Why are Libertarians so delusional?
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Why are Libertarians so delusional?
they don't believe in race
therefore they will never accomplish anything
>>69976210
yeah whats up with that wanting rights and freedoms and shit. they should live how some authoritarian populist says they should live and not get to live how they want, right?
>authority is a bad thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYKPdNvH800
REEEEEEEEEEE
I better start hating libertarians or /pol/ won't like me anymore.
>>69976259
>they don't believe in race
[citation needed)
>>69976210
They have rich parents
>>69976210
better cut my penis off, wouldn't want an STD!
>>69976259
>thinks he's inherently much better than blacks, mexicans, etc etc
>but is terrified of competing with them in the free market
>demands government protections against them, deportations, wage supports, etc
I've never understood this.
what's the difference between ibertarians and anarchists?
>>69976776
They like small, near-ineffectual governments as opposed to no government whatsoever.
>>69976608
>would rather live in a cage than protect domestic wages
Libertarians aren't just regular cucks they're ultra cucks
>>69976608
>implying this isn't how it happened for the blacks and hispanics
How delusional can you get?
>>69976776
libertarians are in denial that they want to destroy the west and kill all white people
anarchists are overt about it.
>>69976386
they are all open borders, and think libertarianism will work in a multicultural society
>>69976894
libertarian paradise
>>69976608
thakns for proving my point
>>69976998
glorious free market
>>69976894
your product is labor. If someone else is willing to sell that product way below what you're willing to sell it at, then you need to either cut your price or make your product valuable enough that it's worth the extra money. Or go out of business.
it was ever thus, trying to fight against economic reality is throwing good money after bad. You just don't like that you actually have to compete against someone instead of having things handed to you.
>>69977021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w
>>69977079
>goy you need to live like a Chinese serf it's good for the economy [shekel rubbing intensifies]
>>69977079
no, you retarded autist, I'm a person
with a culture
a heritage
I'm not a cog in a machine for rich assholes
>>69976960
that's a bit different than not believing in race
and no, people wouldn't be forced to associate with people they don't like.
>>69976608
Literally this, it's the government protecting them from us. Imagine I'm conceal carrying my ultra mega death machine 3000. Wearing Carls Jr™ kevlar and plates. He shoots me with his hi-point and I turn around and mow him down. Then I take all his assets because they were forfeit when he violated his contract to our society.
>I casually stroll down the dirt road. With my new items I can barter later.
>>69976210
Cuz they be trippin!
>>69977161
that guy looks white
>>69977194
if you think brown people will magically start liking liberty if you import all of them into America, you basically don't believe in race
>chinks are people
>hong kong is a nice place to live
>they need more CBT and goosestepping in their lives like the mainlanders
big zozzles good buddy
>>69977164
>I'm white, how dare you give that job to some Mexican willing to work for less than me?! I deserve it more!
>I black, how dare you not gimme dat welfare check? I deserve it more!
you're the same person.
>This man was completely serious and using this as an excuse to why he is not a degenerate for being gay
>>69977255
Maybe an asian guy got so rich his privilege magic turned him white.
>>69977079
Yes goyim you must live like an Vietnamese peasant to serve the almighty job creator and obey the free market God!
Fuck libertarians, they're all a cancer
>>69976210
Yeah, what kind of delusional retards value liberty? They should want a strong leader with a good brain who will protect le white race :^)
>>69977293
lolbetarians everyone
what are you going to do when brown people vote in more gibs once you import all of them?
ok, this one really made me laugh. now I have to collect sneks gorramit.
post your gadsdens, /pol. I have a new folder I have to backfill
>>69977424
I'm only for open borders if there is no welfare state to speak of. As is, I think cracking down on illegal immigration is a good idea.
>>69977293
You're probablt 15 or never worked a job in our life.
If you had your way we'd be paying imported Asian fruit pickers $2 an hour or an imported Indian engineer 30k a year.
Try competing with that.
>>69977207
Underrated
Libertarians are worthless without Socialists.
That would be the GOAT combination for the two party system.
Imagine! A party dedicated to reducing government and protecting personal liberties against a party dedicated to growing to government and protecting people.
Fools on /pol/ pretend that Libertarians/Socialists in government would exisit by themselves in some kind of political vaccum and bar some kind of massive upheaval that's impossible.
Lib/Social would be much better than the current system, with two parties who are only concerned with blaming each other for the issues they're too incompetent and corrupt to produce any meaningful leadership on.
The best part is that with the rise of Sanders and the collapse of the Republican Party the chances that this comes to pass get a little bit better every day.
>>69977424
well the whites in this country already voted in over a trillion dollars a year of gibs, I don't think beaners could do a whole lot worse.
>>69977554
a.) wrong, 29
b.) also wrong. someone hired me and paid me good money because I'm not useless. funny how that works
>>69977338
God pickles was such a faggot. I was almost level 80 but once I saw him spewing his liberal propaganda I decided there was no way I was putting up with that shit and since there wasn't a single other english guild on that god awful server I just quit. Never again will I be shilled into playing on yet another shitty wrath kiddy realm.
Also
>lol nothing is real everything doesn't matter existentialism xDDDD
>anime avatar
>bernie supporter
holy shit looks like I dodged a bullet
>>69977164
>I-I'm not a cog in a machine for r-rich assholes
>>69977535
the mexicans will still come, out produce you because they didn't evolve in a cold climate where having less children and spending more time raising them was necessary
>>69976210
Why are socialists all shitposters? Does it have something to do with their lack of logical arguments?
>>69977605
Good point. Upboated
>>69977631
When your company replaces you with a h1b what are you gonna say then?
You're not good enough to not be replaced - they could hire 3 indian guys to do your job better than you at the same salary.
Don't get mad; its the free market :)
>>69976608
This is why trumpfags hate libertarians and candidates like Cruz. They need big government to hold their hand and keep them safe from the evil negro.
>>69977605
socialist/libertarians are 2 sides of the same coin
they both want a worldwide society where everyone is competing for scraps at the bottom where cultures have been wiped out in favor of a single uni culture
>>69977631
>I don't think beaners could do a whole lot worse.
Have you seen Latin America?
God you're fucking retarded
>>69977711
too many 1 dollar donations make you go cray cray.
>>69977631
yes because white people like helping other white people
if you don't protect your borders, then brown people will come in and crash the wellfare system
>>69977691
>If you don't want to be raped by billionaires you're a loser
This is how anyone can tell that Ayn Rand was a total kike
>>69977766
Oh dear, you mean I might have to actually learn new and more valuable skills to keep myself competitive in the labor market? The horror. I suppose no white man should be subjected to such awful things. I suppose I'll manage somehow.
>>69977605
Except the socialists would try to purge the libertarians when their guard is down.
>>69977872
easily solved. Don't have a welfare system.
>>69977880
>Not becoming the billionaire
It's almost as if people hate the rich because they can't be them.
>>69977965
>niggers come in
>vote for welfare system
>>69977965
that's not going to happen
this is why lolbertarians never win. they are austistic and can't convince anyone of anything
>>69977605
I missed the part where you justified taxation
>>69977997
there's more to life than money, son
>>69977997
only a tiny minority of people can every become billionaire you stupid fuck
What happens to the rest of the economy when they have monopolies on everything?
You turn into Mexico where it costs $100 to send a text message thanks to the kikes that own the telecom industry.
>>69977880
I'm not a big fan of greed or collusion either but saying you're opposed to something doesn't mean it isn't happening.
>>69977804
shit man, I registered as Libertarian because the current two parties are slightly different shades of cancer and the Green Party is are even bigger joke then the Libertarians.
If some idiot gets off his ass and starts the alt-right pepe party I'd go throw in with them.
Anything but the current party system.
>>69978046
You want gibs just as badly as they do, don't you
>>69977886
Working for a third of the salary to compete with foreigners is not a skill.
Whatever brah, enjoy being stomped on by corporate America.
