Job Guarantee scheme
>Pay minimum wage to anyone willing to work
>As many hours as they want
>Real work - e.g. environmental restoration, infrastructure projects, or whatever the local community needs
>Administered by local government but funded federally
This would:
>End long-term unemployment, and make workers more employable
>End most of the poverty we needlessly tolerate in society
>Have an excellent automatic stabilising mechanism against inflation (wage price anchor)
>See yuge real output gains by closing the Okun gap (wasted labour as a result of unemployment)
Just to name some of the benefits.
Do you agree or disagree with this idea and why?
>>70513298
>implying everyone is willing to work
mo money fo them programs
What makes sure JG workers actually work?
>>70513298
thanks doc
>>70513298
Agree totaly with this idea. Only problem is that nignogs will be too lazy and complain that they can't feed their kids no more because mah benifits are gone.
>>70513376
Then they don't work in the program and they continue to be poor. At least they chose that path.
>>70513409
They don't get paid if they don't work, and yes, they can get fired.
>>70513531
But then you would have to have supervisors?
>>70513298
Boondoggle jobs bruh
A lot of people plain and simple don't want to work
There is plenty of people willing to work in this country but have jobs stolen by 457 visa workers
>>70513298
it is a valid scheme, to actually make it kind of useful a lot of unemployed people should be cleaning the streets
>>70513298
> environmental restoration, infrastructure projects
Be more specific. Because both of these sound like real jobs, that require a lot of specialized know-how.
>>70513298
job guarantee sounds great
people can build the gulags they're going to get jailed in
I have doubts that the federal government can spend that much money. I'm in the us military and I have two dogs. When the military makes you move, you're on the hook for your own pet fees, and that's totally fine. But when they assigned me overseas, they bought my airline ticket on an airline that didn't allow pets at all. I asked them to fix that but they refused since an airline that allowed pets would cost them another $200, even though it would save ME thousands. That's how cheap the federal government is. I can't see them paying every unemployed person minimum wage for a long period of time.
>>70513298
Thanks doc
>>70514224
my picture got eaten
>>70513575
Yes, there needs to be an administrative bureaucracy to manage the program. This can't be any worse than existing structures that manage the unemployed.
>>70513593
>A lot of people plain and simple don't want to work
>There is plenty of people willing to work in this country but have jobs stolen by 457 visa workers
Well this would give them the choice to work or stay poor.
>>70513800
No, it would be low-skill jobs. For example cleaning the waterways.
The point of being administered by local government is that local government knows better than any higher level what the community needs most. So the kind of work would probably vary between different areas but the administrative structure, wage, etc. is basically the same.
Think of the New Deal.
So what's the difference between this and burying freshly printed money and make the unemployed dig for it? Other than the debatable utility (if these jobs are so useful and required by society, why do they need taxes)
Also, incentives. Are you telling me that once the pandora box of guaranteed jobs is offered, the budget for it will diminish accordingly to the diminished necessity (according to you)? It's like you're forgetting we're talking about the government here. Every single program expands into bureaucracy leviathans, no exception.
Lastly, can you explain exactly how providing more money to people who are basically on a consuming 100% of what they make-schedule, will fight inflation? Same offer and higher demand lowers prices now?
>>70513298
solution to unemployment
less tax and less regulation on business
any economist knows this
>>70513298
Yeah, like NEETs are going to get off their computer chairs and voluntarily participate in any kind of actual work.
>>70513298
>Solution to Unemployment
>remove every form of government aid
>lower taxes
>let people work or die
We are overpopulated anyways, we need more than a few deaths.
>>70514259
The federal government can afford this. It can afford anything. The only real barrier would be convincing the politicians.
However much money this program costs (in terms of JG wages) is the right amount. It satisfies the desire for work and only pays minimum wage, so it can't be inflationary.
I agree that most congressmen or parliamentarians would have difficulty accepting the idea but in my view the economics checks out.
