Wait, do Christians have to listen to the Old Testament i.e. the fucking Jewish Torah?
What the actual literal fuck
No, they don't
>>70312318
Why do atheists keep bringing it up as a proof of god's evil?
Don't they claim to be educated to the point of euphoria?
The New Testament was also written by Jews, so what's the problem?
>>70312553
You write, we burn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition#Expulsion_of_Jews_and_repression_of_conversos
>>70312281
It's not a full Torah. It's the edited version. Christians don't have Lilith on Genesis, for example.
>>70313027
She's mentioned in the Midrash and the Talmud, Christians didn't edit the Torah they just badly translated it.
>>70312281
We only read about the blood libel
>>70312281
the new testament succeeds
ufortunately they don't
modern non religious westerners think the old testament somehow is christianity. but those following the teachings of christ (i.e. not the heretical pope or some apostasy apostle) only view the old testament as some kind of historical depiction of the olden times
>>70313222
BLAME HIM >>70313321
>>70312281
Old testament tends to be either a history book including all the prophecies that foretell cheist or laws that just applied to jews at the time e.g. deuteronomy.
It still holds a lot of important lessons that can be learned from as well as the 10 commandments because those were directly written by God himself.
New testament is where most of our attention goes.
>>70312380
It's because they fell for the age old meme of "Jesus was a Jew".
Jesus existed to refute the religion of Judaism. That is why he was crucified as a blasphemer. Pretty simple.
>>70313758
He was king of the jews. It's all there.
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law (John7:19)
Yes but modern Christians are pagans who are destined for the fires of hell
>>70313397
yea but 1st corinthians has a shit ton of rules in it. not just food stuff but dress code ,approved hair cuts and who is allowed to talk in a church
old testament is way easier
>>70312281
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19
heathens of /pol/ will be "called least" in heaven. You'll be the niggers of heaven.
>>70313814
Yeah Moses gave them the 10 commandments direct from God but the religious leaders of those times rather follow their own laws instead of God's.
>>70312281
Paul said "fuck this jewish shit", and since then only pagans (like evangelists) and kikes have to follow the torah.
>>70312281
You "jews" don't even believe in the Torah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=styLx-iWwC8
>>70313896
That's paul writing a letter to them and why he wrote what he wrote makes sense in context.
>>70312281
In medieval russia we called protestants the jewwannabees and burned them for that. Fuck old testament and evil joos. Christ came for a reason you heretics.
>>70313896
yeah because stoning gays, adulterers, blasphemers and apostates is easy, and you will be loved by the entire world (see: "Islamic" State)
>>70313520
Wrong.
2 Timothy 3:16
>All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
>>70314012
Wrong, only ceremonial jewish law was abolished, not all the other laws
>>70312281
No. New Testament supersedes the Old Testament. Ten Commandments still apply but that's it.
>>70312380
Because they're stupid.
>>70314046
Ironic considering catholics (including eastern orthodox) are the real judaizers
>>70314290
>t. woman bishop
>>70313808
Wrong. That was the excuse that the pharisees made up to convince Pilate to crucify him. If he claimed Sovereignty above Rome's appointed rulers, they had to crucify him.
When Pilate asked Jesus if he was truly king of the Jews, he replied "It is as you say."
Him and his father were one. The rule of God extended beyond Judah. God the father is king of all nations, therefore to say Jesus was not king of the Jews would be a lie and a blasphemy.
This was the excuse used to crucify him and was used to mock him as the Jews delivered him into the Roman's hands to be executed. This is why they nailed that statement onto his cross.
He was NOT king of the Jews in the eyes of Rome or Judah. He was the king of all men and preached teaching contradictory to much of Judaism.
Question for heebfriends
What's the deal with the little finger on a stick thing they use when they're reading?
Can't they just follow the lines with their eyes like everyone else?
>>70312380
>>70314031
ADL Deeply Troubled at Upcoming Documentary Film Denigrating Jews and Judaism
New York, NY, November 24, 2014 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) is deeply troubled by the upcoming release of a new “documentary” geared toward Christian audiences that purportedly will focus on “the history of the Jews,” but in fact will likely serve as a tool for denigrating Jews and Judaism.
The documentary film, “Marching to Zion” is a project of Steve Anderson, the pastor of the Faithful World Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona, and Paul Wittenberger, a conspiracy-oriented filmmaker from Los Angeles. Anderson, who has a history of anti-Semitism through his sermons and a series of YouTube videos, is co-producing the film with Wittenberger.
