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Why are you so scared, pol. Why don't you want to work towards utopia?
IN!!!
No thanks
Been there. Done that. Get with the times, Nepal.
>>69902860
>>69902529
Hmm...
>>69902675
Lithuania stronk! We remove capitalist imperialists together!
>>69902860
Oie, Gorkhe. K cha?
>>69902529
>implying America isn't trying to go full commie
Go back to making Khukuris.
>>69903009
What is it?
>Marxist Utopia
Pic related.
>>69903330
Such ordung :^)
>>69903147
I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression, Trudeau... But we don't want degenrates on our team. Best Korea will take care of your continent.
>>69903314
>>69903216
>>69902860
Are Gurkhas raiding? I didn't get the memo.
Eh.. It's time to get rid of the normies, plebbit shills and newfags anyways.
>>69903544
Was meant for >>69902968
>>69903330
Is beautiful, mayn
>>69903938
Think of all the infrastructures and development that could be done if we all did it together. Instead of every dumbfuck trying to start a buisness and buy a house every generation.
That's the vicious cycle. Communism give you a job and a goal right after you finish your education. No wasting time on earning a livelihood, paying your loans, buying a house, etc.
>>69902529
Whittaker Chambers wants to have a word with you. Perfect society can't exist because humans aren't perfect. Retard.
>>69904093
>muh free markets
>our Steel industry is collapsing, but it sure isn't capitalism fault : ^)
>>69904478
The Steel market's problems are caused by China dumping steel on the market, which is a product of their central planning and keeping people employed in pointless jobs plan which just produces more steel than is necessary.
>>69904093
The same can be said for capitalism. You're given an impression of "You can succeed".
When in reality, the Jews in power are sharing it with fellow Jews and goyims who obey.
>>69904227
That's because we're still roaming around like wild pigs. Chasing something that's based mostly on luck and circumstances.
If everyone had an equal start; no rich parents, no expensive colleges, no buying your way into jobs, etc, we could move towards perfection and utopia.
>>69903686
Nepal?!??!? Aren't you supposed to be a Maoist?
>>69904272
Shhhh, Straya.. Let the assimilation happen... It'll all be over soon... It's for your own good.
>>69904964
>I'm whatever my shitposting needs me to be, my sesame sprinkled friend.
But Nepal is a capitalist economy with a "on paper" communist government now.
Free bumps for every thread! Hail communism!
release the proletariat
I lived next to the Utopia
It looked pretty shitty and the people that came from there said it was shit
>>69906078
I lived in the Utopia. It was shit.
>>69906078
Oh shut up, Finn. Russia was not true communism. The bourgeois were still in power.
And you should have never left Sweden in the first place.
>>69906078
Many liked it though
>>69906292
Really? I assume you were alive when the Archduke was assassinated as well.
>>69906464
You sound like every communist that i have met
''(Insert communist country that has fallen/will fall was/is not real communism''
Also, we left Russia before it went to shit
>>69906464
>communism is not REAL communism
Then what the fuck do you want?
>Marx and Stalin on the same side
b8
>>69906579
It wasn't that long ago. learn2history
>>69906731
Following that logic, you'd say that every nationalist regime is a Nazi Germany. Don't be a hypocrite.
Besides, life under a Lenin rule would be beautiful. Stalin was a power hungry, genocidal maniac.
>>69906936
No, I'm just assuming you're a 14 year old.
>>69902529
Because they're a bunch of insane faggots.
>>69903201
it's the opposite of commie
>>69906868
Rare? Still a Spanish vassal?
Anyways, using communism and Stalin in the same vein is like using Morsi and democracy.
They claim to follow that ideology but you know they sure as shit are not.
Decadence isn't part of the goal is why
>>69907607
When's your lease on freedom up? Prepare to join the world's greatest production powerhouse soon.
>>69907235
Lenin was a bourgeois philistine
>>69907959
And you're a beacon of selflessness?
The entire concept of capitalism is selfishness!
>>69908155
Care to back that up?
>>69902529
The grand people of Cuba love their present communism enough to make boats out of trash to preach about it in the Land of the Free.
>>69908187
You can own your own private property with capitalism, you can't with communism.
>>69908187
Yes, yes, commie.
If I worked and you were to slack off, I would have to give half of my money to you, correct?
>>69908494
Still better living under Batista rule
>>69908584
Indulging in material possessions and belongings doesn't scream decadence to you?
Besides, it's not like everyone lives in a giant stable. A house and essentials are provided to you.
Or if you're a European, a cuck shed.
>>69908819
No, you propoganda believing idiot. Your pay equals the quality of work you do.
I'd prefer a world without roads desu
>>69909094
So Rural?
>>69909178
Yeah but also private nukes and heroin-taking kindergarten prostitutes.
>>69909385
>>69909094
I think we can all get behind that, Ahmed.
Fuck the Jew capitalist pigs who run this world. Anyone who practices capitalism is practicing Jewish culture and may as well pray at the synagogue. You take the scraps of money and jewelry from your Jewish masters as they fuck your whilw your race dies.
Wake up. You are nothing but cattle to them, and capitalism are your chains. They will import immigrants to work more cheaply than you, then your daughters will sell their bodies because they have no job. They dont care if rape is commonplace because of immigrants.
They want you to be a cuck buying every latest fashion and iPod while they run the world and commit white genocide. You cucks only freedom is chosing which fast food joint you want to eat at.
Which bullshit nigger sport jersey you want to wear. That's your freedom. Start a business of your own? Please nigga, the Jew banks don't allow that shit without taking a cut. Only way to destroy Jews is to take all private property from them and their white slaves who worship them.
>>69904898
That is not possible, and here we are. Pipe dream
>>69910262
What's a pipe dream is believing you will be super rich someday from your trailer park. It's like trying to hit the lottery nigga and if you do the Jews will take their share with interest for the entire ride.
>>69910838
This.
It's a brainy burger.
>>69910838
Kek what the fuck are you on about
I live a simple life in an upper middle class suburb and I'm content to die here
Not everyone who doesn't believe in infantile pipe dreams is some ambitious fuck
Moreover, there's really nothing wrong with being poor if you can afford the basics
>>69902529
>Why are you so scared, pol
We're not scared of spaghetti-armed nu-males.
Every time commies and anti-commies get in a scrap, the commies get their teeth pushed in.
This is how scared we are of you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZXNuqje_es
>>69911057
The problem is that you have no power and you aren't free. You can chose to eat at McDonald's or Burger King but that's not freedom. You can buy fancy iPods and other useless shit, but the Jews still run the media and the banks, government. You have no say.
They corrupt government with money, you think your vote matters? Nigga please. If they need lower wages to increase profit fuck your boarders too. In fact fuck your wife and forget children because they will raise the cost of education so high you won't be able to afford kids. They will have to fuck immigrants for money on the street.
>>69910838
>>69911057
Ever notice how the proletariat has never actually led the revolution? Only college professors preach this kind of shit.
>>69911714
Fuck you and capitalism, capitalism is the world wide manifestation of Jewish culture. All that matters is $$$$. Not your own race or your culture, in fact fuck that it's not profitable. They created cultural Marxism to make more profit.
Divorce? Great, parents will have to buy 2 of everything. Immigration? Great cheap labor. Education, make it expensive so whites die out. They want only the stupidest niggers to control. They will seduce you with "individualism" do you give no fucks ablut your society or tribe or anyone else for that matter. And for Jew geld, promises of riches in capitalism.
Fucking cuck open your eyes.
>>69911475
>Liberals
Liberals are not communists. Communism is useless without a strong national pride. And self hating, college professor hippies are the worst.
>>69911561
Lel you sound like some george carlin tier edgelord
I can eat dinner at one of the small businesses across the street whenever I want
Why exactly should I expect freedom from your idiotic little revolution?
>>69911714
That's why I'm saying there has never been true communism. There's always one faggot inciting to gain power for himself.
The borgeious class is to be eliminated after the revolution, or it becomes an autocracy. Not communism.
>>69902529
>nepal
I can see why you'd want it. Your current HDI is hovering around Czarist Russia's 100 years ago.
>>69902529
There needs to be an edit with all these communigers brutally murdered and the caption " COMMUNISM: Party's Over"
>>69912364
Exactly what a fucking Jew cuck is expected to say. "Fuck you revolution", I'll let the Jews commit genocide as long as I can eat at a fancy restaurant and play my digital music, and porn. La la la la, oh shit where did all these shitskins come from, and when they rape your daughter, don't cry to me.
>>69912364
>t. faggot on his Mac, sipping Starbucks, proud that he supported a local business
Advertisement and consumerism runs more deep than where you choose to stuff your face, lardtard.
>>69912433
Bourgeois are fucking Jews always have been. Who were those merchants in European cities and bankers? Was the ducking Jews they need to be stopped, their revolution is white genocide.
>>69912618
And your country's entire economy is held up by warmongering arms dealers and hook nosed bankers. Get rid of those companies and your economy would crash so hard, Hades would feel envious.
