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Why are libertarians such a cult of sociopaths?
I agree with like 90% of what they say, but then they always have to take it too far and step into suicidal extreme territory.
Crisis of being an ideologue, I guess. That being said, I think it's good to have them mixed into our political process. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
>>70220955
>they always have to take it too far and step into suicidal extreme territory.
examples?
>>70220955
NOT AN ARGUMENT
>>70220955
Not sociopathic,you are too much of a pussy to embrace the most alpha ideology.
>>70220955
>Why are libertarians such a cult of sociopaths?
>I agree with like 90% of what they say
Interesting
>>70220955
Hey mang dis da free market baby
You're confusing us with ancaps, that's about as misguided as confusing all fascists with Nazis.
More liberty for the individual doesn't necessarily mean no government. I'd argue that no government would reduce the liberty of the individual as there would be nothing to check bad actors who violate the NAP. Society without government would be like hockey without a referee.
>>70221246
>m-m-m-muh r-r-roads
>>70221953
There would be 2 securities officers killing that retard for entering in the private streets of someone elses property. Check mate retards. The market would kill all the dindus
>>70222081
Urbanizations have roads,and they are privatly owned!!!!!
Blown the fuck out retard
Cuz they're all tough guys who would totally come out on top if it weren't for the gubmint. Yup. Just let the big money run free and everything will be fine cuz the REAL ALPHA LIBERTARIANS got it all figured out.
>>70222903
Pussy statist detected.
If you cant success or get laid,is because you are pathetic,not because the market is unfair. Grow a pair of balls and stop behaving like a pussy.
>>70221246
Stuff like having no real checks against ruining the environment. You can do what you want with your privately owned land, including ruin it for profit. It stays ruined, you move on to acquire new land with the profit you made.
All the "People would want to take care of their property" in the world isn't going to help the fact that it does happen and would happen more if the dreaded EPA were abolished and all environmental regulations done away with like libertarians want.
>>70223174
>i'll be a millionaire one day i swear!
>meanwhile in Europe's mexico
enjoying the giggle you have served me good sir. I'm a classical liberal but to suggest that the market can fix every single fucking issue is absurd.
>>70223174
Lol typical. You have no idea who I am or what I do with my time. This meat head right here is a prime libertardian example. You're probably a scrawny little fucboi yourself. Go re apply your axe body spray BRO
>>70223217
The EPA does nothing but to be bribed by lobists. For example private organizations are doing more things for the environment than the whole goverment ever. Thanks to the goverment,cleaner sources of economy have been shut down,because lobbists made lots of money with coal,gas and oil
>>70223323
>Implying that I am not a millionaire.
I made a fortune during the buble days,and I quited before it exploded.
The market can fix almost every issue possible better than the goverment. Only few things should remain under the goverment control (Justice,defence and diplomacy).
>>70223439
And you're dodging his entire point: extremist libertarians don't believe in any regulation on the environment. And for whatever reason most people who refer to themselves as libertarians end up being extremists.
Open borders is another silly libertarian joke. If you don't believe in open borders then congrats, that's one thing you disagree with libertarians on.
>>70223369
Retard,learn to write your own language. You are just making a fool out of yourself. You dont have to be a genious to spot a retard
>>70223629
>The buble days
>I quited before it exploded
Geez man at least try not to sound like a 5 year old if you're going to lie on the internet
>>70223736
ok i feel like a fuckhead for falling for this bait now
>>70220955
Most I've met are obnoxious faggots. I went to church for a little bit and this one bald headed faggot always talked about "Muh political science degree" , "we becoming facist", etc. Almost as bad as his soldier friend who failed training the first time, goes back in and passed and now thinks he is the shit who knows everything. I fucking hate libertarians.
>>70223736
>Retard,learn to write your own language. You are just making a fool out of yourself. You dont have to be a genious to spot a retard
Wut take your own advice smhtbqwufam
>>70220955
Could you bring an example?
>>70223847
plz go back to highschool.
>>70223670
First of all there are libertarian ideas for the environment,for example law firms could sue companies,if they pollute,instead of some lobbists stablishing the cealing of pollution,that is totally arbitrary.
Libertarians inmigration policies relies simply on free contracts,stablished by the members of small communities. This means,that if you dont want niggers in your neighbouhood,this should be allowed,as it is your free will. Inform yourself before you type nonesense
>>70223217
that's funny because the government is the biggest destroyer of the environment
>>70223439
this is what I mean about the 10% that pushes lebertarians into the sociopath catagory. I bring up a point about lack of environmental protections of private land, and he avoids the topic and talks about government corruption and gives a vague pat on the back to unnamed private parties. Never once addressing the point.
