>New scientific tests on the Shroud of Turin, which went on display Saturday in a special TV appearance introduced by the Pope, dates the cloth to ancient times, challenging earlier experiments dating it only to the Middle Ages.
>The new test, by scientists at the University of Padua in northern Italy, used the same fibers from the 1988 tests but disputes the findings. The new examination dates the shroud to between 300 BC and 400 AD, which would put it in the era of Christ.
>It determined that the earlier results may have been skewed by contamination from fibers used to repair the cloth when it was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages, the British newspaper reported. The cloth has been kept at the cathedral since 1578.
>He also said his tests also supported earlier results claiming to have found traces of dust and pollen on that shroud that could only have come from the Holy Land.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/03/30/shroud-turin-display/2038295/
B T F O
T
F
O
>also, just for good measure, proof that the shroud is real: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRB16BARvz0
>>69999137
I'm sorry how does any of this prove anything other than a guy named Jesus existed?
>>69999137
>a piece of cloth
wow let's believe all the bullshit christianity offers to us!
>>69999531
That jesus is real and gives more weight to the bible
>>69999823
Hey roach, how about that Armenian genocide eh?
>>69999531
Because if He existed he must have been G-d. It says o in the Bible.
Pic related: what u look like right now.
>>70000182
delete this
>>69999823
>Turk
LEPANTO
E
P
N
O
>>70000216
> G-d
Why do people do this shit? God isn't his name.
>>69999531
Dude, it was his special binky.
>>69999531
>forgetting HOW the image got burned into the fibers.
do you think all humans just emit holy light and burn images into things when they die?
the fact that it happened AT ALL is all the proof you need, faggot lover.
>>69999947
Kim jong il was real and there are plenty of fucked up legends about him.
It means you are gullible enough to believe them.
Christians are as degenerates as men believing they are women.
>>70000466
I agree. Why can't people just write Trump?
>>70000425
Hot damn, that looks good.
>>69999137
Nonsense, tests on religious objects are usually done in environments highly controlled by the church. They were likely skewed to match whatever the church wanted to proof.
Also, why do Christians feel like they need to proselytise to everyone? Can't you be like the jews and keep your religion to yourselves?
>>69999137
>>69999531
Jews right now.
400 AD is definitely late enough for people to forge relics
>>69999947
Christianity can barely make a claim the guy existed. That's why when there is a possibility some minor discovery is possibly made, all the Christian fags are up in arms ready to throw it in your face. In reality, half the world knows it's fake, doesn't think twice, and goes about their day. In fact, I'm God. I took a photocopy of my ass, buried it for 2000 years, prove me wrong.
>>70000641
>Can't you be like the jews and keep your religion to yourselves?
>jews
>keep religion to selves
>>69999137
Who fucking cares? So a piece of cloth is old. Divinity =/= proven.
Why would anyone fake a religious relic????????????? ;;;;;))))
>300 AD
>within Jesus' lifetime
Three carbon dates points to the middle ages. That means it's 3-1 i favor of hoax. No mentions of it before it magically appeared in France innth 1300s.
Christcuck worshipping a jew? Not even once. Hail Jupiter
>>69999137
>2013
>>70000713
lol christianity is bullshit like all the religions deal with it faggot
>>70000778
Have you ever seen jews proselytise?
You might say they are trying to take over the world or whatever, but not by religious means.
>Dimond brothers
stop
>>70000425
Quit drinking due to alcoholism, but I'd cheat to have a sip of that
>>70000641
>Tests on the Shroud date it to the Middle Ages
>LOL CHRISTIANS BTFO
>Tests on the Shroud date it to the time of Christ
>TESTS DON'T COUNT, THE CHURCH RIGGED IT.
Okay
>>70000690
Catalonian detected.
>>70000832
Fuck misread the dates. Still 3-1 ;)))
One day the Muslims will rise up and hunt the Christians to extinction, cutting their heads off, burning them alive, slicing their necks, and tossing them from rooftops. Christians will turn the other cheek as it happens.
>>70000557
Please be bait. If not, listen to yourself. Holy light, you're delusional, seek help.
>>70000557
this
>>69999137
>between 300 BC and 300 AD
Er, that doesn't prove anything except that a piece of cloth it is older than was previously thought. And that is only if we accept that this study is more valid than the last one.
>>70000603
>liquor looks good from the packaging
You are an alcoholic.
>>70000900
Jews don't knock on your door to convert you. They just bludgeon your government, your city council, your school system, your media, your financial system, your culture, and your religion with their own with a massive mallet called "MUH SIX MILLION".
>>70000768
Well someone could kill you that would be a pretty easy way to prove your are not god lol.
>>70000867
And worshipping a homosexual, alcoholic dönmeh Jew isn't?
>>70000919
I never cared if they were or not made in the middle ages, also like >>70000690 pointed, 400 AD is late enough for forgery.
>>70001006
guess you shouldn't have done all those pogroms back then...
>>70000915
No, stay strong friend. Alcohol isn't that great anyway.
>>70001037
Yea because Jesus wasn't killed faggot. You just proved my point. Back to school Kevin.
>>70000557
>holy light
You mean radiation.
>>70001083
Yes, history will never forget the great American Jewish pogrom
>it's a Christians getting offended easily thread
>>69999137
wow the shroud of turin really makes christ look like a nigger huh
>>69999823
As opposed to a pedophile telling everyone to do what he says because God told him so?
>>69999137
Funny how Christfags agree with science when it conforms to their beliefs, but disagree with it when it comes to evolution.
Either way, that's still a 700 year range.
>>69999137
who gives a shit. jesus said he is the savior of the jews and refused to help a gentile in need
fuck him and space jew. my ancestors on both sides fucked up christians. we ransacked your churches for silver in england and executed all who arrived on a dutch trading vessel and any who converted to christianity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quTXwTjgfc0
>>70000768
The guy existed what are you talking about? Josephus and Roman writings both speak of Jesus, now whether or not he is a son of God is up to whoever.
>>69999137
>that pic
Watts are not a measurement of energy, it's a measurement of energy as a function of time.
>>70000867
>Muslim talking shit about any religion
Kek.
>>70001083
Pogroms were actually peasant uprising against Jewish tyranny.
>>70001207
>it's a fedora tippers get triggered and commit several acts of blasphemy thread
wew
e
w
lads
>>70001207
>Christian post Christ-stuff
>atheists waddle into thread and go: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
>Christians are the ones being offended
Get punched Lebo
>>69999823
>A
>FUCKING
>SHROUD
>>70001097
>Alcohol isn't that great
>>69999137
I'm an atheist but that isn't as unreasonable as it sounds as long it was only a picosecond.