Sure, preach your HDI while your entire culture revolves around obeying your consumerist overlords.
>Buy, buy, buy
>>69912620
Sure, Tyrone. And you go pat yourself on the back for Shillary and your "democracy".
>>69913074
>Sure, preach your HDI while your entire culture revolves around obeying your consumerist overlords
That's exactly what grows an economy, retard. You can hate it, but it is a formula for success.
The US is also a VERY diversified economy.
>>69913367
Small businesses grow an economy, faggot. You don't think that Apple and Nike and such have billions offshore and are skimping on taxes that small businesses would pay?
And diversified? Ha! All your economy is based on is brand recognition and advertising. Not actual usefulness.
>>69902529
Dystopia**
>>69914065
Clever. Go sell coke, Pablo.
>>69902675
flag checks out
>>69912433
>my special form of communism has never been tried!
Listen cuck, humans are fundamentally flawed and will use every chance they can get to one up the other guy. Your thinking is flawed
>>69902529
Because Utopia is a fantasy and nothing else.
>>69914128
Which is why America doesn't have a truly free market right now, to many restrictions and licensing so the government cucks and juden can make more bank. Get rid of restrictions, embrace productivity and wealth.
>>69914128
>saving the thumbnail
here's your (you)
>>69904671
>capitalism is Jewish fuckery
All of communism intelligencia is Jewish
Time to read a book dude.
>>69902529
>Marx partying with three men who made a perversion of his theories
>No Trotsky
Nice try
>>69907659
And yet you posted a picture of all the "not true communists" like they are cool to start your thread.
>>69914265
We're discussing ideologies here, dumbfuck. Don't be a mindless faggot if you can't contribute anything and start spouting memes.
The only reason you need to one up one another is because we've been living in a feudalisctic and capitalist society. You wanna berate others for being barbarians, don't be a hypocrite.
We don't beat women over the head and drag them to our homes even though it's "human nature".
Capitalism and Socialism are both Jewish mind control. There's only one path to the light. Everything else is at the mercy of the semites and bloodthirsty people who want your race, nation and soul to devour.
There's only one way to achieve the idea of "communism". It has been done before and it will be done again. Also do not listen to the shills and don't feed them. You would all do well by not replying to this retarded thread and/or topic past this post.
I don't understand how limp wrist commie cucks can knock capitalism because it "turns you into a slave" when communism is bending over to an omnipotent bureaucracy that owns you, as you stand in solidarity with your fellow sheep. Nobody said capitalism is perfect but it is far more efficient and allows you to make your own purchasing decision or start a business if you wanted to and provide your own goods/services. Then in response these commie neckbeards act like the edgelords they are and say "oh you consumerist, get off your iphone, wake up" as they post on their laptop provided by the free market and use their goods or engage services provided by the free market, the hypocritical morons. It's not the 1900's anymore you backwards libcuck loons, embrace capitalism.
communism, eh
big government, authoritarian communism or some sort of syndicalism or left libertarianism
because if it's the big red, USSR, authoritrian type, you can just fuck right off.
>>69914410
"Muh free markets" which only work for Jews because they have accumulated the most capital.
How you gonna create a free market? They won't give you a free market, you need to take their property for that, their capital. Otherwise the game is always rigged somehow which is what we have now.
You gonna ask nicely for the money to be removed from politics? Bullshit. Most of the economy is government spending now, which goes into the hands of Jews who run industry.
>>69914715
>We're discussing ideologies here
Yeah ones that have been proven to be wrong and incompatible with human nature. Call me the retard all you want but the majority of Marx's theories have been debunked time and time again.
>>69902529
Fuck off. You're not even real collectivists. Democracy doesn't work, and it's about as individualistic as libertarianism, so is communism.
>>69914441
>>69914830
How does the Judaic religion tie to the communist ideology? Does the Torah say anything about the economy?
The communism you know is the one that's been twisted and manipulated by the same borgeious Jews it was formulated against. Hiding behind the mask of Marxism. Now Marxism itself is a bad name.
Maybe you faggots need to read about what Marx and Lenin theorized instead of the twisted ideology we see now.
>>69914866
No, it's Jewish culture. Capitalism is a Jewish revolution and a manifestation of their culture. They take your money from usury, or government taxes and regulations, insurance. They fuck your at every turn, no problems for you though because you think you can get rich. It's like the dumb niggers at the casino, the same effect.
They poison the media and your brain, and commit white genocide. And, oh it's cool I can start a business and decide between Burger King and McDonald's. And forget about coming together as a community because you are an "individual" who wants to be fat and not be told your a dipshit.
It's like I never see Nepal flags here, and today they're out in droves.
GUYS YOU'RE BRINGING THE VALUE DOWN
>>69914866
Maybe read the discussion before you post, you retarded, brainless cancer.
>>69914964
SO your concern is, the jews hold the capital and have the government in their pocket as industry leaders, so we should turn this around by engaging in authoritarian communism, so that our lives can now be run by said jews who will essentially run our lives? You see how backwards this is? How can we be sure they won't betray or destroy us? In Russia, Stalin killed millions of peasants in the narod just like Alexander and Nicholas before him, nothing changed. He sent millions to the gulags and made everyone's lives shitty, just like before. But at least there was industrial progress right? But if that's the motive, why not practice capitalism, as Russia and China eventually turned to, and it turned their countries into powerhouses? And then we have places like Europe that place full faith in their leaders as well, and look at Germany, cucked into oblivion because of their leaders. Don't assume your all powerful communist leader or duma or junta or what have you will have your best interest in mind.
At least capitalism gives you some power as opposed to nothing at all.
>>69915639
I have been you worthless green subhuman. It's the same thing, which is why I asked the question I did. You just can't answer it because you know I'm right.
>>69915324
It doesn't really connect to judaism as a religion, but I was pointing out how it was mostly jews who re-invented collectivism to communism. I don't care either way because I'm not anti-jew in a racial or idealogical sense. People have good and bad ideas from all backgrounds and races. Communism is a just a bad idea and has literally failed to create anything other than misery, poverty and death anywhere it has been tried.
>>69915334
See the only problem there is, Jew culture and pipe dreams be damned, I literally can and have gotten rich. Anyone can, I have done so. I'm not a billionaire, but I worked hard from a young age, got decent grades, and worked up the ladder or changed jobs until I was where I am now. It only took me 10 years to go from a shithead at McDonalds to a small business owner making more then decent money and poised to make even more. My brain is poisoned either way, at least I have alternatives now that aren't state owned. You're a giant hypocrite.
>>69915016
>Human nature
So by your logic, niggers are better because they indulge in base desires and have no sense of the greater good.
Fuck off.
The greatest things we've accomplished is by overcoming our nature. But I guess we should be living in jungles, flinging shit because writing a symphony is just not in our nature.
>>69916176
Yeah, and what did you accomplish? The same vicious cycle of what your fathers and forefathers did before you so that your son can do the same shit a little easier? Is that what you spent your whole life collecting wealth on?
Fuck all that. Sitting in the back seat and hoping someone who's not a wageslave like you can maybe progress mankind while you eat, sleep and shit. This is what capitalism is?
>>69916176
I should also add that communism always started out as, and still is, a Jewish revolution. It's hilarious to think otherwise. Marx and his commie buddies were all Jewish, religiously or ethnically, and modern commies are the same way. Even down the ladder to the individual level, the followers, you get the tatood, nose ringed degenerates with the purple hair who embrace Bernie Sanders and cry "down with capitalism" as they hold their Black Lives Matter signs, and you want to tell me Capitalism, the very thing they hate, is the true Jewish conspiracy? Fucking laughable. Look up marxism and the Frankfurt school, your ideology is the result of the downfall of the western world and why shithead Jews like George Soros are so powerful.
>>69915671
Why would you overthrow the Jew capitalist and then expect them to run communism? That's fucking dumbass logic. No, you get rid of them. Then you get rid of all the fucks who don't want to work or contribute to society. You use automated and slave labor to create a utopia. Society or the proletariat will determine what genetics are desirable for society. That means we decide.
Those peasants were dumb Mongol niggers he knew he had to get rid of them. And then they tried to get rid of the Jews, but they took offense to this shit and destroyed communism. Using the useful idiots in the west, whom they decided to destroy through cultural Marxism, which they spread to Eastern Europe after they destroyed communism. Thereby ensuring cultural Marxism spread to all of the white race.
>>69916709
No, I'm just surviving and enjoying my time on earth, like anyone under a communist regime. However unlike them, I provide goods and services and make capital off of this. Everyone wins. Another difference is, under capitalism, we can freely seek to use these services to further mankind like SpaceX and Elon Musk, who by the way is an unrepentant capitalist. We are moving on to space and greater things, where as communist and socialist countries are lagging behind, strangled to death by debt from their social safety nets and poor government purchasing decisions, something America has started to do as well unfortunately, taking the poison pill that opportunistic tyrants like Stalin and Merkel have been dealing out.
>>69916745
Plus faggot where did Soros come from the east? Nigger you are dumb as fuck. Cultural Marxism? From the capitalist west because the west is controlled by Jews. And you are brainwashed to attack anyone fighting the Jews.
