm all for "free" college. However, it should kick in when they're older. at least not a teenager.
>>70900598
When I couldn't find work in the field I wanted, I joined the military. People don't know the phrase "sacrifice for yourself" anymore. I left home and missed out on everything a regular person experiences when they go to college. But when I came back I had 5 times more the opportunity to make it to where I wanted to be. And now here I am. Engaged, paying for my own place, working for 23$ an hour at the age of 25 with massive capability to expand. No kids, a dog, a Ranger, a king sized bed, a 3000$ computer. 10 grand worth of furnishings, and in the best health of my life. And a retirement plan and banking structure that the general population could only dream of having.
If I had stayed where I was heading before I decided to sacrifice for myself. And suck fuck my friends and my family and whoever and whatever else, I need to do this for me. Is probably be another student loan debt dragging burn out bernie supporter crying woe is me and where is my freedomes
>>70900936
But isn't that directly opposed to your nihilistic retarded bullshit laid out here >>70900874 ?
>>70901052
I don't analyze my own opinions for consistency, I'm not some autistic philosopher. Stop trying to poke holes in everything you fucking Jew.
>>70890887
Probably because
a) There literally weren't as many people going to college
b) They didn't have shit tier degrees like they do now
c) College doesn't teach you the mindset of saving your money, so if you didn't know that before, you won't know it after. Good luck with that inflation + degree in black women's studies
Also I never went to college, nor do I plan on ever going. Why the fuck would I want to pay more taxes so the stupid shits who were (protip) too stupid to get in before, can major in those aforementioned useless degrees.
>>70900788
If you don't believe in free will, then you have eliminated the myth of personal responsibility with it, and are admitting that humans are influenced primarily by external factors.
You can't make choices if there's no such thing as free will, by the way. I don't why you're so accepting of a brutal, uncompromising system when you're basically illiterate. The German you're arguing with has a better grasp of your native language than you. Aren't you fucking embarrassed?
>>70901174
>I don't analyze my own opinions for consistency
Maybe you should, you'd look a lot less retarded if you did.
>>70900704
I'm not making that argument. I would argue, however, that some technologies can have awful effects on society, like the cotton gin.
I hate feeling like a luddite, but I'm tired of seeing people who are so babied that they can barely figure out how to do anything more advanced with computers than using them as facebook machines. I hate that people can't read maps or do research without googling. I hate that people don't even know how to google effectively, and most of all I hate how people don't know how to help themselves. I think we've reached a point where our tech is so "user friendly" that people are becoming less tech savvy.
>>70901205
>You can't make choices if there's no such thing as free will, by the way.
Sure you can, software makes choices all the time and it for sure has no free will.
>Aren't you fucking embarrassed?
No? You're understanding my points, and that's good enough for me. I don't need to type/speak perfectly.
>>70901004
When I was about to graduate high school, I had barely a clue what college is about, only that I should go there and everything else would sort itself out. I regret that immensely, however, I didn't think I had much of a choice at the time because I was under the impression that the few scholarship opportunities that I had would all dry up if I waited a year or two because they only apply to people right out of high school.
So in essence, it's like the whole thing is rigged to cause people to make poor choices
>>70896836
The only scholarships that I am eligible for are ones that want 10 page or more essays for 100 dollars, fuck that. I'll just take loans and get those sweet government and university grants (which is like half my tuition).
>>70901324
I agree with this. College was a terrible choice for me.
But everyone around me made it seem that if I didn't go to a university, my life would just fall apart and I'd be ruined forever. A counselor at my school flatly told me that his job was to "get me into a college".
So now, my life has fallen apart and I'm ruined forever, except I also have to pay back 40k worth of debt. No one wants to hire me due to a lack of experience (reasonably so). No one in HR for lower-tier positions seems to want to hire me for full-time grunt work that I could use to bruteforce my way through my loans either, because there's this specious idea that I somehow might be able to find something better and leave.
I wouldn't be as pissed off if SL debt functioned the same as any other sort of consumer debt, but no; you can't even get rid of it via bankruptcy.
>>70900874
>What if instead of constantly running from death and suffering, we learn to embrace it?
If this is truly what you believe in, then I would expect that you would never visit a doctor, for example.
>>70901174
>I don't analyze my own opinions for consistency
You should do it some day, even if out of boredom. Doing this really what drives you to arrive at new viewpoints.
>>70901273
>I would argue, however, that some technologies can have awful effects on society, like the cotton gin.
I agree.