I agree the government is corrupt, I agree private organizations can do good things in ways the government can not. That is the 90% that I'm with you on, but that is not the point.
>>70224030
>mad at me for using internet maymays on his serious man internet board. Lol I'm done with you neckbeards
>>70220955
There are paleolibertarians and then there are all of the sub-libertarian libertarians
>>70223772
I live in one the most expensive places in Madrid. My house alone is worth 1,75 million euros,and it is fully paid. That makes me a millionaire.
>>70220955
Same. I like their outlook but they all descend into same trap as commies, they ignore human nature.
Too much freedom has same effect as too little freedom.
>>70224176
I answer that later. Environmental laws that allows to sue companies at any pollution rate,instead of putting an arbitrary ceilling.
>>70220955
you always need ideological extremists to take control, then you tone them down (execute them, expatriate them etc). People don't want a lukewarm revolution, they want a RAHGGGHGH revolution.
>libertardians = useful idiots
>>70224034
I don't remember reading that in the Libertarian Manifesto by David Boaz.
>>70224158
Again, avoiding the point entirely. Why is it so hard to get a libertarian to talk about what they are for instead of what they are against?
>>70224251
Still doesn't mean you're not a worthless piece of trash
>>70223217
Yeah, thank god we live in a democratic society where factories, cars, cows and oil drilling preserve our beautiful forests and mountains.
>>70223670
>extremist libertarians don't believe in any regulation on the environment
I can't help but think you're just making this up. A lot of us don't think there should be an EPA, but there are 50 states with their own governments that have every right to have a state wide environmental agency if the people in a particular state think it's a good idea.
>>70224034
Yes because that delusional solution is far less corrupt and I'm sure a for profit company wouldn't just be paid off. Obviously this happens in the current system as well but assuming anything noble is done its best handled by laws and not random lawsuits. Making it something you could sue over in the first place is still not libertarian, or at least the meme version of it, anyways.
Keyword small communities. No say about them getting into the country in the first place.
>>70224216
>leaving
>>70224522
>still here
What's it like to be 17 in 2016?
>>70221246
Socialized healthcare = slavery for example
>>70224577
So you're not a libertarian. You're a regionalist.
>>70224216
>Jokes on you guys
>I was only pretending to be retarded
>>70223670
Extremists of any ideology are retarded.
No one solution can fix anything. To suggest such a thing is laughable.
>>70224560
And again, avoiding the point. All libertarians ever do is talk about how evil the government is. They refuse to talk about their own beliefs and the inherent flaws in them.
>>70224754
Americans don't have a real nation or identity so they tend to see things that way
only thing that connects them to another American is the fact they live in the same state
>>70224510
you're ignoring the point yourself when you install a feckless bureaucracy, then plug your ears and cover your eyes when it's revealed that your solution is an even bigger problem
typical statist tactics
fortunately i don't need to get you to talk about what you're for, because all you're for is "more government"
>>70224754
forcing doctors to work for less money than what they normally charge would be slavery
of course no one is stopping all you well-meaning socialists from becoming doctors and working for low pay
but shockingly none of you seem too interested in doing that
>>70223670
Yeah? If I wanted to burn down a forest for my own amusement on my property then so be it. The only thing that protects it from spreading is the hippy land owner next door claiming that I devalue or damage his property, thus I either pay reparations or cease what I'm doing. Otherwise, it's all going up in flame.
Education and social morals, pressured by family, peers and acquaintances could only make a man not behave in such a way in the first place.
Regarding "Open Borders" every "libertarian" should read Hans-Hermann Hoppe's article "A Realistic Libertarianism"
>In a world where all places are privately owned, the immigration problem vanishes. There exists no right to immigration. There only exists the right to trade, buy or rent various places.
And he asks these questions, then proposing how the issue could be solved
>What would immigration policies be like if the State would, as it is supposed to do, act as a trustee of the taxpayer-owners’ public property? What about immigration if the State acted like the manager of the community property jointly owned and funded by the members of a housing association or gated community?
>>70224597
Nope,it will work much better,because I could sue people,if I think that their damaging the environment,instead of a bunch of polititians putting an arbitrary ceiling. Libertarians support the privatization of streets and citites,all the land woukd be divided in small communities.