>>69916756
No the peasents weren't just dumb mongrels, they were essential to maintaining agriculture and feeding the nation, under Nicholas and Alexander they owned a large majority of government land. Stolypin, the PM of the second Duma, enacted capitalist policies that would lead to huge amounts of peasent wealth and higher grain production for years before it was fucked up during the Communist revolution. As someone who has actually read more then 1 history book, it dissapoints me to see people preach communism with all the knowledge at their disposal. But I see replies like yours and remember that they're usually edgy and misinformed teenagers or SJW's who want to take down capitalism because of the Jewish conspiracy/the Patriarchy, take your pick.
>>69917268
Stop acting so sensitive princess, take a breath why don't you. Cultural Marxism came out of communist, Jew owned Russia. It spread like a cancer to Europe and since then, leftist cocksuckers like Soros have tried to spread it to the capitalist western world and destroy our way of life, and useful idiots like you praise communism as an agent of anti-Jewry. Historical precedent shows you couldn't be more wrong.
Music, Comrades!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0_kzJp-Pp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDz8jtMrm9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrpXArn3hII
>Nearly all creators of Utopia have resembled the man who has toothache, and therefore thinks happiness consists in not having toothache. They wanted to produce a perfect society by an endless continuation of something that had only been valuable because it was temporary. The wider course would be to say that there are certain lines along which humanity must move, the grand strategy is mapped out, but detailed prophecy is not our business. Whoever tries to imagine perfection simply reveals his own emptiness.
>"Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun"
>>69917998
>Cultural Marxism
Frankfurt School scholars were financed by Western intelligence agencies. Ever ask yourself why the CIA would want people bitching about cultural appropriation? Or why America is the faggot central?
>>69917120
Shameful.. Absolutely shameful. So take up space and participate in the rat race.
And of course Musk is a capitalist. He's one out of 7 billion that was lucky and slipped through the cracks of nepotism and Jewery.
And also remember, he's one person out of 7 billion working on his project. Think about 7 billion people contributing directly to the SpaceX program. We'd be sipping tea in Mars right now with holograms.
>>69917704
I grew up in Krasnoyarsk, we used to sell meat from our pig at the market and got 3 rubles for it and would buy it for ruble. Communism was good I remember it well, the 90s were shit and couldn't find food "freedom" they called it. And spread cultural Marxism told us how to live, spread faggotry. I never see so many degenerate niggers and faggots than when I came to Detroit MI, my family think we would live in paradise, now I know that Gorbachev was a traitor. Fuck your western nigger society.
>>69914410
>free market
To a classical economist a "free market" meant a market free of unearned income. So monopoly power, unfair competition, maybe private banking needed to be abolished.
What does it mean to you?
>>69917998
After cultural degeneration came from the west.
>>69919160
>Musk
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html
Nothing more than a parasite who has stolen incredible amounts of public wealth.
>>69919160
I'm done debating you, it's like talking to a child. I can raise a good point but you're purely dismissive, apathetic, and weak. The only word you can spout is Jewry, which is the foundation of communism and Marxism.
>>69919744
Remember to go the synagogue Jew.
>>69919216
That's unfortunate, but you may be one of the first testimonies I have seen online that wants communism to come back. I have seen far to many people praise the newfound wealth and variety of food they found after capitalist policies were instituted. And this degeneracy of which you speak is another agent of Cultural Marxism, inspired by the one and only Karl Marx, a jew, which you commies have continued to bash without realizing it is the foundation of your ideology.
>>69919943
Well meme'd friend. Also not sure if satire or not, but I'll assume it's the former.
>>69902529
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jiMzKRlT2g
>>69902529
Reporting in, comrades
>>69902529
Because I have a hard enough time dealing with a privately owned corporate headquarters which is accountable to the public.
>>69919553
But why? Because of the frankfurt school, a prominent proponent of Cultural Marxism. What is that? The social thinking style that came from the political philosopher Karl Marx, a Jew and the Jesus Christ of communists.
>>69902529
I know too much about communism to support it.
>>69902529
I'm already in guys.
>>69906464
if shitty communism is not real communism then shitty capitalism is not real capitalism.
>>69919693
I thought commies wanted public wealth and government subsidization towards state-sanctioned goals and efforts? But since he is a capitalist he is now a parasite, despite being one of the foremost companies in the field of technological research and space exploration. Laughable.
>>69909023
That sounds like capitalism. So why use a inferior commie system?
>>69920096
Capitalist, liberal degeneracy, tbqhwy.
>>69919744
>Dismissive
I don't have to repeat the points I've already made.
And your point was what? Poor communist countries? This entire discussion is on the ideology of communism and how a good communist society will always be miles ahead of any capitalistic society.
The state of utopia is that you finish your job and then you do whatever the fuck you want. Paint, write, fuck 50 hookers. Not participate in some bullshit rat race to "make it" or pay off your house and your loans like every other fucker is doing.
Why do you think some 19th century crap Marx made up without any actual data has relevance to today?
I say fuck communism and fuck capitalism. Come up with a falsifiable, modern theory.
>>69920003
We had no cultural Marxism in the Soviet Union. That's what the Americans preached when they tried to come to us and make democracy everywhere. Cried about our anti gay laws and told us to allow Muslims to open mosques. Cried about rights of everyone we "abused". It came from the west not us, was inspired by the Jews living in the west who wanted communism destroyed because it was a threat.
Jews seduced Gorbachev and he was a cuck for the west.
>>69906464
The moment one is able to dictate the labor of a commune, they become the bourgeois. When individuals are allowed the fruits of their own labor, there is human development on a large scale without the need for a planned economy.
The only thing that prevents this development is when states seek to gain power from the taxation and extortion of it's citizens.
>>69902529
Anyone who isn't a total edge lord would love to live in a classless society where everyone is treated as equal and has the same chances as everyone else.
But... Anyone with any brains also understands that it can't happen in foreseeable future without the whole system collapsing due to the lack of resources paired with greed.
We'll need a whole new renaissance in order for humanity to be prepared for communism... Basically, you could say that the "technology" is not there yet, and anyone who wants to live in a communist society in today's circumstances is either a brain-dead idiot or social masochist.
>>69920836
Well said bro.
>>69920590
Someone get this fucker a book on employment and businesses.
Jobs are created by businesses, you dumb motherfucker. In capitalism, you get in the rat race to build buisnesses all on your own. If you "make it", you become obscenely and disproportionately wealthy.
The government builds and handles buisnesses in communism. Your job is to work and then do whatever the fuck you want the rest of the time.
>>69902529
Because capitalism without monopolies is Utopia
>>69920782
>We
>Us
>Evil West
>American flag
That aside, using the yolk of a forced morality is something that Communism always enforced which is exactly why they turned their churches into grain-stores or tore them down. They sought to do away with any entity that was separate from the state.
>>69907659
>what do you want
>yeah well this wasn't real communism and wasn't what I wanted okay
>>69920583
>I thought commies wanted public wealth and government subsidization towards state-sanctioned goals and efforts?
Towards public goals with oversight. Not some asshole robbing billions from the state.
>>69920205
That's like calling Krugman a Keynesian. They have abandoned the key ideas that made those thinkers great. It is about class, nigger.
>>69920471
Fair enough, but you'd need to define capitalism.
Adam Smith, Keynes, Marx all desribed a market system in which the means of production are privatly owned.
They all moved towards greater role of the state in the economy.
http://michael-hudson.com/2016/03/the-inversion-of-classical-economics/
As said even by this social democrat.
>>69921031
>Someone get this fucker a book on employment and businesses.
Strange that you project so much
>>69920836
Why don't we have that renaissance? Progress starts from us. And if we sit around running the same hamster mill every generation, nothing's ever going to change.
>>69920964
R A R E xD
A
R
E
xD
>>69921031
And under capitalism everyone will always be more wealthy than they would be under communism, despite some people being much more wealthy than others under capitalism.
Funny how that works out, huh pal?
>>69921177
Did you even read what I wrote, you absolute waste of a basement dweller?
Could we like, modify the value of labor so that it is measured in calories?
>>69904478
Steel in the US went to shit because Communist China dumped all their excess steel on us for cheap, because they overproduced it
>>69920723
I raised points about the inefficiencies of social safety nets and government spending, hallmarks of communism, that are/have strangled EU countries that practice them, while capitalism has allowed for innovations and industrial progress. My example was Elon Musk and SpaceX, but you said he got lucky and slipped through the cracks because of Jewry. Has every successful capitalist, EVERY single one, done the same? You can only spout that meme for so long before you realize the successes of capitalism. We're not participating in a rat race as you call it, we're perfectly satisfied with life on Earth. Even the poorest Americans are among the richest people on Earth with many utilities and services at their disposal. This is far from the dystopian rat race picture you try to paint. A Communist society has and will always fail.
