Why aren't you a Libertarian?
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Why aren't you a Libertarian?
>>70532919
IQ above 110
SOME
SHITTY
>>70532919
minarchist master race reporting in
>>70532919
But I am...
BARS
I am. I wish capitalists would stop co-opting our words.
Libertarian-ism is a ploy for an-caps and an-capitalism is idealist and will never come to fruition.
not an argument
>>70533057
Tell you commie friends to stop using the word "liberal".
>>70532919
I am, but I'd rather listen to libertarians that don't try to make people cry about their parents every time they call.
I am
>>70533134
Agreed, Stefan Molyneux is a jewtuber attention whore with megalomania.
A picture of Charles Murray would've been better.
ONE
>>70533134
If you can't handle challenging questions then don't call in.
>>70533196
Evidence for his megalomania other than your own jealousy?
>>70532974
Doubtful.
Libertarians tend to have the highest IQ out of all political ideologies.
I am though.
Stay off my goddamn property.
>>70533236
this, not an argument
>>70533236
The way he talks in his videos. His mannerisms.
Granted, I've hardly watched any of his videos. I saw the first 5 minutes of "debating with a bernie supporter" and Stefan was insufferable.
i am over 18 year old
>>70533251
source?
>>70532919
>graduate unable to read
>acting as if nigger statistics matter
lel. dumbass druggie niggers can't read. who fucking cares.
>>70533432
http://righteousmind.com/largest-study-of-libertarian-psych/
>>70533432
>i am over 18 year old
Considering your trip, you're a still a child intellectually speaking.
>>70533413
>I've hardly watched any of his videos.
Well, thank you for feeling important enough to share your opinion on him. We care.
>>70533639
Free speech irks you, Stefan?
>>70532919
I was, but niggers will never accept personal responsibility and anytime the police give them breathing room they start murdering each other at unprecedented rates. Baltimore here, we need facism.
>>70533723
Not really, niggers committed a whole lot less crime before the 1960s.
>>70532919
>we're not creating a permanent underclass
This is what libertarians actually believe.
>>70532919
But I am.
>tfw no libertarian party in sweden
>tfw thinking about starting one
>>70533883
>What is welfare dependency
>>70533883
Yeah, hierarchies and classes were completely fixed and stagnant between the 16th and 19th centuries!
>>70533717
No one cares how his mannerisms make you feel, do you want to refute something he said? Maybe make an argument of some sort?
>>70533575
Thanks for the (you)
>>70533717
i think dumb speech irks everyone
>>70532919
Because I'm not a delusional modernist who thinks no laws will work just because I live in a stable civilization created by strong laws. :^)
>>70534073
Pretty much, yes.
>>70534102
I'm sure I'd agree with most of what he says, if not everything. I'm just saying that, from the few times I watched one of his videos, he seems to be a douchebag.
Fanatically defending him doesn't help me change my mind...
>>70534041
>non-answer
>>70534073
No idea what you're implying here. Be specific.
Ayn Rand collected Social security. You can't make this shit up, kek
>>70534124
Dumb speech is subjective.
>>70534221
I think you need to open a history book or something.
>>70532919
Because I'm not an edgy 12-year-old militant atheist anymore. I see that society needs a moral foundation. Libertarians, for instance, think all drugs should be legalized.
>>70534164
Cuck
>>70534258
>Taking back a portion of what the government stole from you
>Morally wrong
>>70533723
The way black people behave is highly encouraged by the nanny state isolating you from interaction in order to receive help from others and the impossibility of discrimination, which discourages black communities of promoting good behavior.
>>70534319
Because prohibition works eh?
>I don't like that thing! Ban it!
Typical libtard logic
>>70534257
>No idea what you're implying here. Be specific.
There was no "permanent underclass" under the liberal european civilizations of the 16-19th centuries. In fact, for the first time in history hereditarian barriers were abolished and what resulted was a tremendous movement of people, from one class to another, from one country to another, from one continent to another. An explosion of human energy unleashed by freedom.
If you mean that there will "always be poor people", then yes you're correct. But that is not the fault of libertarianism, it is the fault of scarcity of resources.
>>70533134
But watching beta faggots get btfo at the slightest resistance is the only reason to watch his shitty channel.
>>70534257
There will always be poor people because some people produce less than others. Why should people who produce more have their produce stolen from them and given to those who produce less?
>>70534295
Classs mobility was virtually stagnant up until the end of the 2nd world war in most of the world. Sure, there were some cases in the world, and especially in america.
>>70534711
>Classs mobility was virtually stagnant up until the end of the 2nd world war in most of the world
Well no shit, most of the world were still living under primitive feudal systems.
> Sure, there were some cases in the world, and especially in america.
I'm talking about America and the West, you fucking moron, not Imperial China.
>>70532919
Because I like roads.
>>70534405
It's simply funny that a women that argues against Welfare collects it. Its hipocrisy.
>>70534473
And what about selling drugs to little kids?
>>70534823
The clossest our world ever reached to pure capitalism was victorian England. And they had almost none class mobility. And they weren't feudal
DEFOO IT!
>>70532919
Because humans are inheritly evil and will do anything in thier power to fuck up others. we need to fucking restrain eachother so we dont end up like we are now today where the jews do wtf they want and the rest of the world strugles.
>>70533834
>Not wanting to help people by pointing out their flaws
>>70534828
MUH RAODS
>>70534482
>There was no "permanent underclass" under the liberal european civilizations of the 16-19th centuries. In fact, for the first time in history hereditarian barriers were abolished and what resulted was a tremendous movement of people, from one class to another, from one country to another, from one continent to another. An explosion of human energy unleashed by freedom.
What the fuck did I just read? Are you serious? Was there more social mobility than the middle ages? Of course, but that isn't exactly hard is it? Ridiculous.
>If you mean that there will "always be poor people", then yes you're correct. But that is not the fault of libertarianism, it is the fault of scarcity of resources.
The rich (who you indirectly support) are holding 21 trillion in offshore bank accounts, most of which it is reasonable to assume wasn't taxed. And you legitimately think we couldn't remove poverty and significantly improve the living conditions of the poor with that, if the money was given back to the countries that created it, you're delusional. In fact I'd say you're actually clinically insane.
>>70534599
Because simply funnelling capital into ventures and sitting back and collecting free money is definitely "producing more" than the people who actually produced it.
k.
>>70534832
No it's not hipocrisy if you're getting back part of what you put in in tax.
Do you think libertarians advocate lawless society? God help you.
>>70534938
The first country to industrialize, the most inventive and productive country at that time.
>>70534832
>It's simply funny that a women that argues against Welfare collects it. Its hipocrisy.
letting your money be stolen and not reclaiming it is stupidity
>And what about selling drugs to little kids?
bad parenting. it's not anyone else's responsibility if your children are fucking stupid and buy shit from strangers
>>70534938
>And they had almost none class mobility.
The thing I like about debating with communists is how fucking easy it is to disprove their arguments.
http://ereh.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/1/1.abstract
>>70534947
post that pic of stefan in a book cover with the not a argument meme
>>70534962
>MUH INVISBLE HAND!!!11 It's completely not random that a completely theoretical phenomena solves every problem libertarianism has. It sounds almost like the god of gaps, but it's not guise!!!111
>>70535030
>muh roadless society
>>70534938
>The clossest our world ever reached to pure capitalism was victorian England. And they had almost none class mobility. And they weren't feudal
you're dumb as a fucking brick. what the fuck are you even talking about? none of what you just said is true
>>70532919
I will be after the brokered convention
>>70534832
Not everyone acts in self-interest, you prick. For some of us ideology is more important than that.
Because I'm not 16yo.
