I seriously believe that someone planted misinformation amongst those who hate SJWs. Why? Because Habermas conception of the public sphere and how it existed in history to exclude people is incredibly relevant to what are experiencing.
so, let me first state what habermas did and then i'll tell you why it is relevant. So habermas studied the public sphere, how it functions, what sort of structures and properties it has. What habermas found was that the public sphere always had features of exclusion. Before, folks who didn't own property were excluded from participation (nobles were part of the public sphere in monarchies), or based on other things (women voting, blah blah blah), but the pertinent feature throughout was that people were excluded and the exclusion was often strategic, purposeful. The importance of this to Habermas is that it flies in the fast of Liberal (big L, classical Liberal) values that free speech should be afford to all. One of the later insights Habermas developed was that there was seeing a trend in how the control of who can participated the public sphere existed. He anticipated that norms of participation would shift, and that through language, because of communicative technologies, will be the criteria of control/allowance of participation.
why is this relevant: we are a group of people who are witnessing little by little the systematic exclusion of our views from participating and competing in the public sphere.
>Habermas
>Frankfurt school
Get the fuck out with your marxist propaganda.
>>70230505
Learn 2 read bro.
It's your inability to think critically that makes you a cuck.
>>70230028
>why is this relevant: we are a group of people who are witnessing little by little the systematic exclusion of our views from participating and competing in the public sphere.
Yes
>>70230505
Because most of you can't even deal with reality
CIA financed Franfurth school scholars.
Habermas' idealogiekritik is a form of taking the red pill.
What people think of when they attack 'muh cultural marxism' is actually elements of Gramsci and Marcuse.
The Apel and Habermas generation is pretty useful when it comes to understanding modern communication and discourse
>>70230645
the CIA needed to fund the frankfurt school. They needed understanding of societies that can help them function in various places of the world. The most weirdest public spheres in the world are the ones found in islamic societies. It's pretty fucking weird, we all know islam is viewed by muslims as perfect. so everything must find justification in islam. this is the barrier to participation over there, even the state must be justified. the solution states and political elites in the muslim world came up to this problem is creating a form of "debate' where they fund basically excuse makers. If muslims ever become smart enough to say, yeah, just because mohammed did it, it doesn't mean its a good thing, oh man. no more isis.
>>70230942
100% but we on this side sadly haven't done our interpretations of his work. The most accessible ones are like catholics imbuing their dogma into Christianity. You get a tidied version of something that doesn't let you understand where Hambermas take starts and the author's interpretation ends.
>>70230028
Most relevant insight to pol that Hambermas is that classical Liberalism and the value of free speech can't protect us from being excluded from the public sphere, and we are seeing that.
>>70231652
is the internet public sphere or not?
if you really think about it most of what people say is the result of "cultural marxism" is really the inherent globalist and degenerate effects of technology.
>>70232640
>internet
some parts of the internet are the public sphere, whereas other parts are the private sphere. public sphere must have contact with the state in order to effect change. So, on the internet, public sphere would be major platforms where discourse happens whereas private spheres would be here.
> cultural marxism
technology plays a role, but if you look into the specific movements and (most importantly) the people who behind what we consider SJW bullshit, there is a history. the internet made it global, but they aren't globalist. they are just actors in our respective societies trying to do what people has always have done, gain power and shape the world to their liking.
like, in canada we got BLM. BLM doesn't make sense in the canadian context. Africans in canada aren't ghettoized people, and many africans living in canada aren't even tied to the history of slavery. It makes very little sense to have a BLM in canada, right? Yet it still exist. The reason for its existence is pretty apparent: they basically imported from america a means to get their demands.
>>70232640
Cultural Marxism is just Marxism applied to areas outside of economics, ie "culture" rather than the strict economic materialism of Marxism proper.
The bourgeoisie oppressing the proletariat (proper economic Marxism) becomes men oppressing women (Marxism applied to gender), or whites opressing PoC (Marxism applied to race) etc.
The bourgeoisie/men/whites have to be abolished to create a classless utopia free from exploitation and oppression. Marxism, economic and "cultural".
