http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/bernie-sanders-calls-shutting-down-new-york-nuke-plant-n550331
Sanders wants to shut down a nuclear power plant that provides 25 per cent of New York City's power in favor of renewables.
Does he have any idea how many fucking wind turbines you'd need to cover a quarter of NYC's daily energy requirements?
http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/how-many-wind-turbines-would-it-take-power-all-new-york-city
Christ, Bernie. I like you, but that's just nonsense.
>>69943743
He's literally spouting memes at this point to get the vote.
I live near this plant and I agree it should be shut down but have a new one built in its place im all for nuclear power but this plant is not safe especially being that close to nyc
Nuclear is the safest and cleanest. God damn liberal retards.
>>69944030
>nuclear is the safest
>>69944030
Or it would be if we had followed through with plans to create a central storage facility for nuclear waste under Yucca Mountain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain_nuclear_waste_repository
Way to be a team player, Nevada.
>>69944749
it takes a literal act of god to fuck up a modern nuclear plant
>>69944880
Unfortunately, a lot of our nuclear facilities are using 40 year designs. It's easier to get blood from a stone than to get approval for the construction of a new reactor in the current political climate.
>>69944868
We did.
Yucca Mountain is literally finished... we're just not allowed to use it.
... thanks Harry Reid and Greenpeace. Good idea forcing all of America's nuclear plants to continue storing waste on-site instead of at a central repository.
>>69943743
He's right about shutting it down, the Indian Point plant is old and busted and sitting on a fault line that was undiscovered when it was built.
It needs to be replaced by a new plant with modern reactors though, not wind/solar.
>>69946578
And therein lies the problem.
I absolutely wouldn't be opposed to all the liberals shouting about shutting down existing plants if they were also supporting replacing them with new, 4th and 5th gen plants... but they're not. They're talking about shutting them down and replacing them with nothing.
Oh sure, they say they'll replace them with wind, solar... but that's 15-20 years of work to replace one plant. Meanwhile what the fuck do you think will be used in place of the shut down plant? That's right - more goddamn coal.
>>69944030
>libruuuUUuuuuuUUuuUls
Name one power-providing reactor on the planet that has operated for one hour without any subsidy.
I'll wait.
And while you slither away because it's not actually possible for you to answer my challenge, consider this; it was the liberals who implemented nuclear, back when they discovered that they could engage in their wildest Keynesian fantasies as long as they did so within the umbrella of the many defense industries they created/proliferated, or to purvey the v west paradigm they constructed to preserve defense revenue streams upon cessation of major hostilities in ww2.
Good, good~
Buy hydro!
nuclear is the safest and cleanest and cheapest and most renewable source of energy what the fuck
>>69943743
>shut down nuclear plant
>in favor of renewables
so, another nuclear plant?
>>69946722
>imbyling modern liberals arent the ones stopping nuclear power because its scary
>>69943743
>sanderswants to shut down a renewable energy source in favor of a renewable energy source
I feel like there's a joke about socialism in there.
>>69946707
why would it take twenty years to build replacement wind farms
>>69946908
Its old and falling apart, you stupid fuck.
>>69947097
So is Bernie.
>>69946899
See, you don't even realize that you're a liberal, they have co-opted everything entirely, and now you carry their water for them.
You actually think that socialized industry is great and totally not liberal at all, as long as some hippy whines about it.
You are completely and utterly cucked.
Indian Point needs to be shut down. Its old and out of date and a meltdown waiting to happen.
>>69946863
Nuclear isn't renewable, it's just carbon free.
>>69943743
>Christ, Bernie. I like you, but that's just nonsense.
Into the trash your shill tactic post goes.
>>69946722
>Name one power-providing wind/solar farm on the planet that has operated for one hour without any subsidy and has met projected power generation
Holy shit, I can spew irrelevant bullshit too. Too bad that they seem fine spending money on solar that doesn't produce and wind that kills muh precious birds instead of cutting red tape to modern reactors that would actually deliver.
>>69943952
SOLAR FUCKING ROADWAYS!
>>69947097
So is Sanders, but you still like him.