>>70534832
Just as hypocritical as someone who is against the private ownership of means of production acquiring objects made by means of production that are owned by private entities.
We live in the world we're given even when we would like to change it.
>>70532919
As far as I can remember I still am familia
>>70535041
>What the fuck did I just read? Are you serious?
Yes, it's called "history", you might want to inform yourself about it instead of deriving your political opinions from reddit and marxist blogs.
> And you legitimately think we couldn't remove poverty and significantly improve the living conditions of the poor with that, if the money was given back to the countries that created it, you're delusional
No, I'd be economically literate. Which I guess, to the inferior brain of the moronic communist, looks like insanity.
>>70533016
I thought Japs were socialists.
>>70534258
literally a less violent version of Ragnar Danneskjold's piracy
>>70535166
dont have it
>>70535278
I'm only here for work. Real work btw, I'm not a weeb who became an english teacher.
I'm a fascist libertarian.
>>70535166
Not understanding economics: The Post
>>70534319
You need the state to tell you what you can and what you cannot do? The whole idea construct that Stefan made is based on proper raising of your children, where you explain to them, why drugs are bad. Libertarians do not lack moral, they just think that it is more appropriate for your parents to teach them rather than the state.
>>70534828
>entrepreneurs are able to build huge skyscrapers and complicated skyscrapers but not a few kilometers of asphalt
the realisation of how this argument is ridiculous is pretty god damn funny
>>70532919
Because the Libertarian party is pretty schizophrenic.
So I'm just a libertarian.
Ooooo snap! So edgy!
>>70535030
I never heard a good explanation of the roads in a libertarian society.
>>70535041
They are young. Most will grow out of it. Yesterday there was a dutch guy that made a thread saying that he used to be libertarians up until sclheroses multiple hitted him suddenly and he now depends solely on gov assistance.
>>70535353
Seems contradictory.
>>70535276
>muh learnings
>muh econumigs
Funny you say that since I've almost finished an Arts - History and and Economics double degree, but sure, you definitely know better than me, wowow
>this is where I'd say "kill yourself, kid" a year ago
because libertarians are incapable of including simple human nature in their grand design of rationality, not to mention they have no consideration of culture, ethnicity, family, or morality
even if such a society didn't collapse economically, which considering the sheer irresponsibility and stupidity of your average person it probably would, this fantastical Darwinistic culture would just devolve into corporatism and the society would eventually collapse under the weight of its decadence and immorality
>>70535386
>I never heard a good explanation of the roads in a libertarian society.
Libertarians don't preclude the possibility of tax-payer funded public infrastructure programs, just like they're aren't against a tax payer funded police force. The "libertarians are against roads" meme is a strawman.
>>70535353
So a small government that is ruthlessly efficient? I could get on board with that.
>>70535075
>The first country to industrialize, the most inventive and productive country at that time.
Nobody is disputing capitalism is more productive than feudalism. Every Marxist would agree with that. But capitalism, like feudalism, has inherent flaws which will bring about its demise.
>>70532919
Because I know it won't work even in US
>>70535571
>Funny you say that since I've almost finished an Arts - History and and Economics double degree, but sure, you definitely know better than me, wowow
Oh, so you studied Foucault and Marx?
Humanitiesfags are the worst. The fact that you're touting your meme degrees as proof of your historical and economical literacy makes me laugh.
You know what I majored in? Computer science.
![fuck-this-thread-im-outta-here[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/fBnuFK1.jpg "fuck-this-thread-im-outta-here[1]")
>>70535571
Just realised I'm doing what I told myself I wouldn't: argue with ideologically entrenched teenagers.
>>70535075
>>70535151
Damage control
>>70535163
That talks about the rise of the middle class. But poor to rich was basically still non-existent.
I'm not a commie
>>70535218
>Libertarianism is not self interest
>I NO WANT TO PAY TAXES WUAHHHHHHHHHHH!!1111!!!
>>70535730
>argue with ideologically entrenched teenagers.
You're describing yourself.
>>70535708
>nip majoring in computer science
It writes itself
DO YOU SUPPORT ME GETTING SHOT?
>>70535386
>I never heard a good explanation of the roads in a libertarian society.
Because you have no understanding of economics. When I was around 14 years old I learned that where there is demand for a good or service, there is an incentive to supply that good/service.
>They are young
Saw you posting that yesterday. Lazy deflection tactic. "I can't counter their points rationally so I'll just pretend they're young".
The irony is that most teens and college students are socialists.
>>70535708
>study economics for years
>grew up in politically and economically literate family
>YOU DON'T KNOW ECONOMICS HURR
Yeah I'm leaving. Goodbye.
I don't really see the point
If you're able to afford a welfare state (i.e. have a balanced budget most of the time) why not have one?
The problem is that too many countries have committed to financing a welfare state beyond their means, but that means that it should simply be rolled back. Becoming a libertarian society is not necessary
Also, I don't think it provides any answers to a lot of questions. What does libertarianism have to say above the number one question: saving the white race?
It's also often quite anti-nationalistic and promotes essentially a variation on globalism. This of course neglects the facts that nationalism is the highest political value.
A lot are also cucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oezRXaRoB4
>>70535234
I'm not commie, but thanks for the (you)
>>70535307
Too bad, keep the dump
>>70535353
lol?
>>70535359
>Taking economics, wich as as much validity in science fields as sociology, seriously
We always need retards for MAcdonalds
YES OR NO?
>>70535743
>But poor to rich was basically still non-existent.
What?? Off the top of my head : Carnegie, Rockefeller, Edison
>inb4 they're american so they don't count!
I don't know many british industrialists from that period, so I can't say.
You stupid fuck.
>>70535606
So what gov branchs would you cut? I want a serious answer
>>70535874
>Indoctrinated with the Keynsian meme by marxist professors
>Supposedly enlightened on economics
>>70535801
I'm not a nip
>>70535874
>Yeah I'm leaving. Goodbye.
Standard response following BTFO'ing.
>>70535914
So you've admitted that you have no understanding of economics? No wonder you're a leftist.
>Free stuffs lmao xD
Libertarians also have the highest rates of autism
>>70535606
thank you for not being retarded
reminder that nitpicking is not an argument
>>70534258
>>70535301
>ignores my post because he's never actually read anything by Ayn Rand and dismisses her out of hand because he disagrees with her
well memed Alberto Barbossa
>>70535868
But how would a Road system be in libertarian system? I don0t want you to teel me about the "le supply and demand law xDDDD" again.
And i couldn't care less that i know nothing about economics. It's a meme degree
I'm a libertarian because my parents taught me as a kid that it is bad to steal other people's property.
>>70536043
>"rugged individualist" posting about his new fav economic ideology he just learned about from a youtube video
>>70536224
>I don0t want you to teel me about the "le supply and demand law xDDDD" again.
>i know nothing about economics. It's a meme degree
You are a joke.
>>70535891
Libertarianism defends what is best for the jewish overlords. Also if we cut out the interest in our debts, most of our countries would not have a deficit overnight
>>70536035
The welfare system. A good chunk of the military. A good chunk of labor laws (things like minimum wage). Most governmental meddling in industry, such as safety and inspection laws.
I'd severely reshape public education.
>>70536288
ITT: youtube economic experts argue
also where are the roads?
I am not because I only agree with many of their ideas. I am not fully on board. You'd have to be a retard to just jump onto Libertarianism. It takes years of studying politics to even have the grasp needed to make a judgement like that.
It's not an ideology that you can read and then go ''lol I agree with this XD guess I am a libertarian :P :DDD''. You have to be very well educated to make that leap and say that yes, libertarianism is for you.
The self-proclaimed libertarians couldn't answer basic questions about what goals libertarians have and what their society would look like if they got what they wanted.