>>69921031
>Your job is to work and then do whatever the fuck you want the rest of the time
What's the problem with doing this in a capitalist system? In capitalism, most people can work an eight hour day and have two days off every week which is a LOT more free time than anything communism has been able to achieve.
Those who "make it big" employ thousands of others and give them labor that fulfills a market demand which by nature improves the quality of life for everyone.
>>69921272
Funny that the Jews are the ones who control the wealth in the capitalist society you brag about cuck. Do you get off to seeing how much money And power Jews have the same way you get off watching a nigger fuck your wife?
>>69921182
>And if we sit around running the same hamster mill every generation
Are you implying there is no social progress through history?
Look, every communist regime failed. That is, every regime that tried to ''build'' communism.
You can't build communism through centralized economy and dictatorship.
Another thing that's bad about communism is ''people are more divided by class'' bullshit. No they aren't. Maybe in future they will be, but point is that has to be evolution, not a bloody revolution to impose something.
>>69921272
Jesus, are you really that dumb?
What the hell are you spending all that "wealth" on? The same shit a communist governments would provide you? Paying for your education? Participating in worthless consumerism so that you can show off your brand new iCuck?
You are really very shallow, aren't you?
>>69921476
Yeah, in communism the Jews are the state instead, you hypocritical fuck.
>>69902529
I used to be a leftist. I read books like Das Kapital and The Conquest of Bread. Was a Marxist for several years. Then I graduated from university and realized socialists were contrarian, idealistic, edgy assholes. The anti-white shit eventually got to be too much. Then the SJW and PC stuff pushed me over the edge. I faced economic and social realities. Now I think like the guy in pic related.
>>69921401
>hallmarks of communism
Socialism, not communism.
>strangled EU
EU was and is strangled by societal practices that don't come from communism. They come from capitalist liberalism.
>Elon Musk
Guy who received shitload of government subsidy? Are you serious?
>successes of capitalism
>Americans
America was a fucking empty continent incredibly rich with arable land and resources, and with low population density.
You had it on easy mode. Your success doesn't really mean your breed of capitalism is the only way.
In fact, look at what's going on in your country, how rotten it has become. And you lasted what, 2 centuries?
>>69921678
The revolution was against the bourgeois aka Jews. Who the fuck do you think they were talking about? Why did they have such a hard on for getting rid of communism? Because it's against capitalist masters aka Jews who you defend like the most skilled cuck of all.
>>69921476
No, but I get off on knowing that whites are still the majority of wealthy people and that that nigger that's fucking my ex wife will never be wealthy.
>>69921654
>The same shit a communist governments would provide you?
You mean the stuff that won't ever be made because the government is too busy trying to produce real industry and food to feed its starving and poor people to produce any luxuries?
The question remains, why should anyone settle for an inefficient system that makes everything worse for everyone, when we can just have capitalism? To stroke your over inflated ego and sense of victimhood?
>>69921467
Yes, but what are you working for? To buy a house, a car?
Communism provides that for you and you aren't working on a cubicle out of necessity, it's for the greater good.
>>69921757
>SJW
>PC
>anti-white
All products of liberal capitalism.
Your ''socialists'' aren't socialist. They are just ''progressive'', while totally ignoring real problems, or at best paying lip service to them.
>>69921970
>A communist government
>Inefficiency
>Literally every citizen working on a same thing at the same time
Any more fallacies?
>>69921943
The Tsars?
The West HAD a hard on for getting rid of Communism BEFORE Jewish control of global banking. Now more than ever, the "elite" want control of both the market and the state so they can manipulate the market into filling their pockets (AKA Planned Economy)
The West is becoming more socialist than ever and the Jews are at the head of practically every socialist movement in the Western world.
>>69922065
Not sure what you mean, buddy. Unless you're referring to hardcore old-school Stalinists, most socialists nowadays support queer movements and other forms of degeneracy. Some aspects of socialism I can tolerate, but they need to exist in a nationalistic context. Globalism and multiculturalism (international proletarian unity) means nothing to me.
>>69922451
Where? In West.
Socialists in Eastern Europe usually don't support such shit.
Problem is modern ''socialists'' in West don't think the way every socialist should: how it affects society as whole.
They aren't socialist.
>but they need to exist in a nationalistic context
Couldn't agree more.
>>69922065
>>69921844
This man knows what he's talking about.
>>69921970
Communism is a form of an economic and governmental structure. Socialism and Marxism are a form of a social structure. Don't confuse the two.
Capitalism is flawed in that one person who becomes successful can have a stranglehold on the economy and all the priviledge.
His company collapses, the economy crashed.
And why the fuck does the son get to go to Juilliard or Harvard or Yale because the father was successful?
>>69922036
The greater good in the eyes of the capitalist is having capital to utilize to fulfill your needs and your wants. This is by nature aligned with the pressures that humanity faces on a day to day basis.
FUCK Communism but I do side with good
Not a big fan of capitalism, but modern left is shit
Its either starbucks iPad SJW cunts or retarded anarcokiddies
>>69921182
>Why don't we have that renaissance?
Quite a few reasons why it would be pretty hard to get one right now:
>1. "progressive" ideas
Leftists ideas right now are more dangerous toward common people than you think. They're trying to make all kinds of sexual and social deviations completely normal.
Leftists are also too radical right now, and the most radical ideas tend to lead revolutions. There is simply no space for healthy liberal ideas to be voiced to the masses right now, without them being hijacked or censored by cucks and the degenerate media.
>2. evil communists - the truth and the meme
There were simply too much dangerous leaders of communist regimes in 20th century, and it doesn't help that most of them were anti-western.
Also there was too much anticommunist propaganda during cold-war that you simply can't undo the effects of it easily. Even millenials were caught by it, either directly, or indirectly (through their parents opinions)
>3. What's the point if we are all gonna be piss poor?
We don't have enough resources to maintain a communist system right now for longer than couple of decades. We need better technology in order for it to be come easier to obtain resources, or find a way to utilize cheaper and renewable ones more easily (and also more frequently).
>4. There are too many people who don't want to be the same as everyone else...
...and I'm not talking just about your average edge lord here... Nah, how do you think your average radical Muslim would react if someone told him "Hey Abdul, you can't really build a mosque... we secular and shit now."
There's also a problem of a lot of common people being employed by filthy rich people who simply don't want to give up their money... If government decides it's time for those fuckers to step down, you'll have millions (hell, even billions if it goes global) of people losing jobs...
>>69922783
Comrade Dzhugashvili please.
>>69922680
And communism removes those pressures. Your basic needs are met, now go out there and advance humanity.
>>69902529
>one man's paradise is another man's puragorty
>>69922971
What's so horrible about having all your basic needs met, having a fair start in life, no societal pressure of any sort, working on a common goal for the greater good?
>>69922596
If Eastern Europe and other regions have a nationalistic form of socialism that puts their countrymen first before immigrants and wealthy capitalists, I'm all for that. But the majority of the socialist movement here is so fucking cucked that I fear it will never change. For now, the best politicians here are right-wing populists. After all, Trump's anti-TPP and America first policies are particularly nationalistic, and therefore anti-globalist.
>>69922879
>without them being hijacked or censored by cucks and the degenerate media.
Products of liberal capitalism.
It's profitable in short-term? It's fine. That's the only logic they follow.
Even American Founding Fathers like Jefferson spoke of dangers of rich corporations and banks having too much power and no responsibility.
Now their unwitting shills call you a commie if you dare imply that dues to society must be paid.
>>69902529
>utopia
>still taking Hegelian dialetics seriously
>ISHYGDDT
>>69922925
Then why restrict people from living up to their fullest potential? I agree with the idea that everyone should have their basic needs met, but from there on in the world should be their oyster. Why not reward the greatest minds for their innovations? Why have them be treated, on paper, the same as a toilet cleaner?
>>69922255
>>69922621
Stop oppressing my capitalist privilege you fucking shitlord
>why the fuck does the song get to go to Juilliard or Harvard or Yale
this part is a joke though too right
>>69922879
Indeed. Maybe when we can automate every specialized job, a Marxist society might even be feasible.
But we should begin working towards such a community.
>>69922925
There is absolutely no guarantee that the state will fulfill your basic needs or desires and it exists to quell discontentment before there is ever enough traction for revolution. You're faced with the exact same problem that Socrates was faced with when designing the perfect city state. It would practically require a god ("philosopher king" as he put it) to utilize his power in a constructive way for all as well as a full control of media (muses) and education (indoctrination). In capitalism, self interest guarantees the ability for each individual to rely upon themselves to meet their own needs and desires. This incentives people to innovate and exploit resources/opportunities that would otherwise be overlooked by someone who is not in their life's position.
>>69923140
Because they are false socialists.
>I fear it will never change
Without people doing shit? Of course it won't.
>Trump
Trump isn't bad in theory. However he switches his opinions so often I honestly have no idea what are his stances.
>>69921273
Yeah and what you wrote was retarded
>In capitalism, you get in the rat race to build buisnesses all on your own. If you "make it", you become obscenely and disproportionately wealthy.
Sounds good
>The government builds and handles buisnesses in communism.
