>he died so all your sins would be forgiven
honestly is this supposed to be a big deal? my grandma seems to think that this is somehow proof of JCs benevolence. i dont think it's that special though. i think if given the choice to die for such a noble cause most people would do it in a heartbeat. fucking hell, probably 99% of premature deaths happen for no reason at all. i bet everyone would like to have their death mean something if they could. plus nobody can even fact check JCs claim that he has in fact forgiven everyone's sins. am i missing something here? is there anyone that WOULDNT die for all the world's sins to be forgiven?
>>70753985
yeah but he didn't do it to be a superhero who had all sins forgiven
>>70753985
Plus you're already God anyway, so what's the big deal?
My mom thinks like your grandma. Unfortunately I think it betrays them as not very bright or decent.
did you read about HOW he died
>>70754056
i understand it was an altruistic act. i just doubt many people would not sacrifice themselves for such a noble cause. especially when presented with the fact that the alternative is choking to death on a tomato or something similarly meaningless.
>>70753985
He's the King of the universe. He choosed a humble life full of pain an torture. Not for personal gain but out of love. To reunite with his rebelling children.
>is there anyone that WOULDNT die for all the world's sins to be forgiven?
Are you seriously this oblivious to ego and selfishness in the world?
>>70754388
i get it. but many people have gruesome deaths knowing their death means absolutely nothing. if you could be sure that your death would bring positive change to the world you would probably endure a day or two of torture.
>>70754890
What's stopping you? There is still evil in the world and causes to fight for? You just cling to the big martyr gesture to feed your ego not to actually change things
>>70754822
A christian talking about obliviousness, the whole story doesn't make sense, god could have prevented bad people from doing bad stuff,he knows everything,right? Why would god create people who will do harm to others?
>>70754890
>What's stopping you?
the fact that im certain my death would mean nothing
>You just cling to the big martyr gesture to feed your ego not to actually change things
has nothing to do with my ego. like i said, if given the proposition i believe most people would make the same choice JC did.
>>70753985
Why didn't God just say all our sins were forgiven...?
He had his son die on the cross but that didn't really matter because he just went back to God again.
>>70755489
>Why would god create people who will do harm to others?
Free will
>>70755489
Works in mysterious ways lol.
>>70755773
but if you use your free will he punishes you?
>>70753985
It's a big deal because sacrificial blood magic is very real and powerful, and because God cucked Satan when Jesus was resurrected.
>>70755585
>the fact that im certain my death would mean nothing
>most people would make the same choice JC did
But they aren't and you aren't. That's why I emphasized the big martyr gesture. Which isn't the point. Most people would do it as the easy way out to convince themselves how great they are. Jesus is about complete rejection of the ego. Giving your everything to others to improve the world. You need to remember we are talking about the literal Godcreator of the universe here. He could have choosen an eternal life full of slaves and servants catering to his every wish and need. Just look at how gigantic the universe is to get a small grasp of his power. And what did he use that power for? Washing the feet of the man who sold him for 30 bucks? Granting redemption to the poor, the weak, the persecuted. Not because it means something to him (since he can create endless followers in a heartbeat) but because it means something to them. If you really say you can or would choose to live like Jesus you have the chance everyday. Would you still take it if it wasn't quick but a long life of service without recogniiton or glory?
>>70755731
>>70755906
Sin impures the soul. It's a separation from God. He doesn't punish you it's just a consequence of sin
>>70756366
If he didn't give us free will then we wouldn't be able to sin, so we wouldn't be separated from God.
Either way it all seems pretty pointless.
>>70753985
Would you go to prison and let all the inmates rape you and then stab you to death so they could be released afterwards?
>>70756564
And we couldn't choose to come back to him in free will
>>70753985
His physical death and torture was nothing.
It was taking upon himself all the wrath the Father had against all the sin in the world that was tormentous.
We can not even begin to imagine what that was like.
>>70756781
then why did he separate us?
>>70756564
In Christianity, God didn't give Man free will, Man stole it from him by eating the fruit of knowledge.
I think.