Molyneux is one of the people who has studied this stuff and has educated opinions.
le roads xddd
>>70536331
Why are the jewish overlords pro-big government then?
>Can't even employ the jew meme correctly
>>70535041
>Was there more social mobility than the middle ages?
Serfdom isn't exactly libertarianism.
>>70535386
>sclheroses multiple
Subhuman genes desu, shouldn't breed tbqh
I'm not a libertarian because I see no value in pure ideology.
"Pure" libertarians value freedom more than anything and want no compromise. It's not utilitarian.
Maybe "Bleeding-heart libertarianism" describes me. (just wiki the term)
But "true" libertarians would never call somebody like that a libertarian so I'm not a libertarian.
>>70536169
Hayek supported a minor state and some form on welfare.
He's not a "true" libertarian like Mises or Rothbard. Hayek still had some of his socialist past in him.
>>70536000
>Some cases in America
But yes, the exception is the rule mate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers
Here is one
>>70536169
I am a national socialist. I don't have a deggre in economics, yes. And i bet noone of the libertarians ones do ITT. I bet most of you just read wiki pages and might have ventured in some libertarian books, but ythat is it. And calling yourself economic literate because of that is very wrong
>>70536224
Toll booths
or not needing roads since you can take your tax free offroader, pump it with tax free gas and not complain about trading half an hour more of travel in exchange for absolute freedom
>>70536438
nice meme pic, but..
NOT
AN
ARGUMENT
Also i'm not a socialist.
>>70536525
>Hayek supported a minor state and some form on welfare.
I am aware, I've read 2 of his books. Does that mean I can't quote him?
I hope you only quote people you agree with 100% like a drone.
Socialists love to nitpick without seeing their own hypocrisy
>>70536327
>WOW Surely i was BTFO with those 20 words quote justapossed on a picture of a woman who opposed welfare yet colleted from social security or some other economists that never worked a day in their lifes.
I am close to kill myself
>>70536582
I'm in a final year of a BSc Political Science and Economics. My professors are mostly leftists, but I am a free thinking individual. I'm very qualified to talk on this.
>>70536582
>national socialist
Fascist Portugal lasted pretty long (until 74 I think)
But it's time to move on
>>70536667
I always nitpick.
>>70532919
I can't even succeed WITH all these resources around me, how the hell am I gonna do it on my own?
>>70536810
>>70536224
>But how would a Road system be in libertarian system?
City A has a factory that produces product A, City B has a factory needs product A to make product B. The owners agree that they will build a road, buy the land, place tollbooths and everybody goes home happy.
The end.
>>70536846
Just let natural selection do it's job and get away with the unfit ;)
>>70536376
So you want to keep the same but without gov regulations and welfare. Hmm. Think for 30 sec who would benefit from that. But think hard. And i'm not kidding
And what about polution? How would a libertarian society handle that?
>>70536919
We don't need tollbooths, we have plate reading technology
>>70536224
Probably the same way the phone system currently works. Each provider has their own service, but they all allow cross calling because it gives better service for everyone. In the same vein companies that require roads will build them in conjunction with other companies because being able to use interconnected roads would improve everyone's ability.
You don't need government force to create cooperation.
>>70536921
I was gonna say something mean back but then I realized u already live in the netherlands. Good luck to u
>>70536960
the most fucking relevant comment of the human existence, have a (you).
>>70536930
There was no polution in the middle ages ;)
>>70537051
420 man... oh wait
A fucking leaf.
>>70536930
Hmmmm well we better have cops now, since the welfare place is just gonna get robbed. And hey, there's still fires, so we might need the fire guys back too. OHHH and now that I think about it, we can't just FIGHT everything out, I heard about this thing called LAW we can implement...
>>70536846
You wouldn't. That's kind of what Libertarians are saying.
People like you wouldn't be supported by the tax payer. You'd either do some labor to get by or die. As far as I understand it's kind of a ''for the greater good'' ideology.
>>70537052
Sorry if I annoyed you princess, perhaps you like waiting in queues for tollbooths?
>>70536930
Is the current government handling polution? In a libertarian society when something is dirty , and someone wants it clean, it gets done. The free market.
>>70537111
That's the 2nd time someone's tried to pull the "leaf" thing on me. People see it and they know what it represents. I like the leaf. The leaf is awesome. U know what sucks? Three plain stripes of solid color. U know who does that? Fucking everyone does that
>>70537213
More like why should I be punished for his ineptitude?
>>70536519
They are not. Only lobby for regulations that benefit their vested interests. But there are better ways to tackle this issue, like limiting campaign fundings, banning loobyism, banning elected officials from taking private sector jobs for x amount of years after the end of the mandate, completely transparent personal finances for elected officials...
>>70536589
Dirt roads need maintenance too. And travel in mountain areas without proper roads is virtually impossible.
Tool boths for every road? It seems highly inneficient. And what stops them from jacking up the prices?
>>70537213
That's not the greater good. The minute that happens all the poor people are gonna have problems. Unless we're talking mass genocide here, they aren't going anywhere unless u create tons of easy employment. Another option is we come steal your shit on the regular, and there's more of us
>>70537295
To be honest, I'd rather have the flag of Oranje Vrijstaat.
That's a nice flag.
But we represent toothpaste, so our flag keeps our breath fresh
>>70532919
Because I want you all to suffer.
>>70532919
I'm not 12 anymore
>>70536806
>My professors are mostly leftists, but I am a free thinking individual.
You couldn't be anymore of a faggot if you tried mate. But you will grow out of it.
>>70536810
started in the 30's all the way up to 74
But no, not Salazarism. I am more of a Scandinavian model
>>70532919
Rightwing libertarian master race reporting in
>>70537370
Because maybe you have a shred in compassion for people that struggle. If you do not, then I understand your stance. Otherwise, we need these support systems in place because you never know who will need it. YES people leeching off the system is a problem but that's a problem that can be addressed on it's own. I'm not a slacker btw, I just got laid off from a job I worked for 2 years and I have been on unemployment for a few months now while looking for another job. If I didn't have UI, I would be ON THE STREET and in this world where no one gives any resources to the poor, that would be my death sentence I'm sure. Last time I got robbed for $1200 when I had to stay in a shelter.
>>70536488
So you aren't allowed to have political views unless you've studied them in depth for years? Does this apply to liberals, conservatives, socialists, communists, etc.?
>>70537409
>Tool boths for every road?
like >>70536960 said, some chip reading tech might be useful
>And what stops them from jacking up the prices?
Someone else building a road, loss of business, citizens with guns get pissed, a lot of things
>>70537409
dirt roads have existed since pagan times, the only manteinance they need is being used, if they stop being used nature claims them back.
One can choose how much he wants to isolate himself, but yes I am prepared to give up some modern commodities in exchange for freedom. For me it is much more valuable.
In my region (catalonia) there are already toll booths in almost every road, that doesn't mean there are toll booths every ten minutes, they are placed in key spots.
Also toll booths can and often offer the option to check out automatically with a teletac wityhout stopping
>>70536919
I understand the concept. But would i need to pay a tool everytime i travel in some road?
>>70537655
and that's assuming you capitalists will even let us keep the shelters. It's cold, man.
>>70532919
Hello stefan, hope you're soing well.
>>70537409
Voluntary crowd source the funds for road, shill it until enough money is raised. Run infommercials until the money is made each month to maintain the infrastructure.
Yes the roads are hard to explain to someone who won't change their Ideaology because they are scared all the roads won't be paved smooth. The roads might be fucked for a while, but if enough people want a road, there will be a road.
