Opinions on agnosticism, /pol/?
In my honest opinion it's the safest bet.
>>69958641
I left Catholicism in high school and don't really believe in got now
but what created the universe?
>this keeps me agnostic rather than athiest
Agnosticism is just glorified atheism of people who think they can avoid picking a side, when one side demands full commitment.
You can't be "half" religious.
>>69959102
Why the fuck should I HAVE to pick a side.
I simply don't give a fuck if there is a god, and have no interest in arguing about it with brainwashed fucktards who can't change their opinions from what mommy and daddy taight them and fedora tipping militant athiests.
I'm not "half religious", I'm neutral.
>>69959518
exactly
>>69959518
Not giving a fuck = Atheism
Not picking a side = Atheism
That's the entire point. I don't give a shit either, but I know what words mean.
Agnosticism doesn't exist. It's pretending a middle ground or a neutral position exists in a two state system.
You can thank the jews and/or militant religious organizations for pushing this fedora atheism meme, but it doesn't change the facts.
Atheism is simply not believing. It doesn't matter WHY you don't believe, they're all the same.
Agnostics actually don't give a single fuck about it, they call themselves agnostics to evade religion discussions.
I just made this fucking gondola, in the moment I'm the only human being with it, download it you flaming faggots.
Agnosticism is the objective and scientific version of atheism.
If you call yourself scientifically minded and you stand by a theory without any consideration that it might be false, you are a disgrace to the idea of intellectualism and you need to be taken out back and shot.
In short, agnostics are nice, atheists are shit.
Pantheism is the only real choice.
>>69959752
>>69959788
Is "I don't know" not a particularly viable answer in your eyes, then?
>>69959788
This is a good gondola.
>>69959858
"I don't know" is not believing, hence atheism.
>>69959788
Not giving a fuck is not believing, hence atheism.
>>69959827
This is just grade A bullshit.
>>69959858
It IS a "I don't know and don't care about it"
It's just a weasel word to try to mask your atheism.
>>69959752
quit trying to steal votes it's not going to happen
Pantheism is what I philosophically agree with but I'm open to anything that is true. Anyone worth their salt understands that we are a small cog in this large machine and true understanding of it's mechanisms and origins are probably impossible to understand from the inside with our current technology.
>>69959956
I always thought that atheists make the assertion that God doesn't exist.
>>69959918
ty senpai, drawing with the mouse on photoshop is fucking hell, I want to amputee my entire arm now
>>69958641
Agnosticism is for pussies. Man the fuck up and take a stand.
>>69960075
>cock so small the panties aren't moved
Poor guy
>>69960075
where is this from
agnosticism is a type of atheism
People need to stop thinking it's a middle-man/mutually-exclusive: it's not.
>>69959858
It is, but it would make you an Agnostic Atheist.
You're going to have to own up to being an Atheist and put your big-boy britches on, son.
>>69958641
for pussies
>>69959956
What if you just believe that it's not possible to truly know whether or not there is a god (without direct divine intervention). Atheism makes the assertion that god does not exist, but agnosticism makes the assertion that we don't know and probably shouldn't care.
Unless what you're saying is that because both end up in similar behavioral outcomes, they might as well be the same thing.
>>69959102
>picking a side
further proof that religions are retarded and none sense
>your sky walking daddy is better than his!
If one religion claims (actually every) they are the truth, then how come there are so many? Oh don't answer yet. They're fuckihg stories made up and taught by people!!!
Holy fuck you people. Isn't it obvious??? Different region has different their unique own religion and God. In this scenario, EVERY RELIGION is just a story that fits their society. Isn't it obvious??????? It only works in one certain place. It certainly cannot work out side of it let alone whole universe
Tell me why the fuck do niggers have a bunch of white people to be gods and creators? Why don't you guys have an Indian looking Buddha? Why Asians's style of dragon isn't on any European wall arts??? Fuck you religious people are cancer. It's so obvious why the fuck do you always dodge the reality and run back to your holy secret club and put your time into worshiping some none sense???
>>69958641
how do agnostics know that proving whether a higher power exists or not is impossible?