>>69976608
>>69977079
>>69977293
>>69977631
>>69977886
I considered myself libertarian until I saw your posts. Your sole focus of values resting on money gave me some perspective on the need to preserve the ones that give life meaning. Thanks.
>>69978046
you're the one pretending libertarians do not have a solution
when in reality their solution btfo you so hard you resort to non arguments
Question:
Why doesn't someone run for president and claim clearly that they want to be absolute dictator and enslave everyone to government and corporations?
Mostly as a experiment (but if you actually manage to get elected, props to you)
>>69978091
monopolies exist mostly because of governments, tho.
>>69978180
Sounds like a Huffpost description of Donnie desu
>>69978094
>I'm not a big fan of greed or collusion either
Then you aren't a libertarian
>>69978195
monopolies exist because the wealthy can rent seek once they own land/industry
Do you want to be a feudal serf paying your tithes to the aristocracy like your great great grandparents?
The whole point of capitalism was to end the feudal monarchy, but libertarians want to bring it back.
>>69976210
I like Libertarianism. Just a more nationalist Libertarianism. These guys are all so globalist they're practically Democrats.
>>69978343
Nah, no doublespeak or other stuff.
Just outspoken stuff, clear as a day, even a nig/hick could understand it.
>>69978384
isn't rent-seeking only possible because of the government?
I mean, by definition.
>>69977935
libs would be the gun toting faction though. Harder to purge.
>>69978122
enjoy being made poorer by protectionism raising the cost of living more than it raises your wages
>>69978166
money is just how you measure the value of a commodity. Don't kid yourself, labor is a commodity, there's no inherent value in it. And employers don't care about your life any more than you care about the shareholders. Why would it be different?
enjoy your self-reflection.
>>69978384
>>monopolies exist because the wealthy can rent seek once they own land/industry
And how do they do that? By lobbying the government to protect them from competition. Monopolies show up when the government does that and raises the barrier to entry in an industry by regulations, protectionism, etc.
you have to let capitalism work to have its benefits.
>>69978464
Land monopolies exist because land owners exist.
>>69978485
>By lobbying the government
You don't need to lobby the government for shit if you have a land monopoly.
Fucks sake physiocrats realized this 250 year ago and you retarded libertarians can't even figure it out now.
>>69978091
The point is the state is terrible at measuring the worth of an individual, the free market is very good. If you have the ability you will succeed in the market, if you have the ability you won't necessarily succeed if the state has its way.
>>69978478
True, but I think a Libertarian vs Democrat style party would be better. The democrats are not full on socialists even if they are trending that way recently. So a statist vs non statist spectrum.
>>69978645
>Doesn't understand how land monopolies come about.
>>69978712
democratic-socialism then? So is that a oxymoron?
>>69978712
>the free market is very good
It's very good at letting monopolists rape the economy to death.
>>69978764
>I don't understand that owning land inherently gives you a monopoly
fucking libertarians
>>69978821
yes. People like Bernie Sanders are pro democracy insofar as it lets them control other people.
I am surprised someone like Sanders is doing so well to be honest. America has no historically been home to many socialists, what happened?
>>69978645
okay, but that's not rent-seeking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking
anyway, most monopolies are govt backed and sustained.
Monopolies in a free-market are kinda unusual, but when they happen, they happened beause the producer managed to win over all the consumers by providing the best product. You don't want competition for the sake of competition, you want competition for the sake of efficiency. The purpose of the free-market is to eliminate inefficiency.
>>69978826
I'm not following man, who do you want to own the land?
>>69978645
so just to be clear
you are AGAINST monopolies yes?
and what is your particular political ideology
>>69978826
have you seen how much fucking land there is to go around, anon? Especially here in America, there's tons of it. If you want *his* land, not just *any* land, why don't you make him an offer for it? Nothing stopping people from buying and selling the stuff.
>>69978901
The boomers were really hostile to socialism because of the cold war. Millenials that grew up after the wall fell and the Soviet Union crumbled don't feel that instinctive aversion to it. Hence why Sanders' base is among the young.
>>69978909
It's literally rent seeking
>>69978952
There needs to be high taxes on land ownership in order to payback the middle class.
That's how the US used to work before "libertarians" took over
>>69978968
I believe in the old US economy before libertarian faggots took over.
Protectionism and Land taxation.
http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Protectionist-Takeoff-1815-1914-Michael/dp/3980846687
>>69979092
Why do the middle class deserve to be payed back? According to what measure have they earned it?
Stop looking to the government for handouts, you want something go out and earn it.
>>69979092
>>That's how the US used to work before "libertarians" took over
Libertarians never took over, anon. The Dems and the GOP are both big-government, tax-and-spend parties that love to meddle in the economy and your lives. They just differ in what their priorities for that taxing, spending, and meddling.
>>69979036
wow you're retarded
no anon there is no magical place where no one owns land anymore it was all monopolized a long time ago.
>>69978901
the republicans and democrats only differ on the groups they want to repress.
Americans start to wise up that the game is rigged, and flock to Trump and Sanders because they promise something that isn't centrism for the sake of crony-capitalists, the military or the government itself.
>>69979092
>Current year
>Believes in protectionism
Did you take economics101 anon?
>>69979166
Common goods aren't handouts, they're what keeps us from becoming Somalia
>>69979208
I bet you think that putting tax tarrifs on Chinese-made goods is a terrible idea
>>69979197
I'm surprised the electorate doesn't realize that Trump and Sanders are selling the same snake oil. Protectionism and blaming someone else (Sanders: the rich, Trump: Mexicans) for all the country's woes, and promising that if you only give them power, they'll fix it for you.
The solution is to take power *away* from the government, but no politician likes that idea, because then they wouldn't get to run your life.
>>69979166
>Why do the middle class deserve to be payed back?
welcome to feudalism then
eliminating rent seeking was the only thing that got us out of the days of aristocracy and you want to bring it back.
Have fun working for your billionaire slave master you retarded libertarians.
>>69979172
>>69979208
enjoy competing with east asian slave labor you dumb libertarian cuck
I hope you get to live in a nice cozy mesh cage
>>69979172
libertarians are the ones who brought back rent seeking by lowering property taxes and income taxes on the billionaires
They literally wanted a second monarchy (and they got it) Just read anything Ayn Rand ever wrote. She would let society die if it meant she had to pay a shekel in taxes.
>>69979317
That's because it is a terrible idea. Trade drives down the cost of living much faster than it drives down wages. Lower-middle-class Americans have things like TVs, refrigerators, air conditioning, off-the-rack clothing, cell phones, and much else that would once have been luxuries for the rich. It happened because of trade.
King, lord or corporate owner is all fine with me.
As long as we do away with this stupid "democracy" shit.
Thread theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcUZrDX5P7A
>>69979345
You realize wall street is raping us in the ass right?
And corporations are inviting in millions of low wage workers while exporting jobs to China.
Are you just going to blame all of that on the government when it's clearly corporate and government collusion?
>>69979440
>Trade drives down the cost of living
The cost of living is going up in the US you literal fucking moron
>>69979369
>Is terrified of monopoly
>puts his faith in the biggest monopoly there is
>Doesn't understand that taxation is theft
>Libertarians
I wish there was a good way to splice "cuck" into libertarian.
>>69979529
Dude are you just memeing at this point
>>69979529
>we live in a fantasy land where government can magically be poofed away
oh to be as autistic as an ancap
>>69979505
>The cost of living is going up in the US
>Therefore trade must not keep down the cost of living
Not an argument.
>>69979468
>I priced myself out of the labor market, and it's someone else's fault
>I chose to take on a bunch of debt, but it's not my fault, those Wall Street jews made me take those loans!
>>69979540
the reason you can't is because you're the cuck :^)
>>69979569
The size and influence of government can certainly be drastically reduced.
>>69979603
Trade has undeniably been globally expanded in the past two decades and the US leads the world in global trade. WTF are you talking about.
