/Pol/grammers -- Programmers on /pol/
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It seems like our field is getting cucked hard at the moment with an artificial push for more women and minorities to join so they can lower our salaries.
This is probably the last generation of real programmers. In a few years if you're not only in the field your degree is as good as a Women's studies degree. I just hope I'm not too late senpai
Studying IT here, haven't really seen anything of the sort. Not in Flanders anyway, they probably have 60% woman quotas in Wallonia already.
>>70519085
they want to send all the technical jobs to india and leave the PM & BA jobs here
>>70519085
I want to become a programmer. Is there a list of what it takes in terms on knowledge and experience?
>>70519341
Not as common now, they tried it and got fucked for it, because they had to pay actual people to redo all the poo work.
>>70519361
Mostly autism.
Nothing of the sort is happening here, yet.
There are some attempts though, but they are rebuffed and not taken seriously. The company I've worked for and many others openly name meritocracy as a core value.
>>70519085
Really sad to see, they'll regret it don't worry.
>>70519433
oy vey
>>70519085
>mfw 10 years from now /pol/ is full of people saying that STEM is for niggers and women and true white men major in women's studies
>>70519361
Patience.
>>70519425
But yeah this an alternative if you have an obsessive personality.
>>70519085
It's not like managers were listening sjw more than listening to the customers.
They pay for the competences, the results.
If you follow some "values", you just get bad results and get kicked out.
>>70519361
It is a diverse field so you can apply computing to anything. Just find that thing you like to do program for. From a language perspective there is low to high which means that if you write in a high level language you dont need to be really good at math, so if you suck it wont be a big deal.
>>70519085
Isn't that happening in every field
everywhere
in every aspect of society
?
>>70519085
What you're seeing is the equivalent of ITT Tech Institutes. These programming bootcamps target women and minorities and the most they can really do is manipulate strings and solve simple math problems.
Most of them will probably give up when it comes to the concept of databases and algorithms.
>>70519739
But I've got mine and I am insecure and selfish...dont want to share
>>70519552
Fucking kek. Concerning that /pol/ always pisses against the wind, that scenario is not even that far from reality.
But I rather think they'll just say education is for women and niggers and true white men should just move into the woods and live in shacks.
>>70519841
Brogrammer
>>70519085
>>70519247
>women and minorities become "programmers"
>spread horrendous technical debt wherever they go
>salaries for actual programmers increase
How is this a bad thing, family? You really think Shuhmeeka and JayQuan are going to be writing anything useful, much less critical? They'll essentially be building Ikea bookshelves and calling themselves carpenters.
There are going to be languages so abstracted (read: slow, bloated, utter horseshit) that the syntax will probably look more like HTML than C. If you're two steps above "fucking retarded", it's gonna be a gravy train.
Nobody needs software developers in Germany
All they want are web designers with cms skills for browser land
>>70519085
You either can code, or you can't. A good coder will always make a good amount of money. Will companies really sabotage themselves by hiring sub-par coders only because they're women or minorities?
Pic related - show me how many women have ever mastered C++.
>>70520194
>pic related
>>70519085
Those are not very dangerous since they won't get many people interested or who will stick it out. The big problem is importing unskilled indians en mass based on shitty or fake qualifications.
CS student here- I'm fucked
>>70519991
>There are going to be languages so abstracted (read: slow, bloated, utter horseshit)
Well, I guess it's true from what we're seeing with Java being the only thing they teach anymore.
>>70520384
>hating on Java
hi there /g/
>>70519085
I code day and night. I earn less than 11k in a European based multination company. I should get more salary.
>stay out of shitty open source projects
>especially hosted in places like github
>code just for yourself
>stay 8 hours at work, while avoiding discussing things like feminism or SJWism like an autist would, while doing jackshit and getting your paycheck at the end of the month
Life can be easy, people just tend to fuck it up
>>70520483
Fun fact: in French, object-oriented programming is called Programmation Orientée Object: POO.
>>70520611
POO
IN
GNU
>>70520611
kek this is true
You can always become a sysadmin, IT departments have very few women mostly.
>>70519361
You can either do it, or you can't. Learning how to program is essentially learning how to channel an ability you already have through a strict set of rules. If you like puzzles, you'll like programming.
That's for algorithmic programming, of course. A lot of what programmers do with existing APIs is no different from what builders do to build a house. Anyone can do it.
>>70520410
Anyone with any decent aesthetic sense, when it comes to programming, hates Java.
Real, satisfying programming is about building abstractions of your choosing atop raw data, not instantiating a bean factory pattern dependency injector.
>>70520410
>People should only learn one language, and that language should do all the heavy lifting for you
>A language should be so standardized across computers that higher end computers don't realize their full potential
>Semiphores are hard, let's just use monitors and call it a day
>Multiple class inheritance is too difficult to think about
>printf or cout<< or print is too easy, let's say System.out.print
>Also Main() is too simple too, what if it confuses people
Considering all "eggselent programmerz xD" will mostly focus on frontend fields and can't do algorithms for shit, I couldn't really be less bothered
>>70520323
I'm a CS student too and I'm confident that with a degree from my university I'll find a well-paid job.
>>70520125
If you have skills to be a software developer, then learning some CMS shit (or basically anything else CS/software related) should a piece of cake.
>>70520759
no one forces you to use any beanfactories. you mistake using shitty libraries with actual coding.
>>70520767
>-t. c programmer
still working on your newest fizzbutt?
>>70520759
You're building a straw man. You don't have to do retarded stuff in Java.
A lot of the stuff that makes the world run is written in Java.
Meanwhile, no one has ever done anything of value in Haskell beyond monad tutorials.
>>70520767
being forced to study Java in college here after getting a taste of C++ in highschool:
yup.
Particularly fuck what they did to my precious cout, cin and main. Why do I need to fucking make a new scanner object just to take input? And why does it keep throwing memory leak warnings? And why can't any of my profs explain how to properly close it afterwards to stop the memory leak? is the whole world on crazy pills?
>>70519085
Dunno, the only woman in my team is on her first job, and is already more efficient than some fucktards with a handful of years of experience.
Arabs are a mixed bag, so far I'ver had about 40% competent guy, 40% bullshitters and 20% atrocious liars and assholes.
The only black I've worked with is (very) slightly above average, but insanely hard to communicate with due to his horrible accent.
So no, if you work in industry, I'd say it's still alright.
>>70519341
The only problem is that indians are fucking stupid.
Source: work with indian developers.
I'm also sick and tired of all those WOMEN IN TECH events and all that shit.
Oh you know how to code? Good for you, just show the code on github or something but stop bragging like it's an accomplishment because you're a girl.
My attitude now: pretend I give a shit and look the other way, laughing in my mind. Those movements are useless and spending mental energy on it is a waste.
>>70519085
Women are ruining it. And we can't say a godamn thing or we will lose our jobs. I'm a web dev and I fucking hate this.
>>70520978
Your professors can't figure that out? Jesus. Just close the scanner when your done using it.
>>70520911
He honestly has a good point when talking about semiphores and class inheritance ; hence why there are a thousand patterns to bypass those problems
What language do you recommend to a guy who don't have a clue on programming? Just for hobby and trying to do nice things.
>>70521022
Sometimes they're funny in how they take things literally, though.
I'm not worried.
Most women won't be 1) willing, or 2) able to do the work to get the degree in the first place. After that they still have to be able to produce.
The job I have opened because a woman got fired. The place I work for will shitcan you if you can't or aren't doing the work.
The places you have to worry about are the companies who diversity hire and then have enough money to keep a bunch of shitbags on board to keep their quotas full. A real company will fire them either way.
>being a code monkey
>assuming you have any value in that profession
L O L
>>70521137
python or C#
>>70521060
that made it throw an error when it tried to get any input
profs still had no explanation
>>70521137
It depends what you're trying to achieve, really.