>>70514633
>Implying I wouldn't jump at the opportunity to pick up trash around my community for minimum wage
>Wouldn't even have to talk to anybody, just getting fresh air and blood circulating in my ass
>>70513298
I don't want the majority of niggers doing public works, do you want abbos doing public works? I guess some simple shit would be fine, but certainly nothing that is important.
>>70514549
>So what's the difference between this and burying freshly printed money and make the unemployed dig for it? Other than the debatable utility
I feel this is either a loaded question or a silly one. "What's the difference between a job and a useless job, aside from being useful?"
>Also, incentives. Are you telling me that once the pandora box of guaranteed jobs is offered, the budget for it will diminish accordingly to the diminished necessity (according to you)?
Cost of wages in the JG scheme will only increase when there is more work done in the scheme. As for administrative overhead, that would still have to be less than the unproductive bureaucracy of jobseeker agencies (or whatever the equivalent is in your country).
>Lastly, can you explain exactly how providing more money to people who are basically on a consuming 100% of what they make-schedule, will fight inflation?
If giving every worker a decent income would cause inflation due to insufficient productive capacity then that would be a different, distributional problem. But we don't have any major food or any other resource shortage so there's no reason we can't give everyone in our society the opportunity at a decent life.
Desu just build a bunch of factories and make the NEETs work there for half of minimum wage until they get their ass a job.
>>70514552
I agree, but a JG deals with the workers left behind when there are no jobs left (whether the government tried using fiscal policy to pursue full employment or not).
>>70515712
>just build a bunch of factories and make the NEETs work there
Well factories isn't usually the kind of work outlined in JG proposals but I guess it's not impossible.
>for half of minimum wage
Whatever wage the JG scheme pays, is the real minimum wage. Currently the real minimum wage is zero because we have no employment guarantee. With a JG you can actually remove the currently existing form of minimum wage (and I would do this).
I think it's a great idea. You effectively scrap unemployment welfare and allows local admin to focus on projects that may never have been possible otherwise.
A major issue is logistics. A lot of the unemployed on small villages have jobs available in local towns and cities but don't have the money to move, and travel is impractical. These guaranteed jobs would most likely be out of range for these folks too.
>>70513298
The problem with chronic unemployment is the same as the problem with chronic homelessness: Chronically unemployed people don't want to work. People who want to work can generally find jobs.
This might be okay as an emergency measure in a job market crisis, or perhaps in some particularly piss poor areas where there's no work to be found, but when things are going along fine, it just sounds like a good way to devalue lower paying but not bottom-of-the-barrel jobs (i.e. those that pay $10-$15/hr)
>>70513298
Sounds like America Works by Frank Underwood from the show House of Cards
>>70514552
>EXAMPLES OF EVENTS THAT DON'T FIT IN WITH MY NARRATIVE ARE HISTORIC REVISIONISM (the button that I press when I want to believe that I've won the argument without needing to provide proof)! MUH FREE MARKET!
Kill yourself.
>>70516577
>Chronically unemployed people don't want to work.
Well we can offer every person a job and find out just how true that is. I believe there are many workers who are not counted among the workforce because they've been unemployed for so long that they gave up looking, but would take a job in an instant if offered.
>it just sounds like a good way to devalue lower paying but not bottom-of-the-barrel jobs (i.e. those that pay $10-$15/hr)
How? Every worker would have the option of a minimum wage job (but a job nonetheless) at any time. This would empower all workers but yes, particularly those at the lower end of wages.
>>70516581
More comprehensive than AmWorks in that workers can work as many hours as they want in the scheme, but yes it's that kind of idea.
Unlike AmWorks I wouldn't necessarily advocate for removing other forms of welfare. In House of Cards it's designed with the caveat that welfare must be cut to "fund" it but that is not actually necessary.
My approach would be implement the job guarantee on top of everything that currently exists and see what happens.
