Instead of attacking militar facilities the USA decided to bomb large populated areas to press the Japoneses to give up the war.
So sending Jews to gas chamber is crime and throwing nuclear bomb in civilians homes is not, where is the logic?
>>70068875
>>70068875
Is public education that bad there?
>>70068875
Vae Victis.
The bombs were pretty expensive to manufacture. American taxpayers payed a hefty sum to make them.
>>70068875
The point of war is to do enough damage to make your enemy give up so nuking civilians to guilt your enemy into giving up is a pretty good idea.
>>70068979
>t. Drumpf supporter
>>70068875
lets just consider the two nukes as payment for all the terrible shit the nips did.
We're even, they know it and we know it, that's why you never see Japs complain about the nukes
>>70068875
Blow it out your ass
Mire people died in dresden than in hiroshima and nagasaki combined.
>>70068989
my negro
The nukes were an act of aggression. If I was in the Japanese government I would have tried my hardest to get the nation to declare war on The US.
>>70069041
Hilary's cock sucker.
That being said, try to be more substantive next time.
>>70068875
Anyone who says the nukes were bad has no idea what they're talking aboutz an invasion would've killed 10-20x as many people and placed half of Japan under Soviet control.
Victors tend to set the rules. Might makes right.
Reminder that we also firebombed japan constantly. We firebombed cities with houses packed close together made of paper and wood.
Reminder that firebombing a hardened structure like a concrete military structure is only mildly effective. Its very effective on houses though. Houses with civilians.
>>70068875
>So sending Jews to gas chamber is crime and throwing nuclear bomb in civilians homes is not, where is the logic?
Winners of wars dont commit war crimes.
You would know this if your shit monkey nation ever had a war beyond tribal skirmishes.
>>70068875
Japan received the payment of becoming a world economic leader.
>>70068875
I feel bad desu, the US should have teamed up with japan and germany
>>70069253
lol
>>70069266
Japan would have surrendered in that case.
No Idea why a brmonkey is boohooing over Japan. Brazilians are hated here and be halfs are viewed as disgusting.
>>70068875
As odd as it sounds, dropping the bombs was actually the most humane thing to do. Yeah they killed maybe 100k people. But Millions would've been killed trying to invade mainland Japan. Dropping the bomb actually saved lives, that's why it's not a war crime.
not to mention, all the countries were carpet bombing each other and killing civilians.
sweetheart, OP?
Crime and War are not the same thing.
Crimes are where you do something that is illegal according to written laws. Countries have laws, continents don't.
War is where you make such havoc and destruction on your enemy that they surrender.
though there can be war crimes, but that's according to treaties between countries. treaties aren't laws, they are like gentlemen's agreements between countries.
I don't remember the Americans wanting to be involved until something happened in Hawaii...
>>70068875
Dude .. man.. it's like 2016 broh.. We both have super tranny infested countries bro. Why don't we like.. cross swords and forget about the past we were never involved in bro.
>>70068875
The way I see it, the nukes were a reality check for a militaristic Japan that had been attacking China and the south Pacific for hundreds of years.
>>70068875
Try harder hue hue nigger
>>70068875
>war crimes
Hahaha, what?
Yeah but the Japanese were literally on the Nazis' team.
>>70069266
Japan was starving for resources. The main islands were all surrounded and blockaded with constant bombing runs on cities. They were close to being broken logistically.
The nuclear bombings were tactical choice in that it kept Russia out of Japan by ending the war swiftly. The plan was to not have a Germany with Japan pieced out to the Russians as the non aggression pact between Russia and Japan was soon to end towards the end of the war.
It was also a show of force. One bomb should been enough to convince Japan to surrender, but two bombs were dropped. This told the world that our nukes were not a one off. We showed that we can make more and we can make them bigger too. The Cold War began the day the first nuke was dropped.
>>70068875
desu we should of dropped 200 nukes on them and repopulated japan with australian seed making australia 2.0
>>70068875
Fuck off you leftshit monkey. Killing 100k was more humane then killing millions of civilians and soldiers alike on a land invasion.
You know full well that we hate retarded people like you here as much as like this manlet >>70069516 do.
>>70069848
>"...but they refuse to take responsibility for the wanton murder, rape and cruelty..."
I accidentally read "wanton" as "wonton."
>>70069516
You should be thankful to Brazil sd we have the largest community from Japonese outside Japan.
They are now 1,5 million of runners that came here as war refugies.
So if Japan is beaten again from another nation don't run back to us!
>>70068875
Welcome to america
>>70068875
>he believes in the gas chambers myth
It's well known that American and Jewish people used exploited the deaths of a few hundred thousand war prisoners as a genocide to justify the civilian bombings on Japanese and German women/children.
Germany wasn't even responsible for the deaths as damaged infrastructure from Russians and Americans made it impossible to transport food and medical supplies to the camps.
>>70068875
maybe you half niggers should worry about making your country safe for the Olympics, eh.
You could argue that all the murdered news went through terrible pain and fear. All the Japs that died I'm sure didn't feel a damn thing.
>>70068971
kek
>>70068875
>So sending Jews to gas chamber is crime and throwing nuclear bomb in civilians homes is not, where is the logic?
War crimes are only applied to losers.
>>70068875
Look, we've been over this for the umpteenth time since it fucking happened, there was just no way to get the Japs to peacefully surrender to us because their bullshit bushido samurai warrior spirit would have costed the lives of the entire country. Instead, we dropped a massive fucking bomb on them, and the masses of Japan woke up to how royally fucked they were if they kept their shit up.
>>70068979
> we a good boi we dindu nuffin
american = nigger
>>70068875
Can the Katana cut a nuke
>>70068875
>Instead of attacking militar facilities
Hiroshima was an army hq
>>70068875
Arguments about whether or not the bomb was necessary aside, Hiroshima was a military target. It housed the headquarters of the 2nd General Army and about 40,000 Japanese troops 20,000 of which were casualties. Nagasaki was a significant industrial target and seaport.