>>69979603
free trade exports jobs which mean people have to go on welfare to live
You can either have cheap imports made by Chinese slave labor or people with jobs in your country.
I know what libertarians will choose.
>>69979647
>I don't want to live in a cage
>welp that's my fault for wanting a standard of living above a rabid dog
fucking libertarian cucks
>>69979647
>>69979684
>X has increased, Y has increased
>Increasing Y doesn't limit increases in X
doesn't follow.
>>69979665
Most our current public debt is due to bailing out wallstreet the very same giant financial corporations that you cuck for.
>>69976210
The entire Libertarian "movement" (including the retarded Tea Party) is owned by the Koch brothers.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/35472-there-s-a-vast-right-wing-conspiracy-afoot-fueled-by-dark-money
There are idiots on /pol/ who will defend this.
>>69979806
Prove your claim or gtfo
>>69979822
In a truely free market there would be no government with the means to bailout.
>>69979822
It's all about that non-Northern European population % increase
>>69979824
I'm glad that the Koch Brothets and George Soros agreed to secretly run American politics together.
>>69979824
>Successful people don't have the right to spend money on causes they believe in
Why?
>>69979751
Well if you want more than that, work for it, instead of making the government take money from someone else and give it to you.
>>69979688
a.) making 1.5x the wages is a pay cut if the cost of living doubles.
b.) that's a problem of it being too expensive and burdensome to employ people, thanks to strict labor laws.
>>69979766
>I don't have an argument, lets post memes
>>69979892
In a "free market" those banks wouldn't exist in the first place. Most of us would be living in caves.
>>69979922
>like clockwork...
>>69979929
>like clockwork
>>69979979
>The state is responsible for order
When will this meme end?
>>69979824
All the more reasons to support it then
>>69979932
>work for it,
You can't "work for it" when you are competing with chinese slave labor retard
>thanks to strict labor laws.
>we should be paying people EVEN less with longer hours
kek you people are bloodthirsty at this point.
You have the attitude of the European Aristocracy during feudalism, work harder so you can pay more in taxes, I don't care if it kills you. You don't deserve a decent standard of living because "muh free market" demands otherwise.
>>69980059
>like clockwork
>>69976608
>Others bred irresponsibly and now can't afford to have any self respect or standards at work since there's so god damned many of them and none of them have any advanced skills
>But you should have to compete with them on equal footing because I worship the dollar
No, free market is bullshit. Globalism and the free movement of labor, all bullshit. Labor costs are a supply and demand issue like anything else, the only reason it's so lucrative to outsource is because these people come from failed states and will work like slaves. Competition between products and services is well and good but if you open the floodgates to just anyone you'll find that the global equilibrium is far below the quality of life we're used to. "Competition" with the Chinese and Mexicans is just a way to suck that money up into the hands of a few wealthy corporations that own the majority of the economy at the expense of the middle class.
>>69980061
>like clockwork
>>69979824
>>69980096
/thread
>>69980059
groups without standardized law and government and just tribals
Libertarians literally want us to go back to being worthless niggers.
>>69980071
You are the retard. Part of the reason companies don't set up shop in first world nations is the industrial relations and labor laws in place in those nations. If you cut regulation that problem will be reduced.
>>69977535
>for open borders
>ever
Fucking moron.
>>69980008
>>69980038
>>69980092
>>69980105
LOOK MOM I POSTWD IT AGAIN GET THE CAMERA XD
>>69980143
It's worse...
Libertarians want us to return to feudalism.
The lords control everything; and if you touch their "stuff" you have touched "them" personally. They have the right to kill you...
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Libertarian_Party_Free_Trade.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Libertarian_Party_Immigration.htm
fuck these guys
>>69980156
>is the industrial relations and labor laws
Oy Vey a high standard of living! Better export all the jobs to shitholes like China then [hand rubbing intensifies]
>>69980176
>like clockwork
>>69980220
As it should be.
>>69976411
Or you know, we're confident enough to have our shit together and don't need to ask for free shit. Maybe you shouldn't have skipped those classes billy.
>>69980156
'Industrial relations and labor laws' are what make us first world and not third world, you fucktard. You want to demolish Western values and turn us into a third world colony of the Walmart Empire?
>>69980220
Libertarians actually think that the ending of feudalism was a "bad thing" and that a few nobles deserve to own the entire country because "muh property rights"
>>69980238
My god man, your dedication to shitposting.
It's...like....clockwork...
>>69980268
>like clockwork
>>69980220
In feudalism could talented peasants become lords? No. The rise of the market was the death of Feudalism.
>>69980306
>like clockwork
>>69980071
Yeah you can. You can compete on quality of labor instead of price of labor if you want. Learn a skill. Get a certification. Be anything above the blockhead that works down at McDonalds. Be worth more as an employee than ten rupees an hour.
>>69980096
So you're admitting that you just aren't able to compete with Chinese and Mexicans? I thought you people were all about pride in the White Race. If they have such a great work ethic that they're willing to slave away like that, and you aren't, who's the race that's demonstrating better values here?
>>69976210
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0042366
Because they have crippling autism.
...because many believe that Democracy is a valid means of achieving a free society, that you can convince people to vote against their own selfish interests and for freedom. That's about it.
>>69980293
Actually opportunity is what made america great. Immigrants from europe wanted to escape the rigid class based old world and be rewarded on the basis of their ability.
>>69980317
Those jobs are disappearing too, retard. Our country is being deindustrialized and turned into a third-world shithole.
>>69977424
>what are you going to do when brown people vote in more gibs once you import all of them?
>implying lolbertarians would give a single gib to the niggers and spics
I'm a cold-hearted lolbertarian. I say let them all starve to death senpai.
>>69980317
>quality of labor
wages are determined by supply and demand not "quality"
No you're starting to sound like a Marxist that believes in the labor theory of value instead of marginal utility.
Nothing is going to get you higher wages if there is a bunch of Chinese slave labor that will do it for less because they live in cages and have no quality of life.
>>69980391
Or maybe it's the fact that for the majority of our history we were over 90% European ancestry, and genetically we value individualism, thrift, hard work, and liberty.
>>69980317
In what reality would the market allow for every white person in the country to have a skilled-high paying job?
>>69980391
And that required removing class monopolies on land and property which is something that libertarians want to bring back.
>>69980465
Regardless of what he says, the answer is no. Technological advancement is erasing jobs wholesale at the same time as immigration, outsourcing, and H1B visa exploitation is swelling the labor pool. Top that with women entering the workforce and you have a crisis on your hands.
We're halfway into a post-capitalist, post-scarcity world without having the system set up for it, and it's going to be a disastrous transition.
>>69980309
>No. The rise of the market was the death of Feudalism.
Peasants are indentured. Once a peasant, always a peasant.
In a Libertarian socity only those who can afford to defend property can own propery. Lords own their serfs, effectively.
>>69980465
Don't you see?
EVERY white person can be a doctor or lawyer it's easy. No one needs worthless things like industry.
t.every retarded libertarian ever
>>69976210
They are idealistic. They are a natural ally to /pol/ though. We both want the same things essentially. Stop with this divide and conquer bullshit
>>69980448
>I can solve problems better and I'm overall more useful than 20 chinks
>I have various levels of knowledge on various topics instead of being specialized like a insect
>I know stuff about my area, can give insights for marketing and development (ie: don't ship it in blue, it's a unlucky color where I come from)
>motherfucking intellectual work
>not valuable
>>69980396
because a lot of the former mid-wage jobs would be gone no matter what. How many file clerks have you seen recently?
>>69980453
if you value those things then you should be a libertarian. You don't value those things if you think you deserve stuff just cause you're white though. You have to actually display those values, not just be related to some people who did.
>>69980465
this one, if those white people are as individualistic, thrifty, hardworking, and liberty-loving as >>69980453 says they are. I suspect there's a lot of them that are collectivist, spendthrift, lazy bootlickers though. Those people ain't ever gonna have a high-paying job no matter what race they are.