>>69947282
Yeah, it's not renewable. It just lasts much, much longer than anything else.
They should just rebuild the plant instead of circlejerking over which meme power source should replace it.
>>69947282
It's close enough to be the same thing.
Could supply the earth's current power use for 60,000 years with our current shitty reactors use rate, as better reactors come on line that number increases exponentially.
>>69947189
Kek
>>69947288
I'm a lifelong Democrat. Doesn't mean I can't think Sanders has some dumb ideas.
with jews, you lose
>>69947000
>why would it take twenty years to build replacement wind farms
Unit 2 and Unit 3 at IPEC have a combined nominal capacity of about 2.2 GW. Total nuclear power in New York is about 8.7 GW
Even with the MASSIVE subsidies New York has put towards wind power the last 20 years, they've only just now hit about the 1.6 GW mark statewide. Just replacing IPEC would mean building 140% more wind turbines in the state of New York.
Let me repeat that - you'd need to build 140% MORE wind turbines than New York has installed in the last 20 YEARS... just to replace this ONE fission plant.
And if you want to replace nuclear power in New York entirely, that shoots up to 550%
>>69947515
for the record, breeder reactors make nuclear renewable, sorta.
Shit is weird.
>>69947880
Not renewable per say... but much less of the fuel goes to waste.
>>69947220
Stefan?
>>69947880
Also that when reactors improve they can actually use the waste of older reactors makes them semi-renewable. Nuclear power is so close to limitless that you might as well consider it so as it will last until humanity is long dead.
>>69943743
>A windfarm of a more typical size, one rated 300 megawatts, say, would occupy a five by five mile swath of ocean, and could power 1.5% of the city.
25 square miles for 1.5% of the city.
1,667 square miles of faggotry to power New York.
And let's not even mention the MAINTENANCE of MECHANICAL THINGS sitting in FUCKING SALTWATER.
Actually that plant is outdated, poor design, sitting on a fault line, and leaking large particle isotopes into the Hudson River.
It should be decommissioned. NYC can purchase the lost supply from other sources.
Also get busy building a new fourth generation reactor on a more stable foot print.
>wind
What a fucking stupid way to get energy.
Solar is still inefficient shit, hydro is not good everywhere, coal should just fuck off. Build more nuclear pants, invest in the future goddammit.
>>69947867
so what? you need to remember what we're capable of, and not what's politically expedient in the current environment
140% more wind power is technically feasible, and frankly, sounds like something that could be done in a year or two. it's a matter of politics, not technical feasibility
>>69947282
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_reactor#Reprocessing
get your shit together you have the internet
BERNIE FELL FOR THE RENEWABLE MEME
HE THINKS NUCLEAR POWER IS A FOSSIL FUEL
>>69948280
wind power is nigger tier. pls. you arent even using the tides. we could power the eareth with the tides and not use up our land or precious metals in solar and wind.
>>69944030
It would the safest if we weren't being ruled by retards. How many months of apocalyptic train explosions did we have last year before oil took a shit?
I know how good nuclear is and I am glad we don't fuck with it more.
>>69943743
Bernie's retardation is a ploy to make Hillary look good
it isn't working tbqh
>>69948274
eh, i don't really care how safe we're told fission reactors can be. i was told a Chernobyl event wouldn't ever happen again and then fukushima happened. with enough built and on a long enough time scale we'll just fuck up again.
if we can figure out fusion, i'm supportive. but renewables are the best option today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel_cycle#Reprocessing
>Currently, plants in Europe are reprocessing spent fuel from utilities in Europe and Japan. Reprocessing of spent commercial-reactor nuclear fuel is currently not permitted in the United States due to the perceived danger of nuclear proliferation. However the recently announced Global Nuclear Energy Partnership would see the U.S. form an international partnership to see spent nuclear fuel reprocessed in a way that renders the plutonium in it usable for nuclear fuel but not for nuclear weapons.
>>69948286
Eh, there is still mass lost, that guy is [i]technically[/i] correct, but still a retard.
Could supply power for hundreds of thousands of years with earth's uranium supply + reprocessing.