>>70069848
The guy in the second picture was actually Australian IIRC.
>>70068875
Because these no such thing as warcrimes.
>>70071068
This Japan will never surrender meme has to stop.
Japan was fucked for resources and we were hammering them with non nuclear bombing destroying most of their industrialized cities.
The nukes were a way to keep out Russia and also set the United States as the nuclear seat of power in the world.
>>70071138
How is this a dindu nuffin? No one denies Hiroshima happened, you're thinking of >>70070554
>>70068875
Total war dipshit when a country's entire means of production is for the production of war goods and supplies then everything is fair game.
>>70068875
Fuck off Brazil.
The moral of the story is don't bring kamikaze to a nuke fight.
>>70070151
>they didn't respond after 1 bomb
>you think that they cared about logistics, they just strapped bombs to kids and families for when U.S. patrols found them
>ordered women to commit suicide by throwing themselves off cliffs with their kids
>made marines out to be savage memeboys who would just rape and kill them
>accounts by several children of the time who were found by U.S. patrols says otherwise
go away, slant eyes
>>70069488
Yes, after millions of people died in the bloodiest invasion in human history. And honestly even then they would've fought on. Those Japs were glorious machines of slaughter back then, unlike the pussies they became.
>>70071068
>a massive fucking bomb on them
It wasn't the most massive in terms of people killed or city area destroyed. Japan didn't care that one or two more cities were destroyed when they already had well over 60 cities already on that list. To them the bombing was just that--another bombing like the many before it.
That "the bomb won the war" is an incredibly convenient, for both the US and Japan, pretty bow-tie that neatly wraps up all the intricacies that there were. Ironically that's also why it's such a huge focus with these ethical debates; it's the posterboy of the war and that's all anyone will bother to look at.
>>70071554
No, the meme that they wanted to surrender but weren't allowed to has to stop. They wanted a negotiated peace, not a surrender. It wasn't even their entire government, it was a group of diplomats essentially acting on their own.
>>70071829
After the war Japan gave up of having a army and became big fan of American Baseball and Dineyland.
>>70071778
Actually they did respond after 1 bomb, the message just took too long to get there. The second bomb, from a surrender standpoint, was mostly unnecessary.
That said, once you go for one you might as well go for two. It was a necessary 'evil' to drive home the point that there was no way out but complete and utter surrender and capitulation to American occupation.
And hey, it worked. Japan's post-war period was incredibly successful with very very little resistance. Undoubtedly Japan would be worse off if we hadn't nuked them.
>>70072259
They gave up because their honor was completely shoved up their ass. Japan got humiliated nationally. Like, entirely.
They literally got cucked by the Big American Cocks. LITERALLY.
And nobody says anything about the Dresden firebombings.
>>70069816
Unfortunately they fucked with us. I loved that they were dicking China.
>>70070296
>>70070403
hey bros, really, we know how this happend. USA will never pay for it, japan will never build a EVA to fight USA. lets just chill and let the justice be served when china rise.
>>70068875
protip: only the losers pay for warcrimes.
>>70072282
They would, probably because Ivan would've occupied them and they would've ended up like an island East Germany.
>>70069013
Fuckin underrated post.
>>70070760
>eh
Canada with US proxy
>>70070403
They won't lul
Maybe the Japanese shouldn't have built factories and military bases in their cities.
>>70071138
Holy shit man kill yourself
>>70072549
uheuheueheuhe . We got one ! im printing this shit !
>>70072365
>>70070267
Can aussies make anime?
>>70072366
25,000 lives are only a fifth of the 129,000 that died in Kawasaki and Nissan.
>>70068875
hey Op are you a japanese descendent? you know that the native japanese think your blood is tainted dont you ? just forget about japan bro. you are brazilian. just fuck a nigger girl and help terra brazilis breed the perfect master race.
>>70068875
You're welcome to come do something about it....
Japs did worse anyways
Bataan Death March anyone?
Medical experiments on prisoners anyone?
Working slaves to death anyone?
A land invasion would have led to vastly more death and destruction, the Japs got off easy.
>>70068875
god weebs are cancer
>>70072282
>Actually they did respond after 1 bomb, the message just took too long to get there
Their response was that it wasn't important. It wasn't significantly different from any of the other bombings that took place before. They didn't know the details of the bomb until after they had already surrendered, so from that standpoint that the bomb was a nuke was irrelevant.
>>70072859
and you think thats cool? nuking other people ? shame on you billy.
>>70068875
The only crime in war is losing
>Firebomb all of Japan killing hundred of thousands.
>Try a new trick one time.
>Kill the same as a normal raid with only one plane with one bomb
Why the fuck do people take those bombs out of context? It wasn't like people weren't burning to death in equal numbers all the time all over Japan. It wouldn't have been rainbows and sunshine in Hiroshima and Nagasaki without the atomic bombs.
>>70073205
>>70068875
3rd one was going to be Tokyo. Japan got off easy.
Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were major military production and coordination centers, not civilian cities, plus we warned them beforehand and even dropped pamphlets on the cities telling them to evacuate before they are destroyed
>>70073131
Alright, I'll attempt to address this question as best as I can. I'd like to do so covering a wider scope, such as including the unwillingness of the Japanese to surrender even before the use of nuclear weapons, when firebombing had already devastated most urban areas and Japan lost every engagement since Midway in 1942. I already know this is going to become a huge wall of text because I have always held a great interest in the Pacific theater, something made personal by my grandfather's own experience in the Navy.
I would first like to point out that your question is inherently controversial, as the exact motives behind the use of the nuclear bombs and whether or not it was necessary to bring about a Japanese surrender have been hotly debated. I'll try to explain and contextualize the issue as much as possible without being too subjective. I'll start by explaining the demand for unconditional surrender, how this was received by Japanese culture and leadership, and a timeline of what happened. Finally, I'll try to invoke some historiography to show the ongoing debates in the field, while keeping it as limited as possible as to not spiral out of control. Feel free to skip around if you're already familiar with a section.