>>69980524
How were these class monopolies removed? Certainly not by the rise of a wealthy merchant class.
>>69980599
>They are a natural ally to /pol/ though.
Libertarians are purist cancer. They are enemies of the nation state.
>>69980599
I'm essentially a pragmatic classical liberal. We are your allies. I would rather have a conservative friend than a democrat friend. Divide and conquer indeed.
>>69980599
A libertarian is only an ally if they are against outsourcing and mass immigration.
If a libertarian is against mass immigration and outsourcing are they really libertarians though?
>>69980599
Lolberts are actually globalist tools. Their anti-statism is a wedge for multinational corporations to tear down White nations.
>>69980599
I don't want what /pol/ seems to want these days. Trump is directly contrary to everything I believe in.
>>69980677
>current year
>Has faith in the nation state
British to boot.
>>69980703
>Trump is directly contrary to everything I believe in.
Hi, Benji.
>>69980568
>We're halfway into a post-capitalist, post-scarcity world without having the system set up for it, and it's going to be a disastrous transition.
Holy shit this. We're so in denial of this and so afraid of communism/ socialism that we will not set up a system to cope with this. Chances are we'll figure it out but only after a lot of pain and turmoil instead of proactively
>>69980649
>this one
Explain how. Whites make up over 60% of the country. How are they all supposed to be skilled craftsmen and technicians and shit when the actual labor force is in the minority and living in cages? Where the fuck does the demand for their career come from?
>>69980651
The nation state that guaranteed property rights made Merchantilism possible.
The roots of Merchantilism were laid in Magna Carta.
Chimp
>>69980677
Nationalism is key. More divide and conquer bullshit. Small government or large government is irrelevant.
People like you who demand ideological purity are the cancer. You cause nationalism to remain small and obscure
How do globalist libertarians respond to pic related?
>>69980649
I mentioned technological elimination of jobs in another post.
Libertarianism is the natural inclination of many White males, especially in the United States. But that doesn't mean there aren't more important values that are a necessary prerequisite to preserving a society that is more libertarian. Shitskins will never share my values, and voting in Libertarians will demolish any protections my people have from them.
>>69980690
Why should the state control immigration? Why not let the market decide? The free movement of peoples is as essential as the free movement of goods.
Most immigrants wouldn't want to come to the west if we stopped handing them welfare. Cut welfare and watch things die down.
>>69980789
Go home Stalin Communism died, Reagan killed it.
>>69980800
>lolbertarians are capable of logic and reasoning
The things they say sometimes make even less sense than what the most hardcore SJW Marxists do.
>>69980799
nationalism is by default divide and conquer. We live in a globalized world now and for the foreseeable future, deal with it.
>>69980800
We don't like democracy.
>>69980813
Whites naturally create Welfare states because of our altruism. This is fine as long as the recipients are majority White because we are generally hardworking and productive. Just don't let shitskins in, there's nothing "essential" about letting your country be plundered by some other niggers in other countries.
>>69980690
I hold many libertarian views and i oppose both of those things. It's called thinking for yourself and not along party lines. Try it some time.
>>69980813
>Most immigrants wouldn't want to come to the west if we stopped handing them welfare.
Most immigrants know nothing about the "welfare". They come here because the jobs are here and they already speak the language.
>>69980859
He's not advocating communism or socialism, he's saying that our fear of any collectivist system that resembles these is preventing us from transitioning to a post-scarcity, Star Trek-style economy.
Niggers aren't really helping either.
>>69980859
It doesn't matter if it's communism, or stalinism, or what ever ism. I like libertarians but the economic concepts rely on scarcity. What happens post scarcity? Does anyone have an answer?
>>69980903
There are shitskins with more ability than many whites though. I would rather live in a society based on merit than on racial divides.
>>69980957
Post-scarcity is only possible or desirable if all the shitskins are dead.
Have you seen Elysium?
>>69980936
bullshit. The wave of immagration proves you wrong. There are jobs all over europe but the "syrians" all wanted to go to the biggest welfare states.
>>69980957
Supply and demand is the best anti-scarcity measure you can take.
>>69980633
>me I me I
t. libertarian
>>69980651
Revolution and/or changes in the economic structure of European/western society
>>69980813
>let the market decide if you are taken over by leftist brown people
>>69980935
But are you a libertarian though?
I believe in "capitalism" , but I would never call myself "libertarian" due to the associations with leftists.
>>69980813
>Cut welfare and watch things die down.
I've been saying this for a decade now. I don't think i've influenced many people unfortunately. No entitlements + fine the businesses heavily for hiring illegals and I don't it would be an issue. Might even see niggers starving in the streets or moving back to africa to top it all off.
>>69980813
>Most immigrants wouldn't want to come to the west if we stopped handing them welfare
>people don't care about things like better living conditions
Unless, of course, you meant that the west's living standard of living would drop to third world levels.
>>69980973
Merit would be great, but who determines the metric? Western value systems?
>>69980317
The society that values things above the dollar, asshole. It's not about WHITE PRIDE KILL EVERYONE ELSE LOL.
It's about protecting the well-being of Americans over the interests of multinational corporations who seek only profit. We have no obligation to give our wealth to the Chinese just because some jewish economist said it was good for GDP.
>>69981048
The market.
>>69981048
>who determines the metric?
George Soros
>>69980790
From them being smart enough that their labor creates more value than some Chinese guy with a middle-school education. If you can do things that most of the world can't the world will beat a path to your door to offer you money. Why do you think programmers in Silicon Valley make so much?
>but Pajeet
yeah, they write better code than he does, and companies are willing to pay more for someone who does better work. The ones that aren't better than Pajeet, and not willing to make themselves better, they get outsourced. Welcome to the world.
>>69980800
this is the kind of thing the constitution was meant to prevent, by giving the government no power or money to provide gibs. Whites themselves demolished that protection.
>>69980903
If you're altruistic and want to help other whites, start a private charity. Nobody in a libertarian society would stop you. What you wouldn't be allowed to do is demand that the government use force or taxation to intervene in favor of your beliefs. Which I think is what you really want, you don't want to have to fund your white altruism yourself, you want the government to take from others to fund it. (Protectionism, btw, is government intervention and taking from others)
>>69981102
>>69981109
hivemind
>>69980998
Elysium is where we are headed now.
>>69981003
supply and demand relies on scarcity
>>69981115
>they write better code than he does
Stop posting
>>69981085
Dollars are just a way of quantifying value, anon.
>>69981115
I'm pragmatically a fascist.
Idealistically, an anarcho-nationalist, but the world isn't going to get there.
>>69981134
Supply and demand deals with scarcity, prices increase forcing the market to find cheaper alternatives and a better allocation of said resources.
Nothing has saved more trees than the computer and data digitalization.
>>69976330
>armed tax collectors that kill people is a good thing
>>69981007
I am not a libertarian. I agree with some libertarian viewpoints and am more of a constitutionalist that believes in small government.
Nationalism is key for every nation. Nationalism is the best way to oppose the globalists. After nationalism you can add any ideology you like. National libertarianism. National socialism. National populism. National capitalism. National classical liberalism We are all political allies fighting against the globalist/zionists
what does /pol/ make of the Libertarian candidates? Derrick Michael Reid advocates for the return of public hanging and his website is called TOTALITARIAN DEMOCRACY and the wallpaper of the site is him in a civil war era union uniform with the fancy hat and everything.
I think he would fit in here. He looks like a fucking ghoul.
>>69981181
This, currycode is an absolute disaster
>>69976330
i agree with them on this to an extent
>yes authority does seem to be pushing the bounds a bit
but yelling things like fuck the police is very damaging to society
>>69981261
Gary Johnson just came out in favor of making Christians bake homocakes
I was upset
>>69981002
>bullshit. The wave of immagration proves you wrong
Er... no, it proves I'm right.
