Hey /pol/, have you ever been excommunicated by a loved one for your beliefs? Since this election began my dad has been becoming more and more irate about "drumf" and his "evil ways". My dad is a hard-line Democrat and mega liberal because his father was a hard-line Democrat local politician, and he has extreme pride in his stance on American politics. When I was little I would listen to what he said and believe it and until I turned about 15 and started interacting with public school pavement apes, then my world views slowly started to change and become increasingly right wing. At first I kept this from him as I knew he would freak out, as I saw him freak out every night while watching Kieth olberman on MSNBC, he would rant and rave about how the Republicans are evil and how they are destroying society. Essentially the Republican party is his own personal version of DA JOOS when something goes wrong in America, he blames Republicans. Anyways, lately hes been creating a divide between us, and it's starting to hurt me. Every night he goes on an hour long rant about Trump to my poor mother and sister, and I've been getting more vocal about my pro-right stance. Last night I told him I believe we can't just let everyone into our country and borders exist for people safety, and that his lax immigration opinions are more dangerous to the Western populace then the terrorists themselves because it allows terrorism to be exercised in mass. And he freaked the fuck out and stormed off only to come back later after I left the kitchen to yell at my mom about how I'm a "bigot" and a "mental midget" and how he's ashamed of what he raised. This hurts because even though my father is a liberal gay babby I still love him because he's my dad and he raised me. What are your stories about liberal family members hating you?
Pic unrelated.
>>70111933
Lol what a cuck
>>70112234
Whom are you referring to leaf? Me or my father?
>>70111933
Be honest with your father dude. Tell him and your mom that's is a literal baby and needs buzzwords and name calling to justify his opinions because he couldnt make an arguement, and also he's a terrible father for not accepting you for who you are and not accepting another's thoughts and opinions that you make for yourself
>>70111933
You should have seen what happened when my grandparents, aunts and uncles tried to sit me down in a family gathering and have that interrogation session with me about why I haven't followed suit with the rest of the family and became Mormon. I'd raise objections to the things they said that they had no response to and they just looked at me smugly and laughed at me like the peer pressure of their disapproval could soothe their sore asses.
...and basically, an entire half of the family won't associate with me anymore.
The last real meaningful communication on the issue came in the mail, when my Grandmother sent me a very accusatory and condescending letter about why I didn't go out of my way to have that side of the family try to brainwash my children.
*sigh*
>>70112660
I know he's a typical liberal baby but he wasn't always like that, he used to be the captain of the football team at a Catholic high school, then he went to art school and became the way he is now. I remember him playing catch with me as a kid and shit so it's hard for me to hate him for what he believes/hoe he reacts.
>>70111933
>MFW when speaking about refugees my dad literally said "look, if you are asking me, Hitler's way were too moderate for my liking"
>>70112675
Now had I known at the time that all they had to do was drop a *hint* or something that they just use the religion as a crutch to be seen as "respectable" in their community I might have seen things differently, but all that experience made me do was take off the fedora and upgrade to a 10 gallon hat.
>>70111933
You have to be 18 to post here, buddy.
Also: remind him that ad hominem isn't a valid argument.
>>70113515
Don't be a fucking fedora, saying that shit IRL doesn't work.
What OP needs to do is simply avoid talking politics until he can move off his home.
Seriously OP, hate to say it but your dad is a massive faggot. If you want to keep your relationship just ignore is shit, that way you don't ruin your relationship nor do your sis and mom get flak by proxy, because your dad is too coward to argue with you.
>>70114025
>>70113967
>Don't be a fucking fedora, saying that shit IRL doesn't work.
Yeah it does.
>dad, you keep saying in ignorant and misinformed, but can you address my arguments instead of calling me names? That doesn't accomplish anything.
>What OP needs to do is simply avoid talking politics until he can move off his home.
There is that I guess. I normally wouldn't give a shit, but I never really cared about politics until I was out on my own so yeah...