>>69960119
Atheism itself is lack of belief, that's it. It is the opposite of Theism, which is having a belief.
Just as there are a myriad of different ways theism manifests (for example Christianity), there are many subgroups of atheism.
Agnosticism would be "We can't know which one is true". This is still atheism tho.
A more general subgroup would be agnostic atheism, which is more akin to "I don't believe, but I don't claim my (lack of) belief is correct".
Then you can have people like Dawkins who are more like "Religion is incorrect, I have proof". This would be your gnostic atheism.
Agnostic and gnostic refers to what level of "knowledge" you claim to have.
As far as I know there are two kind of atheists:
The cringy scat fetishist fedora tipper
&
The one who thinks God is probably not real and knows that debating religion is useless. Jim said what is the correct name for this type once, but I can't remember.
>>69960289
see
>>69960427
Atheism without any further refining statements is simply a lack of belief. Since being convinced that we cannot know which is true, whether or not God exists is you not currently having a faith, that makes you an atheist.
>>69959752
You realize that this "You must have an opinion about EVERYTHING" is why this generation thinks everyone is a special snowflake, right? You're allowed to not have an opinion on an issue.
>>69960549
You are allowed to not have an opinion but THAT STILL MAKES YOU AN ATHEIST.
You can color your face blue, but that doesn't make you something not-human.
>>69959752
>Agnosticism doesn't exist. It's pretending a middle ground or a neutral position exists in a two state system.
Who the fuck said it was a two state system? I don't care for organized religion and I also don't care for fedora tippers who believe that "there is no god" is a fact
>>69959827
Nope. It's like saying "hey dude, I tell you there is 3 sky men standing in the xxx universe that's 300 light years apart from us. Now. You don't believe it? Proove it wrong faggot. Or else how can you say this theory is not true? Aren't you scientific?"
With enough evidence. Kek those are not even evidence those are the reality. Religions are just made up stories that ancient people used to build their morality and society. It's a tool. It makes 0 sense when nowadays we acknowledge so many things in this universe. It's false.
>>69960546
You're forgetting about people that believe on some days and don't believe on others and don't give the debate enough thought to determine which is their actual stance and which is only brought on because of a good/bad mood.
Am I a Christian on good days and an atheist on bad ones? Can you just switch on a whim like that? That's what agnosticism is to me.
>>69959752
>Not giving a fuck = Atheism
Is not Atheist supposed try to prove non-existence of God or at least parade this thing around?
>All these 'sky wizard' strawmen
The need for closure in some people is so strong that they do not accept there might be neutral positions. They are so used to thinking in black and white terms that a person who's genuinely in doubt, who's completely on the fence is inconceivable.
No, you do not have to pick a side. There is no way to know what is going on, so why should you have a strong opinion about it?
If you don't know what flavor of ice cream Obama likes, you can't possibly ask him, it's not wide knowledge, do you have to have an opinion about it? Just say "I don't know" and move on.
>>69960689
If you don't care about god then you don't believe in god, making you atheist. It's really that simple.
>>69960427
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-there-a-difference-between-atheists-and-agnostics
http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/Atheist-vs-Agnostic-Difference.htm
http://grammarist.com/usage/agnostic-atheist/
I'd say you're conveniently leaving out the other half of the definition of atheist to suit your argument.
>>69960849
HOW ISN'T he a sky wizard? seems like a pretty accurate description.
A straw man implies inaccuracy lol
>>69960756
>Am I a Christian on good days and an atheist on bad ones?
If you believe in something, you are a theist, if you don't, you are an atheist. If you switch that shit on a daily basis, then you're just not very committed I guess.
>>69960817
This militant fedora tipper meme is perpetuated by religious organizations in an attempt to make atheists look more stupid than they are. You can guess why they do this.
>>69960817
>Is not Atheist supposed try to prove non-existence of God or at least parade this thing around?
you can't prove the non-existence of ANYTHING you braindead faggot
>>69960689
>>69960689
Your preferences literally don't matter it's a two state system because there are no other possibilities. There either is a god or there isn't, pretty simple.