Tbh the corporations would build them anyway
>>70537425
There's far more to it. I am not a libertarian myself so I don't really know what their stances on this are and what their solutions are, but people living on welfere would definitely suffer. It would be no paradise for people who are on autismbux.
>>70536919
Lmao. Road starts breaking down. Shitty owner A says "fuck that I'm not doing it I'm broke right now".
Shitty owner B says "hey, I know that road is on YOUR side but people really need it to get to MY side.
Now you have conflict. Nobody is gonna fix the road, there's no lawyer, there's no cops. I guess we better whip out the guns! 'MURICA
>>70537747
You already pay taxes for roads, dumbass.
>>70536980
But what if some company engaged i a war with other and forbid the other provider clients from using his roads? And if i needed that road to get to work?
DEFOO
NOW
AGAINST
ME
>>70537866
Well as far as I know they don't have solutions for these problems, they have the mindset of "let's take city hall and figure it out from there!" If there's some libertarian out there that's got it all figured out I would love to see it, but I bet his plan just looks like a smaller version of our current system lol
>>70537279
Yes, it's called gov regulations and polution controls.
1) tacitly support white genocide
2) tacitly support degeneracy
3) only care about money
4) support open borders
5) bootlickers for corporations
Hi everybody Stefan Molyneux from freedomainradio I hope you're doing well!
Spanking your kids is the direct cause of all the world's evils, specifically wars and the government, which is an immoral system centralised around the monopoly of violence to commit taxation, which is nothing else but theft at gunpoint, a gross violation of the Non-Aggression principle. Any arguments against these are actually not an argument because of my own moral framework that I invented that you cannot refute because speaking to me is proof that my framework is correct and evidence of Universally Preferable Behaviour. Therefore I literally cannot be wrong because everything is literally not an argument. The only way we can slay the great beast that is the government is for you to donate more than one fucking dollar. If you call in we will have a discussion about how your daddy's rich and your momma's good lookin', but she was an evil vile woman who is a child abuser because she fought with her husband in front of you once. If my mother weren't my mother she would be FUCKING DEAD! I would have FUCKING KILLED HER! You must go to therapy and defoo because spending time around people that WANT YOU SHOT is suicidal. Throughout the call I will constantly interrupt you, and scold you if you do the same to me, but that's okay because I have the largest philosophy show in the history of humanity. However, I will not hesitate to hang up on you if you admit that free will does not exist, because I don't debate with robots.
P.S. I don't want to fuck you.
mandatory lolbertarian read
http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html
>>70537213
What are charities?
What are religious communities?
What are families?
>>70538095
not an argument
>>70537986
Oh shit those 2 guys are fighting? Maybe if I make an ally I can take out both of them! Who's down for constant micro-wars?!?
>>70537986
>what would you do if you had to use the potty in a libertarian society, who would pay for the toilet paper :^)
>>70537722
>In my region (catalonia) there are already toll booths in almost every road
Highway tool booths? Or parking fees?
>but yes I am prepared to give up some modern commodities in exchange for freedom.
I bet you are not, just a child speaking. Many people sa that, but when time comes...
>>70534828
>Private enterprise builds skyscrapers
>Private enterprise builds enormous soccer stadiums that can guest 100.000 people at max capacity.
>Somehow, clearing a surface or a few km, covering it with asphalt and place signposts on it is such a prodigy of engineering that only the state can do it.
>This is what statists really believe.
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP
>>70537409
The only way to stop the wealthy from hijacking the state is to remove the state powers that they're abusing. Power will always be abused. Libertarianism is at its heart about freedom and the decentralization of power.
I M M O R A L
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>>70538152
Charities give to specific causes, unless we directed all that charity money towards shelters, they would close fast. I don't have family left and seriously not many people have a religious community any more. I mean I can go to the YMCA or the Job Finder place down the street....oh no wait that was all government funded. But at least I don't have to pay taxes now and I can open carry my M4A1
>>70537747
Yes? Have you ever heard of the concept called "membership" ? Don't you already do that in your country? In Czech republic, you buy "Dalnicni znamka" (a sticker that you put on the front window) for the year and you are good to go on all state roads.
>>70537852
>Voluntary crowd source the funds for road, shill it until enough money is raised. Run infommercials until the money is made each month to maintain the infrastructure.
Sounds too tiresome. There are people that work 10 hours a day for 6 days a week.
I know, what if we just surrender a portion of our income and there is a entity that manages this for us?
>>70538082
You know nothing about libertarianism
it is fundamentally anti corporation
>>70537655
Or maybe you think that the state is absolutely shit at everything it does when compared to private initiatives? Charity, or some other private institution, would replace tax funded gibs programs.
>>70532919
Because capitalism is a disease.
Libertarians want capitalism on steroids.
Selling crack to children, buying the colosseum of Rome, then demolishing it and turning it into a parking lot, people demeaning and humiliating themselves, and every other unthinkable thing you can imagine for the purpose of profit is what libertarianism is about.
Christian morality and fascism is the only cure for this cancer.
>>70538442
libertarianism is whatever special snowflake its proponent wants it to be. That's the same with any utopian ideology. "Not true socialism", "not true capitalism".
WOMEN NEED TO FUCK NICE GUYS AND THE WORLD WILL BE SET FREE WITHIN A GENERATION!
>>70537986
Libertarianism isn't anarchism you absolute moron.
>>70538301
Hey guys, the SkyDome in Toronto blew up, the Blue Jays were gonna make the playoffs! Who wants to help fix it?? *awkward shuffle all around the city until YOU step up and pay for all of it cuz ur the best, and since this new system is making it very hard to work my way up from minimum wage, you better get used to paying to keep the city running while I work my ass off to pay rent. Damn, this isn't looking good for you unless you live on a 10 acre property in Texas with company around
>>70533057
You're both shit. Anarcho fascist here. Get on my edge level, normies.
>>70538211
And meanwhile how would you get to work?
You can't simply buil new roads in a city environment.
>>70538217
keks were had
>>70532919
Because I don't want to spend that much time around books
>>70538345
So now without the state there is absolutely no entity that prevents wealthy from abusing power. Great fix mate
>>70538152
Charities would go to help kids with no parents. The NEETs in this thread who refuse to work would be fucked and their parents would not be able to provide for them.
For a lot of these people it would be a sink or swim situation.
I am not saying it's good or bad. I think it says more about our current system than anything else.
>>70538524
Ok cool, a charity or private institution will fund it. That sounds awesome. Now guys, this is honor system SO EVERYONE PAY! Hey btw, the guys making 100K a year, you might have to pay a bit more....ok yknow what wanna go back to taxes yet?
>>70538440
Without taxes they could work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and make enough money to support their family and decide if they feel they can give money this month towards the infrastructure, or save it, or work on fixing the car, or the house, or the kids birthday. Ect.
>>70535571
> Muh double useless degrees
Yes I would like some ketchup with my fries, thank you
>>70536182
Bernie supporters have been proving otherwise
>>70538767
Sure I'll fix my shit, but say goodbye to ANYTHING public. I'm not paying that shit on the honor system. So someone has to do the roads, snow removal, park cleanup, ALL THE THINGS. And now that no govt is giving out paychecks, we better damn well start handing out the collection plate! This system is PERFECT
>>70535600
>slippery slope
Youre also describing hard libertarianism
>>70538400
But in a libertarian society there would be competition. And a company could forbid acess to their roads to customers from other companies, right? You are talking about a monopoly, that works well in this case
>>70532919
Reported for advertising.
>>70538573
So you would be forced to allow other person to acess your private property? Sounds like a very socialist thing to me.
>>70538382
People would have more money in their pockets, and therefore more to donate, and private institutions evolve would fill the role that all these government programs currently take up. There is no reason to think that these institutions would resemble anything we have today, so who the fuck knows what it would look like. Unless you're totally invalid you can work though. If you just want to be a lazy mooch, you can starve. The truly needy will be helped.
