Anyone else here pretty confused politically these days?
I dunno.
I've always sort of identified as alt-right in some vague sense. I know I hate the SJWs more than I hate the right, and while I don't hate the moderate left, I don't have particularly fond feelings of it. Certain elements on the alt-right spectrum and 'liberal leftists' like Sargon of Akkad I admire, but frankly, the more I learn about the really far right (like the Daily Stormer, RightStuff.biz) crowd the more I can't trust them.
So here's the background.
There's been quite a bit of far-right stuff in the news lately, for example, Milo's "the alt-right for mainstream conservatives" article, and Weev's printer hack.
In following these stories it's become increasingly clear to me that the ideological Zeitgeist of the alt-right is more or less neo-nazi, or at least neo-fascist. After looking into Weev more, it's quite clear that he fantasizes about killing the blacks and Jews; and Anglin thinks that everybody on the alt-right who isn't a Nazi is a 'cuck.'
It occurred to me that this 'cuck' meme is really a psychological trick used to make people feel that anything that isn't hardcore Nazism is a symptom of weakness and submission.
[CONT'D]
The effect of this on me, mentally, is really peculiar. It's like... I've been hating on the left for 5 years now, and I've come to trust the 'new right' as a bastion of free discourse where people can freely exchange ideas, but now it's starting to look like the Nazi element in the alt-right is trying to co-opt the whole anti-SJW movement into a new form of authoritarianism where you're a cuck beta if you oppose full white supremacy.
IDK, this is really confusing.
I liked the old anti-SJW movement, but now that the alt-right is becoming more and more nationalist I'm starting to have reservations about it. Intellectually, I can't say I have a lot of respect for nationalism or racism; aren't these ideas pretty much based on drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and exaggerating minor differences either don't matter or won't matter for long?
Do the opposite of what fat hambeasts do. I used to think /pol/ was full of shit, but every hardcore liberal I meet has dyed hair and a fat gunt.
Agree with them on some things and disagree with them on others.
>hey /pol/ pls allow me to disagree
Jesus Christ you ARE a cuck. No wonder you're a lefty beta afraid of ebil nazis
>>70433552
>aren't these ideas pretty much based on drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and exaggerating minor differences either don't matter or won't matter for long?
Not really m8 I can't speak for leaf land but the less white the U.S becomes the more shitty it's going to get.
You are just a normal person
>>70433552
The idea that nationalism "won't matter for long" is absurd. Ethnic tribalism is the natural state of mankind, and is still practiced by everyone except white westerners. It's NOT recognizing your own national interests that is an aberration that won't last long.
>It occurred to me that this 'cuck' meme is really a psychological trick used to make people feel that anything that isn't hardcore Nazism is a symptom of weakness and submission.
Well, OP, I can't say I don't support this. In fact I encourage it. We don't live in a time where we can afford half-measures or some sense of disunity, so I'd rather we cull our troops to a single spot.
>anything that isn't hardcore Nazism is a symptom of weakness and submission.
but that's true
>>70433552
>aren't these ideas pretty much based on drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and exaggerating minor differences either don't matter or won't matter for long?
Nationality is built upon the concept that race is inegrally tied to culture, which ir pretty clearly is.
I see your concern, though. There are some interesting things going on with the alt-right as the true believers get behind and ratify their positions, and the power structures attempt to subvert and control.
It doesn't help that 4Chan is filled with shills; just keep doing what YOU believe in. The alt-right or whatever the fuck it becomes will balance out, and this whole thing will keep moving forward.
Have a cup of coffee.
>>70433537
"Listen to all, follow none" is the best advice I can give you. Any of these fucks on the internet who claims to be the all knowing God is a slimy cunt.
>>70434407
I will have to agree with the Canadian on this one. Nationalism can never cease to exist, it's an evolutionary strategy. Knowing this, you should embrace as, as everything else is subjectivist and as such is bound to fail because it's not inherently tied to human nature.
>>70433537
>It occurred to me that this 'cuck' meme is really a psychological trick used to make people realize they're being weak and submissive
Fixed
>>70434605
it* not as
>>70434602
I really really like this quote
>>70433552
>aren't these ideas pretty much based on drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and exaggerating minor differences either don't matter or won't matter for long?