Refusing to pass judgement on either one of those statements is not a valid "third" opinion. If you don't actively accept and believe in a god or the supernatural then you're an atheist end of story. That doesn't mean you have to accept that it's impossible for a god to exist but not being an atheist requires active belief in something.
I believe that there is a god but I don't believe all the roman church. Also I like the moral created by religions with christ and like to read the bible. What am I?
>>69958641
I would be agnostic but I do not wish to give any credit whatsoever to religious beliefs.
>>69960901
I may be agnostic but I don't think that if god exists he is in any way anthropomorphic nor that he cares about us. Why is the question of god's existence relevant for my behavior, then?
>>69958641
Multiverse faggots
>>69960952
>then you're just not very committed I guess.
Which is what a fucking agnostic is. I could either be a retard and say "Well, today I'm a Christian, but yesterday I wasn't feeling it so I was an atheist." or I could just say I'm an agnostic every day.
>>69961060
>>69960901
stop trying to oppress and push your opinions on to me shitlords
>>69959788
I will save that gondola because I fucking love gondolas you faggot.
>>69959752
You're wrong, Ahmed. Stick to German, maybe. Or whatever your home language is.
What do you call someone like me that believes there is a good chance there is a higher power, but I have no proof, so I don't try to make any life decisions around that. Just constantly speculating about what could be, while feeling pretty confident there is something more to all of this.
Hint: It's agnostic.
Retard.
>>69959752
>Not giving a fuck = Atheism
that's Apathism fedora tipper
>>69958641
It's a bitch way to live you life. It's fine if you don't have the answer yet but to willfully accept ignorance and stand behind it is fucking retarded.
Also call out to all my Lutheran bros and all my other Christian family
>>69961151
I should have used "it" instead of "he" for consistency.
>>69959102
Are you retarded? There could just as easily be a god as there can't be a god, because we shitty humans can't fathom this bullshit, and wasting time pondering about it is utter retardation. Taking scrolls of greedy power-hungry humans from thousands of years ago as fact is retarded, beliving you absolutely know the truths of the universe (atheism) is retarded. You are all retarded.
If there's a god I don't give a fuck about him or his policies, if there isn't, I still don't give a fuck about him or his policies. It's like wasting my time trying to specify the exact size of space, why in the fuck would anyone but an utter retard do that?
>>69959752
You are an idiot. It comes down whether or not you believe things without evidence. Religion requires faith and since no one can disprove God, so too does atheism which holds that there is no God.
Obviously an agnostic is not religious and while functionally they may be similar to an atheist, there is a key difference (empiricism).
>>69958641
People who identify exclusively as "agnostic" do not understand what the word means. You can be agnostic and atheist or agnostic and theist; agnosticism is simply a statement of whether or not a deity could be known to humans.
In my experience, they're usually obnoxious atheists trying desperately to distance themselves from the Great Fedora.
>>69958641
>safest bet
>if christcucks are right, you go to hell
>you still angle your life around an invisible sky wizard
>>69961152
multiverse is a retarded-tier meme
>>69961206
or you could just say you're a fucken moron
>>69958641
It isn't. That's like voting for independent.
>>69960914
From your first link
>An atheist, on the one hand, believes that there is no God.
Is already incorrect. There is a difference between believing there is no god and not having a belief.
The lack of a belief is not the same as a belief of a lack.
This distinction is VERY important, as a belief in a nonexistence is like saying you're praying to the non-jesus daily. It doesn't make any sense.
>>69961206
That's not how this works, see >>69961044
Agnostic or Agnosticism by itself is not a complete system. Agnostic is a word that stems from
A "not" and Gnostic, where Gnostic basically just means "knowledge"
Calling yourself Agnostic is saying you don't know, but forgetting to name the thing that you don't know about. It doesn't say anything about whether or not you believe.
Agnostic Theism also exists, those are people who don't give a fuck, think we can never prove Gods existence BUT STILL BELIEVE IN HIM.
Just Agnostic doesn't exist.
>>69961225
Do you really believe that it is equally likely that there is or is not a god? Are you -really- trying to claim you don't lean one way or the other?
>>69960914
You didn't really prove him wrong there. Agnosticism is still not a valid other position. You're still either a theist or atheist but you can be anywhere on the sliding scale of agnosticism.