Immigrants come for the relatively high paid jobs. Even minimum wage is far higher than anything on offer in their home nations.
Enlish is an international language. Most immigrants already speak English, thats why they target anglo countries.
If immigrants targeted high welfare countries, Holland and Denmark would be over run.
They re not.
>>69981261
Just another LARPer who got lost on his way to the civil war reenactment
>>69981273
Being black is very damaging to society.
>>69981254
>seeing a conspiracy where none exists
>>69981261
>>69981296
Johnson had a pretty good record when he was a governor though. I like him.
>>69981261
libertarians are better than the neocons or democrats.
>>69981261
>TOTALITARIAN DEMOCRACY
Sounds completely contradictory to a Constitutional Republic that is Libertarian led. I've haven't been serious about the party for quite some time to be honest. Some of them are ideologically pure to the point that they advocate child porno and other stupid shit that while some here might love, I find appalling.
>>69981310
>relatively high paid jobs
Relative to their shitskin countries. But not relative to the prevailing wage in the US.
http://www.vdare.com/articles/national-data-march-jobs-immigrant-displacement-of-americans-workers-hits-all-time-high
>>69981441
>Relative to their shitskin countries.
That was my point, you silly cunt.
>>69981345
>Globalism does not exist
Holy shit why are you even here.
>>69981235
supply and demand got us here. supply and demand will phase out the worker. I appreciate the free market ideals that got us here but you have to see the impending crisis. I don't know what the solution is but it will not be the old economic models. Labor has it's own supply and demand curve and automation is and will be cheaper than the worker and much more efficient. We can value our labor at chinese ant colony wages but what does that get us? Correct me if I'm wrong, but without a strong consumer class to buy products, how will they sell? Without workers earning wages, how do you have a consumer class? Things becoming so cheap to produce and the buying power dwindling, what alternative is there besides a price for goods reaching zero or an elysium scenario?
>>69976948
>Mixing libertarians with ancoms.
>>69981345
>seeing a conspiracy where none exists
Stay kosher
>>69978901
Both major parties are big government, globalist, statist parties. It boggles the mind that some idiots on here think the solution to tyranny is even more tyranny.
>>69980691
Oh, fuck off, you clueless retard. Libertarians are some of the biggest opponents against globalism and are proponents of national sovereignty. Globalists are statists. You're just salty because you'll never be able to fulfill your Nazi fantasies.
>>69976210
They think literally everything revolves around money and actually believe economic theories are fact rather than an abstract concept
Libertarians have zero concept of nationalism, family, culture or altruism and think that everyone else also thinks this way
>>69981261
John McAfee seems pretty based.
>>69981493
>>69981508
>being some kind of stormfag
It's not some secret organization targeting you, it's people who want to be free to pursue their own opportunities, go where they want, trade with who they want.
>>69981517
Big-L lolberts support free trade and open borders. I'm not interested in that.
>>69981551
This is because they are literally autistic.
>>69981582
Now I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>69981551
you can act according to those concepts if you want.
you shouldn't be able to force others to, though.
>>69981551
>Libertarians have zero concept of nationalism, family, culture or altruism and think that everyone else also thinks this way
Edifying and erudite there Aussie. You're intelligent, thoughtful and vegemite is a real food. Please don't kill yourself.
>>69981582
Now I know why lolbertarians are quite literally brain-dead.
>>69981345
>globalism doesn't exist
Aren't you advocating it right now in this very thread?
>>69981582
>stormfag
oh I see. It's a bot.
>>69981582
>control who they want, own who they want, enslave who they want...
>>69981551
silly Aussie you can believe in whatever you want as a liberterian
>>69981582
Are you fucking retarded?
I have nothing against jews on a base level and i am egalitarian but globalist zionism is real and you would have to be fucking blind not to see it.
>>69981698
>>oh I see. It's a bot.
yeah I'm mad cause you were messin with my girl Tay
>>69981582
>secret organization
kek
http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/migration.htm
>>69977164
>Muh culture
>Muh heritage
Fighting for a shitty ass job mexicans do
Do the "white race" a favor and kill yourself faggot.
PS: Yes, culture and heritage are important, but not valuable so you can pick the lettuce instead of pedro.
>>69981762
Go away marco. You are not allowed to be a robot here.
>>69981812
you can't tell me what to do
>>69981500
Highly automation will lead us to the opening of new consuming habits and less workload.
10 years ago nobody went to the gym. Today everyone goes to the gym and they're sprouting like a plague, this is based on a wealth growth which allows us to allocate more resources into our well-being, image, and vanity in general.
We begin with ourselves but soon we'll also want prettier houses, prettier properties in general, soon, having an interior designer decorated house will be the norm, soon, things only rich people can afford right now will be the norm for most of the people, and that is brought to us by automation. Either that, or the amount of hours necessary to live like we do today will be reduced, thing is, my prediction is that in 10 years from now, our standards of living will increase, therefore we won't want to work less.
We think that unemployment and tragic situations are caused by works going to China, but that's because most people fail to understand that wealth is not static, if a factory goes to China, prices for said product will be cheaper, which in turn will allow us to allocate our resources in other vane things, if the government doesn't impede innovation, we should be able to spot those openings and cover them with our services. Not everything can be imported.
>>69981794
>Fighting for a shitty ass job mexicans do
A job illegal Mexicans do so employers don't have to pay them a decent wage
see where your retard logic leads? Oh wait you live in a poor shithole raped by monopolists. Never mind you know exactly where it leads.
>>69981932
Except average people objectively aren't wealthier
>>69982004
In fact people are getting in far more debt than ever while wages are stagnant. Prices however continue to climb.
>>69981762
I'm really disappointed you didn't fall for the bot bait.
>>69981500
Also, and I forgot to mention, the most normal situation caused by automation will be that middle class will become stock owners, people will literally own parts of companies generating passive income. This may lead to inequality but it will also lead to a complete disappearance of absolute poverty in the world.
>>69981932
Wealth and income gains from increased productivity and automation have been concentrated in the top 1% of the population, and they spread this money through offshore tax havens to protect it from our government.
Shit's pretty fucking heinous.
>>69982035
so they choose to make themselves poorer by borrowing more and paying interest instead of saving their money? That's their fault.
>>69982060
better luck next time, anon
>>69982035
Im sorry but those charts say absolutely nothing about quality of life.
Please read this article which debunks this myth http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottwinship/2015/06/15/debunking-disagreement-over-cost-of-living-adjustment/#2f7474f770fc
>>69982118
>they choose to make themselves poorer by borrowing
No
Wall street was deregulated allowing banks (Goldman Sachs) to create lax lending standards. This increases prices and creates an asset bubble.
http://cepr.net/documents/publications/dereg-timeline-2009-07.pdf
You're doing the equivalent of blaming consumers for buying Chinese products that secretly have lead paint in them.
>>69982100
US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the first world (35%), levies it on worldwide income instead of only income earned in the country (a territorial system, which the rest of the world uses), and double-taxes dividends (corporate tax, and then a tax on whoever the income is paid to), and you wonder why people go to such lengths to get their money out.
This ain't 1950, anon. The US has competition now. Maybe the bloated bureaucracy we gall the government should try taking less of people's money, if it wants them to keep it here and invest it here. The more it tries to take, the harder people will work to keep it out of their reach.
>>69981007
>I believe in "capitalism" , but I would never call myself "libertarian" due to the associations with leftists.
You have to understand the terms here. There are classical liberals, and modern liberals that call themselves """""progressive"""". The latter are the dangerous liberals I refer to as regressive liberals. Look up the terms when you have some time, delve into it.
>>69982118
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
Assigning individual blame on a population scale is a waste of time, people aren't going to change. Private debt has accumulated for any number of reasons, all of which go far beyond "stupid entire population of the US, shoulda saved instead of spending"
>>69982253
being in debt automatically decreases quality of life
https://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2015/05/peril-america-s-private-debt
Don't tread on me senpai!