Where does this meme come from?
Is Norway the same country as Saudi Arabia?
No. There is no such thing as an 'arbitrary line in the sand' where borders are concerned.
>>70433537
I have no political opinion.. it doesn't matter if you think about it
>>70434605
Well nationalism has grown pretty limited between western countries. We identify more with each other as Europeans or Westerners more than ever before.
You CAN suppress tribal nationalism. But if you do so you have to replace the tribe with something else. Whether it's the race, the religion, the civilization, whatever.
The tribal instinct will never go away. But it can be harnessed. Doing so requires however, the you recognize that you and those like you form an ingroup against the Other, and that your ingroup in one way or another is in conflict with the Other.
>>70434838
Hi Justin
The alt-right is strong which is why groups like dailystormer are now co-opting it so as to give it that image by association. The irony is that groups like dailystormer are run by kikes and use these group's endorsements to tarnish legitimate organizations as "pro neonazi"
>>70434602
>imperical
Just fucking kill me now
>>70434084
this mentality is fucking stupid.
it´s created sjw´s in the first place.
>>70434605
Nationalism vs Globalism will simply comes down to which side has more power. If UN blue helmets came knocking on your door tomorrow you'd bow down and take hard.
>>70434646
I don't like "cuckoldry." It sexually commoditizes us Black men ( in an unhealthy and rather racist, feminine way) and removes Christ and masculinity from White men. If you think about it the word describes what's going on in the world today.
>>70435024
"Alt right" has become a very constricting term IMO. Alt righters have very different opinions but that's because we care about truth and are individuals. The primary battle will be between those who are open to debate (like /pol) and those who aren't (sjdubs).
>>70435390
Go eat some raw pork you fucking weirdo
>>70433537
A cuck is a man without a spine. For example, someone who has to crawl on his belly to a senegalese ironworking forum and ask for permission to disagree with the users on a few minor political points. A man like that would be the pinnacle of cuckdom, and here you are.
>>70434407
>The idea that nationalism "won't matter for long" is absurd.
Not really. It very well may not be true but it's very far from absurd, in fact. The modern notion of a nation was only invented a few hundred years back, and it's a stage that can be left behind as quickly as it was adopted.
> Ethnic tribalism is the natural state of mankind, and is still practiced by everyone except white westerners.
Ethnic tribalism is the paleolithic default that we fall into when everything more advanced fails.
>>70434500
Quite the contraire, mon frère.
>>70434602
Good post.
>>70434896
Very true but you (and nationalists generally) resist, for some reason, following through to the obvious conclusion.
The history of human social progress is the history of the expansion of the in-group and thus the shrinking of the other. The target at the other end of the range is to replace nationalism with humanism.
To go from conceiving of only our own tiny little tribe as the in-group, and all the rest of creation, including all other humans, as the other, to conceiving of all living humans as our in-group, and shrinking the other to what 19th century science without embarrassment referred to as 'the natural world.'
We're actually very very close to that point. That's why the elites are scared and that's why they have to create wars and divisions and riots and try to resist the natural path of history at this point. Because we are evolving past the point where we need them.
>>70435859
>senegalese ironworking forum
>Not Indian Fecal Fingerpainting board
Missed opportunity right there.
>>70433537
>It occurred to me that this 'cuck' meme
Has anyone else been seeing "cuck" thrown around as a general insult in non-/pol/ type places lately? Am I crazy?
>>70433537
>>70433537
politics is shit. trolling the politically active is relatively fun, though.
>>70435944
>The modern notion of a nation was only invented a few hundred years back
my favorite jew meme
>>70435614
>It sexually commoditizes us Black men
That's half the fun
>removes Christ and masculinity from White men
That's the other half
>>70435024
The way I see it, there's a difference between respecting Nazism and fetishising it.
I don't think Hitler was the pinnacle of nationalism. I think he was a response to a larger problem, and that he was ultimately unsuccessful. I don't go around in a stahlhelm, I don't sing loudly in German when I drink, I try not to be a LARPing wehraboo faggot.