>>70001237
>refused to help non-Jews
>healed a Canaanite woman's child
>healed a Roman aristocrats child
>>70001040
So you are an uneducated, ignorant idiot. Go on and lick my foot like a good christian.
>>70000950
End times soon
>>70001250
Josephus is a forgery, but yea there is like one or two other reliable sources that said a guy named Jesus existed, but they conveniently don't mention any miracles.
>>70001252
>not a measurement of energy
>it's a measurement of energy with some time
>>70001237
Did you stop reading that story midway dumbass?
>>69999823
SAYS THE FUCKING ROCK KISSER LOL
>>70001237
Besides pious Jews back then were actually proto-Christians who were waiting for Jesus Christ to arrive. They have little in common with modern Talmudical """"Jews""""
>>69999823
>Following an illiterate warlord
wow let's believe all the bullshit Muhammad tought us after one of his seizures!
>>70001195
>implying the americans aren't descendant from Europeans
Plus, if you think the Jews are indeed behind all the mothern leftist bs, then they were pretty kind. If you compare yourself to the rest of the world, the rest clearly took the brunt.
>>70001324
>lend money
>rightfully ask for interest
>"wah wah joos stawl frum me"
>>70001538
How is Josephus a hoax?
>>70001237
>and refused to help a gentile in need
Wew lad
>>70000915
If you have a history of alcoholism, never cheat. It's the first step off the wagon.
So wait,
A group in Italy say that the shroud is legit time of Christ. They say this using the same sample that the teams of experts, and labs at Oxford, Zurich, and Arizona whose results agreed with each other during the original test were wrong.
Somehow, I'm a bit suspicious of this finding.
>>70000975
Er, it proves that GOD is real you fucking blasphemer
>>69999137
>infrared light & spectroscopy
No. Small wonder that the dates are so massively varied; why would they even do this?
>contamination from fibers used to repair the cloth when it was damaged by fire in the middle ages
The repaired areas were specifically avoided for that purpose. Furthermore, it was not one group of fibers that were tested; multiple samples were sent to three different laboratories (Arizona, Oxford, and Zurich) along with three other samples of cloth taken from other objects from antiquity, the identity of all remaining undisclosed until the tests were complete. All three laboratories dated all of the fibers of the Shroud as originating from the mid-13th century to the latter 14th centuries.
>determined that the earlier results may have been skewed by contamination from fibers used to repair the cloth ... The new test used the same fibers from the 1988 tests
So they used the same fibers from the 1988 tests
the fibers which were contaminated
they used those fibers
This article is fucking stupid.
>>70001669
To be fair Oxford is more of a meme college these days but I agree with the Zurch and Arizona pieces.
>>70001509
Published in "Forward" the English-speaking worlds premier and most prestigious Jewish publication.
>>70001669
Fucking Italians.
you do realize that 34 x 10^9 watts for 0.1 secounds would fucking fuck everything within 10 meters up..
>>70001332
Why do you believe the jew man named Yeshua who claimed he was the son of the jew God JHVH over 2000 years ago? How fucking insane are you?
>>70001564
Not sure what you're getting at but a watt is literally a joule per second.
It's not exactly a unit of lumination either btw.
>>69999531
Wait..what?
> Did it have a name tag stitched in?
>>70001229
Loling at everyone who thinks i'm a muslim XDD Stay mad faggots.
>>70000384
A fucking cockroach
>>70001576
>YOU ARE A WHITE MALE
>>69999137
This guy must have been radiated as fuck.
>>70001777
I am a mentally stable adult that is probably 10x smarter than you 2bh
>>70001634
Ahhhh, so now we get to the crux of the issue. Jewish hatred of non-Jews and the belief in inherited guilt.
If inherited guilt were a thing, then we'd still be burning Jews at the stake for what they did in Spain, for counterfeiting money, for poisoning wells, for killing gentile children for use in blood rituals, for their continued attacks on Christianity, for their spreading of pornography, for their abuse of the media and financial institutions, for their nepotism, and for general attempts to undermine Western culture using any means at their disposal.
If you believe Americans are guilty because of something maybe a few tens of Europeans did 500 years ago, then you just legitimized every single argument of Jew hate in existence and gave fuel to the belief they should be wiped out as a race.
Now, do you want to take it back and apologize for your anti-white racism, Sprite?
>>70001825
Just fucking with you Finbro.
>>70001564
It's not contradictory you fucking retard.
Energy = joules
Watt = work done
Joules are energy, Watts are power, you can't say "watts in a split second" because a watt is a per second measurement.
>>70001639
It's been common knowledge for years for anyone not parroting talking points who actually read. Google it. Luckily for people like you, there is a Roman historian that confirmed his existence. I'll leave it up to you to find out who. If you even bother you can quack his name for the rest of your life. You're welcome. Now you only sound like half a retard.
>>70001775
>>70001777
Oh look the brainwashed Scandinavians have arrived. You know that you've all been bombarded with atheist propaganda, right?
>>70001564
>ameriburgers
Watt is Js^-1
Energy is J
The unit for luminous intensity is cd
Oh wait. You are an American. These units mean nothing to you.
Everyone knows this isn't genuinely a cloth that covered a Jew from 2000 years ago. Pollen from the holy land? Bullshit lol.
What fascinates people is that there was knowledge of alchemy back in the middle ages, similar to the modern photography techniques used in the 19th century.
>>70001775
Maybe that's where the stone that was in front of the cave went.
>>70001737
>To be fair Oxford is more of a meme college these days but I agree with the Zurch and Arizona pieces.
Well, the original testing was done in 1988, so Oxford was probably not so much a meme.
Arizona: 646 ± 31 years;
Oxford: 750 ± 30 years;
Zürich: 676 ± 24 years old
Italy: 300 BC to 400 AD.
(University of Padua)
Weird how they find this using the exact same sample.
>>70001577
Why the fuck would they have been waiting for Jesu to show up? He does not fulfill all of the requirements for the Mashiach, and therefore cannot be him.
FURTHER, there is a HEAP of evidence that the Jews who converted to Christianity were neither Levantine nor pious.
>>70001352
>>70001364
this shroud argument is about as solid evidence as the WE WUZ KANGZ image macros. Can you evangelicalnogs stop trying to 'prove' biblical stories?
It is simply a matter of faith and belief, and you just gotta accept that the majority of the planet isn't buying the story.