For a beginner you can't really go wrong with Python. You can do almost everything: scripting, simple video games, statistics, etc.
>>70521076
multiple inheritance is with operator overloading the biggest cancer in c++. but no rather force such meme concepts on other languages for no apparent reason.
>>70520978
>I had 2 hours of [insert random programming language] at college and let me tell how shitty it is
>>70519085
I'm pretty sure many minorities have looked into this for a while.
>>70521137
What kind of nice things?
Python is a decent starting point to get into programming because it's easy to read/write
>>70521022
This
It doesn't matter though
you can now write seriously shitty code that is super inefficient because today's tech can blow through code with no problem.
My main job was fixing what the indians couldn't.
Currently hopping into a real IT position for support to get my "experience" so I can get a position I want. No indians though. Wish me luck senpai.
>>70520978
google it senpai, guarantee someone has had your issue before. I wish I had learned C# and C++ first.
>>70519552
>Hillary Clinton wins 2 consecutive presidential elections
>Establishes matriarchy
>Revokes 2nd amendment
>Country goes to shit with women leading STEM fields and leading roles in companies
>Revokes 22nd amendment
>Men are now oppressed, so women's studies turns contrarian (Become the male version of current feminists)
>Year 2040
>/pol/ armed with womens studies degrees retake the country from the matriarch and cuck women back into the kitchen
>>70521022
Most of the Indian engineers have sham qualifications and create more problems then they solve. Executives just like to feel like they are saving money even though it ends up wasting the time of real engineers. Indians from the upper classes can be pretty good though, but it seems they prefer to become doctors.
>>70521151
This tbqh senpai. Though if you're smart you can make yourself invaluable by jewing them.
Security seems safer, especially govment
>>70521213
What kind of cuck school are you going to?
>>70521225
>operator overloading
>bad
Because I shouldn't be able to say Integer++ means Integer = Integer +1 if my machine overlord tells me I can't.
Every time a JavaScript """Programmer""" talks to me like if it was on my level, I feel the need to reveal my power level.
And not just women, Js seems to attract the most effeminate of men.
I stay with c/c++/c#
I hate the java standard library, lang is ok and runtime is garbage.
>>70519085
Can't program for shit, so I took the Network Administration path instead.
>>70521363
yes because for every single person who does it right come 100 pasheed rashjeets who fuck it up. that's why it got cut. same goes for multiple inheritance.
>>70519085
for (int i=0;i<life.size;i++)
{
if (bernie || hillary)
{
suicide();
}
}
>>70520854
> If you have skills to be a software developer, then learning some CMS shit (or basically anything else CS/software related) should a piece of cake.
working with cms is pajeet tier
>>70519841
>Most of them will probably give up when it comes to the concept of databases and algorithms.
Databases are the easiest fucking part of software engineering.
Poo in the loos can be great programmers for the price. We hire 6 for $5000~ per year, and they are about as good as people we'd have to pay $70k~ here.
PM for medical billing software.
>>70520125
Are you a Teenager? I've built multiple software companies in Germany, all of them starving to find people that can do actual programming. We're trying EVERYTHING to find people and the salaries even for Juniors are on a steep rise. We're now in the process of importing South Americans and East Europeans because our own IT Education System shits out only Google-Level people or absolute shitheads. Nothing in between.
>>70521022
this.
cto: let's save some money by outsourcing
...3 months later...
cto: why are we having all these production issues?
sigh.
>>70521399
You mad cause we taking over, m8?
>>70521399
> Js seems to attract the most effeminate of men.
Why is this true? I'm not saying it's not true, because it is, but what reason do you think makes it true.
>Know a JS programmer who always talks about it
>3' long hair
>literally got cucked and talks about it
>>70521508
>We should make programming as accessible to retards as possible
>Rashjeets fucking up is a bad thing even though it means more work, and fairly easy work, for actual programmers
>>70521561
if you werent cucks this would have been cool
>>70521561
Hire me senpai.
>>70521609
>look how elitist I am writing fizzbutts in c
you are the cancer of g
>>70520687
kek
underrated
>>70521022
I remember my company closed down its Indian office after just two years because the hundreds of people there were less efficient than ten people back west.
Anyway, if you want to avoid outsourcing you should go for a Masters/PhD in a super-in-demand field. Basic codemonkey jobs are fucked.
I programming in verilog & vhdl. Fortunately sjw don't know about this yet. I think we are safe for at least another 5 years
>>70519387
>hey tried it and got fucked for it, because they had to pay actual people to redo
++
>>70520737
>You can either do it, or you can't.
++
>>70520231
Program terminated: Whoosh exception. (pic related was all the woman master programmers that exist)
>>70521763
SJW don't care about hardware design because it's not a "sexy" field.
No one cares about this shit, or PLC programming or whatever.
But Hollywood made a movie about Facebook. Everyone uses Apple, Google, Amazon, etc. So SJWs want a part of that power. In particular, they want to control media technology so they can spread their ideology.
>>70521515
What language is that?
>>70521609
>We should make programming as accessible to retards as possible
When you work on a project with more than 10 people on it you'll learn to enjoy those limitations more than you'd expect.
Yes, if it's you and 2 other people and you are in charge you can write your entire project in Lisp, re-writing the entire language as you go along, and with a strict enough set of rules it'll even work.
Try that with even just one, much less a few, pajeet-tier people and you'll want to choke on a tailpipe within the first week.
>>70520759
S-senpai, is it fun to program/code? I've always wanted to do it. Can I start by being self taught?
>>70520194
> Will companies really sabotage themselves by hiring sub-par coders only because they're women or minorities?
They'll throw themselves infront of a train and get ground to dust for their Liberal/Jewish/Marxist gods.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemyatt/2015/11/20/marissa-mayer-case-study-in-poor-leadership/#7c551b4d3795
>>70521865
c++ or could be c#
but .size is for vectors
If I wanted to learn to program in Python what software should I download to get started? I wanted to make a program that reads tarot cards. Sort of like the game 'taboo' on nes but simpler.
>>70521626
What is your Background and your own presumed Skill Level? Field of interest? We make Software that people use to make a living, not some degenerate marketing Bullshit that doesn't matter.
>>70521763
>verilog & vhdl
The pain.
Why are hardware languages so verbose.
>>70521700
I've literally been on /g/ once, looked at camera then left.
But what is the cancer is the kind of programmer that feels the need to have all his tools built for him already. He needs a special hammer for every single nail, because learning how to make hammers is too much work. Options, options that you don't even need to use, are too scary for you, so you use a language that people make workarounds to fix the shortcomings. You'd rather have java's dumb version of multiple inheritance than a simple effective method because you have to have your special two inheritance hammer
>>70519085
>It seems like our field is getting cucked hard at the moment
It's just you. Nobody in Poland treats women serious. They struggle to learn Python but we let them have their "code meetings". We have to find wifes somewhere, ya?
>>70521931
Download the community edition of this: https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/
And Python from python.org
>more women and minoritues joining field is a bad thing
If you arent an entrepreneur you massive faggot
Assembly is guaranteed to attract 0 SJW's...its too hard.
>>70521922
Perhaps life is an object with a size member variable?
>>70521609
IMO it's because JS is so easy to learn and fuck up that anybody can "learn" it so it attracts a crowd of stupid people. Among those people are a lot of cucks and SJW who proclaim themselves as programmers because they merge branches on github saying they corrected typos in all the comments.
It's especially true for NodeJS ; not so long ago an issue was opened because the "suicide" keyword command was considered too triggering :^)
https:// github.com/nodejs/node/issues/3721
>>70521211
>>70521223
>>70521299
Thanks bros. Will try puthon, I have found this http://learnpythonthehardway.org/ I like to learn things in the hard way.
>>70522002
The market is too slow to let autists worry about the exact implementation. Our product turnaround time (using poo in loos and a few USA workers) is around 2 months from planning to finish.