>>70073667
The first atomic bomb, Little Boy, was dropped on Hiroshima August 6, 1945. The second, Fat Man, was dropped on Nagasaki three days later. The Japanese government had, since the months preceding, been very divided on the issue of surrender. Even though a growing segment wished to end the war, a key sticking point was the Allied demand for the unconditional surrender of all Axis powers. This doctrine, established by Roosevelt at the 1943 Casablanca conference, sought to tear out all the militant elements within the governments and societies of the Axis nations.
>>70073704
Unconditional surrender was not particularly popular among some Allied leaders, especially Churchill and several notable American generals such as Eisenhower. It was heavily debated throughout the conflict, and still remains one of the most controversial policies of the war. Steven Casey in Cautious Crusade has a whole chapter dedicated to the politics of unconditional surrender, and notes that historians have long debated over FDR's motives and the effects. Generally, it's believed that his fear was that if militant entities and institutions were allowed to remain postwar, future conflict would be inevitable, invoking the memory of the 1918 armistice with Germany. FDR himself explained, "unconditional surrender means not the destruction of the German populace, nor the Italian or Japanese populace, but does mean the destruction of a philosophy in Germany, Italy, and Japan which is based on the conquest and subjugation of other people." (Casey, 118). The Allies would avoid any uncertainty, decisively and completely winning the war, or it would keep fighting. It has been asserted that the move was also to keep Stalin from attaining any negotiated peace during a time when the US had yet to open a second front and casualties on the Eastern front were extreme (the announcement had taken place merely a few days after the conclusion of the Battle of Stalingrad). Truman, taking office in April 1945, believed that to go back on the demand of unconditional surrender would be a sign of weakness both to the American people and to the Japanese government, providing fuel for those who wished to continue the war. Critics believe unconditional surrender was a significant boost to Axis propaganda, leading them to fight more fanatically, and lengthened the duration of the war both in the European and Pacific theaters. Upon hearing of it, Nazi propaganda minister Goebbels exclaimed, "I should never have been able to think up so rousing a slogan."
>>70073726
The means for which this surrender was to be achieved was total war - the complete mobilization of a nation's resources, including the conversion of its industry and drafting of citizens. The intention is not to just destroy the enemy military forces, but also to destroy their ability to make war. This leads to an incredibly blurred line between combatants and civilians. For instance, in order to destroy Japan's ability to make war, factories in densely populated urban centers were targeted. By extension, civilians in industrial areas could themselves even be viewed as "legitimate" targets. By the end of the war, cities were being routinely bombed into submission in an effort to break the will of the government and people to fight.
>>70073757
The notion of unconditional surrender is a central aspect of understanding why Japan remained undeterred amid extensive bombing campaigns, and to a lesser extent, why Germany fought until the fall of Berlin. However, also key to this understanding is contemporary Japanese honor culture.
Even today, Japanese culture is often referred to as a shame society. This essentially reflects on the idea of honor as a societal control. Particular to Japan is the concept of the Bushido, referred to as the way of the samurai or warrior. At its militant extreme, it impressed the duty of the Japanese to die for the nation, and turned war into an almost religious principle. Indeed, the Emperor was considered to be the leader of the Shinto religion, and a direct descendant of a Shinto deity. Propaganda also made the United States appear to be a nation of barbarians, and laughable accusations became a commonly held perception. This would lead to the tenacity with which Japanese soldiers fought, often to the death, and actions such as kamikaze attacks and mass suicides. Allied casualties were extremely high compared to Europe, and Japanese garrisons rarely accepted surrender. Officers, particularly duty-bound by these notions, would be more likely to commit suicide than surrender.
>>70073776
As the Japanese became notorious for fighting even when severely wounded, using a variety of surprise tactics, Marines also began to adopt a no-prisoners stance. According to Wikipedia, out of 22,060 defenders on Iwo Jima, 21,844 were killed and 216 taken prisoner. Fanaticism was not limited to soldiers: after the invasion of Saipan, several hundred civilians jumped off a cliff to their death rather than be captured. In Goldberg's D-Day in the Pacific, first-hand accounts are given: "We had an LST in the water asking them not to jump. There were a lot of women and kids. They were Japanese nationals stationed on Saipan and they just committed suicide. They would throw the kids, then the wife would jump and then he would jump."
>>70073776
Okay, so I've already touched on this, but it's worth providing an overview of events in the Pacific Theater, if only to outline how utterly screwed Japan was, how savagely they were bombed, yet how ferociously they fought and refused unconditional surrender. Japan began its expansion in 1931 with the invasion of Manchuria, followed by the invasion of China in 1937. The Japanese considered the Chinese inferior, and as historical enemies, they perpetrated such acts as the Nanking Massacre in which some 300,000 people were killed in the Chinese capital city. Other warcrimes include the creation of the secret Unit 731, which conducted thousands of human experiments.
These acts caused tensions with the US to grow significantly, and turn American public opinion. The US as well as other Western nations began supplying China, while the US cut oil exports to Japan. Japan saw war as an inevitability and struck first at Pearl Harbor, also attacking other territories such as Wake Island and the Philippines. However, after the US won a decisive victory at the Battle of Midway June 6 1942 (a victory that historians and military strategists are still amazed was achieved), Japan never won another significant battle or engagement. It was essentially the Stalingrad of the Pacific, and Japan's empire began to crumble. According to Wikipedia, it peaked at 7.4 million sq km, larger than the height of Nazi Germany and fascist Italy (or the Roman Empire, for that matter). For comparison, the land area of Japan today is just 364,485 sq km, at 5% or 1/20th of its peak size.