>>70538286
How was I not clear? Highway toll booths
Parkings aren't free either though lol why would they be.
The truth is the government uses your tax money to contract a private company to build the road, and then on top of that you get taxed again at the toll booth, were part of your money is kept by the company and the other part by the state.
>I bet you are not, just a child speaking. Many people sa that, but when time comes...
>this is what socialist cucks believe
You might be a wiry defenseless faggot scared of life, but the truth is most people aren't
You think I'd die if I stopped having internet tomorrow? I think you're the child here
>>70535353
Link to website?
>>70538743
Incoherent. If you want an answer, rewrite this.
>muh roads
Why does every anti-libertarian argument resort to this? Hardcore purist libertarianism is not the only way of establishing freedom.
The thing is, people SHOULD at the very fucking least be able to CHOOSE whether they want to contribute to whatever state service or not.
The State creates monopolies and forces people to pay for them, all the while pushing privately-owned competition to effectively compete. How the fuck can anyone stand for this?
>>70538767
>Without taxes they could work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and make enough money to support their family
If the prices would not be jacked up. And now you would have to pay for healthcare insurance and many other things
>>70538767
>decide if they feel they can give money
I wouldn't. That's one of the things I don't like about libertarianism.
Good moral people would give money to charities and organizations that build infrastructure. Bad people wouldn't. So basically you end with a system that punished good behavior and rewards bad behavior. If you're a shit greedy person you're going to have more money than good people.
I'd be one of the shit greedy people who keeps all his money to himself.
I prefer low taxes over voluntarism because of this.
>>70533413
I'm not even a Molyneux fan but clearly the insufferable person in that video was the Bernie supporter.
>>70535868
Lol "incentive to supply"? Hmm I need a road that goes ALLLLL the way to work, and there's not many other people that need that road. What's a guy to do? I guess I don't get one. Or is someone gonna provide it for me out of the goodness of your heart? U sure u don't just wanna go back to government? I don't know how to make concrete
all you need to know about this genus takes 2 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDoIilJ-_Z0
Daily reminder to all men - women only want you for your resources.
Daily reminder to all women - men only care about you because EGGS.
>>70538994
>The truth is the government uses your tax money to contract a private company to build the road, and then on top of that you get taxed again at the toll booth, were part of your money is kept by the company and the other part by the state
Exactly, and this is why all means of production need to be collectivized.
>>70536488
Years of studying politics would not make that a good idea, you would probably just come to your senses
>>70538735
If you are able to work, and decide not to because you're lazy, you should not be receiving any help. You'll probably change your mind when your stomach starts grumbling though, which is a good motivator to work. How can you can disagree with not giving free shit to lazy people?
>>70538879
Once people want it done, and see the issues not helping the infrastructure leads too, the issue is resolved. Just have a real time money needed meter and let the donations come in. Maybe Coke will sponsor the next snowstorm and pay for the plowing. Get real bby.
>>70537655
>I don't trust you to donate to the poor so I'm going to force you to give to an charity that is proven to be horribly inefficient.
>Why don't you feel sympathy for me?
THAT'S IT! I hate to say it but most people who want "no taxes" are generally just selfish people. Instead of the public pool they want the pool in their backyard. WELL-WELL----WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY FOR YOU PEASANTS! Because someone has to MAKE you or we're gonna have to pay you less
>>70538743
>A voluntary system is worse than jewing people by force because it may not give me more gibs me dats even though charitable donations go through the roof when taxes go down.
>>70539129
Makes a good point.
>>70538994
Almost every other road != Highways and parking fees.
I kind of aggre with parking fees, it tries to tackle the huge number of cars trying to squeze themselves in the city and makes people use the public transportation. Highway fees is other history.
>The truth is the government uses your tax money to contract a private company to build the road, and then on top of that you get taxed again at the toll booth, were part of your money is kept by the company and the other part by the state.
If this was weel done, i would have no problem, but that truth (you and i both now) is the absurd amount of corruption this kind of deals involve. I think we should tackle corruption first and then we should be thinking about revolutions
>You might be a wiry defenseless faggot scared of life, but the truth is most people aren't
You are a big though motherfucker aren't you?
>>70539073
Free market ensures prices won't be jacked up, if someone can do it cheaper and better they will. With 30% of your wages freed up and no extra money added in the system, other than what was already there, crazy shit can happen
>>70532919
That argument is retarded, the success or lack off during the first obligatory years of education is a failure of the individual rather than the society. Libertarianism is a good idea but like most "isms" they usually never the answer on themselves and a hybrid system mixed with other ideas is the best.
Personally I think that the current system works if it wasn't for the fact that the apparition of financial capital and the lack of ability (or will) to establish clear rules to avoid a transfer of wealth from the ones that have less towards the ones that hold the capital isn't as rampant as it is now.
>>70539306
You are correct, the system we have now is filled with freeloaders trying to get some weed money and social workers that don't give two shits about their clients. This to me, says we need to change the way we handle these systems. Becoming a libertarian isn't the most ideal way of dealing with too many ppl on welfare lol
>>70538879
You seriously don't believe that people would figure out ways to coordinate? How about before you move onto the street you sign a contract to contribute to maintenance? There are millions of ways people could sort that stuff out, without allowing freeriders. You're just being willfully stupid tbqh. If you actually had any earnest desire to learn about this topic, you could use google to see what people have written about this topic, but you won't because you're a vapid retard.
>>70539438
>you're selfish if you're against having your money stolen
>>70533251
Citation needed
>>70539278
Who said I disagree? Can you read, Aussie?
>>70539074
They get holographic, "I donated" stickers and get 20% discount on towing, car repairs, shopping in most stores, and their power bill.
Wew thinking is hard
Strict, uncompromisable Libertarianism won't work.
However, Ad-hoc Liberterianism will work very well indeed, which means that you adapt as time goes while still striving towards Libertarianism.
>>70539514
>Free market ensures prices won't be jacked up
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If people are left to their own devices they will behave good. If we decriminalize murder people won't murder, hmmm, becuase they will have bad dreams after.
Your logic is infalible.
How would a free market prevent prices from being jacked up?
>>70539106
Wait, so everyone else should be forced to pay just so YOU can go to work along a road? Doesn't sound very fair to me.
Now of course, if more people demanded that road, it would be profitable and someone would build a road, or you could pay for building the road with other people that needed it.
>>70539865
>If people are left to their own devices they will behave good. If we decriminalize murder people won't murder, hmmm, becuase they will have bad dreams after.
Do you have any understanding of how the free market works? Your analogy doesn't mean anything.
>>70539624
>would figure out ways to coordinate?
We already do. It's called governments.
>>70532919
>Why aren't you a Libertarian?
Because I think organization works better than chaos and because I'm a national socialist.
>>70539438
You're the selfish one, you are the one who wants government to care for you with other people's money.
>>70539736
And why would "owing, car repairs, shopping in most stores, and their power bill" companies give 20% discount?
>>70539865
>How would a free market prevent prices from being jacked up?
because when one company jacks up prices, anyone who keeps selling cheaper will make more money
>>70539953
>Libertarianism
>Chaos
Tell me more about how ordered the world is at the moment also
>>70539944
Voluntarily coordinate.
>>70539712
It was a rhetorical question, wasn't saying that you disagree, Lithuanian.
>>70539939
So explain me then.
Why wouldn't monopolies form? Why wouldn't prices be jacked up? Why wouldn't competition allie themselves and jack up the prices together?