>>70111933
Your dad sounds like a cucklord
>>70114223
Dude, when someone is going apeshit emotional, saying:
>urrr actchually that is an ad hom, dad.
Is usually met with yet another barrage of emotional drivel. Most humans don't give a rat's ass about logic. That is why we collectively keep making bad decisions.
I'm not saying this to be a edgy. it is fro m experience i have a socialist mother and no matter how perfectly i make my argumentation, she will just brush them aside in the most childish manner.
Save logic and reasoning to people that show that they are curious and rational, even if misinformed.
By OP description his dad is not a curious or rational person.
>>70113515
>>70113967
I'm 19 and I'm moving out this summer
>>70111933
I'm part of a (LEGAL) immigrant family and this whole election is a ticking time bomb for when I'll have to be honest about my endorsement of Trump.
I could say my parents just believe everything they see on Univision, but the honest truth is that Mexican immigrants don't like people who are tough on immigration. They all know people they personally believe deserves citizenship. I don't know if I can be open in that kind of situation.
>>70114613
That's why you force them to think logically. Tell them to address your point. Continue pressing them. You won't do it in one go, but they'll eventually think about the point instead of jumping to attack you. This is how you redpill normies.
>>70114777
Legal immigrants who went through the process want people to be able to just skip across the border and get citizenship?
Your family has to go back.
>>70114777
Relationships are just as much about knowing what you can say and what you can't.
>>70115092
I'd much rather take a loss for being true to myself than give in and fall victim to the thing that dragged them into the shitter.
>>70114891
If you think you can force someone to think logically you are dead wrong.
There are some people that are rational but hide behind a veneer of emotion, those can be reasoned with, but emotional bullies can't. They are not hardwired to operate at such level.
These isn't BS you can simply dismantle with arguments, it's the way some people's brain is wired.
>>70111933
Just get through it, don't outshine the master is a rule as old as time, just stay on the fence, devils advocate everything, say you are acting this way because nobody ever gave you both sides of the story, they only give there own and you feel that is too limiting so you are now a full blown contrarian for arguments sake and don't have any hard stances. Get a reputation for being this and not his adversary, maybe he will see your side of it if you don't care about changing his opinion just showing another perspective.. if he doesn't like someone being on the fence then he is an authoritarian which is just too limiting for someone like you who has a sponge for a brain and wants to know every perspective.. You should back it up with actually going to he library and reading sociology/philosophy/psychology books but beware that most """discredited""" ones have a bad name. Which might just mean academic progressives don't like it. This is payback for making me read a wall of text.
>>70115234
That is your problem mate, i don't care, i was simply telling OP that in order to maintain his relationship (he loves his dad) then this is the way to go about it.
>>70111933
I suggest you cut ties with your father if he cant tolerate your political views the to hell with him.Not worth keeping these people around.
i cut ties with my mother after she called me a naziswine and called my father asking why i was so racist.All i said was not to let refugees in and pointing to all the rape in Sweden. She was a very liberal cook with bipolar tendencies. I learned recently from my brother she has become a lesbian too. i havent talked with here for 1 year now. I care for that woman as much as i care for a gum under the bottom of my shoe.
>>70115092
I'm poised to just discourage them from voting at all.
They still haven't voted once yet despite being able since Clinton's first term.
>>70115317
If they continue pressing the issue constantly like OP's dad does and you constantly answer their bullshit with logic, they'll eventually try dismantling your argument in private first, then slowly redpill themselves when they discover they can't. But yeah, most people shut down and never bring that shit up in front of you again because "you're a list cause".
>>70115627
Subtle ways are the best ways. If you can't make them your allies at least make sure they stay neutral it is better then to be an aggressive jerk off and risk them becoming your enemies.
>entire family muslim-hating nigger-hating zionists
lel
>>70115759
You clearly haven't tried to red pill emotional pandas if you think its that straight forward.
They might even begin to agree with you, mostly for the sake of getting you to shut up, once they are among their peers the reset back to their original opinions.