Wish /pol/ supported markup.
>>69948471
i don't know anything about it, but if what you're saying is true, very well
>>69947282
It's no less renewable than solar.
>>69948524
>comparing nuclear fuel transport and storage to petrol
>>69948280
OR... for about the same cost and probably half the time you could just build a replacement plant for IPEC
BUT OH NOES! MUH SKAWY NUKLARS!!
>>69948399
Is this real? Like really? Because that's insanely hypcrytical
>>69948635
nuclear should be our priority until lockheed delivers us star power. end of story.
>>69946187
fuck harry reid. literally the scummiest of scumbags in congress
thank god that piece of shit is retiring
>>69948889
i wonder what even bigger scumbag is trying to replace reid
>>69948696
lmao if there were any justice you'd be forced to work clean up at fukushima
>>69948974
wut? Nuclear is by a huge margin the safest and greenest form of power generation. What can you possibly have against it?
>>69948573
Fukushima was nowhere near the scale of Chernobyl. Everything that could go wrong with a 40 year design did go wrong, and we just ended up with a couple of small towns in an exclusion zone. No direct deaths, very little possibility of the sort of widespread cancer we saw after Chernobyl.
>WAAAH IT'S NUCLEAR LIKE THE BOMB IT'S SCARY WHAT IF IT BLEW UP AND KILLED EVERYONE
>JUST USE A WIND TURBINE I MEAN COME ON HOW HARD IS IT IT'S SO CLEAN TOO
I will never understand how people can base their views off ideology and ideas on a purely conceptual level rather than the actual real world application.
This is how shit like solar roadways gets $2million in funding.
>>69943743
Nuclear has literally been our ticket to a future of massive cheap power but we haven't built a new one since like the 70's so we're stuck with these old shit plants and all the fucking uneducated leftist hordes are scared of them because people hear radiation and think of fucking Hollywood bullshit.
>>69943743
>Does he have any idea
None whatsoever, just like his brainwashed supporters.
>>69948974
Let me ask you something - where do you think that 2.2 GW is gonna come from during the 20-ish years between the plant's shutdown and the construction of the ~140 THOUSAND acres of wind farms you're proposing to replace IPEC?
It's gonna be fucking coal... pure, pollutive coal, producing millions of tons of radioactive coal ash while hippy faggots like you bitch and moan about uranium fission.
>>69949278
Some town in france just got like 40 million euros to build a solar road.
It's funny that they could use that money to generate 10x as much power if they just put the panels on rooftops and installed them at the correct angle, but are quite literally retarded and blow money out of their asses just for "muh solar roads".
>>69949278
But france is building real solar roadways now!
LELELE /pol/ BTFO
I'm read to leave this planet. Europe is done.
>>69949095
the historically demonstrable, occasional disaster that poses a danger to human life for long periods of time is a good reason, i think
an earthquake occurs and damages a wind farm, workers are sent out to do repairs. an earthquake occurs and damages a nuclear reactor?
i mean, how long would list of nuclear disasters have to be for you to change your mind? maybe a few more displaced cities around the world?
>>69949348
So exactly why we still have people who think gun control is a good idea then
>>69944749
list all the deaths from commercial nuclear power
>>69949521
Now compare the amount of power nuclear has generated vs solar farms have generated in that same time you cuck.
Nuclear ALWAYS wins on a per-KWH basis simply because it produces so much more than its "green" competitors.
>>69949457
Wait the French government is actually funding the solar roadway meme? Fucking hell.
I saw on the Simpsons how dangerous nuclear power plants are!! they are dangerous replace them with green energies now!!!
>>69948773
Yes and yes it is hypocritical.
>>69949677
>tfw china is going ahead with LFTRs
>>69949521
>the historically demonstrable, occasional disaster that poses a danger to human life for long periods of time is a good reason
How is that a good reason when nuclear is caused less deaths per kw/h than any other power source, even with all the poxy gen 1 reactors in service?
>>69949808
LFTRs have a laundry list of reasons why they suck which people just ignore. Fusion power will be practical before LFTRs are.