>>70539865
>Store A jacks up the prices unreasonably
People go to Store B
>Both stores jack up the prices unreasonaly
>Demand for reasonably priced goods is off the charts
>Capitalistic individual decides to start Store C with reasonably priced goods and makes a fucking fortune because of it
There are honestly better arguments against libertarianism, try harder
>>70539736
I can see thinking is hard for you. Such a shitty idea and you're already complaining about your brain hurting.
>>70539953
Voluntary coordination is not chaos.
>>70539865
God its frustrating talking to retards like you.
>>70540056
And if they allie with other companies?
>>70540079
We already do, it's called the governments. If you don't aggre, go innawoods, or immigrate
>>70540143
>Thinking bad monopolies can exist without government
>Not realising government is the biggest monopoly
>>70540143
>Why wouldn't monopolies form?
Because monopolies never form in a competitive market. They're unsustainable.
>Why wouldn't competition allie themselves and jack up the prices together?
That's a possibility. Which is why libertarians are in favor of anti trust laws.
Now let me ask you a question : what's the difference between a corporate monopoly and a government monopoly? Do you believe that the government are "good guys" and corporations "bad guys"?
>>70540143
Okay - a bunch of companies collude to raise prices. What is stopping one of them from betraying the others, undercutting them and making a shit load of profit? Cartels cannot stay together without using force.
>>70540153
Yes, a store C may appear. And that store C might not jack up the prices too. But meanwhile?
I would have to keep buying things with unreasonable prices for months?years?
And what keeps store C from jacking up the prices too?
>>70540295
Nope, they aren't needed. Oligopolies are unsustainable as are monopolies.
Prisoner's dilemma my friend.
>>70540203
Ok, keep not answering the points:
>How would a free market prevent prices from being jacked up?
>>70539865
>I know literally nothing about maximizing profits
Selling something at $50 to a million people is worth more than selling something at $200 to a hundred thousand. And if your gross revenue is too far above your expensive, a competitor will just undercut your prices and steal your consumer base.
>>70540245
Government is not voluntary, faggot. I honestly can't handle how much of a retard you are. Its stressing me out, I hope you're happy.
>>70540245
>And if they allie with other companies?
prisoner's dilemma, the first company to break with the cartel and lower prices will grab a giant chunk of the rest of the cartel's business, forcing them to either also lower their prices or go out of business, that's also assuming no new companies providing the same good/service form
>>70539865
>If we criminalize murder people won't murder
Well there are still people getting gutted at truck stops every day, I don't think criminals give a shit about the laws, and those people who already follow the laws, follow them because a lot of it is founded on basic morals, don't steal, kill, or hurt other people. Of other people aim to steal from,, kill or hurt you, you have a right to defend yourself. Free market duh
>>70540044
We are getting so fucking hypothetical it's beginning to miss the point, I offered that as an idea, for companies who donate larger amounts towards road building would encourage more donations
>>70540401
What a ridiculous argument. C is making lots of profit selling goods undercutting A and B. Why the hell would C raise prices and lose market share?
>>70540425
Sure, but oligopolies can happen and have already happened, historically, although they eventually collapse. I just wanted to contrast this with monopolies, which are boogeymen who exist solely in the minds of delusional leftists.
>>70540401
>And what keeps store C from jacking up the prices too?
The thread of store D being opened and undercutting them all
>>70539624
Do you want to share some of your libertarian knowledge with everyone in this thread? I'm plenty curious to see what amazing ideas the libertarians have to offer. And no, I don't think people would just "figure out" ways to coordinate. When the roads get snowed in, do I get my neighbors to pitch on the snow plow? Or do we all pay the snow plow guy what used to be paid for us as part of our neat little tax package? Try and convince me if you can, you don't have to be a prick about it
>>70540537
Because [inserts picture of a pig with a top hat]
#Feelthebern
>>70540469
How would prices get jacked up in a free market? If company A jacks up their prices (can't be good for reputation), company B undercuts them and takes their profits and market share, while getting a boost to reputation.
Is stefan controlled opposition?
>>70540262
>>Thinking bad monopolies can exist without government
Why can't they?
>>Not realising government is the biggest monopoly
And thank god it is. I don't want a war being fought on my city.
>>70540295
>Because monopolies never form in a competitive market. They're unsustainable.
Why are they unsustainable?
>Which is why libertarians are in favor of anti trust laws
Are they?
>corporate monopoly and a government monopoly
Tell me.
>that the government are "good guys"
There are good guys in government.
>corporations "bad guys"?
When unregulated they showed over and over they are
see '08
>>70539905
But what if no one else gets a road? Then I don't get a road! Oh but that works for YOU right? Ok well it seems your road is getting some potholes, you better pay for that with all your money while I continue to struggle and eventually come rob your house out of desperation. And I'm not even the hordes of ghetto kids that will be on your street as well
>>70540401
Store C only makes a fortune so long as its prices are lower than the rest
its basic economy
>what is IKEA
>what is Micky Dee's
selling cheap makes you richer than selling expensive
>>70540616
There'd be lots of snow plow operators competing with one another to plow your road and you'd get a cheap price. Far better than an overpriced government monopoly snow plow.
>>70539983
No, I want government to have my back when I fall so I can get up again and be a working member of society. Otherwise I become a leech on society, a criminal or a beggar or someone taking in your empties and knocking on your door to mow your lawn for 10 bucks. It doesn't come from being selfish, it comes from desperation, and there's a LOT of desperate people out there that actually do deserve a chance. If you wanna keep ur money that's fine but I hope u have enough guns when shit cracks.
>>70540743
>>70540469
You said you didn't want people bringing up supply and demand, but I'm sorry, economy does work like that
>>70540616
A landscaping company will plow it, for small roads individuals will pay and for major roads that companies need to survive will be paid for by said companies, except instead of being stuck with whatever garbage company the government decides is best for us, we get the best service possible from competition.
>>70540153
Sooo that means Store 1 and 2 just failed. Hey store 1 and 2, have u noticed all these people out of jobs? And now we have NO help or safety net to get us out of this pickle! Who wants to start a gang so we can eat food tonight?
>>70540616
You just listed a bunch of ways people might decide to organize? How the hell can I possibly know exactly what people would do in a voluntary society?
>>70540737
Roads are demanded by people, so road builders will exist and roads will be built. Anything more you have to add?
Also
>What are dirt tracks
If it's only me I might as well just use a dirt track rather than forcing other people to pay for a road only I will use
>>70540725
>Why are they unsustainable?
Unsustainable was a poor choice of words. Impossible is actually more like it.
It's impossible to control 100% of a market.
In the miraculous event that a rare strain of bubonic plague which magically infects and kills all the employees of the competitors of a certain company, leaving it in a position of monopoly, it is in practice infeasible for it to be able to produce a cheaper and better service than a smaller company.
Why do you think that big bloated government programs always suck so much?
>Are they?
They are, you should read a book sometimes.
>Tell me.
No, I asked the question, you fucking nigger.
Anyways, you seem to be legitimately mentally retarded. They should require passing an IQ test before being allowed to post on /pol/
Fuck off back to /leftypol/
>>70540940
Which again highlights the ridiculousness of price gouging. Why would any business owner willingly put himself out on the street? It's not a practical or sustainable business model. It's really nothing more than a red-herring from the left.
>>70540940
>Hey store 1 and 2, have u noticed all these people out of jobs? And now we have NO help or safety net to get us out of this pickle!
except for the exponentially growing Store 3 that now needs experienced workers for their expanding business
/leftypol/, what is your opinion on the study of economics? Several months ago you wrote something which, if I remember correctly, was basically to the effect of "I don't believe in economics; it doesn't exist".