Anyway, I thought you were all against carbon dating because JESUS RAPTOR LOLZ
>>70001175
>Radiation is holy light
Does that make nuclear power god's preferred power source?
>>70001875
No you're a Kemalist.
>Atatürku Akbar
>Long live Emmanuel Carasso (PBUH)
>>70001941
Hahahaha, go to bed David Duke. If you go by that logic than jews will probably still be on credit with all the murdering done unto them.
Also, I'm not gonna bother discussing with some dunce who can't even understand a joke.
>>70000954
>34.000.000 MOTHERFUCKING WATTS
>34 FUCKING GIGAWATTS
Yeah, everyone is just crazy now. Bible can't be true.
>tips menorah
>>69999137
>proof that the shroud is real
>youtube
>>>/x/
>>70002225
Yes
Kek. Except, according to the Messiahic prophecy, Jesus of Nazareth didn't fufill a single point to prove he is the Messiah. He was more than likely a just a hippy magician with a god complex.
>>70002133
Valid thinking since Christ wouldn't had to have use the door in a sense since he was a celestial being at the point.
>>70002191
He fulfilled all requirements.
>>70000557
please stay in your bible belt containment zone.
thanks,
the rest of the US
>>70001830
>>>69999531
>Wait..what?
>> Did it have a name tag stitched in?
kek kek
>>70002261
>If you go by that logic than jews will probably still be on credit with all the murdering done unto them.
My logic? I used your logic against you and now you're in a tizzy.
You want Americans to be held accountable for some nebulous 'crime' that MAY have occurred eons ago against Jews, but when I turn the tables and use the exact same argument against Jews, ahh yes. Now it's time to toss some toys, stamp your foot, and exclaim how unfair it is.
It's okay if you won't discuss these things. Your beliefs are transparent and visible to all.
How's the impeachment going of your communist Jewess, by the way?
>>70002373
No he didn't. He didn't fufill even a single one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_in_Judaism
>>70002181
Forgot to point out that calibration put Arizona, Oxford, and Zurich dates to be roughly 1250-1380 with significant overlap between labs.
>>70001775
It would fuck up more than that. It's the same as it being struck by three bolts of lightning simultaneously, or an hours worth of electricity in Ontario on the hottest day of the year.
>>70002089
And you have been bombarded with religious propagana. Now we are even, faggot.
The only way religion survives is the indoctrination and brainwashing of children. As the jew man Yeshua is credited to have said:
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
>>70002473
>links Wikipedia article written by a Pharisaic Talmudist
Kek
>>70002536
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rfs4f4vjUw
hello R
>>70002584
Oh, I forgot. Nigger can't read.
Isaiah 1:26: "And I will restore your judges as at first and your counsellors as in the beginning; afterwards you shall be called City of Righteousness, Faithful City." Some Jews[9] interpret this to mean that the Sanhedrin will be re-established."(Isaiah 1:26)
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:11–17)
He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8–10, 2 Chronicles 7:18)
The "spirit of the Lord" will be upon him, and he will have a "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
Nations will recognize the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13–53:5)
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
The people of Israel will have direct access to the Torah through their minds and Torah study will become the study of the wisdom of the heart (Jeremiah 31:33)
He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13–15, Ezekiel 36:29–30, Isaiah 11:6–9)
>>70000557
Yes, I am sure that there is conclusive proof that the image was somehow burned into the fabric by 'holy light', and not a different method.
This is why christfags are such a laughingstock.
You dumb niggers have a perfectly suitable code of laws to live by, but you have to fuck everything up with your pathetic masturbation over obviously fake 'miracles'.
Why don't you just be humble and live as your icon told you? Why desperately seek validation? It's sad.
>>70002373
He didn't. He wasn't a military leader, he did not restore Jerusalem to its own, he did not centralize the Jewish state as the leader of the world, and he did not restore the Temple.
He was a descendant of David and was arguably a charismatic social and political leader with apparently a good breadth of knowledge of the Old Law. This would have applied to several contemporary Rabbis. None of them can be the Mashiach unless they fulfill all of the requirements.
>>70001332
>>70001352
top kek
kikestian damage control is piss poor.
>>70002181
Oh well fair enough then.
>>70001634
Jews where banned from cyprus because they killed 240,000 of its inhabitants, no one is without bloodied hands
>>70002894
>t. atheist internet defence force
>>70002616
>le Kangaroo XD
>>70002519
Wait, that's for 30 billion, not 30 trillion.
34 trillion watts is about the same as 2000 Hiroshima nukes going off simultaneously.
>>69999137
Jesus was an extraterrestrial.
>>70002853
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10212c.htm
https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/jesus/proofessay
>>70002853
Most of those requirements were met, if we're talking metaphorically or the fact his word is still read around the world.
It's not like the Jewish belief system is perfect either when they gleaned many of their stories from surrounding cultures, Noah's flood being the most obvious.
>>70002303
There's more truth to this statement than you will ever know.
maybe jesus was an alium, and thats just what happens to aliums when they die after 40 hours
they get real bright and then they're alive again
>>70003277
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/mashiach.htm
http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/17-03.html
>>70003539
>some shit written by a Rabbinical Talmudist """"""Jew"""""
>>70003310
Oh man, do not get me fucking started on the OT.
But these requirements are pretty unambiguously meant to apply to a man during his lifetime, and interpreted such as literally as the Pentateuch.
>>69999137
Whites sure love their kike fables.
A GUY NAME YASHUAH MIGHT HAVE EXISTED
IT DOESN'T MAKE HIM A SUPER JEW JUST BECAUSE OTHER JEWS WROTE ON PAPER HE WAS A SUPER-JEW
The JEWS have been saying for centuries how amazing they are and you Goy idiots swallow it up like good fucking race idiots than wonder why are society sucks today.
>>70003719
>posts links to self-interested sites
>cries like a weakling when I respond in kind
You're a mewling babyman.
>>70000583
Yes it gives more weight to those legends about Kim by the fact that he was real then if he had not existed at all.
You don't agree with this?
>>70003859
Link me a Karaite source and we'll talk. I'm not going to waste my time with Talmudists.
>>70002699
That shit happens during the 2nd coming.
>>70003326
Oh I know
>>70004268
You mean the first? When the Messiah actually comes?
>>70004222
But you will waste your time gobbling up what's fed to you without question, and you do contrive to waste everyone else's time with your echo-chamber ranting.
This is why you're fucking lame, dude.
I understand how carbon dating works... but if you're trying to carbon date something that's been exposed to a holy fuckton of radiation that burns an image into cloth, couldn't you expect to get wrong dates?
