Can any Leftists/Bernie supporters please explain this shit to me?
>Pro $15 Minimum wage
>Illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay in America
Please explain to me how the fuck you can legalize a bunch of low-skill third-world workers, pay them all $15 an hour, all while raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour for everybody across the board.
Econ 101: If you flood the market with excess labor, the price of labor drops. You are simultaneously trying to flood the market with more labor than is currently demanded, while artificially raising the price of that labor.
How in the fuck do you not see that these two positions are diametrically opposed to each other? You can't expect the price of labor to rise if you flood the market with even more labor, and simultaneously, you can't expect a positive economic outcome by trying to artificially set the hourly rate higher than the market is willing to pay. By legalizing all the illegal immigrants, you are effectively causing the value of labor to drop across the board, and by raising the wage to $15, you are forcing the market to pay a higher wage than what they are actually worth. This means less job opportunities as a whole for poor people.
How can you honestly not see this shit? There are huge problems with both of these stances on their own, but combining both of them into the same political platform is contradictory and absolutely insane.
Prove me wrong, pro tip you can't.
pls responb
>>70655772
i'm waiting, OP
>>70656609
No honest leftists here I guess. I'm still waiting too.
>>70655339
This is all the explanation required
>>70657268
They are like dogs chasing cars... once they catch up to the car they are just going to get run over.
Absolutely no understanding of economics and base their political beliefs off of emotions.
I know the Bernie shills and shitposters are out there, you shitpost in every fucking thread on this board, I've made a solid argument, if you can't make a solid case for why you support this bullshit, then you prove my point.
>>70655339
America is wealthy enough to pay $15 an hour to everyone who is in the country. It simply takes less wasteful spending on military misadventures to make this happen. This in turn will boost consumer spending and consumer confidence, which will help create a new cycle of economic prosperity for everyone. And society is less fucked up in general if there's less poverty (better health outcomes, lower incarceration rates, less spending on pointless policing). It's a really good policy move, anon. It's also getting more like what happens in a thriving country like Australia, which was able to avoid the crash of 2008 because people are paid better and don't just live off shaky credit.
>>70657877
why not make the minimum wage $1000 an hour with that logic?
>>70657839
m8 they're all at school right now
>>70657877
>America is wealthy enough to pay $15
Your premise is wrong from the start, not every small business and startup is wealthy enough to pay $15 an hour. The vast majority of jobs are small companies. I work for a small company, and a $15 minimum wage would tank our business. If you think that every business in the world is as successful as Wal-Mart or Google, and they just choose not to pay $15 because they are greedy, you need a reality check. Not every business is created equal. If you want places that can afford to pay more to do so, protest, boycott it, convince other people to sign petitions and all that gay shit. Companies are made or broken by public perception.
You can't legalize 10-30 million low-skill illegal immigrants without the value of labor to plummet in a giant rippling effect across the country, and when that happens, if you raise the minimum wage to $15, far less companies are going to be hiring. It's economics 101, how can you not grasp this?
>>70658115
Make is something affordable for the nation but also something that alleviates poverty and creates more all round happiness. It's simple, anon! What's your reason for wanting to see other anons get exploited and paid shit to do miserable work like flipping burgers? The US has way too many McJobs because wages are too low. Get rid of super low wages and a lot of the worst jobs will vanish too.
>>70655339
http://www.budget.senate.gov/democratic/public/index.cfm/2015/7/top-economists-are-backing-sen-bernie-sanders-on-establishing-a-15-an-hour-minimum-wage
>>70658600
We already have a job shortage in this country, you expect that by raising the minimum wage to $15, the amount of jobs available to the masses will increase? Also, you think that by legalizing all the millions and millions of low-skill, illegal immigrants, more jobs will be available to the masses? We aren't even talking about good paying, quality jobs. We are talking about jobs PERIOD.
>>70658480
Some small businesses shouldn't exist because they don't have a viable business model. The US needs to depopulate in some of the buttfuck rural areas where there's no good reason for so many people to be living. It works just fine in Australia. It also creates incentives for businesses to improve efficiency and upgrade technology, which helps the economy all round. The US can simply put in place a proper welfare safety net funded by money not spent in Syria and Afghanistan. Problem solved!!
Except for low-paid butthurt faggots in rural areas who want to blame someone for why their lives suck so much, so they want to blame immigrants and Muslims.
>>70659041
>proper welfare safety net
Yeah that welfare has really helped the black community, the people leftists claim to love and support, by tearing apart the black family and creating pockets of poverty, and decreasing economic incentive for entrepreneurship, hard work, and education.
Go look at Detroit, Baltimore, and of these "pockets of poverty", you'll see a school board full of democrats, a city council full of democrats, a democrat mayor, democrat police chief, democrats top to bottom, all running these failing cities, and your answer is to double down on it?
>>70659041
is this a ruse?
>>70655339
that's pretty impressive a guy his size can do that
>>70659425
you'd be surprised what muscles can do, most fats just don't stretch and excersise enough, look up fat contortionists when you can
>>70659041
Almost had me you fucking nigger.