>>70224510
I'm a libertarian and here's what I am for:
Strong workers rights
Reduction in state-sponsored:
High taxation
Plentiful government handouts for being out of work
Public Services
What do you want to know? What is a liberal for and against? It's a vague question. Ask for an issue and I'll answer it.
>>70225036
let me give you the closest example of libertarian society: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
from the perspective of it's nobles, it was libertarian
see how they ended up
>>70224522
Success breads jealousy I guess. Enjoy living food stamp by food stamp.
>>70224873
That's OP's point though. I'm sure very few people here are full-on 3rd Reich, for example. But Libertarians for a number of reasons have become a den of ideologues. They can hardly address many of their solutions to things, either assuming that child workers in sweatshops will be removed by the free market, that the government failing in one regard means that it should all be axed, etc. The movement has been memed up beyond belief.
>>70224905
Which isn't a bad thing imo. However we've even lost State identity ever since they changed Senate elections into a populist ordeal.
>>70220955
You realize you didn't make an argument right?
Guys watch the "Trump Effect" before the EA fags take it down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F082JKzJqE
Also check out Donald Trump.:"Our only hope?"
Great Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zafmqQ3G0I
>>70225164
How is that libertarianism? That is a borderline retarded comparison. The nobles voted for weak kings,but said nobles didnt respect libertarian principles. It was just an aaristocratic society,and on top of that surrounded by big nations. Your comparison is limiting retardation
>>70224957
I already agreed the government is corrupt and started the thread saying that I am 90% on your side. You are demonstrating the 10% of your ideology that I despise.
>>70225219
When you live on a vast empty continent isolated from other centers of power, it's not
oh and this is the reason for American success
and you wouldn't be as rich as you are now (in general) without your interventionism and power of your state
think about it
>>70223217
>You can't "destroy" your own property because my feelings tell me it's anti-environment and wrong
Did I sum it up correctly? Can you give me an objective reason why it's wrong to "destroy" your own property?
Also it's not economically viable for people to just keep throwing away property, so this isn't a likely scenario.
>>70225036
By the same logic that a ceiling would be arbitrary, any methods passed to sue could be just as arbitrary. And that would hardly hold up in a Libertarian society when the damage is longterm and global, not affecting someone's property specifically.
Cutting yourselves into sovereign strips of land because you can't just pass immigration laws is beyond silly.
>>70222031
> to check bad actors who violate the NAP
So to protect from the above you want even worse actor that always violate NAP, namely government.
It is completely illogical.
>>70225378
>m-muh principles
not an argument
what makes you think people in general will respect "libertarian principles"?
because they appeal to you?
you're literally a communist without any humanist perspective
>>70225390
you can kiss 10% of my ass
here's an idea, find a way to make environmentalism profitable
that's the only real solution and if you were "90% on my side" you'd know that already
the free market is all that matters
>>70225140
Please address the point of a lack of environmental protections in a society of total private ownership, as brought up >>70223217 and >>70225001
I feel like that is a good starting point and it has yet to be addressed with anything but "The government is corrupt and evil and worse" which dodges the point.
>>70225589
The suers are doing it arbitrarily,that is why there is a justice department to determine if it is bullshit or not. The ceilling cap by the EPA,is just a totally arbitrary value,that cannot be questioned.
Administration on a local level is more effective,and more responsible than a central goverment. It is plain simple. Our inmigration problem comes from the welfare state,nothing more.
>>70225860
First you need to explain why environmental protections are necessary instead of expecting everyone to accept it as fact like a liberal does. There's nothing wrong with strip mining your own property.
>>70225607
Your argument was retarded,because you put a feudalist society,and compared it to a libertarian one you fucking retard. If a society doesnt follow the principles of an idiology,then that ideology is not the imperative moron. The US in the early XIX century is a good example of what most libertarians want,not a fucking feudalist kingdom.
>>70220955
>they always
Have you ever considered that political movements are not always homogeneous?
>>70226149
>The US in early XIX century
see>>70225493
now kiss the boot, you quasi-commie shit
>>70221148
I'm a pragmatic classical liberal. I'll admit there are problems with the ideology but we seriously have plenty to offer conservatives when it comes to a think tank against the regressive left. If I have to choose sides, i'm choosing the right 9/10.
>>70225573
>Can you give me an objective reason why it's wrong to "destroy" your own property?
In this case the property would be land. Extracting resources from the land in destructive manners is common practice. Land that has been subjected to these destructive means stop functioning in their role in the environment, be it because of depletion from the extracted resource, pollution, erosion, or desertification. The environment as a whole has taken a loss that will no be repaired on a human timescale and impact future generations.
