Solar Energy is the future, /pol/
Let us rejoice ITT
We should be using every source of energy possible, not fighting about which one is the best.
Solar is guaranteed to be the future. Solar energy has achieved exponential growth, which is in line with other disruptive technologies like the TV and the internet.
You could not stop it if you tried.
>>69811176
I agree.
The energy renaissance is upon us, we should not infight, only accept the glory of solar.
its like the equivalent of a sail on a ship
It can get us only so far in the long run.
>>69812040
Quite the contrary, my friend! Solar power (or "natural fusion" as I've taken to calling it) is the most abundant source of energy in the known universe.
>>69812264
how will it get you from 1 solar system to the next then faggot?
My parents have solar panels on their roof to heat the hot water, they got them installed free by the council so I dunno it's a win-win situation as far as they are concerned
>>69812372
Once you speed up in space, you dont slow down. Why are you concerned about space travel, anyways? We're not there yet.
But what will happen when the sun explodes?
successful international business are embracing solar. Why arent you?
>>69811047
muh 20% percent efficient solar panels that can only collect on average 8 hours of usable sunlight a day.
buying into the solar jew, top kek
emergency telephones are powered by solar
>>69812788
>£5.5m to clad the CIS tower in 575.5kW worth of solar panels
>£7.7m in 2016 money
>20kW average generation
F U T U R E
U
T
U
R
E
>>69812788
If the water's already hot, why do they need to heat it?
>>69813267
muricans don't have mobile phones?
Even God is investing in solar power. Here is the Vatican.
>>69811047
Solar energy is a stopgap measure. It is not a universal solution. Wind is a better substitute in many places, however, due to the winter months.
Where available, another good solution is the energy that's produced by waves.
But really, truly, the BEST solution is nuclear, at least until fusion reactors become available. Hell, 4th gen reactors actually run off the waste that the first 3 gens produce.
thermosolar here, photosolar is a joke.
>>69811047
probably a future source of unintended consequences.
Solar can power sportsball. The Japanese love solar, by the way. Its exploding over there.
>>69813536
Most call boxes were built before cell phones. Also, poor people cant afford them you oppressive shitlord.
>>69813435
Entropy faggot.
You don't slow down in space unless friction or gravitational pull.
>>69812372
Look up solar sail
Nuclear is the future, not this shit
>>69813216
>20% percent efficient
20% is actually really good.
>>69811047
The materials used to make solar panels include rare metals, there is only so much we can make
>>69813818
I imagine they redirect a shitload of heat back into the air versus letting the heat dissipate in the soil.
>>69811047
20k investment to run a few appliances that cost a buck or 2 a day of traditional electricity?yeah fuck that.
>>69813926
You can get a basic cell phone for $5 a month with the phone only costing $10.
Plus, free Obomofones. But yeah they were built long before cell phones were a huge thing, plus phones can break, hence emergency phone.
>>69811602
Oh bullshit.solar businesses are closing left and right in the southwest.
so simple even hut people can do it!
>>69811047
Sure it is
>>69814629
Nigger stole that off an emergency phone pole.
>>69813926
>Also, poor people cant afford them you oppressive shitlord.
Yes they can. Pick up an iPhone 4S for 60 bucks on ebay, and take it to budget mobile, where you can get 350 minutes, unlimited text, and 50mb of data for 15 bucks.
Or you can afford double that monthly price, go to page plus cellular, and get 1300 minutes, unlimited text, and 1.5GB of data.
The key is to stay away from the big carriers, and do research into MNVOs.
even TI knew, back in '93
>>69813536
Murica is a big place.there are huge gaps in cell coverage.
How the fuck could anyone be against renewable energy?
Are you all Arab oil sheiks or oil company CEO's?
What the fuck is the matter with you?
Solar, wind, hydropower and nuclear (thorium) are the future.
It's like this board is full of edgy try-hards who are only lead by contrarianism.
>>69814874
Kek poorfags and their data limits.
>Solar PV Demand Rises Sixfold in the Middle East
even the Arabs agree - Why dig for oil when you can bathe in the sunlight?
http://www.greenprophet.com/2013/04/sixfold-solar-pv-demand-mea/
>>69815016
shills mate, last time ive seen multiple threads about how global warming is a hoax
>>69815016
Man no.its that alternative sources arent affordable/efficient enough for even a small american household.
>>69815122
If it makes you feel any better, you can also get better plans if you can afford to pay a little more.
Even their most expensive plan is a steal, in comparison.
>>69815242
That's true for solar and wind, but technology is improving.
Nuclear and hydropower are absolutely efficient and far cheaper in the long run.
>>69815717
RARE FLAG!
>>69815242
Why do you say that?
>>69815717
Hydro kicks ass but only the Chinks and Africans are building large projects now since the Western world thinks it's environmentally unsound.
>>69815852
Just in case you were wondering, one hail storm would cause over 200k worth of damage just in your picture.
That's not a problem in tropical zones, but in other zones, that's a real risk.
>>69814524
Solar City is doing better than ever. Alway bet on Musk.
>>69815974
I'm sure you can make them durable enough to survive a few hailstones.
>>69816146
I'm sure you can. They aren't there yet.
>>69816299
Houses have them in my city, and we get hailstorms sometimes. I don't see how this is meant to pose a big technical challenge.
>>69814874
I $130 a month for a plan with 6gb data. Eat a dick Telus.
>While hail certainly could damage some types of solar panels, the likelihood is very small and occurrences are extremely rare. Many solar-electric modules and solar hot water collectors are made with tempered glass. Under standard test conditions they will withstand hail up to one inch in diameter, traveling at 50 miles per hour.
Why isnt australia making more use of solar power? They have plenty of space and plenty of sun. Its like they just dont care.