>>69982297
Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you take a loan. Anyone can choose not to borrow.
>>69982269
>classical liberals,
Except libertarians pretend to be "classical liberals" yet they believe in open borders and outsourcing something the founders never believed in.
>>69976960
I'm not and don't.
>>69982268
Corporate tax rate, effective tax rate, and revenue from corporate tax are all very, very different things.
You're using the type of reasoning leftists use to argue that we should let more Muslims in otherwise ISIS will win. Multinational corporations are economic terrorists, they are not the friends of Whites.
>>69982372
>Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you take a loan
You are effectively forced to take out loans because everyone else has which causes an asset bubble. You can't afford anything without going into debt in the modern economy (education, housing, etc.
>>69982372
This logic is inapplicable when studying human behaviour at the population level.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality
>>69982388
To be honest I'm not a huge fan of classical liberals either. Lockean tabula rasa is a fucking fairy tale and the whole Enlightenment value system is crashing down around us as shitskins flood the Anglosphere.
>>69982100
How much of this wealth concentration could be blamed on government intervention?
You think the 1% don't like minimum wage laws, higher taxes, etc? You're just increasing the entry barrier for their competition.
I'm from Spain, here we have one of the richest man in the world (Amancio Ortega), and when I think HOW HARD it would be for someone to do what he did in the 60s to earn that place, due to government regulations, taxes, etc, I realize that these regulations do nothing but help those who already built their wealth when the conditions were much easier than now.
>>69982328
I don't see how. If I owe you 10 dollars and I have 20 in properties, is better than if I have 8 in properties and no debt.
>>69979092
>Muh protectionism
The literal economics equivalent to "Safe Space".
>>69982426
>but muh White Race
>>69982455
What is community college? certificate programs? trade schools?
what is having roommates? what is moving to a cheaper area? what is staying with your parents?
just because other people are ruining their lives doesn't mean you have to.
>>69977554
lmao if you can't do a better job than an indian engineer that costs 30k you deserve to be left behind
>>69982519
>Enlightenment value system is crashing down around us
I think the Enlightenment was correct, but it allowed so much freedom to subversive elements (communists and leftists) that want to kill the goyim that it backfired.
>if you don't like living in a house without outer walls and a door that has a lock you are afraid of competition with burglars
lolbertarian cucks everyone
>>69976608
>>thinks he's inherently much better than blacks, mexicans, etc etc
Not necessarily.
Why can't you wrap your head around people just thinking that mono racial societies are inherently better? It doesn't have to be a personal thing.
People are so incredibly prejudiced about racists. Racism in general is terribly misunderstood.
>>69982549
>having a high standard of living is a "safe space"
This is why Latin America is such billionaire raped a shithole. Enjoy being a slave to corporations.
>>69982573
>destroy your standard of living so that wall street can make some more shekels from rent seeking
how do libertarians justify this?
>>69982529
Deregulation benefits massive corporations just as much as it would small business or startups. They have pushed for this stuff consistently in American politics. See: deregulation under Reagan, CFMA, FSMA, etc.
>>69982616
>>People are so incredibly prejudiced about racists. Racism in general is terribly misunderstood.
>>69982615
Please read Hoppe, if anything, Libertarians are the biggest defenders of walls and locks.
Free movement? Sure, but if I want to put a wall around my property, and my property is a whole commercial area, you won't get in without an invitation.
With everything being "public", there's no way to prevent people getting in, not an efficient way at least.
>>69982603
Enlightenment is only partially sane in even a White context.
>>69976210
Well according to /pol/ the only options I have are
>Some overt form of authoritarianism
>Occasionally outright fascism
>Everything else is degeneracy and you're bad for wanting it
I'm mostly libertarian since I find strong reasons to dislike both the democrats and republicans in this country. I'll be honest that I had some notion that /pol/ wasn't as bad as it was made out to be, but holy shit.
>>69982573
>>muh white race
Go live in fucking detroit you sadistic piece of shit.
>>69982702
>>how do libertarians justify this?
Destroy the government regulation that allows that rent-seeking. Markets will remove the rents if you let them. The more you regulate, the harder you make it for someone else to come along and compete with the cozy oligopoly that's there now.
>>69982799
Libertarianism isn't so bad if you can trust everyone, and people are decent...but in today's multicultural world, the opportunities have broken down for a workable libertarian society. This is why people say "move to Somalia if you like libertarianism!" despite 95% of Libertarians being Whites.
>>69982529
debt gets in the way of spending and saving
an asset bubbles effectively make you a corporate serf
>>69982827
The existence of land ownership necessitates rent seeking.
>>69982809
I don't have to, because I'm worth more money than a nigger that can't do anything. If they don't want to live there, maybe they should improve themselves, then they'd be welcome here.
Because the free market doesn't elicit scientific progress as well as two super states at war.
Libertarians are fighting battle that they will never win. You can cut down governments all you want, but deep down we a hierarchical species, the majority of people want structure from powerful authority figures.
By crippling your government, you're only opening yourself to a new one being formed by people with guns or a bigger government subjugating yours.
You not liking it doesn't change a fucking thing.
>>69982902
Also I don't get the whole Somalia meme. The reason Somalia went to shit was Siad Barre being a moronic heavy duty authoritarian and thinking that biting the hand that fed him (the Soviets and the combloc) would work out. Also most people who pull the Somalia bullshit have no idea about the shit the AMISOM countries pull inside the country and the various inter-region fuckery going on. There's a lot more to it than starving skinnies with guns running around, and its not fucking libertarianism.
>>69982924
>b-but... I have no choice! I have to buy this giant house! I have to get a degree in underwater basketweaving! I have to buy this, and that, and the other! I need to borrow!
Nah you don't. Save some money. The bubble is perfectly avoidable. It only exists because it's a meme so many people fall for. but you can just opt out.
>>69982388
> yet they believe in open borders
Open borders doesn't define classical liberalism in respect to libertarians. Just like there are libertarians who are pro-life and ones like me that are not only pro-choice but pro-abortion. I'd define classical liberals as individualists that want small government and sound money markets. Liberty is the highest goal here and if there are mudslimes who want to put us back into the middle ages then i'd have problem adjusting certain aspects of the ideology to meet modern circumstances. Like I said earlier in this thread, i'm pragmatic and i'd refer to Machiavelli's wisdom when he said "because how we live is so far distant to how we ought to live, he who neglects what is done for what should be done sooner affects his ruin than his preservation." Maybe i'm a bad classical liberal, that's fine. I'm not gonna get hung up on ideology for the sake of being a purist. We live in troubling times and there are improvements to be made on the topic.
>>69976330
>surrendering your natural rights to a higher power is a good thing
>>69982981
That used to be true. It stopped being true in 1945. Plutonium, it's a hell of a drug.
>>69983035
>giant house!
this shed costs almost $2.5 million
Bravo libertarianism
>>69982993
Right, that's why I don't use it myself, it's an oversimplification and dilutes the real issue which is racial.
>>69983035
>opting out of commodities bubbles
Time to hang the lolberts and bankers.
>>69982924
Debt can increase growth when properly allocated by market forces.
The problem is when this debt is enforced by artificially low interest rates (like now) and devaluation of your money, along with states guarantee of "safety" for banks and a lack of bankrupcy, this causes what Austrian economists call malinvestments, which are the main cause for economic bubbles.
>>69983093
Then don't buy it if you don't think its worth that much. Live somewhere else.
I should note that if you repeal the zoning laws and planning rules that restrict the supply of housing, you'll get a lot of developers building lots of houses and bringing the price down.
NIMBYs hate that because they're in debt up to their eyeballs and don't want to see those stratospheric prices come down.