>>70233470
>they want to create a classless society
>sjws creating a new class of victimhood with a false consciousness that devalues the other.
come on bro. stop repeating memes. Habermas is pretty much red pill if you bother to read the shit. B
>>70233470
Asians are being converted into SJWs by feeling ashamed of their status as a model minority in the west (canada and us) and believing they habour deep seated anti-black racism. They fall into this because they get bullied into it. It's so disgusting to see someone feel guilty for doing nothing wrong.
>>70230505
Guilt by association is SJW tier reasoning.
>>70233470
Muh oppression isn't Marxism and you don't need Marx to feel bad about yourself and indignant at the world over being fat/black/female/gay.
>>70234313
Habermas isn't pro-marxist.
I also now finally get why numales and asians are easily bullied into accepting SJWism. It's because they view that the other (and whites are so easily trapped by this) will do unto them, what they do to them. I remember reading a german article of a pro-refugee supporting now questioning his support. He said he dreamt of having neighbours who would join them for a block party, and bbq and play soccer together in the field and over all enjoy life. They never imagine that these folks don't want that.
>>70233470
Marxism is the opposite of identity politics: Marx's understanding of class conflict isn't identity politics because there's no "good" side to identify with. Both capital and labor are, for Marx, produced systemically. That means you're not a good guy Jedi Knight just because you work in a factory, you're not bad guy cis white male because you own one. The whole point is to get beyond the moralizing tendencies of parochial identity politics. Thus why Marx held many views identitarians are outraged by: anti feminist, anti semitic, so on.
>>70234515
I know. Habermas is basically a Liberal Kantian investigating how power/culture limits secular politics.
>>70230942
yep, Marcuse is the key to Cultural Marxism.
>>70230505
>I don't want to learn from my enemies
You fucking suck.
>>70234611
?
I think marxism understanding of economics and how society works is flawed, in that there is a shared consciousness amongst whole swaths of a population, and that capitalism is inherently bad, or inherently anything.
>>70234780
Yep, Habermas is liberal like Kant and I really wonder why these associations against Habermas exist.
>>70234926
Critical theory is used as, not a rule book, but as a theory of how society works and it is up to the reader to make use of that knowledge to manipulate and respond to society.
>>70230028
Habermas needs to be recognized as the only member of the Frankfurt school that wasn't intolerably marxist.
>>70235155
>Critical theory is used as, not a rule book, but as a theory of how society works and it is up to the reader to make use of that knowledge to manipulate and respond to society.
I don't take critical theory very very seriously. Critical theory itself is a kind of cultural product. It's an object that has an effect and, as far as I'm able to ascertain, it's a kind of mind spell that can work against certain people.
There must be some element built into it like "power relation" and "systems of oppression" and "ideology as a way to maintain oppression". Critical theory undermines the official ideology by reducing all of its higher manifestations to base instincts, which a person dominated by same will understand.
>>70235516
wrong. 100% wrong.
critical theory is just words. words don't do shit. critical thoery is also inaccessible. those words are not widely know, especially what they mean. Yet, regardless of the obscurity of critical theory, there is something going on. Only a fool can point their finger to words as the culprit.
also, critical theory is a study of the political system. if a biologist tells you that bed bugs exist, do you go around blaming the biologist for the existence of bed bugs? This is what pol and those who face SJWs basically believe. They don't get that these facets were anticipated, and anticipation by these folks doesn't equate to it being created by these folks.
What we are experiencing today is manipulation and the operation of the system described by these folks.
BLM, SJWs, feminists bullying in tech, "thought crimes", these are new forms of things that exist to eliminate certain folks from participating in the public sphere. It's warfare, and only a retard would blame a theorist as cause of a war if they anticipated how certain facets can affect that outcome.
also, critical theorists view ideology as a false consciousness. the notion of false consciousness cuts both ways: if what SJWs is fighting for is a false consciousness because they see it as ideological, their ideology is also a false consciousness and war on false consciousness hides what those conflicts attempt to change.
also, and this is fundamental: critical theorists accepted that classical Liberalism and freedoms do not guarantee freedom.
>>70235516
Even the book you mention, there is a chapter called real interest. the SJW ideology is a false consciousness that fools buy into, and that hides the real interest. It is important to stop the ideology, to kill it in its tracts, but to understand what the real interest of the ideology (a power grab, btw) is to understand how to fight back.
the ideological battles as being played out here and on youtube with explainer and commentary videos, that's isn't enough.