>>69811047
>meme energy
>>69816928
flawless energy
>Solar: Not just for white people anymore
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/solar-power-not-just-white-people-any-more
>>69814204
20% good, top kek if you are comparing that to previous solar panels sure.
natural gas>solar
look up GE 9HA and you'll know why.
>>69811602
>90 TWh produced in a whole year
>80% produced during summer months
>most power is used during winter months
>cant store electricity
Solar way of the future bro
Solar energy is one of the best solutions possible
It's also not important where it is at right now
30% of new energy in the USA was solar
The price continues to decline
>>69811047
i would rather destroy the planet than live in a neighborhood with those ugly ass blue grid panels one everyone's roofs
>>69819000
>I like wasting perfectly empty roof space
>I like wasting money
>I like wasting trips
You're just a piece of shit all around aren't you?
>>69818440
1,927 KWh per ton of coal
$27/ ton for coal in current market
Use coal until we get nuclear established. Fuck that ugly solar and wind shit
>>69813818
i'm sure the construction and storage of all those worn out batteries required for solar won't have any effects at all
>>69811176
First post best post.
Just make roof tiles out of panels and cut housing taxes for people that build with those instead of regular taxes.
>>69811047
Nah it's shit. It costs more energy and oil to produce solar panels than they produce in their lifetime. It's not even close.
>>69819486
long debunked ameriburger.
If that was true, then how do solar city offer 100% solar power at below market price of other power producers?
>>69815974
>Just in case you were wondering, one hail storm would cause over 200k worth of damage just in your picture.
100 bucks of chicken wire.
>>69819486
urban legend
It only takes about 3-4 years of service to get all costs back with current solar efficiency.
Here is a study
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35489.pdf
It really is.
Coal was a perfectly good energy source until obama's handlers told him to outlaw it. obama's 200 billion dollarssolar plant (built with tax dollars) in arizona is about to be shut down because its not effecient at all and kills literally thousands of birds a day.
>>69819000
The easier and better soloution for everyone involved would be, if you kill yourself
>>69811047
I'll believe it when I see solar powered jets and trains.
>>69818196
> can't store energy
>being this stupid
>>69819830
Solar panels need to be replaced every 5-7 years. Factor in the cost of installation, international transport, production, and massive environmental damage and energy cost of collecting the heavy metals required and it's even more of a joke than electric vehicles. It requires 400 times their weight in oil to produce. Paying the same price for burning clean coal would provide orders of magnitude more power
Solar panels are only being installed because of goofy government grants and ebin green energy memes.
>>69820078
>>69819998
sources?
because everything you just posted was retarded
>>69819619
Because of hilarious government tax breaks and output bennies. They pay hundreds of times the market price of power per kw you put back in the system.
>>69811047
funny cause people in LA dont realize the windmills in Palm Springs are responsible for the drought
>>69820372
If that was true, then how do solar city offer 100% solar power at below market price of other power producers?
>>69820372
>5-7 years
Normal warranty is 20 years with 80% power generation.
Why are you so full of shit? Post a single source backing up your claims.
Are there processes to create the polysilicon that require energy inputs? Yes.
Do these processes cost more energy than the solar panel will produce? NOPE
fuck off retard 90 iq monkey
>>69820466
Google clean coal. The only byproducts are chemical compounds used for oil refinement and metal machining, water vapor, and less carbon dioxide than a cow per power plant.
>>69819830
With or without subsidies
>>69820479
>They pay hundreds of times the market price of power per kw you put back in the system.
So the government pays over 99.5% of solar city's power production costs? You got a source for that?
>>69820697
Dude, it doesn't even fucking matter. They should be subsidizing it far more than they are now.
>coal doesn't get subsidies
In June 2010, the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) said $557 billion was spent to subsidize fossil fuels globally in 2008, compared to $43 billion in support of renewable energy. In a July 2011 EIA report on federal fossil fuel subsidies, coal was estimated to have tax expenditures (provisions in the federal tax code that reduce the tax liability of firms) with an estimated value of $561 million in FY 2010, down from $3.3 billion in FY 2007.[2]
How well do solar cells handle hail? How often do they need to be replaced? Roof care is serious business.
Solar is nice for small time household use, but industrial civilization can't run on it, there's also the problem of rare earth metal availability
>>69820344
Offer a practical way of storing energy from solar.
Solar would be god tier if it wasn't so hypocritical and expensive.
better use the coal and gas powered mining industry to first get the materials for solar panels. Then use gas and coal powered factories to manufacture the panels. Then have to spend more money on buying and repairing/replacing them than just using conventional grid electricity.
im for solar panels but they are just too expensive, inefficient, and short lasting in their current state
![enhanced-buzz-wide-4735-1392976416-15[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5Q3b6RK.jpg "enhanced-buzz-wide-4735-1392976416-15[1].jpg")
>>69820466
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/188328-californias-new-solar-power-plant-is-actually-a-death-ray-thats-incinerating-birds-mid-flight
>What spans 1,600 hectares, cost $2.2 billion to build, and potentially fries hundreds of thousands of birds per year? The new BrightSource solar power plant in California’s Mojave Dessert.
>In November 2014, Associated Press reported that the plant was producing only "about half of its expected annual output". The California Energy Commission issued a statement blaming this on "clouds, jet contrails and weather".[12] Performance improved considerably in 2015 — to about 650 GW·h, but ownership partner NRG Energy said in its November quarterly report that Ivanpah would likely not meet its contractual obligations to provide power to PG&E during the year, raising the risk of default on its Power Purchase Agreement.[13] PG&E contracted to receive 640 GW·h/year from Units 1 and 3, while SCE is supposed to receive 336 GW·h from Unit 2,[14] for which they pay about $200/MW·h (20¢/kW·h).[13] In March 2016, PG&E agreed not to declare the plant in default for at least four months, in return for "an undisclosed sum" from the owners.[15]
wikipedia : ivanpah solar power facility.
and look at this fucking ugly monstrosity when has ruined a beautiful desert valley.
build more clean coal plants.
