Could there ever be a truly socialist revolution amywhere in the near future?
I'm sick of just being a radical on the sidelines, with everyone around me telling me it'll "never happen". And then you've got Bernie Sanders running around spouting off what he calls "Democratic Socialism" when he hasn't said anything about workers ownership owning the means of production, and wants everyone to remain slaves of wage labour.
You won't find a single party in the USA wanting true socialism. All they want is "free" healthcare while the middle class remains slaves to the rich fascists, and our "Democratic" party claims to be left wong while they're hardly even welfare capitalists.
When will people wake up?
>>70868148
There has been in recent years. The problem is that now everyone knows how much of a failure those policies are and how much death they are responsible.
Before they could kind of argue that it COULD work, but now everyone just laughs at people advocating communism/socialism
>>70868480
Examples of TRUE socialism that has failed? From what i've seen they've only been socialist in name while just being another form of fascism like we have here
>>70868855
>inb4 flood of LE NO TROO SGOTSMAN
>>70868148
no
fuck off back to your safe space over at reddit you immature, uneducated faggot
>>70868148
You could try it in an African country. Those dumb nigs are pretty easy to trick.
>>70868855
Yugoslavia. Kibutzim communities in Israel.
>>70868148
The old left is pretty much toast at this point, done in by identity politics and Oppression Olympics.
It's a pity, and I say this as someone who hates socialism with a passion. Die hard tankies were at least intellectually honest and spartan instead of these limp wristed decadent faggots.
>>70870221
I feel like that even though Bernie is using the word wrong, his campaign will bring about a widespread movement supporting socialism. The old left will come back.
>>70869849
yugoslavia fell because idiots came to rule after tito died
>>70870221
It seems as if debate used to be more principled and philosophical with the old left and right. What we have now amounts to people just screaming buzzwords and talking about things they don't understand
I wish we could rise up and take back our place as the Worker's Party instead of the Fat Hair Dye Jigaboo Party but the Red Scares put an end to that
>>70871255
American politics is all right wing. They debate left and right, but it's all right while they argue over shit like immigration and social issues while all remaining on the same rightwing platform. It makes me sick.
>>70868148
>Could there ever be a truly socialist revolution amywhere in the near future?
Yes.
It would have to involve workers being faced with a choice of "either take control over the economy and means of production for yourselves or starve" but in that situation it can happen pretty quickly. Orwell said society is only ever 2 missed meals away from revolution.
And there's nothing wrong with Bernie Sanders. The emergence of a strong and vocal Social Democratic current in American politics is long overdue and will have a potentialy crucial impact on class struggle on an international level. The current polling suggests that on economic issues this is the most left-wing demographic cohort ever seen in American history. The same is true to an extent in Europe, but with more mixed results with regards to social liberalism. The current political establishment has, at best, 1 election cycle after the current one left before it is swept away. Conservatives know this - read about "the long depression of Frank Luntz" and how the mixture of increased left-wing views amongst the young and the decline of the white racist 65+ group is going to change things. In such a situation, revolution is not even necessary, you can adopt a more Fabian strategy, where socialism will fall into your lap like a ripe apple obeying the laws of political gravity.
Marx always believed that you had to have socialism in the core countries, in particular Britain and America, rather than the periphery, since that was were capitalism was at it's most advanced state of development. Capitalism is coming up against it's most sustained internal contradictions since the pre world war one world, and besides race war and genocide against muslims the right has few issues with which it can mobilise supporters to defend the oligarchy, leaving them strategically weaker than at any time in my lifetime.
>>70871768
>the long depression of Frank Luntz
Sorry I meant "the agony of Frank Luntz"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/01/the-agony-of-frank-luntz/282766/
>>70871768
I'm actually a Sanders supporter but I just wish he were farther left, or would use the right terms to describe his ideals
>>70871768
And yet I'm still voting Trump because he'll damage corporations much more and greatly reduce American exploitation of third world labor by removing the incentive, while bringing power back to workers in the form of jobs. All Bernie wants to do is make them pay more, which isn't going to end the bullshit. It'll just make them move it somewhere else
Because Marxism fucks it up
>>70870898
I'd have more respect for the man if he were up there shouting about the means of production rather than standing aside silently while an apologist for criminals takes the mic.
I don't think Bernie is old left at all, at most he's a lukewarm DemSoc welfare state advocate that would be pretty damn centrist in most western Euro states.
>>70871989
Bernie Sanders is a soft social democrat, someone who would be very comfortable on the centrist wing of the British Labour party for instance, but what he's doing with the current Democratic primary is nothing short of fucking heroic. It's the most sustained challenge the left-wing of the establishment has ever faced. It has people with money deeply worried.
No, he's doing just fine. Any further to the left he would scare people off. This is something that requires tactical skill. He needs to box clever, not go in there throwing bombs from the opening bell. Time is on his side, he doesn't need to force the issue.
Another thing that's good is because he's framing his politics is traditional class-based terms, rich vs poor, the people vs the oligarchs etc, he's drawn a very clear line between himself and the Clinton supporting liberals who have fully taken on board the language of post-class intersectional identity politics (what you people call SJW's) so that now SJW politics is reduced to a) something right-wingers cry about a lot and b) something Clintonite liberals use as a way of attacking working-class political movements and progressive demands. To me, as a marxist, this is a positive development.
>>70872150
I agree that Trump would do far more damage to American capitalism than Sanders, but I don't think it would necessarily lead to any sort of socialist or even progressive change, and I don't think it's a given Trump would bring back power to American workers.
However Trump is by far the best of the republican candidates, and I think a Trump - Sanders election would be the very best option. It would be the first election in my lifetime where two genuine populists, who represented the interests of the people (both right and left) not the elite, where competing for power, and that would be a good thing for American democracy.
>>70872651
>he's a lukewarm DemSoc welfare state advocate that would be pretty damn centrist in most western Euro states.
He is - the thing is though in the current United States, someone like that would post an existential threat to the current economic model, they would pose an existential threat to the power and influence of wall street, to the military-industrial complex.
Standing on the street corner and preaching revolution - those in charge aren't scared of you doing that. What they're scared of is you getting relatable demands, that can be understood by the majority of people not just a handful of your university pals, that is capable of winning massive grassroots support. That is what frightens them.