Slated for release in March 2015, the documentary’s promotional materials describe the film as covering a number of anti-Jewish themes, ranging from claims that “Judaism’s Messiah” is the Antichrist, to the “blasphemous teachings of the Talmud and Kabbalah,” to “scriptural evidence that the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people.” Anderson is heavily promoting it on YouTube.
>>70312281
true christian catholic here.
yes Old Testament before christ and the New Testament after christ, i understand jews only recognise the old one. we do believe in both as it was before christ and after christ
>>70314455
swedish church is garbage. its not very much like the pharisees though
>>70314762
>ADL Deeply Troubled
Literally an endorsement
>>70314290
>catholics (including eastern orthodox)
Whoa easy there. Catholics are heretics, suddenly proclaiming roman pope > other local popes in Consthantinopole, Alexandria and Syria around X century.
>>70314700
Not a heeby-jeeby but it's because the dirt and oils on your hands can ruin the scroll and Torah scrolls are extremely large and valuable (especially back in the day)
Reading from the Torah is often accompanied by swaying back and forth which understandably can lead to losing your place in the text.
>>70313758
>>70314614
Wrong. He refuted the jewish corruption that is rabbinic judaism, the talmud, the tradition of the elders. He did not refute the Torah. The people who call themselves jews are not jews, they don't even believe in the Torah >>70314031
>>70314825
Can you tell me how RCC and EOC are judaizers? We have never liked the jews, but we share some minor similarities because first christians were jews, you protestants on the other hand were in the start as anti-semitic as we were but after couple centuries you have started cucking to them like you were crypto-heebs all along
>>70314911
That's barely a heresy
>>70314762
Yeah whats your point
>>70314780
Jews recognize neither >>70314031
>>70314944
Ah. Makes sense.
Now my next question is.
Why don't you have to make a burning altar to talk to God anymore? It worked in the Old Testament.
>>70315177
PTSD
>>70314911
>>70315012
http://www.gotquestions.org/Judaizers.html
Fucking Protestants.
>>70312281
No. We read it, but the rules are irrelevant because the new testament overrules it.
See it as a history lesson.
>>70315350
Stop lying.
>>70313896
>Following anything the fake 'Apostle' Saul(Paul) of Tarsus wrote.
It's like you haven't actually studied the words of Jesus to know that Paul is full of shit, literal wolf in sheep's clothing, bearer of bad fruit.
Jesus's own words and commands refute the core of Pauline Christianity, not to mention Revalations making a direct refrence to Christians that you shouldn't listen to Paul.
>>70315012
>That's barely a heresy
Well they did some more, like changing our symbol of faith, adding a few words. It was fucking locked for a reason, to prevent new heresies (there was shitton of heresies in early centuries), and then catholics come and change it just to troll east.
But even alone it's still a heresy, nobody is sin-free, this whole "roman pope makes no mistakes" smells like devil. Orthodox patriarchs gather and vote on importaint decisions about faith, one man can't just decide this stuff alone.
>>70314130
>apostasy apostle
>>70314990
I agree with you to an extent. Not all of the knowledge included in Torah comes from God. A lot of it is a historical account of the Jewish people and what they had done in the past.
Take the book of Leviticus for example. It lays many laws before the Jewish people and claims that they are all commandments by God which Jesus later refutes such as the practice of circumcision, eating pork, the practice of keeping Sabbath, among many others.
What Jesus tells us is that there are a few philosophical principles that we must follow to obey what God wishes of us (such as can be found in his parables and sermons). If any teaching in any religion contradicts these teachings than it is not of God, but of man which is precisely why atheists love to pick apart Christianity by pointing out how the teachings of Jesus Christ contradict the teachings of the Old Testament.
They naturally contradict one another because Jesus existed to refute those of the physical circumcision (AKA those who claim to be Jews (Chosen of God) but are not and are of the synagogue of Satan).
There is plenty of scriptural proof for this. It's really a shame that most churches see this as a heresy. Martin Luther knew this truth well and that is exactly why he is hated by Jews and so called "traditional Christians".
That isn't to say we must hate and kill all Jews, simply point out to them the error of their ways as Jesus did for us.
>>70315523
>citation needed
>>70315634
>trail of blood
>>70314130
>>70315654
This claim ties in nicely to what I was saying in my previous post. The Old Testament is included in the bible to give context to the corrections of Jesus Christ. Jews may certainly believe that they are following the will of God and I am sure all of them are inspired by the Holy Spirit to follow the Torah even if there are errors within it.
As Christians, we must use the OT "for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
>>70315654
You don't know what you're talking about. The bible says all scripture is inspired by God. After Jesus there was a new covenant, we don't need to be circumcized anymore. Circumcision came from God though, it's not man made. Even Jesus got circumcized. Why would Jesus get circumcized if that wasn't proper judaism at the time?