>>69821053
this is why wind and nuclear are our best options for clean energy
>>69820698
>>69820633
These are basic facts. You're the ones making the extraordinary claims. Look at your local region's solar tax credit and energy buyback costs. Examine the cost of reworking the power infrastructure to deal with the distributed flow of power. Visit China to see how much pollution the plants producing those panels pump out. Your bennies will be gone in 5 years and your $/kw will go the roof.
It's shit compared to coal. It's shit compared to nuclear. It's even shit compared to algae for god sakes.
PV looks like a horrible investment.
Who wants to subsidize a technology like this?
>gaining energy from the huge fusion plant at the center of solar system which originally created most fossil fuels
LEL better invest more in coal
Truth is, solar investments are lower than they should be.
I am not a retard who wants to shut off all coal now, but of things to spend money on, solar is a good one.
>>69821130
how safe is it to have a nuclear reactor on your roof?
>>69820923
>throw more money at it! thats the answer!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra
>>69815922
Hydro is alright so small communities but it really hurts the environment.
>>69821120
They're also shutting it down because it doesn't produce enough power. Comic gold.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/ivanpah-solar-plant-may-be-forced-to-shut-down-1458170858
>>69821053
This doesn't work. You need scale to bring down costs.
Every doubling of solar production lowers the cost by 20%.
As long as it continues to get cheaper and the technology improves, it's worth investing into.
>>69821120
>cost $2.2 billion to build,
>obama's 200 billion dollarssolar plant
>>69820344
Storing electricity is notoriously difficult and dangerous, theres a reason why coal power stations, nuclear power, hydroelectric dams and gas turbines are popular, it's because they are on demand.
>>69821248
>hydro hurts the environment
>>69812788
>cis
>>69821364
Because he shut down the coal and natural gas industry which is a 200 billion dollar a year industry.
>>69821407
>Storing electricity is notoriously difficult and dangerous
You can just use lithium batteries. Tesla sell plug and play batteries for power grids. Not too hard any more.
>>69821215
I can't believe taxpayer money was spent on your public education
>>69821273
Ivanpah, which is the world's largest concentrated solar power plant, generated 67,260 MWh of electricity in February, more than twice its February 2015 output of 30,273 MWh. NRG claims it can generate as much as 102% of its March target output.
http://www.utilitydive.com/news/nrg-energy-says-ivanpah-output-on-track-to-meet-its-contracts/416666/
>>69821411
It do though. Theres a reason most countries stopped making them. Turns out permanently flooding shit loads of farmland isn't popular.
>>69821534
Obama shut down coal in America?
just stop
>>69821588
do unicorns shit the batteries out? no, instead the rare earth metals used in the batteries have to be mined (using a MASSIVE amount of fossil fuel) and the batteries have to be produces- using a massive amount of energy once again.
the whole thing is a scam and liberals eat it right up.
>>69821675
Its funny how anit-solar folks are always a few years behind the times.
>>69815016
Uneducated Amerifats like always .
I'm going to explain their twisted thoughts:
because of renewable enrgies all the thousands jobs and businesses with coal, oil, gas are going to vanish in the future.
So they fear that the economy will collapse.
Now every human beeing above the intelligence of a subsaharan nigger would realize:
>Hey wait a minute, if renewable energies are going to get bigger they are going to generate thousands of jobs . So the jobs lost in the oil, coal and gas industry polluting the enviroment are going to vanish but the same ammount of jobs or even more will appear in the renewable energy sector?
Thats right.
So the reason stupid people are against renewable energy is because they are stupid
>>69821248
Enviro Engineer here.
This is the biggest bullshit coming from the energy sector ever. Well, second to nukes are bad.
Coal, gas, even solar and wind pay environmentalists to say this to scare away anyone from building dams. They are hardly bad for the environment. Dams create new lakes, allow us to control rivers during flood seasons and bring water into dry areas. Stop believing the dams are bad lies.
>>69819270
>Nuclear established
>A energy source that produced waste that will glow in the dark for few million years until its not dangerous anymore
>>69821588
>>69821793
Dumb monkeys
Current batteries are simply not good enough. That being said, battery technology is an incredibly important research area. Just because of electronics, electric cars, and for future energy storage uses.
Meaning, shit has a ton of money pouring in and we will likely have a good energy storage medium in the future to use with solar power.
Even then, current solar power is still very useful anyways even if it is not a total solution.
Solar energy hitting 10% of energy needs is still a tremendous improvement.
>>69821793
>using a MASSIVE amount of fossil fuel
So does coal lol. Sure it's a lot, but not per kg of lithium and not per kwhour the pump out in their life span.
>>69821588
>lithium batteries
>environmental
way to self-detonate your argument.
There's no point in pursuing solar if it's not more environmentally friendly (which it evidently is not). Clean coal, nuclear, and hydro cost a fraction per watt of what solar costs.
>>69821696
Once the water's settled it's near 0 impact.. Maybe on your tiny ass island you're short on space but many energy sucking nations don't have any shortage of space
>>69821675
except it's shutting down because it's not producing enough power.
>>69821675
>Fossil fuel consumption[edit]
The plant requires burning natural gas each morning to get the plant started. The Wall Street Journal reported: "Instead of ramping up the plant each day before sunrise by burning one hour’s worth of natural gas to generate steam, Ivanpah needs more than four times that much."[32] On August 27, 2014, the State of California approved Ivanpah to increase its annual natural gas consumption from 328 million cubic feet of natural gas, as previously approved, to 525 million cubic feet.[33] In 2014, the plant burned 867,740 million BTU of natural gas emitting 46,084 metric tons of carbon dioxide, which is nearly twice the pollution threshold at which power plants and factories in California are required to participate in the state’s cap and trade program to reduce carbon emissions.[34] If that gas had been used in a conventional fossil fuel plant, it would have generated nearly 124,000 MW·h of electrical energy. That is enough to power the annual needs of 20,660 Southern California homes.[35]
HAHA. its a fucking scam folks. the icing on the cake is that the enviro-wackos have to live with the fact that there little plant is genociding entire species of birds in the mojave.