>>70522017
awesome thanks
>>70521145
I've definitely noticed that, too. Never assume anything either. Half the time I used to just chalk it up to 'cultural misunderstanding' but sometimes I swear they we're fucking with me on purpose.
>>70521922
Thanks, my only xp with codes are from looking through game files to edit certain things for 1337 hax. No idea about what the differences in programming languages are, so I was trying to figure out what I can understand naturally. Does learning C++/C# pay well?
>>70522002
In the Real World where adults live, where you build products and stuff that schedules your planes, balances your bank account, trades your stocks and so on, you don't get the opportunity to rewrite your own TLS implementation or TCP/IP stack.
For most problems the language is rarely the limiting factor anyway.
>>70519085
I only program in Ruby because it was designed by the superior Japanese mind. I would never use a programming language designed by Amerifats.
>>70522002
more retarded elitist talk. languages are a tool and not the means to stroke your own dick on how masterful you use multiple inheritance and whatnot.
>interest in programming starts 10 years ago
>eventually become a competent programmer
>after some years, field is suddenly under siege from SJWs
>all you wanted to do was quietly write good software but now risk being demonized and doxed if you're dealing with the types of software popular with normalfags, especially games
JUST
>>70521223
Python's not particularly useful for learning because the learning material always, always glosses over teaching much about data structures and algorithms. And what is programming if not the employment of data structures and algorithms to solve problems?
>>70521888
Yes and Yes
Pick a language e.g. Python is really easy to learn, Java is a bit less easy but has a lot more community support since it's a lot "bigger" language. You can learn in any language but those two are fairly good first choices. If you post asking for advice on what begginer language to use be aware it will start a flame war on what language is best.
Then read through a textbook on that language, do all the example exercises, and then choose something interesting as a project to be going on with. It doesn't have to be anything particularly cool or world-changing, but something with a decent project scope (for a beginner) e.g. a menu driven caesar cipher encryption/decryption tool (that was my first programming assignment at uni).
The main thing is to sit down and actually write some code, get some experience.
>>70522017
>pycharm
Not Sublime Text or Ipython in any console.
Anyway, the guy should get Gnu/Linux and use it. Setting up a coding environment on Windows is a bitch for a noob.
Also, Python 3.x sucks
>>70522034
>Assembly is hard
Assembly is quite easy. It's merely time-consuming and often for very minor gains.
Hence why we write stuff in C and use inline assembly and/or intrinsics instead.
>>70521869
I don't mean to give the implication that standards are completely wrong, but if you can't understand something as simple as inheriting things, than maybe you shouldn't be programming, or at least not using that tool, seeing as how you can't get around it just like how Java does.
I don't even hate Java, it has it's uses, but the fact that its treated as the only language now is quite stupid. Even if all the projects you ever work on are just Java, you should have had at least a taste of not only other languages but other paradigms while in school
>>70521950
What city?
>>70522166
c++ pays well cos every game ever uses it but its also fairly difficult compared to c# which is quite easy.
I'm a bit of a noob myself at programming but i can make basic c# programs that use WPF lol
>>70521978
Vhdl is strongly typed. You can be more wild with verilog.
The objective is to explicitly do b stuff rather than implicit.
>>70522228
C# and C++ were designed by Europeans.
>>70519085
Thinking of learning a coding language seriously. Doing it on CodeAcademy but that's only a brief outlook.
Suggestions for best ones to learn?
>>70521022
Pretty much. I've found that Indians tend to be shit coders and shit instructors. They can't explain things for shit.
>shit country
>shitting streets
>awful languages
>awful accents in English
>lazy
>slimy and perverted
>ugly
Do Indians have ANYTHING going for them except a moderately interesting religion and some ok food?
>>70520719
>You can always become a sysadmin
You mean a Stack Overflow user?
>>70519085
It's fine in Ukraine. I can do racist jokes and say nigger without consequence and we had goo laugh about EU niggergration.
>>70522345
Don't talk to the weeb.
>>70522177
This. A million times this. I'm so fucking fed up with these assholes that think it's a sign of Skill to only code on the Commandline, Setting up a buildpipeline that that uses 5 preprocessors and linters and what not only to then fuck up a simple merge or the synchronous usage of git submodules.
No you are not a skilled Programmer because your Code doesnt shit itself in your testcases.
Most CS grads are shit gurgling retards. Not even counting women. How do we fix this?
>>70520759
Some people program as a job, you know. Worrying about aesthetics is nice for your little pet project nobody will ever see or use.
>>70522069
>the hard way
Shitty books the entire lot. Zed Shaw is a hack trying to make a quick buck.
Good Python books:
Think Python: How to Think Like a Computer Scientist.
Introduction to Computation and Programming Using Python, Revised And Expanded Edition.
You can also get started by just hopping onto Code Academy. The most important thing to learn programming is easily coding a lot.
>>70521950
Still studying and mostly interested in algorithm stuff. Runtime tests and so on. Not really a fan of software engineering. My own presumed skill level currently isn't very high but I at least believe that that can change pretty fast, don't really need to tie that to a language since languages are generally understood pretty fast (depending on how obscure they are). I have an 1.5 average grade at least. No work experience though.
I'm an uncut diamond trust me :^)
>>70522348
Didn't they have ice cream with a picture of Hitler on?
>>70522228
Ruby is the worst shit desu, I used it on commercial projects tho since Rails is faster.
To be honest, Europeans are the master mind of programming languages and IT autism on general.
>>70522348
>Suggestions for best ones to learn?
Think of an application and try to fucking do it.
Use SuperUser and StackOverflow if you get stuck. Google/DDG/Bing/Yandex/Ixquick are your friends.
>>70522177
Sure, but still, why not learn the basics of harder things. Learning these things will help you out even if you don't directly use them.
>>70522231
If I was stroking my dick I would complain how C has if statements, I just hate the kind of people who are too lazy to even try to expand their horizons the slightest.
>>70522408
You hire Slavs who are the best coders and hackers. Prove me wrong.
>>70522301
Game industry isn't that large and is notorious for burning people out. I wouldn't recommend choosing a language based on its popularity in the gaming industry unless one really wants to work in the game industry and likes nothing more than programming 60 hours a week. Of course you can sometimes find a company that has better conditions but its pretty rare.
>>70522243
Can do
>>70522509
here my ip: 127.0.0.1
haxxx me, faggit
Anyone can learn how to code. But after that real work requires strong logical ability and knowledge of your program subject.
I'm sure most of the minorities will not be willing to actually use their brain to create difficult stuff.
>>70522266
It's not about not understanding the actual programming concept, but the way people typically use it.
If you're ever worked on an actual project, it's been worked on by dozens of people, with different skill levels, some are not working here anymore, and so on.
With operator overloading, everyone expects a certain behavior when it comes to arithmetic operations (and even then, most people don't understand floating point operations), but once another programmer starts doing something clever with it, everything goes out the window.
In the real world you don't actually add or divide objects.
Delphi/Object Pascal fag here.
I do not know a single female who is half decent at coding. I would be for a push of educated females to join our ranks.
Also about robots taking our jobs, there is always sys/network admin, hacking, and more advanced coding for us.
>>70519085
There's less than 5% on my course. I'm studying in a >95% white area though. There's a lot of Chinese students, but they aren't on my course.
>>70522397
This is Skill. Because most of development tools have a CLI as a primary interface.
git commit -a
>>70522436
ROOKIE DETECTED
>>70522341
I don't mind really, I just feel thatif you're going to rip off ADA you can at least make it as clean as the original.
>>70522605
Exactly - who programs the robot?
>>70522252
>Python 3.X sucks
Fucking python 2.X users
have fun programming in a dead language that's already EOL and won't be getting any updates at all (even security) past 2020
There's literally 0 reason to be writing python2 code these days unless it's bugfixing an existing program.
anytime I see someone talking about how 3.x sucks and 2.x is the best version of python I think of some elderly dude who insists on speaking church latin and then gets mad when no one knows what the fuck he's talking about
PLEASE move to a modern language
>>70522509
I don't know why, but you're right.