>>69959999
quads have spoken
>>69961416
>Obviously an agnostic is not religious
Not religious and Atheism are IDENTICAL
>>69961427
Basically there argument.
X could be true because in another universe it might be possible
>>69960427
>Atheism itself is lack of belief, that's it
Merriam Webster would disagree.
>2a: a disbelief in the existence of deity
>b : the doctrine that there is no deity
>>69958641
Agnostics are, in theory, people who are not sure of whether or not there is a god. They claim that this is due to human limitations and that science may never know.
In practice, Agnostics are people that don't give a shit about such a childish debate. We don't care for the religious OR the atheists. Both of these people annoy us, and I would go as far as to say that Atheists piss me off more than religious people.
I am Sikh and I don't care much for the existence of God. I like my faith and the values it holds. I was at the temple a couple weeks back and loved the fact that the speakers at the temple place an emphasis on equality on a practical level.
Does it matter to me if there is a god? Not really.
Does it matter if the people that believe in god that I'm surrounded by behave kindly towards the community? Of course!
I honestly don't care if there is a god. I thought I was the only one, but supposedly I'm not.
>>69961541
I lean more in favor towards there could be some form of god(s) because life, everything on earth and the universe seems way too amazing to just be coincidence
>>69961587
Atheism is believing you KNOW there is no god. Theism is believing you KNOW there is a god.
Agonisticism is knowing you DON'T KNOW SHIT but you don't belive there is a god, gnosticism is knowing you DON'T KNOW SHIT but you believe there is a god.
I think its funny you goyims think that you can choose your religions.You will all be Jews before the year 2020 or you'll be in the ground.
>>69959518
>neutral
>lazy
One and the same.
>>69961738
Most retarded post in this thread so far.
>>69961587
You're so fucking stupid. May as well quote where you get your shitformation from. Fucking atheists.org kek.
>Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God."
Anyways, you can believe in god and not be religious.
>>69961495
>Just Agnostic doesn't exist.
Oh so now you've turned to literally just arguing semantics. Are you one of those people that say "Well, we can't be sure communism doesn't work since technically, none of the attempts were real communism."
"Just Agnosticism" is an umbrella term like when some says they're Christian. There's no such thing as 'just' a Christian either, but you don't call them a retard for not specifying that they're 7th day adventists or unaffiliated or whatever because you know full well what they mean, just as you know full well what I mean when I say I'm agnostic instead of needing to go into my life story every time I'm asked.
>>69961738
>Atheism is believing you KNOW there is no god. Theism is believing you KNOW there is a god.
wrong on both fronts
>>69961722
Retard, this shitty universe and it's infinite copies could potentially have gone on for an infinite amount of time, and in an infinite amount of time the infinite amount of random chemicals could randomly combine into the exact combination required to create evolution as we know it and thus humans. It is then likely that infinite time from now when we are all nonexistent a process that can be compared to reincarnation happens where it happens all over again in an infinite loop of infinite inhumane inescapable life.
Why is this so hard to understand?
>>69961665
A "not"
Theism "the belief that God exists or that many gods exist"
>>69961738
>Atheism is believing you KNOW there is no god.
No, that's gnostic atheism, almost. It would be KNOWING there is no God and hence you do not believe.
>>69961738
>Theism is believing you KNOW there is a god.
Gnostic Theism. Again almost correct, as it rather is you KNOW God exists and chose to believe. The order is important.
>>69961722
Then you're a theist. You may not be completely certain but that's fine there is nothing wrong with empiricism. You aren't just agnostic though that's nonsensical.
>>69961787
>YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE AN OPINION ON EVERYTHING. IF NOT, YOU'RE LAZY.
See
>>69960549
>>69961927
Fedora tipper confirmed arguing over semantics
fuck yourself
>>69960025
No, it really isn't.
God cannot be empirically proven to exist, nor can he be disproven. Therefore, agnosticism is the only logical conclusion.
Think about it, i know its a struggle for you religious types with your >muh feels over reals but it's pretty simple.