>>70756851
He didn't Adam did and we do ourselves
>>70755906
He forgives you, so long as you accept all humans are sinners.
>>70756899
que? man would need free will to disobey god and eat the fruit in the first place
>>70755731
Because God is just, and sin is antithetical to his exsistance.
>>70753985
>It ain't right I wasn't there because if I had of been there I would of known
>>70756946
If God didn't put the stupid tree in the garden how could Adam disobey him?
>>70756899
If they didn't have free will how could they disobey God?
>>70756973
Then what is the point of not sinning.
>>70757139
What does that have to do with anything.
>>70757298
It's not the tree it's him disobeying God's order
Reading all these explanations to Christian beliefs is giving me aspergers. What a stupid fucking religion. Even Islam makes more sense than this
>>70757407
Ok so God creates rules for us to break, and if we break the rules he made we are sinning, and if we sin god doesn't punish us, but we are separated from God by sinning, and being separated from God is a consequence of breaking his rules...
How is that not a punishment for breaking God's rules?
>>70753985
>>he died so all your sins would be forgiven
He died because he was some candy ass pacifist, not a good stance for a heretic to take.
>>70757758
>How is that not a punishment for breaking God's rules?
Because it's a natural consequence. God doesn't decide to fuck you up for sinning you reject him.
>>70757874
That's why Muhammad was based. He was pacifist and spreading Jesus' message until he was exiled from Mecca. Then with the polytheists waging war against him they fought back and won.
>>70757959
>Don't eat that apple Adam.
*eats apple*
>Ok I am kicking you out of the Garden.
That is a punishment.
I don't even think this is an argument about Christianity, you just don't know what a punishment is.
>>70758350
Because heaven is perfect. There can be no sin there so if you sin you separate yourself from that other world. It is an analogy to explain something inexplicable to humans
>>70758619
Being separated from God is what God decided what would happen for breaking his rules.
Sin is defined by God, unless you are trying to tell me having a cock in your ass as a man prevents you from entering God's kingdom because of some universal law that wasn't made up by God.
Also in the bible God directly punished people for not listening to him all the time, Jonah got eaten by a fish, Sodom and Gomorrah got wiped out in fire, the lady turned to salt for turning around, the Jews wandered for 40 years, etc.
did nothing wrong
>>70753985
Jesus is the antichrist, not the other way arround.
>oooh, turn the other cheek
>oooh, forgive thy enemies
>oooh be a pussy
>and don't fuck
>>70758087
Don't particularly care for Muslims, but they did do some things right gotta admit
>>70759124
>Being separated from God is what God decided what would happen for breaking his rules.
You have it the other way round. When man rebelled against God and separating himself from heaven God wasn't willing to let us condemn ourself and prepared the coming of Jesus Christ to redemn the sinners. That is not a punishment
>Behaving like a pussy is holy
>German Cuck shilling for Christianity
Germans truly have been cucked.
Kek I love this meme that out of the thousands of religions in the world, Christianity is the correct one.
He died because he was a martyr whos mom needed an excuse for getting knocked up out of wedlock and was able to start the biggest cult of all time literally nothing more
Orthodox Christianity:
God did not deny Tree of Knowledge because He wanted to keep Adam and Eve from it, but because He thought they were too "young" spiritually to bear it (by spending time with Him in the Garden of Eden they would eventually mature enough to be able to handle it)
After they tasted it, He expelled them, not because He was angry and vengeful but because he wanted to protect them from eating from the Tree of Life and become eternally separated in torturous existence without God, like a father protecting his child from burning itself on a fire.
Human flesh that we gained took the blows of Death protecting us from eternal damnation of our uncontrolled passions, but as Jesus took on this flesh and trampled Death with death, He showed us the way that we can follow to master our passions and be happy in the presence of God again.
nothing wrong
>>70760135
You completely ignored the direct punishments carried out by God I cited and are just repeating your opinion.
Also now if God will bring us back into the fold and forgive us what is the point of not sinning?
Why did Jesus need to die to repent our sins? None of this makes sense and seems completely arbitrary.
>>70760643
>Also now if God will bring us back into the fold and forgive us what is the point of not sinning?