Even in your example Capitalism is better.
First of all the private sector does buissnes better then the goverment, so building a communistic society is pretty dumb.
>Your job is to work and then do whatever the fuck you want the rest of the time.
That is pretty much the best part about capitalism. So why give that up for a soceity where everyone is poor as fuck. That is stupid, but that is marxism for you, stupidity for the stupid and drag the rest down.
>>69923431
That's only argument against Soviet-style socialism, and a good one.
But problem is you people extend that argument to every style of socialism.
So from ''state can't baby-sit everyone'' you come to ''state is totally incompetent''.
There is no alternative to state (yet).
>>69923140
This is a sensible answer, that's what I'm talking about.
>>69923218
Because they are all workers. This is what communism is. Every man adanves society in his own way. Besides, when menial and specialized jobs are automated, we'll have all the free time to advance culture and the sciences. This is utopia.
Not capitalism where the idea is spoken but it's just a system of wealth inequality.
See>>69922621
>>69923722
No reason to expect capitalism to fufill your needs either. We had no problems until capitalism in the 90s destroyed our markets, people used to have no problems finding bread in the 80s.
No thanks OP
Im like cured from ur decease
*1984 intensifies*
>>69923631
Maybe read the thread some more. Your idea of capitalism is propagandist and full of oxymorons.
>>69924063
There are two types of equality. The good kind, equality of opportunity; and the evil kind, equality of results. Not many but the greediest and wealthiest of kikes argue that capitalism is perfect but it by far the best and most efficient system of wealth distribution we've dreamed up so far.
Communism restricts the strong while supporting the weak. It is the antithesis of evolution.
>>69923722
That's mostly because as a culture, Westerners have propagated and shed blood for hundreds of years to obtain relative independence from oppressive governments. Of course not every aspect of a state is bad, but socialism does delegate an awful lot of power to the state at the expense of those who would otherwise thrive without it.
In the United States, there are quite a few justifiable reasons for taxation (socialism) but there are also many unjustified reasons. If there were no state to subsidize the toxic lifestyle of welfare queens (just one example of many) they would be forced to find work despite their disability or face the threat of poverty.
Just like in nature, when faced with a problem you must either adapt or face the consequences of being at the mercy of that problem.
Ideally, this taxation would be used to train/educate/and find work for these people who would otherwise struggle.
>>69923157
>Products of liberal capitalism.
Then you could also say that the gulags were products of communism.
It doesn't work like that.
Even if media was completely state run, those degenerate ideas could still be propagated if they benefited the ruling class and right now (at least in the west) they do.
>dues to society must be paid
But rich people do exactly that. They (excluding those live off their dad's fortune) already provide jobs for tons of people, they invest money in the stuff (more money = better results with pretty much anything), most of them even give large amounts of money to charity in order to get better image in public... and of course, they already pay a lot of taxes.
You must have one thing in mind that is very dangerous when it comes to communist economy. You need a lot of resources in order to provide everyone with a good life, and more resources you get the harder it is for one group of people to use them effectively... if communist economy progresses, then at one point there's just too much job for a government to do... Those rich people make lives of those in government (and therefore ours as well) much easier.
Maybe when something Nepal said ( >>69923377 ) is possible communism will be much more feasible... Actually, it might be a better idea to just strive for technological progress right now... it might have it's fair share of dangers but it's probably the best way to do it.
>>69924072
>No reason to expect capitalism to fufill your needs either.
I'm not arguing against capitalism. I'm arguing against a typically American vision of capitalism, which arguably worked and works for you on international level (but seems to be failing at national level).
I'm just arguing that capitalism/globalism/neoliberalism in practice has to be restrained, not that Soviet-style socialism should be reinstated.
>>69923135
because that is not what communism does and you know it. You had to wait many years to get a car or a house. Hard to advance humnity when you are shit poor without any motive for inovation.
It leads to a shortage in every part of the market and leads to that the shitty parts of society becoming the norm and the smart and hard working becoming prosecuted
>>69924455
I'd just like to add that while communism does train it's workforce and find them work, they do not allow them to delegate the fruits of their labor as they wish which is the crux of my argument against communism.
Is communism the economic form of AIDS? Let's review:
Communism:
- Classless
- Equal
- Free
- Redistributes easily
- Invasive
- Hijacks an immune system
- Mandatory compliance upon contraction
AIDS:
(see Communism)
>>69923431
Yes! Finally not a dumbfuck!
And those are some very valid points. I agree with you in that sustaining and starting a communist society is borderline difficult in even the most nationalist and honest of societies.
But a good communist government will always be better than a good capitalist one.
>>69922621
Reading your posts ITT I can tell by your general attitude that you are some bitter kid that has never worked for anything in his life. Of course communism is attractive to you. You have no sense of class. Your existence is bitter contempt for everyone who has more money or a hotter girl than you.
Yet, you want everyone to think like you. To be a herd. A hivemind. Well, I'm not your equal, cuck. You have a filthy attitude, evidence of a mind abundant in impurities and lacking of self discipline.
>>69924732
>but a good communist government
Utter fiction unfortunately
>>69924359
strange how that also works with your flawed view about communism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UASyS-jUKKI&index=46&list=PLC787958DD0D029F7
>Marx humorously responded to Torrens: “No doubt this ‘first stick’ [Stock in German] would also explain why stock is synonymous with capital” (Marx 1977, p. 291, n. 10), knowing full well that the low hanging fruit of early capitalism was a violent seizure of other people’s means of production.
>Later, with creation the North American Free Trade Agreement, U.S. business routinely confronted unions with the threat that they would relocate to Mexico unless workers agreed to substantial cuts in wages and benefits.
>In contrast, Friedman’s vision was one of pure redistribution. The goal was not to wage war against less developed nations or the established colonial powers, but against domestic labor. Putting pressure on labor would increase profits by lowering wages. Even better, unions would lose power, lowering the resistance to modern primitive accumulation. In this respect, Friedman’s analysis had more in common with Karl Marx than Adam Smith.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/04/16/a-short-history-of-primitive-accumulation/
>>69921757
So you want to kill white children, impoverish white countries so that natives can't afford children and move political power to unaccountable elites so they can bring in more obedient workforce from Africa?
>>69924811
I feel ashamed for you in that you cannot participate in a discussion without being judgemental and getting personal.
I wonder how easy life must be with that limited amount of thought process...
I'm a straight white male. Pretty sure I'd be the first one into the gulag.
A communist society would just let human instinct run riot. All Marxists hate the family unit, they see it as "reactionary". With no morals you'd just have Comrade Chad forming harems and the workers slaving away. Marx loved the idea of primitive communism but humans need a firm fist to keep them in line. Egalitarianism is a retarded ideal.
>>69924495
>that the gulags were products of communism
Soviet-style socialism? Yes, they were.
>those degenerate ideas could still be propagated if they benefited the ruling class
So ruling class must be disciplined.
>But rich people do exactly that.
Yes they do. Some. Some actively work against the society that made them (besides their own talents of course) I'm not arguing against rich people or wealth. I'm arguing against consumerism, globalism, and all other cancers that arise from (neo)liberal capitalism. Until we achieve social and technological level that Nepal bro is suggesting, communism is impossible utopia.
>then at one point there's just too much job for a government to do
That could be discussed but I'm not really arguing for centralized economy.
>>69924455
>awful lot of power to the state
Difference is state is responsible to people.
And I hear you about your government. But my point is, those aren't bad practices, it's just that your government is shit man.
>>69925103
I participated by mentioning the evident truth that you're a loud bum who has never made money.
You're bitter. It's written all over your attitude. Forget the underlying philosophy for a second. You should face the reality that you don't know what you're talking about.
If you actually worked hard and made money you would never be content with redistributing the proceeds with those who you are so quick to belittle.
>>69902529
Utopia can only be realized when all of us cease to exist. Nice bait, tho.
>>69924565
I can't tell if you are legitimately shitposting or can't really form a coherent opinion other than what's been drilled into your head.
I'm only replying to you one more time. Stay on topic and discuss the ideology itself.
>>69905141
I remember years ago communist writings sprayed on the walls of my city (plaermo, sicily) that were praising the strong communist government of nepal.
how's doing now?
>>69925600
What's the point in discussing the ideology without discussing the reality of the situation when said ideology is put into practice?
>>69924732
Dai the biggest problem, for western nations, is we are individualistic (be it a person or immediate family) and as such socialism will never work here (or anywhere really).
We have too diverse a background and culture here to allow for the kinds of broad centralized decision making required for socialism to operate while not pissing off large segments of the population.
Does anyone know anything about National Bolshevism?
>>69925420
I'd rather discuss why you feel the need to personally attack me when you're losing a discussion.
Is it because you feel that your propagandist society has been blinding you this whole time and when someone lifts the veil you suddenly become blinded by the truth?
In other words, go fuck yourself burger. You culture includes slapping a piece of meat between two slices of bread and calling it "cuisine".
>>69925755
Exactly my point as well.
Just look at this guy and think about where the ideology is coming from. A loud bum.