Listening to your optimism one would think you can dissuade a a jihadi by sitting at a table and talking over a cuppa.
Emotional people only come to sudden realizations after traumatic events resulting of their poor decisions.
>>70115881
No, it's not better.
It's straight up cuckoldry and downright shameful.
This shit is literally how the ancients managed to convince a bunch of goat herders to take a dull knife and hack off part of their cock.
>>70116126
Maybe you're just shit at redpilling, I don't know. Everyone who I've told to address my point instead of ad hominem have shut down at first, but later on agreed that I have a point and then either agreed with it or disagreed with it based on their opinion, not emotions.
>>70111933
All my direct family are right wing. Parents, sister, grandparents. Might have something to do with every single one of them having come into close contact with immigrants, and their shitstain ways. When it comes to non-immigrant matters, I'm probably the biggest leftie in the house.
And my grandparents, well, they had to sneak across the Iron Curtain to escape the commies. No leftism for them.
>>70111933
My mother effectively worked my father to death and the married a jew with tons of money. How do you think I feel?
>>70116671
Idk. I like my mom.
>>70114891
This is an extremely autistic 4chan mentality and it won't do anything but make my dad more angry. It's cool that you're proud of your aspergers but saying ad hominem doesn't work irl.
>>70116438
Weed is gay
>>70117008
Stay cucked then, faggot. Make your dad not act retarded or enjoy a retarded dad.
>>70116397
Nigger, you have just never encountered true leftist doublethink.
Let me give you an example: I was talking to a social democrat, and for no reason he mentions the PVV (Wilders' Freedom Party) has the most meaningless name in Dutch politics. He's being an exceptionalist, so I point out it's true for most parties, because that's how politics work, with the exception of some of the more descriptive party names. So we run down the list, and here I have to point out that the party that he votes for LITERALLY has the same name, except with "labour" instead of "freedom". He, of course, says that it's a great name. I point out what I just did. He resists. I say they both refer to an abstract concept associated with their political stripe.
Eventually he acquiesced, reluctantly. And this was about a single word. Let alone how they act about the core concepts of their ideology.
Some people can't be talked over. Only those who already have some doubt, deep down, can be made to see things in a different light. But the ones who have internalized left wing dogma have an explanation ready for everything. They want to believe, so they do.
>>70117008
>saying ad hominem doesn't work irl
But thoroughly explaining the nuances of the problem and *why* it's not an argument will have them on the backpedal, and that's just what you have to do.
There's no sense in "loving" someone who won't return the gesture if you don't meet their demands. You're just pouring your emotional energy into a black hole.
>>70117168
This is a great example of what happens when you allow 4chan to run your brain. I didn't ask you for advice I was just sharing a story and asking others to share Thiers, notice how I didn't start the thread by saying "hey I need Reddit users with aspergers to tell me how to " red pill" "Normies" in a paragraph that uses at least 6 cool 4chan buzzwords such as "cuck" and "ad hom". You mentally damaged Mongoloid.
>>70117397
Most people (liberals, and the retarded alt-right gay mafia) don't listen to you though, they just blurt out their hard coded political stance in as many buzzwords as possible.
>>70111933
It's part of growing up to stop idolizing our parents. Usually that happens during puberty; you apparently are taking a bit longer.
Gratitude for upbringing is one thing but how can you respect someone who calls you a mental midget or is ashamed of you just because you're not a tool who parrots what he says? He's an idiot and undeserving of any respect.
You don't have to convert him or even make politics a big deal but as father and son you must be able to come together on "I disagree with you and I have good reasons for it".
If you can't manage to do this in a conversation, write out a letter. Tell the rest of your family too, "We all love him, but we don't have to agree with him and I personally think he is wrong".
I have arguments with my family and my girlfriend about this stuff too, but no one resorts to name-calling or shaming or storming off.
Blood is thicker than water but even blood can be full of disease.