>>70226282
You know communism is collective and libertarianism is individualistic right?
one != many
>>70226282
What? Who talked about abolishing the goverment you retard? Are you seriously this stupid?
>>70225994
>That image
>mfw
>>70226282
Switzerland is in the middle of fucking Europe,and is another libertarian model. You are making a fool out of yourself moron.
>>70225603
>it's another agression and violence are equivocal episode
They should just cancel this season
>>70221397
this
>>70226411
>If your land runs out of resources
It loses all of its value and is now a liability.
Check.
>>70224957
>forcing doctors to work for less money than what they normally charge would be slavery
Nobody is forcing the doctors to work though. Also, less money =/= no money.
>>70225493
Our wealth is from our resources and freedoms literally, not state control
>>70226411
>Land that has been subjected to these destructive means stop functioning in their role in the environment,
What if their role is to be mined? Who are you to say what it's role is? You're perfectly willing to preserve your own land if you want. And I'm sure many people share an opinion with you and will preserve their land. Stripped land will most likely be repurposed, there's nothing wrong with it.
>Waaah I can't afford to pay for quality services so make everyone pay taxes for government-funded (A.K.A. lower-quality) healthcare
>>70226777
Do you want them SHOT??
>>70226974
Meant to reply to>>70226777
>>70226974
Your government still spends tons of money on healthcare despite it being privatised.
>>70226830
Nope. US wealth comes through capitalization during the XIX century. Some places with little resources as rich as fuck because of this,mainly the east coast.
>>70226622
a peculiar case
and it was poor as fuck and their main product was soldiers
later they centralized and grew rich thanks to being Jews
oh, and your PLC "counterargument" is idiotic, I just didn't want to spend time on it
from the perspective of free population (nobles), or 10% of PLC, it was quite close to libertarianism
>>70222081
>Govt. hires the lowest bidder for the job, poor quality materials resulting in a shitty road that is made over budget and late (years of delays)
>Private organizations hire good people, get good materials, make a good road that is made on time and on budget.
>People pay for the roads either way.
t. Guy who has to travel both
>>70227203
How can feudalism be libertarian?
And Switzerland became rich through capitalization, % of GDP wise they have a big manufacturing sector compared to the rest of Europe, and most of their wealth comes from being stable,and respecting property
>>70227191
>and freedoms
The government has always followed the industry you dumb faggot
Every measure of "progress" on the part of the government comes on the coattails of the private sector enabling it, if not almost destroying the problem itself
You're also talking about US wealth during one period of time, which isn't wholly relevant to all of our history
>capitalization
>in and of itself producing wealth
You must be pretending to be retarded. As if capitalization in absence of technological advancement would mean fuck all
Every libertarian i met doesnt have friends.
>>70227490
>How can feudalism be libertarian
because, you moron, from the perspective of nobles it was
from the perspective of whole society it was feudal
that's why I said "close to"
Libertarianism worked for America for some time because of vast empty isolated continent and abundance of resources
>>70227369
Don't forget governments have no capacity whatsoever to rationally calculate and evaluate whether a given road is going to be beneficial to society relative to the resources needed to build it. Contrary to what most laymen and particularly retarded socialist think, government spending is not "free" and the opportunity costs of building a given road might wildly outstrip whatever benefits might be derived from it. That's why we get shit like bridges to nowhere.
>>70227689
The capitalization came through private parts you dumb piece of shit. As it has happened in Hong kong. Capitalization was created by saving and investing,the basic capitalist principles that I am defending.
>>70222031
>wife's son
>>70226974
>Government paying for basic healthcare means more costly, higher quality options will cease to exist.
>>70227975
Then it is not libertarianism,if you dont allow others to have a property. Your example was dumb as fuck is like saying. "The king of France lived like libertarians defended,and he was captured in Pavia,so libertarianism was proven wrong". Total and utter bullshit.
>>70220955
That's why Democrats (and Liberals in Canada) exist. Take the best ideas from extremes, mellow them to make them palatable to the electorate.
>>70228088
Then why did you attack my post? I was saying the wealth in this country wasn't generated from the government
>>70228292
>King of France
that's one person you idiot
this was a sufficiently large group which had all the rights and privileges
I'm just explaining you that you can observe that class and see how libertarianism turns out
from their perspective, and they were landed class with voting rights and other privileges, unrestrained by central government, it was a libertarian society
serfs are not a fucking factor in this example
aristocracy of that type is close to libertarian idea
Polish noble enjoyed more rights than American citizen today
they could even legally for associations and rebel
it was a total failure in the end
>>70228627
I didnt attacked it. I just wanting to point out that wealth comes through capitalization and not through resources.