Slav developers are top notch. Really good at fundamental stuff, algorithms, system programming, etc.
>>70522586
I didn't say use overly dumb shit, I was talking about OO in general, the only example I used was ++,
Only thing I'm a newb with is the QT library.
OP is a faggot.
Frameworks have improved, programming is easier.
Unless you're in a good industry doing R&D; the programming required is easy.
I think the future of your standard book read dime a dozen programmer is management & business roles.
Even a shit programmer can do the job of 2 managers.
>>70522509
What kind of compsci programs do slavs have?
>>70522612
I suppose that majority of this scum is in the USA: MIT, Stanford and so on.
>>70522408
>How do we fix this?
Educate them on the way things work in your company and throw them a couple of good books to work through on their own time.
>>70522559
Gotcha!
>>70522713
Well that and various encryption mehtods.
>>70522045
My eyes hurt after reading this
>>70519085
>push for more women and minorities to join so they can lower our salaries
They will actually create more work for everyone who really know his shit well.
>>70522798
He's installed a firewall. Can you hack the Gibson?
>>70519085
I can ship your job to India for a tenth what it costs me to pay you, then overwork some kids out of college to clean up what they send back on the promise that they may one day be management.
Why did you fall for the STEM meme?
>>70521888
listen to what that other fag said, the best way to start imo is to have a project you want to complete so you are actually working towards some end goal (ie make a website that takes in the value of pizza sizes from two different places and the price, and see which is the better deal)
raspberry pi's are accessible to you and cheap if you need ideas for a project to start with.
Are there any other famous, high-level programming tricks like the fast inverse square root that are very difficult to figure out by yourself and make you think "how the hell did they come up with that?"
>>70522690
My whole University use python 2.X and will continue to do so. People who created the existing software in python 2.X are long dead. Nobody will rewrite every fucking tool to python 3.X just because some fucks wished to create a new language. If it works, don't fuck with it.
>>70522045
Further proof that Github should never be used for anything but marketing yourself to prospective employers.
>>70522881
Enjoy the shitty feedback when your program crashes after the user doesnt enter anything at the login screen.
>>70522704
We actually give a fuck about theory. Westerners learn how to do shit but they don't understand why it works and how can they make it better. On Universities you sometimes have to write algorithms on paper. No Google and stuff like that. That makes you think.
So now that github's been compromised, what are you guys using as an alternative?
>>70522734
I imagine that is the case. Shame really.
>>70522045
>"I'm on replacing problematic terminology >gradually, with aliases. For the kill and suicide >terms, it seems to me like stop and stopped >actually makes more sense, especially across >language barriers. The master and worker >terminology could also be parent and child, >which seems a bit friendlier.
>Sadly, the whole unix process model is >overridden with terminology related to violence >and slavery..."
Dear god what the fuck did I just read
>>70519085
I have no problem finding and keeping a job in software engineering. Then again, I don't whine about the SJW bogeyman like /pol/.
>>70522709
Let me reiterate, if it's okay to say x.add() then x++ should probably be okay.
>>70523006
Compromised by what?
>>70522881
That might work for simple systems.
But for the software controlling your plane, your trading system, your DBMS, your operating system and so on, that doesn't work, you need actual experts.
>>70522683
Apparently ADA is sw. Whereas this v's are firmware
I don't know why programmers resort to "appeal to lack of experience" so often.
>yeah well if you ever worked on a large project before with 1,000 indians
>yeah well call me when you've done more than fizzbuzz
>if you don't use inheritance wherever possible you're a total dilettante
>wow dude you criticized an aspect of a language i use??? enjoy your haskell, lol one on uses that
>>70522891
Quake 3's clipmodel algorithms are very odd but have a sort of insane, brutal logic behind them.
Unix's famous "you are not expected to understand this" section of the scheduler is another weird one, humorous but but not very interesting.
>>70522727
>300+ million Slavs
>what programs do you have?
Can you be more specific?
I personally write software for Bioinformaticians in Python, C and Fortran.
>>70519361
Math
>>70522687
Moreover, I convinced that humans mustn't do monkey-tier work. The more stupid jobs will be acquired by AI, the more PhD will be in Math among human.
>>70523039
our DBMS (MSSQL + our our proprietary one) is coded by poo in loos. You can get a temporary contract with a poo in loo for $50k that's easilly worth a $120k~ worker. You just need to get a decent contract agency and tell them you MUST have premium workers.
>>70519361
Patience, math and logic
Logic especially
majority of programming is keeping track of a web of objects, thinking about how they interact and what they need to do
good programmers know how to make sure that web is neatly organised and not tangled
>>70523194
Is Ruby a good first programming language to start with ?
How many years does it take from "basic programming knowledge" to "able to get freelance gigs" with Ruby/Rails ?
Also studying I.T i decided to focus on networks its a mans job and they are no faggots or women in this particular field
>>70523031
When I do x++, code I've written thousands of times in many languages in many years I expect a very particular type of behavior.
If you screw up and throw exceptions, add other side effects or what the fuck ever in the implementation of your operator, then you've destroyed any trust I can have in that concept, forever.
It takes one idiot to add one log statement to make me distrust that concept. When I do x++ I know what to expect. When I do x.foo() I know I should expect anything.
>>70523004
>On Universities you sometimes have to write algorithms on paper. No Google and stuff like that.
That's the case here as well.
The basic Algorithms class exam I took a couple of years ago gives you problems that you are then required to write your own algorithm for (in text or pseudocode) following a particular design paradigm like divide-and-conquer, greedy algorithms and similar.
I don't think a single CS class actually allowed anything more than pen, paper and occasionally a calculator on the exams.
>>70522043
java
>>70522734
My CS program is 95% Chinese in a class of 200ish? TBF, if you include the people on sandwich year placements, it goes down to maybe 90%
>>70519085
>implying programmers salaries are low because of minorities and not because mathematicians do your job better
>>70523277
>not liking your ++ operator to send launch codes to Pakistan
>>70523248
No, it isn't.
SERIOUS POST for /pol/acks programmers
How would you go about transitioning from software engineer to product manager?
I love coding but I want to move to a different job, and I know myself, product management is perfect for me. I already started a startup so I guess I have kind of a fit background, I have a MS in CS.
Product management at Google would be my dream job. How do I go for it?
>>70522045
Just suicide me senpai
>>70523277
>When I do x.foo() I know I should expect anything.
Fair enough, that's a pretty good point.
>>70523248
I've never used ruby and have no idea how it works so I can't really say
I learnt with java, then moved onto C# and C++
>>70522853
He's smarter than I thought.
>>70523338
Social skills
proven experience in the field and the ability to manage people
>>70523338
Look at the qualifications posted for the job and work towards them.
Divide and conquer is the basis of an entire set of algorithms did you write them all down or do you just not know?
Who /Sysadmin/ masterrace here?
what does a contemporary programmer have to know about unix and windows architecture?
>>70522551
If you know C++, you know everything.
>>70522964
>caring about user feedback
>in this our current year
I'll sell as much as I can and the users will move on in a year regardless of the quality. Flappy Birds got popular, the users are morons who will buy anything. All I care about is making money.
>>70523039
You think that matters. In this our current year.
>>70523323
>Write me a GUI application in R
>>70522618
Being fast, concise and experienced in using the Commandline is a skill. Using it for everything is cargoculting. In Programming there are a lot of things which really really benefit from proper visualization and guidance.
My worst experience in that regard was someone working on database structure and management who sneered at using something like heidisql, navicat or the million other tools, but opted for the CLI. 3 days later the PM of the project with 0 Coding Skills did the Tasks Himself in half a day because the Coder was horribly slow, simply because he had to write Queries for every little thing that are one click actions in a GUI...