Both wind turbines and solar PV use rare earth minerals, mostly from China, in their manufacture. Mining and processing these rare earths generates a tremendous amount of “hazardous and radioactive byproducts.” In the part of China where rare earth minerals are mined, soil and water are saturated with toxic substances, making farming impossible.
If we were to try to increase wind and solar by a factor of 10 (so that they together amount to 12% of world energy supply, instead of 1.2%) we would need huge amounts of rare earth minerals and other polluting minerals, such as gallium arsenide, copper-indium-gallium-diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, used in making thin-film photovoltaics. We could not expect China to take on all of this pollution itself. Instead, the rest of the world would need to produce these toxic materials as well. Presumably, many countries would require stringent pollution controls to do this extraction. These pollution controls would likely require greater use of fossil fuel energy. While pollution problems might be kept in check, the greater use of fossil fuels would likely raise both CO2 emissions and the prices of the wind and solar PV.
There are many other pollution issues. China is a major center for renewables production, using coal as it primary fuel. Silicon-based solar cells require heating silica rock to high temperatures in 3000 F ovens, something that which can be done cheaply with coal. Wind is known for its noise pollution issues and for killing birds. Solar panels on the desert floor interfere with the local ecosystem.
A major reason why wind and solar PV are considered clean is because it is hard to measure their true pollution costs, whether CO2 or other types. Electric cars have some of the same issues, because they also use rare earth minerals and have heavy up-front costs.
>>69822128
http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/india--solar-to-beat-coal-on-cost-by-10-in-five-years--says-kpmg_100022010/#axzz44nlTY11H
>>69822128
Source for it shutting down?
>>69811047
On a side note, some time ago I heard about a project to install solar panels into roads. Has it died already?
>>69821809
>damages avian wildlife and the environment massively
>takes a massive amount of space
>ridiculous costs
>literally billions in government investment and tax breaks
>still can't even turn a profit
Solar fags on suicide watch.
>>69822339
It was linked already
http://www.wsj.com/articles/ivanpah-solar-plant-may-be-forced-to-shut-down-1458170858
>>69822125
But I have no problem with fossil fuel being used. I'm saying this "green energy" shit that we are supposed to be dumping money into isn't "green". its a scam. we've already got perfectly good power generating solutions in nuclear, coal, hydro electric and natural gas. we don't need to be wasting money on this green energy shit. and don't even get me started on those ugly fucking windfarms that have ruined so much beautiful countryside.
I'd be more keen towards renewable energy if its advocates weren't actively suppressing development of thorium reactors. It's the #1 thing keeping the fossil fuel industry as dominant as it is.
>>69822274
It's CSP and only a few plants like it exist on earth. It's not even PV. I don't understand your argument that a relatively new technology and massive plant might have some problems.
>>69816083
Those solar leases are a total rip-off. I pity anyone buying energy from Solar City. You gotta purchase your system, not lease it. Financing is super easy to come by.
>>69822128
>environmental
They are though
>Clean coal, nuclear, and hydro cost a fraction per watt of what solar costs.
Why is solar city beating them though on prices?
>>69822128
>Once the water's settled it's near 0 impact
After the damage is done, there is no damage. yes of course. But the damage done is not popular.
>>69822479
You mean sides of the roads? Wasn't that called Solar Roadways or sth?
>>69822523
Hydro and nuclear are great solutions too. But solar also works.
Coal creates too much Co2.
>>69822599
>You gotta purchase your system, not lease it.
Since when? Last i heard you lease it, but you gotta promise you'll pay for it for a few years at least, and then you get below market price electricity prices. Why do you pity people paying for this?
>>69819998
What will you do when the coal runs out?
>>69822614
>lithium-ion batteries
>environmental
OK, now you're just trolling
>damage done by flooding
That's all considered before the project even commences. It's considered part of the construction. Hydro itself does negligible damage to the environment in operation. It's 'damage' is usually reclaiming land that would otherwise be polluting and is a net reduction in pollution.
Tech thread
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601178/the-tesla-model-3-may-depend-on-this-battery-breakthrough/
http://qz.com/651391/teslas-model-3-debut-how-to-watch-it-what-we-know-about-it-and-why-scientists-are-excited-by-it/
>>69822918
Not gonna happen in any of our lifetimes.
>>69823016
>OK, now you're just trolling
What's not environmental about them? You dig them up, then you can recycle them. Some mines aren't clean, but they can be.
>That's all considered before the project even commences.
Yeah, and then people decide it's not worth it. That's why we don't have them anymore.
>>69811047
id like to get on board but shits still expensive
>>69823250
So just leave it to future generations to figure out? That's a bit nihilistic.
>>69822903
No, I mean that I advise that a homeowner purchase their solar system, not lease it. It's what I did. At least here in California, your interest rates are fixed when you purchase, but you payments are variable when you lease, and after your lease is up you have to repurchase your solar system if you want to keep it. In a lease model, the lessor gets the 30% system value tax rebate, which is a considerable sum of money when your talking $15K-70K solar systems. In a purchase model, the homeowner gets the tax rebate.
If a homeowner purchases a solar system rather than leases it, the primary benefit is the same as the benefit of buying property rather than renting - you're building long-term equity (The solar systems typically have 25-year warranties out here) instead of paying someone else month-to-month.
As soon as I can get one of those Tesla eggs installed in my house, I'm hitting that up, too.
>>69813536
and what if your battery dies? and no not every single person owns a cell phone.
>>69823663
so we should just leave it in the ground so it can be wasted? we'll have cold fusion figured out by the time fucking coal runs out. even if we don't find anymore coal we have enough to burn until at least 2088.