>>69961576
HOLY SHIT>>69959999
>>69961921
>I halfway know, that we can know, that there is a 50-50 chance a god does or does not exist
lmao
>>69961495
Merrimack Webster dat atheism, they disagree.
Again you're rescoping the information to fit your argument. I posted the links to point out that you and the other American are the only ones moving the goalpost from what people commonly accept in the term agnostic.
Feel how you want, you're just letting the tires spin on the question.
>>69961957
There's too many words for all this bullshit though and it seems pointless to discuss other than for ego masturbation since there's no right answer
>>69959752
>I know what words mean
>Atheism is simply not believing
t. Doublethink Deutschland
>>69961809
>Anyways, you can believe in god and not be religious.
I'd like to see how that works in practice.
>>69962011
Not having an opinion doesn't mean you don't fit into a definitive description/definition.
>>69961921
See above
Evidently from this thread, it's atheists who don't wanna be associated with the fedora tipping crowd.
I'd like you to think about this for a moment though: If Christians turn out to be correct, do you seriously think that at the gates of heaven they'll be like "Oh glad you didn't chose a side, you get to stay here".
Nah, it'll more be like "Oh wow another unbeliever, off to hell you go".
Not picking a side is picking a side.
>>69962071
God can be proven empirically go to a bank and make a withdrawl
>>69961656
The multiverse """"theory"""" admits that everybinary random event causes a rupture and creates two new universes, one where that event was true and another where it was false.
That is impossible to measure, prove or experiment, it's even more schizophrenic than religion
>>69962240
That's not even what i was arguing in that post mate, you're probably right, what i was referring to as athiests in my original post are more "anti-theists"
I was just telling that moron saying that Not having an opinion somehow = lazy to fuck off in that post.
>>69962164
They may disagree, but they're wrong.
Ask a religious person whether or not they see you as part of their "team" in one way or the other, even partially.
To them, we're all atheists, because they know it's a if you don't believe, you're an atheist and not some weird Tumblr-snowflake scale where you can be whatever you want.
I can respect religious people a hell of a lot more than the edgy Agnostics crowd who think they're too high and mighty to conform to terms that have been in use since the last 1500 years.
>>69962170
Do yourself a favor and read this.
>http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/hale/ENVS5200/Ladyman%20--%20Understanding%20Philosophy%20of%20Science,%20Chapters%201-3.pdf
If everyone on /pol/ would study a little philosophy this place would be significantly less shitty.
It seems like all the people who refuse to accept the atheist label even though they are atheist are suffering from both "above it all"ness and special snowflake syndrome.
I've got too much shit going on to care if there is a god or not. If there is,great! Maybe he/she'd be so kind as to help lift some of the burden off of my shoulders. But from what I can surmise,there isn't or he/she doesn't care,so they can piss off. I'm out,niggas.
>>69962350
There is math that supports this theory. Unlike anything related to God, Thor, Big Foot, or any other outrageous claim.
>>69962444
I'd rather just shitpost though. philosophy is ultimately useless
>>69958641
>In my honest opinion it's the safest bet.
That's like saying "not playing poker is the safest bet"
You're not committing to anything so you have nothing to lose or to gain.
>>69962513
Yup.
>>69962164
Look up feminism in your precious dictionary, retard.
>>69959752
>Ignore definitions, label everyone who doesn't believe the same as I do as people who do so I feel more secure in my beliefs
>>69959518
This, one can neither confirm nor deny the existence of god scientifically.
So why bother when there are more important questions like do I eat a bagel or toast for breakfast tomorrow?
At least this question has a direct impact on my life in a way that is easily quantifiable.
>>69962071
yeah it is
agnosticism/gnosticism is about what you know or believe to know
atheism/theism is about what you actually believe regardless of your knowledge
and if you're claiming that you simply "don't know" you aren't even answering the question about whether you believe or do not
if you're aware of the idea of god, regardless of how impossible it is to define, you have a belief
agnosticism is not just some neutral position between the two, that's misconstruing what it actually is
>>69962591
I used to think that too, which is why you should read that book or at least look into constructive empiricism.
It also gives you a little bit of reflection on how jewish philosophers are responsible for all the bullshit you see now.