>>70073815
As US forces island-hopped their way to the home islands, it embarked on a bombing campaign that caused such destruction and loss of life, it actually makes the nuclear bombings pale in comparison. That is quite a bold statement. But, in a single night, some 100,000 civilians were burned alive in Tokyo as a result of massive firebombing raid. This was some 20,000-40,000 more deaths than from the atomic bombing of Nagasaki. Japanese cities were largely wooden, and the devastation that incendiary bombs caused to Japanese cities is indescribable. Anyone interested in geopolitics during the Cold War should watch the documentary Fog of War, an interview of former SecDef Robert McNamara, but it also has an incredibly powerful section about the bombing of Japan that everyone curious about the Pacific Theater should watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmJDj-oLYyM
>>70073839
With the invasions of Iwo Jima and Okinawa, considered home islands, and the continued bombings of Japanese cities, the desire to surrender became increasingly pervasive in Japanese leadership. However, if they were to do so, they demanded to do so on their own terms. They believed that if they could hold out longer, or even more, lure American forces to invade the home islands in a costly fight, they could negotiate a better settlement. One of the key sticking points was the Empire's ability to retain its power structure, including the position of Emperor.
>>70073839
On the other hand, the United States was already looking to the postwar period, with its eyes on the USSR. Though there had been several border disputes and scuffles between the USSR and Japan, they had remained at peace. It was well known that this wouldn't last, and the original postwar settlement would leave Japan divided in the same way Germany and Korea were. In total, the US essentially had three options: invade, blockade, or bomb. Operation Downfall, the proposed invasion, would have been the largest and deadliest operation of the entire war. The geography of the islands meant few landing sites would be suitable - which the Japanese knew. Women and children were taught how to use bamboo spears for a last line of defense (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/fl20071208a1.html). In response, the US began stockpiling chemical weapons for use in urban areas ahead of invasion - weapons which were thankfully never needed or deployed. It's commonly pointed out that so many Purple Heart medals for combat injuries were made in preparation, that even to this day after every conflict since, the US has yet to produce more. The option of blockading was considered preferable to many, as it would essentially starve all of Japan without risking US lives. However, it still would not be a certain way to induce surrender, and would have taken months if not longer even if it did succeed. During this period, the Soviets would be mounting their own offensives and gaining influence in the Pacific. While the US engaged both in blockades and firebombing, it found itself no closer to gaining unconditional surrender. So, the nuclear bomb, a creation of the Manhattan Project begun in 1942, was decided upon.
>>70073667
I ain't asking no questions here. Stop your spam.
>>70073891
On August 6th, at 8:15 local time, Little Boy was dropped over Hiroshima. From Hasegawa's Racing the Enemy - Stalin, Truman, and the Surrender of Japan, pg 179-180: "Little Boy exploded 1,900 feet above the courtyard of Shima Hospital, 550ft off its target...with a yield equivalent to 12,500 tons of TNT. The temperature at ground zero reached 5,400F, immediately creating a fireball within half a mile, roasting people 'to bundles of smoking black char in a fraction of a second as their internal organs boiled away.' ...Of 76,000 buildings in Hiroshima, 70,000 were destroyed. Fire broke out all over the city...people walked aimlessly in eerie silence, many black with burns, the skin peeling from their bodies...thousands of dead bodies floated in the river. Then the black rain fell, soaking everyone with radiation...by the end of 1945, 140,000 had perished."
>>70073914
In the months leading up to the bombing of Hiroshima on August 6, Japanese leadership had become increasingly divided, though few would publicly speak about their misgivings. In May, Japan's supreme council, known as the Big Six, voted 5-1 in favor of "the extinction of Japan to any taint of compromise." (Frank's Downfall: The end of the Imperial Japanese Empire, 94). After the loss of Okinawa, Emperor Hirohito's faith had been shaken. He assembled his council and declared, "I desire that concrete plans to end the war, unhampered by existing policy, be speedily studied and that efforts made to implement them." However, though this illustrated a movement towards the acceptance of a surrender, the council failed to reach any agreement. (Asada's Culture Shock and Japanese-American Relations, 192-193) In July, the Prime Minister rejected the Potsdam Declaration, which concluded with the line, "We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction."
The areas bombed were industrial and trading center you autist.
>>70073914
Hasegawa notes that the use of the bomb was the best possible outcome to Truman, solving the problem of unconditional surrender, invasion, and Soviet interference. For the Japanese, news of the bomb led to complete disarray. Asada states that many in the army and Japan's R&D board denied that an atomic bomb had been used, or even that it was possible that one could have been developed so soon. Information from Hiroshima was limited, as the infrastructure had already been significantly damaged even before the 6th. However, both Asada and Hasegawa note that by that evening, and certainly by the following day, little doubt remained. Asada argues that acceptance of American technological superiority helped the army "save face" and "smoothed their acceptance of surrender" - a minister tried to persuade the military by pleading, "if we say we lost a scientific war, the people will understand"
>>70068875
>war crimes
>war
>crimes
The only crime is losing.
>>70073930
On August 9th, the USSR declared war on Japan and Soviet armor poured into Manchuria. Coupled with the use of the atomic bomb, this utterly crippled the hope of continuing the war effort. Though Japanese forces mounted a strong defense, they were quickly pushed back. Yet, the supreme council still held on to hope that it could negotiate with the Soviets, refusing to officially declare war. Though the Prime Minister and other civilian leaders now openly declared that Japan should surrender, military leaders wished to continue the fight. Even after the bombing of Nagasaki on August 9th, the supreme council still tried to push for maintaining the position of Emperor, and there was a 3-3 split for three other conditions: war criminal trials would be conducted by the Japanese, self-disarmament, and that occupation (particularly of Tokyo) should be avoided or limited wherever possible. (Hasegawa 204, Frank 291). The short span of time between bombings as well as Allied threats were made to give the impression that the US already had a stockpile of the weapons when in actuality it only had the two. A third would have come "sometime after August 19, and then the fourth bomb in the beginning of September," (Hasegawa 298). It was only until the morning of the 10th that the Foreign Ministry sent telegrams saying it would accept the Potsdam Declaration and unconditional surrender after Hirohito himself demanded the war's end. Even then, there was an attempted coup by a segment of the military leadership, which invaded the imperial palace and nearly killed the Prime Minister, as well as other senior officials. On August 15, the emperor officially announced the surrender worldwide. Many pockets of Japanese soldiers still continued to fight, and many military officers chose suicide over surrender. By 1947, a new constitution was written, and while the emperor was maintained as ceremonial figurehead, the Empire of Japan was formally dissolved.