>>70004329
So you don't have a Karaite source?
>>70000915
Nah dude don't think like that... Stay strong brah
>>70004328
No I mean when he makes his reappearance. It's still the same person. The first appearance was to save us from the false prophets. The pharisees had fallen off of the right path.
>>70004488
I don't, but why should I? Karaite weren't the authority at the time of the scriptures' annotation, nor were they a source for jack shit until Islam was wreaking havoc. Your request is a suspiciously-specific demand for peculiar authority and I wonder at its motivations.
Plus, y'know, source sites aren't quite telling me "This website exercises a Karaite perspective."
>>70004916
It's because they don't follow the Talmud.
>>70004668
Why did the inclinations of the Pharisees matter?
>>70005075
Hey, I'm down with that! The Talmud can get fucked! But unfortunately, Messianic requirements are all over the OT. These are requirements that the NT and its adherents are attempting to appeal to, not Talmudic trash.
>>70002699
>>69999137
God killed himself to give himself permission to forgive you for the flaws he engineered you with. And if you are not grateful for this, then you will be tortured and tormented for eternity by his greatest engineering blunder and nemesis lucifer. Not only that, but you are cursed with inherited sin because he allowed the most evil creature in existence (which he created) to wander his paradise and corrupt and his creations.
Nice try, but there is no God but Allah, anon!
>>70005294
but God exists outside of time; and so Jesus saved everyone irrespective of when they died so really nobody has ever even seen Hell.
>>70005079
Idol worship. Money.
Money is fine, but religion shouldn't be a business.
Many churches devolve like this. Their focus should be on the people's connection to the Lord.
>>70005367
Then what is the point of Christianity?
>>70005527
Dude it's love lmao.
Why else would we exist if not for the irrational love of an omnipotent being?
An omnipotent being would have no use for us; hence our existence is proof of it's irrational love of us.
>>70005492
Sure, but why was correcting them so vital? They weren't the ruling class of Jerusalem, the Sadducees were; the Pharisees didn't gain power until the fall of the Temple.
Nevermind that the story of chucking out the moneychangers, while cool as all hell, probably never happened.
>>69999137
The shroud of Turin has been a confirmed fake for decades now
>>70005294
>God killed himself to give himself permission to forgive you for the flaws he engineered you with.
Totally makes sense and not made up from the warped mind of Jews.
>>69999137
If you want to know the Vatican's ulterior motive and other secrets regarding the shroud, read this. It puts everything into context.
http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/relics/shroud-of-turin/
>>70005672
You have just demolished yourself.
What is the porpose of worshipping if it makes no difference either way?
There is no logical reason an omnipotent being who created the entire universe would give a fuck about us.
Hundreds of billions of galaxies each containing hundreds of billions of stars, with many of these having planets that orbit them. We are a spec of dust in a backwater galaxy, in a backwater solar system. Why would the being that created all of this be so vain as to require us to tell him how awesome he is?
The Catholic Church steam washed the Shroud of Turin though.
>>70005691
Supposing that Christ is truly divine, it wouldn't be unlikely that he could see into the future to some degree. Can you say that the pharisees wouldn't have been stronger today without christianity and the teachings of Christ? Or maybe even more corrupted groups?
>>69999531
just be happy jesus is real, he was an incarnation of Krishna
>>70006459
A very good one.
>>70006457
It all went out the window with the diaspora, so no, I don't think the Pharisees would've been worth a shit without Christ. Rome was still *Rome* and would have smashed the state with or without a fringe-heretic (contemporary to the time) religion converting people over in Achaea.
The Pharisees were going to be fucked either way.
>>69999823
> Christianity
> bullshit
Name a single teaching from Jesus that if followed, would not improve the world.
Inb4 you pull something out of the Old Testament.
>>70006707
>>70006679
>>70006457
It's hilarious to watch non-Jews take Jewish fables seriously and fight back and forth of a foreign Jewish myth.
If you three are Jews, I can understand you discussing it.
If you're not Jews, then you're cucks.
>>69999137
It is claimed that the cloth has some pollen grains and images on it that are of plants found only in the Dead Sea region of Israel. Avinoam Danin, a botanist from Hebrew University of Jerusalem claims he has identified pollen from the tumbleweed Gundelia tournefortii and a bean caper on the shroud. He claims this combination is found only around Jerusalem. Some believers think the crown of thorns was made of this type of tumbleweed.
However, Danin did not examine the shroud itself. His sample of pollen grains originated with Max Frei, who tape-lifted pollen grain samples from the shroud.
Frei's pollen grains have been controversial from the beginning. Frei, who once pronounced the forged "Hitler Diaries" to be genuine, probably introduced the pollen grains himself or was duped and innocently picked up pollen grains another pious fraud had introduced (Nickell).
Danin and his colleague Uri Baruch also claim that they found impressions of flowers on the shroud and that those flowers could only come from Israel. However, the floral images they see are hidden in mottled stains much the way the image of Jesus is hidden in a tortilla or the image of Mary is hidden in the bark of a tree.
The first to see flowers in the stains was a psychiatrist, who was probably an expert at seeing personality traits in inkblots (Nickell, 1994)
http://skepdic.com/shroud.html
>>70006967
It's hilarious to me to observe someone outright dismiss exegesis on what is unambiguously the most important book ever printed as far as history, international & local politics, moral theory, Western & Russian civilization &etc. is concerned...
...all so that you can utter the 'cuck' maymay again.
It's at least 9am in the States; why have you skipped school?
>>69999137
>dated to 300 - 400 AD
>still centuries after the death of Christ
TOP KEK
>>70007100
In any case, the fact that pollen grains found near the Dead Sea or Jerusalem were on the shroud means little. Even if the pollen grains weren't introduced by some pious fraud, they could have been carried to the shroud by anyone who handled it. In short, the pollen grains could have originated in Jerusalem at any time before or after the appearance of the shroud in Italy. This is not a very strong piece of evidence.
>>70006387
>Why would the being that created all of this be so vain as to require us to tell him how awesome he is?
read my last post
>>70007267
>what is unambiguously the most important book ever printed as far as history, international & local politics, moral theory, Western & Russian civilization &etc. is concerned...
It's a book about Jewish Nationalism (Old Testament) turned Multicultural (New Testament).
It teaches man to give up the warrior spirit and allow your enemies to walk all over you.
It tells you to give up your possessions to your ruler and to be happy with your ruler because he was appointed by God.