Where did Martin Luther talk about this? Please cite
>>70314762
The Israelites were chosen by God because they were the weakest, so that all would see his glory when those scrubs somehow managed to overcome impossible odds.
>>70315538
True, at least the changes in 18th and 19th century turned it into heresy
>>70315177
Animal sacrifice is still practiced by Orthodox Jews on certain holidays.
For instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrKys_0gdjk
As for burnt offerings, those where delegated for the Kohanim to practice exclusively, and since the scattering of the tribes, whom these people are is pretty much a mystery.
>>70316136
>whom these people are is pretty much a mystery.
Not really true, those who have the Surname Cohen are those people.
I'm not religious though, that's what I've been told
In russian lang old testament is literally called dilapidated, decayed. "Vethiy zavet" Like something so old and useless it's kinda forgotten there on the shelf.
>>70315924
Jews don't believe in the Torah though, they believe in the talmud. >>70314031
The bible mentions them:
Revelation 3:9
>Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
The "jews" think the torah is a collection of stories and parables but that nothing of it really happened. They don't observe the torah laws and commandments, they dont believe in hell, they dont believe in torah creationism. They believe in the talmud. That is what Jesus refuted when he spoke against the rabbis. He didn't refute the torah.
Jesus speaking in matthew 5
>Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
>For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The law is not abolished but some things were changed
>>70315538
>changing our symbol of faith, adding a few words
Tell me more.
>>70315984
The very existence of Jesus was to forgive transgressions and give people the means to repent. His parents had him circumcised because once again, they were born into the ways of their tribe as was Jesus. His parents were not flawless or immaculate nor did the circumcision make Jesus flawless or immaculate or damaged and unclean.
You see, this was the quintessence of his teachings. It is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of a man. It does not matter if the dross of the penis is cut, it matters if the dross of the spirit is removed.
As for Martin Luther, see "The Jews and their Lies"
>>70314762
If you've read the bible, its obvious they aren't Gods chosen people anymore. The tribe of Judah broke their covenant when they refused to accept the messiah and killed their savior. Fucking christ killers and especially their "christian" apologists are so stupid when it comes to theology
>>70316464
Filioque controversy. Google it, but basically romans added "holy spirit comes from son" and not just from father like in original. Now it kinda makes sense but that's not the point, the point is that you don't rewrite it however you like.
>>70316480
I know martin luther despised the jews and with good reason but he's not saying the same things that you are saying. Show me the bible verse that says circumcision was ever a corruption invented by man
>>70316316
The Jewish perception of what the law is was flawed from the start (just as all of our perception is flawed, which is why we are given the opportunity to repent in Christianity). The law of God never changes and therefore, no matter what the Torah or the Talmud says, the law will remain unchanged.
This is precisely why in the same chapter he states
>"For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."
>>70317012
>The law of God never changes
Chapter and verse please.
>>70316708
I'm Muslim.
The oral tradition predates the written Bible and gives it its revelatory status and establishes its divinity, so the idea that Jews believe in the Talmud and not the Bible is nonsensical.
Christianity is just a Paganized version of the Bible, the Gentiles innately reject the commandments so they had to insert into Jesus's biography their rehashed Pagan myths in order to justify their refusal to obey the laws that Jesus and all his disciples actually kept.
>>70316951
Philippians 3: 1-11
>Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— though I myself have reasons for such confidence. If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.
The formatting may be a bit off as it was a copy and paste, but you can certainly reference your bible.
>>70317259
>and gives it its revelatory status and establishes its divinity
Source please, genuinly curious.
>>70317326
That doesn't say circumcisuion was ever a corruption that was invented by man, it just says circumcision has been abolished.
>>70317225
It is implied in the same chapter, Matthew 5, when Jesus said that it will remain intact until it is fulfilled or until heaven and earth pass away. Not one jot of the law of god will be changed, nor will the law. That which is NOT the law of God and contradicts the law of God in Torah was pointed out by Christ and refuted. That does not change the law, it clarifies and exalts the law.
>>70312281
IIRC Jesus says somewhere in the NT that everything in the Torah holds true.
So is it relevant, yes, It also introduces a shitload of ambiguities and falsities, because the NT contradicts the OT in many parts.
>>70317564
No, it says the same thing by telling Christians not to boast confidence in the flesh, as the circumcision is of the law of the Pharisees while they persecute the Church of Christ. The church does not boast confidence in the flesh as the pharisees do, but boasts confidence in righteousness based in the faultless law and teachings of Jesus Christ.
What's so special about those scrolls they can't read it as a book or pdf? Looks like an inefficient novelty.