We have even more natural gas and oil.
>>69814842
That's Norwegian m8
if it was cheap i would install them
i'm not going to pay 2000$ for some 2kw
>>69824100
>so we should just leave it in the ground so it can be wasted?
Not being wasted. At the moment it seems like there's a high change it is costing us power to burn it than it use providing us in wealth. So it's smarter to leave it there. Like it's starter not to eat shit tonnes of cheap unhealthy greasy food, and healthier food instead. The greasy food may be cheap, but will cost you more than the difference between it and a healthier diet in the long run.
Not sure if I can expect a burger to understand that.
>>69823427
>375 pounds of CO2 per kwh
>highly explosive and corrosive materials
That's 60 million pounds of CO2 to store enough power for the US. Megatons of corrosive acid. That doesn't begin to factor in the price of utilizing such a scarce resource for such a massive purpose.
>>69824573
Not to mention that with all of that power cycling, they'll need to be replaced every few years too
>>69824573
>375 pounds of CO2 per kwh
How do you work that one out?
>>69824667
They can be recycled.
>>69814524
I'm not a solar proponent, but that's not a great argument. Think of all the car manufacturers who have failed since the automobile got popular. The same thing is happening with solar energy. The companies who are successful are getting rich as they can find easier means to make a better product than the competition. As they get richer they expand marketing as well as product diversity, eventually having a good hold on the market until something happens to remove them.
>>69824676
Nissan's quoted numbers for their 'A Fucking Leaf' electric car batteries
>>69824704
At great cost, they can.
>>69824917
Nissan probably use the cheapest lithium sources. I'd be more interested in Tesla's figures.
>>69824917
>At great cost, they can.
economies of scale are neat
>>69824704
https://youtu.be/ZHTWRYXy2gE?t=368
>>69819000
Cancer
>>69820344
retard
>>69812372
Batteries, faggot fuck.
>>69825227
>China is dump
I already knew that
>>69823712
The tesla home battery?
I would wait on getting one of those. I think we are pretty close to a big breakthrough in batteries.
>>69825498
I'll agree with you there.
>>69814767
do you know what the word future means?
>>69825498
>I think we are pretty close to a big breakthrough in batteries.
They've been saying that for decades. Every few months there's some """breakthrough""". Some super fast charging high capacity battery the the press goes nuts about. Don't mention that it melts after two charges are is impossible to mass produce with current technology or some shit.
>>69818196
>can't store electricity
>this dindu has never heard of batteries before
Battery technology is getting better every year, that's why electric cars are suddenly becoming economical. It's only a matter of time before there are cost effective ways to chemically store power generated in the summer to be used during the winter.
>>69819307
Batteries aren't required for solar. In fact most grid tie systems don't even have batteries. They send all then energy directly out to the grid, your home gets its electricity from the grid as normal, and you only pay for the difference, unless you generate more than you use in which case you get a credit or a cheque.
>>69822523
>coal
>good energy production
Pick one, monkey, you can't have both.
You're on the right track with nuclear at least, but that still has a fuck ton of problems with all those radioactive byproducts that aren't useful for power generation or weapons.
>>69811047
not in my retarded country, you pay more taxes if you generate electricity. Its as stupid as it sounds
>>69825856
It happened though
>>69813267
It's this kind of things solar should be used for, weird little low power niches. Practical large scale energy is realistically never going to happen for solar.
>>69826385
when?
>>69813926
Most poor people have better cell phones than I do because my taxes paid for them.
>>69826471
Its already happening m8.
>>69820549
subsides?
>>69826471
The sun is a gigantic fusion power plant.
Harvesting energy from it is not a realistic goal?
>>69826658
Where?
>>69826682
subsidies that cover over 90% of the cost of producing the power?
>>69825197
Even if it was 50% less, which is beyond optimistic, it would still be horrible. It's idiotic to store megawatts of electricity in fucking batteries. It's an entirely unnecessary cost.
Green energy in general is just kikes trying to trick you into paying more for the same amount of power. If it were actually 'green' you'd be paying less for the same amount of power. CO2 emissions actually assist the environment and data shows that the modern climate is CO2 deficient, and that plants are starved for CO2. It's a scam.
>>69826487
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#History
A huge amount of breakthroughs occured on just the lithium ion battery
Keep in mind, it wasn't even fucking commercially available until 1991 and is now in every phone and electric car.
>>69826728
>>69826728
Most calculators that use solar power still have a battery backup. Think about the implications of that.
Hyper dilute energy that is also unpredictability intermittent cannot be used as a large scale energy source.
>>69811047
yeah you should ask the frenchies ... they are currently building solar roads
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/news/a19362/france-planning-over-600-miles-solar-panel-roads/
>>69827119
>>69827222
Except you are using the assumption the goal is something like 100% of power.
The immediate goal is 10% of electricity generation.
>>69827006
>which is beyond optimistic
Is it?
>It's idiotic to store megawatts of electricity in fucking batteries.
Tesla sell facilities for doing exactly this, and they are selling very well apparently.
>CO2 emissions actually assist the environment
True. But no one gives a toss about the environment. People care that the climate changes it seems likely to cause would directly cost humans much more in terms of losses in wealth than burning the coal will provide.
The environment doesn't give a shit if sea levels rise or hurricanes become more common, but humans do. If people cared about the environment we couldn't plow forests the build cities and roads. In the end we only care about the environment when it directly costs us to damage it.
>>69827119
Where? All I see are incremental improvements. There are no mentions of "breakthrough" on the page. Do know what a breakthrough is?
>>69827245
the thread of that gif must have been epin
>>69827503
>data ends in 2003
>>69827245
no...
fucking...
way....
