I don't understand how people can disagree with this. This subject trancends the domain of mundane opinion.
By claming that the fetus isn't human, the pro-abortion cucks are trying to avoid the harsh truth that they are, in fact, commiting murder. But I'm not even going to go into whether the fetus is human or not; in any case, it has the potential to become human and that alone should be enough to earn it the right to live. Potential is something we Occidentals have always believed in: the potential to become great, to become someone people can respect.
It is utterly disgusting that certain people cut off an authentic being's chance at becoming fully human and experiencing life just because it is unwanted. Learning to live with their mistake should be their path to follow, but modern medicine is giving them an easy exit.
>>70608266
Every load of cum I wipe away and toss in the trash also has the possibility to become a human being, does that make me a serial killer?
Your argument is shit and so is your bullshit ideology.
>>70608266
>it has the potential to become human and that alone should be enough to earn it the right to live.
a zygote has the potential to become a fetus
a sperm has the potential to become a zygote
a protein has the potential to become a sperm
Your logic is retarded. Potential is only that, potential.
Feel free to respond with greentext and reaction faces.
>>70608378
It's completely different you dumb burger, the fetus is already a living thing (or at least becoming one), your sperm is just genetic material.
>>70608266
it's the woman's body you dip
>>70608378
>Fertilized egg: Will grow into baby if not intentionally killed.
>Sperm: Will not grow into baby even if raised with great care.
Are you actually retarded or do you just post that way?
>>70608469
>the fetus is already a living thing
every cell in your body, sperm included, meet the definition for "living thing"
Did you pass grade 10 biology?
I don't know anything about abortion itself, but it's people like you I don't understand. Or more precisely that I fucking despise.
If you think abortion is murder, That there are literal baby killing factories, Why the hell are you sitting there typing something? Why are you not leaping out of your chair to deal with the issue? Again, I know that I don't know enough to say either way, but if you think there are child murders why are you not stopping it you pathetic sack of shit?
>>70608469
A fetus is just genetic material as well you stupid fucking jungle spic, or does biology not translate well into your retarded bastardized version of Spanish?
>>70608509
>Fertilized egg: Will grow into baby if not intentionally killed.
What if there is a miscarriage?
What if the mother contracts a disease?
What if the mother starves to death?
None of these things are intentional. Your logic is moronic.
>>70608378
>Every load of cum I wipe away and toss in the trash also has the possibility to become a human being
Not really, you'd have to find a willing female partner (or at least one that couldn't outrun you) for this to be true, Amerifat.
>>70608266
anyone who has been in the room for an abortion, who isnt making money off of it, will aggree. people should have to live with their mistakes, there are to many forms of contraceptives for abortions to be as common as they are.
>>70608266
assuming you are right what do you intend to do about it? Do you think making it illegal will stop it? Where do you draw the line? What if a woman keeps drinking or starving herself? You going to tie her to a hospital bed and force feed her? Really what is your plan for ending abortion I want to know? Infanticide has been practiced by humans since pre history. All animals do it.
>>70608420
Nice way of thinking. Very binary, I like that.
There's another way to look at it though; let me ask you a question, which one of these has the most potential to become human? I mean, sure, a sperm has the potential to become human. But a fetus is in the process of becoming human, you dummy. It's not the same thing.
>>70608378
At conception.
>eye colour is determined
>hair colour
>gender
>and much more
And abortion is legal all the way to birth in Canada. My mum could've killed me the day before I was born and it would be legal. (If I was born today and not 1989 when it was illegal)
Hurr durr but It's not murder if I was "raped"
>>70608678
People on the internet tend to be super binary and mindless when it comes to politics. SAD!
>>70608644
I'm sorry you're so upset with the refugees filling your country, shooting up your concerts, and impregnating your women, that you're trying to come to terms with cucklectively raising their children.
>>70608631
None of those have anything to do with abortion. The second one could be considered intentional if the mother picks up something that is easily transmitted.
Heck even a miscarriage can be considered intentional if they were doing something really stupid like swimming in a frozen lake.
>>70608533
>>70608627
If there is no difference between a growing fetus and a load of sperm then I agree abortion is the way to go.
>>70608473
Nice find
>>70608676
>All animals do it
How is that even a viable argument? Humans are asserting their superiority over other animals because they are "civilised". They should act the role, and giving up on traditions such as infanticide would be a good start, don't you think?
>>70608678
Of course its binary. One is a human being with inherent rights, the other is a potential human being.