>>70522243
Is javascript good for learning the basics?
>>70519085
Is C# degenerate?
>>70523564
That and PHP will wake you up to world of programming.
>>70522551
>>70522301
Thanks senpai, honestly I wouldn't mind working 60 hours a week.
What other options are there? I know SQL is pretty large and easy to read from my experience in my past jobs, but I wouldn't feel passionate about it.
What other languages are there for someone who is creative, hard-working(willing to overcome anything difficult) and disgruntled at the current state of gaming companies?
>>70522509
For some reason this is true, chinese as well.(China is pig)
>>70520854
>I'm a CS student too and I'm confident that with a degree from my university I'll find a well-paid job.
Bet you're from some shitty Brno university.
>>70523510
>"Flappy Bird"
Go fucking create a serious piece of software that isnt made in 3 fucking days, make it full of bugs, then sell it, and see how many fucking people complain. Your rep will be ruined as well.
>>70523609
Yes. I need to write an evolutionary algorithm to solve MSA problem. I need to use Windows in a VM because MONO is fucking shit. Thanks Microsoft!
>>70523609
It's a really nice language
More advanced than java but not as manual as c++
>>70523613
>PHP
>Good for learning basics
lol
>>70523448
I'm assuming this is a response to me?
We were required to solve particular problems writing our own algorithms. It didn't really matter if it was an adapted mergesort or some hodgepodge of your own as long as it fell into the required paradigm (incremental algos, divide-and-conquer ones, decrease and conquer are those I recall being mentioned) and that they were efficient or fulfilled a Big O requirement.
There were also questions about particular algorithms but those were fairly easy in comparison.
>>70523760
You know that it is a 101 shit in here, right?
>>70523705
I know a guy that emulated an mmo gaming server with it.
>>70523613
>be american
>master php
>paid less than a shit tier plumber
world of programming awaits
Google for "sexism silicon valley".
There was a major media campaign against IT workers similar to how SJWs suddenly decided gamers are sexist after Anita Sarkeesian. Basically they go after every male-majority community with the same scheme (now they're even attacking board-game neckbeard communities kek).
>>70522426
Nice, I have found these books. Now, can you recommend something for C#?
I always wanted to make a side scroller game with rpg elements, I know this is complex, but now I have *free* time, so...
>>70523840
Have you tried beating them up and say that women and men should be treated equally?
>>70519085
Bruh there is a constant need for more programmers and you shouldent worry.
>>70523838
It takes a damn lot to master programming, maybe more than I have. But I can still read C++ and just about any other language.
>>70523799
You mean the thread or the algo stuff?
Cause it was the Basic Algos course everyone was required to take.
>>70523868
If your doing this for video games wouldn't it make sense to learn more about a game engine or whatever? Though I think unity uses c#.
>>70523840
When will they go after garbage collection? Or elevator repair
>>70519361
Logic mostly, just start our with Python its super easy and you have a lot of online tutorials.
Well in a Tetris sense he is right, theres probably more broken PHP Code out there that needs to be fixed than any other language combined. You can get your hands very early on and see motivating results. The pain and frustration comes much later.
Its similar to JS, you don't really learn the fundamentals, but it takes you in the neighborhood like a good looking russian prostitute and then you can still decide for one of their more docile and sensible woman.
>>70523983
I'm talking about the algos.
I remember having similar problems during first year course of Algorithms and Data Structures on local University of Technology and Science.
>>70523868
Probably something like Head First C#, C# in Depth, CLR via C Sharp, C# 6.0 and the .NET 4.6 Framework.
There's probably a bit of overlap in there but those are the books i've saved up for learning C# more indepth myself.
And if you want to make games just download Game Maker or Unity and start fiddling around with that.
>>70523705
Well in a Tetris sense he is right, theres probably more broken PHP Code out there that needs to be fixed than any other language combined. You can get your hands dirty very early on and see motivating results. The pain and frustration comes much later.
Its similar to JS, you don't really learn the fundamentals, but it takes you in the neighborhood like a good looking russian prostitute and then you can still decide for one of their more docile and sensible woman.
>>70521022
But they'll work 140 hours per week on easy shit and barely get it done in time. Such good value
>>70519085
https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941
>>70523645
>what is Windows ME?
>>70521755
yep, my company tried outsourcing some projects to India and had to scrap the entire thing after two years because it was so terrible.
Can anyone comment on what my chances for getting a code monkey job are?
Education: Mechatronica (MBO 4/community college), currently in my last year and doing an internship as a PLC programmer (Siemens TIA portal) for a total of 20 weeks. My assignment is in the oil and gas industry. My boss already said i'm faster and produce better work than a lot of higher educated interns he had, although he does think i'm a bit of an autist.
I have some experience with C fucking around with sqlite, libcurl and libtcod. I also did about 15 projecteuler problems in C and I am currently making a simple android game.
By the way, faculties that are doing real science in here are /pol/ as fuck. Feels good. Avoid anything related to humanities. Burgerflippers are getting infiltrated by feminist/gender bullshit. Right now we moved their Faculty away from the main University campus. Let's see if they die out naturally or do we have to actually fire all of them.
>>70523564
I would say no.
While javascript is easy enough to learn, and has a lot of resources available, it's an extremely bad language for beginners since quirks in the language (such as the type system and equality operators) make it possible to do things that cannot be done in more sensibly designed languages.
At least in my experience, people who pick up javascript as a first language experience a lot of difficulty adjusting to something which has a lot stronger type system.
Also, people get confused between Java and Javascript, when in reality javascript has nothing to do with Java. I've seen people posting on /g/ asking how to compile javascript, or how come their java code doesn't work in a web browser. Grim stuff.
>>70523491
It still takes time to get up to speed on other languages. C++ is a solid foundation but its not going to get you hired for jobs using other languages unless you have a few years of work experience with it.
>>70523627
If you are asking specifically about useful for the game industry, after C++ is probably C# but only due to Unity engine. Scripting languages like LUA are also used but don't waste your time with them unless you want to be a designer instead of a programmer. C could be useful but is not used as much these days outside of aging engines.
>>70523986
It is the equivalent of saying "Yeah sure I want to be a professional driver, but only with automatic gears."
There comes a point when you need to understand the logic behind your drag and drop, and you will also need to do some basic algorithms and data-modeling when making a game. Hell, Unity even accepts C# snippets for this exact purpose
>>70524084
Same here. We also had to develop our own castrated-into-the-oblivion-C-like-language parser as a part of the course project. Fun times.
>>70524084
Yeah, like I said it was the most basic one. (though it went into more interesting areas during the labs like cuckoo hashing since the guy in charge was an algo researcher)
More indepth algo for big data and geometrical problems were optional courses.
Just saying that we supposed 'westerners' don't get to google our way through algorithms.
>>70524240
Better than 80% of hirees if you have a portfolio to show for any of that desu.
>>70519085
I interviewed some chick for a programming job once. She wanted 30k more than the guy we hired and had only half the qualifications and experience. She tried to bullshit her way through some technical questions. Honestly I was disappointed, programming is such a sausagefest we could honestly use a little T&A, if only they were competent.
So relax bros, they aren't gonna take your jobs any more than the poo in loos, because at the end of the day programming is the realm of INTJs and we actually have to get shit done.
>>70524311
I used to get frustrated that they make us to write libraries from scratch, but now I understand how everything works. You create your own library, compare it with the present ones and see how you can improve.
>>70524084
Data structures same stuff here
>>70521137
Go here first, bro:
>http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
Python is very forgiving if you're new and learning it will give you skills that transfer over to every other language you learn.
Once you get a handle on Python, you can try this:
>http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book/
Or go your own way and learn something else. Programming is basically like learning a real language; you need to use it, practice with it, expose yourself to it etc.
>>70524428
For multiple platforms?