>>70117667
>If you're going to let this get in the way of our ability to work together as a family then are you sure I'm the bigot?
Say it right in front of your mother. Done.
>>70117854
My mom is on my side though.
>>70117890
That's exactly the point.
He'll have to lower his power level or risk being the asshole.
>>70117467
I never told you say the words "ad hominem" I was saying to tell him to address your point.
>son, ur a lost cause and very triggering!
>but dad that doesn't explain why, what did I say is ignorant and misinformed?
It's pretty simple to make normies actually think instead of jumping to emotions right away. First time you do it he'll probably "can't even right now", but then he'll go and try and to disassemble your argument in his study while drinking himself to death for being so triggered, and then cone to the realization that he can't honestly attack your argument. Then he is free to form an opinion after thinking about it, and I'm sure you'll respect that opinion as he respects yours.
Or not, whatever man. Sorry for trying to help uncuck your pops and improve your family relationships, since apparently he attacks your mom and sister since he's so insecure about his stances.
>>70116164
>Misusing cuckold term to be a cool edgelord.
Sorry anon, you lost me there.
>>70117721
I don't really idolize my dad, I just don't want to have a hateful relationship with the dude who raised me, but I guess you're right. He's a big fucking baby and I realized that when my gf pointed out how he treats my mother in a very man childish fashion, he hates for her to leave house alone and even to talk to her friends. He just has a lot of mental issues that I think he's unaware of, and at this point they're too big to correct.
>>70117997
Oh he doesn't care about that, my mom will tell him to stop being an asshole and he'll throw a fit and scream at her and then sleep at his office for a week.
>>70111933
I hate to say it dude but your dad is a huge fucking faggot
Not because of his political views, but because of his views on you
If his own son is a "mental midget" (which is not only a lame insult, but would get him torn apart by the modern left for being something-ist most likely) what does that make him?
Honestly dude I feel you about loving him, but it doesn't change that he will only drag you down. He's a shit parent and probably a worse human being.
I mean come on, he watched Keith fucking Olbermann EVERY NIGHT.
>>70116397
Then you haven't had contact with people who are really set in their ways.
I admire your perseverance, but reality isn't like that. And trying to hold people to a standard only you follow is like trying to have a chess match with someone that insists on playing by checkers rules, you never win, you just waste time.
>>70118017
He's a very insecure retard, this will never change. Also it's fine to give advice dude just don't use so many fucking memes when you're doing it. I wish people on this website could just talk like normal humans instead of aspies.
ITT: Proof /pol/ lives with their parents in the basement
>>70118453
don´t know this olbermann.
a current year guy?
>>70118330
Well then your dad is pretty much abusive and it's your duty to fix your family so your mother isn't ashamed of herself and so your siblings don't grow up with a fucked up role model - but hey, you didn't ask for advice.
>>70118207
>You have to just give them their ground because there's no sense in trying to reason with them.
If you can't reason with people and constantly find yourself making compromises just to cling to psychic vampires then that might explain why you're so lost.
>>70118663
No he was a liberal pundit that was always angry about how "evil" the Republican party is. He is the liberal equivalent of Glenn Beck.
>>70118635
I'm 19 dude.
>>70118400
> he'll throw a fit and scream at her and then sleep at his office for a week
So let him do this, over and over until he realizes that throwing tantrums is childish.
>>70111933
He act like a teenager.
Not even Bernie himself would be so retard.
>>70118775
My problem with that dude wasn't that he gave advice, it was the way he gave advice, in the most standoffish edgy 4chan-brain way possible. You're advice was good and you wrote it like a normal person. I will try to correct the situation bit my mom already thinks he's a retard and my little sister doesn't care about politics.
>>70118608
I told you to remind him ad hominem isn't a real argument. If you can't translate logical fallacies into real world arguments, maybe you're the aspie here, m8.
>>70118786
Lost? err no.
Where did i say it was problem for me?