>>69949521
>i mean, how long would list of nuclear disasters have to be for you to change your mind?
Enoguh to make it more dangerous than other sources of energy. Right now it's by far the safest.
>>69949677
Nuclear is a way, way bigger initial down payment, though.
>>69950019
and?
>>69950019
Just divide the setup cost by its massive lifetime expected output and it's still a damn good deal.
>>69947189
>>69947388
Yeah, you have to be a burnout to not like a nuclear plant that is falling apart. Trumpfags are worse than liberals
>>69944880
>THIS WILL BE THE LAST NUCLEAR FALLOUT CATASTROPHE
t. increasingly nervous man
>>69950309
>nuclear plant that is falling apart
is it?
>>69943743
>scuttle nuclear plant that powered the city for half a century
>HAHA TAKE THAT
>build mememills
>liberals go away patting themselves on the back
>power engineers build a bunch of gas plants to back up the wind power
>CO2 goes up and you spend twice the amount of money
>windjews and gasjews kek all the way to the bank
amazing
>>69949521
And yet nobody blinks an eye when a dam bursts and sweeps away thousands overnight.
Or nobody says anything to the massive water contamination produced from solar panel and fluorescent light production.
Or either the deaths and displacements caused by increasing electrical bills in third world countries because first world countries try to force green energy sources on them.
"Green" energy is hypocritical as it is dangerous to humanity. And I'm a huge advocate of environmental protection.
>>69950622
It's like sweden and germany turning against nuclear power then suddenly for completely unrelated reasons needing to import power from france, a massive nuclear power generator.
>>69950309
ya i'm just memeing, Indian point is an ancient shitty GE mark I BWR
decommission it and build an AP-1000 at the same site to save money
>>69948773
He has a 6 figure income and is a millionaire.
Achieved by decades of claiming he supports the little man.
>>69951049
6 figure isn't necessarily that much. You'd think he'd drive an electric at least. The fuck..
>>69950562
Very outdated, laws won't allow you to build new ones. So change the laws and BUILD(find a city that wants one) or use other technology
>>69951049
He's not even a millionaire. His total worth is only slightly higher than his annual income and he's in debt.
>>69950309
Except even a falling apart ancient nuclear reactor is safer and cleaner then any other power source known to man kind. If they were going to replace it with a modern nuclear power plant I'd be totally behind it but they're not. They're going to replace it with something that is by every objective measurement magnitudes worse.
>>69948773
No it's not real
http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-audi-8/
Jesus christ people on this site are so gullible and feed into outrage culture almost as much as SJWs
>>69943743
Why the fuck would someone want to shut down nuclear it's totally green, liberals should love it.
>>69950908
Or the deaths from coal.
Mining accidents alone cause tens of thousands of deaths a year, to say nothing of the deaths from respiratory diseases caused by the pollution.
A large well run nuke plant makes about a million dollars a day
>>69951493
Because it hinders the "green" companies scams of receiving tax money to build useless shit.
>>69951493
It's not a meme-mill or a meme-panel.
>>69951602
Also, coal plants put out far more radioactive waste than the average nuclear plant.
>>69951493
I think Green's and Democrat's opposition to nuclear energy is stupid as fuck, but I get the point that having one near a populated area is a little unnerving
>>69951255
>Very outdated
that doesn't mean it's crumbling.
Why dismantle it and replace it with much much more expensive and less green technology? Unless you use hydro, there's no green technology that can provide a steady power supply. It will have to be replaced at least a little bit with coal. We should be hanging on to the nuclear stations we have if we can't build more.
>>69951493
This has long been a hot subject in Sweden. I don't know how it is in america but in Sweden we fill our energy needs with like 50% hydropower and 40% nuclear power and 10% other, making nuclear power a very important source of energy. Yet we have consistently made strides to shut down nuclear power plants over the last 30 years or so.
The most popular argument against Nuclear power is that the waste product is dangerous and has to be put deep underground to not endanger the environment or people. It will also remain active for a very very long time, longer than documented human history so far. I'm still in favor of nuclear power because it's necessary, but the sheer scale of time needed for the waste product to become safe is staggering.