The potential human being has some rights, but they do not supersede the rights of the human mother. Which include the right to integrity and autonomy.
Much, much smarter people than you have considered this matter. Have you ever actually read the text to Roe v Wade? or R v Morgentaler? If you're really interested in the reasoned argument for abortion, give it a look.
http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/288/index.do
>>70609006
thats not what i asked. i asked you what your plan is to stop abortion
>>70608614
Somebody explain this to me. Why should we give the shit about the opinions of people who are willing to 'debate' about baby murder?
>>70608266
I dont care if its a human still kill it.
I don't disagree with it
it's just women who get abortion are shit, therefore abortion is good
>>70608691
If you dad hadn't cranked one out the day before he fucked your mom, you would be a completely different person.
Its a neat thought, but it really has no barring on the rights of a potential human.
On one hand it's killing babies, on the other it's giving women a choice. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
>>70608266
>Abortion is murder
Doesn't matter. The number of blacks killed by abortion makes it worth it. We would be overrun by nogs if it wasn't for abortion.
>>70608266
>Being against """murder"""
This is why niggers are becoming such an issue.
Embrace abortion clinics. The majority of people who use them are niggers.
>>70608266
>By claming that the fetus isn't human
I don't know of anyone who is pro-choice and claims a fetus isn't human. They do claim it isn't a person.
>earn it the right to live.
Only people have a right to live.
>Potential is something we Occidentals have always believed in: the potential to become great, to become someone people can respect.
There's also the flip-side to consider. The potential be a leech. To be a murderer. To become someone people will revile. If you only consider the good things in potential then you are cherry-picking you factors and coming to a conclusion based only on partial information.
>>70609024
The embryo is already its own human being. It has its own unique and complete DNA array, unlike a sperm which only possesses half.
The mother's rights do not supercede that of the child either.
The embryo has committed to crime of his own volition, and has only one way of survival. The mother only needs to carry it for nine months inside of her.
I agree that the 'it's not human' argument is dumb. Abortion is justified self-defense, there' no reason to pretend the baby is a spider or fish or whatever.
>>70608266
If abortion is murder it's also pre-meditated murder of a helpless innocent victim, which means death penalty. 40,000,000 American women have had abortions. Look like we're gonna need a lot more electric chairs. Step right up ladies!
I'm gonna lay out my view on abortion in terms of how human the un-born child is. Personally I feel that until around 5 months, the unborn child is not a person, since it has no memories or feelings. Until then, the parent should choose whether it is the right time to bring a new person into the world. After that point, the "humanity" of the child is debatable, but I feel there has been plenty of time to make the important choice if it is necessary.
>>70609121
Conception is when a human being is created. A sperm or egg alone is not a human.
I'm against abortion because if it is framed as a "my body, my choice" that means that men have no reproductive rights, even though they can be saddled with the costs if the woman wants to keep an accidental baby, while the man does not.
We should put a universal time limit on abortions; for example, once it has its own heartbeat, you may not abort. Prior to that, you must have the consent of both parents.
>>70608864
Your blacks might do abortion but ours don't.
>>70609207
>Only people have a right to live.
But no one has an inherent right to anything.
>>70609224
A fucking spider is more self aware than an embryo.
I don't see the problem with abortion as long as i'm not paying for it
>>70609043
Arrest doctors who give abortions and arrest any woman that has an abortion, has the tell tale signs of having a backstreet abortion, has the tell tale signs of having environmental damage such as being submerged in frozen water and if their baby dies from SIDS after it is born.
The punishment for the doctor is 5 years per abortion carried out.
The punishment for the woman is the average life expectancy in jail or giving birth to 4 children for men that want children without having to put up with a mother.
>>70609297
>But no one has an inherent right to anything.
Really? I'm of the opinion that people have a right to rebellion and revolution when their government fails them to the point where rebellion and revolution are the only rational choices left.
>>70609300
#SPIDER LIVES MATTER
>>70609221
>It has its own unique and complete DNA array
A DNA array that would be completely different if masturbation were illegal. Every time you masturbate, you are removing a potential DNA array from existence. If aborting a fetus is murder because it removes a unique DNA array from this world, then so is masturbation
DNA is code for protein sequencing. It is not a person.
I wish you would read the Morgentaler case, instead of whatever stupid soundbytes you're going to get off /pol/
Punishment should be the gas chamber
>>70608266
weird how the right prioritizes things
money and other peoples vaginas
>>70609591
Even weirder is how much they care about nigger lives.