Communists are generally bitter poorfags or malevolent, power-hungry men who wish to use their resources to further subvert populations, using this ideology as a motivator.
>>69926009
Losing a discussion? I never discussed anything with you. I read what you were posting though and stepped in to call you out on your shit attitude.
You're a loud bum. Why would I want to sit around and shovel shit with you?
>>69924565
>You had to wait many years to get a car or a house. Hard to advance humnity when you are shit poor without any motive for inovation.
Let me fix that for you:
>You had to wait many years to get a car or a house IN SOVIET UNION. Hard to advance humnity when you are shit poor without any motive for inovation.
I'm against communist society as much as the next edge lord, but these arguments suck and will not be useful once the whole "communists want to nuke 'Murica" maymay dies... In their respective times, people used to hate Caesar, Genghis Khan, Ottoman Empire, Napoleon, Austro-Hungary... we don't talk much about them in a bad light today, and we even tend to take ideas from them.
If USA had a bigger government it could totally provide everyone with great life for at least a couple decades since it has massive economy, so the lack of motivation would not be a problem there.
>>69925366
>Soviet-style socialism? Yes, they were.
No... There is really no "soviet-style socialism" to speak of. There were simply too many ideological differences between different leaders that it just makes no sense to mash them all together.
It's not communism that's at fault for gulags, it's sick individuals. Just like it's sick individuals that are pushing for degenerate ideas right now.
>So ruling class must be disciplined
And how do you propose we do that? Constitution? Yeah, that only holds value in USA, rest of the world changes their laws more frequently than an average Montenegrin guy changes his cell phones.
>That could be discussed but I'm not really arguing for centralized economy.
And how do we live in classless society if economy isn't centralized or at least heavily (like really heavily) regulated?
>>69925755
Because it's an ideological discussion of and ideology that's been wrapped under propoganda and lies for a generation.
>>69902529
We're not scared.
You should be scared.
>>69902529
literally kill yourself commie
>>69925981
National Bolshevism is basically Nazism (Strasserism).
>>69925366
The state is responsible for it's people in the same way that a company is loyal to their consumers as being a human is the commonality between the two.
>The company will seek to create the largest profit margins possible (this often means a sub-par product but then again the people are given the freedom to pay only what they see the item being worth to them so there is a natural equilibrium between quality/cost)
>The state will constantly seek the representation of the state as an entity in the same way. They will give excellent wages for work that otherwise has little or no demand, they will constantly seek to grow the government for the purpose of job security, they will collude with one another in the same way shareholders make joint decisions for profit, and are given more power than a business as there is no "rejecting" the services of the state. Taxation is mandatory and therefore, spending is not at the discretion of the people.
A great example of this is how the British government imposed a tea tax on the American colonies. This caused an otherwise obtainable commodity to be unobtainable. The people could not innovate to make tea more easily available as the tax was mandatory.
Since this tax was imposed upon them by the threat of force, they had to either accept the consequence of high-price tea, or initiate force against the state to give the state a reason to conform to their desires.
>>69926175
>>69926027
Feel free to leave. I'm sure the 50 folds of fat you call a stomach are rumbling because you haven't shoved a hot dog down your gullet for a full minute.
>>69902529
>Why don't you want to work towards utopia?
There is no utopia.
>>69926382
How does it differ from Hitlers national socialism?
Is there private property?
>>69925751
We have stability now. And there never was a "strong communist government". Media lies, all of that.
Hell, we just managed to draft a constitution last year!
>>69926491
>it's
its*
>>69926242
But I'm not arguing for communism friend, just mixed socialism.
>There is really no "soviet-style socialism" to speak of
Of course there is. It's single-party dictatorship with centralized economy. That's very broad of course but fitting.
>it's sick individuals
Everything is sick individuals, but ''sick'' ideas lead to that too.
>And how do you propose we do that?
We elect or give power to people who will do that obviously.
>>69926284
All communists regimes spoke perfectly clearly for themselves, no propaganda necessary. The USSR achieved many great things under communism but that is more a testament to the will of the Russian people rather than your ideology. China and the rest of the communist nations took nothing other than a Great Leap Backwards when applying their ideology.
Frankly I don't know enough about Marx and his ideology to comment on it in itself. But I do know about history. And all communist states were miserable failures.
>>69925814
Revolutions are a part of us. Society should always look for change. If not, we'd still be under a monarchy fighting the same wars we would have had since thousands of years ago.
And, "Dai"? Nepalese, are we?
>>69926640
Yes there is, but they generally argue for centralized economy.
It's basically radical Nazism minus Führerprinzip and racial-based bullshit.
They still hated Jews but mainly rich Jews and from anti-capitalist perspective, not racial perspective.
>>69926922
But there was propoganda. Still is. From both sides. "Commie" is used as a term for traitor.
I'm not a supporter of communism. In fact, I think a longer libertarian, democratic government with as few social programs as possible is best.
But I had to skew the discussion because it's like discussing real fascism, nationalism and socialism with a group of high strung SJWs. You have to point out more good than bad.
>>69927423
Thanks for info
>>69927681
Your ideas are good, but it really sounded like you're arguing for revival of USSR m8.
Communist economic theory teaches that total consolidation increases efficiency. The problem with consolidation is that if it goes too far it eliminates competition. The dissolution of national identities in favor of a massive coalition is the advent of communists and globalists.
When nationalities dissolve a new, less effective form of competition emerges. The mass plebeian workforce and the state. This model is sure to limit ingenuity and innovation because when culture consolidates, people begin to think the same. It becomes an autocratic hivemind.
In a vacuum, however, communism isn't inherently flawed. Only when applied to our circumstances. If there were multiple planets competing for example and the people of earth decided to adopt a communism framework, external competition and trade would still exist.
Communism is the will to hivemind. It's dangerous and regressive because it's theories are filled with lies. Reductionist doublethink like redefining experience and reducing all cultural history into buzzwords like "feudalism" or "historical materialism" or "promise communism". These are all over simplifications. Furthermore, communism is a shitty materialist philosophy because it is filled with lies. It doesn't hold a candle to great Hellenistic philosophies like Stoicism or Epicureanism.
>Of course there is. It's single-party dictatorship with centralized economy. That's very broad of course but fitting.
Yeah, and Ukraine is a multi-party state with free economy, it's totally the same as USA.
No, seriously, there were too many differences between Lenin and Stalin already that many people classify Stalin's ideology as a separate form of communism - dogmatic Marxism (you can also talk about it when it comes to Pol Pot for example).
And even in later stages of USSR there were huge differences in views among leaders... I mean just compare Khrushchev, Brezhnev and Gorbachov.
>We elect or give power to people who will do that obviously.
That's not a good answer... It's like letting your parents decide which field you're gonna study at the university, just because they have more experience in life.
>>69920723
>The state of utopia is that you finish your job and then you do whatever the fuck you want. Paint, write, fuck 50 hookers. Not participate in some bullshit rat race to "make it" or pay off your house and your loans like every other fucker is doing.
nice one, edgemaster.
Under your own premise, painting, writing and hookers are, again, by your own definition, "rat race".
Fucking hell its almost like im talking with a child
Oh wait
>>69902675
Because communism didn't destroy your country, Lietnam.
>>69928202
"Primitive communism" not "promise communism"
Fuckin autocorrect
>>69928320
How is flourishing culture through the arts (at your leisure) and banging 50 hookers a rat race? I don't understand. It's a hobby, a passion, indulgence.
Are you paying off your loans/mortgage doing that?
>>69928209
>No, seriously, there were too many differences between Lenin and Stalin already
But I'm not even talking about Stalin necessarily.
Stalin was very close to Hitler.
>And even in later stages of USSR there were huge differences in views among leaders
I'm talking about that. USSR before Stalin and after Stalin. That is Soviet-style socialism. Similar regimes rose in most socialist countries. They were either more or less totalitarian, but that's two modes of Soviet-style socialism.
As I said: single-party dictatorship, centralized economy. You'll find these two aspects in every state I refer to.
>Yeah, and Ukraine is a multi-party state with free economy
I get your point, but there was far more similarity between USSR and China and Vietnam.
Besides USA is kinda similar to Ukraine, only richer and more ''civilized''.
>I mean just compare Khrushchev, Brezhnev and Gorbachov
Don't forget Kosygin.
>That's not a good answer...
But what can I answer?
Could it fail? Everything could fail.
>>69912120
National Socialism is the answer
>>69922783
That's nothing mate. I went 2 steps left of the box
>Communism and socialism "fuck private ownership LMAO, lets share everything"
>Every implementation of it has resulted in either death of millions, slavery, totalitarian states, scarcity, poverty, famine, or horrible living standards
>Only reason it ever achieves anything is because it spends the nation's entire wealth on stupid shit like a fucking space programme when the people are starving
>Every """social democracy""" ever eventually stagnates and loses wealth to support its welfare state, having to go back to pure capitalism
>Capitalism "This is yours. This is mine. Lets trade."
>Every successful nation ever
>>69922036
>Communism provides that for you and you aren't working on a cubicle out of necessity, it's for the greater good.