>>70524470
Zed Shaw is and remains a hack.
And I thought he quit on that C book because C-fags triggered him by calling it shit?
>>70519085
nuffin Ayo() {
words DisNiggaSaid = SoYouBeSayin();
HolUp();
if(!DinduNuffin(DisNiggaSaid))
BixNood();
}
>>70524351
I was talking about Murricans, Spaniards and other Frenchmen.
DIKU, anyone?
>>70524308
I would still recommend starting with an engine for anyone wanting to get into game development because:
1. Knowledge of an engine itself is useful for intern/entry level positions at companies using that engine.
2. Most people give up very quickly when making games, especially when they don't make much visible progress. Engines let you skip a bunch of early unfulfilling work reinventing the wheel and instead you can experience solving a bunch of game development related problems.
Otherwise if you really want to try making your own "engine" I would recommend making first a terminal based text adventure followed by pong and snake using SDL or XNA. Or if you want to do it the hard way use DirectX or OpenGL directly.
Live in Cali and be at least decent at programming and you're set. If you can't get a job you probably fucking suck or are autistic.
>>70524488
Linux/Windows (depends on the course) nobody gives a fuck about MacOs in Poland outside of Indie game developers.
>>70523564
Fuck javascript its bullshit.
You should try C to learn basics about memory, C++ to learn objects and memory handling.
I'm raging every time someone says "lul I dont understand pointers my (insert bullshit language) does it for me"
>>70524535
Kek
>>70524539
Ah, well that's fine then.
>>70524553
>birthplace of DikuMUD
Dem credentials.
>>70524622
Is there anywhere not Cali like middle of the country or south?
>>70524624
You sir are my hero. I fucking love you Poland.
>>70524417
>INTJ
>Getting stuff done
Pick one
>>70520767
>printf or cout<< or print is too easy, let's say System.out.print
Do you even understand namespaces and objects?
>Also Main() is too simple too, what if it confuses people
Do you even understand entry points?
That's a top shitpost you got there. Multiple class inheritance is also disgusting as fuck.
>>70519085
What do you guys think about web developing? What category does it even fall under?
>>70524675
If anything I would say it recreational.
>>70524269
Oh ok thanks. I might give python a go then. Ultimately I want to learn C++ for game dev but the advice I got was to start with something easy to learn.
>>70524627
Cheers for the advice.
>>70524675
Depends if you're frontend or backend.
>>70524675
Easy way to get some extra cash.
>>70524627
Someone trying to teach themselves programming is going to be much better off learning a higher level language like JS. You have to be bright and highly motivated to learn C with no help. I honestly didn't truly understand C until I took a compiler class.
stop making such threads, my abs can't take the keks anymore
>>70520978
Java everything is an object so you have to make a scanner object. The scanner is not in lang library so you have to import :(
>>70524738
For some reasons Django fags are extra active in here. They are organizing courses, meeting etc. Are they doing it for free or someone is funding these initiatives? EU maybe?
>>70519085
I use C++ exclusively for Arduino. I also use C++ exclusively for work related projects (mechanical engineer) for iterative calculations.
Pic related on some of the lighting projects I'm doing right now.
>>70524762
I think the issue with JS is that it's a little to focused, that it's a bit particular. I would suggest Java or Python for a first language.
"Quotas is good fer de woimens XDD #inclusive"
Nah fuck off mate. Patronizing as fuck. If a women can prove she'll do as good of a job or better then sure, hire the cunt.
Just a reminder to everyone that the reason you're not programming in Haskell professionally is because you bought into pseudoscientific OOP bullshit. Unless you're domain is realtime, and you are therefore using c++, I can guarantee you are simply retarded and not intelligent enough to realize that Haskell is a better fit for you.
>>70524833
OP should buy Rapberry Pi and put it on a shelf to collect dust.
Programming is not getting cucked as you say
If you have mastered programming like I have and read many programming books on it and you have spent many hours into programming because you seriously like it you will become really good at it and have no problem finding work in it
>>70522360
yes but you will get paid for it
>>70524898
>falling for the functional jew
If you are a real engineer that know algorithms, design patterns, machine learning, hardware... I think you dont have to worry. It is so funny how much those wanabees have trouble with even the simplest algo concepts :)
It doesn't matter.
They can try, try, try, and all they will ever get is UX and QA.
>>70524898
Fuck you, C++ still prevails.
>>70524830
Could be NGO-faggotry. Could just be a fad.
I never found web stuff to be that interesting to be honest.
>>70524274
Thanks, do you work in the game industry/are you Japanese or a gaijin btw?
>>70524613
I didn't underestimate the usefulness of an engine for someone who wants to make his first game. Most people aren't Kojima-tier to the point of making their own engine ; using something like Unity or the Unreal Engine is pretty good for the reasons you listed.
A big chunk of people who want to get into the game industry do not have a technical or IT-savvy background and 98% of them don't want to waste their time learning how to code when they already want to learn how to make a game.
However Unity has its limits ; if you want to make a rogue-like you will have to make a dungeon-generating algorithm yourself, the engine won't help you there
>>70524992
If were talking about the job market, isn't C the biggest still?
>>70524660
Well there are places like NYC and Seattle obviously but that's pretty similar to California I'd argue. I know Colorado and Austin have good markets for programming. If you're actually good at programming you can find a job, it's just easier at places like the Bay Area/ Seattle, etc.
>>70524833
>arduino
So I take it building Ikea furniture with other peoples tools is also difficult for you?
>>70525041
I'm not talking about the job market.
>>70519085
THAT'S BECAUSE IT USED TO BE A WOMANS JOB OP.
>>70524898
If you're programming with LINQ you're basically fucking around with Haskell in the same way that using Java is fucking around with (((Lisp))). :^)
>>70524171
You're talking about that company that had a quasi monopoly ? Nice example.
>>70525053
Oh god, you're one of those faggots aren't you?
I'm prototyping a board to build a Nixie clock out of and I'm using the Arduino to prototype it. It turns out sometimes you don't always need to make your own board for a lot of electronics projects, sometimes Arduino on it's own does just fine.
>>70525041
I thought it was Java, could be wrong though. If you really want job security learn something like Cobol. Your life will probably suck though but you'll make bank at least
We have a daily programming thread over at /g/ under the subthread /dpt/ daily programming thread if you guys are interested in programming discussion
>>70524735
For game dev I'd recommend C# -> C -> C++ since C# is pretty good for beginners yet actually has some industry application. If you really want to learn python though go ahead. I did Java -> C -> JS -> C# -> C++ having entered the industry after C#.
>>70525011
I worked in the industry I but am currently taking a break from it for a while. I am American.
>>70525021
>However Unity has its limits
I know this only too well.
>>70524666
Thanks Satan. I always knew toothpaste was the devil.
>>70525095
People, and I use that term very loosely, who go on about the historically questionable merits of Ada Lovelace and Grace Hopper should be horsewhipped.
>>70524520
Personally I think his series is well thought out.
ITT fucking nerdlingers.
t. chad
>>70522575
>Anyone can learn how to code
Bullshit. Women for example.
And a lot of men can't learn to code, either. I'm studying CS and there's surprisingly many people who drop out because they can't code for shit, people who excel at the maths stuff but can't into code.
What PC is good to make games in unity?
>>70525218
but she is credited with first using the term 'bug'. Such a feat easily makes her comparable to Turing and Von Neumann.
>>70524966
> not realizing that everything is far easier to reason about in a functional paradigm.
> still thinking that also your meme "design patterns" are somehow a legitimate concept
>>70524992
C++ is great for what it is. If you're working on Unreal Engine or Lumberyard, that's great. If you're working in a business domain however, you are fucking retarded and whoever code c++ should be sterilized.
>>70525189
I looked it up on google and it said Java, but wikipedia said C. Though Java is pretty close to top still
>>70519085
So I'm a Hispanic, Peruvian motherfucker with lama wool socks (srs).