But if someone asks me point blank what I think of Hitler, I'll give them the honest answer that he made an honest attempt to help Germany when nobody else would, and that he was successful right up until the point where the rest of the world dogpiled them. That's not to say we should follow perfectly in his footsteps. Nationalism, more than any other ideology, will not work the same way in every nation. Hitler's nationalism was for Germany, and Germany alone. We need to find that balance where we can speak respectfully of him without being bullied into silence by the "evil racist nazis" narrative, but without crossing over to where we pretend he was the lord and saviour of humanity. The cancer of leftism is far too old for us to pretend WW2 was the turning point.
>>70436215
Huh? More like French. Their Revolution is over well before the 18th century ends. Zionism doesn't even begin to be conceived and talked about until 100 years later.
No that's one idea Jews can't take credit for, sorry.
>>70436658
>Nationalism, more than any other ideology, will not work the same way in every nation
why do some faggots find this so hard to understand?
>>70436843
Meme that nations did not exits before French revolution is the most disgusting disingenuous jew lie that ever existed I feel sorry for you that you fell for it.
>>70435944
>The modern notion of a nation was only invented a few hundred years back
Back in time a nation would simply be an ethnicity, the goal of every nation ever has been protecting said ethnicity.
>>70433537
As said in the latest ramzpaul video, alt-right as a phenomena is gaining allot of traction and you have people like Anglin trying to hop on the train and profit from it.
ethno-nationalism and race realism shouldn't be conflated with nazism only and
The people who want that should just man up and call themselves Nazis and not hide behind the 'alt-right' meme which should be a different thing if people want it to have any mainstream traction at all
>>70437069
But it's actually true. You're the one that's falling for a disingenuous lie. Before the rise of nationalism just a few hundred years ago the concept of a nation-state is not really found. There are a few examples of things resembling it, but the concept of a nation, so deeply implanted in us by the states organs of 'education' was quite seriously missing from the stage.
>>70437106
A common misunderstanding, but completely ahistorical.
The *state* had existed in some form since very early times, and since we are today taught to associate the state and the nation you project nation back into the states of the past, but the states of the pre-nationalist past were normally multi-ethnic.
The Ottomans and the Austrians and yes the British and the Akkadians and the Chinese and the Egyptians and the Russians and so on - ancient states had no particular ethnic identity. They were typically the territory a particular family could hold. The ethnicity of the peasants living that territory was not something that was even considered worth recording in most cases. Their own 'ethnicity' would be something that could be put on and and changed as needed as well.
Only once the modern notion of nationalism takes hold do you start to see that earlier multi-cultural multi-ethnic reality start to reduce to something entirely different. New identities were consciously constructed and propagated by the state, and the peasants (at least those believed to be suitable) were encouraged to adopt their new identities. Those that clung to the old ones faced discrimination and ethnic cleansing.
You really should try the red pill anon.
>>70433552
Don't listen to the far left.
Watch out for neo-nazi fucktards (they are more degenerate than the people they hate, and are nothing like the national socialists of Germany).
Don't let a few bad apples spoil your view.
>>70436843
Nations are just extensions of tribes or what have you. The destiny of men lie in collectivization, growing larger and larger and stronger in order to rapidly increase the rate at which one progresses science and war. When a nation collapses it reverts to some lesser form of tribalism, and then repeats its pattern of reorganizing itself into a larger organic apparatus, the power of which can be used to subdue other ethnicities.
However, I have to say that nations are becoming an increasingly old-fashioned thing. The future lies in race, its stronger than any nationalism ever was.
>>70438987
define nation then
>There are a few examples of things resembling it
Look at the map of medieval Europe notice that most countries that are today already existed back then or have at some point. Don't be dumb goy.
>>70438987
>the states of the pre-nationalist past were normally multi-ethnic.
dominating other ethnicities != being multi-ethnic
>New identities were consciously constructed and propagated by the state
What the fuck? What are these identities supposed to be?
My political views havent changed much at all in the past decade. Back then I was a bleeding heart liberal now im a crazy conservative
>>70439348
No, the future lies in freely chosen communities and corporations. Racial unity is a massive sham. I have very little in common with the average leftist swecuck yet because we share similar melanin levels etc I have some obligation or connection to this person? Nope. At least nationalism has adminstrative functions.
>>70439461
>define nation
"a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own:"
Dictionary definition. It then goes on to give examples, all of them modern nation-states with Presidents etc.