After all, only degenerates and niggers get abortions.
Yet they want to save the lives of nigger and degenerate kids.
But they also say degenerates and niggers should hang from trees.
Very confusing bunch. Low engergy! Sad!
>>70609300
I'm not sure it's possible to determine the level of self-awareness of another entity.
In any event, I think the only sure-fire cut-off point for the self-awareness argument is when the kid can communicate that he/she doesn't want to die.
>there aren't mandatory abortions for degenerates
Very sad
>>70609670
For real. Providing safe abortions makes perfect sense from both a policy and principled point of view. The right to integrity supercedes the right to a potential life.
I can only assume that people who are staunchly against abortion are basing their decision on emotional responses. Its like arguing with SJWs
>>70609426
>DNA is code for protein sequencing. It is not a person.
this actually only applies to about 2% of our genome
the other 98% either codes for untranslated RNAs or has no known function (basically, it's the dark matter of biology)
>>70609906
>the other 98% either codes for untranslated RNAs or has no known function
isn't it just junk, left over from 3.5 billion years of random mutation?
>>70609400
>I'm of the opinion that people have a right to rebellion and revolution when their government fails them to the point where rebellion and revolution are the only rational choices left.
We can try, but if we had a right to it then the government would just step aside without resistance as soon as we rebelled. That wouldn't happen though, they would resist and fight back. We would have to fight for it and many of us would die in the process, but everything in life is a struggle.
We have the ability to fight to try to protect the people that we care about and the ability to try to fight for what we want, but we don't have a right to any of it because the outcome is determined by whether or not we succeed. Rights don't really exist in any objective sense. For example, when the government fights then they tell themselves that they have the right to suppress violent dissidents and maintain the peace and when the rebels fight then they tell themselves that they have the right to rebel against an unjust government. It's both equally nonexistent though, it's just a matter of who is stronger and who prevails in the end.
>>70608631
You are literally retarded. Kill yourself senpai
>>70609416
What are you? Australian?
>>70610199
It would be more efficient if you aborted him.
But you're against that because jeebus.
>>70610069
>We can try, but if we had a right to it then the government would just step aside without resistance as soon as we rebelled
Why would the government do that? Are you under some foolish notion that governments are under some requirement to recognize and provide for any right?
>they would resist and fight back.
No shit? Just like everyone who is in power has an incentive to do? Who would have thunk it? Just like those in power would deny people rights that might endanger their rule?
>we don't have a right to any of it because the outcome is determined by whether or not we succeed.
Let me guess. You only believe in might makes right?
>I hate people who get abortions
>I don't want to pay welfare for someone's kid.
Why does /pol/ always contradict itself?
I suport abortion but people have to admit that it is murder.
>>70610897
>the only options are grinding up human foetus for stem cells or paying for shaniquas twenty kids
They talk about ideal situations. Ideally, no one would need to abort their child outside of extreme circumstances because every child would be planned and taken care of by two parents. Not that hard to understand.
>>70608473
What if it's a female baby? Thats a womans body too.
Or what if it is a male that will identify as a female? That's a womans body too.
Would liberals fight for a transgender man (But biologically a female) to be able to abort a baby girl?
Important questions for our time
>>70608266
>all murder should be illegal
Sometimes murder is right thing anon.
A man hooked up to a machine has no right to your organs fluids or appendages, even if you put him in that state.
Are fetuses, granted personhood or not, offered special privileges above other persons?
>>70608378
First post best post as always
>>70610810
>Are you under some foolish notion that governments are under some requirement to recognize and provide for any right?
Of course not, but what is the point of even talking about rights when you ultimately have to fight for it because an unjust government wouldn't recognize your rights in the first place? It's like when those people scream, "AM I BEING DETAINED?" at the police and yell about their rights. No one is listening and the cop will do what he wants unless someone uses force against him.
Your rights are meaningless when people only recognize them when it's either convenient for them or if you or someone else has used force in order to make them recognize your rights.
>Let me guess. You only believe in might makes right?
What is right is what is good for your ingroup and what is wrong is what is not good for your ingroup. Look at Japan in WW2. Was the Rape of Nanking wrong? No, they didn't hurt their own people. They don't believe that they did anything wrong and they have no reason to believe that they did anything wrong because they don't believe in the absolute suicidal insanity of western moral universalism. You look out for your own people, nothing else matters.
I believe fetuses are human, no matter how small. The moment the egg is fertilized the journey as a human has begun. However, it is too insignificant of a life to call it "murder".