>>70540940
I was actually making the point that stores one and two wouldn't jack up the prices in the first place because they stand to lose if they do
the portuguese anon said what would happen if someone jacked up the prices way high. I'm saying if they're smart they wont
>>70540336
A corporate war is expensive and risky. They could simply just continue profiting from jacked up prices.
And yes, they could lower the prices. But what about the meanwhile?
>>70540472
That is true for luxury goods. You still need food to eat, and will have to buy it no matter what. You need gas for your car. You need water.
>>70540515
It's not, but you have the option to leave. But you choose not to, so i think you are somewhat happy by your state of affairs.
>>70540523
>prisoner's dilemma, the first company to break with the cartel and lower prices will grab a giant chunk of the rest of the cartel's business
They could just keep jacking up the prices.
But what about meanwhile? Libertariansim offer no immediate solutions. All your solutions involve long periods of suffering and waiting.
Anarcho-Collectivist here.
I agree with Molyneux on many things, but the guy is a total asshole.
>>70540877
You've gone outside rational argument now.
>Some people will get angry so you'd better have guns!
Remind me of what is protecting you from a government that becomes more and more socialist, like yours if it decides to go full commie/nazi?
I'd rather protect myself against a beggar than a tyrannical government.
>>70540938
There is no government. Why the hell would anyone do any of this? Because it works for you? I'm broke right now and can't pay for my section of road. I'll be able to pay in a few months or so when I get on my feet but I MEAN GODDAMN HOW EXPENSIVE IS A ROAD?!? Anyways if you need to drive through it, just go over this sketchy dirt road in between roads and ruin your car. Orrrr, maybe we can all pitch on the road and ill get u guys back by paying for some of the library system or something? Do u guys wanna do government again yet? It's cold out here and all the stores are at war with each other
>>70540725
Holy fucking shit how thick are you. Anti consumer monopolies can only survive on government assistance. Otherwise a better competitor would rise and steal the consumer base. Thus you either have competing services constantly trying to improve on each other, or you have the best possible service available.
>>70540976
So then why are u still arguing that it's a good idea if you have no fucking clue? Are you even arguing with me? Where am I?
>>70540535
>We are getting so fucking hypothetical
Libertarianism is purely hiphotetycal, so you better get used to it.
>for companies who donate larger amounts towards road building would encourage more donations
It's an idea, but a impractible one.
>>70540877
Also about needing something to fall back on on rough times
you're probably a fedora wielding memetheist since you fervently defend socialism
But the single point of the church is to help the weak and those who need guidance
>>70541103
>They could just keep jacking up the prices.
what the fuck does that even mean?
>this is a bad idea because of xyz
>but what if they just do it anyway???
>>70541103
>They could just keep jacking up the prices.
Yeah they could, but they'll lose profit. What's stopping the shops where you live jacking up prices may I ask? Nothing, they could if they wanted to. BUT THEY DON'T.
We should put you in a straight jacket, because what's stopping you from killing yourself at the moment?
>>70540940
>No help or safety net
Not everyone is a lonely NEET who can't save for shit like you. I wonder if store 3 is going to have any opening now that they have 3 times the customers.
>>70540877
How about civil society looks after people who need help, rather than a government that has proven to do a shit job?
Also, consider this: who has a better incentive to get people back on their feet.
A government that benefits from creating a welfare class that will provide consistent votes
Or a charity, run by private individuals with limited resources, who have an incentive to get people out of dependency?
>>70541383
Add to this that when people aren't being taxed to shit, they give far more to charity as they have more money to spend, and looking after people isn't the responsibility of govt anymore
>>70533251
They also tend to be the most autistic
>>70540537
Because:
A- a corporate war is expensive and not a sure thing. If store C did it, store A and B could do a undercutting even more agressive, wait for store C to bankrupt, and then jack up the prices again, pretty much what they are doing with oil right now
>Jacking up the prices can be very profitable
>>70541137
I'm saying you are going to have TONS of beggars. Every single person that was on welfare, in the projects, lived at a shelter, hangs out at the YMCA, the kids who have no money and used to play sports at the government funded community center. They are all looking for food, and there's no welfare checks so we are hungry now. There's no OSAP, the kids aren't very motivated to go to college. No one funds NASA. No armies, some guys from Singapore just landed in California and it looks like they took one of the stadiums by force. YES I'm sure all these things MIGHT have a solution to them, but I'm pretty damn confident no one knows it because it's batshit insane
>>70541157
>why would anyone want to maintain their ability to move goods and services.
Gee I wonder why. Just because the government doesn't exist doesn't mean people just stop wanting things.
Why do you think the government is some kind of end all be all of morality?
>>70541272
So you are suggesting I go to the church. Now instead of having dignity and getting to go look for jobs every day and I have my own home, I'll just GO TO THE CHURCH and sit in the pews and beg for coins! HEY WHAT THE HELL ARE ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE DOING HERE, AREN'T THEY SUPPOSED TO BE AT THE SHELTER.....OH WAIT....
>>70540601
>>70540653
A store doesn't open overnight. And store A and B could sign a deal with company V that controls the roads leading to the city that explicitly denies the usage of roads to every company that supplies products to company C.
>>70541468
No they fucking won't! The people who don't give to charity will continue to not give to charity. They will stack their money just like they do now, except no one gets to take a little off the top, and it just builds and builds and builds and then their kids get it. Meanwhile the infrastructure of the city is going to shit
>>70541489
What is stopping D or E being set up when A and B begin to raise prices? What is stopping B exiting the cartel and undercutting A? It's much easier for companies to simply compete with one another competitively.
>>70541489
And then store D would show up (because what savvy businessman wouldn't want to try to undercut the competition and steal a huge chunk of their market share). A and B sell below cost until D goes out of business, raise prices again and then E shows up. etc.
A and B would have to perpetually sell their goods under cost to keep competitors from cropping up. Which is obviously not a sustainable business practice, they'd go under themselves eventually selling at a loss.
The whole concept is just asinine.
>>70541574
>What is charity
>What is more job creation
>Able people on welfare would rather starve to death than get a job
>>70541645
Do you have any idea how much road maintenance costs? Me neither but I bet its a fucking lot of money. Why would I pay for a road that was anywhere just a km or so from where Im going? Yknow what, Im gonna ride my bike and save money on this road, because perhaps I'm a prick? I'll just wait for all the roads to be built without me! I didn't want to do this, but I have to hang out the church every day until I get a job. The priest keeps asking me for donations because that's all public services run on now, but there's all the other lower class here and none of them have money either. So are we done yet or do you have a budget lined up
>>70541691
I'm saying if you have drug problems or are homeless the church can help you
In fact in my country the church helps the poor and homeless way more than the government
Who says you can't go look for jobs everyday and have a home?
When you were working did you spend it all on a katana collection you faggot? if so its your fucking fault and no one should bail you out
>>70541981
Ride your bike, fine by me.
You act like everyone else should give a shit
>>70541859
Then on top of that, let's imagine the company just says "hey guys just so u know we're the only job in town now and we're gonna pay u 5 bucks an hour until someone else shows up. Sry but that's libertarians for you! We could have gone lower but 5 is just a nice even number
>>70541785
Why do you think infrastructure would be payed for by charity? Infrastructure would be a business just like any other.
And do people not donate to charity today? They do, in fact, the richer you are, the more you tend to donate.
>>70542128
Go to the next town perhaps...? They won't have labor and they'll go out of business.
>>70533572
The article mentions nothing of IQ
>>70542025
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I have a pretty good sob story but I'm not looking for sympathy. But I will tell you this, I KNOW I'm a relatively good person who puts in a good 8 hour day at least, and without UI getting me back on my feet I might be dead, or leading a life of crime robbing your house. I remember times where I waited excitedly for a check at midnight, just so I could buy a shirt with a damn collar on it for an interview. Or will the church do that for me? Not in my country bud, the belief in the magical man in the sky is waning hard.