>greater good
Ingsoc is over there, fgt.
>>69929482
>Argues against communist brainwashing
>Pic of consumerist capitalist company that's """""""""against brainwashing"""""""""
How are you and your friends enjoying the new iCuck? Did you stand on line for 2 months and are you buying a new one next year.
>>69929174
National socialism is always the answer.
>>69929472
Sure, it isn't like your viewpoint is biased or anything, right?
Read the discussion before posting, faggot.
>>69929081
>As I said: single-party dictatorship, centralized economy.
And how exactly do you plan to have a classless society without these? Dictatorship is a key element of communism.
If there's more than one party (or more than one political current inside of the ruling one), you're gonna have a polarization of society...
Say, I like candidate A and you like candidate B. Both of them are commies, but some of their policies that affect both of us differ. Based on who wins, one of us is getting a more privileged treatment than the other...
Now, it might be something that doesn't look to be all that big of a deal, but if you make that kind of precedent once, suddenly everyone will want more of that shit.
>But what can I answer?
You should have some kind of an idea how to restraint ruling class... You can't just rely on someone to come out there and be like "Yo! I know how to make sure none of these rich faggots are gonna ruin your lives anymore. You feel me niggas?"
After all if you have some sort of idea and study it, it's easier to evaluate other ideas even if they are much different than your own. Basically, making a choice between two or more options becomes much easier.
>>69929760
Of course it was produced in a capitalist country.
Communist countries don't create shit. It's forced incentive and everyone's thinking the same.
Why don't you fuck off to North Korea.
>>69922925
And how exactly can one individual advance humanity, if your goverment virtually encompasses all the virtues and qualities that you can possibly search for?
Can you answer that? Or im just expecting too much from an edgemaster?
Edit: either way 0/10 back to school.
>>69926567
TL;DR I can picture you closing your eyes to punctuate your sentences like a pompous little shit.
You come off as underage and uneducated. There is no shortage of young cocksure faggots who think they know everything in the world and don't want to have to work for anything but "revolution." They focus on social status and victimization rather than working towards rewards because they are brainwashed pussies.
You are one of them. You are a little bitch. The moment the big hand stops feeding you and stroking your back calling you special you collapse to the floor in the fetal position crying for more handouts and free time. Yet you will drag all of us down into your little super cool socialist fantasy world discussion where forced labor and planned food stocks are the only reality and "free" is an oppressive state that we all suffer in. Poor us.
You have no real job and survive on the good will of wealthy friends or family. If you got to spend one day farming grain in your shithole paradise you would probably come home and eat a bullet out of embarrassment.
>>69930884
Leaf, I think you said it better than I did but this was exactly what I was thinking.
>>69928716
Thats a question YOU should be asking yourself, friendo.
>>69920723
>>69929949
>Read the discussion before posting, faggot.
I really don't need to. There's nothing you can tell me to make my think socialism is anything but degenerative ideology that trades prosperity, technological and social advances for a temporary bliss, before its self-destructive nature has the nation implode on itself.
As far as world history, and contemporary history goes, socialism is THE ideology you go to, if you hate freedom and an ever advancing society.
Even mild implementation of this bullshit dogma that socialist will sell as a "vanguard for the disadvantaged" will destroy your country. It's only a matter of how rapidly. Denmark? Most socialist nation of all the scandinavian countries, but CURIOUSLY also the one with the worst economic growth, making us on par with today's Greece by 2025, if the trend continues. (Say goodbye to that welfare state then!)
Fuck off commie. You're a scourge. A literal cancer cell desperately trying to multiply, to destroy its host.
>>69929760
>if i play dumb, he will forget what i said!
>>69930380
Was I talking about a singular person? That applies to every individual in a communist society.
Either you're shitposting or unintentionally stupid. Read the thread, faggot. That thing in your cranium is just begging to be used somewhere.
>>69932144
>>69932144
Nepal I don't think I'll be needing this $60, you can have it
>>69932462
>USD
Not even canacucks like their own valute.
>>69930254
>>69931102
You again?
>>69930884
Somewhat inaccurate but mildly amusing. Leafs always trying to be Straya. Just give up m8.
And since you and 50chins over there are so curious, here you go.
I'm studying criminal psychology, looking at a 60K job. Paid for it by working, my father is dirt poor. I'm also a writer. And I speak through the character I'm writing about whenever I come on pol. It's a way to get really inside the character's head and bring some depth there.
BTW, how's this?
"Bonaparte, a man of heart, courage and steel.
If the Ruskies don't fell him, the cold sure will"
>>69931436
Then kindly fuck off. I have no ambition to entertain someone who cannot maintain an objective perspective in a discussion.
>>69902529
The main problem of the Left at this point, and I mean the actual left and not liberals and liberals larping as communists, is that they don't consider genetics as part of material conditions, or at least, don't take it seriously enough.
>>69932144
See
>>69922925
>Your basic needs are met, now go out there and advance humanity.
hmmm...
But by all means, please keep going, i had a shitty day and i need the laugh.
>>69902529
OP you figured it all out
we're going to take you to a meeting with all the world leaders so you can convince them all to work on your perfect communist utopia
get in this helicopter
>>69932462
Aww! You did that for me? How sweet!
>>69902529
kill yourself leftypol, you're worse than the stormnigger shitposters
>>69933128
Nah, Leaf was right.
If you had any interest in objective discussion you would have met me here: >>69928202
But your only reflex is insulting the mind or body of others.
No sense of honesty or accountability. Leaf was spot on. You're a parasite.
>>69933153
I'm assuming you're just plain horrible at English since you think I'm referring to just one person on that post.
And do you think that communism would only apply to one person? Just one person in the entire nation? How dense are you? Do you also walk through doors without opening them first?
>marxist utopia
>>69902529
I do. That's why I'm not a Socialist. Your retarded ideology has never accomplished anything significant towards the end of improving the world. Capitalism has been the gyre of the massive economic growth and improvements to the quality of life across the glove that one can witness in real-time because of the great innovations to telecommunications and video also brought forth by Capitalism.
There is an anecdote that is apocryphal, but which I like, because it is self-defeating. The anecdote goes that during the space race, the Americans were concerned that their pens would not function in space, so they spent millions of dollars developing a form of pen that would function in space without need for gravity, thus they developed the ball-point pen.
The Soviets used a pencil.
The moral of the story is supposed to be that Socialism breeds an efficient and utilitarian mindset, but the actual moral of the story is that Capitalists desire innovation by nature. This is why the Soviets reached space, and we reached the Moon.
Capitalism is not a perfect system, but it is clearly, objectively superior to its competitors, and if such a time comes as technology outmodes our present economic system, it will only be because Capitalism has succeeded so utterly as to obsolete itself. The true Capitalist would fire himself if he felt his position redundant in a company--so too it may be someday with economic systems.
But until that day comes, no force on heaven or earth could possibly motivate me to sign my name on with envious, covetous, weak-willed religious zealots who desire that they should take my property and my opportunity and centralize it under the sort of bureaucracy that I have spent my entire life fighting to escape.
>inb4 classless stateless
Literally an oxymoron. Social classes arise naturally in any society. There is in fact no way to eliminate class, except through the creation of a political class, which is invariably the worst sort of class.
>>69933443
Jesus, stop being so butthurt, faggot. I swear to God, you burgers can dish it but can't take it.
>>69933766
Dude, just read the thread, would you?
>>69933128
>objective perspective in a discussion.
Objectivity? So you mean "lets discuss communism based on an ideal world condition where my pretty ideology actually works"?
I don't need to accept that premise. If you want objectivity, then here:
EVERY communist or socialist state has failed, like USSR, or displays enormous social and economic problems, like North Korea, or Venezuela.
and
Every socialist element in capitalist states feeds on the wealth of the private enterprise, business, and trade. Not the other way around.
>>69933602
>That damage control
Nigger, im so sorry for you, and your family.
>>69933128
>studying psychology
You are unemployed and lying about working towards that degree. If you had any interest in finding a good paying job you would have never considered english, psychology, law, sociology, anthropology, history, or communications, etc. Because there is practically no demand for these credentials in North America.
Also, nice autism. You are not a writer. You are just a stupid kid who thinks he is a socialist. Nice try though.
>>69934100
Most of the former Soviet Union countries are still failed states under capitalism.
>>69934101
I find it very interesting how you keep getting stumped and somehow still keep posting. Do you have absolutely no shame? No life? Here you go.
>>>\b\
Your home. Fap to some trap threads and cry yourself to sleep.
>>69934368
Your point being? Nations are not rebuilt from its ashes within 2 generations.
>team
yikes
>>69934305
Read this. Analyse words, use that floppy, usless mass in your head.
>>69927681
>>69903330
Yes, because capitalism never polluted anything, ever.
As long as humanity needs heavy metals, some cities will be hellholes like this where everything living dies.
>>69934100
I did tell you to fucking read the thread.
>>69927681
>>69934305
And Jesus, Trudeau. You can't shitpost. Just admit that. Ad hominem attacks without any banter is not wit.