He will forgive if you repent. This includes understanding what you did was wrong and why. It also includes wanting not to sin again. You can't bribe yourself into heaven.
>You completely ignored the direct punishments carried out by God I cited and are just repeating your opinion.
No I'm not sure about this and didn't want to talk shit just to look like having an answer. You should ask a church official
>In Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World, Girard discusses for the first time Christianity and the Bible. The Gospels ostensibly present themselves as a typical mythical account, with a victim-god lynched by a unanimous crowd, an event that is then commemorated by Christians through ritual sacrifice — a material re-presentation in this case — in the Eucharist. The parallel is perfect except for one detail: the truth of the innocence of the victim is proclaimed by the text and the writer. The mythical account is usually built on the lie of the guilt of the victim inasmuch as it is an account of the event seen from the viewpoint of the anonymous lynchers. This ignorance is indispensable to the efficacy of the sacrificial violence.[citation needed]
>The evangelical "good news" clearly affirms the innocence of the victim, thus becoming, by attacking ignorance, the germ of the destruction of the sacrificial order on which rests the equilibrium of societies. Already the Old Testament shows this turning inside-out of the mythic accounts with regard to the innocence of the victims (Abel, Joseph, Job…), and the Hebrews were conscious of the uniqueness of their religious tradition. With the Gospels, it is with full clarity that are unveiled these "things hidden since the foundation of the world" (Matthew 13:35), the foundation of social order on murder, described in all its repulsive ugliness in the account of the Passion.[citation needed]
>>70761078
>You should ask a church official
Maybe you should since you accept Christianity as the answer.
>He will forgive if you repent. This includes understanding what you did was wrong and why. It also includes wanting not to sin again.
Ok, so if God has the power to forgive my sins obviously being separated from God isn't a natural consequence of sin since he has the power to decide whether or not I am forgiven, and at any time can perform a blood sacrifice on his son that can come back to life to forgive sin.
The logic of this isn't connecting.
>>70755489
Well, of course, the whole book is suppose to explain why there are bad people and how to be a good person as understood by a Semitic tribe millennia ago.
You can't just have God not let people be bad because whence comes bad people then?
nothing wrong
>>70753985
You're forgetting the part where he died, was sent to hell, and then, because he's god, experienced what amounts to an eternity in hell, then left, for your sins.
>>70761959
>Maybe you should since you accept Christianity as the answer.
I will. I will have difficulties reporting back to you then tough
>Ok, so if God has the power to forgive my sins obviously being separated from God isn't a natural consequence of sin since he has the power to decide whether or not I am forgiven, and at any time can perform a blood sacrifice on his son that can come back to life to forgive sin.
>The logic of this isn't connecting.
He fogives you comitting sins. Sins still bring suffering, and evil into the world. They are a misuse of what you are designed to do. They hurt you not God.
>>70762734
there's probably something online that will let you chat with someone right now
nothing wrong
>>70756899
anyone interested in free will should read this:
http://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html
>>70763604
Done. It's not a live chat though so I don't know when they will reply
Will bump a bit with Mary pics
>>70757874
>>70758087
>>70760001
t. Sandniggers
>>70764286
can you give a quick summary?
>>70759629
>>70760225
The only reason you fucking Spics even accomplished anything was because to Christianity and the Reconquista.
>>70764795
>>70760439
Says the kike.
>>70753985
Being dead for 3 days and coming back from the dead. Is a big deal.
Predicting that it would happen, being killed by experts in front of many witnesses, on a hill, by the biggest city in the area. Is an even bigger deal.
>>70753985
I died to absolve you of something my dad created.
>>70753985
It wasn't just a benevolent act. God Became man to atone for the evil that man had done, and allow them to attain salvation, which only he could do, because only the sacrifice of God could be significant enough.
>>70754378
It only proves that you have a superficial understanding of Christianity.
>>70756242
Amen brother, he also said don't throw you're pearls to pigs though, we still need to banish Muslims from Europe. I doubt God likes a cuck
>>70765514
Man created sin, not God.
>>70760439
Filthy Jew detected.