It's anti-European spirit and insane for any people who want to survive to believe in it. We can see the culmination of this Jewish virus today in the West. Western people are a weak and pathetic people who are welcoming their raping refuges while their Christian leaders kiss the feat of feral beasts.
You people need to be cleansed from our lands.
>>70000557
It's just ochre paint
>>69999823
RARE
>>69999137
DESU VALUT!!!
>>70007777
Oh, I'm not saying it's correct. I'll never say that. I've read too much on it.
But it IS unambiguously the most important book ever printed about those things. It has been examined for centuries and its teachings modeled after by all manner of states, philosophies, rituals &etc.
To not talk about it - to ignore it and mock those who contemplate its significance and how it applies to our modern world, much less how it has affected history - is pure anti-intellectualism.
You won't cleanse me; you're too shitty. And unlike the faggots on /pol/, I actually sight-in and clean my fucking guns. I don't buy them to take pictures of them to post on the internet.
Nice quads, tho.
>>70007448
Sorry britbong, you are dilluded.
>Why else would we exist if not for the irrational love of an omnipotent being?
You naively assume that your existence has some mystical purpose ordained by a magical, invisible being who only ever revealed himself to bronze age dessert dwellers known to be the greatest swindlers mankind has to offer.
>>69999531
Jesus was a badass, the predecessor to us all. He made us believe we can go to heaven for laying down the bantz on merchants and witches.
>>70000641
if the church actually believed that it was real they would now blast it on all channels.
To my knowledge their official stance is still that its not real but still an important artifact.
And honestly it IS pretty interesting, i mean if you wanted to fake it you could have just taken some regular shroud, spill some blood on it and call it real.
Instead we got this... whoever made it worked on some other level than the regular forgers back then (and there were countless, people were fucking crazy for even the smallest piece of some third-grade saint)
>>70006679
The pharisees would have remained a strong influence regardless. They survived Rome destroying the other jews. The thing is that Christ took influence over Rome rather than them, which kept the world's strongest nation at the time from being influenced by a religion based off of teachings that could be made up on the spot, which happened often in the oral torah. The pharisees were influential with the common people because they taught the way of niggers today. Imagine if Rome had behaved like niggers.
>>70006707
His "turn the other cheek" philosophy results in civilized countries being overrun with savages, which in turn leads to death and destruction for the very people who follow his teachings.
>>69999137
Bullshit, carbon tests are accurate, 300 BC - 400 AD, what kind of hack scientist would conclude this.
>>70000954 >>70000973 >>70001175 >>70002378 >>70002751 >>70007788
>dibs fedora respectfully at you
>>70009038
ahaha yeah right because all these centuries where the church was strong this didnt happen and now that christianity is falling apart it DOES happen, how the fuck does this work?
>>69999531
That he rose from death after three days and that he is God.
>>70008895
Eh, maybe. Christianity didn't become influential over Rome until a couple of centuries after the diaspora, and kept the Jews pretty firmly squished before then if Josephus' accounts of Pilate are true (which they really probably are).
For sure, the Pharisees were not very influential in Rome proper beyond the Levant; this is why Christianity did so well in Greece in the first place - multi-generation-removed Jews in Achaea were losing discipline as far as Hebrew was concerned, and turned to Septuagints (which necessarily lost certain things in translation (like the fucking tetragrammaton) as their lingua franca had transitioned to Koine Greek); these paved the way for more-liberal interpretations of the Tanach, which was necessary for Christianity to take hold.
SO NO, I don't think the Pharisees would've had much for influence on the Roman state; people just didn't give a fuck outside of proximity to the Temple.
I would still have wanted them to get fucked tho.
>>70009038
Keep that germanics arrnt christians, you arent a victim here you fucking hypocrite
Pigskin
You guys are so stupid
Fuck you
>>69999137
>34 trillion watts
are you fucking serious? thats more than the consumption of the whole world in a year how retarded could you be to think that power like that would just butn some cloth? it would vaporize the fuck of everything around it
>>70001250
>up to whoever.
its really only up to you... whether I or anyone else has believed Jesus is God can only affect you if you believe it too..
If he is God you can only know it and be saved if you believe it first..
>>69999137
>It's a religionfag episode
>>69999137
Gee, that's only a 700-year confidence interval. And gee.....why would an Italian university try to disprove the medieval dating? Hmmmmm....
I'll believe this when more third parties confirm the results till then shut up religicuck
>>70009751
why do you overlook the fact nobody has ever been able to reproduce the image in the same way it appears on this shroud?
>>70009330
It hasn't only happened just now. The Ottoman empire raided and ensalved europeans for centuries. A big difference then was that the church nor nation states put much stock in "turning the other cheek" because common sense dictated that it would be suicidal. They only followed his teachings as long as it was in their best interrests to do so.
If you go full on Jesus mode, prepare to be stepped on.
>>69999137
I've been to Jerusalem. The whole town is set up around places that Jesus did things.... touch the stone here and there, etc. None of it is meant to be literal, and no one with half a brain thinks these places and objects were touched by Jesus. Even the guide admitted it was all symbolic.
The whole Jesus thing is a myth. And for that matter, the entire notion of spirituality is also. However, there are things known and things unknown about the universe. Those things that are unknown - you don't have a fucking clue about, so shut the fuck up and get on with your life without poisoning children with your bullshit.
>>70009478
(((Triggering intensifies)))
Maybe try rewriting that in a human readable format.
>>70009459
Rome killed christians until they adopted the religion due to it's spread throughout the people. Something else would have taken that place without christ, most likely the religion that the common people were drawn to. The pharisees took a liberal stance on religion like christ. Rome just took whatever religion the people were following and nationalized it.
>>70000832
Not even a Christfag, but carbon dating is wildly inaccurate and broad.
>>70002133
why would you think that unless jesus can use lazer beams so he can direct this enourmous power to the door rock instead of blowing the shit out of everythng around him?
>>70010458
Wasn't a serious answer. Looks more like the energy just went straight up, from looking at the shroud.
>>70002272
>34 FUCKING GIGAWATTS
read it again, its actually terawatts
isnt it fun when christcucks want to sound impressive with big numbers?
>2013
not news
>>69999137
If you have to resort to some rug to prove that your god is real, then your god clearly doesn't what you to acknowledge his existence.
>>70010171
Pharisees getting to Rome by properly instructing Hellenized Jews post-diaspora, taking the same routes that Christianity did?
....I guess I could believe it. It's an interesting prospect to consider. Good on you. Not sure if it would've happened, just because of how averse fucking Jews were (and are) to accepting non-blooded goyim converts, but who knows?