>>69981932
As automation becomes cheaper and more efficient it will phase out the worker. It already is. Demand for labor approaches zero and so will the value of labor. The elite will hold these highly advanced and efficient factors of production with not much to do with them if there is no consumer class to afford the goods and services they produce. This would be the Elysium future I suppose. The majority of the population would operate on a separate kind of economy, I'm assuming, like the one we have now. This would solve the problem of full automation? Without being able to afford these goods and services without wages, people would have to start making their own goods and services...I think? But then the money they would make on this...would they buy from others of the peasant class or would the goods and services of the elite fully automated industries price out these small startups? I really don't know. If that wasn't the case, then the elite would be sitting on these very advanced machines with not much to do with them.
>>69982519
>Lockean tabula rasa is a fucking fairy tale and the whole Enlightenment value system is crashing down around us as shitskins flood the Anglosphere.
I completely agree that the idea of a "blank slate" is absurd, to be kind. I agree that certain aspects must be tossed in the trash because this isn't the 1700s anymore.
>>69983093
>an economy run on fiat currency is libertarianisms fault
american education
>>69982086
So if people don't work but just own stock in the means of production...isn't that like communism?
>>69983168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>>69983165
Its the same in my country, there's this entity called SAREB which are in such deep shit that the government is forced to reduce the offer of land to increase the prices of apartment. And thats basically because of public banking lobbying the shit out of governments and rescues with public funds of public banks.
>>69982784
A country is owned by its nation. The nation has a right to build walls around their property.
>>69983142
debt increases financial overhead which effectively make the working class serfs for wall street
the fact you don't know something so basic is testament to just how deluded libertarians are
>>69983165
>then don't live anywhere you bloody serf
great libertarians are actively supporting neofedualism now
>>69983198
this has nothing to do with fiat money and everything to do with libertarians deregulating wall street lending standards.
>socialists thinking they have an argument
>>69982268
Honest question, the trend of wealth accumulation seen in the U.S., is that only happening in the U.S. or all western countries?
>>69983289
I mentioned it earlier. Stay with your parents. Live with roommates. Live farther away from the city. Live in a different city. You can do that, you know. Movement of labor is how the economy adjusts. Your trying to shut it down won't accomplish anything but make you poorer, same as your wall to keep immigrants out.
>>69983380
All, to varying to degrees
See Piketty
>>69983294
>you are free to get flooded by shitskins and have your job outsourced to China
wow freedom sure is great
>>69983418
>shitskin immigrants a drain on the welfare state intended for Whites
>wall making us poorer
pick one
>>69983472
The problem is the welfare state, not the immigrants.
besides, it's already drained dry by white boomers and their medicare.
>>69983212
It's just an advanced stage of free market capitalism. We're driving towards the opposite way sadly.
>>69983289
I'm sorry but you're just spouting memes and buzzwords at this point.
It's not even an exclusive libertarian concept, pretty much every major economic thought believes in the utility of debt, Keynessians are just wrong in forcing it, and right now what we have is Keynessianism, yet you blame Libertarians.
>>69983294
>If the natural tendancies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free...
Wow nice strawman :^)
>>69983418
>tank your standard of living so Shekelberg can have another yacht
this is why no one likes autistic libertarians
>>69983525
It's the immigrants
Their values, their average IQ, their political inclinations, all are inimical to Western civilization and our current standard of living.
t. Southern California resident
>>69983545
>give me money so I can have what I want! I deserve it more!
nah
>>69983542
>every major economic thought believes in the utility of debt
The problem is when the financial system is allowed to create unlimited debt, soaking the economy in it and turning everyone into a perpetual debt serf.
How can anyone NOT see this is a problem?
see the graph
>>69982035
Private debt is 3x the GDP the average person literally cannot avoid debt. That means all their money is going into wall street debt/interest payments and not the real economy.
No Keynesian would support this system.
>>69983687
>give me money
is the same as
>don't allow wall street to have lax lending standards that destroy the economy
again autistic libertarians fail at basic economic analysis.
>>69983702
Would you blame the proliferation of financial instruments and derivatives?
>>69983702
>>How can anyone NOT see this is a problem?
because it's only a problem if people choose to take on debt when they shouldn't. Maybe they should stop doing that if they don't like being poor.
also applies to >>69983742, conveniently
>>69983702
>The problem is when the financial system is allowed to create unlimited debt
Most Austrian economists believe in fractional reserve and free baking so I don't know why you're blaming libertarians for what is clearly a Keynessian wrongdoing.
>>69983801
God dammit autist. Stop blaming people for not acting in a way that rationalizes your lolbert religion and accept that they do behave the way they do, and work with it.
>>69983613
As bad as those things are, SoCal lacks natural resources. The amount of people living in LA tips the balance of natural resources in the state away from the North. If the State were cut in half, how would SoCal fair? I'm sick of hearing propaganda on the radio by the ag industry here in the central valley. Same sense of entitlement. Our water is over allocated and we are in a drought and these fuckers feel entitled to everyones' water.
>>69983917
I'm not responsible for their lives, they are. They're gonna choose to do what they wanna do. But it should be their problem if their choice is a bad one, not anyone else's.
>>69983796
caused by the deregulation started by Carter yes see
http://cepr.net/documents/publications/dereg-timeline-2009-07.pdf
>>69983801
>choose to take on debt when they shouldn't
Choosing between debt and not having a normal life is not a "choice"
>>69983854
It's not Austrian or Keynesian it's neoclassical economics.
You know the economic orthodoxy that libertarians seem too busy to deal with.
>>69983997
It would be terrifically awful, the LA valley sucks a bunch of water from other areas, in addition to other resources. There are FAR too many people living south of the San Gabriel mountains (I live just to the north, near the Cajon Pass).
>>69984073
It's almost as if a wall would have been a good idea 5 decades ago
too bad walls are "racist"
>>69984008
>>Choosing between debt and not having a normal life is not a "choice"
Yeah it is. Ask any self-made millionaire why they're rich and they'll say "living below my means". Save up to buy your shit, or make do with less. Increasing your standard of living through debt is an illusory gain.
Choose a smaller phone plan. Don't buy that big-screen TV. Eat out less. Prioritize your needs and wants. Buy stuff only when you can afford it. Geez, you'd think ordinary common sense and thriftiness was rocket science.
>>69984147
I don't even think a wall could have saved L.A.
>>69983917
So you're suggesting that we should be held responsible for other people's wrong life decisions?
>>69984008
>It's not Austrian or Keynesian it's neoclassical economics.
buzzwords again? please tell me where there's this manual on "neoclassical" (lmao) economics that claim that debt must be created from nothing. And then tell me how that's compatible with fractional reserve, which libertarians propose.
I honestly start to feel that you're way over your head in this conversation.
>>69984203
He thinks that because other people are in debt up to their eyeballs, he has to be too, because he has to be like them and do the exact same things. Of course he's in over his head.
>>69984150
>any self-made millionaire
We're talking about the average person
You have to go into debt just to have a nice home/support your family. It didn't used to be this way.
>>69984203
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoclassical_economics
>>69981965
A poor shithole raped by statits and government connected business elites* and with bad or not entirely formed institutions, see? I have no problems pointing out the failings in my country, sadly you're going towards what we're trying to get rid of down here, cuck.
>>69984008
Thanks for the link, I knew most of these but it's nice to have a timeline.
Not coincidentally, outsourcing really began to take off in the late 80s to early 90s, and you have Reagan and the Democrats' amnesty disaster in 1986.
>>69984147
Also too bad that we "reformed" our immigration quotas 5 decades ago. The 1924 laws were perfect, should've kept them.
>>69984203
Yes, that's part of living socially, actually. It wasn't so bad back when we only lived with people who looked like us and talked like us, it was easier to take group responsibility.
>>69984297
Ecuadoreans are inherently collectivist and lowish IQ, I really feel sorry for you guys.
>>69984267
So delay having kids until later in your career when you can afford more. Move to a cheaper area. Have a smaller family. Or borrow all your money and wonder why you live paycheck to paycheck, your choice.
The one thing you shouldn't be doing is expecting anyone to subsidize your choices or bail you out if you make bad ones, just because you think you deserve a big house.