When we project back in time we find the word was used earlier but it didn't have the same meaning. 'Swede' for instance, back in the day, was a 'nation' but it didn't mean the same thing really. Nonetheless in Scandindavia you have what looks closest to modern nations in ancient times, because it was the last land to come out from under the glaciers and therefore the last to be colonized, which made it somewhat ethnically homogenous.
But the modern nation of Sweden is a lot more than the iron age sweodtheod. The modern notion incorporates stuff from the far north and the geats and the French philosophers and various inventions. Most of the peasants *even in Sweden* resisted early efforts to teach them to identify themselves as Swedish and to learn to speak Swedish.
When the state of Italy was created many of the peasants in its territory were still Greek, others were German, still others were Croation, and another group spoke Provençal. Italy is much more typical.
>>70439492
But they were not generally cases of one ethnicity dominating another ethnicity. They were cases of one family dominating other families with 'ethnicity' being seen as relatively unimportant. It would be *typical* in Italian history for instance, to have a Norman ruler, and a small colony of ethnic Normans who are his closest circle of trust, family, bodyguards, etc. ruling a domain which includes Arabs, Sicilians, Greeks, Jews, and quite possibly one or two other distinct in-groups (which are still subtly different from our modern notion of ethnicity or race.)
NONE of the states on this map were ethnic in nature.
>>70441342
>NONE of the states on this map were ethnic in nature.
Correction - none aside from France, which you see a tiny slip of there. But that's just proving my point. The French had just invented their nation at this point. They're still beating the children of languedoc for speaking their native language and trying to convince them to be French throughout this century.
You should stop listening to politically inclined people and listen to philosophers instead to get your political views. Most of politics is literally just parroting what someone else has said that might not even be a good argument. If you read enough philosophy (specifically Plato/Aristotle, stay away from Nihilist nonsense) you will forsake all political labels and use critical thinking in politics instead of just parroting nonsense. I deny aligning with a political ideology, but if you put a gun to my head and told me to label myself, I would say I am a libertarian leaning realist.
>>70441342
>a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own
So basically a thing that existed since the dawn of time? Case closed.
>which made it somewhat ethnically homogenous
this is another jew meme thrown around, that if a one ethnicity dominated another that means that there were no nations because multiculty XD.
>Swedish and to learn to speak Swedish
don't know about Sweden, but Norway even today has hundreds of local dialects, that does not however mean that we are not a nation.
>When the state of Italy was created many of the peasants in its territory were still Greek, others were German, still others were Croation, and another group spoke Provençal. Italy is much more typical.
No clue what you are even trying to say. That there were minorities in Italy? Okay. You know a lot of those minorities still exist today.
>NONE of the states on this map were ethnic in nature.
Maybe point to non ex Holy Roman Empire country next time?
personally i'm just sick of the reddit spam
has /pol/ even done anything similar back during this american election shit? don't tell me we're the mature ones here that's scary
no countries that represented their ethnicity here goys
>>70433552
>I liked the old anti-SJW movement, but now that the alt-right
A
FUCKING
LEAF
>>70433537
You've always considered yourself a brand new term that was created this election cycle.
you get the idea
>>70442409
First no, that's not existed from the dawn of time, not at all. For most of human history we lived mobile lifestyles and had endless expanses of territory available for expansion. Most of this stuff only starts to develop after the frontiers are exhausted and population densities get high.
There's no one ethnicity dominating others in that scenario you person of average intelligence. Try again.
Norway is even more homogenous than Sweden, since you don't have any Swedes, but you still have an incredible diversity that the state suppressed when nationalism was adopted and some of it has survived to this day.
The Swedes have the most though, think about it. They have Norrlands with both Norwegian and Finnish and Saami, they have Jämtland which really makes more sense in Norway but history, they have Skåne which is (well was) Danish.
And Scandinavia came out from under the ice very late. In these areas it was far far more complicated. Italy alone has at least 400 recorded dialects, representing several different language families.
>>70443825
existed since the people began to settle fine
>There's no one ethnicity dominating others in that scenario you person of average intelligence
they controlled Finland and Sami territories which even today have not assimilated into Swedish nationality due to their distinctive language and culture. If what you are saying was true they would all be Swedish by now
>but you still have an incredible diversity that the state suppressed when nationalism was adopted and some of it has survived to this day
Is this some sort of joke, dialect does not mean whole different language.