>>69948573
Fukushima was an accident resulting from a 15m tsunami as a result of one of the highest on the richter scale earthquakes observed by man. It was a million in one chance. And it resulted in zero direct deaths.
>>69952454
>It was a million in one chance
It was a 1 in 25 chance. The plant was 40 years old, and there had been another quake of that scale around 1000 years ago. They didn't engineer it to withstand such a tsunami because they were retards.
>And it resulted in zero direct deaths.
Just the destruction of a local down.
Reminder that the average American's salty fast food intake would provide hilariously effective at mitigating fallout damage to our bodies
>>69951808
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/indian-point-nuclear-power-plant-called-a-disaster-waiting-to-happen/
>>69947383
WHY ARENT WE FUNDING THIS??
>>69953579
Roads are expensive as fuck as it is
>>69953242
>India
India is not america you know? Are you going to tell me driving is dangerous too because of india?
>>69953579
Are you joking?
>drive through Palm Springs
>half the wind turbines aren't turning
that's why wind will never be a primary source of power. you can't assume all the turbines are working all the time
>Christ, Bernie. I like you, but that's just nonsense.
why the fuck are you even here?
if you like bernie even just a tiny bit there's no reason to be here. also you post like a newfag/reddit poster.
>>69943743
Bernie is a stupid old kike. Wgaf what that senile old jew thinks.
>>69953579
Because it's completely retarded.
>>69947602
That's not including CANDU designs which burn uranium pretty much straight out of the ground and produce LWR and nuke fuel as a byproduct.
>>69943743
>in favor of renewables.
But nuclear is the best power source and will last basically forever.
>>69953579
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds
>>69948087
Why would you use wind power on the ocean when you can use wave and tidal instead?
Daily reminder that there are nuclear lobbies that spends hundreds of millions of dollars around the world and shills for nuclear power and actively discredits other renewable sources of energy.
>>69953579
>Check flag
Everything checks out, carry on A LEAF
>>69943978
Do you know how long it would take to plan, gain approval, generate the capital to built it, then actually build the damn reactor?
Too much time thanks to incredibly high regulations placed upon Power Plants.
> Muh safety
You wouldn't have to worry of a meltdown if New Yorker scum didn't built it.
>>69943743
A big energy company in Upstate NY are closing down a Nuke plant and 600 people are losing their jobs come next January. I know cause I live up there. There's no industry and no well-paying or secure jobs anymore. That is, unless you want to change diapers for all the old people who live on welfare. And even then caregivers don't make a lot of money... The more production jobs get destroyed or outsourced the more citizens depend on the government. Then the local and state politicians got to raise taxes on citizens because the tax money from the industries was paying for local gov't expenditures. There's an entire school district that's got to downsize and close a elementary school cause they can't balance the budget anymore. When energy producers and big companies leave the area then whole communities slowly decay. They exist all over the USA and I live in one - it sucks.
>>69951406
Where in that ENTIRE article does it provide substantive evidence that 4chan is wrong?
Where. I just read it all. All the article says is, "4chan made claims as this was Bernie Sanders. Sure it looks like him, but they never provided evidence (lol...get me a DNA sample of that man to prove me wrong). Thus, it is not Bernie Sanders and 4chan is wrong."
>>69954647
> 0:30
That fucking iTunes/Quicktime updater window. Every god damned time. Fuck you iTunes.
>>69948573
>i was told a Chernobyl event wouldn't ever happen again
And there still hasn't been. Fukushima happened because of a tsunami, not technical errors at the plant.
Who here /914/ Indian point is not a risk but every so often some liberal group tries to say it should be shut down. The worst was post 9/11 when they said the terrorists would exploit security loopholes too create a nuclear meltdown.
>>69947274
good it will cleanse NYC of shitlibs.
>>69947282
are we gonna run out of atoms to split?
>>69947723
how does it feel to have a metal disorder?
>>69943743
He's trying desperately to appeal to the ignorant. This works surprisingly well in politics.