>>70611418
>what is the point of even talking about rights
What is the point of even talking about _anything_ when you ultimately have to fight for it? Perhaps to actually get to the truth of a matter or convey an idea? It seems what you asked is basically why talk about anything when you can just kill anyone who doesn't agree with you. That's not really a functional way to participate in any conversation.
>Your rights are meaningless when people only recognize them when it's either convenient for them or if you or someone else has used force in order to make them recognize your rights.
Let's get this straight. 99% of society says it a person has a right to be safe from gross negligence and reckless behavior. Because it is not unanimous and sometimes that right has to be enforced by physical means the right is meaningless?
>What is right
Semantics? It seems you confuse right as in correct and a right as in just, moral, or proper.
>>70608378
>possibility to become a human being
haha sure with that face
How come pro abortion people never give a fuck about people after they're born?
You'll fight tooth and nail to make sure a kid is born but then you're okay with it starving to death after being born if its mother doesn't have a job. Makes no sense bruh.
>>70612029
maybe because jobless retards shouldn't have children?
>>70609334
... holy shit. Thats fucked. The forcing women to give birth part though gives me a boner.
You really want to have a kid with some jailed ghetto trash though? Rich kids will be able to go to mexico to get abortions so they wont be effected by the law at all. All you are going to have in jail for abortions are meth addicts and minorities so your kids would come out half genetic garbage. You sound like half a tard yourself though so maybe it would be ok.
>>70612102
So let them abort.
>>70608266
>>70612262
That's a pretty nifty chart. But that assumes the reader can understand that there is a mature relevant person involved in pregnancy that should be punished for wanting to get an abortion.
>>70612396
>that should *not be punished for wanting to get an abortion.
Wow. Talk about missing critical context.
im a gay red pilled atheist and
> it has the potential to become human and that alone should be enough to earn it the right to live. Potential is something we Occidentals have always believed in: the potential to become great, to become someone people can respect.
is basically my stance regarding abortion. I also like the phrase "it must be nice to have an opinion regarding abortion, having been born."
their logic on why it isn't disgusting is a sad excuse to free them of guilt.
>>70608266
The only reason I agree with the pro choice crowd is we already have too many people and not enough war or famine. There has to be some way to slow the population growth.
But yeah, it's murder.
>>70612206
Personally i'm all for it, because only human garbage get them 99% of the time. In a perfect society no one would ever need them, but real life is far from perfect, so free abortions for everyone in africa
>>70608266
No, the soul enters upon babies first breath. Otherwise it's just a meat bag.
>>70611748
>Perhaps to actually get to the truth of a matter or convey an idea?
The only thing that matters is whether or not the action hurts your own people. This autistic obsession that the western world, particularly the Anglo world, has with justice being blind and universal rather than determined by tribalism is one of the main reasons for why we're so fucked up today and why we have so little ingroup loyalty. Actions are not inherently just or unjust, it depends entirely upon whether or not you're hurting your own people.
>99% of society says it a person has a right to be safe from gross negligence and reckless behavior. Because it is not unanimous and sometimes that right has to be enforced by physical means the right is meaningless?
The right is meaningless because it goes without saying in any functional, homogeneous society that is not made up of savages. For example, no one has to tell you that a mother has a right to not be murdered by her son. You just understand this naturally. You only need to tell people that it's wrong to behave in a way that might hurt other people when you live in a society where you're surrounded by so many outgroups that you don't even care about the lives of your fellow citizens and you don't feel any natural compulsion to give a shit when some nigger gets drunk and drives over a pack of fat mestizo women.
>Semantics? It seems you confuse right as in correct and a right as in just, moral, or proper.
I'm talking about both. It is morally right to help your own people. It is immoral to hurt your own people. Nothing else matters and nothing else should be considered.
>>70608266
>omg gas every kike/nonwhite race war now!!
>omg every fetus deserves to live just because of it's potential to be a human being how special abortion is murder and wrong!!
/pol/
I should be pro-life due to my scientific understanding of human reproduction, but I'm not.
I have far too pessimistic views on humanity to care whether people are killing their children in the womb. A lot of human beings are trash. What the fuck do I care about them or their dirty ass kids? Fuck 'em.
>>70612029
Why do pro abortion people support ending a possible humans life, but cry foul when murderers and rapists recieve the death penalty?
>>70612763
You really don't see how those aren't contradictory?