>>69904093
>implying Marx advocated for tons of free shit/social democracy
You embarrass yourself, Abdul.
>>69934962
>two triangles
>>69928320
Define 'inocents'
>>69928321
>Let me tell you about your country
>>69934077
I spent all of college reading Leftist drivel. I did not come here to be "educated" by a Gurkha, I came here to tell you that I would sooner die in flames than let you ruin my country.
Lenin still lives.
The Bolshevik party still lives.
The flames of revoliution still burns!!
Young October is comming!!
>>69934660
So what you are saying is that because you backpedaled your way out of supporting socialism in that post, the entire thread is invalid.
Good one.
>>69935037
Hey, Britbro. How's the tea?
>>69930116
>Dictatorship is a key element of communism
No education is.
>>69934974
That pic is awesome
Somehow whoever altered the original to make that abomination reached an unattainable level of retardation that cannot be mimicked. A genuine communist moron made that image. It's incredible that they didn't understand the issues with it.
>>69934962
You are a hypocrite tbqh senpai
>>69935399
Great, thanks
>>69902529
One man's utopia is another man's hell.
>>69935489
>opinions
It's not a particularly good representation, but far more truthful than the original.
>>69934812
>MUH MIDDLE GROUND
Yeah ok. You can think that all you want. It's not like government social programs have a reputation of being horribly ineffective and counter-productive, as opposed to private initiatives.
Standard rhetoric of tame socialists. Raise the tax, fund the program, tell the people they need this, drive competing options out business due to tax funding being the ultimate unfair competition, realize program works marginally, blame capitalism, raise tax, and finally keep telling off proposals to remove the program as "attacks on the welfare state".
I've seen this a hundred times. You're not fooling me.
Has it ever worked?
Name one time it worked.
>>69935596
You goddamn idiot, fascism was fucking failure thats why nazi germany had to invade weaker, but richer neighbouring countries, because it was to poor to sustain itself, after invading couple weaker countries it god defetead by the communists.
Bravo hitler, bravo
>>69935653
One man's utopia is everyone else's hell.
>>69935345
Lithuanian commie best commie
>>69935384
The intelligent people left. I'm dealing with bottom of the barrel /b/tards now.
Prep the bull, enjoy a night of multicultural ass rape, don't burn too many calories you might start looking even slightly desirable, bend over for Allah and pray that Trudeau doesn't get high and sell some more gold.
I'm out faggot and I'm gonna start shitposting Canacucks to the ground from now on. Ta!
>>69935665
Lol, it is objectively incorrect in every way. Socialism is collectivism without individualism. Gun rights are almost non-existent the more centralized governments become.
Also you fags posing this as an argument between communism/marxism/socialism, VERY RIGIDLY DEFINED IDEOLOGIES, and fascism, a dirty word for millions of different systems of thought aren't doing yourselves any favors. You're just trying very poorly to be edgy.
>>69935871
Yeah, it's amazing how that works. Almost as though capitalists would do anything to smother socialism in its cradle.
How many nations had their armies in Russia in 1920?
>>69935881
Retard detected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o84NU9Ees
>>69935535
Look at your first post, cuck
>Get high
>Sell gold
>>69935871
What little chances it had, it had always been awesome.
>>69936162
>VERY RIGIDLY DEFINED IDEOLOGIES
Given the fact you said
>Socialism is collectivism without individualism
This, I'm gonna say you don't know those definitions very well.
>>69935964
It's okay, you are a lying lazy faggot who claims to be spending money on a psychology degree.
Enjoy that 60k job that will never happen in your lifetime, faggot.
Thanks for making me feel good about my life choices.
>>69936293
It invariably results in millions of people dying of starvation due to mismanagement by a small elite
>>69936330
Given the fact that you didn't actually refute anything there, I'm gonna say you're conceding because you honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
>>69936293
The funny thing is that Russia today is a year or two ahead of the United States with their missile defense systems - s400, etc. Also, there are more Russian engineers per 1000 pop than every European country. It's almost like the people make the nation great and not your special snowflake Government.
>>69936201
Hitler was a dumbass and you are insane for believing his lies. What next? You gonna claim that Hillary clinton didin't lie?
>>69936409
>It invariably results in millions of people dying of starvation due to mismanagement by a small elite
>>69936409
Socialism is worker control of the means of production. Marx advocated for the proles to own guns and frustrate any gun control measures.
Literally nothing you said so far is right. You don't even know the basic definition of socialism. Like any ideology, it has some libertarian sects and some not so libertarian ones.
>>69933443
Oh and a goodbye note for you, lovely burger.
The burger prepares to post something clever. He slams his fat fingers into the keyboard, squinting at the letters because 50 chins block his FOV.
He begins furiously typing, the keys rattle with each press. But he cannot make any legible sense because thoughts of McDonald's, his sister's vagina and 9/11 nevar 4get) keep popping into his head. He manages to string a few nonsensical words together, he hits post. Suddenly, his heart begins to fill with pride at the American education system. They taught him to finish a sentence.
He stands up, knocking over a gallon of deit coke, and raises his hand to his man boobs. Soft trumpets play in the background as he whispers "Murica!" with teary eyes.
Tragically his heart gives way to such undue stress of standing up. He tumbles to the ground with a loud splat, struggling to breath. The life slowly leaves his beady eyes...
And this is the story of a proud, red white and blue Murican! Dog bless USA.
>>69936385
Excellent! Glad we're finally in agreement. Now I assume you have some lubing up to do. I'll let you get to it.
>>69936442
Everthyng good Russia has is left over of communism. Russia Empire was african tier a-hole full of iliterate peasants who lived in darkness. Soviet Union was first into space.
Capitalist Russia today is per capita is poor as mexico
>>69936700
Autism levels off the charts
>>69936463
>What the people believed and what the Government stated its goals were are antithetical to what I believe they are from my regurgitated tertiary sources with no substantiating evidence i.e.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
The Latvian SS fought to the bitter end to defend their country, even when the frontline passed them on both sides. It's almost like there was no plan to murder them by the Germans.
http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf Read this and realize that the Third Reich had everything in common with the other great Empires, everything. Your special snowflake ideology lasted for 73 years, 2/7s of what the great empires did, if it was even Socialist by the end.
You are a dumbass and insane for believing an empty shell of an ideology, which ignores basic common sense and biology.
>>69936798
>People born 20 years ago who never lived in Soviet Union who graduate today with high marks is somehow because of past greatness and not their own knowledge
kek
>>69936846
>The Latvian SS fought to the bitter end to defend their country,
And 16th Lithuanian division sucesfully marched on Berlin for communism, your point?
>Your special snowflake ideology lasted for 73 years
Cold war isnt over, because communism is still alive.ALl the nazis, on the other hand...
>>69937043
You are taking my points out of context to make some sort of vague point of "well, we had that too!!!!"
Those "nazis" developed the technology in the US and Soviet Union which defined the next generation of warfare for the next two decades following Project Paperclip
>>69935881
International jewery defeated the Third Reich, but it laid the foundations and gave us the knowledge for the Fourth Reich. Are you afraid Judeling?
>>69937185
It's pretty obvious that you live in some kind of alternative reality.
>>69937043
The only reason your ideology is picking up steam is the pathetic physical state of modern Europeans. Even just looking at the physical features of people in old film it becomes obvious. If people avoided xenoestrogens and maintained natural levels and fitness, there would be no communists aside from old nostalgic fucks. http://www.science20.com/news_articles/physical_strength_and_political_conservatism_coevolved_say_social_scientists-112048
How can you create a grand state when there is no motivation to do great? Why the fuck would I bother with rocket science when I can grow weed for niggers at the same price?
>>69937299
Ow the edge
If such a thing happens, it'll be defeated again. It turns out people don't like edgy murderers running about the world.
>>69937299
>International jewery defeated the Third Reich,
>Hitlers bodyguard was jew
>>69937477
>Assumption the post.
>>69934660
>skew the discussion
Yeah. Every fucking time.
>just read the thread
>muh true communism
>muh propoganda
You're deflecting so hard you don't even know it. I made a valid contribution on the objective nature of communism and you didn't engage it. We only get ad hominem from you.
You clearly lack real-world experience and don't know the true value of a dollar yet. You think 60k is a lot of money and worth aspiring to for a yearly wage. You're another know it all college kid who hasn't become a man yet because you haven't built anything yet. Give it some time. You'll realize that your ideology is a fantasy that doesn't hold once you make real money and have actually built something over time.
The concept of squandering or losing a birthright means nothing to you yet. You won't know what it's like to build an empire. You don't have the ambition of a warrior. You're an emasculated psychology student who is lecturing real working people about what they should do with their money. You're a hack.
>>69937477
You want to be taken seriously when you give us such a shitty source?
>one questionable study
>editorial tone
>science20.com
>>69937531
>murderers are edgy
>people who decide to deal with their problems by systematically removing them are edgy
Are you a 16 year old girl
>>69938042
20 year old girl actually.