>>69948970
Schumer. And he is literally worse than Reid.
This sort of ridiculous nonsense is why no one takes the left seriously.
>WE NEED TO SWITCH TO RENEWABLES BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING!
>NOT NUCLEAR THOUGH (The only one that could realistically work) THAT'S DANGEROUS
New Yorker here, shutting down Indian Point is so amazingly retarded. The amount of power our city consumes continues to grow, and a Sanders administration would likely waffle around as soaring energy prices make NYC unlivable.
Factor in as well that the main source of power in Manhattan is ConEd's coal plant down on something like 10th Street. You know how we get coat to that? BARGES. The cost to get coal to that plant is ridiculous as is, the thing is already running at near max capacity, and the DOE basically said "we will not allow you to increase output anymore".
So, we're looking at very costly expansions of a plant bordering huge numbers of projects where dirt poor niggers live, with triple average transport costs because it's on the East River.
The fuck are you going to replace IP with? Wind turbines and solar panels on LI, which has an already depressed economy that's just beginning to rebound, combined with LIPA's aging gas power infrastructure? You going to import juice from New Jersey, because we already do that, the majority of their energy is dirty, and 90% of all memepanel dev there goes to boosting LOCAL industry because Christie's not an idiot.
What the fuck is Sanders actually proposing?
>>69958154
that's because the left can't solve these problems, same reason Obama didn't executively legalize same sex marriage a few days into office, the dems haven't federally legalized weed, etc. If they solve the problems the voter stock dries up.
>>69943743
If there is a God, I see LA and New York destroyed in my lifetime. Please.
>>69958241
It's not retarded from the perspective of the Left as it accomplishes one of their goals. The left is anti-energy, for degrowth, and for deindustrialization.
wtf at least shut down a coal plant you senile marxist cuck
Bernie Sanders seriously has no idea what he's talking about ever
>>69958563
Are they, though? If they had their way, they'd turn the whole world into a 3rd world sweatshop. Those require SOME power.
>>69943952
Hasn't he been doing that the entire campaign?
>>69958241
>What the fuck is Sanders actually proposing?
free energy
>>69958241
normies are scared of the word "nuclear"
>>69958761
No, if they had their way they'd turn the whole world into the poor villages of India. The ones with no electricity or clean water.
>>69943743
Sanders doesn't know that nuclear energy IS renewable energy? What gives, I thought jews were supposed to be smart.
>>69951406
Unfortunately, that article neglects to inform the populous that that audi is actually following a Sanders campaign bus.
>>69958860
Well, we could just get the millionahs and billionahs to pay for it along with our college.
>>69958884
WHY? Most people I know think it's pretty sweet., and I have a fair amount of normie friends.
>>69958935
Except for Israel, I assume. But then how would everyone watch the media and not get redpilled by actual hardship?
>>69943952
not vote
money
>>69943743
The problem with liberals is they are afraid of things they don't understand, why do you think we don't have a dyson sphere yet? completely green but
>SPACE IS A WASTE OF MONEY
>>69944030
Yeah just don't pay any attention to its highly toxic waste products that have to be stored away and monitored constantly (because we all know how good the government is at that kind of thing) for thousands of years
>>69959823
I was always a fan of shooting it off towards the sun.
Will normies ever stop fearing nuclear energy?
>>69959984
They're normalfags.
>>69955710
nuclear power isn't even shaking off the chernobyl scares yet, i doubt there are that many shills
its safe, fuel efficient and is waste efficent.
>>69957447
Technically, Fukushima survived the tsunami (the worst on record) and survived the earthquake (also the worst on record). What it didn't survive was that combination of events knocking out all the power in the prefecture, knocking out the backups, and flooding the emergency generators.
Fukushima didn't happen because nuclear power isn't safe, it happened because of an unlikely, unholy clusterfuck of coinciding natural disasters the likes of which probably won't be seen again this century.
>>69959679
Or...it requires way more time energy and resources than we have.
>>69959679
I remember hearing about some faraway galaxy that had a fading star well before the end of its life cycle. Maybe it was a Dyson Sphere?