>>70228674
Again the point is moot,as neither life,liberty and property were respected. You seem to have 0 knowledge of what you are talking about,and are making a fool out of yourself.
>>70228968
Resources includes land and climate and all that
Our agriculture is ridiculous
>>70228200
>What is Canadian healthcare
Leafs have shitty basic healthcare.
>>70224782
No, see, the united states constitution has this thing called a tenth amendment that limits the federal government's rights and powers and reserves it for the states and the people.
>>70228061
This
I travel the East End bridge in Louisville to work every day. This causes delays out the ass.
>>70225994
"morally" (stick with me here) fucking up your own property if it doesn't affect others negatively in a substantial way is fine. But to fuck up your own property is to fuck up the rest of the Earth - a small chunk yes, but if more people do this it becomes a problem.
So you're left with either creating a quota for fucking up property every year or w/e, or you have a law (stick with me) that states you must make environmentally sound decisions when you want to fuck up your property. If everyone cared more about the rest of the world and had the ability to think long-term, we wouldn't need laws that say "don't fuck up the future generations' planet; think and act in a sustainable, cognizant, and wide-reaching way"
Ultimately, if everyone were "better" people, libertarianism would be fantastic (I really hope we reach this reality someday). Since the majority of us aren't like this, laws need to be put in place to keep us on the right track.
>>70229196
Yeah,but capitalization is what makes Hong Kong,Singapore or Switzerland wealthy. Resources help a lot,but a place can become wealthy with few.
>>70229078
>life, liberty and property
they were respected for nobles you poor autistic thing
what would change if they were respected for everyone?
would it end differently?
Switzerland you mentioned was a fucking poor mountain which no one bothered to conquer after Habsburgs because there was nothing there
that's why their main product for centuries was mercenaries
what a great society
also, all your arguments boil down to "if people just acted how I think they should act, it would work great"
every fucking system would work great in that scenario
that's why I said you're quasi-commie
you intentionally ignore human nature to serve your dumb argument
>>70229519
can every state act like Hong Kong or Switzerland? no they can't you dumb idiot
those are peculiar cases which exist under specific circumstances
>>70229484
>If everyone were "Better" people
Communism/Socialism would be a viable option.
But you have people that are like "Huh I can be a bum on welfare"
>>70221953
*gimme dem kicks
>>70229484
Your idea is hinged on the fact that a regulatory committee knows what's better for the earth than the free market. Who decides what is "environmentally sound" and what isn't? Your opinion on whether people are good or not is irrelevant.
>>70229676
actually that's the argument for libertarianism
if everyone was rational and respected core aspects, it would work great
no extreme ideology can work for a long time though
socialism is failure because you can't centralize economy
but you can't just stay aside and watch how society crumbles
under ideal conditions, free market can fix things, no one can deny that
but society doesn't exist in vacuum, and by the time free market does it, severe disturbances and suffering can happen which could destroy system
>>70229676
well if we were all "better" then we wouldn't have those assholes (at least in no minimally significant amount) that are welfare bums.
In that case, really I think a mostly libertarian system would be more viable than communism/socialism (not that you were implying it would be better, just making banter) as the private sector would still be more efficient (they just wouldn't be assholes, which would benefit everyone)
>>70220955
>all libertarians are the same
Kill yourself OP.
>>70229658
Of course they can. Another thing would be expecting the same results retard.
>>70229532
>if people just acted how I think they should act, it would work great"
When did I say this? I just want people to act as they like,if they respect life,liberty and property.
And things change a lot,if rights are applied to only the ellite you dumb fuck.
>>70230090
well, logically and scientifically we can come upon a consensus on what is and isn't good for the environment.
Both sides of the argument have issues, yes:
Does a regulatory committee really know what's best?
v.
Can we trust the private sector (whose chief goal is to accrue profits) to think long-term and not fuck up the environment for later generations?
The "people being good" thing matters because profits and investors have a way to "corrupt" (rosy/romantic/simplistic language, but you get what I mean in essence) long-term and empathetic thinking.
Really, accepting scientific studies on what is best and worst, good and bad, helpful and useless for the environment is as good of a heuristic we'll ever have, and it sure is the best we have now. So we either live by these things or create laws based on them in the much higher likelihood that a lot of people are assholes and won't live the way that's logically best suited for sustainability and well-being.