>Waaah Latinos do badly at school cuz muh racism
Taught myself how to code. Srsly there are endless free training resources available to people on the internet.
Now pay for other peoples to care for my garden (Jkin, I live in Canada).
Now I could go to South America and be a god to them, if it weren't for Argentina and the White areas of Brazil providing tech labor.
Minorities and women aren't going to change our salaries. You can either do the work, or you can't. You are either dedicated, focus, and constantly sharpening your skills or your a tech labor faggot that has to have their scripts constantly edited and re-written by someone competent. You are either good with abstract problems, creative, and can compute or you can't
The only threat is in large faggot-run companies where they have the capital to hire a diversity quota and keep the retards employed while we babysit them. But then your probably landing a managers gig before long.
>>70520384
>women being able to write code in Java
I'm a first year CS student and all women, except for Asian ones, failed the basic Java course.
>>70524898
Assuming that 1) writing software is about solving's actual problems for actual people, find me a single Haskell program being widely used by people to solve any issue they have (3D design, accounting, or whatever)
Plot twist: solving CS problems is excluded from that definition, so don't mention the GHC.
>>70521515
>Evaluating your whole life
>>70525363
What's that gif from
>>70525307
No way, if it can be expressed in algebra, I could program it.
I'm doing pretty well and it's easy to find a development job if you're halfway decent. There is just a lot more support for women and I've noticed trendy companies like google snatch up all the women they can find for the sake of diversity.
>>70519361
Fuck these fags. Actual programmer here. Go to the best college you can and try to excel. Sadly the competition is rough. Prove that you can compete and you'll be fine.
>>70525390
Did they pass other courses, are were all the women just trash?
>>70525218
But LOOPS bro! First real programmer was a woman!!
>>70525447
diversity is a good thing tho
>>70525307
Functional programming is the Bernie sanders of the industry.
It's great and so on and so forth, but it doesn't work in practice.
Functional faggots are bragging about solving particular issues (e.g. concurrency), forgetting that while doing so they broke 12 other things that programmers also care about.
That's not so much of an achievement, is it?
If Haskell is so good show we a world-class web browsers written in Haskell. If it's the language of the programming semi-gods, surely you guys can figure out all that stuff and come up with a nice browser quickly?
>>70525447
True. I knew several girls who got internships at Go Pro, Amazon, Apple. They weren't bad by any means but they weren't special either. I also remember Microsoft workers talking about a specific internship for minorities and that Asians/Whites shouldn't apply
>>70525317
Java is a shitty language pushed in the late 90s by large corporations. I'm glad it's slowly being replaced.
>>70525300
Did you just ask what computer is good to make games? Nigga, build your own computer.
>>70525487
They did pass Intro to CS, but most failed the math exams.
>>70525506
This is bai5
>>70525506
kek that salad and hipster drink
>>70525432
Because we're not on /a/ : Ryuugajou Nanana no Maizoukin
>>70525300
Depends what kind of games you want to make/your target spec. The editor adds a bunch of overhead especially with regards to error logging and garbage generation so you will get worse performance when running the game in it. Additionally you may want to have the scene view open which requires the game to render twice and depending on camera angles may screw up occlusion culling or make you render a lot more than usual. Other times you may want just the game view but a profiler attached.
In short its best to have a computer at least as powerful as your maximum target spec.
>>70525561
90% of the code is wasted on 1% of work being done.
I believe that if you're sorting something, you should only be allowed 5 lines of codes, like all the other functions.
>>70525188
>you're one of those faggots aren't you.
I am.
You would be too if you tried. You'll learn more in the long run if you step out of the arduino sandbox. Plus there's the added benefit of picking up extra experience in other disciplines in the EE field.
>>70525437
Duh. However, if you choose to program it in a non functional language, you are getting negative returns on investment. Seriously. Learn Haskell and then try and go back to business programming in cpp. You'll kill yourself.
>>70525506
Holy shit
>>70525785
It's actually my language of choice. However I can't undo what is already done.
>>70524898
Go program a game engine or an operating system in Haskell. C++ and Haskell are great for the different roles they do.
>>70519247
Your generation missed being able to claim "last generation of programmers" by 15 years bruv.
Mine grew up writing assembly.
>>70525748
All right, show me some great piece of software written in 2,000 lines of Haskell then.
The greatest programmers of this industry are defined by the work they did, not the language they used. Most used C, assembly, Pascal... Arguably, primitive tools.
What are some good books to get into C++?
>I have no programming experience.
>>70521561
That's more a problem with the entire industry though senpai. Either the person is talented and hardworking, and can CODE, or their a faggot who can only fumble about with Duplo blocks (made by actual programmers) to clumsily construct mass-produced template software.
The problem is everywhere. There's been a real need for people to fill the mid-card for decades.
Thing is if you're smart and hardworking enough to really understand coding early on, you're almost certainly going to push forward. Acquire better skills and become very valuable. You are either an intelligent, creative, obsessive, autist, who can balance multiple abstract concepts simultaneously or you aren't. It's a field that requires a natural born talent, but also weeds out lesser autists who are impatient or not good enough early on.
>>70525926
Assembly isn't that hard though, just tedious.
I actually prefer it though, it's very soothing.with all those short statements
>>70525511
I doubt you'll be thinking that when you find companies churning out buggy software at an increasingly slower rate because half the developers are incompetent slackers that got their job for a reason that has nothing to do with programming ability.
>>70525926
something about real programmers and butterflies.
>>70525943
It was a joke senpai.
>>70525506
I don't get it, I mean I get it, but it looks like there's another window open with actual code.
>>70525999
http://mazonka.com/shared/Straustrup4th.pdf
From the very creator of C++ himself, Bjarne Stroustrup.
>>70526016
I like it too but barely anybody learns it and nobody teaches it these days.
Nothing like bringing up your own Forth on bare metal in assembly. But fuck modern Intel with an iron stick though.
>>70525926
Nice try but you posted FORTH code.
>>70526130
>not using your forth environment to write your assembly
Wew lad.
God tier programming languages:
c/c++
haskell
erlang
ocaml
go
haxe
"Don't tell your friends" tier:
Javascript
Java
"Why does it still exist" tier:
Python <-- over hyped and for retards
>>70520687
Made me gnuffaw.
>>70526129
Can't speak for anyone else but my University had at least 3 required classes that involved Assembly.
>>70526178
Is this colorforth?
Chuck Moore actually creates his own software to create his own CPU to create his own software.
Pretty badass.
>>70525763
Like I said, depends on the project. For my indoor lighting and my depth gauge Arduino does the job just fine. For my Nixie clock I'm going to need to make my own board. Why do extra work when it's not needed?
>>70526127
>made by the creator of C++
That's really cool senpai, thanks for the link.
>>70526214
Python wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the damn whtiespace thing.
>>70526272
It's Arrayforth which is the new Colorforth.
The second shot I posted is the dev environment for the GA144 chip.
>>70525400
Literally anything that isn't realtime (such as 3D shit) is a great choice for Haskell. I don't know shit about accounting, but I can guarantee that if a good team wrote accounting software in Haskell, it would shit on whatever the gold standard software is now. Seriously, look into it. Once you see how much time you've wasted on your design pattern memes you'll hate yourself for not switching sooner.
>>70525561
Nope. Haskell actually works in practice, unlike sanders. Also, learn from different sources about Haskell. Concurrency is good in Haskell, but that's not the reason to use it or any other functional language. GADTs are. Seriously, look into it.
>>70526377
To each their own but I really wouldn't suggest learning C++ as your first language unless you're very motivated.
>>70520194
>implying anyone 'mastered' C++
>implying C++ isn't magic
C++ is a tool capable of achieving anything, people only 'master' a subset of C++ if anything. Also, templates are for faggots.