>>69999137
Jews BTFO
>>70010711
*want you
The shroud on turin is pretty interesting because nobody has an idea of how it was actually made.
If it was made during middle ages, then atheists get BTFO since these evil christians were so technologically backwards they stopped societal progress for hundreds of years.
If it was made during era of christ, atheists still BTFO.
I'm an atheist btw, but i just hate the degenerate atheist ones that say christianity is bad.
>>70010595
>energy just went straight up
energy doesnt do that on its own.
btw i really dont think you know whow much energy is 34 terawatts its more than humanity uses up in whole 2 years on average, its like 200+ hiroshima bombs going off in one place at the same time. i know that you idiots want to sound smart with big numbers but it just doesnt work like that
>Religious fags still desperately struggling to defend their stoopid religion
>Western society still sinking
>>70010804
It was made in the 20th century.
>>70010711
You would think that a faith-based religion wouldn't need to prove itself - it should operate sufficiently on faith, and interpret challenges (like this) to its faith as instruments of heretics and Morgoth.
But a motherfucker always wants to chokeslam science for scoring so many points as we cruise through the modern age.
>>69999137
>300 BC and 400 AD, which would put it in the era of Christ
700 years is a huge fucking timeline when you're dealing with a guy who lived to be 30ish
>>70010921
just like your DNA?
only a millennial could say anything this utterly stupid
>>70010804
That's because they don't let actual unbiased people test it.
>W-w-we totally just d-don't want anyone to r-ruin, we swear!.
Send it to a museum or univerrsity, then.
>>70010713
Like I said, the pharisees were liberal. I could see them corrupting the goyim with a version of their own beliefs made for goyim. Maybe not even the pharisees, maybe a mutation made by non jews due to the vacuum. Can't do more than speculate one way or the other.
>>70009912
But it has been replicated using techniques available in the Medieval period. It's a hoax Yeah, the most important relic found....suddenly turns up precisely during the relic-mania that seized the European tourism industry of the times. DOH
>>70011056
You are a moron if you believe this colored rug is the result of something divine.
Christian leaders spend millions of dollars on stuff like this and creationist websites so that their business doesn't fall apart.
>>69999947
>That jesus is real
great can you show me his tax records?
or anything about his outside the gospels during the time he was supposedly living?
>>70011260
>so that their business doesn't fall apart.
it's time to tax churches
it's like any other business
Besides....Mom why does god look like Charlemagne???????
>>70011291
In my opinion, jesus could be real, and he could have done the miracles he did, but to believe in those miracles, you ahve to believe other monumental figures who have a lot of evidence
this leads me to believe that you can ascend to that level, I just don't think that it's currently possible
I think it has to do kind of with the hermetic schools; and I think hermees is a better teacher than jesus, although jesus has the best allegories, which are very important for spirituality, because they demand of you to assign your own meaning, and it is the very assigning of meaning itself, that is the essence of spirituality
>>69999137
>pope introduces it
>tested by an Italian (a strictly Catholic nation) university
>yep previous tests where wrong this bit of cloth proves the existence of God
My money is on that these scientists where promised their children would remain unfiddled if their results supported the pope
>>69999137
Sweet when can we crusade against fedora tippers and mudslimes.
>>70011381
I couldn't agree more. I came across an interesting fact: most of the richest people in Africa are Christian leaders. That makes me wonder if they even believe in the Bible.
>>70011525
Which Pope? Several of them admitted the shroud was a hoax.
>>70011291
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
>There is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically,[3][6][7][nb 1][nb 2][nb 3][nb 4]
>While scholars have sometimes criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness,[nb 7] with very few exceptions, such critics do support the historicity of Jesus, and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed.[16][nb 8][18][19][20]
>>69999137
HOLY FUCK
FEDORAS BTFO
CHEETO BAGS SPILLED
ATHIESTS SHAKING THEIR FISTS IN THEIR BASEMENTS AS WE SPEAK
ATHIESM COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY
BLOWN
THE
FUCK
OUTTTTTTTTTT
>>69999137
>using the same fibers as the last test
>the fibers are from a patch job done in the middle ages to upkeep the whole cloth
are people this fucking retarded?
>>70011398
>Why do people look like other people?
This is a bad argument. You should be able to find better.
>>69999137
Yeah because I'll believe anything the Church has to say. I can't believe so many people have been duped by a religion who's origin can be traced to a specific timeframe in recorded history. When you really look at Christianity, it's a religion founded on and revolving around fear, whether that fear be sinning (going against the "word of God" aka the church) or the fear of being denied paradise and going to Hell (So be a good little goyim and follow all the rules we- I mean God has told you).
>>70001138
>man claims to be god
>followers believe him because free food and fame
>man is killed by authorities for being a pain in the ass
>"Whoops! Better start making shit up, or it's back to the fishing boats for us!"
2,000 years later...
>retards still trust bullshit stories made up by devious cunts
You can't make this shit up! (well, you can...and most Americans would believe you)
>>70011525
>a strictly Catholic nation
As opposed to the UK which is a strictly islamic nation? The tests were made in collaboration with the london university, i'm not sure why op's link doesn't mention it
It's "were" by the way, not "where"
Atheists on suicide watch
(Which is basically always the case)
>>69999137
This place is not christian. Why bring christ here in vain...?
>>70012238
This thread has pretty manfully deconstructed the OP.
Bounce, nigger.
>>69999137
Glory to Jesus.
I believe in God. The only proof you need is to look at modern atheists. They are the saddest, fattest, ugliest creeps you have ever seen. I have never seen a militant atheist that wasn't a fat bag of useless shit, or a limp wristed faggot. Thanks for making it easy god.
>>70000768
Uh, no serious scholars dispute the existence of Jesus. Numerous non-Christian sources detail his existence and what his earliest followers believed. Whether he was resurected can certainly be debated, but whether he existed is not really debatable.
>>70011922
Hmmmm....pretty weak reasoning skills you have there. The fact that the hoaxer picked a statue with remarkable similarity to Charlemagne actually supports the Medieval dating. Charlemagne was the first Holy Roman Emperor, directly sanctioned by the Catholic Church. A dirt-poor Palestinian Jew shouldn't have a Medieval Frankish king's features, bubba. It's too cute, too stylized.
>>70012517
(you)
>>70012517
welcome -kek
>>70012711
check em btw
>>70012517
And with believers like you the church is swimming in money
>>70012593
They look as similar to each other as they do to me. I'm just saying the argument is worthless on it's own.