>>70765667
So jesus died to save man from sin that man created, even though god created man?
So god made man, and man made sin, so god made sin too.
>>70765629
Yeah. Just don't buy into the lefts or right's dichotomy that you can't treat them good without submitting to them.
>>70765813
Man created sin by disobeying the laws of God.
>If there were no laws, then there would be no criminals.
>>70765813
Then who created god
>>70766014
If god made man who created sin, then god's creation is not perfect, and thus god can't be perfect. if god ain't perfect, he doesn't exist family.
He didn't just die for the sins, he took the burden of every sin in existence onto himself and was severed from god for the duration of the proceeding.
>>70753985
Jesus is for the Jews.
>>70765923
I hear you but Islam is a death cult that will not stop unless stopped by force, we are living in Satan's matrix after all this isn't the garden of Eden.
>>70766220
> took the burden of every sin in existence
So Jesus took the burden of every sin, the concept of sin being invented by God himself? He invented sin then sacrificed his son for his own inventions (man and sin). Totally logical.
>>70766014
>>If there were no laws, then there would be no criminals.
nyc just got rid of public urination laws because it was putting too many niggers in jail.
>>70766365
Jews hate Jesus you pleb
>>70753985
i think you meant daddy
> pic related its daddy
>>70766117
Creation was perfect. Man exercised his free will poorly. The problem is man, not God.
>>70766389
To sin is to act against god. God did not invent sin, the only way it could not have come to be is if he never did anything, ever.
>>70766389
You're being obtuse. Man created sin by disobedience.
>>70755489
im no christian but "god could have prevented bad people from doing bad stuff,he knows everything,right?" is the most stupid fucking argument ever. no one really wants to live in a utopia you dumb fucking cunt. IF THERE IS A GOD THEN WHY IS THE WORLD NOT TOTALLY PERFECT AND ERRORLESS? it's about a guide getting through error you fucking idiot
>>70766021
>Then who created god
that's between god and his creator. we dont want to piss off our god by trying to please his god. i've tried this before and made my boss look like an idiot to our director. not a good move on my part. best to just follow the pecking order.
>>70766497
Daddy is a horrible analogy for Hitler. Don't just try to copycat Milo. Hitler was the leader. The determined guy who makes you want to improve yourself. He never showed dad-ish characteristics
>>70753985
He sacrificed himself for your shitty "life"
Thats why its such a powerful story, because the literal son of god gave his life for our worthless asses.
You dont need to see a priest though, just acknowledge the fact that your a worthless piece of shit who doesnt deserve life. Thats it
In buddhism they say basically the same thing: everything is for nothing. Its just a more acceptable way of saying you are shit, your life is shit, your memories are shit, your legacy is worth shit. Because buddha never asked to be followed, nor did jesus. They both looked down on idolatry.
Its truth that atheists claim to acccept yet they cling dearly to the here and now. If you are truly above fear then you shouldnt even be on this board.
>>70766620
Creating people without giving them the knowledge of good or evil and then putting temptation in front of them and a lying serpent near them is hardly perfect
>>70766857
>Jehovah has a god
Oh my goodness
>>70766702
If man can create the entire existence of sin, then he's even more powerful than god, since god had to kill his son just to pay for all our sins! It makes no sense whatsoever.
>>70765628
>No true scotsman
>My understanding is greater than yours
>Stop attacking my misguided beliefs
>>70767168
Its always fun to manipulate christians into saying god can't do something. A lot of fundamental christian ideas stop making sense if you remember god is supposed to be all powerful and all loving
>>70767106
The tree was a test of obedience. The serpent had been corrupted by Satan.
>>70767168
Because you have trouble understanding things.
God establishes the law.
Man violates law.
God creates a system of sacrificial atonement for man to make up for his sins.
Eventually, God becomes man and sacrifices himself to atone for the original sin and fulfill his own laws.
>>70767469
You don't seem to have a basic grasp of foundational Christian concepts.
>>70767531
We were all fifteen once. You'll grow out of it.
>>70767135
this is all a simulation anyways so we really shouldnt waste too much time worrying about whom created who.