>>70517009
An interesting added bonus would be to allow already employed people to take up a second job, or supplement a part time job with extra hours?
>>70517130
Yes exactly, the system allows this. It deals not only with unemployment but also with underemployment. I should have included that in the OP.
I have always said this. People here get 180 euro a week social welfare , more if they have a wife/ kids etc. I always said get the fuckers working twenty hour weeks for their welfare , put them under control of the local councils and have them clean/paint/ sweep the streets or whatever they are qualified for.
Four years ago I lost my job and had to go on the social, went down to the office after two weeks of no job and asked to go on a community employment scheme ( they have them but not many )
The woman behind the counter looked at me like I had three heads . She even called over another woman and asked me what my inquiry was . They were shocked.
Got on a scheme maintaning a site belongjng to the council at 200 euro for 19.5 hours work , and got part time work elsewhere after two weeks so was earning ok money.
It was funny because after a week they made me a supervisor , my main job was to keep the other dickheads working or at least pretending that they are working. All of them the same story , on the social for years and 'the bastards said they would cut me off if I didn't do a scheme for twelve months' counts would always go out sick or pretend to have back problems.
Fucking scumbags, all social assistance should be worked for
>>70516724
what?
fucking sperg lmao
>>70517009
>How? Every worker would have the option of a minimum wage job (but a job nonetheless) at any time. This would empower all workers but yes, particularly those at the lower end of wages.
A lot of the kinds of jobs that you describe would be jobs that would normally pay in the $10-$15/hr range (construction work, jobs related to public cleanliness, etc.). Your plan would drop the market prices in those fields.
Here's an alternative for your plan: More public projects WITHOUT dropping the market price of related industries. Lower paid workers move up, demand in unskilled job market rises, economy booms, everybody benefits except for a few rich fucks who have to pay their workers more. This gave the American economy a shot in the arm at the end of the Great Depression, and our infrastructure is falling apart, anyways.
>>70517237
This is very different to workfare. In my opinion far better.
Workfare:
>You get a dismal dole payment and you have to do some amount of work as a condition, typically working out to below minimum wage. You're socially stigmatised and made to feel worthless if you can't get into a "real" job.
Job Guarantee:
>You get a real job, and you get paid a real wage for it. You can transition in and out of it unconditionally according to your employment circumstances/desires.
>>70517259
This is where it would go if I started arguing with you.
People who make statements like that never like hearing about how history proves them wrong, and their way out is to try to claim that any cases of regulation and taxation putting a leash on human greed to the benefit of everybody is historic revisionism. They disregard inconvenient history and believe that human nature will magically change in their libertarian wonderland.
>>70517631
Just thought I'd say how it goes here
There is also a scheme called jobsbridge which is ridiculous, jobsbridge allows employers to hire people as interns and the social pays them 250 a week for a full forty hour week, the type of jobsbridge being offered are vets,teachers , physiotherapists to receptionists , acountants and everything in between.
All it did for the economy was stop employers hiring, because people on the social with degrees would be forced into jobs where they earn a little over half of someone flipping burgers
What is a Job Guarantee?
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=23719
Bill Mitchell
Modern Monetary Theory
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?page_id=2
>CURRENT YEAR
>that far left in the green quadrant
>on /pol/
>>70518092
I do read his blog from time to time. He's an unashamedly left-wing economist.
I agree that most of his views wouldn't go over well here, but you should attack the plan not the man.
>>70517872
Confirming this. Often an employer will keep someone for 6 months to a year, then say that they have no open positions available and let that person go from their internship. They will then take another intern on for the same period and repeat.
Employer wins because they get free labour, government wins because those interns count as being "employed" and help fudge the unemployment rates, the people actually doing these shit jobs for fuck-all pay and no advancement lose.
![Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-P022078,_Reichsarbeitsdienst,_Straßenbau[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ePPmQzD.jpg "Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-P022078,_Reichsarbeitsdienst,_Straßenbau[1].jpg")
Hitler actually did something like this.