>>70012695
I can't hear you with my dick in your mouth
>>70012845
Sure bubba. Put some super glue on your fingertips next time. Then stick them in your ears
>>70000466
Fake sense of propriety and fear of blasphemy. They call God "The Name" so they don't accidentally pronounce His name incorrectly.
A name they don't know how to pronounce.
>>69999137
2016 still believing in fairytales
>>70012852
oh wow thats some advanced todler shit, next thing youre gonna tell me youre fucking my mom too
>>70000384
I agree it must be deleted in the name of muhammad(pbuh)
>>70002025
Well, you can, but then you're talking about the rate of power ramping up or down.
On a somewhat related note: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_%28physics%29
>>70011196
yah but NO it has NOT ever been replicated.. post what you have taken as "proof" A you can not and B whatever you post is most definitely not exactly the same in all observable parameters.
>Italian """""scientists"""""
Yes let's believe the only catholics on earth that are more hardcore than mexicans
I'm a catholicfag too so you can leave that fedora untipped
>>69999137
>science exists
>atheists can't disprove Jesus
>religious figures & scientists have extensive proof of events in the bible
Fedora tippers BTFO
>>70012975
Ok then.
*tips fedora*
>>70013069
>OMG guys, it's the CURRENT YEAR!!!
>>70013435
Excellent argument Kikecuck.
>>70001634
but its also right for Jews to not charge interest to themselves?
Which is it?
>>70013795
This is why mass genociding theists and enforcing anti-theism is the way to go for humanity.
>>70011398
>implying there isn't a clear history of charlemagne
>>70011525
>he needs proof
>for god
nigga you fell for the meme. I'm sure as a child, you were full of awe at existence, and simply through certain orders of words (because when it comes down to it, science is just a bunch of vocabulary words) you became convinced that existence isn't special?
only dumb autists try to argue against the "god is a bearded man in the sky," most REAL arguments about god are that god is the word for the all
I mean, consider the following: To each individual cell in your body, YOU are god
they each have a life, and concievably some form of electric current passes trhough them created by them, so maybe they even have some form of thought, who knows
you are made up of trillions of them
trillions of them are born, and die, while you continue
you are a being, with a different dimension of existence, who they live through, you have a different dimension of consiousness
these are all ways which we, describe the word which is assigned to this idea, God.
>>70013283
>believing italians are more catholic than mexicans
you must not know either.
>>70013069
God is the word ascribed to the all. The properties the universe contains. You either must believe in God, or you must believe in infinite universes hypothesis. Because, the chances that DNA formed here, are so low. The chances that the physics are correct for life, again, so low, they are tweaked perfectly. But, we do exist. The chances that we exist in a universe that allows us to exist through it's laws? 100%. So you must either believe that there are infinite universes parralele, or before and after, ours, or you must believe that There is a phenomenon which can't be explained to our puny human minds, that is the ultimate cause, and ultimate effect
protip: I'm not religious
*tips theurgical cap*
>>70000466
It's the Joos, no really, he is a Jew
>>70014101
>This is why mass genociding theists and enforcing anti-theism is the way to go for humanity.
I just want the death of people who force their indigenous religion on other foreign people.
The only people I know who do this are Jews and their decedents, Christians and Muslims.
>>70013259
Do your own fucking research. It's been convincingly replicated multiple times. National fucking Geographic can be your friend, god-eater.
>>70012845
Problem is, it was a nested series of arguments. The totality of evidence is: hoax. It's fucking fake. Whether you think it proves your fairy tales true in the context of your own mind is of no interest to me so long as you confine it behind your lips. I don't care if you eat gods on weekends, nor do I care a jot which ones you eat, how well they are done, etc. You're free to be a god-eater magic wish person.
>>70010909
Hello subversive Jew proxy, truth will triumph!
>>70014127
Transpermia......not a new argument
>>70014354
I have done extensive research thus my clear and convinced affirmation the Shroud of Turin in the authentic burial shroud of Jesus Christ who rose from the Dead proving he is God.
>>70014766
>thus my clear and convinced affirmation the Shroud of Turin in the authentic burial shroud of Jesus Christ who rose from the Dead proving he is God.
>believes in Jewish fables
>not a Jew
Yup, you're cucked.
>>70012197
Can't make it up. Makes shit up.
>>70011507
Holy shit the Pentagon is actually on Saturn? How could the plane have hit it on 9/11 if it's on Saturn?
>>70011196
>most important relic found
Yeah...no
>>70012197
lol fuck you fedora faggot. Maybe your environment made you guys way too cynical to start believing your baseless, shitty rants.
>>70014354
>I can't back up my claims with evidence
FTFY
>>70014731
all transpermia as a theory is is that other life formed somewhere else in the universe and was sent here
the physical laws of the universe still have to be tweaked perfectly for molecules to form, atoms to form, even protons neutrons electrons to form at their specific charges and weights
the fact is, if the universe's laws were tweaked even a little bit, there wouldn't be planets, there wouldn't be stars. do you get that? or are you just going to try to be sarcastically disattached and think it makes you sound like le ebin winner?
>>69999137
There is no god but Kek.
>>70006334
>http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/relics/shroud-of-turin/
I don't care if you believe the shroud is real or not; that is a garbage link my friend.
>>70015246
people who refuse to believe in the possibility of God are electricity doesn't exist tier
Only idiots believe that the lack of scientific proof in something is scientific proof that it doesn't exist. This is neither how science nor logic has gotten us this far, and furthermore, they would be living in mud huts if every person ever thought like them, seeing as there is never proof for anything, until it is proven, and even once it is "proven," it's never actually proven. it is only a repeatable concept.
>>70007100
What about the LA county medical examiner, the dirt samples, the 3D imaging... etc.
Occam's Razor... I'm sorry but the path of least explanation indicates it came from someone very proximal in both space in time to Christ and his death or Christ himself.
>>70015246
So you know about Malachy. Good.
Young people have started prophetizing too.
2nd coming seems to be almost tangible.
What do you think about all this?
I don't know if I should be happy about it or just shit my pants.
>>70008580
The Catholic Church has been dead since the Protestant Reformation, more or less. That is in terms of spiritual leadership from the Vatican. The thing is, the Church itself is not dependent on the Vatican, there are many enlightened and deeply spiritual Catholics. The power structure though? Oh yeah it's been fucked for a bit mate.
>>70015752
the second coming is the holy grail of /pol/. its the ultimate happening. and then at the end of the 7 year war, we can finally put the tippers to bed.