>>70612709
>The only thing that matters is whether or not the action hurts your own people.
I believe there is a Captain America image that floats around /pol/ which disagrees with you.
>justice being blind and universal
I agree with you that is a silly notion. However, western values are a reference point all the same, even if it is a reference point of limited scope in accuracy.
> it goes without saying in any functional, homogeneous society that is not made up of savages.
It goes without saying what? That made no sense to me.
>no one has to tell you that a mother has a right to not be murdered by her son. You just understand this naturally.
Pardon? Did you honestly just say that cultural values are genetic and not learned? Please explain to me why we have cultures with no concept of personal property so that theft and fraud have no meaning without being taught such concepts? Or children soldiers who are taught at an early age to kill and devalue human lives so that what would murder in most cultures is not something they learned or value?
>I'm talking about both.
Then you are going off on a tangent I am not interested in discussing as it is not relevant to the thread.
>>70608266
Its not your baby so why do you care? It's not like people are coming and aborting the baby of your partner.
Ethics and morality are often subjective and up to the individual. Let people do whatever they want as long as it doesnt affect you and fuck off.
>>70608266
If abortion were already accepted universally I assume these same people would be advocating for the right to execute a baby because they don't have a sense of self yet.
>>70613203
Well, some countries tax you so other people can kill babies.
>>70611333
Will anyone ever answer this?
Why do you care?
Abortion should always be an option and nothing else. You can't force people to do it but you can't force them to to not do it either.
>>70613053
>It goes without saying what? That made no sense to me.
You said, "99% of society says it a person has a right to be safe from gross negligence and reckless behavior." and I was saying that this goes without saying in a homogenous society that isn't made up of savages. You don't need to tell people that they have a right to be safe from gross negligence and reckless behavior unless they live in a society where the people are split up into so many different groups that no one can empathize with each other. A nigger doesn't care if a mestizo is harmed by his reckless behavior, and then, like you said, the right has to be enforced by physical means.
>Pardon? Did you honestly just say that cultural values are genetic and not learned? Please explain to me why we have cultures with no concept of personal property so that theft and fraud have no meaning without being taught such concepts? Or children soldiers who are taught at an early age to kill and devalue human lives so that what would murder in most cultures is not something they learned or value?
Black child soldiers in Africa aren't taught to devalue human life because they barely value it in the first place, at least not when compared to the insanely altruistic Northern Europeans who seem to sob uncontrollably when even an animal is harmed. The particular details of these values are learned, but it is still largely genetic when it comes to whether or not they will adhere to these values. For example, blacks have low IQs and very low impulse control, so they steal constantly. You can tell him that it's wrong, but you're fighting an uphill battle when you try to get a black to not steal shit.
>>70608266
>fetuses are humans
>blacks are not humans
Pick one, /pol/.
>>70614599
>You don't need to tell people that they have a right to be safe from gross negligence and reckless behavior unless they live in a society where the people are split up into so many different groups
Please explain to me why rights in Japan have to be taught to Japanese people? Of particular example would be consumer protection rights.
>Black child soldiers in Africa aren't taught to devalue human life because they barely value it in the first place
Thank you for agreeing with me that it is not genetic and needs to be taught.
>these values are learned, but it is still largely genetic
Never mind. It seems I can bring up any example of you being wrong and it would be a waste of time.
>>70614234
>Why do you care?
liberals everyone
morally bankrupt, sad and aimless creatures
>>70611091
>being this retarded.
>>70608266
Well duh, of course it's murder, well before the fetus is ever even slightly developed. It's a human being. That's besides the point though, the point is, is that if you're raped you should legally be allowed to abort the damn thing. It's nothing like if you were an irresponsible piece of shit that thinks they can simply bounce out the second you discover a child was conceived. Got yourself into it so, ride it out and, if you're a shit parent deal with the repercussions of CPS up your ass, worse case scenario child is taken away whilst you're buried in fines if not doing prison time depending on the degree of neglect. I agree with it. Get your shit together or get wrecked.
>>70614720
why
>>70611333
Anyone have an argument against this?
Nobody likes to discus what if Mary had an abortion after God had no consensual sex with her.
>>70608266
Sure, it's murder. They even call it murder if someone else kills the baby in the process of killing the mother. Then it's double murder. But if the mother does it, they let that shit slide. Why? Kissing the asses of whores for those votes, that's why.
>>70616604
>if you're raped you should legally be allowed to abort the damn thing
Why? Two wrongs don't make a right.