>>70541003
A monopoly implies a huge company with huge budget and unlimiited access to credit? Why wouldn0t they simply buy all the competition? Microsoft is doing it and they are very sucessfull. Whenever a small company with a good idea appears, Microsoft buys up their idea for a huge sum. This is how a monopoly would work. They don't need 100% of the market. Once they have a very good position on the market they make agressive marketing campaigns.
>It was the gov that stopped Microsoft from merging/buying up apple. Yes, it was your dreadfull gov that stopped a monopoly from appearing
>>70541981
You already pay for roads with your taxes. In fact, you pay for the roads all over the country that you never come within a thousand miles of.
>>70542068
I'm saying that by the time this is over, the roads will all be half-built, the stadiums and libraries and whatever the fuck else will fall apart. But its ok! Because everyone can keep their taxes, and everyone will distribute it perfectly just based on WHAT THEY WANT! It'll be great! That's my last word, stop trying Liberturrians
>>70542128
Seriously dude? If your town has shitty job prospects, then you move.
>>70541086
/leftypol/ != lefty/pol/
But my opinion of economics is that it is a meme deggre, and shouldn't be taken very seriously. It has the same validity has sociology in my opinion.
This last crysis showed us that economist know shit of what they are talking about
>>70541859
Here's a good example of what happens when a business tries to sell at a loss to drive their competitors out of business
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Henry_Dow#Breaking_a_monopoly
>Bromkonvention (German government-backed chemical cartel) warns Dow not to go international, threatens to flood market
>HH Dow says fuck you, sells internationally anyway
>Bromkonvention makes good on threat and dumps under cost bromide on market
>HH Dow, being the badass he is, buys up their underpriced bromide, slaps his companies name on it, and resells it at market price for a healthy profit
>plan totally backfires, Bromkonvention forced to concede to the smarter businessman and raises their bromide back to market price
>>70542384
Omg...we're talking about a Libertarian society, there wouldn't be any taxes. Am I being trolled at this point? I better leave knowing I'm right, per usual! I'M THE BEST!
>>70542440
But if everyone wants well maintained roads and building why would they fall into disrepair? Because you say so? Because the magical do no wrong government says so? If there's a service to be done someone will provide it because it benefits them directly. That's the entire idea behind getting a job.
>>70542500
Yes you are correct, normally when you have no money and down on your luck, you just need a little bit of support for that moving truck and some food in the fridge. But I don't get that any more. I can't move, I'm trapped. The streets it is, along with the rest of us, scratchin at ur windows
>>70541158
And while the new competitor doesnt appear? what prevents the monopolie from buying up the start up? What prevents the monopoly from suing the satrt multiple times for bullshit reasons?
>>70542335
You can't fathom that there might be organisations that are designed to help people in your circumstances? You live in Canada, the land of the bleeding heart liberal. You seriously think non-religious people are uncaring, heartless people?
>>70533572
>>70542299
Confirmed, no mention of IQ.
Although it goes into serious depth on some other things like personality traits, beliefs, and emotional responses.
>>70542649
Because if no one MAKES them split the money up evenly, not everyone is going to pay there share. Some won't pay anything at all, some guy will give all his money to the local sports stadium, some other guy just wants to cure breast cancer. If we don't have a system to vote and distribute this stuff, it doesn't work. End of story. I mean sure, I'm all for giving the government LESS power. But it needs to exist. Anyways vote Bernie
>>70542543
>literally incapable of telling the difference between a hypothetical answer and a statement of what is currently happening right now.
Please tell me I'm being rused. I though American education was suppose to be the worst.
>>70532974
Tested iq of 145 here, also libertarian
>>70542543
Dude. You can't be this stupid.
You are complaining about how expensive roads would be in a libertarian society.
I pointed out to you that in your current society, people not only already pay for roads, but they pay for ALL of the roads.
>>70542742
There's no courts, we're gonna have to figure out how to pay all of em. The government had a whole legal system set up. Who wants to be in charge of that? The judge won't work for free and we gotta pay a bunch of other ppl too, WHOS PAYING FOR THE LAW CHARITY? NOT FUCKING ME
>>70542742
What prevents a company from doing any of this right now? Absolutely nothing. Anti-trust laws aren't designed to prevent monopolies from forming, they punish monopolies after the fact. By the time the government even got around to taking standard oil to court, their market share had already eroded to 64% from a peak of 88% (thanks in part to their competitors starting to adopt the efficiencies and business practices they pioneered and that allowed them to gain so much market share to begin with).
>>70542818
But why would it not work? Why would people paying for what they want and getting it not work? Why is the government the ultimate authority on what a fair share is?
>>70541306
>Increasing prices means less profit in a place without competition
>>70541306
>What's stopping the shops where you live jacking up prices may I ask?
Anti monopoly laws. There is laws that prevent fixed prices from competitors (i.e. there are laws in place that prevent that store A and B raise the prices at the same time for arbitrary reasons)
>BUT THEY DON'T.
Because the Gov would fall on their asses to get those nice votes
>>70542925
Libertarianism is not anarchism.
>>70542859
I think we switched sides here. I think our current society IS better than a Libertarian society. I think we need to all pay for the roads equally, not run everything based on "charity" like is being suggested
>>70542742
>What prevents the monopoly from suing the satrt multiple times for bullshit reasons?
no government to get bribed by large companies into passing anti-small business laws?
>>70542925
You're dangerously close to equating libertarianism with anarchy
Do you not remember ron paul? Do you remember his speeches?
Libertarians don't want to abolish government, they want to greatly reduce its power and scope
courts would indeed exist
>>70543008
>Anti monopoly laws.
Again, anti-trust punishes people after the fact. It does not not require a business to submit a request to the government for approval every time they want to change the price of a product and prevent businesses from attempting to engage in predatory pricing or other shady tactics
>>70543015
You're right actually, I have become confused on the meaning of Libertarianism. I guess it depends HOW libertarian we are talking. I think we would revert back into having all our current systems still in place. But we can split the roads if u want
>>70541807
>It's much easier for companies to simply compete with one another competitively.
No, no, no, it's way much easier to fix prices amoung themselves.
>>70541859
>>70541807
But what about the meanwhile? Would people be forced too buy products overpriced?
>>70543031
We're saying charity should be run by charity. Not by state agencies
most other things would be run from the desire to make profit
>>70543031
Why should we pay for all roads equally? If roads are some kind of unholy money sink why should we all have to pay for some middle of nowhere road that 1 guy uses twice a day?
>>70543272
Roads and sewers are not charity, they are very desirable commodities
>>70537655
You had no money after 2 years of work because our government takes 30% of your income, and then 13% of every dollar you spend left over.
>>70543031
Who the fuck said roads would be payed for by charity? Who ever has an interest in the roads existence will pay for it.
Charitable organisations would take over some of the role that welfare currently fills, for-profit organisations would take over the rest. Welfare is the only issue that I mentioned, regarding charity.
You are so frustrating to talk to, its like you can't read.
This is where government education gets you I guess.
>>70543263
Possibly. But again, that's no different than the status quo, where a business could attempt the price gouge right now, at least until they were stopped by competitors, pissed off consumers, anti-trust laws, etc.
>>70542976
>>70543008
There are laws in place
>>70543263
>without government interference killing small businesses it's easier for competitors to out perform larger businesses.
>NUH UH
okay.
After lurking these libertarian threads for a while, I swear I see the same guys here, posting the same things over and over again.
>>70543303
Because you can use it one day
>>70543272
Charity is run by charity too. Wlfare is not charity