>The Swedes have the most though, think about it. They have Norrlands with both Norwegian and Finnish and Saami, they have Jämtland which really makes more sense in Norway but history, they have Skåne which is (well was) Danish.
Still what are you trying to say that minorities exist?
>And Scandinavia came out from under the ice very late. In these areas it was far far more complicated. Italy alone has at least 400 recorded dialects, representing several different language families.
again your point?
>>70444729
>existed since the people began to settle fine
actually no there were and still are nomadic nations so you are wrong
>>70433537
>justin bieber on pol
well, time to leave to double chan
>>70443408
>WE WAZZ KINGZ AN SHITZ
This is my though every time i see 14th century europe map
>>70445245
>KINGZ
not
>DUKES AN SHIET
>>70433537
This is good, your feelings are good. You become a REAL cuck the moment your personal beliefs, arrived at through rational thought, become subservient to your "party" or "political orientation." You are free to take any stance you choose on any unrelated, individual issue.
>>70445533
Isnt it like the same shit only Kings were actually appointed by Pope or something.
Now that i think about it, Vatican had fuckton of power back then.
>>70445819
Vertimas is anglu i lietuviu raso kad kunigaikstis yra duke, bet tu esi teisus praktiskai ta ir reiske tais laikais
>>70433552
OP I see where you're coming from. I'm a tight borders nationalist and I want to see European cultures preserved, but I'm not a stormfag calling for genocide of the mud races either. Cultures that can live side by side with us are fine (Bro tier sikhs, etc.) but we need immigration policy to be careful about eradicating Europeans too. Cultures that are NOT able to live near us peacefully (Islamism) needs to be kept out.
That said, "arbitrary lines" are not arbitrary. Borders define countries, which are defined by culture, history, art, music, literature, cuisine, tradition, and literally everything that makes up human life. People that say borders aren't real need to think long and hard about this.
>>70444729
>existed since the people began to settle fine
No, started to come into existence at some point AFTER permanent settlements cover all of the usable land.
>they controlled Finland
Until they gave it to Russia.
>Still what are you trying to say that minorities exist?
No you're still missing the point I suppose it's over your head.
The *normal thing* through most of human history has been the multi-ethnic state. The entire idea of the opposite - an ethnic then super-ethnic or civic national state - is very new.
Tell me this then, since obviously you think I am wrong. How many Kings has Norway had? How many of them were Norwegian?
>>70446247
>Cultures that can live side by side with us are fine
most of the time they don't
>policy to be careful about eradicating Europeans too
Even if all immigrants assimilate they will still be different. There won't be niggers in Poland that anyone will call them Polish, unless some liberal cuck
>>70446599
nah, ever heard of Jews (before they settled and after they ran out of Israel), Mongols, Samies or any other nomadic nation?
>Until they gave it to Russia
your point?
>The *normal thing* through most of human history has been the multi-ethnic state. The entire idea of the opposite - an ethnic then super-ethnic or civic national state - is very new.
that is literally irrelevant if non ethnic nations existed it was because they conquered some other land. Why are you even trying to debate if you already conceded that nations existed for thousands of years in your previous posts
>Tell me this then, since obviously you think I am wrong. How many Kings has Norway had? How many of them were Norwegian?
What is the point of discussing dynasties?
>>70447450
I'm talking about Canada. We've been multicultural for too long to turn back the clock. Going forward we just need to be selective.
>>70433537
The alt right and WN movements are very alike in that both believe that politically what needs to happen is a blossoming of white racial identity and a willingness to defend it and attack those who threaten it.
I think they are absolutely right, I don't think the west will ever get out of its current rut and I believe the further we go into the decline spiral the more radical we will need to become to reverse it.
>>70447740
Yea well I understand Canada and USA position since your countries were not build on nationalities, but on ideas (don't really know if that is true for Canada).
>>70448061
Canada was a pan-european experiment but Trudeau the 1st cucked us with multiculturalism. It's not that bad but it will be if we keep importing jihadists.
>>70448342
>Trudeau the 1st cucked us with multiculturalism
that is what you get when you elect commie sympathizer
>>70448657
I know anon. I know.