>>70016075
>the second coming is the holy grail of /pol/. its the ultimate happening. and then at the end of the 7 year war, we can finally put the tippers to bed.
How about you hold your breath while you wait for it?
>>70006387
Because our souls are small particles of that Whole and Indescribable, and it is the source where our souls originate and so the mission of every soul is to go back to it, if it strays in worldly pleasures it brings punishment upon itself (in this instance its body&mind).
>>70005290
see, you say that
but the ashkenazi are not using those reasons
>getting butthurt because this argues against your belief
>not getting happy because it may prove your depressing belief wrong
I'm an agnostic faggot but I want to believe so much. I want there to be something more. Seeing shit like this makes me happy in the fact that there may be something beyond life. Do you actually want there to be nothing but your brain stopping?
>>70016234
embrace and want the happening, anon. its why were all here.
>>70015666
Get out Satan, Occam's Razor would dictate that it's a hoax because that's a lot simpler than it being the cloth that wrapped the Nazarene's bloody pre-resurrection corpse
It's very telling that only in Christianity threads do the fedoras come in arms. It's all the same shit, too. Sky daddy, magic wizard, etc. trying to be as condescending as possible.
What did Christians ever do to you? Literally nothing. Highly doubt you even ever had someone knock on your door. Meanwhile Muslims are out butchering people and I don't see you fedoras upset about that.
Maybe it's time to admit you just never grew out of that rebellious edgy teenage phase.
>>70016409
People here are butthurt over the fact there are Europeans devoting their life while ruing Europe over a foreign Jewish myth.
You're not kikes, it's their religion, not yours. Your people had their own religion until the Jews spread it to European kings and told them, "this is how you rule them and force them to love being slaves!" "Give them this story and you can tax them and stop them from being barbarians!" "We can help you run your bank because you're going to need it from all the shekels you will earn!"
>>70016409
Sometimes I do.
I imagine even if I were in heaven I couldn't be happy because I can't forgive myself for my sins.
Other people forgive me and laugh it off but I never forgive myself.
Catholic for life.
>>69999137
Christians. (Not Catholics, you believe whatever you want. We all know how much you love holy relics.)
The Shroud of Turin is a known fake, and a forgery.
Here is the truth, from the bible:
John 20
Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself.
The linens were still shaped as though wrapped around Jesus' body. As though Jesus just disappeared from out of them.
And the quite separate wrappings over Jesus' head were separate, and folded, away from the linen strips of cloth used to cover His body.
The Shroud of Turin hit many bible verses on the head, but missed this most obvious one.
There was no one piece linen cloth covering Jesus' body and head.
>>70016687
>What did Christians ever do to you? Literally nothing.
The only reason fedoras exist is because their parents wanted to take them to church with the family but they wanted to stay home to play video games instead.
>>70016772
Yup. A sinner bound to his own sin, refusing the forgiveness that has already been given to him, and pretending his standards are higher than God's.
You are the very picture of the lost pagan.
>>70001564
>miles per hour is a measurement of distance
>>70016409
Of course he wants nothingness. He's a faggot.
Faggots go to hell.
>>70016624
I never said it was necessarily Christ's image on the cloth. Just that most likely, with the data we can obtain, we certainly cannot rule it out even after narrowing down all of the possible origins of the cloth.
That is all.
>>70017028
Everyone going to hell wishes for nothingness.
>>70017043
We can rule it out according to the Gospel of John.
>>69999531
Jesus absolutely did exist. No credible historian disputes this fact. He is talked about by non-Christian sources like Tactus and Josephus. Whether or not you believe He is God is another story.
>>70008402
Highly underrated kek
>>70014589
Prove that it's a hoax then. Hasn't actually been done because it can't. Your argument remains trash. Believe what you want.
>>70016850
how much truth to this? Do we have any burial ritual techniques from this era that can confirm the possibility of there having been a single Whole piece of cloth covering Jesus' body? could, perhaps a handkerchief been over his eyes, and then the turin cloth wrapped over the whole of him?
>>70017149
Oh really? Perhaps they had placed a face cover over him, and then wrapped him in the shroud which covered his entire body and head? How is that ruled out?
>>70017316
Ignore this, misread your post. We have other arguments for His divinity. We don't need the shroud for our evidence but it would be icing on the cake.
>>69999137
>Shroud of Turin
WHY DO CHRISTIANS LIE?
WHY DO THEY FABRICATE EVIDENCE?
I DONT FUCKING UNDERSTAND. If you want to pray, PRAY, but stop spreading LIES
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin#Radiocarbon_dating
THERE IS NO PROOF IT IS AUTHENTIC YOU THICK HEADED FUCKS
>>70017316
>No credible historian disputes this fact.
they should
history is nebulous at best and most of it has about as much credence as the contents of the DSMIV
>>70001564
you're retarded, anon
>>70017598
Watch the OP video you queer.
There are enough conflicting RC results to throw that out entirely, if you will, but if you wish to cling to your EXTRA SPECIAL radiocarbon results, be my guest. That is, of course, despite the fact that those tests were done in 1988 compared with more recent tests taken 25 years later with better methods and technology....
Jesus, like Diogenes, had experienced Satori (not the modern bullshit kind, the old zen masters kind.. realising the "unborn" "ineffable" "tao" or "original face."
Those who lack understanding have to explain away the statement to his disciples that some of them would see the kingdom of heaven within their lifetimes. I've no doubt they did. But the kingdom of heaven was never meant to be an earthly kingdom... i mean do you think the "new jerusalem" a golden cube.. is going to literally descend from the sky as well?
Like many saints he had such a strong realisation of the presence & immanance of this "other" that he was able to speak truly "i am" and discard his life while still praying for his executioners on the cross. John Huss-like performances were the modern equivalent.
The "second coming" crap is the product of the baser sort of theologian. Men who, lacking direct experience, feel fit to theorize, extemporise and systematise regarding the divine. They invented the second coming nonsense because they had to9. Not too many ways around a messiah who only fulfills (in their little minds) 1/2 the prophecies and talked openly about the fact some of his followers would see the kingdom of heaven (leater expanded to the "son of man descending in the air..")
t. religious mystic
>>70017598
>WHY DO CHRISTIANS LIE?
It's the only way to rationalize a nonsensical Jewish myth for Europeans.
You have to deny reality and lie about the religion and lie to yourself to be a follower.
>>70017604
They can dispute it all they want, all the evidence points in the other direction though. Why not dispute all other figures in antiquity that we have less evidence of?