The RAD (Reichsarbeitsdienst) was started for projects like land reclamation, road construction, coastal works etc. Only later was it shifted towards military purposes.
The work was valued and paid, but not in competition with regular jobs since they relied a lot more an manual labor than machines. My grandfather build a dike at the North Sea in what later was known as the Adolf-Hitler-Koog and afterwards dried swamps - all without any machines.
>>70514633
surely the advantage of this scheme is that we no longer have to provide benefits, if literally everyone who wants to work can?
We can cut off the hand that feeds the NEET, they will starve or work
Good luck getting sued by unions.
>>70518328
Has he wrote a comprehensive Job Guarantee book, synthesizing all of his blog posts, revising and updating them, with additional content?
>>70518488
once again Hitler did nothing wrong
>>70513298
>I watched House of Cards
The post.
>>70518488
Yeah, I understand Hitler's Germany made very effective use of public works projects in the 30s by dropping the gold standard and aiming for full employment (but I don't know much in detail about it).
>>70518673
I don't know if his books include a lot of content on the job guarantee idea. Some of them probably do. But I checked his website just now and found this: http://www.billmitchell.org/Job_Guarantee.php
There doesn't appear to be a book solely dedicated to it.
>>70519749
>http://www.billmitchell.org/Job_Guarantee.php
Thanks.
>>70518770
I was actually interested in the JG concept before watching House of Cards. I was pretty surprised to see such a similar idea in mainstream media.
Anyway, I mentioned it here: >>70517009
>>70513298
you would need managers to make sure cunts aren't slacking
What will the government do when a job ceases to be productive? Most conservative and libertarians would accuse this plan of creating jobs that would be no better than digging a hole and filling it back again.
>>70513298
Been saying this for years.
Stick a GoPro camera on every Muslims forehead in a Western country, hire all the white NEETs to monitor the GoPro feeds, report anything the Muzzies do that looks suspicious.
Solve two problems at once.
It's "work for the dole" wrapped in better marketing
Every single form of work for the dole has failed miserably
This will be no exception
All it will result in will be backdoor deals that get JG people working minimum wage for companies that would otherwise be paying double it
>>70518640
>implying we won't kill off union leaders who won't play ball
>also deport all non whites
>>70520818
Local governments have no shortage of work that could be getting done but currently isn't for lack of funds.
>>70520936
>It's "work for the dole" wrapped in better marketing
No, it's not. See >>70517631
>All it will result in will be backdoor deals that get JG people working minimum wage for companies that would otherwise be paying double it
JG is supposed to be administered within the public sector for this very reason.
Is there model legislation for the Job Guarantee plan?
>>70520914
I want the first one on the left.
Claiming her as mine now.
>>70513298
Isnt this tantamount to a commie government planned economy?
>>70521807
I don't think so. Maybe someone in America drafted such a bill.
>>70521928
No, a job guarantee buys off the bottom. The private sector will always be able to outbid the JG scheme for labour as long as it offers a wage above the minimum.
>>70513298
it'd be nice if they could find jobs that disabled people could do too. Problem with being disabled is.. even if you want to work, nobody wants to hire you, because you're competing with able bodied applicants.
But when you're disabled even if you're getting SSDI, you just get so fucking bored., There's only so many video games, movies, books, and shitposting you can fill your days with.
I'd gladly work but .. I'd have to do it from home since can't walk and can't drive.
But in the private sector.. jobs that you can do from home.. they want 2-3 years of on site experience before they'll trust you to do it from home.
Anything that shits on those "employment services providers" is good by me. Fuck those money grubbing cunts. They cost more than just paying people the dole does.
>>70516577
Desire to work is only half the equation. Convincing an employer to want to hire you is the other half and that's much more complicated because there's always competition.
When there's limitations as to the kinds of jobs you CAN do, like physical limitations or education/skillset limitations.. you might end up not being able to find work that you are qualified for that an employer will hire you for, because of competition.