>>70230318
but that defeats your point you arrogant idiot
>>70230467
how? explain me how does that affect my argument?
serfs were a fucking non-factor politically
>I just want
what you want and what will happen are two different things you autistic retard
you know what's saddest? I'm wasting my time here debating autists who can't see past their ideology and who warp reality to suit their arguments, but in reality you people are a non-factor
you're just autistic outliers and you are totally irrelevant, your own nature makes your ideas impotent
keep crying you bitch
>>70230889
No it doesnt. I was just proving that you can succed with capitalization alone you dumbfuck. And putting the PLCW in a discussion about LIBERTARIANISM makes no fucking sense.
>>70229782
*gimme dem timbs
>libertarians
>sociopaths
One is ideology and the other is an individual state of mind.
citation needed.
>>70231267
>using a system where a group of people lived by something that was quite similar to libertarian ideals makes no fucking sense because I say so
>serfs which were totally a non-factor in political life somehow change the equation, but I can't explain why
k lol
>>70230877
>Can we trust the private sector (whose chief goal is to accrue profits) to think long-term and not fuck up the environment for later generations?
The goal of the private sector is to meet demand. If demand is environmental preservation then that is what will profit.
>>70231749
It wasnt close to libertarianism in any way. Have you ever opened a fucking book ever?
>>70220955
Because once you take the real libertarian redpill (that people are assholes) you realize that the folks in your life who should be looking out for you (governernment) are also assholes, only you've given them authority and consent to be assholes to you and you can never revoke it.
If a libertarian program is shitty, you can voluntarily stop using it. Government pension dragging your paychecks down due to high taxes? You're fucked, boomers need their cheddar. Libertarian pension plan stop making money and you're a millennial with hardly anything in it? Fuck you, boomers.
I agree with you that there are some challenges, but on balance it'd have better outcomes overall because failing ideas WOULD ACTUALLY FAIL AND END instead of continuing on life support forever because important voting demographics demanded we keep them. It's for this reason that there's so many extremists, you can't say "I don't want to pay for this other faggot" without being prepared for people to say the same thing to you.
It's the most objectively moral system out there because a bad actor literally can't force you to do anything.
>>70220955
>I agree with like 90% of what they say, but then they always have to take it too far and step into suicidal extreme territory.
Do you have some examples?
>>70231775
True, but the issues lie in the timing of large-scale demand and the concentration on specific demand. Is there demand for environmental preservation now? Yes. Is much being done? Not so much, no. Sure, you can blame it on the government for being ineffective. But you can also blame the private sector for not seriously/substantially tackling and addressing the demand.
Logically, everyone should be concerned about environmental/world preservation, (and many are thankfully) but unfortunately many, many people are not prescient enough for this, and many others are selfish and just plain assholes (especially when money becomes involved as a factor).
It is (currently) certainly easier and more profitable to fuck up the environment than it is to preserve it. When the private sector operates on accruing profit, it does so to meet demand yes - but it is the demand of the investors and shareholders and such. This is again why I go back to the whole "better" people thing.
Without people actively being "good" (yes, vague, I know, but what I mean is more along the lines of rational, able to think long-term and able to consider others in their thoughts and actions), or being raised to become "good," the demand (and by extension, the companies/corporations/groups of people that do things about demand and develop new technologies or sell things, etc.) for things like environmentally-conscious decisions just won't exist in a meaningful way.
As a result, the lack of meaningful, timely action (meeting current demand, as near-sighted as it may be) would lead to negative effects on the population and the world at large.
That's why it's important to instill "good" values in people and why, for now, laws that protect the environment from profit-seeking and unscrupulous individuals are needed and important.
I agree with you in essence, but realistically, this is why pure libertarianism without even the fewest amount of laws/regulation isn't beneficial in the long-term.
>>70222081
My city hires one particular construction company owned by the mayors brother every year to fix almost every road in the city. Why do they have to be fixed every year? because not only are they built to poor standards but the construction company hires people to actually fuck up the roads I have seen them drive trucks filled with gravel down the road with somebody in the bed shoveling gravel onto the road. the gravel gets driven over by cars and damages the concrete.
The state is terrible at maintaining roads.
>>70231775
>>70233371 (cont'd) (never reached text limit wow)
I would love for the libertarianism you are describing to exist and be how we lived, really I do, but there are shortcomings just due to the fact that people can't think long-term and empathetically about everything (at least in the present; hopefully that changes in the future, and not too distantly in it)