>>69827245
jesus, i remember that thread YEAAAAAARS back. Never saw delivery. fuck me
>>69820378
I said jets senpai
>>69811047
Not for us in Chiraq. It's cloudy more than half the year. Wind power is much better for our situation
>>69827503
>battery energy density
This graph is so fucking stupid.
Might as well use monitor screen size in inches. It would also have a straight line.
Density is restricted by fucking valence electrons you fucking shithead.
It's not going to be exponential, at BEST you get a 3x increase if you move to something with 3 valence electrons.
didn't one small US town go full solar, only to be cucked by the energy plant? people were being wacked with heavy service charges to make up for the plants low profits even though the plant/municipality gave subsidies to people switches to solar.
its impossible to be green with the energy jew around.
>>69827539
Yeah, you can't even ever meaningfully say that if the power source is both unpredictable AND intermittent. Power demand is incredibly 'spikey' to insure you don't get brown outs and black out you must keep a huge amount (equal to the amount of solar/wind you relying on) of oil/gas/coal plants idling to filling the gaps when the unreliables fail.
>>69827859
my bad. Elon wants to build an electric supersonic jet someday. He reckons it would be possible if lithium-ion battery energy density improved x2.
>>69827674
low iq subhuman
>goes from not existing as a technology to being the battery used in majority of devices
>>69811047
Solar power is great but creating panels pollutes like a motherfucker due to how many chemicals are used to create them.
Find a new way to make solar panels without being as bad as plastics or coal and I will be impressed.
>>69828087
over the course of decades. A breakthrough is a big improvement that happens at once.
>>69827585
Because of massive subsidies and absurdly premium pricing. For example, the US government gives a $7500 subsidy for every electric car Tesla sells.
Also, Human CO2 production has shown virtually no shift in the climate, even with massively "massaged" data. Global warming is inevitable as we're still exiting an ice age. Stopping all human CO2 emissions is the equivalent of throwing a child in front of a speeding train in an attempt to slow it down.
>>69827503
>Wireless transfer speed
The fuck happened 2001?
The hell it is. We have a gigantic solar plant here in California, in one of the most optimal locations on Earth, and it's been nothing but a disaster. They can't meet their demand despite a billion dollars and have been burning natural gas to make up the surplus. It's a huge waste of money and it's only happening because leftist retards aren't content to wait until their shitty futuristic technology actually arrives to start implementing it.
If the time comes that solar power actually works, it will explode, but it doesn't yet. It's a waste of time and taxpayer dollars.
>>69827741
>>69827119
Battery tech has been basically been on a very flat steady increase for at least a few decades, it's unreasonable to expect a big change around the corner. Not to mention the fact batteries are needed to make solar feasible show that the tech *is* unfeasible.
>>69827956
Solar is declining in cost.
Do you understand that concept?
Solar power installed now increases the scale of production which reduces cost further.
In your low IQ brain. Which is shit. You think "Oh Solar is now 10% cheaper than coal, now everyone will use Solar."
That doesn't work. You need to produce all the panels which requires lots of production and scaling.
Scaling out the technology reduces costs further. Meaning if you see on the horizon that in 10 years solar PV will be cheaper than coal, you need to start scaling production now.
Scaling earlier, with subsidies or incentives, reduces the cost at a faster rate and lets you have more electricity generated through solar when it beats out coal in cost.
Basically, Solar can cost more than Coal right now, and still be an important investment. Because doing so accelerates you towards solar uptake in general which you can reliably predict will be cheaper than coal.
Right now Solar accounts for less than 1% of energy generation.
Spending double the market price for solar power makes sense. It's a relatively small investment but pays off later when solar becomes 10%+ of energy generated. You basically speed up the rate of change towards the better technology.
All current solar subsidies are great investments, and should actually be increased and extended.
>>69828288
>For example, the US government gives a $7500 subsidy for every electric car Tesla sells.
That's not that high considering they cost $76,000.
>Human CO2 production has shown virtually no shift in the climate
Red pill me of this? What makes you think this?
Most shit I've looked at seems to show that's exactly what's happening. Even many studies funded by skeptics hoping to disprove the current models. Also no one has a model that can account for the current warming without accounting for human CO2 output.
If humans aren't causing the warming, that what is?
>>69828924
>We should waste colossal amounts of money now, during a fiscal and energy crisis, on technology that doesn't suit our needs because in ten years it MIGHT become practical
How about no.
>>69828825
http://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/sustainability-and-resource-productivity/our-insights/battery-technology-charges-ahead
Our analysis indicates that the price of a complete automotive lithium-ion battery pack could fall from $500 to $600 per kilowatt hour (kWh) today to about $200 per kWh by 2020 and to about $160 per kWh by 2025.
>>69829151
>investment with high return
>waste of money
>>69814874
Jesus what a fucking ripoff
Reminder that solar hype was created by big oil to combat nuclear power.
>>69811047
>one time cost for panels and charge controller and inverters
>very low maintenance with proper batteries
What's not to love? $5k and your average household can be free of power bills forever in many places.
>>69829151
Fuck letting the government or energy companies do it, why bother?
You can do it yourself and reap even greater benefits than if the government paid some company to put some solar panels up and hook 'em to the grid.
>>69829391
Buying the panels now isn't an investment, it's buying a useless technology to fuel an industry with potential. If you want to invest in solar companies, that's different, but they're going bankrupt left and right.
Research is important, but trying to convert to solar energy now is a retarded proposition. Again, we tried that in California, it was a highly ambitious project and it's been nothing but a money sink. Let Elon Musk play with his toys, but don't waste taxpayer dollars on it.
Solar is fucking disgusting. I don't want my beautiful American suburbs ruined with shitty panels on every roof. Home solar panels should be banned. They are ugly and ruin the style of the classical American suburb.
>>69829089
You do realize there are satellites that orbit other celestial bodies such as mars, venus, mercury, etc. and they observe overall warming on other planets as well.