>>70068875
"There are voices which assert that the bomb should never have been used at all. I cannot associate myself with such ideas. […] I am surprised that very worthy people—but people who in most cases had no intention of proceeding to the Japanese front themselves—should adopt the position that rather than throw this bomb, we should have sacrificed a million American and a quarter of a million British lives." -Winston Churchill
>SEWAGE
>IN THE
>TREATMENT PLANT
>>70073984
Whether it was the use of nuclear weapons or Soviet invasion that more forcefully led to surrender has been hotly debated between historians. Hasegawa places greater emphasis on the Soviet invasion, suggesting that Japan would likely have stood steadfast under multiple atomic bombings as it had done in the face of firebombing. Asada directly references and disputes his account, claiming that nuclear weapons and the threat they posed to the homeland reflected a much more "direct" impetus to end the war rather than the invasion of Manchuria, and offered an easier way out for the leadership. Further, they came as a complete surprise to Japanese leadership, whereas eventual conflict with the USSR was expected. Frank's account, and most other anti-revisionist historians support this thesis.
>>70068971
KEK
>>70074008
However, it is the motives behind the bombs' use that has been the most greatly contested aspect of the event. Such works as Blackett's Fear, War and the Bomb asserted the now famous notion that "the dropping of the atomic bombs was not so much the last military act of the Second World War as the first major operation of the Cold War with Russia." Alperovitz's Atomic Diplomacy: Hiroshima and Potsdam similarly asserts that the use of the bomb was for diplomatic posturing opposite the Soviets. Asada notes that viewing the use of the bomb almost exclusively in the context of postwar hegemony over the USSR has been prevalent among Japanese academics. Frank's Downfall is itself written in part to counter such "revisionist" scholarship that attributes the use of the bombs to political rather than military goals. Other works, such as Maddox's Hiroshima in History and Giangreco's Hell to Pay are were also written as a response to revisionist histories, claiming that use of the bombs directly avoided what MacArthur called "a hard and bitter struggle with no quarter asked or given." (Giangreco 204) Still other historians have focused on other aspects of this debate; Skates in The Invasion of Japan: Alternative to the Bomb explains how massive and bloody an undertaking Downfall would have been, but asserts that "designed as a political statement that German and Japanese militarism would be eradicated...unconditional surrender drove the war to extremes of violence in 1945 and made the atomic bomb seem almost a benign alternative to an invasion."
>soldiers trained to charge when they run out of ammo
>trained to commit suicide instead of being captured
>trained to fly suicide bombs into warships
>kabuki theater
Yeah fuck that. You don't fight crazy on equal ground. The japs would have fought to every last bullet. Surrender simply wasn't in their lexicon, certainly not surrender to another empire. We had to unleash the power of the gods upon them. That's why they still kiss the ground we walk on to this day, and why you don't have mainland invasions of Asia and a super fleet of Japanese warships ruling the Pacific.
>>70071299
You're but it doesn't change the point
Aussies wanted those fuckers dead too
>>70073301
>desertion
>treason
Daily reminder that chronocentrism and ethnocentrism in retroglance is a sign of utmost ignorance and immaturity.
The U.S. was justified by all objective analysis of data and colective agreement of morality.
>>70069013
Nukes don't exist.
>>70074146
Quitting = forfeit = losing
>>70073894
Then take a look at The Shock of the Atomic Bomb and Japan's Decision to Surrender: A Reconsideration. It's on JSTOR if you have access. They most certainly didn't brush it off as just 'more bombs', it was a profound shock to them.
>>70074146
Also, treason is only a crime if your (new) side losing, or you get caught (you lose).
The ONLY crime in war is losing.
>>70068875
Because the allies won the war, and the orders to bomb were given by the highest ranking members of allies' military.
>>70068875
>Raping of Nanking
>prevented ground war which would have killed hundreds of thousands
/thread
This seems like a good place to post pics of Japanese war crimes
>>70068875
The logic is you don't come after the only country that has used nuclear arms in anger you fucking jungle monkey.
>>70068875
the US rebuilt Japan.....
>>70069848
will we reach that same point with ISIS? i really wonder sometimes. could we get away with it or would russia fuck us up?
>>70074382
Here's the relevant pages
>>70075082
>>70075139
>were properly warned
No american dog we will not back down
>y-you sure senpai we got wmds
Fucking no
>everyone's gonna die in the blink of an eye
Honorable death! For the empire!
Is basically how it went down
They asked for it and should have surenderd
Agent orange is real war crimes
>>70075139
Good Contribution!
"""War crimes""" are a meme designed to emasculate Western armies and prevent them from using successful tactics that win wars
If Raqqa and Mosul were nuked, there would be no IS
>>70068875
The japs deserve it.
>>70072487
People in Japan and the US have actually already made robots, and they're planning to have them battle soon.
Shows how much you know loser
>>70072538
This. The war was mostly over by the time that the US joined. It was really just a race to "liberate" as much territory as possible before it fell to the Soviets. It's worth noting that Korea and China fell to the communists in the aftermath of the war. Most of South-East Asia fell subsequently. Only South Korea and Japan, the places that the US successfully occupied, had a quick recovery and became prosperous.