I'm too fucking old and busy to waste my latin with idiots and menchildren.
I made a decision in my life to only engage people that show to be curious and inquisitive, even if just misguided and misinformed.
I don't care to "evangelize" the masses, i want the best people to be made better.
So far i had great results. No regrets
I think you should sit down with your father, and have a discussion. Tell him that you'd like to NEVER TALK ABOUT POLITICS AGAIN WITH HIM, and that it's ruining your relationship with him, basically tell him the truth, and hopefully he'll stop talking about it in front of you
>>70119163
K... KEEP ME POSTED
>>70119090
If I can recall you said "stay cucked faggot" or something alone those lines most likely while masturbating on your mosin nagant and mechanical keyboard and browsing your anime/epic Pepe trump folder because your life revolves around 4chan memes.
>>70118968
I know what you mean, no hard feelings. Just saying that a father that screams fucks up his children A LOT, part of it unconsciously. And you don't really want your sister to grow up with daddy issues and shit like that.
So yeah, if you just want a better relationship - don't even bother arguing, just leave it at "We can both have different views with good arguments but we should stick together as a family". He can't really argue with that or at least it shouldn't set him off like crazy.
>>70119529
You're right for once Germany. Thanks for talking to me man.
When I was a kid, my dad said that Hitler's only mistake was he didn't burn enough Jews.
Of course, as a kid, I didn't know what he meant by this.
Thus I think we pretty much agree on many things nowadays.
So no, with my family (parents), I don't have any issues. My father fucking hates Jews, and my mom while she likes kikes (because her own family got persecuted in a commie country), she fucking hates mudslimes and niggers. She just wants me to be careful because she doesn't want me to be in trouble.
The only thing that I don't agree with my dad, he's anti-Christian,and not even an atheist, he's some sort of mix of buddhist with some deist shit, and he still thinks that Catholics are behind some evil scheme to fuck things up. Truth to be said, it's quite the opposite. Jews and leftists are destroying Christianism. Then my mom joins in and takes my side.
At least he wants to gas the kikes, race war now.
>>70119703
Careful what you say Anon, you never know when...
IF THE BEADY EYED ANGLO IS LISTENING.
>>70119955
Stop making me jealous France.
>>70120123
I'm not Aryan so he can't hurt me
>>70119451
I gave you the advice, you sperged out because I assume you couldn't translate the logical fallacy into real world sentence structure, I then told you (admittedly in a 4chan way, on 4chan) that I don't really give a fuck what you do, then we got into this argument.
But whatever man, there's no need to keep insulting each other, we've said what we want to say, we're just shitposting each other at this point. I hope you get your dad to think logically somehow. He kinda seems like an SJW tumblrite and no one wants that for a parent. I'm sure he's a good guy, just seems to put that shit at the forefront of his identity instead of a facet of it. Might be saying that because I'm from a more reserved state/town where openly expressing your political views is seen as kind of taboo. I remember I posted my feelings about the Second Amendment on normiebook and felt a pang of regret for like a week. Pretty sure I lost some "friends" for that post. I've since stopped caring though. Hopefully more "friends" unfriend me.
>>70120250
think again...
>>70111933
Parents are far right wing. They fucking hate Hollande, the left and EU. They hate islam, they want no rapefugees. My dad is starting to dislike the nose.
Even my classmates agree with right wing stance. Only some of them are left wing.
>>70120342
I'm mostly German but I have brown hair and green/hazel eyes so I'm not Aryan.
>>70120538
One drop rule.
>>70120319
I sperged out because I'm tired of memes and want this place to be a nice website to post on and not a website full of retarded children saying cuck and top kek. Anyways he's a good guy and has always been supportive of everything I do, but he is a sperg who cannot stomach people having different opinions and that's the thing that makes him most unbearable. Anyways thanks for trying to help me and not being a retard bro.
>>70120458
Do you live in the French countryside?
>>70120756
Yes.
FN hit 56% last election.
No one wants immigrants.