>>70525999
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/388242/the-definitive-c-book-guide-and-list
>>70526396
Use tab instead of space, always. There. Your problem is solved.
>>70522241
as a c# and unity3d dev this made me laugh. Thank you for posting.
>>70526396
Have you looked at the OOP part ? It's a fucking disaster.
Have you looked at the performance ?
It's crap
Have you looked at the break between 2.x and 3.x ?
The module system ?
Kill me now
Jesus Christ save us.
>>70526268
Either you're somewhat old or you went through an unusually good program.
Most kids these days come out of school never having touched an assembler and only barely knowing what a stack is.
>>70526463
I don't think I'm that motivated. Assuming I want to get into C++, which language should I start with?
>>70526275
>why do extra work if it's not needed.
Hobbies aren't needed by that same logic, neither are any of the projects you listed.
If you're comfortable with using other people's libraries and platforms, that's fine. It's just not something I'd be proud of personally.
>>70526416
Sweet. It's probably like using alien technology.
>>70526560
How does it feel to be an incomplete developer ?
Unity is for lazy faggots that don't want to get their hands dirty.
>>70526565
I would have, but the second I'm reminded that it has the whitespace thing I rage uncontrollably, good to know I'm not missing much.
>>70525121
>Bethesda / Valve / EA Games
Reading this chapter by chapter.
Was using Cygwin but downloaded Visual Studio and am playing with it too. The dark theme is great and VS has a vim extension so it's nice.
It's kind of cool to get a little feeling of accomplishment when you get your little babby programs to work or debugged for the first time. I got bored with vidya.
>>70526423
I know Scheme, which is also a nice language for programming purists.
Show me something useful written in Haskell. The only thing I hear is Haskell programmers in love with the language, but somehow they don't write anything beyond blogs and half-working ports of some old libraries.
>>70526565
Haskell is a meme language for hipsters and mathematicians.
Slowpid development language of choice.
>>70526762
So what kind of "Dev" are you ?
Part 2 when?
>>70525943
Oh my god. Look up commercial Haskell on github for resources on using Haskell in a commercial setting. Here's the thing, Haskell has two users. Academic meme tier open source projects of varying quality, that as you said, don't solve real problems. And commercial products, which are closed source.
If you want to see some quality Haskell code, look at the compiler for typescript, that probably doesn't qualify as "useful" code to you, but it's probably the best you'll find that's open source. To see good Haskell in a commercial environment, you'll actually need to have some existing skills.
>>70526811
Dubs checked. You speak the truth.
>>70526679
Yeah, you're just a hipster. By your logic why not write your own assembly language then? Why are you taking short cuts by using languages written by other people? Come on, make your own assembly.
>>70526936
yeah we should have a /pol/grammer general
be able to talk about shit without /g/ cuck mods shutting down the fun
>>70526683
I grew up on Forth in the 80s so for me it is refreshingly familiar. Also an Hp calculator fan so that helps too.
I bet most people would hate it though.
Take your pick.
>>70527069
D-don't call it a general m8
That's how you kill generals
>>70526004
hypnotic gif, saved
>>70527063
You can't develop your own assembly language dipshit. Unless you develop your own CPU architecture. You don't belong here.
>>70526620
Considering you'd be teaching yourself it's more important to pick a language that is easier. Sure learning C/C++ might be better but the likelihood of you actually learning that by yourself is small.
I would suggest python. It's easier to understand the basics and there are plenty of resources. If you stick with it eventually you can learn the more detailed/behind the hood stuff. Programmers on the internet tend to have a dick measuring contest by claiming lower level languages are better.
>>70526971
I don't need to see the source code.
Can you maybe just name a product written in Haskell?
You can't: as someone said above, Haskell is a meme language.
>>70527069
Just make it about technology and engineering, instead of just programming.
>>70527091
Anime is cancer, but C has the best lady. Good one.
>>70524898
> unless your domain is realtime, and you are therefore using c++
Did you even read my comment?
>>70526872
Frontend, why does it matter?
My AI lecturer says LISP is the best language.
How right is he /pol/?
>>70527233
>I like C but hate anime
>I'll post about it on the political section of an anime website
how hipster can you get?
>>70527091
Half of those are meme languages that won't exist in 15 years.
>>70527179
Why are you so mad? Make your own hardware. Unless you're some filthy casual who likes having others do the work for them.
>>70527063
Nice ad-hominem there.
>write your own assembly language
You wot?
My suggestion was merely one of personal enrichment. Of course you control your own level of involvement, I can see by your comments you're probably not up to the challenge anyways.
>>70527319
He's a "AI lecturer", obviously he made a mistake.
>>70527305
So... you a cuck ?
>>70525640
Erythritol isn't hipster, it's the fucking Aryan of sugars.
>>70527319
I don't think their is a language created specifically for artificial intelligence, but I am no master of lisp.
>>70527456
No just a loser still in school doing part time work for little money, er I guess that means yes.
>>70527521
What is Prolog
>>70527532
Sorry. Read your post too quickly.
>>70526785
>EA
>Bethesda
>Good reputation
>Valve
If you're talking about the platform, they're in a monopoly.
If you're not then,
>Good reputation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjCp8Nkdtq4
A nigger speaking about chinks on WoW. I thought all the memes about ebonics was a joke, but it's genuinely not.
>>70522436
Results. You are in University but haven't worked on anything professionally or havent shipped a finished project?
Shit tier developer.
Without self reliance and determination you won't be useful to me. I need people that I can't stop from getting things done, not people that I have to prod every other day.
>>70527573
You win this time Germany :)
>>70527546
So... can i fuck your girlfriend ?
>>70527335
Not everyone on /pol/ is a weaabo, you ugly fucking basement nerd.
>>70527385
Your suggestion wasn't a suggestion. You just said "oh, you don't make your own X from scratch? Why even do it?" which is the most hipster argument I have ever heard of.
That would be like me saying "yeah I like baking apple pies" and you responding "well did you grow the apples yourself and harvest the wheat to make the crust? Wow, you're not REALLY baking apple pie then." Stop being a hipster, nobody thinks it's cool, you just wind up looking like a douche.
>>70527305
It's sort of like saying, "yeah I work on cars. I'm a mechanic"
"Oh cool. So like engines and transmissions?"
"Nope. The body. I make sure the body is clean, the rims are shiny, etc"
"So you work at a car wash?"
"Yeah, exactly!"
>>70527753
get off our anime website and go back to whatever hole you crawled out of hipster faggot.
>>70527319
(((LISP))) is the Haskell of the 80s.
It's primarily found in Academia or when piling on more redundant shit to Emacs.
>>70527834
No, it's like saying, "I know how to make an engine, but because I have no experience, I'm washing cars"
>>70527850
Watching/liking anime as a male is as effeminate as it gets. How does it feel to be a manchild?
>>70527091
>php being clumsy as fuck
truth
>>70527546
Never call yourself a loser. Listen to Trump. One of my former best developers started that way, kept in Front-end and just got poached for a little below 200k. Don't believe the greasy nerds here, being able to do outstanding Front-end is very valuable.
>>70527779
My entire line of responses was meant to nudge you into greater involvement in your hobby.
You are the one who said why bother when I can do the bare minimum.
It's clearly evident based on your entire comment chain that you have no idea what's really going on at the hardware level, it's just a magic black box to you. That's fine, just don't come here bragging about it with your LED helloworld.c
>>70527638
>too young to remember getting fucked by all three companies
You've just proven my point, anon, not refuted it.
>>70527229
Here you go. A small list of companies using Haskell commercially.
https://github.com/commercialhaskell/commercialhaskell/blob/master/README.md
>>70527937
you think like that yet you post on an anime website.
This is called "psychological projection".
>>70527229
There is no commercial Haskell, that's a meme.
>>70523405
Have you made the transition yourself?
>>70523424
You're right, although I'm trying to get some "insiders knowledge" since that's what I like about /pol/
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