>>70074054
funny the things you listed are what cost the Nips the war
>>70075173
Even after the Soviets invaded Manchuria and Nagasaki happened there were hardliners who insisted on continuing the fight out of honor.
>>70068875
Japan walked through the store, picked up what they wanted to buy, brought it to the counter and USAF checked them out.
They got what they bought. Too fuckin bad.
>>70075786
>>70068875
Do something about it faggot.
>>70068875
>War crimes
who ever invented this bullshit meme is the worst human to ever live.
If we Japan didn't get nuked they wouldn't have invented anime, therefore Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified.
>>70068971
FPBP
>that ID
>>70075897
using nuclear weapons on civilian cities is a clear violation of the geneva convention
>>70071554
Nigger, it two bombs.
TWO FUCKING BOMBS
To get them to surrender. Them crazy Nips didn't surrender after the FIRST fucking bomb. We had to drop another to convince them to surrender or face destruction, if THAT is not a testament to the will to fight from them then I don't know what is.
I regret nothing our forebears did.
>>70076178
Are you retarded the Geneva convention was made after this. These were the first two atom bombs ever so no rules against them you dumb fuck
Think of this this way, murikans. What if japs or germans nuked your asses before loosing the war? would you consider it a war crime? Of course you would, you even prosecuted people for waterboarding prisoner murikans, and yet it's not torture when you do it apparently.
>>70068971
first post best post
"Hey Emperor, we have two nuclear weapons that will destroy two of your cities. Surrender and we won't use them."
"YOUR BLUFFING JAPAN WILL NEVAR SURRENDERU"
(Hundreds of thousands of screams and radioactive bodies later)
"OK OK JAPAN WILL SURRENDAR PWEEZ DONT HURT US MORE!"
>>70070554
maybe they shouldn't have put them in camps?
A line was crossed in that war. The enemy homefront became a viable and legitimate target. And japan was an enemy. Not only to us but to china and korea as well. Rounding up innocent civilians in multiple countries that you suddenly and unjustly attacked and exterminating them en masse is just not comparable.
>>70076488
You forgot how they did that conversation twice
>>70068875
So was 14 million Chinese civilians desu
>>70076602
yeah the first time was just for the lulz, they didn't think we'd be crazy enough to do it twice
>>70076431
It was in line with strategic bombing, and the Luftwaffe was not prosecuted at Nuremberg for that.
>>70069266
The whole reason the Japs were running around the Pacific was to get resources they desperately needed. By the end of the war, they were dry. The US would only have to blockade the islands, and they would be starved not too long after. Invading he Home Islands would only speed up the process, or even lengthen it because of their warrior spirit in defending their home. Dropping two bombs on large cities was quite excessive. By the time the second city was nuked, it was a show of force to the Soviets more than arm-bending the Japs into surrendering, which part of the Japanese politicians were scrambling to accept against those who would not.
>>70076078
I don't get this picture, who is the crying one supposed to be? Unless there is no joke here.
>>70076653
>>70068875
winners of war do not commit war crimes.
>>70068875
>War crimes
what a meme
that shit doesn't mean anything
>>70068875
They actually killed more people on Vietnam and Laos after the war already ended by carpet bombing because of jews like Kissinger in the office. But yeah American people are delusional thinking that they are respected around the world, in reality most people hate America, everyone knows that American democracy is BS.
>>70076727
They bombed the cities to stop russia from advancing on asia. If you knew anything about history you would know about how russia followed US requests to stop invading asia once the second bomb was dropped
>>70074920
We could get away with it, but only through very cautious long term planning.
>>70068875
The logic is might makes right. It's why the empire of Brazil got to keep all the land it stole after it formally dissolved it's empire status
Both of these towns had strategic and military relevance to being selected. However, yes, a large part of the selection process was picking a place that would truly demonstrate the destructive potential of these weapons
>>70076591
>A line was crossed in that war.
That line was crossed by Churchill when he bombed German cities.
>that weeaboo tears thread
How come this only gets posted once per week? Oh right, weebs are lazy and they hold this issue in relatively low concern compared with anime breasts.
>>70076962
If you knew anything about reading or comprehending what you read, you would have understood the last sentence.
>>70077068
Yup. That was a defining moment. Changed everything.
>>70069074
Kek
>>70069333
This, had the axis won, no one would care about jews
>>70076942
How cute, want to explain to me why I give a fuck what some third world shit thinks? I'll wait.
>>70076431
not one single member of the Luftwaffe was prosecuted for strategic bombing, so no. We didn't try them for the blitz, nor for Rotterdam, nor for Warsaw. Japs were never tried for pearl harbor either
nice try Ivan
>>70076996
i guess that there's no real reason to destroy them. they're not actually a threat to us since they have no idea how to build shit. the only weapons they have are the ones that the CIA gives them so that they keep killing each other. sure, they blow up a few random bombs here and there, but they can't actually threaten the entire US. it's probably better for us to keep them alive since they probably do more damage to other people than they do to us. europe, russia, maybe india and china eventually will be struggling to keep them in check while we have relative control over the situation.
>>70077075
to be fair anime boobies matter far more.
>>70076942
keep crying bitch nigga
>>70068875
They had the opportunity to surrender both before and after the first bombs. Oh, and let's not forget the desire to never allow the sun to set in the Japanese Empire.
>>70077333
>to be fair anime boobies matter far more.
>This war-ending maneuver is indefensible!
>But check out this jpeg another neckbeard made.
Yeah, that's the whine-about-hiroshima crowd all right. 99 times out of 100 OP has a US flag though.
>>70077214
>Japan Korea Thailand
>third world
Most European people hated America after bombing Serbia too.
>>70077254
More accurate comparison would be the Japanese firebombings of Chonqing and Shanghai, which they weren't prosecuted for either.