>>69984297
Latin America is a poor shithole because businessmen are allowed to have land monopolies
The US under Jefferson was explicitly created so that there WERENT land monopolies. Unfortunately for Latin America the Spaniards didn't care as much about competition and independence as Spaniards. Spaniards were fine with the peasants all being perpetual serfs which is what you still are today.
>>69984430
>stop breeding goy
it never stops with this one
>>69984430
>delay having kids so Mr Shekelstein can buy another Caribbean island
another genius libertarian idea
>>69984474
>can't argue against it, I'll call him a jew!
you should be able to choose how you wanna run your life. If you wanna prioritize having a big family, go do that. Some people do.
don't expect me or anyone else to pay for it though, that's your problem. Figure out what you're willing to give up to make it happen, or figure out a way to earn more.
Nobody's forcing you to take debt but your own deluded self.
>>69984599
>nobodies forcing you to stop having kids have kids goy
>but I don't care if you can't afford a high debt economy so you should probably stop having them
>>69982702
>having a high standard of living
>the white man picking the potatos instead of Pancho.
K
>>69984599
autistic libertarians are crypto-jews
I posted several links in this thread that explain your retardation but unfortunately you will never read them
>>69984599
If I could a decent female to perpetually knock up I would do it and take all the handouts and government aide available to me. If Paco and Jamal can do it, why shouldn't I be able to? I know you're talking about theory here, but we don't live in a perfect world.
>>69984705
Libertarians can only think in their perfect world, unfortunately
They confuse it for the real one all the fucking time too
>>69984676
>wahh, I don't want to have to have personal responsibility! I want society to pay for me to live life the way I think I have to live it! The way I deserve to live it!
some strong White Man you are
>>69984677
>Ay Caramba white people never worked in fields before
Except they did before Paco came around. And wages were still the highest in the world in the US at the time. RIP protectionism.
>>69984705
If Paco and Jamal shouldn't be able to, you shouldn't be able to either.
>>69982784
I agree that the government is cancer and the primary reason why is everything going to shit and I'm all in for anarcho-capitalism but it wouldn't never work for us if population wants to follow lolbertarian doctrines written by Ayy Rand in suicide dive that are no better than socialist drivel.
>>69983286
Oh no bud sorry but you can't do that because that's collectivism and we libertardians are free from those backwards beliefs ugh uhm nevermind that immigrants come in herds and running a business takes more than one man. You can keep that electrified fence and machine guns to kill the thugs attempting to rob and murder you though or move to a gated community that signed a contract with Mr. Shekelstein's PSC. No worries, it will only cost a few measly hundreds thousand dollars more to keep the street gangs out and there is no warranty that Mr. Shekelstein will open the floodgates at night to ugh uhm drop the real estate market in this area so he can buy and rebuild ravaged houses and build more gated communities. Isn't it great that we're all enlightened by our superior individualism and follow the N.A.P?
>>69984778
No, you see, we're racist.
>>69984267
So a term invented by a socialist nutjob, okay. Can you, again, tell me, where do libertarians ask for a debt-based economy? The decision to take debt has to be yours and only yours, and governments shouldn't force lenders to lower interest rates in order to put out more debt, and your assets shouldn't be devalued with time due to printing money and artificial inflation, forcing you to invest on property that retains its value through time, which leads to more debt.
And, specially, libertarians consider a scam that a bank can lend what they don't possess, unless the risks are clearly specified and the loss of those resources is possible. This is the total opposite of what we have now.
>>69984329
I have a family and friends, in my family and friends circle we help each other, we "socialize" losses and help each other. That's what living socially means. What you suggest is not being able to chose who your friends are, and therefore being accountable for the decisions of people who will never hear your input or your directions towards proper paths. That's not living socially, that's slavery.
>>69984755
>wanting to avoid debt makes you a whiner and a loser
>wanting a family without going into debt makes you a whiner and a loser
This is why libertarians deserve the stereotype of being thoughtless, autistic, sociopaths, because they are.
>>69984797
Libertarians deserve criticism but why would you not value the N.A.P. It's basically what separates western society from the shit holes around the world.
>>69984839
You can avoid debt. Live below your means and you need never borrow a dime. You just want gibs.
>>69984816
>arguementum ad etymology
that's a new one. I didn't know libertarians were so autistic that they attacked where a term came from instead of what the term represented (orthodox economics)
> libertarians consider a scam that a bank can lend what they don't possess
Too bad that's how banking has always worked.
The only thing that stops banks (stopped them) are tight lending standards, which libertarians "did away with" in the 1980s.
>>69984816
And yet, somehow, non-autists don't consider it slavery, especially when shitskins aren't potential benefactors of the welfare state.
>>69984929
>choose to be poor for the jews' sake!
>>69984890
See:
>>69979465
>>69984971
I think it's technically a variation of the genetic fallacy.
>>69984929
>Live below your means
Oh look we're back to the cages
we've come full circle
yes thank you mr libertarian for caring so much about the well being of other whites.
>>69984971
>which libertarians "did away with" in the 1980s
Where was this congress where libertarians decided to become Keynessians?
It's rich that you're claiming I use argument fallacies when your whole argument is a straw-man.
>>69984890
There is nothing inherently wrong with N.A.P. but libertarian force you to follow the N.A.P. when you get attacked or there is a situation when you're most likely to be attacked i.e. the area is flooded by rapefugees.
>>69983286
>A country is owned by its nation
>"nation" as the ones with power
>Not defending his own property
>believing in public space
>>69984977
>the NAP was a mistake
We're lost...
>>69985031
What do I give a shit if you're white or not? What've you ever done for me? I don't expect you to give me money. Take care of yourself.
>>69984890
The N-A-P prevents you from enforcing borders.
>>69985089
Dude, the fucking Enlightenment was a mistake. Get with the times.
>>69985069
>keynesian
That's a funny way to refer to neoliberalism which has nothing to do with Keynesian economics
>>69985081
I can see the NAP going either way with immigration, considering property rights are usually extrapolated from it. The NAP as an ideal is a cornerstone to the fair and just society Europeans built. For people that value their tradition and how much better our western society is compared to the shit holes of the 3rd world, it seems like niggerdom to say the NAP is not worth upholding.
>>69985122
>What do I give a shit if you're white or not
but you seem to care a lot about Sholomo's ability to give out bad loans
It makes me wonder what your religion is
>>69985124
See
>>69985287
The borders around your being and your possessions is inherent in the meaning of the NAP.
>>69985287
The NAP is a SYMPTOM of fair and just European-built and European-run societies.
People constantly confuse the SYMPTOM with the CAUSE because they don't understand that societies are racial constructs.
>>69985395
That's not true goy
Africans are much better at capitalism than you
>>69985295
Yeah, let Shlomo offer his shekels if he wants. you seem to think you have to accept his deal. You don't. All you have to do to strip him of his power is say no.
>>69985192
>Neoliberalism
Again with the buzzwords and conveniently adjusted terms so you can criticize what you think Libertarians say instead of what they say.
Still waiting for the multiple evidences of libertarians asking for what you're blaming us for. It's hard to refute anything if you keep moving the goalpost to your convenience and being vague about what you mean.
>>69983613
Ironically, although ideally I don't believe in migration laws, I don't see completely absurd to inforce the migration laws you already have from a pragmatic point of view, same thing goes for europe. Also the problem is really the welfare state, there's a video of some polish politician saying how they don't get too many refugges because they don't offer the benefits of say Gernamy or Sweden.
>>69985501
>his shekels
>his
Except banks create their own credit, dumbass
you lose again
>>69985538
You're embarrassing yourself again
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
>>69985501
You and I both know that as individuals we may have the ability to meet your (somewhat absurd) standards for debt-free life in modern America, but the statistical truth about the general population is that this is simply not going to be the case. We can fix the system for more people by simply deleting Schlomo.