>>70659604
Even if that's bait, there are literally people out there who truly believe what that guy said
>>70660019
It has to be, you can't possibly say that the U.S. has to depopulate when we've had a slow growth rate while advocating for immigration legal or not; knowing full well people from poorer countries breed enormously faster than native populations of richer countries.
>>70659604
You're a faggot too and I'm actually from Australia and currently am in NYC. Seriously, the US needs a higher minimum wage so it's more like other Western developed countries and so more of the populace is happy instead of now when they're on the verge of electing reactionary nutcases because so many people are so miserable and poor.
>>70660454
>I'm actually from Australia
>Australia
Saged.
>>70660454
I'll take the bait purely for the discussion.
The main topic I am bringing up is how Bernie faggots and leftists in general think that legalizing 10-30 million more low-skill workers AND bringing the minimum wage up to $15 an hour is a good idea, that this isn't going to significantly decrease their chances of finding employment. I want you, or people like you, to respond to this.
>>70657877
>America is wealthy enough to pay $15 an hour to everyone who is in the country. It simply takes less wasteful spending on military misadventures to make this happen.
But thats complete bullshit. While the govt does pay govt workers salaries, the vast majority of jobs come from the private sector. Most PS jobs are not huge businesses either, which will hurt them less.
Forcing small and medium businesses to pay $15 an hr min wage will destroy them hovever.
>>70660925
The US is currently the wealthiest country that history has ever known. There has never been a higher GDP, even when adjusted for inflation. I think if less money is waster -- mostly on military stupidity, contracts for mates in Halliburton, unnecessary foreign aid, and bailing out Wall Street, then there will be plenty left over. I honestly haven't done the sums, but if US military spending is halved then no one in the US would need to live in poverty (I've seen that as a real statistic somewhere). Businesses will adjust in scale to match the minimum wage, just like they do in Denmark and Australia and other countries were people are actually happy.
>>70655339
Hi, leftist here. You're correct and this is why I stopped supporting Bernie.
I think an increase in minimum wage would be fantastic but it needs to be accompanied by lower corporate tax and strict immigration control. Too bad the Dems don't have the balls to do it.
>>70661450
You still aren't answering my question. I asked you why leftists think that illegal immigrants should be given legal citizenship while SIMULTANEOUSLY raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, these two positions are diametrically opposed to stupid spoiled millennials finding jobs.
>>70661947
I think that illegal immigrants currently in the US should be made legitimate because their labor is clearly needed. You just have to look at how much kitchen work, gardening and landscaping work, gas station work, and other manual labor is done by these people. Pay them properly and then try to regulate future immigration a bit better. The US can easily afford to pay for higher wages for 30 million people and higher wages for the rest of American citizens. I don't see why it's such a big deal, except that it will produce some change and will lead to red necks in trailer parks getting mad at all the immigrants for taking their jobs.
>>70661947
I'll answer it for you. I doubt anyone who has read an econ textbook thinks it's the right thing for our economy. They support it because it's oh so enlightened and progressive without considering economy. Some of course may believe it would be good for the economy but they'd be wrong.
It's basically the left-wing version of the Republican True Conservative™ shit--they don't support it because it's a good policy but because it's liberal.
>>70658600
You type and spell exceptionally well for a toddler.
>>70662341
I know this is bait, but I'm responding anyway because I know there are people out there who actually believe what you just wrote.
The US is not a person. We live inside of the US. Some people can afford to pay certain wages and others can't. If I'm the manager of a burger joint, I need 10 employees to run it, need to pay them all $15 an hour each, that's $150 per hour I need to pay just on wages alone, on top of my own pay, the overhead, the cost of the ingredients, repairs to the equipment, the building, taxes, you will start to see how many burgers you need to sell per hour just to break even, and it's not feasible for many businesses. Pumping the market full of newly legalized, low-skill workers and being forced to pay $15 minimum wage would make make many businesses be forced to close down, they would hemorrhage money. This means less job opportunities for poor people. Even with the minimum wage at where it is right now, there are not enough jobs to go around for the poor, you would effectively close even more doors for the poor to climb out of poverty. And don't give me the "welfare" shit anymore, welfare has absolutely destroyed the black community, let's not double-down on that mistake.
>>70655339
>>70661662
I am also a leftist. I'm in favor of open borders, for libertarian and economic reasons. But you are correct a price floor on wages is a dumb idea.
I'm in favor of welfare, but I have no idea why we should force only certain businesses with high low-skilled labor costs to pay for it. Just tax rich people like wealth redistribution is supposed to do.
>>70663616
And you don't think that the mega-rich would just move to a different country which has more competitive taxes and business incentives? Wouldn't the rich fleeing en mass be detrimental to the country?
>>70664194
we would just prevent them from leaving with their money ;))))
>>70664516
By violating their rights?
>>70658920
Actual novel prize winning economists know the minimum wage is a sham and the lower it is the better.
>>70664194
Where are they going to go? Scandinavia? The us tax rate is pretty low in comparison to most places anyone would want to live.