>>70077331
It's like trump said, we need to stop playing world police. Unless we can conqueror and turn the fucking place into an United state. What's even the point? Killing people because they're killing people isn't really worth it to me... But if I can get a slice of that country as mine? Absolutely willing to go there.
>>70077254
>Japs were never tried for pearl harbor either
Actually they were, know your history Johny. Crimes against peace (Waging aggressive war against the United States (count 29 at the Tokyo Trials)
>>70068875
If I am correct there were military facilities there dude. Keep in mind that the ENTIRE population of japan was willing to die fighting americans and the estimated death toll for both sides would have been MUUUUCH higher than dropping twobombs
>>70077486
I guess you're not going to explain. Could you at least call me "A fucking white male?" while actually physically emoting the quotation marks?
As a chink, I thank america for nuking japan. Seriously, I think China would have definitely become a vassal state (along with other asian countries) and I would probably be some japanese rape baby.
>>70077753
I kinda did answer it.
>>70073594
I mean, that's just completely incorrect on every level but k.
Also, I still support the bombings.
>>70078042
>I mean, that's just completely incorrect on every level but k.
I'm sure you can explain how, of course.
In the documentary The Fog of War, former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara recalls General Curtis LeMay, who relayed the Presidential order to drop nuclear bombs on Japan,[97] said:
"If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals." And I think he's right. He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?
Curtis LeMay is credited with designing and implementing an effective, but also controversial, systematic strategic bombing campaign in the Pacific theater of World War II. During the war, he was known for planning and executing a massive bombing campaign against cities in Japan and a crippling minelaying campaign in Japan's internal waterways.
>>70075421
muh NATO/UN
>>70068875
Japan was one big atrocity.
>Pearl Harbor
>Whatever the fuck they did to the Chinese
No one will ever give a fuck about it.
>>70076727
>The whole reason the Japs were running around the Pacific was to get resources they desperately needed. By the end of the war, they were dry.
Damn. If only, like, we KNEW that, and shit. Who knew, that if the Japs gave us all the military intelligence we needed on their armed forces, we could have seen that they were starved for resources, and thus, did not need to be nuked.
If only it was that easy to get a white guy into a country of nips to hear the intelligence that was needed. Hmmm....
The winner is the good guy and the loser the bad one. If US would have lost, they would have been the evil capitalists who killed 6 gorillion
>>70068875
ITs always a brazil faggot who brings this up. Might be the same guy every time.
Either way repeat after me:
USA USA USA USA USA!!!!!
Everyone else can suck it.
USA USA USA USA USA!!!!!
We control you.
Get over it faggot, your nation would be crumpled up and thrown in the trash without a single american being hurt or even entering your airspace. We'd probably be able to drone you to defeat. Noone at all can judge us, we are the law.
>>70076431
>Of course you would.
That's an awful lot of assumptions there. I'd argue that the only "war crime," is starting the fucking war, which Japan did.
Anything else is done to win the fucking war, unless you want to count shit like rape and pillaging.
>you even prosecuted people for waterboarding prisoner murikans,
There was a host of other charges heaped onto this, most likely. I don't know if I'd call it a war crime since, you know, we're not actually in a proper war.
>and yet it's not torture when you do it apparently.
Most Americans are strongly against the patriot act and it's even been overturned by a SCOTUS decision.
I don't know why you're slinging shit. The worst shit my country ever did was done for the sake of keeping the crazed despots in fat lady Russia contained.
>>70078218
Fact of the matter is that strategic bombing was not a war crime in WW2 and it was not treated as one. Maybe the Japanese and Germans would have seen it differently if they'd somehow won but that's beside the point.
>>70077596
That was a peace time attack. Of course the US would want blood for it.
>>70078465
>gets bombed on 9/11 by three Boeings while eating a morning burger
>Start conquering islands
>People tell you to fuck off
>Ignore them
>Start war with Russia and China
>Lie about not being at war
>Commit all the war crimes
>Start an unprovoked war with U.S
>Gets ass pounded
>Losing islands and resources quickly
>Given a chance to surrender
>Refuse
>A city gets nuked
>Refuse second offer
>Another place gets nuked
>Finally surrender
>Gets sheltered from communism while having country rebuilt into economic powerhouse by former enemy
>The victim
Nice
>>70073301
i would ram my cock so hard up her ass, she'd be flying
No they weren't they were cities
Lenin committed crimes against humanity on a scale comparable to Hitler, too
winners don't get penalized
>>70068875
The Jews weren't making battleships and ammunition to fuel the war.
>>70069058
Japs tortured, raped, and performed vivisection on Chinese, Koreans, Russians, women and children. A TON of them.
A couple of quick nukes compared to tortuous demeanor is very even m8
>>70068875
I'm tired of seeing this argument. Japan was not a conventional enemy, surrender was worse than death and brought shame to their entire family. As we took islands, the locals were committing suicide to preserve their honor or dying fighting. Their military was decimated, but they were still churning out people to fight being that everyone was ready to die for the emperor. We had to show them that we were fully capable of wiping them out entirely and that is what we did. Would you have rather had a full scale invasion of Japan and have millions of casualties on both sides or a few hundred thousand are enemy combatants? They were not civilians, they were all ready to die for the emperor being that it was all they knew. It's not just black and white, Japan was an entirely different nation then than it is now.
>>70076962
Then why not bomb Russia instead faggot
>>70074685
>>70071299
Poor guy. I'm sure he honorably shitposted the Nip's radio communications before he died.
>>70068875
>Land invasion of Japan with +1million expected US military casualties over a entire year and risk Russia coming over and grabbing japanese clay
Or
>Nuke two medium size cities and finish the war in a few days
There were only two options. I think we made the right choice.
>>70078890
that's the spirit
>>70079189
Patton wanted to
My grandfather was a US marine in the pacific theater, and would have been part of the invasion of Japan.
So in my opinion, using the bombs was absolutely the right choice. Using the nukes saved far more lives than the invasion, so it's a win win, since more japanese would have died in an invasion.