>or do research without googling.
So basically, studying out of textbooks?
We need to refine education to be of an incredibly high standard. Our resources need to be pooled for this purpose.
Everyone else, ie the 99% goes to the gulags to generate the wealth this task requires.
>>70901996
>textbooks
In a gross sense, yes. Also periodicals, journals, scholarly articles, news articles and databases.
>>70902162
>Also periodicals, journals, scholarly articles, news articles and databases.
Be happy that these are becoming easier to access due to the internet. Back to your original post:
>No, really, I'm tired of bullshit that only causes social harm by elevating narcissism.
So basically social media? I agree.
I'm off guys. Night.
>>70898643
>>70899005
Bernie is from the Silent Generation though.
>>70891459
Dope answer, familia
Underrated
>>70891544
A fucking leaf
>>70890887
ignorant shill. 2% tax on wall street is double digit bill. he'd probably make community colleges up, i pray to allah much greater than we need to depend on them private snank snakes for a internally reputable degree.
making every state school free? crazy shit. maybe possible if 10%+ tax on wall street. we'll see. We gotta trust this Jew, maybe Kanye could run 2016. I don't care. Reps seem to lose this one. And clinton is literally a ho of her soul. And.... more reps support bernie than clinton so qed dont trip, get on some loud voice shit and bring the heretic goys down.
fucking snakes not researching shit. yall ignorant shills, not much better than a jew. U tax wall street and banks. what's the problem. 16 tril * .0.04. do the math
>>70892102
bro he tryna tax banks
>>70896719
Name a top-tier university under the commonwealth
>Hardmode: no Oxford or Cambridge
>>70897833
It's only fair
>YOU'RE FUCKING A WHITE MALE. YOUR FAMILY HAS TENS OF THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN FREE MONEY TO SPEND ON YOUR SCHOOL
>>70894972
Now you can't afford a loo to poo in
>>70890994
Short story: businesses and rich people will leave the country and take their jobs with them. Their portion of the cost will then be shifted to the middle class which will now be shrinking as a result of the lack of jobs.
Long story: whenever you subsidize something, you create a shortage for that thing. Now that anyone will be able to attend college for free, a college degree will mean as much as a high school diploma and will therfore become even more standard than it is now. What that will mean, is a shitload more people going to college. The more people who go to college, the more college costs, the more college costs, the higher your taxes.
The tax increases that Bernie proposes will be the first of a series, if he's actually elected and able to implement them, because the cost of college education will not stay the same forever. Especially if it's free.
I unironically believe people should be paid to go to university, although I would reduce the numbers of people going by about 95% and make it a full-time job.
>>70896028
> implying that it works that way in countries like fagmark where salaries for college graduates are low because everyone can go to college.
And less people get eduated anyway, than in the USA
>>70891196
Cut military spending.
Simply pull out of the middle east and let it go to hell.
Put that fundi g into education and just ignore ww3 until some dumb country attacks us
>>70907322
That's... Retarded? Did you even think for a second on what you just said? You think that if america cuts it military it will be able to just get it back with the switch of a button whenever it wants too?
>>70894972
I renounce my job for you, my American friend.
All Americans deserve to be fat. - Gandhi.
>>70907405
Yes because all money we have been spending has not been from the war saving the us has. Which are only granted when we officially declare war, which we havent done yet.
So shut up you useless country and try not to fucked over in the next war.
>>70905810
Short story:
You drank the trickle-down-economics-kool-aid. If the taste didn't give it away let me clue you in: It's bullshit.
If they want to throw crybaby tantrums when they don't get there way: Let them leave. I wager most of them do not, cannot, or would not for one of many reasons.
Also I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Think of it more like burning down an old forest to enrich the soil so that new growth may flourish. America has stagnated, it's time for a change alreadd.
College shouldn't be free
But shouldn't it be more subsidized than what it is now?
In the '50's, it wasn't free, but you could work over the summer and you could pay your way through school.
Now it's crazy expensive.
The way I see it, America should be investing in it's people to become retain our super power status.
Like Trump said, we don't win anymore.
We pay the most in the world for border line 3rd world country education in our public schools, and get raped in the ass for College bills.
I don't support that faggot Bernie, and I'm voting for Trump. I'm writing a letter to Trump now trying to persuade him to allocate more funds into INVESTING in America again to make it great again.
>>70891320
Protip: You don't get personal say in how your tax dollars get spent. Nobody really does. Fact of life you fucking thinskinned trumpfag.