Now if you ask me, I tend to think that the largest ball of energy in our region ( Sol ) tends to play a particularly important part in the question you asked regarding what is causing the warming.
Also, CO2 is beneficial to Humanity and the planet overall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-nsU_DaIZE
Scientific community has been co-opted by a bunch of liberal faggots that are pushing their own academic agenda ( they need grants and don't want to realize a large portion of their professional career has been chasing false theories ) .
TL;DR The Sun plays a very important role in climate change and what triggers these climate changes on Earth.
>humans are conceded enough to believe we have such a large indirect impact on the entirety of Earth's planetary system.
>>69829089
Literally the cost of the batteries. When you consider that taxpayers are shelling out to subsidize a luxury sports car it's pretty disgusting.
Here's your redpills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdbSxyXftc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTTaXqVEGkU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3XlooigupM
>>69829314
>"could"
>Still not a significant increase.
>Still means solar is a technology reliant on other technologies to compensate for it's huge flaws.
>>69829989
>I don't want my beautiful American suburbs ruined
Sorry, my property RIGHTS trump your "wants."
Fucking idiot.
>>69829898
Cali wastes money no matter what. It doesn't matter what program they try.
The panels are already becoming cost efficient, which is enough of a reason to encourage them. The subsidies also exist and existed for fossil fuel infrastructure.
There is this myth that solar power somehow have more control of government and subsidies than fossil fuel industry. The reality is it's the opposite and the total government spending towards fossil fuels are far, far greater than for solar.
Not to mention electric companies that try everything possible to fuck over solar users.
Get the fuck out with this retarded and uneducated stance that solar subsidies are shit.
They provide amazing return on investment compared to most government spending and don't come close to the trillions of dollars spent on fossil fuels by government.
G20 countries spent a combined average of $452 billion on fossil fuels in 2013 and 2014, through a mix of direct spending, tax breaks, investments by majority-state owned companies, and public finance from government-owned banks and financial institutions. According to the report, that’s more than four times the amount given to renewables in 2013.
>>69830356
Just like you have the right to put a giant poster of child porn on your lawn right?
>>69829898
>trying to convert to solar energy now
More people do it every year, it's easily done, and costs less than $5k now for the average home's average needs.
Sorry, deal with it.
>>69830038
>I tend to think that the largest ball of energy in our region ( Sol ) tends to play a particularly important part in the question you asked regarding what is causing the warming.
How do you figure that?
>>69830444
Possession of child porn is illegal, so of course not.
The fact that you chose a strawman instead of a real argument shows how weak you are.
>>69830515
It's been proved since the late 1800s that the solar cycle affects weather on the Earth and other planets too.
>>69830084
>Tesla 3
>not a good thing for humanity
How does electric compete with ICE when ICE have gas station and existing infrastructure everywhere?
The only way is to create competition via subsidy. The subsidies don't last forever and the companies can't become reliant on them or else they eventually die.
The electric car subsidy is a huge example of a successful government initiative. Just look at the increase in electric and hybrid car production to see why.
A whole lot of technologies get accelerated via government subsidies/tax breaks. It's not a bad thing and one of the best examples of government spending.
If you want to whine about government spending focus on something else. Solar/EV subsidies are not bad ones.
>>69811047
Physics grad here.
The bottom line is that there is no singular solution for the energy crisis. If we truly want to ween ourselves off of fossil fuels then everything, EVERYTHING needs to be on the table.
That means more solar. That means more wind. That means upgrading existing hydroelectric plants. That means utilizing more natural gas. And yes - that means more uranium fission as well.
All of these options are comparatively safer and have a lower environmental impact that burning coal or oil, and we need to increase support for all of them.
Yes... one day someone MIGHT develop a viable industrial-scale thorium reactor design.
Yes... one day someone MIGHT figure out a way to overcome the engineering obstacles for sustainable fusion.
Yes... one day someone MIGHT come up with a source of power that uses muons or dark energy or fucking pixie dust
But until then, we have to work with what we've got, and design our energy policy around what is, not what might be.
>>69830084
>When you consider that taxpayers are shelling out to subsidize a luxury sports car it's pretty disgusting.
It's a pretty free market friendly way of reducing carbon emissions. You can raise taxes on high carbon industries to balance it out. Burgerfats aren't so keen on doing that part though.
>The climate has *always* been changing
This isn't exactly compelling stuff. Anything anyone says about climate change accepts that climate change occurs naturally. The issue is the recent accelerated warming, which to date can only be accounted for by accounting for the effect of human produced greenhouse gases on the environment. No one doubts that if humans didn't exist, the climate would still be warming or cooling as it always has.
>>69813030
You know why they paint the roof white? They think there's too much arctic sea ice melt, so there is insufficient solar energy reflection. They think painting roofs will artificially establish the same effect.
>>69830658
Indeed it does. But the solar cycle hasn't been changing in a way that would account for the current warming. In fact it's been dimming slightly since the 1930's.
>>69828336
9/11
never forget
>>69830988
It would also reduce their air conditioning bill.
>>69830946
Nuclear would fix everything today, is society wasn't so traumatised by it.
>>69831395
Not really, but even if it did it would increase their heating bill, wouldn't it?
>>69831491
>Uranium
There are some problems with current fission
>>69831576
>it would increase their heating bill, wouldn't it?
yes. So you can paint your roof based on which colour will save you more cash.
>>69831656
such as?
>>69831824
Or you can let it be whatever color (there's no u in that word, cuckold) the materials are naturally, because it really doesn't fucking matter.
>>69831938
>because it really doesn't fucking matter.
probably.. but a black roof would warm the building a tiny bit.
>>69831656
By and large - not really. There've only been two major nuclear disasters in the ~60 year history of nuclear power, one caused by shoddy Soviet engineering and one caused by a ridiculous combination of massive natural disasters.
Modern gen reactors are unbelievably safe, and produce orders of magnitude less waste than first or second gen plants.