>>69962350
>mfw I realized the Hindu religion can be tested by experimentation and is therefore the only scientific religion
>>69962553
Big Foot isn't an outrageous claim!
>>69958641
Better than militant atheists.
Agnostics are nice people
t. Christian.
>>69962425
>>but they're wrong
Yeah, I'm done now, your feelings literally don't matter, and you just tried to bat away an actual counter argument by saying "but I don't think the dictionary is right". GG Hans enjoy the cultural enrichment.
>>69962824
Most of them are atheists in the closet. They can't imagine addressing themselves as "atheist". EW ATHEIST.
>>69962898
Again, tell me the definition of feminism from your dictionary, retard. You're relying on a fucking dictionary to describe someone else's position.
Someone who claims that there's no god must be a gnostic atheist, because he's claiming to have knowledge that other people don't and that he can prove so. Agnostic atheists simply know that god is an unfalsifiable hypothesis and that's why they're agnostic, because you cannot prove a fucking negative in this case. Atheism is simply about non-belief.
>>69962350
Well it's a hell of a lot more complex than that. The idea here is that quantum waveform collapses happen in all possible results simultaneously and there are hidden as of yet undiscovered alternate configuration of quantum systems that exists paralel to our space time.
The idea would be that our universe is just one "shadow" or one "layer" of a larger structure that makes up the whole "whatever" that holds everything together.
The cool thing about this theory is how it explains some really fucked up phenomena that cannot be explained with our current understanding of the universe.
One of those things are black holes, or rather, the singularities that seemingly exist within. As you may know matter nor energy can be created nor destroyed. What scientists actually mean by that is that "information" cannot be created or destroyed. Information is a very abstract concept. Basically think of the complete sum of quantum waves/states an object has at one given time. This is the "information" of this object. This can be both energy and matter.
Anyways black holes on the other hand seem to do just that: Destroy information. It is a common misconception that black holes are just really really dense spheres of matter, like, if you would drop something on the surface of the black hole, it would just crash into it at really high speeds.
The truth is that black holes do not have a surface and do not consist of matter as we understand it either. This is why we call them singularities, it's basically a term for "we have no idea what's happening".
To bring this whole explanation back around, black holes and their information destroying properties cannot be explained with a single universe. But in a multiverse it can, because the information would basically just transfer between one or more universes. Remember how I said that all quantum results happen simultaneously and are merely distributed among parallel universes? This is basically how it could be explained.
>>69962761
Agnostic:
>a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic
>a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study
>>69963388
But not holding the position of belief (theism) is already atheism.
You don't need to be some Richard Dawkins type of atheist who tells grieving widow's that their husband isn't going to heaven because heaven doesn't exist. But you are still an atheist.
>>69962553
I'll give you a golden advice: math isn't something natural.It's the most unnatural and counter intuitive thing we ever made. It's a mere coincidence that we can use it to describe nature.
>>69962774
trolling or serious?
>>69963348
I'm well aware of it, I oversimplified to spare my fingers. We make assumptions about blackholes. Just like dark matter, we are unable (at least now) to test our theories, but it could be easily a mistake, a biased view of the problem.
>>69959752
>> two state system
lol
What if I quantum mechanics this system?
If I don't observe the system then it must be both until I do.
Therefore a third state exists where one can believe and disbelieve in the existence of god.
Why even make a decision on the topic?
If god exists and everyone ignores him/her/it then him/her/it will show itself to regain a following.
If god doesn't exist and no one prays to it, nothing is lost anyway.
Although in all honesty I would love to have a god. Someone who loves me and has the power to protect me and lead me to a better outcome in life. Unfortunately there is no way to prove who or what this being is if they even exist, and I can't trust 2000 year old texts from goat fuckers to be right any more than I can trust Tom Cruise to guide me to god. So until the a webway is opened and the god emperor of man reveals himself all religions intentionally fake or otherwise are equally true and equally false.
>>69964122
That doesn't work when one "state" is the negation of the other
In short, not picking Theism, not being religious, not believing automatically makes you an Atheist.
Look, this is really really simple.
If I ask you "Do you believe?", what is your answer? If it is ANYTHING other than "yes", you are an atheist.