>>70753985
It means you have a fucking chance to go to Heaven you dummy.
>>70767793
But I thought knowledge equaled power?
>>70769207
Are you referring to the fact that we as a species live in darkness with short mortal lives lacking any real meaning as we destroy our planet and strive to push ourselves away from nature to pursue our own selfish morals?
Added with the fact that when we die, all we did in the time of our lives was completely irrelevant and amounted to nothing, and only a few black sheep of the human race are lacking in the blissful ignorance of the masses?
>>70767742
The christ story doesn't even make sense other than being emotionally persuasive. Sacrificing himself for the sins of everyone is just showboating when he had the power to just save everyone as soon as the fall occurred
>>70767663
Sorry, omnipotent beings don't get to fuck up and then claim "it was just a test"
>>70768249
Not sure why that was deleted. That was rather moving. Thanks for sharing anon.
>>70770094
what was it?
>>70769891
>>70770024
>Here God is how you SHOULD have done it
>>70770380
You can't see the post still?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=LLPjAClbJln36S6bz7tfcOkg&v=ssf7P-Sgcrk
>>70770483
I don't have to start with the assumption that you are correct. Its easy to see that the ways god went about doing things in christian mythology aren't the brilliant solutions you would expect from an omnipotent being.
>>70770483
An omnipotent being has no need to test someone because he already knows what the results would be
>>70753985
>Caesar Borgia died for your sins
no he didnt
>>70770491
it was this video? unfortunately i dont have the patience for this type of stuff.
>>70753985
Can christfag answer me this:
If Jesus was God, and not God's son, why did he pray to himself?
>>70770858
Perhaps there is a lesson in the stories that have greater impact than simply saving everyone or whatever you claim an omnipotent being should do.
>>70770858
>Its easy to see that the ways god went about doing things in christian mythology aren't the brilliant solutions you would expect from an omnipotent being.
They actually are exactly that
>>70771052
Glad we agree
>>70771261
>If Jesus was God, and not God's son
He is both
>>70771488
wut?
Still, why did he pray to him(self)?
as if /pol/ would worship this jew
Religion may have been a necessary evil, and it may continue to be
If you realize the stories are apocryphal, they can be valuable
>>70771584
The son was praying to the father
>>70771412
Can God create a mass that he cannot accelerate?
>>70771835
Are you 15?
>>70766721
>no one really wants to live in a utopia you dumb fucking cunt
>every person's dream is to win the lottery and live a care free life
>one would say, to live in a utopia
>>70771663
>reconstruction of some random skull from the Levant
>LOOK GUYS! IT'S JESUS! IT'S LITERALLY JESUS! They (REAL scientists) picked up a skull in the middle east and told me that it was what Jesus looked like. LMAO you religitards are incapable of critical thought.
>>70771714
i think religion provides a foundation for order and stability and community. i blame the rise of secularism with the rise in globalism and transgender bathroom privileges.
>>70771326
If god truly loves and wants to save everyone, there is nothing stopping him from doing so but himself
>>70753985
If satan punishes those who do bad, wouldn't that make him kinda good? What has Saran done besides do his own thing and get God butthurt that was so bad for humanity?
>>70772456
And sin. You still haven't grasped tht whole free will thing right?
>>70772626
You should stop consuming entertainment pandering to edgy teenagers. You're too old for this cringey shit
>>70772902
You should stop worshipping Bronze Age fairy tales. There's a reason why the Churches are empty and the mosques are full
>>70773073
The reason is kids getting slapped by their parents if they don't go you cúckold
Stop projecting your inferiority complex on Christians/Europeans. It's getting annoying
>>70773366
Nah the reason is people see modern day Christianity as the irrelevant, hypocritical piece of shit it is. At least Muslims follow their bullshit text literally. You Christians just pick and choose the passages you want and it's inconsistent as fuck. Christians are cucks. Go help some niggers in Africa or something
>>70770024
But it was man's mistake. Man was given a choice, and failed. Why should God stop man from making mistakes.
>>70773559
The west weakens as Christianity weakens. Why should I care what modern plebs think?