>>69831824
At current technology, you'd run out of economically available uranium pretty fast. That is just one problem as well.
It's fine right now in terms of number of plants. If it increased to supplant coal and oil you'd run into a lot more problems.
So you'd need a lot of technological improvements to go full fission.
![Insulation[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gerA6rq.jpg "Insulation[1].jpg")
>>69832072
>>69831070
>current warming
It's currently cooling actually. Has been for over a decade.
>>69830903
>How does electric compete with ICE when ICE have gas station and existing infrastructure everywhere?
I already thought of this:
How about a place where you can plug in your electric vehicle and charge it?
Or how about putting one of these in your trunk if you're traveling into a place without electricity?
>>69832456
You missed the story about last year being the warmest in history then?
Also 9 out of 10 of the warmest years in the past 100 years were in the last 10 years, or some shit like that.
>>69830968
>government subsidies
>pretty free market
>this is what yuropoors actually believe
You faggots are beyond saving
>not compelling stuff
watch them all first
>>69830903
Electric cars will only be good for humanity when they're more cost efficient than what's currently on the market. Until then they're just another tax on the poor.
>>69832456
The rate of increase in global mean temperatures has slowed the last ~10 years... but it hasn't stopped or reversed.
Any of you guys contribute to the clean energy project?
http://cleanenergy.molecularspace.org/
Every winter I contribute my computing power to hopefully improve solar tech. I really want solar to become more widespread. A lot of people are concerned with the cost and this project is aiming to make more efficient and cheaper panels so I'm on board.
/shill
Basically if you're driving your Tesla anywhere near any Interstate highway, you're already near one of their high-speed charging places.
If not, you can either charge it more slowly overnight, use one of the many MANY EV quick charging stations already available in even small and medium-sized towns, and you'll be fine.
>>69832783
>You faggots are beyond saving
If there was an undisputed need to reduce Co2 output globally, how would you do it?
>inb4 "But nothing like that could ever happen so it doesn't matter lel"
>>69832658
It's all bullshit, we're in a cooling trend and have been for years now.
The sea level rise never happened either, look at the Royal Observatory's standard sea level gauge installed over four hundred years ago.
nuclear - solution to energy independene, global warming, overpopulation, etc.
Ok. Seriously guys. How the hell can we convince the American public that nuclear fission reactors, especially next gen breeder reactors, are the only way to solve half a dozen incredibly pressing challenges to the continuation of modern society?
I see several points that we would need to convince people of.
- Conventional nuclear fission plants are safe. Ex: More people have died choking on sliced bread than have died from radiation poisoning from nuclear power plants.
- Radiation waste is manageable, especially for next gen breeder reactors.
- Solar and wind cannot cut it. The problems of intermittency and the expense of energy storage make solar and wind completely impractical compared to nuclear.
- We cannot wait for new as-of-yet undeveloped technologies. We need to go with what works now. That means building out a shitton of conventional plants, such as the AP-1000, concurrent with R&D into breeders like IFR and LFTR, followed by extensive rollout of LFTR.
PS: Continue recent experimental research from the navy to create hydrocarbon liquid fuel from CO2 dissolved in seawater, and H2 from splitting sea water, powered by nuclear electricity. Or research into boron powered cars. Or even more experimental stuff.
How do we do it /pol/? How do we save the world? The only thing stopping us is the fear and ignorance of the American public. Fuck we're screwed.
>>69833048
>cooling trend
Kay, chief, whatever you say.
>>69821042
Sailboats use the energy at night harvested during the day from their panels via a battery bank. Really not that difficult.
>>69832941
CO2 isn't much of a danger, sulfur and other emissions are.
Strong property laws could protect against that too
>if you release this into the environment and it affects my property I will sue
>>69833048
>It's all bullshit, we're in a cooling trend and have been for years now.
Amazing. Where's the data showing this if it's true?
>look at the Royal Observatory's standard sea level gauge installed over four hundred years ago.
Link to the data? I found the website, but I can only find data from the last 30 days.
I found this while searching for the right data. Looking to see this disputed..
>>69833192
No idea - we've been trying to convince people of the safety, reliability, and efficiency of nuclear power for 50 years.
What can we say - Greenpeace has better PR. Christ, we've got a basically-finished central waste depository at Yucca Mountain just waiting to store waste, and we can't open the doors because the hippies and Harry Reid managed to scare the bejeezus out of people
>>69833325
Nice try global warming shill.
We know all about the rigged 'gridding' that the global warming nutbag data riggers use.
>Nuclear power plants are not the norm because people blow the fuck up when something goes on despite them being far safer than alternates.
>>69832783
This logic means you should stop all R&D worlwide.
Scaling a technology is as important as inventing it. Electric is still a drop in the bucket and subsidizing it to help it scale is very important.
So yes, it is worth subsidizing a minor % of cars and minor, less than 1%, of electric generation to help get scale going.
Scaling production decreases costs as much as new inventions. This is why it's important, because it makes it brings it to cost efficient status faster.
Paying more on 1% of a product, to eventually save much more in the long run is good.
It's a good investment. You have to think long-term to invest in anything from infrastructure to education.
It becomes cost efficient if you think in a bigger picture view than the returns on the singular car purchase.
>>69833565
In fairness... nuclear power blew it. They said first gen reactors were safe as fuck and had plenty of huge fucks ups. Hard to convince the public second time around when you fucked up the first time. "no no, this time they really are actually safe! no no, we mean it!"
>>69833192
SOLAR also uses massive amounts of rare earth metals and are toxic as fuck to produce. its less toxic to build a nuke plant. we could also just use the energy around the world generated form the tides.
>>69833647
If it is good it will scale regardless, it doesn't fucking matter.
Global cooling is real, even that asshole Mann's data reveals it.
At least before he massages the data. Hokey stick idiots BTFO.