>>70517009
The other truth to this is, the longer you spend unsuccessfully looking for work, the harder it is to land a job. Being currently unemployed is a HUGE detractor. Employers would rather deal with 2 week notices and such from someone currently working, than hire someone who's unemployed and willing to start work that day.
>>70523246
Shit, the sheer number of people looking for work makes it hard. Last I saw, job seekers outnumbered available jobs by over 600,000 here in ausfailia.
so how hard are these jobs? If I can get a minimum wage job guaranteed to me by the government, why would I ever apply to work as a shelf-stocker at Walmart? Why would anybody?
>>70523459
There will be like, a wal*mart or starbucks hiring, minimum wage, but college graduates with multiple years of work experience will clamor for that job, hundreds of people over one shitty job opening. This was during the height of the recession but I don't think it's improved that much.
>>70523746
such a program would drive up wages for jobs like that, they'd have to offer higher wages, or more benefits or those jobs just wouldn't be done.
>>70523746
>If I can get a minimum wage job guaranteed to me by the government, why would I ever apply to work as a shelf-stocker at Walmart? Why would anybody?
Most people would prefer a higher paying job outside of the JG scheme, if they can get it. Maybe you would prefer low wage local community work and that's fine too.
>>70513298
I've been thinking along these lines myself. It would potentially make everything better. The problem would be finding enough work so that lazy people aren't just dicking around to eat up the clock.
>>70513298
No money for dem programmes, not borrowing it.
Sell tea towels, people will always need towels.
How would you explain and convince to a conservative or a libertarian that a Job Guarantee program is not socialism and is capitalism with capitalism?
>>70524685
Also some idiots would purposely sprain an ankle or something trying to get a payday. Not to mention the amount of retards that could probably injure themselves with even those trash grabber things.
>>70524789
>is capitalism with capitalism?
compatible with capitalism
>>70524789
Mainstream conservatives would be easy - just tell them the unemployed are already in the public sector (on the dole) doing nothing. This would instead put them to work.
Libertarians might be more difficult because they might believe that any government job is unproductive by definition. I don't know what would be the best way to convince them. Maybe just point out that unemployment is utterly devastating to society and at least a guaranteed job would give people the opportunity to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
>>70513298
>>Real work - e.g. environmental restoration, infrastructure projects, or whatever the local community needs
>>Administered by local government but funded federally
Public works projects are all well and good, and lord knows we need to improve our infrastructure here in the US, but a JG program shouldn't focus entirely on projects such as that. There should be at least a small percentage of for-profit operations that receive initial funding through taxes, much like any other JG system would, that then relies instead upon their own means of funding with a minimal safety net allowing for competition with the existing markets.
Fuck, let's start making high quality American products again, stuff designed to last forever instead of the planned obsolescence within five years.
So basically, JG is like working with a temp agency.
>all infrastructure built and maintained by welfare retards
Yeah, great idea.
leave poeple take their own deals and nobody will lack opportunities to choose from even if they're retarded and lack arms and legs
Better than handing out the bennies for free.
There's always something useful people can do for their community. And who knows, maybe that experience will lead to an actual job.
How many jobs could the unemployed do before you start stepping on the private sectors toes?
Not all unemployed people get Gibs. Some just live with family. If you end up paying millions of people to do something you are going to need to get some sort of return and that usually means doing something the private sector does.
>>70528484
>How many jobs could the unemployed do before you start stepping on the private sectors toes?
Good question.
We already have a gubbamint gibs workforce - over 50% of the population is sucking bennies
So the plan is make the gubbamint pile higher...
Of course "local needs" will be "federally funded", so we take very local shithole, send all their money to Wahington DC, and watch the magic happy train of full employment emerge from the efficient, no waste, fraud, nor abuse DC masters...
MY GOD MAN YOU ARE TRULY INSANE.