>>70078308
>, we could have seen that they were starved for resources
I doubt it was a huge secret, americans were not so stupid back then. They did start the war to get some resources after all
>>70078890
I think it's a boy, but don't let it stop you.
>>70073386
>Why the fuck do people take those bombs out of context?
I think that's because when you bomb normally you can at least pretend to aim for military/industrial targets and that you care about unavoidable civilian loses. But with nukes it's just "fuck that we're killing 100k+ civilians".
>>70080175
You can't really pretend to be aiming for military targets with firebombs.
The firebombs are a huge part of the reason they chose Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because those cities had been mostly spared from firebombing, and had little cultural/historic value compared ot other cities.
>>70072259
They liked baseball way longer than that. It's a great pastime, for only the most civilized of nations!
>>70079524
WWII wasn't very difficult for American army, occupying force, good weather, plenty of supplies and not a lot of enemy to deal with. And still they lost almost half a million people. Notice that Patton was in charge of it all for two years. Why is he considered a great general ?
>>70080789
>Patton was in charge of the entire war effort
You can stop posting any time.
>>70080745
>baseball
>civilized
>you literally wave a stick trying to hit things and then run screaming
uh-oh
>>70080932
The war was almost over by the time America entered it in 1943.
>>70081256
>1943
OK, I can see you've been posting shitty bait throughout this thread, have your last (you).
The atomic bombings were a terrorist act committed against the peaceful people of Japan.
>>70069253
You're a fucking wombat m8...
>>70081715
That's one big rat. I wonder how big your bears are.
>>70081980
All I can say is you don't want to hear two of those fuckers fighting while you're camping in the middle of the night. Let alone be near them.
>>70081516
Most of the major battles have been fought before America and Allies got involved. Kursk and Stalingrad for example. I think the war would be over soon regardless if America helped one or another, only Germany would protect most territories in Europe and Soviet Union would sing a peace treaty and control some of the Slavic countries. It could end in 1943 if it wasn't for allies because they wanted to control Europe.
>>70068971
Holy shit saved.
The bombs were meant to spook the leaders into surrendering. They didn't work ,but russia invading the north certainly did.
The firebombing of Tokyo? THAT was a warcrime. We knew exactly what was happening with those.
>>70082309
>Forgetting about the whole Pacific Theater when this whole thread has been about Japan.
Japan's navy got fucking rekt by the USN in 1942.
>>70080175
You don't know how WW2 bombs worked at all, did you?
WW2 bombsights were literally "See this patch of land? Everything in it is gone."
That's why bombing campaigns were carried out via carpet bombing. Precision bombs didn't exist in WW2, and good luck hitting even a building with remote accuracy when you're flying at 16,000+ feet.
That's why fleets of bombers were deployed on every bombing mission.
tl;dr: Bombing mainland japan with conventional bombs would have been even more destructive than the nukes.
>>70068875
So? And?
>>70083033
Japan was only interested and in some islands, they would never take on the Soviet army on mainland Russia would've retrieved on in case of defeat in the Pacific. Like I said the war would not last that long because Russia could easily make a union with Germany and settle territorial disputes in peace.
>>70083558
I think you're truly delusional if you thought that Stalin and Hitler would have made a peace treaty after Operation Barbarossa.
And the point I was making was that WW2 wasn't just about Europe. It's called a World War for a reason and the US contributed significantly to the war by taking down Japan in South-East Asia.
>>70083879
Japan is country made of islands. How hard it is to understand that they can't just rule over a continent?
>>70068875
When you consider what the Japanese did during the war, they deserved those two bombs.
>>70069366
Well.
The Brazilian Expeditionary Force or BEF (Portuguese: Força Expedicionária Brasileira; FEB) consisted of about 25,700 men and women arranged by the army and air force to fight alongside the Allied forces in the Mediterranean Theatre of World War II. Brazil was the only independent South American country to send ground troops to fight in WWII.
>>70083879
And yes I think Germany and Russia were able to get to peace talks after so many casualties on both sides after a few years of fighting.
>>70084234
When you consider American imperialism, they deserved 9/11.
>>70084162
Because they actually conquered a good amount of territory.
And also the fact that they at one point had the strongest navy in the world if it weren't for the US navy.
>>70069867
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Lg_SqmevQ
>>70084523
Adding onto this: There's evidence that they were planning an attack on Australia. If they captured Australia, that would be impossible to get them out of due to the fact that there is no real good way to attack Australia aside from territory they already controlled.
Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of American and Japanese lives.
If we didn't bomb Japan and went with a D-Day style land assault on Japan, millions would have died. The Japanese were brainwashed to fight till the very end, and every single Japanese civilian was armed and ready to die. We saved their lives, as well as our own, by nuking them.
gtfo smelly banana feet Brazilian
>>70084523
>asians conquering other asians
North Korea would be a better place now
Was Hiroshima Necessary? - Institute for Historical Review
www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html
>>70073704
>This doctrine, established by Roosevelt at the 1943 Casablanca conference, sought to tear out all the militant elements within the governments and societies of the Axis nations.
BLOOD
>>70069162
kek. We firebombed Tokyo AFTER we dropped the nukes. I think they were more deaths due to firebombing than the nukes as well.
Winners don't commit war crimes dumbass.
>>70084764
nigga the japs were already defeated at that point. They had no navy, there was no way they would be able to capture Australia.
The Japs were planning to defend their homeland to the last one standing. It would have been a bloody conflict that would have cost many millions of lives. Nuking was as the more humane alternative. Better 2 dead japs than one dead american anyways.
>>70085550
He's probably talking about the first year of the war when Japan was at it's strongest before they started fighting with the US. Japan was actually planning to invade Australia.
>>70072986
300,000 if you include Toyota.
>>70068971
havnt laughed hard enough to make my sides hurt in a while.lol. thanks anon
